Yanks Cave, Add Hughes To Santana Offer

[UNHWildCats]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/11/30/2007-11-30_yankees_decide_to_offer_phil_hughes_in_p-2.html

[Peems]

Bye bye Phil see you in 5 years...

[Reed Rothchild]

Ugh, I'd rather see Kennedy go.

[UNHWildCats]

I dont think the Yanks should do it, just klike i dont think Boston should include Ellsbury or Buchholz.

[Ivytalk]

To get a vintage Santana, I'd trade a couple of Blue Oyster Cults, a Led Zeppelin, a Steppenwolf, and two Stones to be named later!xnodx :p

[Gil Dobie]

Maybe the Twins would throw in Joe Nathan if the Yankees included Hughes, Kennedy and Cabrara. Nathan could be the setup man for Rivera.

[UNHWildCats]

I dunno it sounds like they want those three just for Santana

[Gil Dobie]

I dunno it sounds like they want those three just for Santana

That would be a fair trade for the Twins. xlolx

[Reed Rothchild]

I dont think the Yanks should do it, just klike i dont think Boston should include Ellsbury or Buchholz.

I don't think they should do it either.

[FCS Preview]

Hughes, Cabrera and a minor leaguer?

If that was what Minn wanted, I would jump at that.

[UNHWildCats]

Hughes, Cabrera and a minor leaguer?

If that was what Minn wanted, I would jump at that.
I saw somewhere today they want Hughes, Kennedy and Cabrera

[UNHWildCats]

The Red Sox this evening may have upped their offer, though all indications are they are still refusing to include Ellsbury and perhaps Buchholz.

[UNHWildCats]

The Twins wanted Alan Horne or Austin Jackson, according to Jon Heyman. Now comes word from Tyler Kepner (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/sports/baseball/02yankees.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1196604076-vPVLDtVs5ozC6rnlOHjteQ) that those two are considered untouchable in the deal by the Yanks. Dellin Betances, Ian Kennedy, and Jose Tabata round out the five that they will not include as the third player.

Also the Yankees will move to negotiations with Oakland if Minn doesnt accept the deal today or tomorrow.

[TheValleyRaider]

The Twins wanted Alan Horne or Austin Jackson, according to Jon Heyman. Now comes word from Tyler Kepner (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/sports/baseball/02yankees.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1196604076-vPVLDtVs5ozC6rnlOHjteQ) that those two are considered untouchable in the deal by the Yanks. Dellin Betances, Ian Kennedy, and Jose Tabata round out the five that they will not include as the third player.

Also the Yankees will move to negotiations with Oakland if Minn doesnt accept the deal today or tomorrow.

Can't say I blame them, especially in not giving up Kennedy or Horne if they've already allowed Hughes to be part of the deal. Of course, Oakland's every bit as shrewd as the Twins when it comes to evaluating talent, so Haren isn't going to be cheap either

[UNHWildCats]

I think Minn is taking advantge of who the two teams are that are bidding here.... For a couple days now since the "Sox are in the lead" bit, the Twins seems to be stuck on a Ellsbury AND Buchholz stance with Boston, which just isnt ever gonna happen.

If the Yankees are true to their words that if Minn doesnt accept the deal by tomorrow there off to Haren land, then Minn may have to decide on keeping Santana or taking the Crisp, Lester, Bowden deal from Boston.

[TheValleyRaider]

I think Minn is taking advantge of who the two teams are that are bidding here.... For a couple days now since the "Sox are in the lead" bit, the Twins seems to be stuck on a Ellsbury AND Buchholz stance with Boston, which just isnt ever gonna happen.

If the Yankees are true to their words that if Minn doesnt accept the deal by tomorrow there off to Haren land, then Minn may have to decide on keeping Santana or taking the Crisp, Lester, Bowden deal from Boston.

Well, with Liriano coming back and Delmon Young in the lineup, you could very well see the Twins competing for the Central title again. Continued success could make staying with the franchise seem more agreeable to Santana, unless he's thoroughly convinced he'll get a lot more money on the open market. It also leaves him open to possibly not having a strong season, diminishing his overall value. Lots of angles in this one for all teams involved xrotatehx

[FargoBison]

The bidding war is picking up. Ellsbury has been inlcuded into the new Red Sox offer...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3138088

[TheValleyRaider]

I wonder if this means Boston's more serious than we thought about obtaining Santana. I mean, I certainly can't blame them or any other team for trying to acquire a pitcher of his caliber, but including Ellsbury suggests they might not just be driving up the price for the Yankees, but seriously trying to make this deal. It'd be a heck of a rotation up there if they pull it off

[UNHWildCats]

:(

[UNHWildCats]

According to the article, the Sox offered Ellsbury last week, but Minn wanted Buchholz or Lester included which Boston wont do.

[Cleets]

If Ellsbury is part of the deal the Res Sox are the stupidest team in the history of MLB... Theo should be shot..!!!

Santana will have two seasons and then blow out an arm while Ellsbury goes on to the Hall of fame... xlolx

Who caresif the Yankee's get Santana and his $200 million extension..

[spelunker64]

How fast does this guy throw???
http://www.leftcoastlove.com/images/carlos_santana_arista.jpg

[UNHWildCats]

If Ellsbury is part of the deal the Res Sox are the stupidest team in the history of MLB... Theo should be shot..!!!

Santana will have two seasons and then blow out an arm while Ellsbury goes on to the Hall of fame... xlolx

Who caresif the Yankee's get Santana and his $200 million extension..


