Speak of the Devil - FBS getting bored with bowls???

[DSUHornet]

i have been hearing alot of talk about this lately (most recently on last nights segment of PTI on ESPN; the FBS portion of DI is having more and more talk of adopting a playoff system. reasons behind this (aside from the obvious monetary pursuit) are that in years like this one, having one major bowl decide the national champion is very hard to do when there is inconsistancy at the 1,2,3 spots. this is the first year (to my knowledge) that they have categorized IA and IAA officially by FBS and FCS and they are looking like it will be two playoff systems in a near few years, as if the bowl weeks already dont steal enough shine from the FCS. how do you guys feel about this?

[Seawolf97]

That would be interesting. I watched the Colorado- Nebraska game on Thanksgiving and the eventual winner Colorado became Bowl eligable with a 6 and 6 record. If they went to a playoff system teams like this wouldnt even get consideration for a playoff spot.

[FCS Preview]

I think you might see some kind of hybrid system.
The 11 conference winners, plus 5 at-large make the playoffs.

The next-best 40 or so teams get invites to bowls. Kind of like the NIT.

[Poly Pigskin]

I think you might see some kind of hybrid system.
The 11 conference winners, plus 5 at-large make the playoffs.

The next-best 40 or so teams get invites to bowls. Kind of like the NIT.

That's the only realistic scenario, there is just too much money for them to scrap all of the bowls. I think a 16 team field might be too large, I think it's more likely for them to start with 8 (6 BCS conferences and 2 at large). The MAC champ has absolutely no business playing against an SEC team in the playoffs.

I don't think this is happening anytime soon though. I believe the current BCS contract runs through 2010, and I'm sure it will be extended again. There has been an outcry for a playoff every season since it started, and here they are a decade later with the same mess.

[APPride]

i have been hearing alot of talk about this lately (most recently on last nights segment of PTI on ESPN; the FBS portion of DI is having more and more talk of adopting a playoff system. reasons behind this (aside from the obvious monetary pursuit) are that in years like this one, having one major bowl decide the national champion is very hard to do when there is inconsistancy at the 1,2,3 spots. this is the first year (to my knowledge) that they have categorized IA and IAA officially by FBS and FCS and they are looking like it will be two playoff systems in a near few years, as if the bowl weeks already dont steal enough shine from the FCS. how do you guys feel about this?

this is the 2nd year, hence App State won the last ever 1-AA National Championship and the 1st ever FCS National Championship... xnodx

although I just remembered they didn't make the change in names until the playoffs?

[ASUMountaineer]

I think you might see some kind of hybrid system.
The 11 conference winners, plus 5 at-large make the playoffs.

The next-best 40 or so teams get invites to bowls. Kind of like the NIT.

I agree, I think that is how it would happen. You could even have the three of the current BCS bowls be used for the semis, if you didn't want to do home field throughout. I can hardly fathom how huge this would be--and how bad it would be for us. Right now the FCS is the only NCAA Division 1 National Title. We would hardly get any coverage if the FBS started their playoffs in the first part of December, which they most likely would have to do to avoid competing with the NFL playoffs in January.

[Thunderstruck84]

Here's my theory for a FBS playoff:

(1) Keep your 5 BCS bowls but invite that 10 teams who would be going to the BCS bowls into a playoff, the 6 major conferences get their autobid and there are 4 at large bids. The higher seeds would get the home field advantage.

(2) The top 6 teams get a bye in the first week and the bottom 4 play 2 playin type games. Then the next week they play 4 games to narrow it down to four teams. The next week they play 2 games to narrow it down to the final 2.

(3) Those top two teams play in the national title game and the other BCS bowls get their choice of the remaining 8 teams like they do it now.

This year it would work like this:
Dec. 8 - 2 first round games
Dec. 15 - 4 quarterfinals
Dec. 22 - 2 semifinals
Jan. 1-7 - BCS bowl games played as normal

I think this would be a good compromise, the traditionalists would get all of their bowls still (the lesser bowls would all remained unchanged) and the BCS bowl teams would all have a shot at the national title. On the other hand I'm sure the NCAA would be hesitant to allow a team to potentially play 16 games but that's what any playoff system would do.

[bkrownd]

Yawn either way. Without the real bowl traditions that they threw away a decade ago why care? It's just NFL-Lite - another silly television spectacle.

