Playoff Eligibility Question

[bluehenbillk]

I remember reading NDSU & some of the Great West aren't eligible this year for the 1-AA playoffs, any clarification....

[89Hen]

I think only CalPoly and SUU are eligible. I think.

[colgate13]

That will become very interesting to see if NDSU keeps it up. Isn't it that you need 3 years at I-AA to be playoff eligible? Isn't this #2? I think that means they're eligible in 2007 - but that is a complete guess.

[colgate13]

Its a five year transition with the first year being when you notify the NCAA. Then you have four years to get your D-I act together. I think it is '07 for N. Colorado and UC Davis, and '08 for NDSU and SDSU.

:bow: Thanks ralph.

So no matter what NDSU does, they ain't winning a national championship this year, that's for sure.

[Gil Dobie]

:bow: Thanks ralph.

So no matter what NDSU does, they ain't winning a national championship this year, that's for sure.

Has an Ivy ever finished #1 in the polls at the end of the season?

[ChickenMan]

I don't think any Ivy ever finished #1... but Holy Cross may have been #1 in a final poll back in the mid to late 80's... during the period when the Patriot League prohibited participation in the playoffs.

[GannonFan]

I don't think Holy Cross was ever #1 back then - they may have gotten some votes but that was it.

[89Hen]

Was Holy Cross in the Ivy League?
Made sense to me Ralph. No Ivy had, but a PL might have when they were like the Ivy and not participating of their own volition.

[colgate13]

Made sense to me Ralph. No Ivy had, but a PL might have when they were like the Ivy and not participating of their own volition.

Yea, I get it too. Now we're better than the Ivys. Great point! :p

[Stang Fever]

I wont call the PL the worst league and i wont call the Ivy the best league...However both leagues in my eye's are pretty much the same...Two good teams at the top of both confrences (and when i say good, mean can when 7 maybe 8 games a season against middle of the road comp) but then your bottom feeders (i like to call catfish) suck..and suck real bad...would have a hard time beating the non scollie I-AA's....



Give me a break here...Harvard number one yeah right....when these two teams start having schdules that match the hoopla around them that i hear on this board then i will respect them...until they start doing that they will always be crap...out of the 100+ 1-AA's there schedules (pick a team) is rarely in the top 40's of hardest schedules...

[OL FU]

I don't think any Ivy ever finished #1... but Holy Cross may have been #1 in a final poll back in the mid to late 80's... during the period when the Patriot League prohibited participation in the playoffs.

I recall them making it to number #2, but than again, it was a long time ago and my memory has to be considered. :)

[89Hen]

Now we're better than the Ivys.
Abso-frickin-lutely. You play with the big boys, the Ivies took their ball and went home long ago.... and haven't come back. :nod:

[putter]

Do the Ivy's ever play teams OOC?

[89Hen]

The top four teams in the Ivy League finished (http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&yr=2004) all in the top 40 of I-AA in schedule strength. Hardly "crap." Your hyperbole is out of order.
:rolleyes: Best OOC opponents for the top four Ivy teams....

Harvard 38 - Lafayette 23
Villanova 16 - Penn 13
Brown... 4-7 URI? or 5-6 Fordham?
Lehigh 30 - Yale 24

That's crap alright.

[89Hen]

2005 Ivy League vs. A-10 and Patriot League:
9/17/05 Harvard at Holy Cross
9/17/05 Princeton at Lafayette
9/17/05 Colgate at Dartmouth
9/17/05 Bucknell at Cornell
9/17/05 Columbia at Fordham
9/17/05 Brown at Georgetown
9/24/05 Pennsylvania at Villanova
9/24/05 Dartmouth at New Hampshire
10/1/05 Lehigh at Harvard
10/1/05 Holy Cross at Yale
10/1/05 Cornell at Colgate
10/1/05 Rhode Island at Brown
10/8/05 Bucknell at Pennsylvania
10/8/05 Colgate at Princeton
10/8/05 Columbia at Lafayette
10/8/05 Fordham at Brown
10/15/05 Harvard at Lafayette
10/15/05 Yale at Lehigh
10/15/05 Dartmouth at Holy Cross
10/15/05 Georgetown at Cornell

So that's three against the A10 and be willing to wager an ice cream cone at the UD-JMU game that the Ivy goes at best 1-2 in those three.

