Big Sky No Longer a Premier Conference

[Hansel]

Let's be honest now.

The Big Sky Conference is no longer a premier I-AA football conference.

It's the Grizzlies and everybody else.

Every once in a while Montana State will challenge and maybe an Eastern Washington or Northern Arizona. But none of those teams dominate through an entire season.

The last team to post a double-digit win total - outside of UM - was Eastern Washington in 1997.


http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2007/11/28/sports/local/20-kusek.txt

[GannonFan]

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[89Hen]

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[Tim James]

They were really good when they had Nevada, Idaho, and Boise St. Maybe they can get Idaho back ?

[BigApp]

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[bandl]

Well duh. We all knew this.

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[Tim James]

Oh and perhaps they should have gone after the Dakotas instead of Portland State, Sacramento State and Cal State Northridge like the article says but the Dakotas werent ready to move up yet.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

OK I'm inxwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex

[Tim James]

Why are they not reaching out to Idaho to try to bring them back to help strengthen the conference ?

[Grizalltheway]

Why are they not reaching out to Idaho to try to bring them back to help strengthen the conference ?

Are they even interested in coming back? They won't even play us anymore, we've spanked them the last few times we met.

[Appaholic]

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(I swear this dude poached his article from my thread two weeks ago.....or it could just be common knowledge)

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

xdeadhorsex xdeadhorsex xdeadhorsex xdeadhorsex

[griz37]

I never once had any inkling that 89Hen was Joe Kusek. :p

[Tim James]

Are they even interested in coming back? They won't even play us anymore, we've spanked them the last few times we met.

They are a joke of a 1-A school. No one thinks they belong there except for maybe a few fans/alums. They dont even meet the FBS requirements yet year after year are allowed to keep their status.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

I never once had any inkling that 89Hen was Joe Kusek. :p

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Syntax Error]

(I swear this dude poached his article from my thread two weeks ago.....or it could just be common knowledge)It's common knowledge that nearly every FCS writer in the country is a member here and uses AGS for story ideas. Good for them!

[Tim James]

Since the Big Sky is no longer a premier conference they must find ways to try to improve it.

Adding Northern Colorado was a good step. They are a former D 2 power.

Trying to get Idaho to come back would be another positive step.

Adding Southern Utah wouldnt help improve much.

Adding North and South Dakota after they tire of the Great West would strengthen the conference.

All is not lost. Things can get better.

[89Hen]

I never once had any inkling that 89Hen was Joe Kusek. :p
That's Mr. Kusek to you pal. :p

[AZGrizFan]

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I think that's the next number.

[lizrdgizrd]

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[kalm]

Every once in a while Montana State will challenge and maybe an Eastern Washington or Northern Arizona. But none of those teams dominate through an entire season.

True about the domination, but EWU has made the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years, MSU did the same thing going back from last year, NAU and EWU knocked off #1 seeds and EWU also a #2.

One dominate team plus 3 playoff caliber teams seems about par for most conferences, the unusual part about the Sky being that Montana has been on top for so long. But that doesn't diminish the competitiveness of the the other three. As hinted at earlier, we probably just suffer from the lower half teams. But ask McNeese, SIU, and Furman if it's just Montana and no one else. xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

One dominate team plus 3 playoff caliber teams seems about par for most conferences, the unusual part about the Sky being that Montana has been on top for so long. But that doesn't diminish the competitiveness of the the other three. As hinted at earlier, we probably just suffer from the lower half teams. But ask McNeese, SIU, and Furman if it's just Montana and no one else. xthumbsupx
Not quite accurate. The last BSC team to make the semis besides Montana was EWU in 1997. Since then the other 'power' conference have had 4 or 5 different teams all make the semis.

[KAUMASS]

....But....the last time I checked they have a team in the quarterfinals this year that is not named the Griz. This article just jinxed App. State.

The lower half of the big sky definately needs to pick it up, no arguement there.

[GreatAppSt]

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[BisonBacker]

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[89Hen]

....But....the last time I checked they have a team in the quarterfinals this year that is not named the Griz.
So every ten years we can expect a Big Sky semifinalist not named Montana?

[lizrdgizrd]

So every ten years we can expect a Big Sky semifinalist not named Montana?
Don't count on it just yet. xsmiley_wix

[KAUMASS]

So every ten years we can expect a Big Sky semifinalist not named Montana?


Yep. Giddy up Eastern Washington.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Don't count on it just yet. xsmiley_wix

Exactly... more like every year (for the next two or three) :D
This is just the beginning of EWU's dominance... with a mostly sophmore laden team, we're going to cause some damage the next couple years (pending we can replace our senior O-line). Plus, if we win on saturday, our Program is going to start getting a lot more recognition (like Montana when they make it a couple rounds in the playoffs) which in turn helps recruit and build tradition... 3 out of the last 4 years, a Walter Payton award winner (possibly another next year or so with Nichols), current NFL players (Jesse Chatman, Miami RB, and Michael Roos, Tennessee OL)... Eastern is building to be a power right now...

Anyways, done with my point for now, might as well start whistling SIU's, McNeese's, and soon to be Appy's tune...
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[AZGrizFan]

So every ten years we can expect a Big Sky semifinalist not named Montana?

CAA

'93 - 0
'94 - 0
'95 - 0 (BTW, Montana as NC)
'96 - 0 (BTW, Montana as runner up)
'97 - Delaware (L)
'98 - UMass (NC)
'99 - 0
'00 - Delaware (L), (BTW, Montana as runner up)
'01 - 0 (BTW, Montana as NC)
'02 - Villanova (L)
'03 - Delaware (NC)
'04 - W&M, JMU (NC), (BTW, Montana as runner up)
'05 - 0
'06 - UMass

So the score is CAA 8, Montana 5. :D

[patssle]

Don't forget about Montana and their stellar all-character team...then Montana States dealing earlier as well.

[ERASU2113]

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[griz8791]

Don't forget about Montana and their stellar all-character team...then Montana States dealing earlier as well.

Both of those are cheap hasty generalizations and you know it.

