Samford @ WCU

[SU DOG]

Early, but all Catamounts so far. Samford Defense is pathetic.

[SU DOG]

Hiers possibly knocked out of game and is in the tent and now a lightning delay.

[SU DOG]

I guess I need to reevaluate my boast that our defense would be much improved this season. As for Western, this team may contend for all the SoCon marbles this year. It is still early, however, so certainly time for things to change and I hope they will.

[wcugrad95]

Delay stands to hurt the Cats. Will be interesting to see how the teams come back out from the delay.

[caribbeanhen]

Hiers possibly knocked out of game and is in the tent and now a lightning delay.

I saw that but after the delay didn’t see if he played again

hope he is ok

[wcugrad95]

Hiers played the entire game. Other than the first drive, he did not look as good as expected - he missed several throws that you would expect him to make given last year. After the delay it was all Western. Samford didn't seem very interested in tackling late in the game, and many of the yards they were picking up came after WCU had surged ahead.

It is 1 game, but Western looked the best they have looked in years last night. I was worried about an emotional letdown by us coming back from the long delay and we actually played better.

[The Cats]

OK poll voters, I hope you take notice of the Western Carolina, Samford game. It's important for you to remember, you were not wrong about their placement in the top ten, you were mistaken to have overlooked the Catamounts up to this point and the strides they have made in the last two years.

Yes the Cats are good enough to beat a top ten team, a top ten team guided by probably the best QB in the FBS.

Look at the stats, and note also that the Cat defense sacked him six, yes, six times during the game.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5q6osVWMAA8_ql?format=jpg&name=small



https://twitter.com/BirminghamSport/status/1700604366544142662

[SU DOG]

Hiers was not the same after that hit. Nothing, however, should alter the fact that Western gave my Bulldogs a real butt-kicking. We got outplayed in every facet of the game. Future SoCon opponents take this WCU Team lightly at your own risk. This is a solid football team at every position. They are hungry and they are a contender while I'm afraid (it hurts to say) that Samford, this year, may be a pretender.
We have the talent to bounce back, so I'm hoping to see better days but right now, my disappointment is heavy.

[wcugrad95]

It was a tough spot for Samford - playing a game at WCU early when you really didn't know what we were bringing to the table probably caught the Bulldogs off-guard. I don't expect WCU to sneak up on anybody going forward, but this team is really light-years ahead of where we have been. They often say year 3 is where you see what a coach means to a program, and we are hoping Coach Bell has the players he wants and can mimic the success he had at his other stops now.

[Reign of Terrier]

Now that Catamount fans get to learn that grump AGS posters get really offended (as if you insulted their honor!) when you suggest a young up and coming program that isn't in the MVFC or Big Sky is good.

[caribbeanhen]

Now that Catamount fans get to learn that grump AGS posters get really offended (as if you insulted their honor!) when you suggest a young up and coming program that isn't in the MVFC or Big Sky is good.

name one grump Sonny

[Reign of Terrier]

Open the week zero poll thread and I will point you to a bunch of humorless folks

[Reign of Terrier]

I just watched the first 50 minutes (not counting rain delay) of this game, and I'm impressed with Western Carolina. If they can beat EKU, which I think they will, they'll have the inside track on the playoffs. Will say more in the power rankings threads

[The Cats]

I just watched the first 50 minutes (not counting rain delay) of this game, and I'm impressed with Western Carolina. If they can beat EKU, which I think they will, they'll have the inside track on the playoffs. Will say more in the power rankings threads

Wow

[Reign of Terrier]

Wow

Don't act so surprised xcoffeex

Western is in the process of giving themselves something they've never had before: big margin of error. Having Samford in the rear view mirror is important. Mercer and Furman are different matchups than Samford, but even if you chalked those up as losses, right now Western is better than VMI, The Citadel, ETSU, and Wofford. Not sure where Chatt fits on this.

Regardless, a 7-4 Socon team could have a good shot at the playoffs, pending on who it is (probably not Samford due to lack of D1 wins - they've put themselves in a corner).