[Cincy App]

I don't think any Ivy ever finished #1... but Holy Cross may have been #1 in a final poll back in the mid to late 80's... during the period when the Patriot League prohibited participation in the playoffs.


Correct. Holy Cross was #1 in the final regular season poll in 1987 but didn't participate in the playoffs. Appalachian State was #2 that year but lost in the playoff semifinals to Marshall - a team that ASU had beat earlier in the season.

[Hansel]

Correct. Holy Cross was #1 in the final regular season poll in 1987 but didn't participate in the playoffs. Appalachian State was #2 that year but lost in the playoff semifinals to Marshall - a team that ASU had beat earlier in the season.
was HC undefeated?

[Lafalumni29]

I wont call the PL the worst league and i wont call the Ivy the best league...However both leagues in my eye's are pretty much the same...Two good teams at the top of both confrences (and when i say good, mean can when 7 maybe 8 games a season against middle of the road comp) but then your bottom feeders (i like to call catfish) suck..and suck real bad...would have a hard time beating the non scollie I-AA's....



Give me a break here...Harvard number one yeah right....when these two teams start having schdules that match the hoopla around them that i hear on this board then i will respect them...until they start doing that they will always be crap...out of the 100+ 1-AA's there schedules (pick a team) is rarely in the top 40's of hardest schedules...
I woundn't exactly be pounding my chest being from the west either chief. Seems as though those who pick the at-large teams for the playoffs don't seem to think the west is much of a league either. :)

[Cincy App]

was HC undefeated?

Yes, HC was undefeated that year. Mark Daffner was the coach and Gordie Lockbaum was the star player. Lockbaum was actually a two-way threat who finished third in the Heisman Trophy voting that year. Not too shabby!

[TigerFan17]

Even Towson (A-10) beat an Ivy last year (Cornell). What, they're not good? Oh. :D

[HensRock]

That will become very interesting to see if NDSU keeps it up.

Check the Sagarin rankings. I know they are not corelated yet, but NDSU is currently the top team in I-AA. Maine is second.

[89Hen]

an Ivy school gave NU the worst beating of the year bigger than any A-10 squad did.

BFD. UAB gave Baylor a worse beating than anyone in the Big XII did. Somebody better let OU and UT that C-USA is better than their conference.


Harvard won all their games period

As did Robert Morris in 2000.


Penn's top OOC opponent was Bucknell whom they beat.

Really?
14 16.89 Villanova A10
32 29.67 Bucknell PL


Brown won all their OOC games

So did Towson.


Yale was 5-5 but still beat Colgate and Dayton OOC

Maine was 3-5 in the A10 but still beat Mississippi State and Northern Colorado
Villanova was 3-5 in the A10 but still beat Bucknell, Lehigh and Penn
Towson was 0-8 in the A10 but still beat Cornell (4-3 Ivy)

Ralph, I expect a better effort from you.

[Stang Fever]

:rolleyes: Best OOC opponents for the top four Ivy teams....

Harvard 38 - Lafayette 23
Villanova 16 - Penn 13
Brown... 4-7 URI? or 5-6 Fordham?
Lehigh 30 - Yale 24

That's crap alright.

Could not have said it better....PURE CRAP.....if this was poker i would be all in....that the IVY's dont beat anyone good this season...at most 1 maybe 2 victories from a QUALITY OPPONENT



Not this Cornell, G-Town, Yale crap either...three teams so far from being Quality

[colgate13]

:boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring: :boring::boring::boring::boring::boring::boring:

Done with your anti-PL and Ivy rant yet? It's getting old.