[CharlestonAppFan]

CAA

'93 - 0
'94 - 0
'95 - 0 (BTW, Montana as NC)
'96 - 0 (BTW, Montana as runner up)
'97 - Delaware (L)
'98 - UMass (NC)
'99 - 0
'00 - Delaware (L), (BTW, Montana as runner up)
'01 - 0 (BTW, Montana as NC)
'02 - Villanova (L)
'03 - Delaware (NC)
'04 - W&M, JMU (NC), (BTW, Montana as runner up)
'05 - 0
'06 - UMass

So the score is CAA 8, Montana 5. :D

SOCON:

'93 - Marshall
'94 - Marshall
'95 - Marshall
'96 - Marshall
'97 - 0 xnonono2x
'98 - Georgia Southern
'99 - Georgia Southern
'00 - Appalachian State, Georgia Southern
'01 - Georgia Southern, Furman
'02 - Georgia Southern
'03 - Wofford
'04 - 0 xnonono2x
'05 - Appalachian State, Furman
'06 - Appalachian State

Figured I throw it out there as long as we were all just sayin....xsmiley_wix

[appstate38]

There sure alot of dog piling on the BSC these days. Man I can only imagine it getting worst after Saturday..... Oh yeah I forgot we have to win that one first.xoopsx xrolleyesx

[AZGrizFan]

SOCON:

'93 - Marshall
'94 - Marshall
'95 - Marshall
'96 - Marshall
'97 - 0 xnonono2x
'98 - Georgia Southern
'99 - Georgia Southern
'00 - Appalachian State, Georgia Southern
'01 - Georgia Southern, Furman
'02 - Georgia Southern
'03 - Wofford
'04 - 0 xnonono2x
'05 - Appalachian State, Furman
'06 - Appalachian State

Figured I throw it out there as long as we were all just sayin....xsmiley_wix

Dayum. xeekx

And you didn't even bother to count the NC's, assuming of course that that would be just rubbing our noses in it.... :o :o :o

[already123]

no matter what happens in the BSC there will continue to be nay-sayers.

[Hansel]

Adding Northern Colorado was a good step. They are a former D 2 power.


They are 1-15 in Big Sky Play and were struggling (went 2-9) in FCS before being accepted into the Big Sky

[kalm]

Not quite accurate. The last BSC team to make the semis besides Montana was EWU in 1997. Since then the other 'power' conference have had 4 or 5 different teams all make the semis.

Good point, but I think it would be better if Montana had no success in the playoffs. However, the Griz have won their share of playoff games, signifying that playing in the BSC does at least a decent job of preparing the Griz for the playoffs.

Also, consider that with a dominant program like the Griz in the conference, it's that much more difficult for other BSC teams to win the conference title and host a playoff game. How many BSC teams have hosted playoff games since 1997, two? How many of those CAA that made at least the semi's were playing at home?

[D1B]

Re: Montana will be back - 11-26-2007, 10:30 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZGrizFan
And yet, I produced a stat earlier in the year that said 26% something like of the FCS teams are West of the Mississippi, and 27% of the NC's have been won by teams West of the Mississippi since 1978. So, if by "every ****ing year" you mean THE LAST FIVE YEARS, then your argument holds water. If you mean "every ****ing year since 1978" (figuratively speaking, of course), then you've got your head up the Cap'n's ass.



Response by D1B
I'm talking now. It's a different game. You cannot deny that your conference is abysmal. It's darwinian really. Your only as strong as your prey. The Montana Grizzley has transitioned from a bad ass, moose dropping mother****er, to a fat, lazy land fill bruin chewing on used tampons and **** filled diapers.

xlolx In case you missed this gem.xlolx

[kalm]

BTW AZGRIZ,

I've built up an immunity to Iocane. xthumbsupx

[CharlestonAppFan]

Dayum. xeekx

And you didn't even bother to count the NC's, assuming of course that that would be just rubbing our noses in it.... :o :o :o

I would never do that to you buddy xsmhx . I'm always fearful of the Griz every year, and your previous post says it all. The Griz have been there more times than my Apps....I hope next year we can meet you guys in the semis for that long awaited rematchxnodx

[AZGrizFan]

BTW AZGRIZ,

I've built up an immunity to Iocane. xthumbsupx

"Smell this, but do not touch."

"I smell nothing."

"What you do not smell is called Iocane powder."

[Cleets]

True about the domination, but EWU has made the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years, MSU did the same thing going back from last year, NAU and EWU knocked off #1 seeds and EWU also a #2.

One dominate team plus 3 playoff caliber teams seems about par for most conferences, the unusual part about the Sky being that Montana has been on top for so long. But that doesn't diminish the competitiveness of the the other three. As hinted at earlier, we probably just suffer from the lower half teams. But ask McNeese, SIU, and Furman if it's just Montana and no one else. xthumbsupx

Save your breath... xlolx
Nobody will listen

[GOKATS]

I can't believe it............... noone outside of Billings, MT bothers to read a Kuseck article, but the POS makes an AGS thread and the BS goes on for five pages.xoopsx

Let it die, the guy is an idiot.xnodx

[catbob]

Is this the same guy who constantly cries because he wants us to play Northern in BBall?

[kalm]

Save your breath... xlolx
Nobody will listen

Except, apparently, for you. But hey, you said it. xthumbsupx

[GOKATS]

Is this the same guy who constantly cries because he wants us to play Northern in BBall?

I don't read him, but I think it's MSU-Billings he thinks we should play every year.

[EagleCreekH20]

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xcoffeex

[rob_p469]

The guy who wrote this column is a fat tub of lard. He knows less about football then Paris Hilton. If you "east coasters" want to keep knocking the Big Sky, by all means. But I would put our top four against any top four in the country. I guess ignorance runs rampant east of the mississippi.

[rancher griz]

I agree that the Big Sky has weakened. The top of the conference is fine with UM, MSU, PSU, and EWU all seeing recent postseason sucess and/or large non conf. wins. The bottom of the conference really hurts us. NAU and WSU have been fairly competitive but haven't shown much outside the conference. Sac St. and UNC continue to be consistant losers. Here is my vision for improving the conference:

Get on our hands and knees and beg North Dakota State, South Dakota State, and Cal Poly to join. This would make the conference 12 teams that we could split up into 2 divisions. Each team would play the 5 other teams in their division every year and would play three games in the other division. Playing 3 one year and the other 3 the next year.

North Division:
Montana
Montana St.
Idaho St.
Eastern Wash.
North Dakota St.
South Dakota St.

