Patriot League Pick 'Em - Week 4

[DFW HOYA]

The first league game of the season awaits the winless Colgate Red Raiders versus Holy Cross. Elsewhere in PL land:

Georgetown (2-1) at Columbia, 12:30 pm
Stonehill (2-1) at Fordham (2-1), 1:00
Lehigh (1-2) at Dartmouth (0-1), 1:30
Colgate (0-3) at Holy Cross (2-1), 2:00
Pennsylvania (1-0) at Bucknell (1-1), 3:00
Monmouth (1-2) at Lafayette (2-1), 3:30

[bonarae]

Georgetown
Fordham
Lehigh
Holy Cross
Penn
Monmouth

[Pard4Life]

This is weird - normally I feel moribund and fatalistic about the Pards - but I honestly believe we have a shot and hope for a winning season. I am feeling this vibe from the team - they are committed and driven. Have no insight into Monmouth or what they can do, but what I know about us is if we are prepared and focused, we will be there in the end.

[Wolffan]

Georgetown
Fordham
Dartmouth
Holy Cross 49-14
Pennsylvania
Monmouth

[MUHAWKS]

This is weird - normally I feel moribund and fatalistic about the Pards - but I honestly believe we have a shot and hope for a winning season. I am feeling this vibe from the team - they are committed and driven. Have no insight into Monmouth or what they can do, but what I know about us is if we are prepared and focused, we will be there in the end.

I will fill you in a bit - We are capable of being a good team, but are wildly inconsistent. Before the season even started I circled this game as a tough one. The fact that we lost last week in a game we were in control of could work two ways- 1. We know this is a must win and will rally the troops and come out and play complete and good, aggressive football. If we do that you will have a tough time beating us but agree it will be a game late regardless. Or 2. if you guys come out to a hot start we may pack it in and our season would effectively end in Easton. Our goal to start the year was nothing short of the playoffs which requires 8 wins in the CAA. We lost out first game to FBS FAU 42-20 and showed some signs of life and talent. In week 2 we played a closer than score indicated game against Towson (we won 42-23) although I will say our D pretty much shut them down. Last week we jumped out on what I think is a good Campbell team (perhaps a team that could be very good) and were up 23-7 with the ball. We lost 45-1 although their last score was semi garbage ish- Game was tied 31-31 with 8 minutes left. We self destructed and although much of it was Campbell being good, a lot of it was just not being mentally tough. Their enormous O lie (6-5 330 average) wore our defense down in the 2nd half and our Offense faltered so we could not go blow for blow.

Here is the good thig for you guys and bad for us- we played almost the entire game without our best CB but he should be back Saturday. However, we lost a starting OL and starting LB both 5th year guys who are good. They will def be out, prob for the year. and All American RB Jaden Shirden left the game late as well. Obviously if he does not play that is huge for you.

Of note but I assume you know this- Your OC was a coach for us for many years.

Basically, if Shirden plays, our offense has the ability to be very good. But so far we have under achieved. Our defense last year was a dumpster fire and although improved, did not look good in the 2nd half Saturday. I always expected this to be a game b/cyou guys have a great D, a lively home field atmosphere and seem to be building confidence. So you may be playing a team that beat #10 ranked Nova last year, went to 7 OT's with a URI team that just missed the post season, lost to playoff team Fordham by a FG and was tied with a team late who gave # 4 W&M a tough game who knows their season is on the line and are going to be rejuvenated. Or you may be playing a team who could be mentally deflated if you start strong and make some plays. Haha, so I did not give you much but we are as inconsistent as they come and just as close to being a 7-8 win playoff team as we are from being a 3-8 after thought.

[The Cats]

Georgetown (2-1) at Columbia, 12:30 pm
Stonehill (2-1) at Fordham (2-1), 1:00
Lehigh (1-2) at Dartmouth (0-1), 1:30
Colgate (0-3) at Holy Cross (2-1), 2:00
Pennsylvania (1-0) at Bucknell (1-1), 3:00
Monmouth (1-2) at Lafayette (2-1), 3:30

[Pards Rule]

This is weird - normally I feel moribund and fatalistic about the Pards - but I honestly believe we have a shot and hope for a winning season. I am feeling this vibe from the team - they are committed and driven. Have no insight into Monmouth or what they can do, but what I know about us is if we are prepared and focused, we will be there in the end.

P4L, I agree! I was cheering team going out to the busses with my leopard (sans trashbag as rain had stopped lol) and they were FOCUSED!!! Found out yesterday second home owner (he doesnt rent it) neighbor went to school with Troxell and they both played D! Went to Trox house for lunch made by his mom.

[ngineer]

Hoyas take a bite of the Big Apple, 21-14

Stonehill runs into rocks. Rams coast, 38-10

Crusaders slam the gate off its hinges, 45-14

Quackers and Bison in a defensive struggle, in Lewisburg. Bison ends up in the “pen”, by Penn, 17-9

Leotards showing some moxie and Hawks appear banged up. Laughyette , 31-24

Lehigh paid the price for sleepwalking the first quarter against Cornell in 3 point loss. I am expecting Cahill to get their attention. Has already been mixing in a number of freshmen which should give some upperclassmen more motivation. I expect more aggressive play calling early. Mountain Hawks fly to victory with new “Air Lehigh”, 27-20.

[gravalico]

Georgetown back on track over Columbia

Fordham over Stonehill

Dartmouth over Lehigh

HC big over Colgate

Penn over Bucknell

Lafayette keeps the leopard spotted train rolling over Monmouth. Go Pards!

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[crusader11]

The league went 2-3 last week.

We expected Colgate to lose to Penn.

We though Georgetown should beat Stonehill after convincing wins over Marist and Sacred Heart.

We may have had wishful thinking that Lehigh would beat Cornell.

4-1 would have been gravy, but I think 3-2 would have been fine. 2-3 is disappointing.

Through three weeks, the PL is 10-10.

5-1 NEC
1-0 SoCon
1-0 PFL
2-2 Ivy
1-4 FBS
0-3 CAA

[The Boogie Down]

4-1 would have been gravy, but I think 3-2 would have been fine. 2-3 is disappointing.

Through three weeks, the PL is 10-10.

5-1 NEC
1-0 SoCon
1-0 PFL
2-2 Ivy
1-4 FBS
0-3 CAA

Thanks for the record update! Funny how coming off a disappointing week has led to few posts. Meanwhile the surprisingly strong week before that has a thread which is still active. (My own recent post included)

Anyways, no game by game predictions here, but after a good week and a bad one, I'm expecting mixed results for this Saturday.

[kdinva]

Georgetown 24; Columbia, 30
Stonehill 15; Fordham 35
Lehigh 20; Dartmouth 28
Colgate 12; Holy Cross 47
Pennsylvania 28; Bucknell 14
Monmouth 27; Lafayette 13

[Pards Rule]

What will weather do. Noreaster heading up coast. Saturdays high will be 58 in Easton with periods of rain, potential for heavy rain. Rain at 85% chance. Winds NE at 17 mph. I would guess that stadiums nearer coast, worse

- - - Updated - - -

MUHawks sent you DM sir

[MUHAWKS]

What will weather do. Noreaster heading up coast. Saturdays high will be 58 in Easton with periods of rain, potential for heavy rain. Rain at 85% chance. Winds NE at 17 mph. I would guess that stadiums nearer coast, worse

- - - Updated - - -

MUHawks sent you DM sir


Yo-- I do not see a DM brother! whats up?

[RichH2]

Some wishful thinking 😁
Hoyas over Lions
Fordham big over Stonehill
Cross scores at will and often
Bucknell edges Penn. Slugfest.
Monmouth over Pards. Could be a toss-up
Lehigh over Dartmouth. If 2nd half Lehigh starts this game.

[Pards Rule]

Yo-- I do not see a DM brother! whats up?


Are u going to game?

[MUHAWKS]

Are u going to game?

usually I would ay 100%- I am 90% going. Have had a virus (not covid) that has wreaked havoc on me--If I feel even just average I will be there, but there were a couple days that if I felt like that I could not drive safely, but yes I plan on it..

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Georgetown 27 Columbia 20
Fordham 45 Stonehill 24
Holy Cross 52 Colgate 17
Penn 24 Bucknell 14
Lafayette 30 Monmouth 20 - MU has had the PL's number for the most part in recent years. With that said, I "like" (Lehigh fan here) where the 'Pards are headed...
Lehigh 21 Dartmouth 17 - Maybe a slight homer call but this figures to be another 60 minute affair. Lehigh simply needs to do the little things better. First and foremost 60 minutes of consistent effort. I'm not going to get greedy and say 60 minutes of execution...lol

[crusader11]

Nearing 36 hours until kickoff on Saturday and we are still on page two.

Tells me everything I need to know about the state of this league.

We need the Ls and Colgate to find their way.

I think Lafayette might have something going on. Lehigh remains to be seen. Colgate has lost their way.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Nearing 36 hours until kickoff on Saturday and we are still on page two.

Tells me everything I need to know about the state of this league.

We need the Ls and Colgate to find their way.

I think Lafayette might have something going on. Lehigh remains to be seen. Colgate has lost their way.

The Big Sky and MVFC weekly thread are also "only" on page 2. Traffic has been light on the AGS pick'em too. Just seems to be a sleepy week....

[Leopard Loyalist]

Holy Cross and Fordham would seem to be the only sure picks this week.