[89Hen]

Done with your anti-PL and Ivy rant yet? It's getting old.
Who me? :o

[colgate13]

Who me? :o

Nah, I know your angle. ;)

Our new member from Cal Poly has not had some pleasant things to say about my comrades in a few threads. It's old, tired ground we're going over when someone brings up PL or Ivy schedules. I just thought this had died mostly in the past few years with solid PL playoff representation.

:twocents:

[89Hen]

It's funny. One day I find myself sticking up for the Ivy (when people say they shouldn't even be in the polls) and the next I'm going against them (when people try to pass off their schedules as strong). I'm definitely a fence walker on them. :nod:

[Pete's Weekly]

Has an Ivy ever finished #1 in the polls at the end of the season?

Yes, they have about a dozen national championships actually. ;)

[Hansel]

http://www.claires.com/images/products/74100_200.jpg

[Hansel]

It's funny. One day I find myself sticking up for the Ivy (when people say they shouldn't even be in the polls) and the next I'm going against them (when people try to pass off their schedules as strong). I'm definitely a fence walker on them. :nod:
http://www.claires.com/images/products/74100_200.jpg

[Stang Fever]

Nah, I know your angle. ;)

Our new member from Cal Poly has not had some pleasant things to say about my comrades in a few threads. It's old, tired ground we're going over when someone brings up PL or Ivy schedules. I just thought this had died mostly in the past few years with solid PL playoff representation.

:twocents:


Your right i have been to hard on the IVY and PL league....For now on i wont speak on what i see...I wont tell the truth when i see there schdules have maybe 1 ranked team for most teams in those leagues....Maybe I am wrong but let someone from the A-10 play lets say 3 or 4 of those teams...there strength of schdule goes down.


Just so you know i respect any team that wins there confrence...because its hard to do...i just talk bad about both leagues because people on here talk so highly of them....Like they are the Big Sky or A-10...two of the most consistent confrences around

[89Hen]

there schdules have maybe 1 ranked team for most teams in those leagues
Agreed on the Ivy. The PL's OOC schedules are generally better than the Ivy IMO.

[GannonFan]

I agree with the Ivy League - there may be a team or two every year that is pretty good, and, like almost every conference, they could win a title. But, as they don't care about IAA as Ralph says, we'll never know.

Getting back to the original topic, I gotta say that the 5 year wait for playoff participation seems excessively draconian - I could understand something on the order of 2-3 years, but 5 just seems like forever. Is there any rationale behind this that would give some credence to why 5 years is a good number or is the NCAA just simply trying to put big barriers up for teams making the move? I'd like to see these teams be eligible sooner than later (like I said, 2-3 years is a good amount of time to ensure the decision to move is a solid one) as the likes of ND State make it clear that the playoffs would be more respectable with a team like that in it.

[colgate13]

i just talk bad about both leagues because people on here talk so highly of them....Like they are the Big Sky or A-10...two of the most consistent confrences around

Strictly referring to my conference, the PL has a not too shabby 2-2 record vs. A-10 competition so far this year. Playoff performance in the past has backed that up.

Patriot Leaguers think highly of the Ivy's because most of us have 2-3 games per year against the league and we know just how tough they are. We usually split or at most have a slight edge when the conferences play. Those of us that have seen Harvard play know that they are good. They have yet to play this year, but last year they could have gone toe to toe with anyone. Their QB is now in the NFL and their running back transferred from Northwestern and could win the Walter Payton one of these years. Dawson would start on over 90% of I-AA teams if not more.

I hate the fact that the Ivy's don't do the playoffs, only have 10 games and for the most part limit their OOC games to the PL. But I don't let that undermine how I view a conference that typically has 2 or 3 teams that can play with anyone in I-AA.

[Saluki_man]

Its a five year transition with the first year being when you notify the NCAA. Then you have four years to get your D-I act together. I think it is '07 for N. Colorado and UC Davis, and '08 for NDSU and SDSU.

Wow, NDSU appeaars to be a very good team this year that would make the playoffs. The playoffs would be missing this team greatly.