South Division:
Weber St.
Northern Colorado
Northern Arizona
Portland State
Cal Poly
Sacramento State

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I agree that the Big Sky has weakened. The top of the conference is fine with UM, MSU, PSU, and EWU all seeing recent postseason sucess and/or large non conf. wins. The bottom of the conference really hurts us. NAU and WSU have been fairly competitive but haven't shown much outside the conference. Sac St. and UNC continue to be consistant losers. Here is my vision for improving the conference:

Get on our hands and knees and beg North Dakota State, South Dakota State, and Cal Poly to join. This would make the conference 12 teams that we could split up into 2 divisions. Each team would play the 5 other teams in their division every year and would play three games in the other division. Playing 3 one year and the other 3 the next year.

North Division:
Montana
Montana St.
Idaho St.
Eastern Wash.
North Dakota St.
South Dakota St.

South Division:
Weber St.
Northern Colorado
Northern Arizona
Portland State
Cal Poly
Sacramento State

You haven't been here too long so you may not know this but NDSU and SDSU are Gateway members beginning next season so there is no chance of this scenario coming to fruition.

[rancher griz]

You haven't been here too long so you may not know this but NDSU and SDSU are Gateway members beginning next season so there is no chance of this scenario coming to fruition.

Looks like the Gateway just became that much better of a conference than us then. Frustrating! Here's an idea, lets add another school who draws the attendance of a high school. Maybe we should ask Fort Lewis to move up. Fulleton has to go.

[JackJD]

Get on our hands and knees and beg North Dakota State, South Dakota State, and Cal Poly to join.


A few short years ago, SDSU and NDSU would have done just about anything to join the Big Sky. Both schools sought admission. The Big Sky just turned their collective noses up at the possibility of the Jackrabbits and Bison joining. That was followed by a couple of game cancellations, with each XDSU, by each Montana school (if my memory is correct). The cancellations were discussed and explained ad nauseum on various fan message boards and I have to admit a persuassive, financially-based case was made for each cancellation. Even so, both SDSU and NDSU didn't appreciate the cancellations. Current attitude: to heck with UM and MSU, we'll see you in the football playoffs.

The Great West Football Conference was formed out of necessity and instantly had great success. People saw what the XDSUs could do and had the potential to do as they slid into DI eligibility.

Now, both SDSU and NDSU are in the Summit League and next season start play in the Gateway (likely to be renamed the Missouri Valley Conference for football). The Jackrabbits and Bison are very happy. We join schools in the same time zone. Next year, the Gateway will be recognized as the top FCS conference in the country, no questions asked. The Summit League's stature will grow quickly when the XDSUs are fully eligible for post-season play in 08-09 (early example: the Jackrabbit volleyball team, one of two sports SDSU could designate as instantly eligible for NCAA post-season competition -- the other sport is wrestling -- is in the NCAA tourney after winning the regular season Summit League and the post-season Summit Tourney).

Talking about how the XDSUs should have been invited to the Big Sky is a waste of your time. Your time would be better invested convincing the scheduling powers that playing tougher OOC opponents by all of the Big Sky schools is a priority. The XDSUs have operated under the belief that to be the best, you play the best.

You should have seen the SDSU v NDSU football game for the Great West Conference title.

[Syntax Error]

and with the XDAKS joining the GWFC there seems to be little drop off...

[JackJD]

and with the XDAKS joining the GWFC there seems to be little drop off...

I think the UXDs will make themselves known with UND much more likely to make some noise very early in transition but I think USD had a savvy coach who will get it figured out and raise the level of play by the Coyotes. I personally like the idea of the UXDs being (permanently) in different conferences than the XDSUs.

[McNeese_beat]

OK, here's myxtwocentsx

In my opinion, man-for-man, the 2003 Northern Arizona team that beat McNeese, the 2002 Montana State team and this year's Eastern Washington team were better than Idaho and Nevada were when McNeese first started playing the Big Sky year-in-and-year-out in the post-season back in the early 1990s.

Of course, in the early 90s McNeese never lost in the first round, now they almost never win, so that can color my opinion. But looking back, the Big Sky teams are as physical as ever, but they do a better job begging, borrowing or stealing to get quality skill people across the board. I remember Nussmeier at Idaho (hope I spelled his name right) was a nice future NFL QB but I don't think he had a stable of receivers that Eastern Washington has now or a stud like Clarence Moore from NAU (what ever happened to him? I thought he was doing pretty good with the Ravens, but he's fallen off the map. Did he get hurt?).

But I do think there is a lack of identity with the Big Sky teams. I don't know what Sacramento State's problem is, but it seems like you are sitting in the middle of a goldmine of talent out there in a state that doesn't have a lot of college football...plus you're a Cal State school and not a UC, so you shouldn't have as hard of a time getting them in school (or am I misunderstanding how it works out there?). So it's only a matter of time before circumstances — administrative support, the right coach — come together to take advantage.

I think there's talent out there, but I think the lack of consistency probably reflects institutional issues. I'm seeing the same thing in the Southland. SFA, Texas State and Southeastern have all had three coaches in five years. Nicholls and McNeese have had mid-season coaching changes in the last 4-5 years. Sam Houston and Northwestern have both transitioned from long-time, venerable old coaches who were icons at their respective schools, to younger coaches. Northwestern's had two coaches since their guy retired 7-8 years ago and the current guy barely escaped getting fired this year. That would have added them to the three-coaches-in-short-order list.

I think you see the results of all that in the records of the SLC teams the last few years.

I don't know all the answers with the Big Sky, I just know that when I see those teams play, they're as talented as what I've seen from Georgia Southern, Delaware, Villanova, Youngstown, Maine, UMass, etc., over the years.

[McNeese_beat]

Don't forget about Montana and their stellar all-character team...then Montana States dealing earlier as well.

Maybe that ties in to what I was saying in my post above. The Big Sky teams tend to have a lot of imported players, guys from outside of what would probably be a financially reasonable area to recruit. If their recruiting budgets are anything like McNeese, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State, etc., don't have the money to let coaches spend the time in places like California to get to know high school coaches and their kids well enough to judge character.

So they are more likely to take a shot at kids where they haven't done adequate homework on the kid's background and his character and they're going on someone else's word. I've seen this happen in other sports at McNeese and it's always a little shaky. You have to ask yourself, why would an all-city guard from Chicago sign with McNeese state? (he has no work ethic and the Big 10 knows he's soft) or the top outfield prospect in British Columbia come to McNeese (he's lazy and his hitting mechanics are horrible) or Mr. Basketball in Iowa signs with UL-Lafayette (he loves the herb as much as Ricky Williams).

