2023 Patriot League Thread

[DFW HOYA]

2023 begins another season for the Patriot League. Anyone there?

While Holy Cross fans debate which walls of the Hart Center need to come down to hold all the trophies it will be collecting over the next few years, and Fordham continues on its quest to be the highest budgeted team in the subdivision ($8 million and counting), the remainder of the league are now bottom-30 programs which have combined for a non-conference record of 7-42 (.142) over the past two seasons. Four of the seven schools, championship level and major bowl entrants in their best days, now average fewer than 3,000 a game.

A decade ago, a much more lively collection of Patriot posters on this board discussed the game-changing move of full scholarship football (for everyone but those guys (https://guhoyas.com/news/2012/2/13/Statement_from_Georgetown_Regarding_Football.aspx) ) that would elevate the league nationally. Now, ten years later, what is the outlook by team for 2023?

[FUBeAR]

Well…after that uplifting intro, FUBeAR has a PL question.

Hero Sports projects Holy Cross to go 10-1 with an FBS win and 0 FCS losses. With the Crusaders impressive performance under difficult conditions in last year’s Playoffs, if they live up to Hero Sports projections, why would they not be a #1 or #2 Seed. And if not one of those, why not #3 or #4?

[gravalico]

Surprise, surprise... I'm optimistic. Trox and his staff took a team that was outclassed by most of the league on offense, outclassed most of the league on defense and had special teams units that seemed to actively be engaged in sabotage week in and week out; and made a more than respectable head coaching debut. Let's not forget he was plagued by significant injuries at a whole host of of key positions. The plot twists, particularly in the beginning of the season, were down right Shakespesrian. What was really remarkable was how they gave teams they had no business being on the field with legitimate scares; beating Sacred Heart, hanging tough with Temple and damn near beating Holy Cross. A hell of a first year to build on.

And Trox made it clear he wanted to get bigger, meaner and faster in the off season. Can't really tell until the new guys strap up but it certainly seems like he checked all of the boxes on paper.

As for the "behind the scenes" responsibilities, that might be where he had most of his success. He has endeared himself to the AD and the President and he stoked up an alumni base that was already in his corner.

Questions still remain at QB (no small concern). And we lost some huge horses on defense...that will be interesting. His o-line should automatically be better with veterans now healthy and a very interesting addition via the transfer portal.

I may be viewing the season through leopard colored glasses but I feel like it is going to be fun! Go Pards!

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

[crusader11]

I was curious about all-time winning streaks in the PL. As was posted on the HC board --

18 - Lehigh, Nov. 2009 - Nov. 2012

17 - Holy Cross, Nov. 2019 - present

16 - Lehigh, Nov. 1999 - Oct. 2022

15 - Colgate, Oct. 2002 - Oct. 2004

12 - Holy Cross, Oct. 1990 - Nov. 1992

[caribbeanhen]

Well…after that uplifting intro, FUBeAR has a PL question.

Hero Sports projects Holy Cross to go 10-1 with an FBS win and 0 FCS losses. With the Crusaders impressive performance under difficult conditions in last year’s Playoffs, if they live up to Hero Sports projections, why would they not be a #1 or #2 Seed. And if not one of those, why not #3 or #4?

because the tide went out and left them (Patriot Conference) stranded on the shore

They got No Values at all

SPM

[crusader11]

Well…after that uplifting intro, FUBeAR has a PL question.

Hero Sports projects Holy Cross to go 10-1 with an FBS win and 0 FCS losses. With the Crusaders impressive performance under difficult conditions in last year’s Playoffs, if they live up to Hero Sports projections, why would they not be a #1 or #2 Seed. And if not one of those, why not #3 or #4?

Holy Cross was seeded incorrectly last season. If we are to assume that HC goes 10-1 with its lone loss to either BC or Army, I'd think that's good enough for a top four seed for sure. It pains me to say that past performance has a bearing on seeding in the playoffs, but I think it does whether we'd like to admit it or not.

Style points help, too. I think if HC blew out Bryant and Lafayette last season, as opposed to playing them to one-score games, HC's seed is different.

What getting seeded eight last year, despite being undefeated with an FBS win and win over the Ivy champs shows, is that there's zero margin for error coming out of the bad PL.

[RichH2]

2023 begins another season for the Patriot League. Anyone there?

While Holy Cross fans debate which walls of the Hart Center need to come down to hold all the trophies it will be collecting over the next few years, and Fordham continues on its quest to be the highest budgeted team in the subdivision ($8 million and counting), the remainder of the league are now bottom-30 programs which have combined for a non-conference record of 7-42 (.142) over the past two seasons. Four of the seven schools, championship level and major bowl entrants in their best days, now average fewer than 3,000 a game.

A decade ago, a much more lively collection of Patriot posters on this board discussed the game-changing move of full scholarship football (for everyone but those guys (https://guhoyas.com/news/2012/2/13/Statement_from_Georgetown_Regarding_Football.aspx) ) that would elevate the league nationally. Now, ten years later, what is the outlook by team for 2023?