[89Hen]

I view a conference that typically has 2 or 3 teams that can play with anyone in I-AA.
Before I get into another exchange like I had with 'Fordham' about "competitive", when I read a statement like that, that says to me... 'can beat anyone in I-AA on a given day (not every day)', and I just don't agree that the Ivy has 2 or 3. The biggest problem is there's just not much to go on.

Clearly, Penn and Harvard are two of your 2 or 3, but beyond that....

Penn in the 2000's is 32-3 in the Ivy with two losses to Harvard and one to Yale. In that same timeframe, they are 0-2 vs. Villanova (not to mention a loss to Nova in 1999 and a loss to Richmond in 1998 when Penn was 6-1 Ivy).

Harvard is 28-7 in the Ivy and 3-1 vs. Northeastern, but also 0-2 to Lehigh.

[JohnStOnge]

I wish they'd allow a quicker transition to playoff eligibility. Can't believe NDSU has to wait as long as it's got to for eligibility.

[colgate13]

Before I get into another exchange like I had with 'Fordham' about "competitive", when I read a statement like that, that says to me... 'can beat anyone in I-AA on a given day (not every day)', and I just don't agree that the Ivy has 2 or 3. The biggest problem is there's just not much to go on.

Well now we're getting into semantics. My 'play with' was meant as 'give a good game to and make it close and/or win'. I specifically left the word 'beat' out because that's a larger claim that I was willing to make.

Let me phrase it this way: 2 or 3 Ivy teams a year can play any team in I-AA and not get blown out. Sometimes, they might even win.

[Go Bison]

It is a shame that NDSU can't make the playoffs until 2008 but I guess that is the price you pay to move up to a better division. I know I prefer the football in Division 1-AA much better. NDSU's goal this year is to be rated in the top 10 at the end of the year. It is going to be a challenge but the Bison and their fans are looking forward to it.

[bisonguy]

I agree with the Ivy League - there may be a team or two every year that is pretty good, and, like almost every conference, they could win a title. But, as they don't care about IAA as Ralph says, we'll never know.

Getting back to the original topic, I gotta say that the 5 year wait for playoff participation seems excessively draconian - I could understand something on the order of 2-3 years, but 5 just seems like forever. Is there any rationale behind this that would give some credence to why 5 years is a good number or is the NCAA just simply trying to put big barriers up for teams making the move? I'd like to see these teams be eligible sooner than later (like I said, 2-3 years is a good amount of time to ensure the decision to move is a solid one) as the likes of ND State make it clear that the playoffs would be more respectable with a team like that in it.

I believe the wait used to only be two years (three if you count the exploratory year), but the NCAA changed it a few years back. The reasoning is help the schools adjust to the more strict rules and academic requirements in DI. With a total of five years, it also might allow all the student-athletes that were recruited for DII competion a chance to graduate with the program.

NDSU is a bit of an exception to the rule. Football is the major revenue engine of the athletic department, and was able to raise the money to be fully fund all 63 equivalencies in only their second year of the DI transition (54 equivalencies in the first year). It sucks not being able to see NDSU in the postseason until 2008, but it's the price that has to be paid to compete at the next level.

[WYOBISONMAN]

It sucks not being able to see NDSU in the postseason until 2008, but it's the price that has to be paid to compete at the next level.

I agree 100%......it is tough to have to wait until 2008, but it is fantastic to have they type of schedule that NDSU now has with our fellow DI-AA schools. This move was clearly in the best interest of NDSU.

[89Hen]

Let me phrase it this way: 2 or 3 Ivy teams a year can play any team in I-AA and not get blown out.
And I think that's a terrible outlook for a conference.

[ngineer]

:bow: Thanks ralph.

So no matter what NDSU does, they ain't winning a national championship this year, that's for sure.

And all the prospective 'bubble teams' breathe a sigh of relief ;)

[bkrownd]

The Ivies are all askairt of playing Massachusetts. They'd rather pillowfight with Bowdoin and Tufts. (You listening, Harvard?)