[Seven Would Be Nice]

That's the only realistic scenario, there is just too much money for them to scrap all of the bowls. I think a 16 team field might be too large, I think it's more likely for them to start with 8 (6 BCS conferences and 2 at large). The MAC champ has absolutely no business playing against an SEC team in the playoffs.

I don't think this is happening anytime soon though. I believe the current BCS contract runs through 2010, and I'm sure it will be extended again. There has been an outcry for a playoff every season since it started, and here they are a decade later with the same mess.

Thats the way I have thought it would go for a few years now.

Years like this when it seems like 3 out of the top5 lose each week, and teams in the top 5 aren't even going to their conference title games, are going to be downfall of the BCS. We can only hope.

[DSUHornet]

I think you might see some kind of hybrid system.
The 11 conference winners, plus 5 at-large make the playoffs.

The next-best 40 or so teams get invites to bowls. Kind of like the NIT.


i agree but i would just make it a 32-team field if it is going to be a hybird system.

[FightinBluHen51]

16 team field, 11 conference winners = auto bids, 5 at large.

Regional Brackets seeded 1-4 (much like NCAA BB tourny, yet more geographical in nature)

Higher seed hosts rounds 1 and 2

2 current BCS bowls get the semi-final games
1 current BCS bowl get's the final
The 1st 4 teams missing the playoff get the other 2 remaining BCS bowls

Still have all your toilet bowls but make revenue sharing a bit more even.

[travelinman67]

I think you might see some kind of hybrid system.
The 11 conference winners, plus 5 at-large make the playoffs.

The next-best 40 or so teams get invites to bowls. Kind of like the NIT.

Agreed. 32 team bracket would be a tough sell to the top conferences. This way, championship caliber stays together and the next 40 still get some bowl game gravy.

I don't agree taking away the "Bowl" money from the brackets will have an impact...the "Bowls" just become the quarters, semis and final: Same hype, same payout, just different name...

I do think, however, all 11 and 5 at large go in without conference weighting. Personally would love to see more "underdogs" get a chance to upset the "heavyweights" (i.e., Hawaii v Tennessee).

[MplsBison]

8 team field, 6 BCS winners plus 2 at larges that are determined via BCS style ranking including provisions that a non BCS conference champion ranked in the top whatever is automatically in.

Then keep the 32 bowls.

That's 72 teams in post season. Increase FBS membership cap to 144.



You're definitely not going to get more than an 8 team field.

[ucdtim17]

The Sun Belt (or MAC, or WAC, or CUSA, or usually MWC) does not deserve a spot ahead of the 2nd place Pac-10 or SEC team. There are 8-10 teams in those leagues better than the SBC champ. There shouldn't be any autobids in a perfect world, just take the best teams, but if there have to be any, it should obviously just be the BCS leagues

[OB55]

If this corporate sponsor bowl system is so great, and such a money maker, why do they go through the process of the NCAA basketball tournament, why does the NFL not adopt the opinion/big market bowl idea, and why does every other team sport in the world conduct an actual post season championship tournament? xconfusedxxconfusedxxconfusedx

These talking heads on TV, Herbstreit Et al, saying Bad Call, and Grandaddy Of 'Em All, and such.......................are anally retentive, and look like complete morons to me.

Guess I would rather they kept it the way it is, to give us who know better something to make fun of every year.

National Championship game my azz.

[MplsBison]

The Sun Belt (or MAC, or WAC, or CUSA, or usually MWC) does not deserve a spot ahead of the 2nd place Pac-10 or SEC team. There are 8-10 teams in those leagues better than the SBC champ. There shouldn't be any autobids in a perfect world, just take the best teams, but if there have to be any, it should obviously just be the BCS leagues


What if a WAC or MWC champion is ranked ahead of a BCS champion?


Take this season, for example. Had UConn beaten West Virginia for the Big East championship and lets say Hawaii beats Washington this Sat., I could very well see Hawaii being ranked ahead of UConn this Sun.



I would think that any non BCS champion ranked ahead of a BCS champion would get an automatic at large.



Obviously that leaves the possibility that more than 2 non BCS champions could end up ranked ahead of a BCS champion.

