Holy Cross

[Go...gate]

I think they are coming around fast under Gilmore and will be very tough in the Patriot.

[blukeys]

We have them in 2 weeks. What do you think they will do?

[TheValleyRaider]

We have them in 2 weeks. What do you think they will do?

Based on the scores so far, they'll move the ball really really well. Maybe. The points they put up against G'town are somewhat impressive because the Hoya defense isn't exactly a bunch of pushovers. The fact they shut down the offense isn't impressive either, given that this is the Hoya's weakness. The 28 points they gave up to Sacred Heart in the first quarter last week doesn't bode very well for the Crusader defense.

In short, if Delaware's defense plays as it should, and the offense starts to click, the Hens will put away HC. UD may never really run away with it, just due to the Crusaders' ability to score, but they should win.

(doesn't mean I'm not rooting for the Cross though ;) :) )

[blukeys]

We will know more about the Hens after this week. UD is very young and green but extremely quick and talented. West Chester is dissed by many but they are a D-II playoff team making it to the semi-finals last year and they have 3 games under their belt.

Scheduling HOly Cross was roundly criticized in Henville when it was first announced. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. ;) ;)

[colgate13]

I will be very interested to watch HC in the coming weeks. They've made a move out of the cellar, now the question is just how far. Right now, I think they're making a good case for #3 or #4 in the PL. We'll see.

[Hansel]

West Chester got pasted 41-7 by the other school in North Dakota last week, they shouldn't be much of a test for the hens

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I will be very interested to watch HC in the coming weeks. They've made a move out of the cellar, now the question is just how far. Right now, I think they're making a good case for #3 or #4 in the PL. We'll see.

I think Holy Cross is improved quite a bit. However, i don't think any real conclusions can be drawn until this week. Georgetown i still think is Georgetown and Bucknell might be the worst team in the league. Losing to Stony Brook? Holy Cross's offense i think is pretty good. They return every body from last year so that alone should result in more production. This week they get Harvard at home. They should get a strong crowd for this game. I don't think their ready to beat a team like Harvard but if they play them tough for 60 minutes then they could be a 6-5 maybe 7-4 type team. I'm actually pulling for Harvard to blow them out so Harvard looks juicer when Lehigh breaks there win streak in Cambridge :D We need a good OOC win to offset some of last nights pain.

[colgate13]

I think I'm ready to get burnt as an HC believer. G'Town has a decent defense. They got shredded. Holy Cross, against Harvard playing in their opener, at Fitton - I might just pick the Sader upset. :D

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think I'm ready to get burnt as an HC believer. G'Town has a decent defense. They got shredded. Holy Cross, against Harvard playing in their opener, at Fitton - I might just pick the Sader upset. :D

I hope not, i want that winning streak snapped Oct. 1 when Harvards sitting about 10th in the polls.

[ngineer]

The 'Saders will have the advantage in having two games under their belts and that ragged first half against Sacred Heart out of their system. BUT, Harvard will be a real test. Should they give the Crimson a game, then I would put them as a potential '4'--Fordham's two losses could start a bad mo' for the Rams, and the poor Bison of Lewisburg have to be studying goat entrails at this point to figure out where their season may be headed. Like TU, I have mixed emotions on what I want the Harvard outcome to be. I'd liketo see HC win for the PL, but I'd like us to end their streak in Cambridge--plus if the streak is still going, it adds to the hype leading up to the game. Sounds like HC's ground attack is very strong. Their QB is also quite capable, so I think it will be up to their defense to bring the 'tilt' to their season.

[justballn21]

We'll put up a good fight this year. I think people will be surprised when they see holy cross in action. I dare say we have the most experienced coaching staff in the patriot leaghue right now and the kids are rewally buying into the system. Mark this game on your calenders. Although there are no garuntees on Saturdays, the crusaders are going to do their best to bring an upset to Harvard Crimson.