Georgetown (2-1) at Columbia, 12:30 pm
Stonehill (2-1) at Fordham (2-1), 1:00
Lehigh (1-2) at Dartmouth (0-1), 1:30
Colgate (0-3) at Holy Cross (2-1), 2:00
Pennsylvania (1-0) at Bucknell (1-1), 3:00
Monmouth (1-2) at Lafayette (2-1), 3:30

[Go...gate]

Georgetown 20, Columbia 17

Fordham 38, Stonehill 21

Dartmouth 27, Lehigh 20

Holy Cross 49, Colgate 14

Penn 23, Bucknell 16

Lafayette 28, Monmouth 24

Bonus pick: Princeton 26, Bryant 23

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

One thing I will be watching this week is offensive production by teams not named Crusaders or Rams. Can Bucknell, Georgetown, Lehigh or Lafayette break the 30 point barrier? I think Lafayette has the best chance given the relative weakness of the Beach Hawk's defense. Not sure I'm confident in the others. Granted, weather might be a factor although Saturday afternoon still looks "ok" for much of the Northeast.

[Pards Rule]

One thing I will be watching this week is offensive production by teams not named Crusaders or Rams. Can Bucknell, Georgetown, Lehigh or Lafayette break the 30 point barrier? I think Lafayette has the best chance given the relative weakness of the Beach Hawk's defense. Not sure I'm confident in the others. Granted, weather might be a factor although Saturday afternoon still looks "ok" for much of the Northeast.

It will be better in Easton than West Long Branch for sure. Starting here on Long Beach Island NJ this evening. Gravlico Im ready!

[Ivytalk]

Georgetown back on track over Columbia

Fordham over Stonehill

Dartmouth over Lehigh

HC big over Colgate

Penn over Bucknell

Lafayette keeps the leopard spotted train rolling over Monmouth. Go Pards!

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk
I agree with these picks. Dartmouth wins one for Buddy on emotional day.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I came across as I was putting together a lit review for a project I am working on. This should be free/easy to access....

Declining the Big East: A Case Study of the College of the Holy Cross. (2019)
https://journals.ku.edu/jams/article/view/7583/11186

[Pard4Life]

I came across as I was putting together a lit review for a project I am working on. This should be free/easy to access....

Declining the Big East: A Case Study of the College of the Holy Cross. (2019)
https://journals.ku.edu/jams/article/view/7583/11186

Sader would be most pleased that this topic garnered 35 pages in an academic journal... only in the Patriot League xrotatehx

[Pard4Life]

What do the Lehigh people think of the new coach so far? Hope or not clear enough to determine yet?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

What do the Lehigh people think of the new coach so far? Hope or not clear enough to determine yet?

Keep Michalik's commitment and he'll get no less than a B- this year. The kid is THAT good!

Overall, I think Cahill has done a solid job through 3 games minus Lehigh's first quarter last week. The offense seems to be a bit better; it's clearly not "good" but it's not horrific either. Defensively, outside of the big plays I think it's been quite good. There's a lot of speed/athleticism in the front 7 and the tackling has been good. Special teams seems to be significantly improved. Dartmouth is very much a winnable game.....

I still maintain that Lehigh will be a "contender" in the league race next year if Hunt and Cahill get the offense going. Hunt has to show some imagination. He's one piece I still have questions about.

[Pards Rule]

Whats the line Pards vs Monmouth?

[NY Crusader 2010]

Columbia 21 Georgetown 19
Fordham 52 Stonehill 21
Dartmouth 20 Lehigh 12
Penn 23 Bucknell 17
Monmouth 28 Lafayette 24
Holy Cross 38 Colgate 16

[Pards Rule]

Public betting split 50/50 Pards vs Hawks

[Colgate TD]

This aint your grandfather's Holy Cross.

G'town
Fordham
Lehigh
Penn
Lafayette
Holy Cross 21 Colgate 17

[gravalico]

This aint your grandfather's Holy Cross.

G'town
Fordham
Lehigh
Penn
Lafayette
Holy Cross 21 Colgate 17Actually this is pretty close to our grandfather's HC.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

[DFW HOYA]

Hoyas have (-18) yards after the 1st quarter, trail 6-0.

[Pards Rule]

Rain and 15 mph winds from NW in Easton PA for 330 PM kickoff. Watching it here on LBI

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh with a 90+ yard scoop and score defensive TD!

Lehigh 7 Dartmouth 0 8:59 1Q

[Southsider]

Dartmouth drove deep into LU territory, the fumbled and LU DB scooped and ran for TD!

[Southsider]

Dartmouth hammering LU D. Not good!!!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Dartmouth hammering LU D. Not good!!!

They've literally been on the field the entire quarter. The 3rd and 6 conversion was tough....

TD Big Green!

7-7 3:30 1Q

[Southsider]

D is like soft butter…..

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

D is like soft butter…..

Some bad luck. Lehigh just had a punt return for a TD reversed because of running into the punter on a bobbled snap. Dartmouth then converts a 4th and 2....

[Southsider]

What a bull**** call on punt! HOMER REF!

[Lehigh'98]

That was a bad call by ref on the running into K penalty. Ball was tipped and he barely touched him.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

What a bull**** call on punt! HOMER REF!

Seemed pretty ridiculous!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Then Dartmouth doinks their FG and it goes through. That was some BS on that drive...

Dartmouth 10 Lehigh 7 13:00 2Q

Defense is battling their butts off. Offense has to give them a break!

[LUHawker]

What a bull**** call on punt! HOMER REF!
Total BS call. Defender got a piece of the ball.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh on the move! Finish this drive with a TD!

[Pards Rule]

Total BS call. Defender got a piece of the ball.

Sounds like the three terrible home cook calls we took in Durham. Even Duke fans said we were hosed!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Drive stalls inside the Big Green 10. Mountain Hawks settle for a chip shot FG...

10-10 7:00 2Q

[Southsider]

Nice drive LU! 10-10

[ngineer]

Hopefully the D can keep tied. LU receives to 2nd half.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate 7 Holy Cross 7 1:37 1Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Hopefully the D can keep tied. LU receives to 2nd half.

Dartmouth leads TOP 19:54 to 9:01. Lehigh needs to close that gap....

[Southsider]

LU D is poor. There is no sugar coating things! Getting beat up every week.

[LUHawker]

Lehigh’s D-line gets no pressure.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Absolutely perfect TD pass for Dartmouth....ugh...

Big Green 17-0 0:35 2Q

[Pards Rule]

Absolutely perfect TD pass for Dartmouth....ugh...

Big Green 17-0 0:35 2Q

You meant 17-10

[Southsider]

LU offense still pretty vanilla. Looks no different than the the last few years. No TE, no multiple backs/formations. I expected so much more. Very disappointed ☹️

[ngineer]

Need to get more aggressive on D with pressure on QB. He’s too comfortable. Offense seems to have gotten started in second quarter. Very important to start the half with a good drive and shift momentum.

[Southsider]

Need to get more aggressive on D with pressure on QB. He’s too comfortable. Offense seems to have gotten started in second quarter. Very important to start the half with a good drive and shift momentum.

O got going, then they changed personnel. Why?

[Southsider]

Hunt was a bad hire!!! This O is disgusting!

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown 0
Columbia 30
End 3rd

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Cornell beat Yale 23-21

Lehigh's offense has to do something! The defense continues to hang in there all things considered.....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Silbor has to find a way to complete that pass! Offense has zero big play ability. Just nothing there....

[ngineer]

LU just missed huge scoring opportunity with wide open WR and he turned in and pass thrown out. Can’t miss opportunities like that ..

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Fordham 38 Stonehill 0 End 3Q
Holy Cross 26 Colgate 7 0:26 2Q

[ngineer]

Big interception by Lassiter! But ball on own 5

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

LU just missed huge scoring opportunity with wide open WR and he turned in and pass thrown out. Can’t miss opportunities like that ..

And the defense just got an INT! The defense is battling their butts off! Offense is abysmal...

Silbor fumbles it right back with about 30 yards of better field position....

[ngineer]

Silbor fumbles after nice 15!yard run and D recovers!

[Southsider]

And the defense just got an INT! The defense is battling their butts off! Offense is abysmal...

Silbor isn’t the guy! This performance is putrid !

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

TD Dartmouth after a super short field. That likely is the nail in the coffin given Lehigh's inept offense. Perri should get a shot. Silbor just isn't developing...

Dartmouth 24-10 2:58 3Q

[Southsider]

Muhlenberg could beat these guys. 2 wins is a stretch at this point. No sense of urgency by anyone on O

[Southsider]

ST SUCK as well. I am furious. No progress whatsoever this year. Tired of the excuses.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Dartmouth with a blocked punt. Defense threw in the towel/quit on that 30 yard TD drive. Not good...

Big Green 31 Lehigh 10 0:52 3Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Penn 7 Bucknell 0 6:54 1Q
Monmouth 3 Lafayette 0 8:05 1Q

[Southsider]

This team has been the walking wounded for many years. You really have to question the desire to do whatever it takes. Nobody suffers more injuries in the PL than LU. Soft players?

[Lehigh'98]

Hate to say it, but Lafayette looks pretty good. QB play is much improved.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lafayette 14 Monmouth 3 8:28 2Q

[Southsider]

Go Pards! They have HEART & DESIRE!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Holy Cross 47 Colgate 7 13:02 4Q
Penn 10 Bucknell Half

Fordham and Holy Cross are the only teams in the PL with any semblance of a legit, strike fear in you offense. Lafayette's is the third best unit and it is slightly below average at best....