Cross will dominate the dwarfs. Fordham perhaps the most talent overall but inconsistent performance.
Gate a puzzle to me. Have no idea which way they will go. Pards will be better with Trox and a new staff. No QB an issue.
Lehigh will be greatly improved just by the coaching change. Key for Cahill is putting an O out that can score. LU has had no O since Mays Some very good talent but very little depth of talent. OL and QB are the issues. Hopeful.
Bucknell is starting to develop but not yet competitive. I always expect Hoyas to be better than predicted. Maybe next year

[ngineer]

I can see HC going 10-1 based on what they have returning, but their OOC schedule is tough and wouldn't be surprised (after all it's football) if they stub a toe or two along the way. If anyone in the PL has a whisper of a shot to upset, it would be Fordham, but their track record doesn't support that conclusion. I anticipate a good battle for 3rd among Colgate, Lafayette and Lehigh. On any given day, one could be the other.

Lehigh will have some nice talent, but depth could, again, be a bugaboo. Biggest Q will be who will be the QB. Sr. Perri returns and has show to be a battler, but consistency has been an issue and decision making. Soph.Silbor has the superior arm and whether he comes out of camp as the starter will likely depend on how well he knows "the book" and able to read defenses and react accordingly. Lehigh will have an excellent stable of RB's, led by Garcia, so any kind of decent passing game should open things up. The OL got a big shot in the arm with the transfer back of Curatolo, who had transferred to Boston College in 2022, but has now returned! One of the top LB's in the country, DeNucci, will lead the defense along with DE Harris. Secondary will have some replacements that are athletic, but unseasoned. I would hope the Mhawks can have a winning season in Cahill's first year, but that would require some unexpected performances and not many injuries. Last year's team should have won at least three more games, so I would hope the change in leadership would, in itself, be enough to reach that level.

[Go...gate]

Colgate is a mystery as Stan Dakosty returns and the University seeks a new Athletic Director in the wake of Nikki Moore's controversial departure. I believe a winning campaign is unlikely. 4-7, 5-6 and fifth in the Patriot League at best.

Cross will repeat and Fordham will be a strong runner-up, with Lafayette and Lehigh battling for third place in the conference.

Bucknell and Georgetown will finish sixth and seventh respectively in the league.

We need an eighth school for football.

Fun fact: forty years ago this summer, the formation of the Colonial League was announced.

[crusader11]

Colgate feels like a rudderless program these days, which is strange after such stability under Biddle, which seemingly carried over to Hunt. This is a really important year for Dakosty.

Any idea what his contract is like (he was named permanent head coach in August, 2021)? A three year deal is possible, which means he's in a contract year...but I also think a three year deal is unlikely because if that was the case, Colgate would have given him an "extension" (in name only, really), so he wouldn't be recruiting as a lame duck.

[Go...gate]

Colgate feels like a rudderless program these days, which is strange after such stability under Biddle, which seemingly carried over to Hunt. This is a really important year for Dakosty.

Any idea what his contract is like (he was named permanent head coach in August, 2021)? A three year deal is possible, which means he's in a contract year...but I also think a three year deal is unlikely because if that was the case, Colgate would have given him an "extension" (in name only, really), so he wouldn't be recruiting as a lame duck.

i believe he received a four-year deal.

[Sader87]

I think predictions of HC going 10-1 are wildly optimistic with games at BC, Yale and Army, never mind other tough games like Harvard, at Fordham and the usual "WTF is going on out there?" game which happens most years.

That being said, we look pretty formidable on paper and even with a record of 8-3 or even 7-4, I think we'd be a tough out if we qualify for the playoffs.

[KPSUL]

I think predictions of HC going 10-1 are wildly optimistic with games at BC, Yale and Army, never mind other tough games like Harvard, at Fordham and the usual "WTF is going on out there?" game which happens most years.

That being said, we look pretty formidable on paper and even with a record of 8-3 or even 7-4, I think we'd be a tough out if we qualify for the playoffs.

I agree with you on both points. 10-1 is unlikely and there is no reason to think HC will not be as competitive come playoff time. I don't see 7-4 either, but if it happens, you better win the PL Championship or the playoffs might not be in your future this season.

[DFW HOYA]

Ten year records for PL teams in the four league tiers:

Playoff Contenders
Fordham 67-44 (.603)
Holy Cross: 58-52 (.527)
--------
Former Playoff Contenders
Colgate: 52-54 (.490)
Lehigh: 44-61 (419)
--------
Non-Playoff Contenders
Bucknell: 37-64 (.366)
Lafayette: 32-72 (.307)
Georgetown: 27-71 (.275)

On edit, Georgetown contends against Bucknell and Lafayette but not the four above it. This is for a different discussion.

[crusader11]

DFW — I very much appreciate your posts and perspective around here, but there’s a lot of woe is us / smallest violin.

Rather than belaboring how non-competitive Georgetown is and the reasons that is the case, maybe offer up a ten step plan for how to get Georgetown competitive in the PL?

[DFW HOYA]

Nothing about those statistics belabor the point--the 10-year trend is visible for the seven schools. Five of the seven are below .500 since 2013, six of seven since 2018.

HC and Fordham have appeared to figure out what the other schools have not when it comes to being competitive in the out-of-league play. Let's talk about that.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Ten year records for PL teams in the four league tiers:

Playoff Contenders
Fordham 67-44 (.603)
Holy Cross: 58-52 (.527)
--------
Former Playoff Contenders
Colgate: 52-54 (.490)
Lehigh: 44-61 (419)
--------
Non-Playoff Contenders
Bucknell: 37-64 (.366)
Lafayette: 32-72 (.307)
Georgetown: 27-71 (.275)

On edit, Georgetown contends against Bucknell and Lafayette but not the four above it. This is for a different discussion.