[FCS Preview]

The Sun Belt (or MAC, or WAC, or CUSA, or usually MWC) does not deserve a spot ahead of the 2nd place Pac-10 or SEC team. There are 8-10 teams in those leagues better than the SBC champ. There shouldn't be any autobids in a perfect world, just take the best teams, but if there have to be any, it should obviously just be the BCS leagues
The BCS Leagues don't need an AQ. They will make the playoffs regardless. This year it didn't matter if UMass or Richmond got the CAA AQ, they were both making the playoffs. It's your one-bid leagues that need the AQs.

[ucdtim17]

What if a WAC or MWC champion is ranked ahead of a BCS champion?


Take this season, for example. Had UConn beaten West Virginia for the Big East championship and lets say Hawaii beats Washington this Sat., I could very well see Hawaii being ranked ahead of UConn this Sun.



I would think that any non BCS champion ranked ahead of a BCS champion would get an automatic at large.



Obviously that leaves the possibility that more than 2 non BCS champions could end up ranked ahead of a BCS champion.


Then they should get in and the low ranked Big East or ACC champ shouldn't. Or ideally, just the highest ranked teams get in. It's not that complicated. Unfortunately the BCS leagues control everything and if there are going to be autobids, the champs of those leagues are much more often than not going to be higher ranked than the champs of the other leagues

[UAalum72]

11 conference autos with 5 at-large, or 6 BCS conferences plus 2 at-large - both violate the NCAA rule of no more than half the field getting autos. Either it's a playoff outside the NCAA, or they make an exception to the rule - and we all know which FCS leagues have been told THAT can't happen.

[ucdtim17]

The BCS Leagues don't need an AQ. They will make the playoffs regardless. This year it didn't matter if UMass or Richmond got the CAA AQ, they were both making the playoffs. It's your one-bid leagues that need the AQs.

Well the point is that the Sun Belt and the MAC should be zero bid leagues unless they put a team in the top 8 (or 12 or 16 . . . ). The highest ranked SBC team now is #45 and the highest ranked MAC team is 69 according to Sagarin. Just because you are the best of a crappy group of teams that plays each other doesn't mean you deserve a shot to play for a national title

[ucdtim17]

The bar is set at the correct point now for non-BCS teams getting into the BCS. No reason it should be different in a playoff system

[dgreco]

i think a playoff would work.

Talked about on yahoo.com
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=AjcmzwfkeuYpEtBvuHHXAio5nYcB?slug=dw-playoff112707&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


here is the bracket.
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/tools/med/2007/11/ipt/1196153818.jpg

[Poly Pigskin]

11 conference autos with 5 at-large, or 6 BCS conferences plus 2 at-large - both violate the NCAA rule of no more than half the field getting autos. Either it's a playoff outside the NCAA, or they make an exception to the rule - and we all know which FCS leagues have been told THAT can't happen.

The BCS is currently outside of the NCAA, and I'm sure any future system would remain outside for financial reasons.

[BearsCountry]

16 team playoff with all the conference champions would be the only way to work it legally. Plus in all reality its the current BCS system if you really think about it. 6 BCS conference champs plus 4 at larges. They would basically be gaining one at large. In theory all BCS conferences would get 2 at large bids expect one, now its all but 2.

[FCS Preview]

Well the point is that the Sun Belt and the MAC should be zero bid leagues unless they put a team in the top 8 (or 12 or 16 . . . ). The highest ranked SBC team now is #45 and the highest ranked MAC team is 69 according to Sagarin. Just because you are the best of a crappy group of teams that plays each other doesn't mean you deserve a shot to play for a national title
As opposed to the crappy leagues that get AQ's to the BB tournaments? Does the NEC or America East representative have a chance to win the whole thing? Or a 3-27 team that gets lucky for three days in March to claim it's league's AQ?

[ucdtim17]

As opposed to the crappy leagues that get AQ's to the BB tournaments? Does the NEC or America East representative have a chance to win the whole thing? Or a 3-27 team that gets lucky for three days in March to claim it's league's AQ?

Once again, football is not basketball. You can't just play an extra game to give the little guys a shot

[BearsCountry]

Once again, football is not basketball. You can't just play an extra game to give the little guys a shot

Those leagues would sue big time if they didnt get a shot.