[LBPop]

I think I'm ready to get burnt as an HC believer. G'Town has a decent defense. They got shredded. Holy Cross, against Harvard playing in their opener, at Fitton - I might just pick the Sader upset. :D

After watching all 60 minutes of that thrashing of Georgetown by those kids in purple, it's hard not to start believing in Holy Cross. My biggest dilemma is how to judge the play of Georgetown. They are not usually dominated at the line of scrimmage like they were on Saturday. In my view, that is the real story here. Sure, the HC skill guys are very good, but their QB could do whatever he wanted and spend what seemed like "forever" to think about it. And the two Georgetown 'D' Ends (who are excellent) rarely got a call until late in the game. If Holy Cross is doing it with line play, they can be tough on anybody. Skill guys can have great games and then disappear against tough competition--quality line play is usually pretty dependable. I will wait a week or two to judge both teams. Maybe Holy Cross is that good, but I am not ready to consider the possibility that Georgetown is that bad. :o

[colgate13]

I dare say we have the most experienced coaching staff in the patriot leaghue right now

Don't dare. You don't IMO. I would hold Colgate's staff, the majority of whom have been coaching in the Patriot League (and elsewhere) together for more than 10 years, up to anyones. :nod:

No smack meant, but Gilmore still only has one year under his belt as HC. You have a pair of coordinators that have been around, but as a staff, this is only the second season. Experience together means a lot IMHO.

Good luck versus Harvard. I'm 60% there to picking the upset. I need some more Harvard research, but I'm wondering if, out of the gate, they might be a one man show with Dawson. If HC can focus on that and shut it down, I like HC's chances.

I will be stewing on this one for a while!

[Pard94]

Don't dare. You don't IMO. I would hold Colgate's staff, the majority of whom have been coaching in the Patriot League (and elsewhere) together for more than 10 years, up to anyones. :nod:

No smack meant, but Gilmore still only has one year under his belt as HC. You have a pair of coordinators that have been around, but as a staff, this is only the second season. Experience together means a lot IMHO.

Good luck versus Harvard. I'm 60% there to picking the upset. I need some more Harvard research, but I'm wondering if, out of the gate, they might be a one man show with Dawson. If HC can focus on that and shut it down, I like HC's chances.

I will be stewing on this one for a while!

While you're at it check the bios of Lafayette's coaching staff. I graduated over 11 years ago and the number 1 and 2 man at Lafayette were there (and in Tavani's case had been for years) while I was there.

[breezy]

Reading through this thread, I need to correct one mistake that seems to have lived on despite its obvious inaccuracy. During the HC - Sacred Heart game, some of the internet sites that report scores "flipped" the score and had SH winning when in fact it was HC over SH. HC did give up 14 quick points following a long kickoff return and a fumble by its punter, but then scored 49 straight points to lead 49-14 at halftime. HC did not give up 28 points in the first quarter. (In fact, they have given up only 27 points in 2 games.)

It is evidently true that Harvard, Delaware, Yale and Lehigh will be much tougher tests. In last year's game against Harvard, which I saw on TV, it did appear that the Harvard team was quicker and more athletic. Still, I give HC a chance for an upset because the offense is playing well and the defense is coming together.

I think Lehigh, on paper, is still a better team than Holy Cross and Delaware will have to be favored regardless of the outcome of the HC-Harvard game. However, Gilmore seems to have the guys believing in themselves, and I'm sure HC will give Delaware a hard-fought game.

Also, before we dump too much on Bucknell, it's my understanding it has had injuries to some key players.

[colgate13]

While you're at it check the bios of Lafayette's coaching staff. I graduated over 11 years ago and the number 1 and 2 man at Lafayette were there (and in Tavani's case had been for years) while I was there.

I thought of them too Pard, but why should I stick up for some other team? ;)

[Ivytalk]

Harvard is well coached. Tim Murphy won't let his guys look past HC for the big Ivy opener against Brown on the 24th. I predict a close game.