[Southsider]

Team & Coached should be made to walk back to Bethlehem!

[CHIP72]

I'm not watching or listening to the game, but it looks like Lafayette might be legitimate this season.

[CHIP72]

Team & Coached should be made to walk back to Bethlehem!

Hey, at least Lehigh wasn't beaten by a girl! (My undergraduate alma mater, Juniata, lost to Shenandoah today, who played Haley Van Voorhis on a few plays today. Van Voorhis is the first female non-kicker to play in a college football game ever. Kudos to Haley Van Voorhis for a truly notable accomplishment! No kudos to Juniata for sucking ever since I started going to school there...30+ years ago.)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'm not watching or listening to the game, but it looks like Lafayette might be legitimate this season.

They are definitely the third wheel of sorts. I could see them shocking either Fordham or Holy Cross. If nothing else, the 'Pards have made obvious strides in year two under Troxell. At this point, that is what Lehigh needs to bank on. Although, personally, I wouldn't be upset if Hunt isn't there to see it...lol

[CHIP72]

They are definitely the third wheel of sorts. I could see them shocking either Fordham or Holy Cross. If nothing else, the 'Pards have made obvious strides in year two under Troxell. At this point, that is what Lehigh needs to bank on. Although, personally, I wouldn't be upset if Hunt isn't there to see it...lol

Lehigh should have hired Kutztown head coach Jim Clements this past offseason...

(Speaking of Kutztown, they posted an impressive 20-3 win at Shepherd today.)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh should have hired Kutztown head coach Jim Clements this past offseason...

(Speaking of Kutztown, they posted an impressive 20-3 win at Shepherd today.)

He was my top choice! Excellent coach!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Penn 30 Bucknell 7 End 3Q

Thankfully for the residents of Central PA Penn State and Iowa kickoff in about 2 hours. This is like a tree falling in the woods....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lafayette 28 Monmouth 14 12:44 4Q

[RichH2]

Lehigh should have hired Kutztown head coach Jim Clements this past offseason...

(Speaking of Kutztown, they posted an impressive 20-3 win at Shepherd today.)

Absolutely. .My choice before Gilmore. ,and after him.

[Southsider]

Lehigh should have hired Kutztown head coach Jim Clements this past offseason...

(Speaking of Kutztown, they posted an impressive 20-3 win at Shepherd today.)

and that’s the issue. Poor choices for years. In addition to constantly trying to be Ivy Lite. They have lost the hunger, while Lafayette has found it. I am beyond furious after today. Too bad many associated with LU don’t feel the same. And therein lies the problem.

- - - Updated - - -


Lehigh should have hired Kutztown head coach Jim Clements this past offseason...

(Speaking of Kutztown, they posted an impressive 20-3 win at Shepherd today.)

and that’s the issue. Poor choices for years. In addition to constantly trying to be Ivy Lite. They have lost the hunger, while Lafayette has found it. I am beyond furious after today. Too bad many associated with LU don’t feel the same. And therein lies the problem.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Penn 30 Bucknell 7 End 3Q

Thankfully for the residents of Central PA Penn State and Iowa kickoff in about 2 hours. This is like a tree falling in the woods....

The White Out is overrated. PSU has a career losing record with it.

[Pards Rule]

FINAL PARDS 28 MONMOUTH 20...When was last time Pards had three OOC wins in a season?

[Southsider]

Great job Pards! D looked great. QB also very efficient. The team has CONFIDENCE!

[Pards Rule]

Great job Pards! D looked great. QB also very efficient. The team has CONFIDENCE!

Yes sir! Thanks! D had 7 sacks today! Outstanding!

[DFW HOYA]

Your PL rankings after week 4:

1. Holy Cross: Untouched at this point
2. Fordham: Won't be tested until mid-October.
3. Lafayette: Signs of hope.
4. Lehigh: Signs of life.
5. Bucknell: There's a cap on this team and 5th is about it.
6. Colgate: The best 0-4 team in the East.
7. Georgetown: The talent gap is taking its toll.

[crusader11]

I disagree Lehigh has shown signs of life. New coaches, but I’m not really seeing anything exciting.

[ngineer]

The Big Sky and MVFC weekly thread are also "only" on page 2. Traffic has been light on the AGS pick'em too. Just seems to be a sleepy week....

At the same time, I think "demographics" are starting to come into play around here. The 'younger generation' does not seem frequent "message boards", and I sense a 'greying" of the AGS family, which I find disappointing, but not surprising. I addition, the latest generation of college grads are not as 'tuned in' to their schools' athletics . Not the sole reason, but a contributing factor.

[gravalico]

Lafayette looked very good today. Still not perfect but pretty damn solid going into league play. The sophomore QB has shown great situational awareness and is enough of a mobile threat to keep defenses on their toes. The O Line has vascilated between very good and dominant through 4 games now. They have the best running back in the league (statistically anyway) The Defense! Just awesome. They had their QB either on his horse or on the ground every time. They kept the best rusher in fcs football last year under a hundred yards until they knocked him out of the game all together. The only chinc in the armor remains special teams which is a large chinc indeed. They have to tighten that team up. It made the game way more exciting than it should have been today.

Keep in mind, Monmouth started 22 seniors or 5th years today. Lafayette started 10 freshman! And some of those freshman are making actual marks...particularly on the defensive line. This team will look largely the same for the next two years to three years.

And while, in theory, I'm supposed to root for PL teams playing out of conference teams I can't lie...its awesome to bathe in the tears of the Lehigh faithful. We've been on the other side for so long (well...not against Lehigh thankfully) that I'm absolutely sorry I'm not sorry. Go Pards!

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

[crusader11]

Great win, Lafayette!

Caught the second half.

Troxell is making me believe.

[CHIP72]

At the same time, I think "demographics" are starting to come into play around here. The 'younger generation' does not seem frequent "message boards", and I sense a 'greying" of the AGS family, which I find disappointing, but not surprising. I addition, the latest generation of college grads are not as 'tuned in' to their schools' athletics . Not the sole reason, but a contributing factor.

A lot of college football fans are on Reddit, though the FCS subreddit has relatively low activity, lower than AGS. But Reddit has replaced subject-specific message boards for many people.

[ngineer]

I think there is too much impatience among the Lehigh faithful. Yes, we, including me, are frustrated over how our program fell apart over the past six years. And the circumstances that caused need not be rehashed, but here we are. Not as bad as the 'desert years' of 1963-69, but a good second. It took Fred Dunlap six years, many with only none or one win...and an infamous tie with Lafayette in the Centennial Game of The Rivalry, 6-6, to finally turn the ship around. It's been over 50 years before we experienced this losing skein. Most acknowledged that patience was going to be needed. The talent level is quite thin and needs to be rebuilt. A Patriot League school, in today's environment cannot do an immediate turnaround by taking a shopping spree on the "portal".

Today's game was step backward from the nice hard fought win at Merrimack and the strong comeback we had against Cornell (noting Cornell beat Yale today). We suffered a couple horrid referee calls today that would have made the score closer, but did not change the outcome. Today, the defense was run ragged because the offense was not able to sustain drives and give the D a breather. I thought the Dartmouth D was much better than Cornell's as they clamped down on the run game and pressured the QBs. I am a bit frustrated with the 'conservative' offense at this point, but it may be because the comfort level of the coaches in 'opening up' the offense hasn't been met. I was hoping for more running room for our backs from our OL. They are a bit undersized, and missing the center, but that deficiency allows the opposing D to be more aggressive on the pass rush. It also appears that Garcia is not as quick as last year; hence the spotlight being shifted to frosh Yoder out of Tampa, who looks like a great find. Seems to be able to zip through a small opening that others cannot.

Next week's game with Monmouth should be interesting in light of how Lafayette did today. Having played the game, and grown up with a coach, I've learned that there is a lot that goes into a game that results in a win or a loss. Some you can control, and some you cannot. But, regardless, I am willing to give Cahill some leash these first couple years as he tries to restock the roster and reclaim the level that we want to be. Pre season, I thought a four win season was reasonable, and I still believe that to be the case. With a lucky bounce or two, maybe five. The main thing is to be playing better in November and getting a nice incoming class committed. If achieved, that will start the rebuild with a good momentum.

[ngineer]

A lot of college football fans are on Reddit, though the FCS subreddit has relatively low activity, lower than AGS. But Reddit has replaced subject-specific message boards for many people.

I've heard of "Reddit", but I never read it.....xsmiley_wix

[Wolffan]

Your PL rankings after week 4:

1. Holy Cross: Untouched at this point
2. Fordham: Won't be tested until mid-October.
3. Lafayette: Signs of hope.
4. Lehigh: Signs of life.
5. Bucknell: There's a cap on this team and 5th is about it.
6. Colgate: The best 0-4 team in the East.
7. Georgetown: The talent gap is taking its toll.

Lehigh is better than the bottom three but not sure I see life there.

Fordham - Laffy will battle for second best.

Frosh contributions at HC reflect recent recruiting success. The untold story taking place in Worcester.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh is better than the bottom three but not sure I see life there.

Fordham - Laffy will battle for second best.

Frosh contributions at HC reflect recent recruiting success. The untold story taking place in Worcester.