[FCS Preview]

Once again, football is not basketball. You can't just play an extra game to give the little guys a shot
Why not? Every other division of NCAA football plays at least 4 rounds of the playoffs.
Since someone pointed out at least 1/2 of berths must be reserved for at-large teams, I'd love to see something radical -- give the AQ's to the non-BCS leagues (5) and the 11 at-large berths go to the next 11 teams in the BCS standings.

Every team currently leading their BCS conference would make the playoffs except for Tennessee. But if the Volunteers beat LSU, they would move up at least three spots and knock out BC. You would have:

Missouri vs Central Michigan
W. Virginia vs Troy
Ohio State vs Central Florida
Georgia vs BYU
Kansas vs Hawaii
Virginia Tech vs Florida** (switched with Boston College)
LSU vs Boston College** (switched with Florida)
Southern Cal vs Oklahoma

You could even leave 8 at-large berths to the Top 8 BCS teams, and three Wild-Cards at the committee's discretion, in case a conference champion is not in the Top 8 of the BCS.

I know this will never happen, but it would be interesting. :)

[Thunderstruck84]

11 conference autos with 5 at-large, or 6 BCS conferences plus 2 at-large - both violate the NCAA rule of no more than half the field getting autos. Either it's a playoff outside the NCAA, or they make an exception to the rule - and we all know which FCS leagues have been told THAT can't happen.
I don't see how that can be a NCAA rule, the preeminent tournament in the NCAA, the D1 men's basketball tournament has 34 autos and 31 at larges. Same with the women's tournament.

[FCS Preview]

I don't see how that can be a NCAA rule, the preeminent tournament in the NCAA, the D1 men's basketball tournament has 34 autos and 31 at larges. Same with the women's tournament.

Other way around. There are currently 31 conferences.

ACC
America East
Atlantic 10
Atlantic Sun
Big 12
Big East
Big Sky
Big South
Big Ten
Big West
Colonial Athletic
Conference USA
Horizon League
Ivy League
MAAC
MEAC
Mid-American
Missouri Valley
Mountain West
Northeast
Ohio Valley
Pac 10
Patriot League
Southeastern
Southern
Southland
Summit League
Sun Belt
SWAC
West Coast
Western Athletic

[Thunderstruck84]

Those leagues would sue big time if they didnt get a shot.
And no one would care, the MAC and Sun Belt have no pull with the NCAA, the 6 power conferences have enormous pull and if they ever went to a playoff those conferences would demand an auto bid for their champion but want to keep the playoffs as small as possible. I'm sure the leauges like the Great West, Big South, and Northeast would love to have autobids to the FCS playoffs but it won't happen.

If the little guys like the WAC or the MWC had any pull with the NCAA, the FBS would already have a playoff because as it stands teams in those conferences have no chance at an NC and that's the way the power conferences like it. It's easier to win a national title when only 65 teams have a shot as opposed to 120.

[Thunderstruck84]

Other way around. There are currently 31 conferences.

Ah I see, thanks for setting me straight.xthumbsupx

[FCS Preview]

And no one would care, the MAC and Sun Belt have no pull with the NCAA, the 6 power conferences have enormous pull and if they ever went to a playoff those conferences would demand an auto bid for their champion but want to keep the playoffs as small as possible. I'm sure the leauges like the Great West, Big South, and Northeast would love to have autobids to the FCS playoffs but it won't happen.
If the playoffs expand to 18 teams as rumored, the NEC could get an AQ. And if it gets to 24...you could see the Big South and Great West (if they ever get 6 teams together for the requisite amount of time) as well. Who knows, they might even throw the PFL a bone too. ;)

[MplsBison]

Then they should get in and the low ranked Big East or ACC champ shouldn't.

No, that's not going to get done.


The BCS champs at a minimum would have to have AQs.

[MplsBison]

i think a playoff would work.

Talked about on yahoo.com
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=AjcmzwfkeuYpEtBvuHHXAio5nYcB?slug=dw-playoff112707&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


here is the bracket.
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/tools/med/2007/11/ipt/1196153818.jpg


16 is too many and the BCS conferences are not going to give AQs to the non BCS conferences.


If a non BCS conference champion is ranked higher than a BCS conference champion or is ranked higher than some number is about the only way I can see them getting an AQ to any playoff.