[LBPop]

Also, before we dump too much on Bucknell, it's my understanding it has had injuries to some key players.

Absolutely true. I was truly unhappy to hear that both their starting QB and #1 RB might be out for the season. That's not easy to overcome--especially since that offense requires real precision. I picked them to lose to Stoney Brook, but only due to those injuries.

[Tubby Raymond]

We will know more about the Hens after this week. UD is very young and green but extremely quick and talented. West Chester is dissed by many but they are a D-II playoff team making it to the semi-finals last year and they have 3 games under their belt.

Scheduling HOly Cross was roundly criticized in Henville when it was first announced. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. ;) ;)

WC is at least as young as we are. They have 4/5 guys back on the offensive side of the ball and maybe 6 on the defensive side. We should be drinking beers in the Brown Lot by the half. :cool:

[Fordham]

speaking from the incredibly disappointed cellar of the PL (where's KenZ so I have someone to join me while I cry in my beer?), I have to say a big congrats to Colgate, Lafayette and Holy Cross for huge statement games this weekend, 2 of them on behalf of the PL. Kudos to Lehigh as well for an incredible game against a great opponent in a tough atmosphere. I hope we somehow pick things up in a big way and soon enough to warrant respect in what is an incredibly competitive league this year.

Regarding HC, it's asking alot to expect them to knock off 2 of the best I-AA squads in the upcoming weeks (and that's not counting any PL games), so I'll hold out on judgement for right now over how competitive those games will be. That said, they have gotten off to such a remarkable start that I'm really impressed. I said in the pre-season that the thing that the one thing this talented team needs is to learn how to win/shake off the low expectations that come with losing, and they're cutting their teeth remarkably well thus far. I really hope they can pull off the next few games and show that their program is back (in a big way).

Also, since I don't want to start a separate PL thread (noone from Fordham really wants to draw any attention to themselves after these 2 weeks), I also have say congrats to Colgate again. I'm stunned at what they pulled off and it really shows some character imo and also puts the CCSU loss in better perspective in my opinion, where I feel like the story is now more about the huge # of turnovers and letting up at the very end of the game than it was about a sign that they'll be reeling this year. Will it be an up and down year or an upward march to the top for the guys in Hamilton this year?

Either way, it's going to be an incredibly competitive year this year in the PL and I just hope we can somehow start to gel before we start our league games.

Again, kudos to you guys for a great week.

[colgate13]

I hope Fordham gets it together too. Am I wrong in thinking that your guys biggest issue seems to be finding some leadership? You've got tons of skill position talent. Are there a lot of injuries?

I currently think Holy Cross has a chance to make one out of the two Harvard/UD games interesting. They have found a groove. The next test is to see how well it stands up to some adversity in the form of serious talent.

This is mostly Homer talking, but I think it will be an upward march for Colgate, with culmunating tests at home versus our PL friends starting in mid-October with Fordham. We then have HC (away), Lehigh and Lafayette (away). I can only hope we find an offense soon, because defense alone won't win all of those games. Dartmouth, Cornell and Princeton are not gimmies in the least. Cornell especially I see as very tough - they're getting better and then there is the rivalry factor.

I just hope for a nice Dartmouth win that show some offensive improvement and a nice bye week to get some guys healthy and some more reps in practice. It will certianly help our youngsters that are getting so much time.

My early prediction: the PL autobid goes to a co-champ with TWO league losses via a tiebreaker BUT we get two teams in the playoffs again. How's that for parity?

[Fordham]

we've had some injuries, including a tough season-ending one of one of our starting OT's (Sr - Michael Bottiglieri) at freaking practice on Thursday, but overall it hasn't been about the injuries in my opinion. At this point, though, I'm just not sure if it's a player leadership thing or bad coaching or that we're possibly just not as talented as we thought we were.

We're clearly in a must-win this weekend v. Columbia and it'll be my first time to catch them live v. radio so I'll be able to give better feedback after this week than any other so far.