4-7 all stink! With that acknowledged, I still think Lehigh is the best of that lot. The defense is competitive and there is some individual talent sprinkled about on offense. The staff has got to figure out a way to create some explosive/big plays (how about some creativity?) AS WELL AS establish a true identity. As of now, the offense has been both boring and bad! I have yet to figure out what Cahill and Hunt are trying to establish. Which leads me to Cahill and Hunt. Neither guy is known as an offensive guru despite their former OC titles. I have been VERY outspoken with my belief that Hunt is a below average offensive mind. I was not a fan of the hire from the start. I would have rathered Cahill hired some rumored "hidden gem" from a D3 school in Missouri to re-imagine the entire unit.

The other reality that must be accepted, and I pointed this out from the start, Cahill's background at Yale was quite unique. Which is why he's a quirky coach in his own right given his professional interests in higher education that extend beyond football. He's basically the antithesis of Tom Gilmore.

I still have faith this can get headed in the right direction and the Mountain Hawks can be "viable" next season. Lehigh reminds me a lot of Lafayette last year; "better" but ultimately neutered by an awful offense. Personally, I would not shed a tear if Hunt is one and done. Nagy's resume is sketchy too but I honestly think the defense has been pretty good outside of the big plays. They fought like hell today to keep the game 17-10 at half but the lack of offense finally caused the levee to break.

[Colgate TD]

You think you're incensed? Try being a 'Gate fan right now.

[MUHAWKS]

Lafayette looked very good today. Still not perfect but pretty damn solid going into league play. The sophomore QB has shown great situational awareness and is enough of a mobile threat to keep defenses on their toes. The O Line has vascilated between very good and dominant through 4 games now. They have the best running back in the league (statistically anyway) The Defense! Just awesome. They had their QB either on his horse or on the ground every time. They kept the best rusher in fcs football last year under a hundred yards until they knocked him out of the game all together. The only chinc in the armor remains special teams which is a large chinc indeed. They have to tighten that team up. It made the game way more exciting than it should have been today.

Keep in mind, Monmouth started 22 seniors or 5th years today. Lafayette started 10 freshman! And some of those freshman are making actual marks...particularly on the defensive line. This team will look largely the same for the next two years to three years.

And while, in theory, I'm supposed to root for PL teams playing out of conference teams I can't lie...its awesome to bathe in the tears of the Lehigh faithful. We've been on the other side for so long (well...not against Lehigh thankfully) that I'm absolutely sorry I'm not sorry. Go Pards!

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First things first- good win, I knew it would be a tough game, but was not expecting the absolute ass kicking we took. I wont even blame the numerous inquires as our 2's need to be ready and were not. But I do have to take issue with what you said are you sure you guys START 10 Freshman?? Are there that many injuries from last week b/c Lafayette's own game notes says they start 2 Freshman and one is the Kicker. If this is indeed true that is insane and the future is bright! And Monmouth does NOT start 22 seniors But close enough, 17 seniors starting (our game notes for whatever reason are inaccurate we had 4 starters out today who were seniors).. anyway a thorough ass kicking and that is the end of our season but I am impressed with Lafayette, congrats and best to you guys rest of way,

[Go...gate]

I came across as I was putting together a lit review for a project I am working on. This should be free/easy to access....

Declining the Big East: A Case Study of the College of the Holy Cross. (2019)
https://journals.ku.edu/jams/article/view/7583/11186

Thank you for sharing this.

[Go...gate]

You think you're incensed? Try being a 'Gate fan right now.

Well said. I am reminded of 1995.

[Go...gate]

Colgate is being outscored by an average of 43.5 to 8 in its first four games.

[gravalico]

First things first- good win, I knew it would be a tough game, but was not expecting the absolute ass kicking we took. I wont even blame the numerous inquires as our 2's need to be ready and were not. But I do have to take issue with what you said are you sure you guys START 10 Freshman?? Are there that many injuries from last week b/c Lafayette's own game notes says they start 2 Freshman and one is the Kicker. If this is indeed true that is insane and the future is bright! And Monmouth does NOT start 22 seniors But close enough, 17 seniors starting (our game notes for whatever reason are inaccurate we had 4 starters out today who were seniors).. anyway a thorough ass kicking and that is the end of our season but I am impressed with Lafayette, congrats and best to you guys rest of way,I'm going by what Trox told me week 1. Totally possible the numbers have changed since then but we were starting 10 freshman at the start of the season. What has remained consistent is we're very young (freshman and sophomores at key positions on both sides of the ball). I think it is safe to say, barring any major surprises, we are at least on schedule and quite possibly ahead of schedule in this rebuild. What is beyond question is this feels different. Haven't felt this optimistic about Lafayette football in a decade.

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[Leopard Loyalist]

What is beyond question is this feels different. Haven't felt this optimistic about Lafayette football in a decade.

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That is exactly right. The whole aura around the team has changed.

[Pards Rule]

First things first- good win, I knew it would be a tough game, but was not expecting the absolute ass kicking we took. I wont even blame the numerous inquires as our 2's need to be ready and were not. But I do have to take issue with what you said are you sure you guys START 10 Freshman?? Are there that many injuries from last week b/c Lafayette's own game notes says they start 2 Freshman and one is the Kicker. If this is indeed true that is insane and the future is bright! And Monmouth does NOT start 22 seniors But close enough, 17 seniors starting (our game notes for whatever reason are inaccurate we had 4 starters out today who were seniors).. anyway a thorough ass kicking and that is the end of our season but I am impressed with Lafayette, congrats and best to you guys rest of way,

Thanks Hawks. I was hopeful for a victory. Monmouth always tough. I think before yesterday we had one win and three losses vs Hawks?

[Pards Rule]

I'm going by what Trox told me week 1. Totally possible the numbers have changed since then but we were starting 10 freshman at the start of the season. What has remained consistent is we're very young (freshman and sophomores at key positions on both sides of the ball). I think it is safe to say, barring any major surprises, we are at least on schedule and quite possibly ahead of schedule in this rebuild. What is beyond question is this feels different. Haven't felt this optimistic about Lafayette football in a decade.

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Trox has this team focused. I saw that when they boarded busses to Duke game.

[Southsider]

I disagree Lehigh has shown signs of life. New coaches, but I’m not really seeing anything exciting.

So true. Defense is respectable, but gets worn down by lack of O. Play calling is abysmal. If I see one more swing pass to a guy 4 yards behind LOS without any blockers I am going to puke. They must have run it 15 times yesterday with zero success. If I was a player who is injured right now, I would look into every conceivable way to RS. Many here talk of good young players who just need time. That may be true, but history at LU tells us many of those same players are no better as Sr.’s then they were as Freshmen. Something has to change, and quickly. I look at the sideline and I just do not see the enthusiasm needed to succeed. After yesterday Monmouth will be a tall task in Jersey.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Thanks Hawks. I was hopeful for a victory. Monmouth always tough. I think before yesterday we had one win and three losses vs Hawks?

Monmouth has OWNED the Patriot League for most of the last 10 years. And they've won a lot of close games.

They're 3-2 against us dating back to 2012, including the 2019 FCS playoff game. We won the most recent matchup, a total bloodbath in West Long Branch in 2021. We're also 0-2 against the Hawks in Worcester.

Monmouth won what seemed like a million games in a row against Lafayette, Lehigh and Fordham. Shortly before that streak, they had actually inquired about joining the PL in football, and evidently but not surprisingly there was no mutual interest. This happened when Monmouth left the NEC for the MAAC and was no longer welcome as a football affiliate. They then joined the Big South.

[Doc QB]

Lehigh should have hired Kutztown head coach Jim Clements this past offseason...

(Speaking of Kutztown, they posted an impressive 20-3 win at Shepherd today.)

He wasn’t even interviewed this time. Or, at least made final 3 for in-person interview.
He may have even said FU, since he was overlooked for Gilmore last time.
Engineer may have the inside scoopage there.

And I don’t buy the offense needs a drive so D can rest.
By that logic, Why doesn’t the opposing O get tired running all over us to the tune of 30plus points?
They looked fresh to me.
And also by that logic, then our O should be the best rested in all of FCS.
They looked over matched. Again.

Dartmouth is not a good team.
We are worse.

Find the damn end zone.
Make a damn stop.

Will take time to show real progress.
The only real excuse is Lehigh’s reality…we don’t have the dudes. Period.

[Southsider]

He wasn’t even interviewed this time. Or, at least made final 3 for in-person interview.
He may have even said FU, since he was overlooked for Gilmore last time.
Engineer may have the inside scoopage there.

And I don’t buy the offense needs a drive so D can rest.
By that logic, Why doesn’t the opposing O get tired running all over us to the tune of 30plus points?
They looked fresh to me.
And also by that logic, then our O should be the best rested in all of FCS.
They looked over matched. Again.

Dartmouth is not a good team.
We are worse.

Find the damn end zone.
Make a damn stop.

Will take time to show real progress.
The only real excuse is Lehigh’s reality…we don’t have the dudes. Period.

Some here do not agree and claim that LU will do things the right way! I say use the portal! If a guy meets the academic standards LU demands, then why not consider the person? If LU is not willing to do what it takes, within reason, then they are playing at the wrong level!

[Wolffan]

He wasn’t even interviewed this time. Or, at least made final 3 for in-person interview.
He may have even said FU, since he was overlooked for Gilmore last time.
Engineer may have the inside scoopage there.