[BearsCountry]

And no one would care, the MAC and Sun Belt have no pull with the NCAA, the 6 power conferences have enormous pull and if they ever went to a playoff those conferences would demand an auto bid for their champion but want to keep the playoffs as small as possible. I'm sure the leauges like the Great West, Big South, and Northeast would love to have autobids to the FCS playoffs but it won't happen.

If the little guys like the WAC or the MWC had any pull with the NCAA, the FBS would already have a playoff because as it stands teams in those conferences have no chance at an NC and that's the way the power conferences like it. It's easier to win a national title when only 65 teams have a shot as opposed to 120.

They have some pull, they brought a lawsuit on already that got them in the position to be included into the BCS. Tulane & BYU started it up and thus got the top 12 ranking system into it and caused for the new national championship game basically.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

I think you might see some kind of hybrid system.
The 11 conference winners, plus 5 at-large make the playoffs.

The next-best 40 or so teams get invites to bowls. Kind of like the NIT.

11+5 always made sense to me. But I like the idea of also forcing all conferences to have an equal number of teams (12) and a conference championship game. That would mean FBS conferences would add 16 current FCS teams (BE+4, P10+2, BTen+1, SB+3, MWC+3, WAC+3), giving them a shot at a national title.

Even better would be a clearer merging of the two divisions. A playoff with 28 teams could allow full conference upgrades for the CAA, Big Sky, SoCon, Gateway and Southland conferences with play-in games to determine who plays the #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 seeds.

[ucdtim17]

Those leagues would sue big time if they didnt get a shot.

They can sue all they want, there's no legal requirement for the NCAA to give them autobids

[ucdtim17]

Why not?

Because the only way this is ever going to happen is if it's with the minimum amount of change from the status quo. Presidents already are fighting tooth and nail against a +1 system. No one is going to agree to adding 3-4 games a year. The BCS championship game is a good first step (matching 1 vs. 2) - next up is a +1

[ucdtim17]

No, that's not going to get done.


The BCS champs at a minimum would have to have AQs.

Well what are we talking about, what we'd like if we were in charge, or what realistically might happen? Realistically, the BCS leagues will insist on autobids similar to the current system. If I were in charge, there would be no autobids and I'd take the top 8 teams in the BCS standings

[MplsBison]

I was talking about what is realistic.


IMO, the best we can shoot for is turning the BCS championship game into an 8 team play off (BCS champions AQ and 2 at large with provisions for non BCS champion AQ and obviously Notre Dame provisions) and keeping the rest of the 32 bowls.

[MplsBison]

Also note that you're going to have to have huge payouts for making it to the playoffs.


Currently the payouts for the BCS bowls are 17 million.


So you're going to have to offer at least that for making it to the semi finals of the BCS championship.


Then perhaps even more money after that for making it further.

[OB55]

Also note that you're going to have to have huge payouts for making it to the playoffs.


Currently the payouts for the BCS bowls are 17 million.


So you're going to have to offer at least that for making it to the semi finals of the BCS championship.


Then perhaps even more money after that for making it further.

Chicken feed IMO, TV/Ad sales would go through the roof, would become the biggest events of the year in short order, games would be sellouts, and teams playing for the right to advance would bring their best game. Also would eliminate the up to 30 day lay-off period currently common in the bowl system, they would be sharp not rusty.

Worse thing about the bogus bowl system to me is that not everyteam really shows up to play their best game, they are there to party-a lot of them. Some are disappointed with the bowl/opponent they drew and just try to mail in their effort. Many times the games do not come close to selling out.

You would have none of that crap when everybody is playing to advance, for a chance to win the real national championship. I think these things will ultimately come to pass, just takes time.

Unfortunately for past "national championship" teams, they then will earn an * xnodx

[CollegeSportsInfo]

Well what are we talking about, what we'd like if we were in charge, or what realistically might happen? Realistically, the BCS leagues will insist on autobids similar to the current system. If I were in charge, there would be no autobids and I'd take the top 8 teams in the BCS standings

Sadly, you're probably right. Only the 6 BCS conferences would get autobids and even at 16 teams, would be 10 at-large, likely to follow the same rules as now (top 12 BCS ranking for non-BCS conference = bid)

[FCS Preview]

Chicken feed IMO, TV/Ad sales would go through the roof, would become the biggest events of the year in short order, games would be sellouts, and teams playing for the right to advance would bring their best game. Also would eliminate the up to 30 day lay-off period currently common in the bowl system, they would be sharp not rusty.