[LUHawker]

So let me get this straight - HC beats poor old Sacred Heart and G'town, which hasn't done jack in the PL and we're suddenly talking about them giving Harvard and Delaware 'games"! I don't usually like to be so glib, but come on! I'm sure HC is much improved under Gilmore, but programs don't improve overnight and HC won't be in a position just yet to battle Harvard or UD close enough. Sorry to rain on the HC love fest.

[justballn21]

So let me get this straight - HC beats poor old Sacred Heart and G'town, which hasn't done jack in the PL and we're suddenly talking about them giving Harvard and Delaware 'games"! I don't usually like to be so glib, but come on! I'm sure HC is much improved under Gilmore, but programs don't improve overnight and HC won't be in a position just yet to battle Harvard or UD close enough. Sorry to rain on the HC love fest.

just a little tidbit of information: Holy Cross held Georgetown to a total of 21 YARDS in the first half off of 17 plays. The only touchdown was scored against our three-deep (yes thats right they couldn even get past our two-deep) and this is not a bad georgetown team. Don't underestimate the crusaders, liike our coach says, "we must relish the challenge." I wish Harvard the best of luck because they are a great team, and one that demands respect. But those boys in purple are getting ready for a battle, and a battle it will be.

[colgate13]

I'm sure HC is much improved under Gilmore, but programs don't improve overnight

Actually, they can. Colgate went from 0-11 in 1995 to 6-5 in 1996. Look even closer, and they lost four in a row to start 1996. They then wen on to win 31 out of their next 43 games culminating in a 10-2 1999 season.

HC still has a lot to prove, but they are righting the ship and making some noise. Why not get excited about the potential to take down Harvard or give UD a game?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

HC still has a lot to prove, but they are righting the ship and making some noise. Why not get excited about the potential to take down Harvard or give UD a game?

Congrats to HC. They appear to be on their way to righting the ship. But I don't think they stand a chance versus Delaware. They might give Harvard a game if the Crimson look past the Crusaders and they lose the turnover battle by a lot, but I don't think that will happen, and Harvard is truly stacked with talent.

[colgate13]

Call me a fool, but I think in the two short weeks this season has been alive, I've heard numerous times of why Team X can't be Team Y because they're so much better. I've then gone on to see CCSU beat Colgate, Colgate beat UMass, CCU beat JMU, McNeese beat GSU, NDSU beat NW St, Stony Brook beat Bucknell.... etc.

I'll leave my UD/HC pick up until they actually play, but for now, HC hosting Harvard in their first game of the year, their first game w/o Fitzpatrick with HC having a senior led team showing signs of life - all lead me to think of an upset is hardly outside of the realm of possibility.

[Ivytalk]

I'll stick my neck out and guess 24-20, Harvard, but it could go either way. The wacky start of the current I-AA season reminds me of Eddie Murphy's classic line in Trading Places : "There's some strange ***** going on here, Coleman!"

[ChickenMan]

Maybe I'm missing something... but HC was 3-8 last year and 0-3 and outscored 133 to 34 vs their three quality 1AA opponents... Harvard... Lehigh and Lafayette. Maybe I'm crazy... but are recent wins over Sacred Heart and Georgetown really evidence that HC has significantly closed the gap vs the top 1AA schools??? Holy Cross vs Harvard Saturday...we'll have a much better read after this week's game.

[Andy]

I have to agree with the Lehigh guys.

If HC can hold Harvard to the mid-20s, then I will be a believer. If they do, however, I will readily play the "1st game" and "new QB" cards to allay my fears.

[colgate13]

Don't worry CM, I haven't been smoking anything funny. On paper, Harvard should win and HC has not yet proved itself. I think some of us are just trying to sniff out a potential upset in light of recent events.

There is a genuine feeling that this Holy Cross team could be a winner; how much of one will be told in the coming weeks. They come out of these next 4 games (Harvard, UD, Yale, Lehigh) with a .500 record or better, they've turned a corner IMO.