I think we've seen some of the that in the Big Sky. It's resulting in discipline problems and, aside from Montana, teams that struggle to play championship-caliber football CONSISTENTLY. NAU was great against McNeese, but they turned around and laid an egg at FAU. Montana State was very talented in 2002, but that team was something like 6-4 in the regular season. Why didn't they play like that all year?

[AZGrizFan]

Maybe that ties in to what I was saying in my post above. The Big Sky teams tend to have a lot of imported players, guys from outside of what would probably be a financially reasonable area to recruit. If their recruiting budgets are anything like McNeese, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State, etc., don't have the money to let coaches spend the time in places like California to get to know high school coaches and their kids well enough to judge character.

So they are more likely to take a shot at kids where they haven't done adequate homework on the kid's background and his character and they're going on someone else's word. I've seen this happen in other sports at McNeese and it's always a little shaky. You have to ask yourself, why would an all-city guard from Chicago sign with McNeese state? (he has no work ethic and the Big 10 knows he's soft) or the top outfield prospect in British Columbia come to McNeese (he's lazy and his hitting mechanics are horrible) or Mr. Basketball in Iowa signs with UL-Lafayette (he loves the herb as much as Ricky Williams).

I think we've seen some of the that in the Big Sky. It's resulting in discipline problems and, aside from Montana, teams that struggle to play championship-caliber football CONSISTENTLY. NAU was great against McNeese, but they turned around and laid an egg at FAU. Montana State was very talented in 2002, but that team was something like 6-4 in the regular season. Why didn't they play like that all year?

Oh, and besides that patssle is making a blatant generalization, characterizing the conduct of many based on the actions of a few. Other than that, he's right on the money. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[rancher griz]

The Big Sky has always had a solid nucleus. Some of the additions we've made have weakened the conference. Sac State has shown no interest in improving their football program. They have potential but haven't shown much progress. Northern Colorado for all I know could eventually become a solid program. But at this point they really drag down the conference. They have inferior facilities and struggle mightly with attendance. These 2 programs are years from building themselve programs that match the quality the Big Sky is used to seeing.

NDSU and SDSU on the other hand have shown the commitment to build consistently competitive programs. They feel that they'll be a force in the FCS for a long time. It's a shame that our commissioner was more concerned about geography than quality.

[patssle]

Oh, and besides that patssle is making a blatant generalization, characterizing the conduct of many based on the actions of a few. Other than that, he's right on the money. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

What the "few" have done leaves a mark. Its not like its been 1 or 2 rouge players gone bad...but SEVERAL. That shows theres something wrong going on up there that needs to change.

[twentythreeOh4]

CAA

'93 - 0
'94 - 0
'95 - 0 (BTW, Montana as NC)
'96 - 0 (BTW, Montana as runner up)
'97 - Delaware (L)
'98 - UMass (NC)
'99 - 0
'00 - Delaware (L), (BTW, Montana as runner up)
'01 - 0 (BTW, Montana as NC)
'02 - Villanova (L)
'03 - Delaware (NC)
'04 - W&M, JMU (NC), (BTW, Montana as runner up)
'05 - 0
'06 - UMass

So the score is CAA 8, Montana 5. :D

If you are counting semi-final appearances, Montana also went to the semi-finals in '94 and '06. So it's CAA 8, Montana 7. Counting E. Washington's semi-final in '97 puts it at CAA 8, Big Sky 8.

[DuckDuckGriz]

If you are counting semi-final appearances, Montana also went to the semi-finals in '94 and '06. So it's CAA 8, Montana 7. Counting E. Washington's semi-final in '97 puts it at CAA 8, Big Sky 8.

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[BearsCountry]

Why are they not reaching out to Idaho to try to bring them back to help strengthen the conference ?

If you think they are coming back then I got some ocean front property for sale here in Missouri.

[putter]

AGS posters think the Big Sky is weak? WHAT!! When did this happen? I have never heard even a whisper of dissention about the Big Sky.
89Hen, every once in a while, will pull some stats our of his feathers but that was all. Now Joe, pay more attention to Billings, Kusek hits hard with some investigative reporting and it all goes down hill....xsmhx

Oh well, GO CARROLL xthumbsupx

[DuckDuckGriz]

This is the same guy that said Dave Dickenson wouldn't do ***** in the CFL. xlolx

[McNeese_beat]

Dickenson is alright...he's no Kerry Joseph, of course, but he's all right...
xsmiley_wix

http://www.riderville.com/images/player_profile_action/4_kerry_joseph.jpg

http://www.winnipegsun.com/Sports/GreyCup2006/2006/11/14/pgs4.jpg

[JALMOND]

Nice to see Joey still trying to make a name for himself in that vast sports wasteland of Billings, Montana (and to think he's been trying for all these years). Joey has been locked up in a town where the only sporting events consist of 3 months of rookie league baseball, DII basketball and the weekly rodeo event somewhere in the vicinity and he's still trying to pass himself off as some sort of FCS expert. I have to say there are quite a few more people just on this site who's opinion I value more than "Mr. Kusek's".

I'd say the conference once again has shown how strong it is, even with the results from the playoffs this year. Montana took SoCon conference champion Wofford's best shot and it came down to a missed field goal as time ran out. Eastern Washington destroyed Southland champ McNeese State on the road and has shown that they have a great team this year, one that will be even better next year. Last year's Big Sky representatives in the playoffs, Montana and Montana State, both won in the first round and advanced.

Adding NDSU and UND would have strengthened the conference, but those schools are hardly a fit "geographically", unless you are in Billings. At the time, Bozeman was the furthest school east in the conference and also was the only school located east of the continental divide. Portland, naturally was, and still is, the furthest school west. It is roughly the same distance (750 miles) via driving from Bozeman to Fargo as it is to Portland. Adding just these two schools would have doubled the size of the conference and added to the travel woes of each and every school in the conference.

As I read the article, I do not really understand if it is about the conference as a whole or just lambasting the Griz schedule. But to say the Big Sky is not a premier FCS conference is flat wrong. Maybe Joey should add some sustanance to his arguements, but then again, that is something that Joey has had problems with in the past (and may explain why he is still trying to be so controversial in Billings, Montana). Write about something you do know, Joey. How about if those high-almighty YELLOW-JACKETS will win a conference game this year?

[WyomingGrizFan]

I don't read him, but I think it's MSU-Billings he thinks we should play every year.