And I don’t buy the offense needs a drive so D can rest.
By that logic, Why doesn’t the opposing O get tired running all over us to the tune of 30plus points?
They looked fresh to me.
And also by that logic, then our O should be the best rested in all of FCS.
They looked over matched. Again.

Dartmouth is not a good team.
We are worse.

Find the damn end zone.
Make a damn stop.

Will take time to show real progress.
The only real excuse is Lehigh’s reality…we don’t have the dudes. Period.
I know I mentioned this before but Holy Cross fans gradually realized Gilmore was a poor recruiter his last few years. (Some never realized it.) I suspect he was the same at Lehigh. I'd be shocked if you have the dudes. Maybe in a couple of years.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I know I mentioned this before but Holy Cross fans gradually realized Gilmore was a poor recruiter his last few years. (Some never realized it.) I suspect he was the same at Lehigh. I'd be shocked if you have the dudes. Maybe in a couple of years.

If that's the case it just shows how great of coach Chesney is and how truly transcended coach can maximize the assets you have in order to compete right away! Chesney's first game at Holy Cross he took a Top 10 Colgate team to the wire then won the league in year two. Assuming Cahill is no where close to Chesney's level as a head coach I wonder what the realistic time frame is?

[ngineer]

He wasn’t even interviewed this time. Or, at least made final 3 for in-person interview.
He may have even said FU, since he was overlooked for Gilmore last time.
Engineer may have the inside scoopage there.

And I don’t buy the offense needs a drive so D can rest.
By that logic, Why doesn’t the opposing O get tired running all over us to the tune of 30plus points?
They looked fresh to me.
And also by that logic, then our O should be the best rested in all of FCS.
They looked over matched. Again.

Dartmouth is not a good team.
We are worse.

Find the damn end zone.
Make a damn stop.

Will take time to show real progress.
The only real excuse is Lehigh’s reality…we don’t have the dudes. Period.

The difference is in the trenches. It is both mental and physical. If a team is able to continually pound the opposing line that is undersized, it will wear thin in the second half. Cahill's after game comments were spot on. After four games, it is time for some people to step up and show more fight. Next week's game at Monmouth should be revealing in more ways than one. Coach has said from day one that the cupboard, while not bare, is missing some significant pieces of china. Winning battles up front is where the war is won or lost most of the time. Per his comments, the "Battle of Monmouth" may be a key game on how the balance of the season will be directed.

[Go...gate]

Monmouth has OWNED the Patriot League for most of the last 10 years. And they've won a lot of close games.

They're 3-2 against us dating back to 2012, including the 2019 FCS playoff game. We won the most recent matchup, a total bloodbath in West Long Branch in 2021. We're also 0-2 against the Hawks in Worcester.

Monmouth won what seemed like a million games in a row against Lafayette, Lehigh and Fordham. Shortly before that streak, they had actually inquired about joining the PL in football, and evidently but not surprisingly there was no mutual interest. This happened when Monmouth left the NEC for the MAAC and was no longer welcome as a football affiliate. They then joined the Big South.

Yes.

[gravalico]

The difference is in the trenches. It is both mental and physical. If a team is able to continually pound the opposing line that is undersized, it will wear thin in the second half. Cahill's after game comments were spot on. After four games, it is time for some people to step up and show more fight. Next week's game at Monmouth should be revealing in more ways than one. Coach has said from day one that the cupboard, while not bare, is missing some significant pieces of china. Winning battles up front is where the war is won or lost most of the time. Per his comments, the "Battle of Monmouth" may be a key game on how the balance of the season will be directed.Sounds very similar to what Coach Troxell was saying last year. He had the added challenge of injuries descimating his o line last year in the first couple of games. He said all year, "we have to get bigger and meaner up front". And of course faster everywhere else. They got bigger and meaner in the off season. It all starts on the O Line, that's for sure.

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[Doc QB]

"The difference is in the trenches. If a team is able to continually pound the opposing line that is undersized, it will wear thin in the second half."
"Coach has said from day one that the cupboard, while not bare, is missing some significant pieces of china."
That reads to me, we dont have the dudes.

Comparisons to Chesney at HC are apples and elephants. He had to fix Gilmore alone.
Cahill has to fix the talent, coaching, and development slide that unfortunately occurred with Andy AND Gilmore changing pretty much none of it.
Will take time, I'm ok waiting on Coach. He has a ton to remedy.

[crusader11]

That reads to me, we dont have the dudes.

Comparisons to Chesney at HC are apples and elephants. He had to fix Gilmore alone.


Gilmore actually left Chesney some pretty decent pieces. Certainly enough that they able to go 4-2 in the PL in Chesney's first season and then 5-1 in year two.

Joe Sterrett hiring Gilmore was an all-time head-scratcher.

It would be really interesting to see how many times a coach has been fired by one school, only to be hired a few years later by a school in that same conference.

[Wolffan]

Gilmore actually left Chesney some pretty decent pieces. Certainly enough that they able to go 4-2 in the PL in Chesney's first season and then 5-1 in year two.

Joe Sterrett hiring Gilmore was an all-time head-scratcher.

It would be really interesting to see how many times a coach has been fired by one school, only to be hired a few years later by a school in that same conference.That's one way to look at it. Another way is noting Holy Cross was 5-6 Chesney's first year (2018) with the talent Gilmore had recruited/accumulated, improved to 7-6 Chesney's second year (2019) , 3-1 with two years of Chesney recruits (including Sluka) in 2020, 10-3 with three years of Chesney recruits (2021), and 12-1 with four years of Chesney recruits (2022).

The continuing roster upgrades from the later Gilmore years is a sight to behold. And continues with the most recent bunch of verbal commits.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

That reads to me, we dont have the dudes.

Comparisons to Chesney at HC are apples and elephants. He had to fix Gilmore alone.
Cahill has to fix the talent, coaching, and development slide that unfortunately occurred with Andy AND Gilmore changing pretty much none of it.
Will take time, I'm ok waiting on Coach. He has a ton to remedy.

Chesney did way more than fix Gilmore! First and foremost he changed Holy Cross football culture! In large part to track record of prior success, his social media presence/overall personality, his ability to engage alums, the Worcester community, win over recruits their families. Holy Cross football was close to morbid when he took over.

I think Cahill can succeed because I still believe Lehigh has all the pieces for a relatively quick turnaround. However, not only is trying to rebuild Lehigh, he's trying to learn how to be a head coach. I'm hoping/was hoping having too former head coaches on the the staff would help with the the learning curve...

[DFW HOYA]

Holy Cross football was close to morbid when he took over.

An exaggeration, perhaps. The last two full seasons at Holy Cross before Chesney? 10-12. Meanwhile, the last two full seasons for these schools:

Bucknell 4-18
Georgetown 4-18
Lehigh 5-14

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

An exaggeration, perhaps. The last two full seasons at Holy Cross before Chesney? 10-12. Meanwhile, the last two full seasons for these schools:

Bucknell 4-18
Georgetown 4-18
Lehigh 5-14

Energy is not always reflected by wins and losses. Temple bball has become close to morbid too despite it's meh W/L....

[crusader11]

That's one way to look at it. Another way is noting Holy Cross was 5-6 Chesney's first year (2018) with the talent Gilmore had recruited/accumulated, improved to 7-6 Chesney's second year (2019) , 3-1 with two years of Chesney recruits (including Sluka) in 2020, 10-3 with three years of Chesney recruits (2021), and 12-1 with four years of Chesney recruits (2022).

The continuing roster upgrades from the later Gilmore years is a sight to behold. And continues with the most recent bunch of verbal commits.

Good points.

What I'm saying is it's not like Chesney was stepping into a Bucknell situation where there is zero history of success and the next coach is largely starting from square one.

Gilmore was a poor game coach, but in the seven games he coached in 2017, HC had enough talent to do the following: lose to UConn 27-20, blow out top ten New Hampshire (fresh off a win at Georgia Southern) 51-26, and lose to Dartmouth 27-26 (Green went 8-2 that season) in remarkable fashion (missed a PAT).

It's a mystery to me why Nate Pine brought Gilmore back after a 4-7 season in 2016, where they failed to show up at Yankee Stadium against Fordham, only to fire him mid-season in 2017.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Good points.

What I'm saying is it's not like Chesney was stepping into a Bucknell situation where there is zero history of success and the next coach is largely starting from square one.

Gilmore was a poor game coach, but in the seven games he coached in 2017, HC had enough talent to do the following: lose to UConn 27-20, blow out top ten New Hampshire (fresh off a win at Georgia Southern) 51-26, and lose to Dartmouth 27-26 (Green went 8-2 that season) in remarkable fashion (missed a PAT).

It's a mystery to me why Nate Pine brought Gilmore back after a 4-7 season in 2016, where they failed to show up at Yankee Stadium against Fordham, only to fire him mid-season in 2017.

I think the only reason Pine kept Gilmore heading into that season was because he attributed the disappointing 2016 season to the loss of senior QB Peter Pujals early in the season. With Pujals and a number of weapons returning on both sides of the ball, there was some reason for optimism heading into 2017. And that season started out very promising only to see the bottom completely fall out. Hard and fast.