The Colgate and Lehigh stats really show what tragedy/"institutional failure" can do to a winning program. Prior to Holy Cross's current 4-peat Colgate and Lehigh won the 4 previous PL titles. Had Coen not suffered his unfortunate fate, Lehigh football was humming along generally speaking. Then the hiring of Gilmore further compromised matters; worst hire in PL football history. Colgate was peaks and valleys under Hunt but overall they were very much relevant. Hopefully this is Dakosty's last stand for better or worse Hamilton.

Chesney is a great coach but he really stepped into it when it comes to the timing of Colgate's and Lehigh's downfall.

If Cahill and company have their bleep together the Mountain Hawk turnaround could be pretty drastic this year (6 wins). They were being led by complete incompetence the last 4 years...

[Go...gate]

Word out of Hamilton is that QB Michael Brescia spent a stint at the Manning Passing Academy earlier this Summer.

[Fordham]

Former Utah RB Ricky Parks Transfers To Fordham

https://www.thebluebloodscfb.com/fcs-football-front-page-the-latest-news-notes-recruiting-updates-june-26/

Former Utah running back Ricky Parks announced his commitment to Fordham. He will have three years of eligibility remaining for the Rams.

Parks redshirted during his true freshman season and did not see any action during the 2022 season. He signed with the Utes as a four-star prospect out of Gaither (Fla.) High School. He was the No. 19 running back and No. 45 player in the state of Florida in the class of 2021.

Parks earned All-Conference honors as a senior after rushing for 688 yards and 11 touchdowns. He averaged 7.2 yards per carry and was named the MaxPreps Offensive Player of the Week against Chamberlain High School. He earned first-team All-County and second-team All-Tampa Bay as a junior at Jesuit (Fla.) High School. He finished his junior season with 1,251 rushing yards and 14 rushing touchdowns.

[crusader11]

Nice pick-up! Looks like he could be a good piece alongside Loughridge.

[Bill]

Former Utah RB Ricky Parks Transfers To Fordham

https://www.thebluebloodscfb.com/fcs-football-front-page-the-latest-news-notes-recruiting-updates-june-26/

Former Utah running back Ricky Parks announced his commitment to Fordham. He will have three years of eligibility remaining for the Rams.

Parks redshirted during his true freshman season and did not see any action during the 2022 season. He signed with the Utes as a four-star prospect out of Gaither (Fla.) High School. He was the No. 19 running back and No. 45 player in the state of Florida in the class of 2021.

Parks earned All-Conference honors as a senior after rushing for 688 yards and 11 touchdowns. He averaged 7.2 yards per carry and was named the MaxPreps Offensive Player of the Week against Chamberlain High School. He earned first-team All-County and second-team All-Tampa Bay as a junior at Jesuit (Fla.) High School. He finished his junior season with 1,251 rushing yards and 14 rushing touchdowns.

The Jesuits strike again!:)

Seriously, I wonder if that could be some kind of draw beyond the traditional Catholic recruiting pipelines. In the the day of the transfer portal, a former Catholic/Jesuit HS player lands back in a familiar situation when the big time doesn't work out...

[Go...gate]

Former Utah RB Ricky Parks Transfers To Fordham

https://www.thebluebloodscfb.com/fcs-football-front-page-the-latest-news-notes-recruiting-updates-june-26/

Former Utah running back Ricky Parks announced his commitment to Fordham. He will have three years of eligibility remaining for the Rams.

Parks redshirted during his true freshman season and did not see any action during the 2022 season. He signed with the Utes as a four-star prospect out of Gaither (Fla.) High School. He was the No. 19 running back and No. 45 player in the state of Florida in the class of 2021.

Parks earned All-Conference honors as a senior after rushing for 688 yards and 11 touchdowns. He averaged 7.2 yards per carry and was named the MaxPreps Offensive Player of the Week against Chamberlain High School. He earned first-team All-County and second-team All-Tampa Bay as a junior at Jesuit (Fla.) High School. He finished his junior season with 1,251 rushing yards and 14 rushing touchdowns.

Nice transfer.

[DFW HOYA]

Reddit fan poll:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fcs/comments/1532zwc/patriot_league_2023_preseason_power_ranking/

[Go Green]

12 - Holy Cross, Oct. 1990 - Nov. 1992

Of course, HC was the only Colonial/PL team giving scholarships in that period.

[Go...gate]

Of course, HC was the only Colonial/PL team giving scholarships in that period.

Yep - and it showed. HC dominated the league.

[Baron Sardonicus]

We need an eighth school for football.


Marist.

You know you want them.




xeyebrowx

[Go...gate]

[QUOTE=Baron Sardonicus;3132202]

Marist.

You know you want them.

Marist does not appear to be interested.

[Baron Sardonicus]

Marist does not appear to be interested.

Didn't Marist get a new president last fall? I think he was an extra in the movie Rudy. Surely, this guy will see the advantages of spending tons of money to compete in the Patriot League.