[GannonFan]

As for playing close with UD, UD is still fairly young and that could contribute to a close game. But it will also be Holy Cross's first time in Delaware Stadium and they will not have played in a venue of that size probably ever. There's a reason UD is so good at home (22-2 under KC Keeler).

[ChickenMan]

They come out of these next 4 games (Harvard, UD, Yale, Lehigh) with a .500 record or better, they've turned a corner IMO.

I think that there's a better chance of John Roberts coming out of the senate confirmation hearings with the endorsement of MoveOn.org.... :D

[colgate13]

All it takes is Yale and one upset... Playing at the Tub will be baptism by fire, but they get the Crimson at home. That helps...

[hvsader]

As for playing close with UD, UD is still fairly young and that could contribute to a close game. But it will also be Holy Cross's first time in Delaware Stadium and they will not have played in a venue of that size probably ever. There's a reason UD is so good at home (22-2 under KC Keeler).

1st time @ Delaware yes, venue that size, c'mon - Fitton field holds 24000

[ChickenMan]

1st time @ Delaware yes, venue that size, c'mon - Fitton field holds 24000

It's not the first time... Holy Cross won @ UD in 1983.

[TheValleyRaider]

1st time @ Delaware yes, venue that size, c'mon - Fitton field holds 24000

When was the last time HC drew 24000? Stadium capacity and crowd size are two very different things

[89Hen]

I think GF was getting at that none of the players at HC had played..., not that the program hadn't.

[colgate13]

1st time @ Delaware yes, venue that size, c'mon - Fitton field holds 24000

When's the last time Fitton had 24,000 fans in it? :rolleyes:

This team has played mostly for crowds less than 10,000. So far this year Sacred Heart was 4731 and G'Town was 8,912.

Is there any game that any member of the current team has played where the crowd is more than 15,000?

[GannonFan]

Yes, I was referring to current players (as far as I know no players from that '83 team are still playing?) and yes I was referring to seats that are filled, not just empty ones in the stadium.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

When's the last time Fitton had 24,000 fans in it? :rolleyes:

This team has played mostly for crowds less than 10,000. So far this year Sacred Heart was 4731 and G'Town was 8,912.

Is there any game that any member of the current team has played where the crowd is more than 15,000?

The Seniors played at Army in 2002. I'm also guessing there was close to if not more than 15,000 when the played at Harvard last year. Still won't be like playing at the Tub.

[GannonFan]

The Seniors played at Army in 2002. I'm also guessing there was close to if not more than 15,000 when the played at Harvard last year. Still won't be like playing at the Tub.

The low point of Army football - losing to Holy Cross back in 2002 - yikes. They did play in front of a crowd of 28,053 at Michy Stadium back then. Harvard last year was not a large crowd - 9,513 in a stadium capacity of 30,898 - that's a lot of empty seats.

[Ivytalk]

The low point of Army football - losing to Holy Cross back in 2002 - yikes. They did play in front of a crowd of 28,053 at Michy Stadium back then. Harvard last year was not a large crowd - 9,513 in a stadium capacity of 30,898 - that's a lot of empty seats.

That's not surprising. Last year's Harvard game was played in the rain, as I recall, and HC has not been a big draw in recent years. For that matter, it's unusual for any non-Ivy opponent to attract as many as 10,000 to Harvard Stadium nowadays. Yale is the only team that can sell out at Harvard now. When I was an undergrad, Dartmouth, Princeton and Brown routinely attracted crowds of 20,000+, but times have changed. Even Penn drew only about 15,000 two years ago.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

That's not surprising. Last year's Harvard game was played in the rain, as I recall, and HC has not been a big draw in recent years. For that matter, it's unusual for any non-Ivy opponent to attract as many as 10,000 to Harvard Stadium nowadays. Yale is the only team that can sell out at Harvard now. When I was an undergrad, Dartmouth, Princeton and Brown routinely attracted crowds of 20,000+, but times have changed. Even Penn drew only about 15,000 two years ago.