Worse thing about the bogus bowl system to me is that not everyteam really shows up to play their best game, they are there to party-a lot of them. Some are disappointed with the bowl/opponent they drew and just try to mail in their effort. Many times the games do not come close to selling out.

You would have none of that crap when everybody is playing to advance, for a chance to win the real national championship. I think these things will ultimately come to pass, just takes time.

Unfortunately for past "national championship" teams, they then will earn an * xnodx

Part of the problem might be the payouts. Right now, the bowl games pay the money. In a playoff it would be the NCAA. To get all 16 teams to go for it, rather than playing in a lesser bowl game, you'd need to make the payout a couple of million dollars in the first round. Problem is, what about a team that could make a non-BCS bowl under this system, with a $5M payout? Do you make the first round a $5m guarantee?

That's $80M

What's the 2nd round payout? Do you give $5M per team per game? That would be $150M in payouts by the NCAA.

[813Jag]

Part of the problem might be the payouts. Right now, the bowl games pay the money. In a playoff it would be the NCAA. To get all 16 teams to go for it, rather than playing in a lesser bowl game, you'd need to make the payout a couple of million dollars in the first round. Problem is, what about a team that could make a non-BCS bowl under this system, with a $5M payout? Do you make the first round a $5m guarantee?

That's $80M

What's the 2nd round payout? Do you give $5M per team per game? That would be $150M in payouts by the NCAA.
It's all about the $$$. Think about the money the Vandy's, the Baylor's, and the Duke's get from Bowl Games. Alot of schools don't want to lose that money.
Some teams will mail it in tournaments, if they don't get the seed they wanted, it happens. A playoff won't solve that. I think the main problem with Bowls is that there are too many.

[UNCBears2010]

Why can't the NCAA just learn from their basketball tournament. I know this will never happen, but listen to the logic to the playoff I'm running on Xbox.xthumbsupx The NCAA basketball tourney has 65 teams, or roughly 20 percent of D1 teams, if you take 20 percent of FBS football teams, you get a 24 team field, with 11 AQs and 13 at-larges. Here's how the schedule would work:

December 8-Round 1 (Home Sites)
December 15-Round 2 (Home Sites)
December 22-Quarterfinals (Home Sites)
January 1 (to keep New Year's a big day for college football)-Semifinals (Home Sites)
January 8-National Championship (New Orleans in '08 and rotating among BCS Bowl sites)

It would be in effect combining March Madness and the lower division football systems. Other than the fact that the NCAA is run by idiots, why wouldn't this work?

[MplsBison]

Part of the problem might be the payouts. Right now, the bowl games pay the money. In a playoff it would be the NCAA. To get all 16 teams to go for it, rather than playing in a lesser bowl game, you'd need to make the payout a couple of million dollars in the first round. Problem is, what about a team that could make a non-BCS bowl under this system, with a $5M payout? Do you make the first round a $5m guarantee?

That's $80M

What's the 2nd round payout? Do you give $5M per team per game? That would be $150M in payouts by the NCAA.

If the BCS championship game and its 17 million payout can be sponsored by Alltel, then I see no reason why an 8 game playoff couldn't also have a sponsor or several sponsors.


The TV contract would likely be huge as well. CBS paid a billion for March Madness, didn't they?

[brownbear]

If the BCS championship game and its 17 million payout can be sponsored by Alltel, then I see no reason why an 8 game playoff couldn't also have a sponsor or several sponsors.


The TV contract would likely be huge as well. CBS paid a billion for March Madness, didn't they?

$6 billion for 11 years

[BearsCountry]

Seriousally I think the 16 team, 11 champs plus 5 autobids work the best. Plus you would have to keep the BCS sites invovled.

Keep the 4 BCS sites plus add 2 sites. Keep the roating championship thing. First round games on campus then go on the road for the quarters, semifinals, and championship game.

For this year, the quarterfinal sites would be:
Dallas
New Orleans
Atlanta
Phoenix

Semi-Finals:
Pasadena
Miami

National Championship:
New Orleans

BCS bowl folks would keep big games in their city, the BCS conferences would still have the same amount of bids they do now plus 1 more auto bid actually, and the non-BCS conferences champions would have their shot at the national championship. Plus the other bowl games will still have attractive teams available for picking.