At the very least, he should get the Red Foxes a few scholarships so they can better compete with Georgetown. xrotatehx

[caribbeanhen]

[QUOTE=Baron Sardonicus;3132202]

Marist.

You know you want them.

Marist does not appear to be interested.

How bout the Gales of Iona

[crusader11]

Marist.

You know you want them.




xeyebrowx

Rather have Albany, UNH, URI, and Maine.

[caribbeanhen]

Rather have Albany, UNH, URI, and Maine.

and some southern conference fans want Richmond, William and Mary and Elon

[FUBeAR]

and some southern conference fans want Richmond, William and Mary and Elon
Nah - y’all can keep the carpetbagging Formerly Fightin’ Former Christians. We had our fill of their completely unexplainable and unwarranted uppityness. Fits perfectly well in with you Coastal Atheltic Association peeps though.

[UAalum72]

[QUOTE=Go...gate;3132221]

How bout the Gales of Iona
Fifteen years since the Gaels last played football?

[Baron Sardonicus]

Rather have Albany, UNH, URI, and Maine.

Eh, they don't have a snobby, private school vibe.

xsmiley_wix

[caribbeanhen]

[QUOTE=caribbeanhen;3132235]
Fifteen years since the Gaels last played football?

Gaels… my bad

A cocky little New York kid turned up at work a few years ago and we started talking some college football and he mentioned that he got a full scholarship to Iona, He was a HS QB in Poughkeepsie, New York…. He would’ve been a great kid to watch a football game with because he was smart and could give QB perspective. we would watch some videos and he would break down my play for me. He told me the first day on practice field he knew he wasn’t gonna cut it. He was just too small, lasted about a week.

[Go...gate]

LIU Post, Wagner, Hofstra (they would have to bring back football).

Marist would work but they need scholarships.

[DFW HOYA]

The coaches poll:

2023 Pre-Season:
1. Holy Cross
2. Fordham
3. Colgate
4. Lafayette
5. Lehigh
6. Bucknell
6. Georgetown


http://patriotleague.org/news/2023/7/24/patriot-league-announces-2023-preseason-football-honors-7-25-23.aspx

The view from LFN:

https://www.college-sports-journal.com/2013-patriot-league-preview/ (https://www.college-sports-journal.com/2013-patriot-league-preview/)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The coaches poll:

2023 Pre-Season:
1. Holy Cross
2. Fordham
3. Colgate
4. Lafayette
5. Lehigh
6. Bucknell
6. Georgetown


http://patriotleague.org/news/2023/7/24/patriot-league-announces-2023-preseason-football-honors-7-25-23.aspx

The view from LFN:

https://www.college-sports-journal.com/2013-patriot-league-preview/ (https://www.college-sports-journal.com/2013-patriot-league-preview/)

I'm not buying Colgate at 3 over Lafayette and Lehigh. Lafayette has a firm identity given their stout defense and Lehigh has a coaching upgrade. Lehigh and Lafayette both have a reasonable shot to win 6 games if Troxell and Cahill find their footing. Lehigh is not in a top down rebuild. They need to establish a QB, OL and some depth. Do that and they can contend next year.....

I'll go...
1. Holy Cross
2. Fordham
3. Lafayette
4. Lehigh
5. Colgate
6. Georgetown
7. Bucknell

[crusader11]

I'm not buying Colgate at 3 over Lafayette and Lehigh. Lafayette has a firm identity given their stout defense and Lehigh has a coaching upgrade. Lehigh and Lafayette both have a reasonable shot to win 6 games if Troxell and Cahill find their footing. Lehigh is not in a top down rebuild. They need to establish a QB, OL and some depth. Do that and they can contend next year.....

I'll go...
1. Holy Cross
2. Fordham
3. Lafayette
4. Lehigh
5. Colgate
6. Georgetown
7. Bucknell

This looks right to me. If Lafayette doesn’t find a semblance of an offense, I think Lehigh is better than them. I’m just banking that Hunt and Cahill, who are strong offensive minds, can figure out a way to put points up against PL defenses.

[caribbeanhen]

1. Holy Cross

7. Georgetown

[DFW HOYA]

I'm not buying Colgate at 3 over Lafayette and Lehigh. Lafayette has a firm identity given their stout defense and Lehigh has a coaching upgrade. Lehigh and Lafayette both have a reasonable shot to win 6 games if Troxell and Cahill find their footing. Lehigh is not in a top down rebuild. They need to establish a QB, OL and some depth. Do that and they can contend next year.....

I'll go...
1. Holy Cross
2. Fordham
3. Lafayette
4. Lehigh
5. Colgate
6. Georgetown
7. Bucknell

For those considering Georgetown sixth (or higher), this cautionary note: the Hoyas return one starter on offense this season.

[Go...gate]

The coaches poll:

2023 Pre-Season:
1. Holy Cross
2. Fordham
3. Colgate
4. Lafayette
5. Lehigh
6. Bucknell
6. Georgetown


http://patriotleague.org/news/2023/7/24/patriot-league-announces-2023-preseason-football-honors-7-25-23.aspx

The view from LFN:

https://www.college-sports-journal.com/2013-patriot-league-preview/ (https://www.college-sports-journal.com/2013-patriot-league-preview/)

Flip Colgate and Lehigh.