How many fans do you think you'll get for the Lehigh game? I'm gonna scratch and crawl to try to make it from Philly to Boston on October 1. I figure Lehigh should have 3k-4k at the game. They have a pretty strong alumni base in Connecticut and Mass.

[Ivytalk]

How many fans do you think you'll get for the Lehigh game? I'm gonna scratch and crawl to try to make it from Philly to Boston on October 1. I figure Lehigh should have 3k-4k at the game. They have a pretty strong alumni base in Connecticut and Mass.


If it's a nice day and Harvard is still undefeated, 10,000 or 11,000. If not, 8500 total.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If it's a nice day and Harvard is still undefeated, 10,000 or 11,000. If not, 8500 total.

Wow, that's suprising to me. i thought Harvard drew much better than that, 14-16k. Yale had 17k i believe for the Lehigh game last year.

[Ivytalk]

Wow, that's suprising to me. i thought Harvard drew much better than that, 14-16k. Yale had 17k i believe for the Lehigh game last year.

Yale almost always outdraws Harvard for football games against comparable opponents. Harvard gets small crowds for PL opponents (8k to 9k on average) and did somewhat better against Northeastern, which was a "town game." The Crimson drew about 14k for Cornell last year, maybe 10k against Columbia (and I'm not even sure it was that many), and the usual Yale sellout of about 31k.

[Ivytalk]

In the "FWIW" category, Harvard beat Columbia 41-27 in a September 3 scrimmage, getting over 600 yards of total offense. Both QBs (Irwin, the Tulane transfer, and O'Hagan) performed well. Dawson had limited playing time but ran for 56 yards in 8 carries and caught a TD pass.

[colgate13]

The Seniors played at Army in 2002.

HC played Army sure, but how many seniors traveled when they were freshman? Certainly not all of them. How many actually played? Any?

It will be an eye opener for any PL team to go into the Tub.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If it's a nice day and Harvard is still undefeated, 10,000 or 11,000. If not, 8500 total.

I think a battle between 2 top-ranked I-AA teams on a sunny day might get into the 12,000 range, I would think? Plus, it's nationally televised on CSTV... I think that does make a difference...

[Ivytalk]

I think a battle between 2 top-ranked I-AA teams on a sunny day might get into the 12,000 range, I would think? Plus, it's nationally televised on CSTV... I think that does make a difference...


Ah, nothing like the TV factor to bring out the Crimson fans! Maybe Ted K will show up. He's an old football man, after all. When he came to the '97 Yale game to congratulate the winners, he almost blocked out the sun!

[LBPop]

That's not surprising. Last year's Harvard game was played in the rain, as I recall, and HC has not been a big draw in recent years.

So, do you think many Harvard fans will make the trip to Worcester? I would think that they could afford the gas. ;)

[blukeys]

In the "FWIW" category, Harvard beat Columbia 41-27 in a September 3 scrimmage, getting over 600 yards of total offense. Both QBs (Irwin, the Tulane transfer, and O'Hagan) performed well. Dawson had limited playing time but ran for 56 yards in 8 carries and caught a TD pass.

A Tulane transfer!!!!! I thought Harvard had academic standards! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Next thing you know they will be taking transfers from Duke!! ;) ;)

A vote for no. 1 plus a tulane transfer. Harvard is becoming a football factory! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D :D :D

[Ivytalk]

A Tulane transfer!!!!! I thought Harvard had academic standards! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Next thing you know they will be taking transfers from Duke!! ;) ;)

A vote for no. 1 plus a tulane transfer. Harvard is becoming a football factory! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D :D :D

Caught red-handed! :o Oh, well, chalk it up to "diversity"! :D

[GannonFan]

Caught red-handed! :o Oh, well, chalk it up to "diversity"! :D

Nah, Penn's being lowering standards for years to get the athletes in - it's just keeping up with the Joneses!