If Western beats EKU and Chuck south, they don't need to win the socon to make the playoffs, just finish 6-2 (8-3 overall). EKU will be a great litmus test IMO. And if they stumble at 5-3/7-4, pending on who those are (Mercer/Furman/Chatt), they could be seen as good losses or neutral losses. EKU could turn out to be a quality win if they can pull it off and EKU get the OVC/Big South Auto bid, another quality W. And all of this is assuming Samford doesn't rally, which would be a bold assumption.

Western still has a lot of work ahead of them, and I still have some questions that will need to be answered (how good will that run defense be against a team that runs out of principle - can western run commit against them and not give up big passes; how much of the offensive dominance was Samford's defense being bad; etc)

These are good questions to have. I think the answers are compatible with western being able to make the playoffs. Lots of work ahead though!

[FUBeAR]

Don't act so surprised xcoffeex

Western is in the process of giving themselves something they've never had before: big margin of error. Having Samford in the rear view mirror is important. Mercer and Furman are different matchups than Samford, but even if you chalked those up as losses, right now Western is better than VMI, The Citadel, ETSU, and Wofford. Not sure where Chatt fits on this.

Regardless, a 7-4 Socon team could have a good shot at the playoffs, pending on who it is (probably not Samford due to lack of D1 wins - they've put themselves in a corner).

If Western beats EKU and Chuck south, they don't need to win the socon to make the playoffs, just finish 6-2 (8-3 overall). EKU will be a great litmus test IMO. And if they stumble at 5-3/7-4, pending on who those are (Mercer/Furman/Chatt), they could be seen as good losses or neutral losses. EKU could turn out to be a quality win if they can pull it off and EKU get the OVC/Big South Auto bid, another quality W. And all of this is assuming Samford doesn't rally, which would be a bold assumption.

Western still has a lot of work ahead of them, and I still have some questions that will need to be answered (how good will that run defense be against a team that runs out of principle - can western run commit against them and not give up big passes; how much of the offensive dominance was Samford's defense being bad; etc)

These are good questions to have. I think the answers are compatible with western being able to make the playoffs. Lots of work ahead though!
That would be something for sure … since EKU is in the UAC.

[caribbeanhen]

I just watched the first 50 minutes (not counting rain delay) of this game, and I'm impressed with Western Carolina. If they can beat EKU, which I think they will, they'll have the inside track on the playoffs. Will say more in the power rankings threads

The entire Caribbean was watching the day Kerwin Bell was hired

One very nice win

lets see what happens

[Karl Havoc]

I watched the Samford/WCU game last night and was shocked at how Samford’s defensive line was getting blown off the ball by WCU. Hard to believe they held their own in Fargo last season. Is the d-line banged up? Did they lose a lot to graduation? It was ugly.

[FUBeAR]

I watched the Samford/WCU game last night and was shocked at how Samford’s defensive line was getting blown off the ball by WCU. Hard to believe they held their own in Fargo last season. Is the d-line banged up? Did they lose a lot to graduation? It was ugly.
Only 1 DL Starter returned for Samford - Mera #35 - only 1 LB returned also + another part-time Starting LB, and 0 Secondary starters.

Brought in a new ‘crop’ of Transfers to try to replace last years crop of transfers who finished/left … only 1 game, but looks like they might have taken a bath in, instead of drinking from, the 2023 Transfer Portal trough.

[caribbeanhen]

Open the week zero poll thread and I will point you to a bunch of humorless folks

that wasn’t grumpy

[Reign of Terrier]

Okay, but seriously, can anyone answer me the Samford question about 3-3-5? Western has a good OL, but you don't need a magnificient one to control the line of scrimmage when your opponent brings only 6 in the box, with one of the linebackers lined up on one side of the field. That's basically how Western was able to run all over them for the first 20 minutes or so. I honestly haven't watched Samford's defense intently over the years, mainly because everyone loaded the box against Wofford, but I just thought the scheme was really bad for Samford in this game.

They basically ran a permutation of a couple plays and blitzes that were easily offset with number in the box with the run game or a quick pass to a running back. I understand respecting Western's big play ability, but the lack of flexibility in scheme and poor tackling (to say nothing of lack of energy) gave me the impression that there's something wrong at Samford.