Game 1: The competitive game against UConn which was our first FBS opponent in 15 years. Fun fact: we had a larger lead in that game, 20-7 at half, then at any point in any of the FBS games under Chesney.
Game 2: 20-0 road win in Lewisburg. Nothing flashy, but a shutout. Can't complain.
Game 3: Complete domination of a Top 10 UNH team at Fitton. Mabye fittingly, it was probably Gilmore's most impressive win at Holy Cross, and it would turn out to be his last. It also put HC in the FCS Top 25 briefly, for the first time since the pre-season rankings in 2010.
Game 5: Heartbreaking loss on a Friday night to a very good Dartmouth team in Hanover....on a PAT that was blocked IIRC.
Game 6: An absolutely shocking Homecoming loss to a bad Lafayette team, a squad we had handled on the road the year prior with backup QB Geoff Wade starting. This was the beginning of the end.
Game 7: We were dominated in just about every phase against a better, stronger, faster and hungrier Monmouth team in Worcester. 48-36 game, not nearly as close as the score. Maybe only time in history that a team has completed a Hail Mary pass at the conclusion of both halves...and lost. I think Pujals did get the single-game passing record with the help of the two meaningless 50+ yard pass plays.
Game 8: The most dominant 32-0 loss in the history of college football, also the last time I set foot in the Yale Bowl. It was a very hot October day and also the only sporting event that I actually briefly fell asleep watching live in my life, roasting in the sun.

And that was it for Tom Gilmore. Probably a good chance he gets fired at the end of the 2015 season, if not for a 3-1 finish to end the season 6-5 and 3-3 in the PL. And the one loss during that stretch was a game I attended in Bethlehem where we were down 41-10 at half and actually fought hard enough in the 2nd half that for a minute I thought we had a fighting chance to complete what would have been an incredible comeback.

[Wolffan]

I think the only reason Pine kept Gilmore heading into that season was because he attributed the disappointing 2016 season to the loss of senior QB Peter Pujals early in the season. With Pujals and a number of weapons returning on both sides of the ball, there was some reason for optimism heading into 2017. And that season started out very promising only to see the bottom completely fall out. Hard and fast.
One reason for the talented Peter Pujol's rather pedestrian W-L record revolved around the roster. And IMHO can be traced back to Gilmore's recruiting difficulties.

[Franks Tanks]

Gilmore actually left Chesney some pretty decent pieces. Certainly enough that they able to go 4-2 in the PL in Chesney's first season and then 5-1 in year two.

Joe Sterrett hiring Gilmore was an all-time head-scratcher.

It would be really interesting to see how many times a coach has been fired by one school, only to be hired a few years later by a school in that same conference.

Agree. Not to discount the excellent job Chesney has done, but he did inherit a decent roster. The PL was also ripe for the picking when Bob arrived. A team needed to merely be competent to take the league. The bar is significantly higher now to win the league, since Cross has built such as formidable program.

[Pards Rule]

I think the only reason Pine kept Gilmore heading into that season was because he attributed the disappointing 2016 season to the loss of senior QB Peter Pujals early in the season. With Pujals and a number of weapons returning on both sides of the ball, there was some reason for optimism heading into 2017. And that season started out very promising only to see the bottom completely fall out. Hard and fast.

Game 1: The competitive game against UConn which was our first FBS opponent in 15 years. Fun fact: we had a larger lead in that game, 20-7 at half, then at any point in any of the FBS games under Chesney.
Game 2: 20-0 road win in Lewisburg. Nothing flashy, but a shutout. Can't complain.
Game 3: Complete domination of a Top 10 UNH team at Fitton. Mabye fittingly, it was probably Gilmore's most impressive win at Holy Cross, and it would turn out to be his last. It also put HC in the FCS Top 25 briefly, for the first time since the pre-season rankings in 2010.
Game 5: Heartbreaking loss on a Friday night to a very good Dartmouth team in Hanover....on a PAT that was blocked IIRC.
Game 6: An absolutely shocking Homecoming loss to a bad Lafayette team, a squad we had handled on the road the year prior with backup QB Geoff Wade starting. This was the beginning of the end.
Game 7: We were dominated in just about every phase against a better, stronger, faster and hungrier Monmouth team in Worcester. 48-36 game, not nearly as close as the score. Maybe only time in history that a team has completed a Hail Mary pass at the conclusion of both halves...and lost. I think Pujals did get the single-game passing record with the help of the two meaningless 50+ yard pass plays.
Game 8: The most dominant 32-0 loss in the history of college football, also the last time I set foot in the Yale Bowl. It was a very hot October day and also the only sporting event that I actually briefly fell asleep watching live in my life, roasting in the sun.

And that was it for Tom Gilmore. Probably a good chance he gets fired at the end of the 2015 season, if not for a 3-1 finish to end the season 6-5 and 3-3 in the PL. And the one loss during that stretch was a game I attended in Bethlehem where we were down 41-10 at half and actually fought hard enough in the 2nd half that for a minute I thought we had a fighting chance to complete what would have been an incredible comeback.

Wow a win at Worcester> Wait what year was that? 2016 we would be playing in Easton? 2016 Tavani was departed at end of season. Garrett took over in 2017 season.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Wow a win at Worcester> Wait what year was that? 2016 we would be playing in Easton? 2016 Tavani waa departed at end of season. Garrett took over in 2017 season.

2017 -- You guys beat us 10-7 to spoil Homecoming. I remember thinking we were going to destroy you guys because you came in 0-4 and were giving up tons and tons of points. And boom, held us to a touchdown. I think there was a play at some point during the third quarter where Pujals either overthrew our tight end, or he dropped it, on a play that would've been an easy TD and 14-0 lead.

You guys also beat us the next time we met in Worcester, in 2019. And that's also the last time we lost a Patriot League game to this point.

[crusader11]

2017 -- You guys beat us 10-7 to spoil Homecoming. I remember thinking we were going to destroy you guys because you came in 0-4 and were giving up tons and tons of points. And boom, held us to a touchdown. I think there was a play at some point during the third quarter where Pujals either overthrew our tight end, or he dropped it, on a play that would've been an easy TD and 14-0 lead.

You guys also beat us the next time we met in Worcester, in 2019. And that's also the last time we lost a Patriot League game to this point.

There was also the VERY peculiar decision Gilmore made to go for it on 4th and 1 from HC's own 33 yard line late in the 4th quarter. In a game where Lafayette had a total of 220 yards of offense and points were hard to come by, it was unconscionable to take that chance. Of course, HC got stuffed on 4th and 1, Lafayette ran three plays and then kicked a game-winning field goal as time expired.

[Sader87]

There was also the VERY peculiar decision Gilmore made to go for it on 4th and 1 from HC's own 33 yard line late in the 4th quarter. In a game where Lafayette had a total of 220 yards of offense and points were hard to come by, it was unconscionable to take that chance. Of course, HC got stuffed on 4th and 1, Lafayette ran three plays and then kicked a game-winning field goal as time expired.

I really don't miss the last 5 or so years of the Gilmore regime....we were inventing ways to lose games at that point.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I really don't miss the last 5 or so years of the Gilmore regime....we were inventing ways to lose games at that point.

And I don't miss Gilmore's 4 years on South Mountain. For lack of a better term I will refer to him simply as a bozo.....

[NY Crusader 2010]

And I don't miss Gilmore's 4 years on South Mountain. For lack of a better term I will refer to him simply as a bozo.....

That was a horrendous hire for Lehigh. Gilmore clearly proved he was a coach who could clean up a program down in the dumps and bring it back to relevance. He did this at Holy Cross. The Chesney era wouldn't have been possible without the groundwork Gilmore laid IMO. When you're Lehigh, a program I would have considered the "flagship" of the PL at that time and probably will again, you don't hire a guy who was burnt out at another school in-conference, and who clearly had a ceiling.

Lehigh hiring Gilmore would be the equivalent of Texas A&M firing Jimbo Fisher at the end of this season and then Saban retires and Alabama hires him in 2 years.

[Wolffan]

That was a horrendous hire for Lehigh. Gilmore clearly proved he was a coach who could clean up a program down in the dumps and bring it back to relevance. He did this at Holy Cross. The Chesney era wouldn't have been possible without the groundwork Gilmore laid IMO. When you're Lehigh, a program I would have considered the "flagship" of the PL at that time and probably will again, you don't hire a guy who was burnt out at another school in-conference, and who clearly had a ceiling.

Lehigh hiring Gilmore would be the equivalent of Texas A&M firing Jimbo Fisher at the end of this season and then Saban retires and Alabama hires him in 2 years.The coolest thing about the ridiculous decision to hire Gilmore as head coach was that every single person (it seems) predicted a giant failure. And were right. You don't see that too often.

I don't think Gilmore laid the groundwork for Chesneys success. It is true, of course, that Gilmore was more successful (building a strong staff, recruiting good players, and winning) in his earlier years at Holy Cross than in his later years.

[Pards Rule]

There was also the VERY peculiar decision Gilmore made to go for it on 4th and 1 from HC's own 33 yard line late in the 4th quarter. In a game where Lafayette had a total of 220 yards of offense and points were hard to come by, it was unconscionable to take that chance. Of course, HC got stuffed on 4th and 1, Lafayette ran three plays and then kicked a game-winning field goal as time expired.


I remember watching that game on Goleopards.com (before ESPN coup on Patriot League) and thinking what in the world?! Two Garrett wins over HC

[Fordham]

Agree. Not to discount the excellent job Chesney has done, but he did inherit a decent roster. The PL was also ripe for the picking when Bob arrived. A team needed to merely be competent to take the league. The bar is significantly higher now to win the league, since Cross has built such as formidable program.

