Who can be the next FCS program to exit from the subdivision by dropping football?

[bonarae]

We all know about App, Sam, Marshall, etc, who all exited our beloved subdivision by moving up to the lower tier of FBS. How about discussing who would be the next Jacksonville, Northeastern or Hofstra? Is it happening anytime soon?

My original topic on this is on our FCS Smack forum here.


I'm looking at several PFL teams and Georgetown, though any perpetually struggling FCS team might fit my case here. xpeacex

There are times when football is no longer feasible just like Jacksonville had studied "carefully". But why was the term quoted? The administration there mishandled it...

What's your take on these perpetually struggling teams with no light in the tunnel? xchinscratchx

[Go...gate]

Tough topic. I don't believe Georgetown is going away.

Any thoughts on a school or that might start or resume football or step up to the FCS level?

[FUBeAR]

If Presbyterian just hadn’t hired their new President from Mercer, where she had an opportunity to experience firsthand the transformational ways Football can contribute to a smaller private school, FUBeAR woulda put the Blue Ho’s at the top of this list. Would still have them in the Top 5…although, TBH, no guesses who the other 4 on the list would be.

Much more generally speaking, would always look to PFL School 1st, followed by smaller schools in the high-cost northeast - whichever schools fit under that umbrella.

Stepping up - could see Valdosta State (D2 in GA), Reinhardt (NAIA in GA), West Florida (D2 in, surprisingly enough, FL), Wingate (D2 in SC), Anderson (2024 D2 Start-up in SC / Bobby Lamb is HC), Lenoir-Rhyne (D2 in NC) making efforts to move up. Heard the CAA had offered membership to all 6 already.

[hebmskebm]

Would still have them in the Top 5…although, TBH, no guesses who the other 4 on the list would be.

A few others besides Presby on my top 5 list, for various reasons:

Morehead State
Portland State
Western Illinois
Duquesne

[TribeNomad1]

If Presbyterian just hadn’t hired their new President from Mercer, where she had an opportunity to experience firsthand the transformational ways Football can contribute to a smaller private school, FUBeAR woulda put the Blue Ho’s at the top of this list. Would still have them in the Top 5…although, TBH, no guesses who the other 4 on the list would be.

Much more generally speaking, would always look to PFL School 1st, followed by smaller schools in the high-cost northeast - whichever schools fit under that umbrella.

Stepping up - could see Valdosta State (D2 in GA), Reinhardt (NAIA in GA), West Florida (D2 in, surprisingly enough, FL), Wingate (D2 in SC), Anderson (2024 D2 Start-up in SC / Bobby Lamb is HC), Lenoir-Rhyne (D2 in NC) making efforts to move up. Heard the CAA had offered membership to all 6 already.


xlolx

[ElCid]

As the cost of college is out of control, and admissions are in decline in many schools, it will only take a bean-counting, football hating, or at least one that is indifferent, administrator to justify its elimination at a school that is struggling with admissions and finances. So that is probably the combo to look for.

I suspect small private or small public to more easily fit that bill. Probably in the NE, west coast, or Illinois with its various directional schools all competing with each other for students and funding. But could happen anywhere to any size school given the right circumstances. Even in the SE. Look at ETSU.

[SeattleCat]

Eastern Washington and Portland struggle every year to get a budget, Sometimes Portland can't even get a field.

[taper]

Watch out for the Johnson v NCAA lawsuit. It's probably going to require student athletes to be treated as school employees and paid a wage. Whether you want this to happen is for another thread, but the Patriot League has already said they'd drop sports before paying athletes. Probably dozens of D1 programs that couldn't afford it even if they wanted to.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Watch out for the Johnson v NCAA lawsuit. It's probably going to require student athletes to be treated as school employees and paid a wage. Whether you want this to happen is for another thread, but the Patriot League has already said they'd drop sports before paying athletes. Probably dozens of D1 programs that couldn't afford it even if they wanted to.

Depending on the ruling, this will go well beyond just athletics. Academic work is just that, work! Regular students, especially those from disadvantaged backgrounds, will start voicing the inequalities which exist in the world of tangible/intangible financial equity. Especially, when considering the time students must allocate to complete required WORK such as an exam, put forth a presentation, study, attend class, write papers, off campus requirements etc. The non-profit model for higher education could be a thing of the past. At some point, colleges and universities won't be admitting students. They'll be hiring them to advance the institution's mission. The academies already operate in this manner to some capacity. You won't fail out, you'll be fired...

I've been in meetings regarding this......

[ElCid]

Depending on the ruling, this will go well beyond just athletics. Academic work is just that, work! Regular students, especially those from disadvantaged backgrounds, will start voicing the inequalities which exist in the world of tangible/intangible financial equity. Especially, when considering the time students must allocate to complete required WORK such as an exam, put forth a presentation, study, attend class, write papers, off campus requirements etc. The non-profit model for higher education could be a thing of the past. At some point, colleges and universities won't be admitting students. They'll be hiring them to advance the institution's mission. The academies already operate in this manner to some capacity. You won't fail out, you'll be fired...

I've been in meetings regarding this......