[MplsBison]

Gah...

why do all of you who are in favor of 16 teams insist on all 5 non BCS champions having AQ's?


Never happen in a million years.

[BearsCountry]

Gah...

why do all of you who are in favor of 16 teams insist on all 5 non BCS champions having AQ's?

Never happen in a million years.

BC that is the only way it would happen, and those 5 conferences would sue the crap out if they werent involved. Its how the got a bid now in the current BCS and if they werent included in a playoff it would get real messy in court.

[ucdtim17]

BC that is the only way it would happen, and those 5 conferences would sue the crap out if they werent involved. Its how the got a bid now in the current BCS and if they werent included in a playoff it would get real messy in court.

They can sue all they want, as I already mentioned in this thread - the NCAA (and BCS leagues) has no legal requirement to give them autobids

[ucdtim17]

I don't know how any thinking person could advocate giving the Sun Belt, MAC, or CUSA champs an autobid. That's a lot more unfair to better teams in BCS leagues than the other way around - don't give them autobids and make them be ranked in the top 8 (or 16) to get in.

[brownbear]

I don't know how any thinking person could advocate giving the Sun Belt, MAC, or CUSA champs an autobid. That's a lot more unfair to better teams in BCS leagues than the other way around - don't give them autobids and make them be ranked in the top 8 (or 16) to get in.

If they are undefeated or have one loss, then they will be ranked. If they are a three or four or even a five loss team, they definitely shouldn't make the playoffs.

[ucdtim17]

If they are undefeated or have one loss, then they will be ranked. If they are a three or four or even a five loss team, they definitely shouldn't make the playoffs.

Correct. The bar is at the right level right now. Schools need to go undefeated if they play a weak schedule. Utah did it, Boise did it and Hawaii should do it this year (they're deservedly questionable because they scheduled 2 weak FCS teams and have struggled against weak teams - even with that, it still looks like they're going to make it)

[BearsCountry]

If we are having a playoff then why not include all the CHAMPIONS of their conferences. All other sports do save FCS football, which we know the reasons why the other leagues dont have the autobids.

[brownbear]

If we are having a playoff then why not include all the CHAMPIONS of their conferences. All other sports do save FCS football, which we know the reasons why the other leagues dont have the autobids.

Yes, they are the exact same reasons why PFL teams don't get in the FCS playoffs as four or five loss teams from the Sun Belt wouldn't get in the FBS playoffs.

[BearsCountry]

Yes, they are the exact same reasons why PFL teams don't get in the FCS playoffs as four or five loss teams from the Sun Belt wouldn't get in the FBS playoffs.

Please, while the Sun Belt isnt as talented, they give out the 85 scholarships just like the BCS boys do that. That is a huge difference than what the PFL does compared to the other FCS schools.

[ucdtim17]

Please, while the Sun Belt isnt as talented, they give out the 85 scholarships just like the BCS boys do that. That is a huge difference than what the PFL does compared to the other FCS schools.

No, that's not a reason to give them an autobid. This is kind of a serious deal - you can't just hand out autobids to little guys because they give out the same number of schollies

[MplsBison]

BC that is the only way it would happen, and those 5 conferences would sue the crap out if they werent involved. Its how the got a bid now in the current BCS and if they werent included in a playoff it would get real messy in court.

Like I said, there would be some provision whereby a non BCS champion could get an AQ if it were ranked above some number or if it were ranked higher than a BCS champion.


That's what they currently have in the BCS system and that's about all they're going to get.

[MplsBison]

If we are having a playoff then why not include all the CHAMPIONS of their conferences.

Because not all conferences are the same strength, obviously.


Don't you think it would be convenient if Michigan started a new conference that was Michigan, Eastern Mich, Western Mich, Central Mich, Toledo, Bowling Green, Northern Illinois, and Buffalo and then demanded that the champion had an AQ?

[MplsBison]

Please, while the Sun Belt isnt as talented, they give out the 85 scholarships just like the BCS boys do that. That is a huge difference than what the PFL does compared to the other FCS schools.

Actually, the scholarship minimum in FBS is 77.


And look at coaching salaries or just budgets in general in the Sun Belt and MAC. They're not even a speck compared to the BCS teams.