I see your caveat but still need to push back as what Chesney has done is really remarkable. The closest thing we had was with Moorhead where he took guys Masella couldn’t win with and immediately turned things around. Yes, there was talent there too but that talent would have likely gone winless or otherwise have had a horrific record under another year of Masella. Great coaching can’t be overstated and Chesney is as good as I’ve ever seen in the PL

[Doc QB]

Gilmore actually left Chesney some pretty decent pieces. Certainly enough that they able to go 4-2 in the PL in Chesney's first season and then 5-1 in year two.
So I say again, a comparison of Chesney after Gilmore and Cahill after Gilmore is no comparison at all. Different circumstances replacing an embattled coach (all agree there) but inherited some talent (HC posters all pointed out). Not sure if you guys are agreeing or arguing, but I think you are helping me prove my point that Cahill has a very uphill task at hand.

Cahill has to repair the Gilmore years where little to no traction was gained on the slide that occurred talent wise as Andy was sick. It hurt recruiting several cycles with him still as head man, did not improve in my mind with Gilmore. And as it occurred with Tom at HC, there was a carousel of assistants, particularly offensive line, and a prolonged retention of an OC (Brisson). A healthy Andy and Co recruited Shaf, Bragolone, Gatelin, Pelletier, and some monstrous Oline (Mount Duffy), all-timers with there name in the record books. At the end of those guys, recruiting slumped as Andy's health declined, so his last few years had just Brags and a fading Brad Mayes at QB. Underclassman were not the same.

Proof? We have not had a offensive guy get anywhere near all-time career categories let alone seasonal since 2016. It is very simple in concept...when we won, we had a qb and a wideout or two who are in the record books. Check record season records against when we had a qb or wr or rb rack up 1000s of yards. It correlates, which is obvious and anyone would say the same. What is different now? We dont have those dudes. It ain Silbor at QB, he'd already have the look but does not. It any of the three RBs we play. WR...same. Oline...cant name a five that played together beyond more than a half together for several years. It matters.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

So I say again, a comparison of Chesney after Gilmore and Cahill after Gilmore is no comparison at all. Different circumstances replacing an embattled coach (all agree there) but inherited some talent (HC posters all pointed out). Not sure if you guys are agreeing or arguing, but I think you are helping me prove my point that Cahill has a very uphill task at hand.

Cahill has to repair the Gilmore years where little to no traction was gained on the slide that occurred talent wise as Andy was sick. It hurt recruiting several cycles with him still as head man, did not improve in my mind with Gilmore. And as it occurred with Tom at HC, there was a carousel of assistants, particularly offensive line, and a prolonged retention of an OC (Brisson). A healthy Andy and Co recruited Shaf, Bragolone, Gatelin, Pelletier, and some monstrous Oline (Mount Duffy), all-timers with there name in the record books. At the end of those guys, recruiting slumped as Andy's health declined, so his last few years had just Brags and a fading Brad Mayes at QB. Underclassman were not the same.

Proof? We have not had a offensive guy get anywhere near all-time career categories let alone seasonal since 2016. It is very simple in concept...when we won, we had a qb and a wideout or two who are in the record books. Check record season records against when we had a qb or wr or rb rack up 1000s of yards. It correlates, which is obvious and anyone would say the same. What is different now? We dont have those dudes. It ain Silbor at QB, he'd already have the look but does not. It any of the three RBs we play. WR...same. Oline...cant name a five that played together beyond more than a half together for several years. It matters.

Doc,

This team might be devoid of talent but it is not to the point where they are getting blown out in most games. The Cornell game was 100% there for the taking. The first quarter performance had very little to do with a major talent disparity. Once the game progressed towards half the play was generally even up imo. I thought the defense battled like heck against Dartmouth because there are some dudes on that side of the ball who are making a difference. The Gilmore years were terrible because the team simply could not win. It wasn't because they were getting run off the field week after week. Sure, there were games they were outclassed but that has happened to every coach. Not firing Brisson after a historically inept start to 2021 was an epic fail on Gilmore's part. They simply lacked the attention to detail/3-4 difference makers to get them over the hump at least in the league. That parallels his time at HC.

I look at what Rhule took over at Temple following Steve Addazio (cut from the similar bozo cloth as Gilmore) which was a mess despite the records saying otherwise. The Dazzler did literally nothing to advance the program during his time on North Broad. As it was, it took Rhule until after losses to Idaho and Fordham in September the tide started to turn. By the end of the year Temple was competing with the best teams in the AAC; nearly beat #10 UCF (lost 39-36) who finished 12-1. Then capped the year with a 20 point win over Memphis. Finished the year 2-10 then went 6-6 in 2014 before back-2-back 10 win seasons.

[Lehigh'98]

[QUOTE=Go Lehigh TU owl;3145463]Doc,

This team might be devoid of talent but it is not to the point where they are getting blown out in most games. The Cornell game was 100% there for the taking. The first quarter performance had very little to do with a major talent disparity. Once the game progressed towards half the play was generally even up imo. I thought the defense battled like heck against Dartmouth because there are some dudes on that side of the ball who are making a difference. The Gilmore years were terrible because the team simply could not win. It wasn't because they were getting run off the field week after week. Sure, there were games they were outclassed but that has happened to every coach. Not firing Brisson after a historically inept start to 2021 was an epic fail on Gilmore's part. They simply lacked the attention to detail/3-4 difference makers to get them over the hump at least in the league. That parallels his time at HC.

I look at what Rhule took over at Temple following Steve Addazio (cut from the similar bozo cloth as Gilmore) which was a mess despite the records saying otherwise. The Dazzler did literally nothing to advance the program during his time on North Broad. As it was, it took Rhule until after losses to Idaho and Fordham in September the tide started to turn. By the end of the year Temple was competing with the best teams in the AAC; nearly beat #10 UCF (lost 39-36) who finished 12-1. Then capped the year with a 20 point win over Memphis. Finished the year 2-10 then went 6-6 in 2014 before back-2-back 10 win seasons.[/QUOTE

It’s difficult to understate the poor recruiting/talent the last 7-8 years at Lehigh. They have very few legitimate D1 players on the roster and haven’t for a few seasons now. The games they stay close in are against other teams with lower talent. When they play legit teams, it’s not close.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

[QUOTE=Go Lehigh TU owl;3145463]Doc,

This team might be devoid of talent but it is not to the point where they are getting blown out in most games. The Cornell game was 100% there for the taking. The first quarter performance had very little to do with a major talent disparity. Once the game progressed towards half the play was generally even up imo. I thought the defense battled like heck against Dartmouth because there are some dudes on that side of the ball who are making a difference. The Gilmore years were terrible because the team simply could not win. It wasn't because they were getting run off the field week after week. Sure, there were games they were outclassed but that has happened to every coach. Not firing Brisson after a historically inept start to 2021 was an epic fail on Gilmore's part. They simply lacked the attention to detail/3-4 difference makers to get them over the hump at least in the league. That parallels his time at HC.

I look at what Rhule took over at Temple following Steve Addazio (cut from the similar bozo cloth as Gilmore) which was a mess despite the records saying otherwise. The Dazzler did literally nothing to advance the program during his time on North Broad. As it was, it took Rhule until after losses to Idaho and Fordham in September the tide started to turn. By the end of the year Temple was competing with the best teams in the AAC; nearly beat #10 UCF (lost 39-36) who finished 12-1. Then capped the year with a 20 point win over Memphis. Finished the year 2-10 then went 6-6 in 2014 before back-2-back 10 win seasons.[/QUOTE

It’s difficult to understate the poor recruiting/talent the last 7-8 years at Lehigh. They have very few legitimate D1 players on the roster and haven’t for a few seasons now. The games they stay close in are against other teams with lower talent. When they play legit teams, it’s not close.

Like in the early to mid 90s under Small/Higgins? Delaware, Idaho, Holy Cross, Umass, UNH? I always thought those Lehigh teams still had D1 talent. Hell, the 1993 team won the program's first ever PL Title and lost to Delaware 62-21 and Idaho 77-14. If nothing else, Dave Cecchini, Semptimphelter, NFL'ers Rich Owens and Rabih Addullah graced those rosters...

I forgot to add....is Yale's talent that low? Did it sink like a rock literally overnight to allow Cornell to beat them? Holy Cross to smoke them again? How in the world did Lehigh battle the Big Red for 60 minutes? Beat NEC favorite Merrimack who hung with HC for 3 quarters? Is there a talent deficiency? Yes! But i simply do not not believe in any shape or form it is to the level that some are framing it. The data shows differently. To me this is nothing more than "grace period" seeking but utilizing a simple excuse to appease the masses. Which is to be expected....

[Go...gate]

A capable coach, even with allegedly "below-average" talent, can make an immediate and tremendous impact. Colgate has had that experience three times, under Hal Lahar (1962-67), Fred Dunlap (1976-87) and Dick Biddle (1996-2013), all of whom had prompt turnarounds.