[gravalico]

This looks right to me. If Lafayette doesn’t find a semblance of an offense, I think Lehigh is better than them. I’m just banking that Hunt and Cahill, who are strong offensive minds, can figure out a way to put points up against PL defenses.Lafayette has at least the same qb as they've had for the last couple of years (barring injury) and their o-line is bound to be better assuming Notre Dame OT transfer, Olmstead, doesn't get hurt in the first game of the season again and the new Wake Forest transfer fits in well. They also have a preseason all league TE to target.

Trox and his staff damn near shocked the world against HC last year, beat Sacred Heart and hung tough with Temple...and they beat Lehigh. Unless this new coach at Lehigh is better well-beyond his luke warm reviews, Lafayette really ought to be better than the Mountain Hawks.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

[RichH2]

I'm not buying Colgate at 3 over Lafayette and Lehigh. Lafayette has a firm identity given their stout defense and Lehigh has a coaching upgrade. Lehigh and Lafayette both have a reasonable shot to win 6 games if Troxell and Cahill find their footing. Lehigh is not in a top down rebuild. They need to establish a QB, OL and some depth. Do that and they can contend next year.....

I'll go...
1. Holy Cross
2. Fordham
3. Lafayette
4. Lehigh
5. Colgate
6. Georgetown
7. Bucknell
Seems as accurate as any right now for the muddle in the middle. Lots of questions tho. In a QB centric league like ours Cross and Rams top dogs last year. Cross returns its QB. Fordham does not and loses top 2 WRs and top RB.
Merely a reload or is it a rebuild?
Gate ,Pards and Lehigh. Gate has a returning QB but not much else. Pards may have a better O but D was gutted by graduations. Lehigh lost studs at every level on D but return a lot. The O was hampered more by inept coaching than lack of talent. If Hunt and Cahill can field an O,a winning season may be possible
Buckles have QB. Can Ceech put together an O?
Hoyas are what they are. There is talent but not nearly enough.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Holy Cross is safely in my AGS Top 5, Fordham just made the Top 25. Will anyone else step up? All things considered (and DFW likely won't agree) the PL's ceiling is at least as high as its ever been. And that includes when Lehigh and Colgate were at the top of the games in the late 90s, early 00s. Only Lehigh in 2002 and Colgate in 2004 entered the season with such hype and both of those teams fell well short of expectations. I don't see Holy Cross faltering unless injuries take their toll. Injuries were Lehigh's undoing (especially at QB) in 2002. Schwenk had a snake-bitten career at Lehigh. He had talent but no luck....

[DFW HOYA]

Holy Cross is safely in my AGS Top 5, Fordham just made the Top 25. Will anyone else step up? All things considered (and DFW likely won't agree) the PL's ceiling is at least as high as its ever been.

Holy Cross' ceiling is high, but the rest of the league is just not good, especially out of league. Compare it to Colgate's halcyon season of 2003, which also featured #23 Lehigh (8-3), #25 Fordham (9-3) and a 6-6 Bucknell team that lost three Ivy games by a combined six points, including a one point loss to undefeated Penn.

The PL as a whole does not fare well if Lehigh and Colgate remain under .500.

[caribbeanhen]

Holy Cross' ceiling is high, but the rest of the league is just not good, especially out of league. Compare it to Colgate's halcyon season of 2003, which also featured #23 Lehigh (8-3), #25 Fordham (9-3) and a 6-6 Bucknell team that lost three Ivy games by a combined six points, including a one point loss to undefeated Penn.

The PL as a whole does not fare well if Lehigh and Colgate remain under .500.

It was almost shocking to see Colgate make that playoff run, and as a Delaware fan I would say going into December 19th, 2003

Never look a gift horse in the mouth

[Fordham]

Holy Cross' ceiling is high, but the rest of the league is just not good, especially out of league. ....

??

This past season we beat 3 CAA schools and lost 59-52 to the MAC champs and 1 pt on the road in overtime to HC. There's no way to lump us in with the rest of league as "just not good, especially out of league."

_______________________________

I think there are more tiers than usual in the PL.

HC is alone in their own tier at the top

Tier 2 - Fordham and Lafayette. We return more talent than you think on O and I don't know what our ceiling is on D but it can't be worse than last years with this year's new DC. Lafayette impresses me most with a very disciplined D and a very experienced and talented QB. Those two things make them tough imo.

Tier 3 - Colgate, Lehigh - the former leaders of the conference seem stuck in a quagmire. Until they show significant progress on the field I can't put them on par with Fordham or Lafayette.

Tier 4 - Gtown, Bucknell - can't find a pulse here.

[ngineer]

This looks right to me. If Lafayette doesn’t find a semblance of an offense, I think Lehigh is better than them. I’m just banking that Hunt and Cahill, who are strong offensive minds, can figure out a way to put points up against PL defenses.

That's what I think, too. Lafayette and Lehigh both have big question marks at QB that need to be answered. Lehigh needs to improve its kicking game (cost them 3 games last year). Biggest bugaboo could be depth if the injury bug bites.

[Go...gate]

It was almost shocking to see Colgate make that playoff run, and as a Delaware fan I would say going into December 19th, 2003

Never look a gift horse in the mouth

That was an outstanding season for Colgate and the Patriot League. That team was terrific top to bottom.

[Doc QB]

??