And not only that, but to do so in Billings no less. Like what are they?....Division II?
According to him both UM and MSU would probably have to play every Montana school there is that's in the Frontier Conference, which is what?...NAIA?...in order to satisfy him. Why either mbb or wbb still schedule games with even a couple of them is really amazing at times. Exhibition games at that, at best, but for my money I wouldn't even bother. I'd rather play San Diego in football, and I think that would be a good game to go to besides. At least they're I-AA (oops, FCS).

[TokyoGriz]

My understanding is that NDSU had explored being in the big sky a few years ago and was turned down. They would have been a great addition to the conference in terms of quality team and great community support. The excuse that its too expensive to travel doesnt wash. A ticket for the team to go to Sacramento vs a ticket to Fargo isnt that big a price difference.

Anyone know for sure what the difference for an airplane ticket from Sac. to missoula vs Sac. to Fargo is in price? Probably not that much.

The big sky conference isnt truely a 1 team conference though. But based on the lack of support teams like Portland state and Eastern Washington have in generating community support in the home areas it seems like is.

OOC scheduling is an issue that the original writer may take in account in his article. With Montana dominating the Big Sky conference and adding seemily Cream Puff OCC games to make every year a cinderalla season. Its only been the last few years this lame scheduling has occured due to the budget deficit in the athletic department.

The deficits gone now, but the AD at Montana loves the huge increase in $$$$ from the home games with easy OOC opponents. Hence they will NOT recipricate games with OOC teams, only playing in Missoula.

Other Big Sky teams are still playing quality OOC games however. Wasnt EWU at appalachian state earlier this year? Think that helped them alot in the learning curve this year.

[biobengal]

A few short years ago, SDSU and NDSU would have done just about anything to join the Big Sky. Both schools sought admission. The Big Sky just turned their collective noses up at the possibility of the Jackrabbits and Bison joining.



"Turned their collective noses up".... xlolx xlolx xlolx Come on JD, tell the truth. SDSU and NDSU were not added exclusively for economic reasons. Care to move your campus to Cheyenne, Wy?

[Bison77]

"Turned their collective noses up".... xlolx xlolx xlolx Come on JD, tell the truth. SDSU and NDSU were not added exclusively for economic reasons. Care to move your campus to Cheyenne, Wy?

Yea how's that working out? xlolx I see the conference is loaning UNC money to stay afloat. xnodx

[Appaholic]

But I would put our top four against any top four in the country. I guess ignorance runs rampant east of the mississippi.

....as apparantly, delusions of grandeur run rampant west of the Mississippi....xcoffeex

[JackJD]

"Turned their collective noses up".... xlolx xlolx xlolx Come on JD, tell the truth. SDSU and NDSU were not added exclusively for economic reasons. Care to move your campus to Cheyenne, Wy?

I didn't specify a reason. In fact, I do not doubt there had to be serious economic issues. I was responding to the poster who suggested the Big Sky should now invite the XDSUs. My point: there's no way either NDSU or SDSU will leave the present situation to go to the Big Sky. In part, for the same economic reason (travel) biobengal mentioned. There was a time, three or four years ago, when NDSU and SDSU wanted to be in the Big Sky. They thought at the time it was the best place for them.

[EdubAlum]

who cares what people think of the Big Sky, let us prove it on the field.

[89Hen]

So the score is CAA 8, Montana 5. :D
Thanks for taking the time to prove my point. xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

Also, consider that with a dominant program like the Griz in the conference, it's that much more difficult for other BSC teams to win the conference title and host a playoff game. How many BSC teams have hosted playoff games since 1997, two? How many of those CAA that made at least the semi's were playing at home?
IMO the Griz are 'dominant' more in part due to the lack of challengers in the BSC. The CAA have won games at McNeese, AppSt, GSU, Montana, Furman... during the timeframe of which we are speaking. Delaware is really the only CAA that gets preferential treatment when it comes to home games. xpeacex

[89Hen]

I don't know all the answers with the Big Sky, I just know that when I see those teams play, they're as talented as what I've seen from Georgia Southern, Delaware, Villanova, Youngstown, Maine, UMass, etc., over the years.
Then they're wasting talent.

[89Hen]

let us prove it on the field.
xthumbsupx xbowx Best comment yet. xnodx

[Herdman]

Why are they not reaching out to Idaho to try to bring them back to help strengthen the conference ?Because Idaho is in the FBS WAC now. Once they did that they had to seperate themsleves from the ier old rivalries. I can see them playing Idaho State, but their old conference ties had to go.

[Herdman]

The article is also wrong that the SBC didn't go after NDSU and SDSU because they weren't ready to move up, that is a total out right lie. They had already made the move and were still in their transition period. The BSC didn't go after them because their members didn't want to expand to the east. They saw the writing on the wall with UND and USD and could have had them all if they wanted to. But instead the BSC took in Northern Colorado University who made the move to D1-AA/FCS after NDSU & SDSU and are still in transition mode and left the four Dakota schools out.

[DuckDuckGriz]

IMO the Griz are 'dominant' more in part due to the lack of challengers in the BSC. The CAA have won games at McNeese, AppSt, GSU, Montana, Furman... during the timeframe of which we are speaking. Delaware is really the only CAA that gets preferential treatment when it comes to home games. xpeacex

How in the world would lack of challenge in the BSC result in playoff success?

[lizrdgizrd]

Next year, the Gateway will be recognized as the top FCS conference in the country, no questions asked.
Really, no questions? xeyebrowx

[SactoHornetFan]

But I do think there is a lack of identity with the Big Sky teams. I don't know what Sacramento State's problem is, but it seems like you are sitting in the middle of a goldmine of talent out there in a state that doesn't have a lot of college football...plus you're a Cal State school and not a UC, so you shouldn't have as hard of a time getting them in school (or am I misunderstanding how it works out there?). So it's only a matter of time before circumstances — administrative support, the right coach — come together to take advantage.

And we now have a coach in Sperbeck that is going to get us there. Also, we have a new fieldhouse (the Broad Center) that will be completed in the spring. Here is a link to the video cam of its construction (scroll to the bottom cam) http://www.fm.csus.edu/Construction_Projects_Project_Web_Cams.htm

[McNeese_beat]

Then they're wasting talent.

I'd say they are. Of course, EWU pulls off an upset this weekend and that changes the whole perception. I don't think they are poorly coached, but a combination of circumstances — high numbers of transfers, relying on player who might not "believe" in the name on the chest — could lead to them not having the chemistry some other teams have.