[Wolffan]

A capable coach, even with allegedly "below-average" talent, can make an immediate and tremendous impact. Colgate has had that experience three times, under Hal Lahar (1962-67), Fred Dunlap (1976-87) and Dick Biddle (1996-2013), all of whom had prompt turnarounds. Gotta agree. Chesney turned things around (despite a middling PL roster) a bit his first year in terms of improving W-L. He was haunted by a weak (below average for PL) QB room…but recruited a guy named Sluka. Who won the job as a frosh without knowing the playbook (Covid year and he wasn’t even on campus 1st semester). Now the roster is full of Chesney recruits and roster depth (a bit unrecognized by PL opponents who tend to focus on Sluka) matches up with top FCS programs.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

At the same time, I think "demographics" are starting to come into play around here. The 'younger generation' does not seem frequent "message boards", and I sense a 'greying" of the AGS family, which I find disappointing, but not surprising. I addition, the latest generation of college grads are not as 'tuned in' to their schools' athletics . Not the sole reason, but a contributing factor.

I have been on the AGS board for 10 years.

What has hurt the board and FCS football, in general, is the exodus of iconic programs with devout fan bases.

I enjoy message boards more than Reddit and Twitter.

I believe that the amount of televised games harmed FCS fan bases. Now casual fans can watch any game, whereas in the past, if you wanted to watch a football game, you had limited options, so you attended the local contest.

Looking at the NEC participation on this board, we are down to the CCSU fan and myself.

Throw in, how the current college generation isn't into sports as much as previous ones and it is a sobering picture.

[aceinthehole]

I have been on the AGS board for 10 years.

What has hurt the board and FCS football, in general, is the exodus of iconic programs with devout fan bases.

I enjoy message boards more than Reddit and Twitter.

I believe that the amount of televised games harmed FCS fan bases. Now casual fans can watch any game, whereas in the past, if you wanted to watch a football game, you had limited options, so you attended the local contest.

Looking at the NEC participation on this board, we are down to the CCSU fan and myself.

Throw in, how the current college generation isn't into sports as much as previous ones and it is a sobering picture.

I've been here for 19 years, and CCSU's 2005 win over Colgate was our first win against a "real" I-AA program. Felt like we were finally joining a club.

NEC used to have more participation here, but many of those teams have left for other conferences - Albany, Monmouth, RMU, Bryant.

And as much as it sucks to see some of the bigger and better FCS programs leave (UMass, JMU, etc.), it's not like NEC programs ever got a ton of respect here (and we still don't). I certainly feel less connection to the FCS as a whole and really just follow about my program. I guess it is no different than a Middle Tennessee fan feels about their place FBS - they are just an invisible program and have little in common with Oregon, Wisconsin or West Virginia.

[crusader11]

I think the better NEC programs get respect when it’s warranted.

Sacred Heart has gotten some recognition around these parts recently.

But, by and large, the NEC, PFL, MEAC, and SWAC are afterthoughts. Hell, the PL is an afterthought at times. Fortunately, there’s usually been a team that carries the torch and garners respect most years. Before HC, it was Colgate and then before them it was Lehigh.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Gotta agree. Chesney turned things around (despite a middling PL roster) a bit his first year in terms of improving W-L. He was haunted by a weak (below average for PL) QB room…but recruited a guy named Sluka. Who won the job as a frosh without knowing the playbook (Covid year and he wasn’t even on campus 1st semester). Now the roster is full of Chesney recruits and roster depth (a bit unrecognized by PL opponents who tend to focus on Sluka) matches up with top FCS programs.

One thing that I think points to how incredibly good Chesney is at building a roster and staff....he's a defensive guy but his teams at both Assumption and Holy Cross have ended up developing scary good offenses. I think our offense this year is just as good as Fordham's from last year, and I said that Fordham '22 was the best Patriot League offense I had ever seen, hands down, since I started following the league.

I made this comparison to a classmate the other day. I liken Bob Chensey to Mariano Rivera. When you grew up with Mariano owning the 9th inning for the Yankees, you knew at some point his time as Yankee closer would ultimately end. And you knew that, even with the unlimited resources at the Yankees disposal, that chances are you would never see another Mariano Rivera in your lifetime as a Yankee fan. Appreciateing the Chesney era is kind of like that. We'll make good hires and bad hires over the next handful of decades, but chances are I won't live to see another head football coach at Holy Cross as gifted as Bob Chesney.

I remember thinking during the Gilmore / Dom Randolph run that this was probably at or relatively close to the ceiling for what HC football would be capable of in the modern FCS landscape. Maybe we'd inch a little higher with scholarships, I thought. And Chesney's teams have blown the doors off those expectations. Never in my wildest imagination could I have ever imagined being at a game at Boston College where the Holy Cross Crusaders were a potential 2-minute drill away from beating the Eagles in football. If you asked me in 2008, I would have told you that I'd have been happy just with the chance to have Holy Cross play occasional games against I-A teams.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I've been here for 19 years, and CCSU's 2005 win over Colgate was our first win against a "real" I-AA program. Felt like we were finally joining a club.

NEC used to have more participation here, but many of those teams have left for other conferences - Albany, Monmouth, RMU, Bryant.

And as much as it sucks to see some of the bigger and better FCS programs leave (UMass, JMU, etc.), it's not like NEC programs ever got a ton of respect here (and we still don't). I certainly feel less connection to the FCS as a whole and really just follow about my program. I guess it is no different than a Middle Tennessee fan feels about their place FBS - they are just an invisible program and have little in common with Oregon, Wisconsin or West Virginia.

I always thought CCSU and Albany were two programs that deserved more respect during the mid-2000's. There likely would have been some fun PL-NEC playoff matchups during that time if the NEC had an auto-bid and we had the 24-team field like we have now.

[aceinthehole]

I think the better NEC programs get respect when it’s warranted.

Sacred Heart has gotten some recognition around these parts recently.

But, by and large, the NEC, PFL, MEAC, and SWAC are afterthoughts. Hell, the PL is an afterthought at times. Fortunately, there’s usually been a team that carries the torch and garners respect most years. Before HC, it was Colgate and then before them it was Lehigh.

I'll disagree. SHU won back-to-back NEC Championship (2021 Spring and Fall) and closes losses to UD and HC in the playoffs - and couldn'y get a preseason Top-25 heading into 2022. There is always some excuse from CAA and other snobs. Particularly UD fans. Albany (as a NEC program) and SHU both won at Delaware Stadium and the chatter is how bad the Hens are....

Albany gets far more respects as a "bad" CAA team compared to when they were a "very good" NEC team. Same with Monmouth. The Hawks were a solid NEC team (2003-2006) and were forgotten by the rest of FCS. I expect teh same with Bryant - they haven't won in the NEC, but will get some unearned respect because of conference affiliation. Wagner's and Duquesne's playoff wins are generally regarded as flukes or just beating poor PL or CAA teams.

The Patriot has been awful for a decade and the NEC was the stronger league for many seasons, but there were always more PL posters and nostalgia for the good years. Obviously, HC has really broken out to be a Top-10 team they last few years, but in general PL teams have been over ranked, even when they were winning.

And please don't get me started on the Ivy. Yes, they've had a good team or two each year, but the praise over Princeton and Harvard are a joke. They two teams haven't played a schedule anywhere as difficult as any NEC team over the last decade. Yale certainly gets credit for schedule and results, but the most of the others don't schedule and can't win games outside of the Ivy-PL. How almost any team in this league (forget about 2) get a Top-25 ranking is almost beyond logic.

Again, none of this really matters. It's the FBS equivalent to the P5 and G5. The NEC is like the MAC without the branding. The MEAC and SWAC are generally weaker leagues than NEC, but they have their nitch - branding, fans, and TV exposure. Any school that cares about football (and basketball), leaves this crappy league - SBU, Albany, (UMBC), Monmouth, (Quinnipiac), RMU, Bryant, (Mt. St. Mary's).

I don't lose any sleep over it. Plus, the recent poor results and lack of support out of New Britain indicates Central isn't willing to step it up. Our internal, institutional challenges means I focus on what we are doing and not what everyone else thinks of us or the league. Like I said, I'm following my team closer and the FCS landscape less.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

I've been here for 19 years, and CCSU's 2005 win over Colgate was our first win against a "real" I-AA program. Felt like we were finally joining a club.

NEC used to have more participation here, but many of those teams have left for other conferences - Albany, Monmouth, RMU, Bryant.

And as much as it sucks to see some of the bigger and better FCS programs leave (UMass, JMU, etc.), it's not like NEC programs ever got a ton of respect here (and we still don't). I certainly feel less connection to the FCS as a whole and really just follow about my program. I guess it is no different than a Middle Tennessee fan feels about their place FBS - they are just an invisible program and have little in common with Oregon, Wisconsin or West Virginia.

Well, it is not, as if, the NEC deserves any respect. The conference refuses to increase to 63 scholarships or build decent football stadiums.

Unfortunately, we don't have great fan bases. I wish it was different. How many NEC teams have their own message boards?

[aceinthehole]

Well, it is not, as if, the NEC deserves any respect. The conference refuses to increase to 63 scholarships or build decent football stadiums.

Unfortunately, we don't have great fan bases. I wish it was different. How many NEC teams have their own message boards?

True. The programs are small and lack resources. But we do offer 60+ equivalents and are now getting FBS games (before the PL did it) so that is the only positive.

The fan bases are almost non existent. CCSU is the only program with a fan board (since 2003). RMU did/does have one and Albany also did/does while in the NEC. Wagner, Albany, and Monmouth got dedicated print coverage in local paper. Everything else is like D-II schools because most still are.

Monmouth probably had the most support (outside of Central) across all sports, and QU hockey is well supported - but was it.

But as you know, any school that invested in sports left this crappy league. I only wish we could spend some $$$ and get out of here, but I don't see that on the horizon.