This past season we beat 3 CAA schools and lost 59-52 to the MAC champs and 1 pt on the road in overtime to HC. There's no way to lump us in with the rest of league as "just not good, especially out of league."

Not the same team or staff this year.
You lost a tremendous QB, two WR (I know you know this of course), and the OC and Oline coach.
I think that is tremendously significant and may place you closer to the rest of the pack than you would like to believe.
Happy to be completely wrong, as I always want at a minimum two PL teams capable of making noise OOC and in playoffs...if it's Fordham over my LU, so be it.
I dont see Fordham as solid as last year by a long shot.

[Lehigh 74]

Lafayette has at least the same qb as they've had for the last couple of years (barring injury) and their o-line is bound to be better assuming Notre Dame OT transfer, Olmstead, doesn't get hurt in the first game of the season again and the new Wake Forest transfer fits in well. They also have a preseason all league TE to target.

Trox and his staff damn near shocked the world against HC last year, beat Sacred Heart and hung tough with Temple...and they beat Lehigh. Unless this new coach at Lehigh is better well-beyond his luke warm reviews, Lafayette really ought to be better than the Mountain Hawks.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk


Really?? Lehigh totally dominated the game. Go back and look at the stats. With a competent coaching staff, the game wouldn't have been close.

[gravalico]

Really?? Lehigh totally dominated the game. Go back and look at the stats. With a competent coaching staff, the game wouldn't have been close.The benefit of winning the game means I don't have to go back and look at the stats. I can stop at the "W". You search for moral victories in the rest of the stats.

We won, so "totally dominated the game" might be a stretch. Your brand new coaching staff has to be viewed as a potential liability until they prove otherwise just as any coaching staff does. You have to assume there will be some bumps in the road this first year. All this to say I stand by my position that Lafayette really ought to be better than Lehigh.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

[Go Green]

The benefit of winning the game means I don't have to go back and look at the stats. I can stop at the "W". You search for moral victories in the rest of the stats.



I agree with you in principle.

That said, if Colgate guys want to claim that they should have won in 2005 because they really manhandled Dartmouth.... I'm not going to argue. They were the better team, but somehow we pulled a rabbit out of our hats.

Dartmouth Football Earns Victory in Season Opener - Dartmouth College Athletics (dartmouthsports.com) (https://dartmouthsports.com/news/2006/10/2/622552.aspx)

[gravalico]

I agree with you in principle.

That said, if Colgate guys want to claim that they should have won in 2005 because they really manhandled Dartmouth.... I'm not going to argue. They were the better team, but somehow we pulled a rabbit out of our hats.

Dartmouth Football Earns Victory in Season Opener - Dartmouth College Athletics (dartmouthsports.com) (https://dartmouthsports.com/news/2006/10/2/622552.aspx)As years pass only a select few Colgate guys will remember they really manhandled Dartmouth. The W is forever and more than enough for the casual observers. #603, #granitestate, #livefreeordie

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[Ramblin' Man]

Now that the CAA has changed its name from Colonial Athletic Association to Coastal Athletic Association, dropping "Colonial," perhaps the Patriot League can return to its original name: the Colonial League. xsmiley_wix

[Go...gate]

Now that the CAA has changed its name from Colonial Athletic Association to Coastal Athletic Association, dropping "Colonial," perhaps the Patriot League can return to its original name: the Colonial League. xsmiley_wix

Say WHAT????

[RichH2]

Now that the CAA has changed its name from Colonial Athletic Association to Coastal Athletic Association, dropping "Colonial," perhaps the Patriot League can return to its original name: the Colonial League. xsmiley_wix

Ah back to the start of the Ivy Lite version of this conference. The PL has been a mediocre mess other than Cross and perhaps Fordham for years now. Will any of the others show any actual improvement? Dunno.
Hope so. I would rather the PL strive to achieve even in its current half ass way.. Rather than retreat into a minor appendage to the Ivies..

[FUBeAR]

Now that the CAA has changed its name from Colonial Athletic Association to Coastal Athletic Association, dropping "Colonial," perhaps the Patriot League can return to its original name: the Colonial League. xsmiley_wix
* Atheltic

[Ramblin' Man]

* Atheltic

Huh???

What, exactly, is "Atheltic" and how does it relate to my post?

[Bill]

Maybe FUBear thought the league was originally called the Colonial Athletic League, thought he omitted the word Athletic, and then just spelled it incorrectly?

[Fordham]

Not the same team or staff this year.
You lost a tremendous QB, two WR (I know you know this of course), and the OC and Oline coach.
I think that is tremendously significant and may place you closer to the rest of the pack than you would like to believe.
Happy to be completely wrong, as I always want at a minimum two PL teams capable of making noise OOC and in playoffs...if it's Fordham over my LU, so be it.
I dont see Fordham as solid as last year by a long shot.

The part you quoted was in response to DFW's post about only HC being good recently compared to the "halcyon days" of the PL. I stand by my point that we've been good enough out of conference (especially last year) to not be lumped in with the rest of the non-Crusader PL.