Montana has all that. I think Western players respect the name Montana and in-state kids probably dream of playing for Montana. I doubt if you can say that for kids growing up wanting to be part of Sac State, Northern Colorado, PSU, etc. That's why PSU was so quick to go hire a name coach...

[McNeese_beat]

And we now have a coach in Sperbeck that is going to get us there. Also, we have a new fieldhouse (the Broad Center) that will be completed in the spring. Here is a link to the video cam of its construction (scroll to the bottom cam) http://www.fm.csus.edu/Construction_Projects_Project_Web_Cams.htm

I would think a key for him, with his JUCO background, is not to recruit the JUCOs, but to get the kids who are going to the jucos to go to Sac State instead...

I think it's tougher to win in football with players on a two-year cycle than it is in baseball or basketball. Football is a more complex game and what you want on the field are guys who have been in the program 3-4 years.

I notice you don't have an overwhelming number of junior college players on the roster right now, but you probably have more than a lot of teams in the eastern half of the country have, especially top teams.

[89Hen]

How in the world would lack of challenge in the BSC result in playoff success?
You make the playoffs enough times you're going to win some games. Half of the Griz's last 10 trips were first round exits. In some of those years I'm guessing that had the Griz not been in the BSC, they would have not made the playoffs in the first place. But that's speculation on my part. xpeacex

[89Hen]

You make the playoffs enough times you're going to win some games. Half of the Griz's last 10 trips were first round exits. In some of those years I'm guessing that had the Griz not been in the BSC, they would have not made the playoffs in the first place. But that's speculation on my part. xpeacex
For comparison sake, in the Hens last 10 trips they've only lost in the first round twice. I'm not saying that the Hens are better in the playoffs, but that in years when they're maybe not worthy of the playoffs, they miss it becasue they get beaten up in their conference. When the Griz have a substandard team (compared to other Griz teams) they still are able to make the playoffs thanks to nobody else really stepping up.

[SactoHornetFan]

I would think a key for him, with his JUCO background, is not to recruit the JUCOs, but to get the kids who are going to the jucos to go to Sac State instead...

I think it's tougher to win in football with players on a two-year cycle than it is in baseball or basketball. Football is a more complex game and what you want on the field are guys who have been in the program 3-4 years.

I notice you don't have an overwhelming number of junior college players on the roster right now, but you probably have more than a lot of teams in the eastern half of the country have, especially top teams.

Well he is putting an interest in keeping Sacramento and NorCal kids home to us. Mooshagian, our last coach, recruited the Fresno area heavily (that's where his hometown is). Before that, Volek recruited Sac and SoCal. You will always recruit SoCal because of how deep it is. Sperbeck is getting back to keeping kids home.

[uofmman1122]

I'd say they are. Of course, EWU pulls off an upset this weekend and that changes the whole perception. I don't think they are poorly coached, but a combination of circumstances — high numbers of transfers, relying on player who might not "believe" in the name on the chest — could lead to them not having the chemistry some other teams have.

Montana has all that. I think Western players respect the name Montana and in-state kids probably dream of playing for Montana. I doubt if you can say that for kids growing up wanting to be part of Sac State, Northern Colorado, PSU, etc. That's why PSU was so quick to go hire a name coach...You have a point with the other schools, but there are just as many kids here in Montana that dream of playing for Montana State, too. I think it has a lot to do with the kind of impact our two football programs have on the state.

[89Hen]

You make the playoffs enough times you're going to win some games. Half of the Griz's last 10 trips were first round exits. In some of those years I'm guessing that had the Griz not been in the BSC, they would have not made the playoffs in the first place. But that's speculation on my part. xpeacex


For comparison sake, in the Hens last 10 trips they've only lost in the first round twice. I'm not saying that the Hens are better in the playoffs, but that in years when they're maybe not worthy of the playoffs, they miss it becasue they get beaten up in their conference. When the Griz have a substandard team (compared to other Griz teams) they still are able to make the playoffs thanks to nobody else really stepping up.
Wow. I guess facts are sometimes thread killers. xcoffeex

[rancher griz]

Wow. I guess facts are sometimes thread killers. xcoffeex


I'm not going to say that those statements aren't true, but they are a reach. The BSC has not always been this weak. In fact in prior years it has been nearly as strong and in some years arguably as strong or stronger than the CAA. Also in years prior the Griz played very respectable non conference schedules. I don't think if the Griz were in a different conference they would have fewer playoff appearances. Maybe not 14 strait conference championships but they would have still made the playoffs every one of those years IMO. I'd find you hard pressed to call out any one of our teams in last decade and say they weren't playoff calibre.

[89Hen]

I don't think if the Griz were in a different conference they would have fewer playoff appearances.
We can stop discussing right now, because we will NEVER agree if this is the stance you are going to take. xpeacex

[uofmman1122]

We can stop discussing right now, because we will NEVER agree if this is the stance you are going to take. xpeacexRegardless of any argument for either conferences strength, it's flat out impossible to say with proof that the Griz would have as many or less playoff appearances. Impossible.

[89Hen]

Regardless of any argument for either conferences strength, it's flat out impossible to say with proof that the Griz would have as many or less playoff appearances. Impossible.
Regardless of facts from my side and theories on the other. xcoffeex

[rancher griz]

You could construe your facts in may different ways. One could make the argument that the Griz are more consistent and the Hens more volatile. Oh and my daddy can whup your daddy!

I won't be around to reply any more on this for a while. Will be on a horse moving cattle the next couple of days. No internet connection on horseback.

[89Hen]

You could construe your facts in may different ways. One could make the argument that the Griz are more consistent and the Hens more volatile.
No other team has made as many consecutive trips to the playoffs. Few premier teams have so many first round exits. No other teams in the Big Sky have made the semis in ten years. I guess you could take those facts however you want. I'd rather take them where they lead me.

[AZGrizFan]

Regardless of facts from my side and theories on the other. xcoffeex
Jesus, you're starting to sound eerily like he who shall not be named....*****.