Maybe they ran this style last year, were more seasoned as a unit, and I just didn't notice. Maybe the "bend but don't break" defense works well with the offense Samford runs. If that was true of last year, I think we can say that defense (so far) isn't what it was last year.

[wcugrad95]

Last year Western did not adjust in the Samford game - we moved the ball well but stalled in the redzone, and tried to force the ball down the field instead of taking what Samford gave us all game long. The score was very different, but Western was not that far off from having a very close game with us kicking a bunch of FGs instead of scoring TDs in 2022. In this game we stalled a couple of times in the redzone, but we started the game off running the football and continuing to do it until Samford proved they could stop it. Finishing drives off were due in big part to our aggressive nature to run the football. But I know - we are an air-raid offense
xsmiley_wix

[Reign of Terrier]

I mean, the preference to pass down field when Samford was begging you to run with the look they gave, was very air-raid adjacent.

[The Cats]

I mean, the preference to pass down field when Samford was begging you to run with the look they gave, was very air-raid adjacent.

Western put up a total of 546 yards on the Bulldogs. 262 yards passing, and 284 rushing. How can you think Samford was begging us to run, they couldn't stop our ground game? Western's time of possession was 41:09 to Samford's 18:51. That is not just a pass happy team, you are wrong. ...and guess which team's defense was dominate, something you continue to harp on about WCU? the answer certainly is not Samford's defense.

[Reign of Terrier]

Oh my God, take a joke, Jesus.

There's a difference between being an air raid team and using air raid concepts, in the same way there's a difference between using option concepts and being an option team. Not every team that likes to run the ball runs option concepts, not every team that passes the ball a lot uses air raid concepts.

You call this being wiggly, but it's actually just a failure of football knowledge and understanding football on your part. I'm not trying to say that to be combative, it's just annoying you're not listening to what I'm saying.

So, I will say it again: trying to exploit defenses by putting playmakers in space with deep passes (especially those that exploit zone) are primarily air raid concepts (and my guess is that's why Samford played so deep). If you look at the passes Western throws most often, relative to anyone else in the conference sans Samford (and maybe VMI) that's what they do. Heck, when VMI won the conference in the spring season, they ran the ball 42% of the time, and they were 50-50 in 2021. The whole time, they said they were an air raid.

It's not about play selection, it's about scheme, and what tendencies and principles you lean on offense. Mercer, ETSU, Wofford, and Chatt, sure, they will take a shot down field, but usually when they're passing it's a play action, a boot leg, or a drop back where they're banking on hitting a pass at a certain point of the field ASAP, but when air raid teams do their thing, it takes a touch longer to develop. That's not to say they don't have those more direct passes in the playbook (and Samford at one point or Mike Leach were purer air raids because they would swap run plays with those kinds of passes), but they're a more bedrock principle of their offense.

So when I say Western is more of an air raid offenses (and that I'm skeptical of those offenses being good for defenses long term), I'm talking about the use of spacing and the tendency to chuck it down field, not the composition of play calls. In all, it seems like the air raid offenses in general are converging on more running at everywhere that runs an air raid (except Mike Leach RIP), just like how all the option teams 5-10 years ago converged on more shotgun play.

So maybe the idea of the air raid as throwing it 60 times a game is just outdated, and the shortcomings it creates not as pronounced.

Regardless, when I say Western is an air raid team and associate weaknesses with that, I'm not saying they only pass the ball and can't run it, I'm saying air raid concepts are integral to their team. Wofford in 2019 wasn't an option (nor William & Mary this year), but option concepts were integral to their Identity.

There are second orders consequences (good and bad) to running any certain offense, and I happen to think the air raid ones are worse. The Samford result for WCU this past week didn't eliminate those concerns. For instance I don't think Samford runs well, and their defensive alignment was going to favor Western for hat-on-hat blocking, and if I were to be a true hater I'd pretend to not be impressed for the rushing numbers. But western did quell lots of other concerns we typically see with air raid team defenses (tackling ability), while also showing unique excellence in other defense aspects like coverage. Those good feats, alongside good Conference matchups, I think will far compensate for potential shortcoming in the run game (presuming they even exist, which they may not). That's why I'm impressed with WCU.