Maybe you meant to quote the bottom part of my post instead. If so, I can't push back on the fact that we did lose an awful lot. I'm still very bullish given what we've brought in as well as what we return on the OL, RB, TE and, yes, WR. If our FBS transfer QB is a gamer the offense will be outstanding. Seeing him the Spring game, he's as mobile a QB as I can remember seeing in the PL. The questions surround his accuracy and gamesmanship - something we can't know until the games start. When you combine a QB with his scrambling ability with Loughridge and the Utah RB transfer, I think we'll put up enough points on O to put us squarely in that second tier with a chance to go higher if he can throw well and based on how much our D can improve with a new DC (cause it couldn't possibly be worse). Again, though, that's with rose-hill colored lenses - I get it, so your questioning is not off the mark.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The benefit of winning the game means I don't have to go back and look at the stats. I can stop at the "W". You search for moral victories in the rest of the stats.

We won, so "totally dominated the game" might be a stretch. Your brand new coaching staff has to be viewed as a potential liability until they prove otherwise just as any coaching staff does. You have to assume there will be some bumps in the road this first year. All this to say I stand by my position that Lafayette really ought to be better than Lehigh.

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Lehigh's staff literally could not be any worse than the one they had. Gilmore and Brisson absolutely gutted the moral and potential of the program during their time on South Mountain. I firmly believe a staff composed of myself, DocQB, RichH, Ngineer, Hawkineer, and Southsider could have won 4 games last year. While I have questions about Cahill's and Hunt's ability individually to establish a consistently dynamic offense given their track records, I am hopeful the two benefit from each other's general acumen. Defensively, the new DC's resume is legitimately sketchy. However, he did bring in some good assistants and Kashurba is still there to offer some insight. He was one of the few coaches on Gilmore's staff that had a clue. Although, the big play was always a problem. Hopefully Kasurba transitions well into his new role as special teams coordinator.

Trust me, I really wish Lehigh hired a proven winner from the D2 or D3 level. But all things considered, a well respected assistant from Yale and a motivated former PL coach with a better track record than Gilmore as a lead assistant and a former FBS DC/D3 Head Coach (granted an ugly record) provides some reason for optimism. Lehigh is not a difficult place to win ALL THINGS considered. The platform, although evolved given today's social climate, still supports Top 25 success. The continued investment in facilities shows that while Lehigh might no longer have a 1970s, 80s, 90s or even 00s athletic culture, holistic success/winning still very much matters.

I will be disappointed if the Villanova game is not competitive. The Wildcats always win against the PL, but it can be a struggle. An improved Lehigh team should be able to give a mid-pack CAA squad a good game.

[gravalico]

Lehigh's staff literally could not be any worse than the one they had. Gilmore and Brisson absolutely gutted the moral and potential of the program during their time on South Mountain. I firmly believe a staff composed of myself, DocQB, RichH, Ngineer, Hawkineer, and Southsider could have won 4 games last year. While I have questions about Cahill's and Hunt's ability individually to establish a consistently dynamic offense given their track records, I am hopeful the two benefit from each other's general acumen. Defensively, the new DC's resume is legitimately sketchy. However, he did bring in some good assistants and Kashurba is still there to offer some insight. He was one of the few coaches on Gilmore's staff that had a clue. Although, the big play was always a problem. Hopefully Kasurba transitions well into his new role as special teams coordinator.

Trust me, I really wish Lehigh hired a proven winner from the D2 or D3 level. But all things considered, a well respected assistant from Yale and a motivated former PL coach with a better track record than Gilmore as a lead assistant and a former FBS DC/D3 Head Coach (granted an ugly record) provides some reason for optimism. Lehigh is not a difficult place to win ALL THINGS considered. The platform, although evolved given today's social climate, still supports Top 25 success. The continued investment in facilities shows that while Lehigh might no longer have a 1970s, 80s, 90s or even 00s athletic culture, holistic success/winning still very much matters.

I will be disappointed if the Villanova game is not competitive. The Wildcats always win against the PL, but it can be a struggle. An improved Lehigh team should be able to give a mid-pack CAA squad a good game.I hear you. Lafayette suffered 5 years of the Garrett era (cue the gagging sounds). A more inept coach who was mailing it in would be hard to find. In my opinion PL followers love to over think things. They speak of HC and Fordham's success as though the final determinations have been made and the winners and losers are set in stone in perpetuity. The fact is this **** is cyclical. It always has been and always will be. It's the nature of the beast because the fact of the matter is, for long term success in sports, you need to have strong, supportive pieces in place in the President's office, the AD's office and, of course the HC. It's like a house of cards. All three are required for any real stability. And how long can that realistically last? People move on eventually. Particularly successful people.

So HC and Fordham are on top for now and likely will be for at least a few more years to come. And then some dynamic will change and they will need to rebuild. HC has the ultimate example of this in the Duffner era. That program was dominant to the tune of national rankings and even a Heisman candidate. And then Duffner left and down HC went.

My optimism is rooted in a Lafayette program that seems to have all three pieces in place for the first time in a long time. I'm also optimistic because John now has his dream job. He has no aspirations beyond rebuilding the Lafayette football program. That's one long term piece. And I know Trox is working hard to maximize his time. And even if he's wildly successful, that too shall pass.

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[crusader11]

HC has the ultimate example of this in the Duffner era. That program was dominant to the tune of national rankings and even a Heisman candidate. And then Duffner left and down HC went.


It wasn’t Duffner leaving, but rather going non-scholarship that was the primary reason for the downward spiral in the mid-90s.