If we didnt have a kick ass rotation already, maybe you give up Ellsbury for Santana, but WE DONT NEED HIM, If we can get him for a bargain fine, BUT DONT TRADE JACOBY!!!!

[Reed Rothchild]

I'm going to flip-flop now and say the Yanks need to go for it. They have no one on their roster even CLOSE to what Santana can do. Boston proved last year and others have before that if you have 1 dominant starter and a few other ones who are pretty good than you can win it all. Hughes might be good but no one knows what his true potential will be. Melky is a great fielder but will always be an average hitter who does not hit for power.

[Gil Dobie]

Chances are, the Red Sox or Yankees will get Ellsbury back in 4-5 years. :(

So why all the fuss xconfusedx

[UMass922]

If we didnt have a kick ass rotation already, maybe you give up Ellsbury for Santana, but WE DONT NEED HIM, If we can get him for a bargain fine, BUT DONT TRADE JACOBY!!!!

I disagree about the quality of the Sox' rotation. It's good, but hardly "kick-ass." The possibility of having two bona fide aces at the top of the rotation--both under 30 and in their prime--is worth giving up a young player even of Ellsbury's caliber, IMHO. Everything else being equal, it's always easier to acquire offensive and defensive help than it is pitching. I know Ellsbury is a fan favorite, and I love him too, but I seriously think the Red Sox should consider giving him up--especially if he's the difference between Santana pitching for us and Santana pitching for the Yankees. I just think the Sox need to go for the jugular on this one, and not stand back and be content with what they've got.

I guess I'm in the minority on this one, though (among Sox fans, at least).

[UNHWildCats]

OK let me ask you this...

Would you rather give up Ellsbury, Masterson, Lowrie and some other prospect for Santana

or

Lester, Bowden, Lowrie and another prospect or Crisp for Dan Haren?

[UMass922]

OK let me ask you this...

Would you rather give up Ellsbury, Masterson, Lowrie and some other prospect for Santana

or

Lester, Bowden, Lowrie and another prospect or Crisp for Dan Haren?

Haren's good, but he's not in Santana's league. So I'll take my chances with option number one.

[Reed Rothchild]

I disagree about the quality of the Sox' rotation. It's good, but hardly "kick-ass." The possibility of having two bona fide aces at the top of the rotation--both under 30 and in their prime--is worth giving up a young player even of Ellsbury's caliber, IMHO. Everything else being equal, it's always easier to acquire offensive and defensive help than it is pitching. I know Ellsbury is a fan favorite, and I love him too, but I seriously think the Red Sox should consider giving him up--especially if he's the difference between Santana pitching for us and Santana pitching for the Yankees. I just think the Sox need to go for the jugular on this one, and not stand back and be content with what they've got.

I guess I'm in the minority on this one, though (among Sox fans, at least).

Uh, Boston's "good" rotation led them to the best record in baseball and a fairly easy WS title.

[UMass922]

Uh, Boston's "good" rotation led them to the best record in baseball and a fairly easy WS title.

My point is that you can't rest on your laurels. If you have an opportunity to get the best pitcher in baseball--and keep your divisional rival from getting him--you have to jump on that chance. Because if the Yankees land Santana, all of a sudden the Sox and Yanks are looking very even. And the reality is that the quality of the Sox' rotation is relative to the quality of the Yankees' rotation. The Sox have a chance here to give themselves a huge advantage, and they should do everything they reasonably can to get that advantage.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

:(

Still waiting for the thread title to be change, T. "Yankees and Red Sox Both Cave to Twins". ;)

[UNHWildCats]

Still waiting for the thread title to be change, T. "Yankees and Red Sox Both Cave to Twins". ;)
Red Sox never said they wouldnt trade Ellsbury, they said they wouldnt include more then one of Buchholz, Lester or Ellsbury in a trade for Santana and they havent.

Also now several are reporting that Boston has not offered Ellsbury, that the ESPN report was wrong.

[JoltinJoe]

I disagree about the quality of the Sox' rotation. It's good, but hardly "kick-ass." The possibility of having two bona fide aces at the top of the rotation--both under 30 and in their prime--is worth giving up a young player even of Ellsbury's caliber, IMHO. Everything else being equal, it's always easier to acquire offensive and defensive help than it is pitching. I know Ellsbury is a fan favorite, and I love him too, but I seriously think the Red Sox should consider giving him up--especially if he's the difference between Santana pitching for us and Santana pitching for the Yankees. I just think the Sox need to go for the jugular on this one, and not stand back and be content with what they've got.

I guess I'm in the minority on this one, though (among Sox fans, at least).

I agree the Sox pitching hardly looks to be "kick ass" next year.

Beckett had a career year. Can he do it again? I suspect he'll be fine.

Schilling pitched well as a No. 2, but he's a year older and won't last forever. I suspect you'll see some fall off.

Dice-K is the No. 3 guy. He pitched to a 4.5 ERA last year. Will he do better? Maybe.

Wakefield had an injury-plagued season and didn't seem capable of fooling the good hitting teams anymore.

Lester and Bucholz are going to be good but they're young.

Add Santana, though, and look out!

[Cleets]

Red Sox never said they wouldnt trade Ellsbury, they said they wouldnt include more then one of Buchholz, Lester or Ellsbury in a trade for Santana and they havent.

Also now several are reporting that Boston has not offered Ellsbury, that the ESPN report was wrong.

A buddy of mine who's a ticket broker here in Boston said he heard immediately after the ESPN report that the report was wrong and Ellsbury was not offered...