[BearsCountry]

Might as well kick half of D1 schools out of all sports using your guys logic then.

[HIU 93]

i have been hearing alot of talk about this lately (most recently on last nights segment of PTI on ESPN; the FBS portion of DI is having more and more talk of adopting a playoff system. reasons behind this (aside from the obvious monetary pursuit) are that in years like this one, having one major bowl decide the national champion is very hard to do when there is inconsistancy at the 1,2,3 spots. this is the first year (to my knowledge) that they have categorized IA and IAA officially by FBS and FCS and they are looking like it will be two playoff systems in a near few years, as if the bowl weeks already dont steal enough shine from the FCS. how do you guys feel about this?

As long as universities are recieving packages in excess of $20,000,000 per team for BCS bowls, the system will never change.

[brownbear]

Might as well kick half of D1 schools out of all sports using your guys logic then.

No, it's not about kicking out half of the teams in DI. We're saying that teams should be at least ranked in the top 12 or 16 to make a tournament of the top 8 teams. Would you give a bid to a three loss champion from a lower conference over a three loss, third place team from a BCS conference?

[MplsBison]

As long as universities are recieving packages in excess of $20,000,000 per team for BCS bowls, the system will never change.

But what if what we're suggesting is to keep the bowls and their payouts and then simply expand the BCS championship game into, instead of only a single game, a series of 7 games to determine a champion from 8 teams?

[BearsCountry]

No, it's not about kicking out half of the teams in DI. We're saying that teams should be at least ranked in the top 12 or 16 to make a tournament of the top 8 teams. Would you give a bid to a three loss champion from a lower conference over a three loss, third place team from a BCS conference?

If you are doing a 8 team tournament, yes, but if you go 16 then include all the champions.

[MplsBison]

Well I guarantee that it won't be more than 8 teams.

[Thunderstruck84]

Well I guarantee that it won't be more than 8 teams.
Why not all 10 schools who currently receive BCS bids? There's nothing wrong with making the 4 lowest seeded teams play an extra game and rewarding the top 6 with a bye, that way all the BCS bowls would remain intact. Play 3 weeks of playoffs to determine the two teams in the title game and the other 8 would recieve their respective BCS bowl invitations as normal.

[MplsBison]

No, the bowls will stay intact exactly as they are now.

All 32 of them (or whatever it is).


Then, on top of that, you're talking about an 8 or 16 team playoff (which is why 8 is so much more feasible).

[ucdtim17]

If you are doing a 8 team tournament, yes, but if you go 16 then include all the champions.

No, because that's patently stupid. You'll get teams that are ranked 30-60 or worse from the lower conferences. Just because 8 crappy teams get together to form a conference does not mean that their champion deserves to play for a national championship

[MplsBison]

Well, let's just say that 8 teams is the only way it's going to happen anyway. That takes care of that issue.


And it really shouldn't be more than that.

If you play a good regular season, you have a chance to be one of the 8 teams selected.

[BearsCountry]

No, because that's patently stupid. You'll get teams that are ranked 30-60 or worse from the lower conferences. Just because 8 crappy teams get together to form a conference does not mean that their champion deserves to play for a national championship

Whats the difference between that and all of the other sports the NCAA sponsors?

[ucdtim17]

Whats the difference between that and all of the other sports the NCAA sponsors?

Because this is FOOTBALL, which is different than all the other sports. What other sports have 11 game schedules with one game a week and the kind of physical impact football has?

Not to mention the nightmare logistics of having 6 days notice several weeks in a row to arrange the teams and thousands of fans in multiple stadiums. It's a very different animal even than FCS

[brownbear]

Whats the difference between that and all of the other sports the NCAA sponsors?

In basketball, 64 teams make the tournament, so it makes sense for all conference champions to make the tournament. In football, it would make sense maybe in a tournament of 20 or 24 teams, but not in a 16 team tourney.

[BearsCountry]

In basketball, 64 teams make the tournament, so it makes sense for all conference champions to make the tournament. In football, it would make sense maybe in a tournament of 20 or 24 teams, but not in a 16 team tourney.

If you do the math it would be close to the same percentage for both sports compared to how many are in it. With football having a lower percentage than basketball

65/340 = 19.1%
16/120 = 13.3%