Does this mean that the bands and cheerleaders will get a percentage of the gate receipts as well? At a few places, the bands are as much of a draw as the game itself.

I kid, only because the entire premise is ridiculous to begin with. That this is even being discussed shows how screwed up some people are.

[Utgrizfan]

Eastern Washington and Portland struggle every year to get a budget, Sometimes Portland can't even get a field.

EWU and PSU are on my short list to be one ofnthe next schools, the Eagles almost cut football inly a few years ago. Also with how bad the city of Portland is getting that could affect the school, recruiting and budget even more. Had a friend I went to school with just get out if there, he described it as a "hell hole"

[OhioHen]

Does this mean that the bands and cheerleaders will get a percentage of the gate receipts as well? At a few places, the bands are as much of a draw as the game itself.

I kid, only because the entire premise is ridiculous to begin with. That this is even being discussed shows how screwed up some people are.
At HBCUs the band is the primary draw wrt actually entering the stadium rather than staying in the lot partying.

[Baron Sardonicus]

Not a pleasant topic. xconfusedx

I'd say Morehead State, with its new AD, is somewhat likely to rejoin OVC football. Not what you wanted to hear?

[Reign of Terrier]

I wouldn't doom about schools being legally mandated to pay college athletes. I'm not following the court case or anything, and i'm no lawyer, but I would imagine such payment would have more to do with revenue generation than just being a player of any sport. It would basically kill all college athletics, because if revenue isn't a consideration at all, there's no reason to say football players should be paid, but (for instance), track runners shouldn't. I'm skeptical, given the composition of SCOTUS that it would do this. But again, that's for another thread, and that's all I'm going to say for that.

I think PC will stick around with their football. It doesn't take much to run a college football program once it gets off the ground. In fact, because it's a revenue generating sports, in some cases it's actually financially solid to have no or few scholarships. There was an article about this years ago (I think it was about D3 schools and maybe the university of chicago?). Your main costs are going to be paying staff and paying for travel, and if you're in an area with lots of FCS, D2 and D3 teams within driving distance, you'll be okay. So, maybe the pioneer isn't ideal for PC, but I would imagine the school would drop to D2 again (or something) before dropping football altogether.

I know absolutely nothing about Western Illinois, but I think they're the most likely to do some more step-downs with their program. I few weeks/months ago I was at an alumni focus group at Wofford, and he said that schools in the west and south are going to benefit over the next generation or so because that's where the populations are going, while in the midwest and northeast, they will decline. Again, I know nothing about WIU, but from what I have heard/know, enrollment has declined so bad that they have had to demolish dorms, and that area of the country just isn't doing hot.

[WestCoastAggie]

At HBCUs the band is the primary draw wrt actually entering the stadium rather than staying in the lot partying.

Also, Black Women, by and large, lap Black Men enrolled by a 2 to 1 ratio, if not more at some schools.

[caribbeanhen]

Also, Black Women, by and large, lap Black Men enrolled by a 2 to 1 ratio, if not more at some schools.

sounds good to me

[Milktruck74]

ETSU was mentioned above. The president decided that dropping football would be a financial win for the university. What was not considered was the drop of enrollment that came with dropping the program. THe Football program is the face of the school in many ways. Especially in the south, many kids will not consider a school that doesn't have a football team. My daughter was looking for schools and I suggest a few, her reply was, "Dad is that even a real college if they don't have a football team?" And other than attending a few home games, she has nothing to do with football. She chose a 2000 student college with a D3 football team over several larger schools. ETSU brought back Football...Why? because they have a goal of growing to 18k students (about 13,500 now) in the next 10 years...and the current president knows that it is going to take a "Face" of the university to help that happen. As with any cut/reduction/change, there are unintended consequences. Getting rid of an expense can make the bottom line look good initially, but not if it drains revenue elsewhere.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I'm rooting for no one to leave the subdivision by dropping football!! I'd rather not speculate since I'm unaware of any rumors at the moment.

As far as FCS programs I'd like to see ADDED:

West Florida => FCS could use a non-HBCU presence in this rapidly growing state. A state with a huge prep talent pool.

Fairfield => Would've love to have seen Fairfield not drop their program so quickly in 2003. Their lax stadium, where football was played before, is a great game day location right down the hill from upperclassmen townhouses. I remember visiting in 2009 and they still had the football hashes. Fairfield with football would be a great fit for the Patriot Leaguue, IMO.

Boston U. => ship has long sailed now, but Boston area could use another FCS program besides Harvard. And the stadium has a lot of history -- the grandstand was the former RF bleacher section in Braves' Field.

[BigGreenTruck]

Not a pleasant topic. xconfusedx

I'd say Morehead State, with its new AD, is somewhat likely to rejoin OVC football. Not what you wanted to hear?

Even with Kelly Wells as the new AD things aren't going to change over night if at all. It isn't that simple with Morehead who have been living on a shoestring budget without 63 scholarships for football. It would take something like Phil Simms getting involved to find the money to move to the OVC, then what happens when that money runs out. Maybe if they would have reversed course a few years after they left like Austin Peay did they may have been able to, I just don't see it now. I think its more likely Morehead drops football then rejoins the OVC as a full member.