[uofmman1122]

Regardless of facts from my side and theories on the other. xcoffeexWell, your's is still a theory, since the Griz don't play in the CAA, and it's impossible to say that in the last 15 or so years, the Griz would have faired the same, better, or worse. Also, it's kind of expected that a team with that many playoff appearances, who has only (only...HA~!) won two National Championships, would have a few first-round exits, no? The more times in the playoffs, the higher the chance that that team will lose in the first round. I have high standards for this team, but to imply that if Montana doesn't at least make it to the second round every year it means that the team is "sub-par" and that the Big Sky is weak?! Clearly. xrolleyesx

I guess what your argument comes down to is: "If Delaware was in the Big Sky, we'd have made the playoffs every year!!!1lol!" xthumbsupx

[Ivytalk]

If the Big Sky is no longer a premier conference, Allison Stokke is no longer hot.:)

[AZGrizFan]

No other team has made as many consecutive trips to the playoffs. Few premier teams have so many first round exits. No other teams in the Big Sky have made the semis in ten years. I guess you could take those facts however you want. I'd rather take them where they lead me.

to a preordained answer.... xcoolx ;)

[YoUDeeMan]

I can't believe it............... noone outside of Billings, MT bothers to read a Kuseck article, but the POS makes an AGS thread and the BS goes on for five pages.xoopsx

Let it die, the guy is an idiot.xnodx

This is nothing. Another POS named Pearlman had his brush with fame last a lot longer on here. xnodx

And he didn't provide any facts to back up his ASSertations. xnodx xlolx

xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex

[twentythreeOh4]

You make the playoffs enough times you're going to win some games. Half of the Griz's last 10 trips were first round exits. In some of those years I'm guessing that had the Griz not been in the BSC, they would have not made the playoffs in the first place. But that's speculation on my part. xpeacex

Doesn't the same thing apply to the CAA and the fact that it gets over twice as many teams in the playoffs as the Big Sky? Not to mention that the CAA gets WAY more home games, and WAY more games against non-seeded teams?

[twentythreeOh4]

You make the playoffs enough times you're going to win some games. Half of the Griz's last 10 trips were first round exits. In some of those years I'm guessing that had the Griz not been in the BSC, they would have not made the playoffs in the first place. But that's speculation on my part. xpeacex

BTW, 3 of UM's first round exits (2007 Wofford, 2003 WIU, 1999 YSU) came after UM missed makable FG's on the last play of the game that would have won or extended the game in overtime. I'm beginning to think UM has a playoff FG curse.

[blukeys]

Doesn't the same thing apply to the CAA and the fact that it gets over twice as many teams in the playoffs as the Big Sky? Not to mention that the CAA gets WAY more home games, and WAY more games against non-seeded teams?

Care to back up your assertions with actual facts???

1. The CAA got many teams in the playoffs THIS YEAR. Have you looked up the other years?
2. The CAA has gotten fewer home games than the other power conferences. Do you even do research?
3. The CAA played 2 games against seeded teams already this year!!!

Will you send me the stuff you have been drinking? It has to be 10 times better than mine as mine does not erase my memory.xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If the Big Sky is no longer a premier conference, Allison Stokke is no longer hot.:)

I was beginning to believe that the Big Sky was not a good conference anymore but once presented with Inytalk's logic I have changed my mind.

[kalm]

IMO the Griz are 'dominant' more in part due to the lack of challengers in the BSC. The CAA have won games at McNeese, AppSt, GSU, Montana, Furman... during the timeframe of which we are speaking. Delaware is really the only CAA that gets preferential treatment when it comes to home games. xpeacex

Well that's the popular opinion on this board. But until we have consistent head to head matchups both home and away we'll never know for sure. Again, I'll ask, how many CAA, Gateway, and SoCon teams have played on the road @ BSC schools in the past 10 years?

[blukeys]

I was beginning to believe that the Big Sky was not a good conference anymore but once presented with Inytalk's logic I have changed my mind.

Ivytalk is a dirty old man and a pervert (Of course I mean this in only in the kindest way with no disrespectxsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix )

He only wants to get Big Sky folks to sign off on his campaign to seduce Allison. I don't think it will work but if it does I will buy the first 100 copies of his book about womanizing!!!!!xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Ivytalk is a dirty old man and a pervert (Of course I mean this in only in the kindest way with no disrespectxsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix )

He only wants to get Big Sky folks to sign off on his campaign to seduce Allison. I don't think it will work but if it does I will buy the first 100 copies of his book about womanizing!!!!!xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

I would never trust a man without a libido. She is of legal age and I for one will sign off on his petition and join Bleukeys in a book buying frenzy.

[blukeys]

I would never trust a man without a libido. She is of legal age and I for one will sign off on his petition and join Bleukeys in a book buying frenzy.

If Ivytalk gets it done (I think he is married but this is a minor inconvinience for a Harvard gradxsmiley_wix xsmiley_wix ) then he will fulfill every Middle Age Man Fantasy that exists.

I definitely want the rights to the book and movie deal that will be forthcoming.

Otherwise, I want a shot at Allison after Ivytalk.

Business purposes only of course!

[89Hen]

The more times in the playoffs, the higher the chance that that team will lose in the first round. I have high standards for this team, but to imply that if Montana doesn't at least make it to the second round every year it means that the team is "sub-par" and that the Big Sky is weak?! Clearly. xrolleyesx
I was talking percentages. First round exits in last 10 appearances for some of the more prominent teams in I-AA:

McNeese 6 of 10
Montana 5 of 10
Furman 4 of 10
Northern Iowa 2 of 10
Delaware 2 of 10
Youngstown 2 of 10
Georgia Southern 2 of 10
Appalachian State 2 of 10

So other than McNeese (who interestingly the Big Sky fans complain about having to play them), Montana is up there in percentage of times out in the first round.

YET ANOTHER fact that I've given to show why I feel the way I do. I have seen nary a one given to refute it. Some of you even make crap up like saying the CAA gets so many home games. xlolx xsmhx

[89Hen]

Well that's the popular opinion on this board. But until we have consistent head to head matchups both home and away we'll never know for sure. Again, I'll ask, how many CAA, Gateway, and SoCon teams have played on the road @ BSC schools in the past 10 years?
Look up your own figures. :p FWIW, the Hens have never played a BSC team in the regular season, but I believe are 2-0 in the playoffs: PSU and @ Montana

[kalm]

EWU 1 of 4

(since 1997)

[kalm]

I was talking percentages. First round exits in last 10 appearances for some of the more prominent teams in I-AA:

McNeese 6 of 10
Montana 5 of 10
Furman 4 of 10
Northern Iowa 2 of 10
Delaware 2 of 10
Youngstown 2 of 10
Georgia Southern 2 of 10
Appalachian State 2 of 10

So other than McNeese (who interestingly the Big Sky fans complain about having to play them), Montana is up there in percentage of times out in the first round.

YET ANOTHER fact that I've given to show why I feel the way I do. I have seen nary a one given to refute it. Some of you even make crap up like saying the CAA gets so many home games. xlolx xsmhx

Fact: During their playoff streak, the Griz have won two NC's, and made five trips to the title game.

Fact: The big sky runner-up has won an opening round playoff game three out of the last four years (3/4 games being on the road).

Yes, Montana has made its share of early exits, but the above two facts would indicate that's a pretty weak argument concerning whether or not the BSC is still a premier conference.

Was the BSC stronger with Nevada, Boise St, and Idaho in it? Sure. Is the CAA a deeper conference now? Yes. But I would still consider the BSC a power conference, with one dominant program and 3 or 4 other solid programs who are perrennial playoff contenders.

[AZGrizFan]

I was talking percentages. First round exits in last 10 appearances for some of the more prominent teams in I-AA:

McNeese 6 of 10
Montana 5 of 10
Furman 4 of 10
Northern Iowa 2 of 10
Delaware 2 of 10
Youngstown 2 of 10
Georgia Southern 2 of 10
Appalachian State 2 of 10

So other than McNeese (who interestingly the Big Sky fans complain about having to play them), Montana is up there in percentage of times out in the first round.


YET ANOTHER fact that I've given to show why I feel the way I do. I have seen nary a one given to refute it. Some of you even make crap up like saying the CAA gets so many home games. xlolx xsmhx

How long has regionalization been around? xconfusedx

[89Hen]

How long has regionalization been around? xconfusedx
2001. 9/11 was the impetus and I guess the NCAA liked it.

[89Hen]

Fact: During their playoff streak, the Griz have won two NC's, and made five trips to the title game.

Fact: The big sky runner-up has won an opening round playoff game three out of the last four years (3/4 games being on the road).

Yes, Montana has made its share of early exits, but the above two facts would indicate that's a pretty weak argument concerning whether or not the BSC is still a premier conference.

Was the BSC stronger with Nevada, Boise St, and Idaho in it? Sure. Is the CAA a deeper conference now? Yes. But I would still consider the BSC a power conference, with one dominant program and 3 or 4 other solid programs who are perrennial playoff contenders.
First off, thanks for coming back with at least some facts.

However, IMO they only prove that Montana has a great program. The fact that no other Big Sky team has made the semis since 1997 tells me that the Big Sky is a second tier conference.

You say that they have 3 or 4 other solid programs... please list them and tell me why you consider them solid.

[AZGrizFan]

I was talking percentages. First round exits in last 10 appearances for some of the more prominent teams in I-AA:

McNeese 6 of 10
Montana 5 of 10
Furman 4 of 10
Northern Iowa 2 of 10
Delaware 2 of 10
Youngstown 2 of 10
Georgia Southern 2 of 10
Appalachian State 2 of 10



Delaware's last 10 appearances go all the way back to 1991. Northern Iowa's go back to 1990. Youngstown State and Furman have to go back to 1989 to get their 10 appearances.

First Round exits in last 10 YEARS

McNeese 6 of 7
Montana 5 of 10
Furman 4 of 7
Northern Iowa 0 of 4
Delaware 0 of 4
Youngstown State 1 of 3
Georgia Southern 2 of 7
App State 2 of 8

In the timespan that most of these teams have accomplished 10 appearances the Griz have gone 8 of 15 in first round victories. The three year period where I would agree you have an argument is 97-99, which were three consecutive first round losses by average Griz teams that were 8-3, 8-3, and 9-2. And only one of those was a home game ('99 loss to YSU).

No point. Just thought I'd throw some more stats out there. :D

[89Hen]

No point. Just thought I'd throw some more stats out there. :D
That's cool, but the reason I used appearances and not years is that it's my contention that the Griz would NOT have made the playoffs in some of the years in which they were first round victims had they been in a tougher conference. This was kinda my whole point of posting my stats. Only McNeese and Furman are close to the Griz's percentage on first round exits and NOBODY is anywhere remotely close to the number of consectutive appearances as the Griz.

We know the Griz have a great program, but based on all the numbers I've given (number of straight appearances, first round exits, no other BSC team in the semis in ten years....) all help support the position that the BSC is no longer a premier conference. xpeacex

[TwinTownBisonFan]

I have to agree with the Griz fans who said this guy is a complete moron.

That much is clear when he writes about NDSU and UND going D-1 together... since they very publicly didn't. If his point is that the BSC should have pursued the XDSU's, it happened... but the other way around.

The XDSU schools wanted to join Big Sky with the idea that UXD schools would follow on, they could rejoin with No. Colo, and reconstitute the D-II North Central Conference as a division of Big Sky. BSC balked for multiple reasons - moving the conference to the east, teaming up with 5 transition schools (very risky indeed), and lastly, competing with programs that had could potentially see quick success in the league.

In the end, I think that having the XDSU schools join Gateway and Summit League was the best thing that could happen to them. Geographically it makes more sense for everyone, and in terms of competition, I think both schools have proven they are ready for a major conference like Gateway.

As for the UXD's, perhaps the Big Sky will come calling for them, but I kind of doubt it. The travel problems are still very real for the Dakotas, If anything, I could see them staying in the GWFC for 5 years or more.

I think a discussion about whether the GWFC is a viable concept for a conference (so far flung in terms of membership), is one worth having. A realignment seems likely about 5-7 years from now that could dramatically alter the FCS landscape.

By the way, and this is a question I've wondered for awhile about Idaho: how does a school with a home stadium under 20k get to stay FBS? I didn't know they could do that. I think Indianapolis should start looking in to that kind of thing.

[AZGrizFan]

By the way, and this is a question I've wondered for awhile about Idaho: how does a school with a home stadium under 20k get to stay FBS? I didn't know they could do that. I think Indianapolis should start looking in to that kind of thing.

They use Martin Stadium (WSU Cougars) as their "home stadium"....it's about 7 miles away, just across the border in Washington. xeyebrowx xcoolx

[ucdtim17]

They use Martin Stadium (WSU Cougars) as their "home stadium"....it's about 7 miles away, just across the border in Washington. xeyebrowx xcoolx

I don't think they've played regular games there in a couple years. They play in the dome and don't make the 15k average - the NCAA doesn't enforce the rule so it doesn't matter