Agree with your larger point that the ebbs and flows of PL programs are cyclical. That said, if Chesney stays at HC for a while, it’s difficult to see another program overtaking them. They’re recruiting at totally different level compared to other PL programs.

[Southsider]

Lehigh's staff literally could not be any worse than the one they had. Gilmore and Brisson absolutely gutted the moral and potential of the program during their time on South Mountain. I firmly believe a staff composed of myself, DocQB, RichH, Ngineer, Hawkineer, and Southsider could have won 4 games last year. While I have questions about Cahill's and Hunt's ability individually to establish a consistently dynamic offense given their track records, I am hopeful the two benefit from each other's general acumen. Defensively, the new DC's resume is legitimately sketchy. However, he did bring in some good assistants and Kashurba is still there to offer some insight. He was one of the few coaches on Gilmore's staff that had a clue. Although, the big play was always a problem. Hopefully Kasurba transitions well into his new role as special teams coordinator.

Trust me, I really wish Lehigh hired a proven winner from the D2 or D3 level. But all things considered, a well respected assistant from Yale and a motivated former PL coach with a better track record than Gilmore as a lead assistant and a former FBS DC/D3 Head Coach (granted an ugly record) provides some reason for optimism. Lehigh is not a difficult place to win ALL THINGS considered. The platform, although evolved given today's social climate, still supports Top 25 success. The continued investment in facilities shows that while Lehigh might no longer have a 1970s, 80s, 90s or even 00s athletic culture, holistic success/winning still very much matters.

I will be disappointed if the Villanova game is not competitive. The Wildcats always win against the PL, but it can be a struggle. An improved Lehigh team should be able to give a mid-pack CAA squad a good game.


Spot on Owl! I am looking forward to Sept. 2. I will be happy to keep Nova under 35 pts. and put up at least 21. We'll see.

[gravalico]

It wasn’t Duffner leaving, but rather going non-scholarship that was the primary reason for the downward spiral in the mid-90s.

Agree with your larger point that the ebbs and flows of PL programs are cyclical. That said, if Chesney stays at HC for a while, it’s difficult to see another program overtaking them. They’re recruiting at totally different level compared to other PL programs.Yes you are correct. Obviously Duffner left, in large part, because of the scholarship issue. But he was also heavily courted by 1A programs. It certainly seems as though Chesney is happy at HC for the foreseeable future which is great for the Crusaders (and begrudgingly I admit...the league). Will he succumb to the siren's call of the "big time" some day? Who knows. He's young enough to have higher aspirations. And then there are the other dynamics that could change. As for the Crusaders recruiting on a different level...well yeah...success breeds success. The opposite is true as well.

I guess the best possible outcome would be a couple of other programs follow suit and the PL becomes a league that puts a couple of teams in the playoffs every year. It would make for a lot more exciting league that's for sure. And it would be the tide that floats all PL boats. That would be good enough for me. I don't think we need to be the next CAA. Just three or four teams battling it out until the end of the season every year would suffice.

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[Fordham]

It wasn’t Duffner leaving, but rather going non-scholarship that was the primary reason for the downward spiral in the mid-90s.

Agree with your larger point that the ebbs and flows of PL programs are cyclical. That said, if Chesney stays at HC for a while, it’s difficult to see another program overtaking them. They’re recruiting at totally different level compared to other PL programs.

Totally agree with this. I think we're in a period where Fordham and HC have shown the most institutional commitment to football and that's more compelling to an aspiring coach than a program where that's in question. Lehigh, Lafayette & Colgate all had much stronger commitments than Fordham through the 80's, 90's and early 2000's. That has waned to varying degrees at each since.

Show me which Athletic Dept and alumni groups are newly working in concert around football at Gate, LU, LC, Bucknell or Gtown and I'd put my money there for the school that will make the next run to the top tier.

[MR. CHICKEN]

32902

.....ANYONE...NOTICE....DUH FUN......SOGONERS & CAA'ers....ARE HAVIN'.......WHILST....DUH PATSY's........ARE SERIOUS....AS UH....IN-GROWN TOENAIL.......xconfusedx......AWK!

[Fordham]

32902

.....ANYONE...NOTICE....DUH FUN......SOGONERS & CAA'ers....ARE HAVIN'.......WHILST....DUH PATSY's........ARE SERIOUS....AS UH....IN-GROWN TOENAIL.......xconfusedx......AWK!

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/mcs/media/images/74284000/jpg/_74284187_dv1560017.jpg

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Totally agree with this. I think we're in a period where Fordham and HC have shown the most institutional commitment to football and that's more compelling to an aspiring coach than a program where that's in question. Lehigh, Lafayette & Colgate all had much stronger commitments than Fordham through the 80's, 90's and early 2000's. That has waned to varying degrees at each since.

Show me which Athletic Dept and alumni groups are newly working in concert around football at Gate, LU, LC, Bucknell or Gtown and I'd put my money there for the school that will make the next run to the top tier.

Lehigh has arguably had the most consistent institutional commitment over last 50 years of any program in the league. The only caveat being in the mid 80s through early 90s when, like Colgate and Holy Cross, they had to de-emphasize the program to an extent to fit into the Colonial/PL parameters. The Delaware rivalry became one sided and outside of 1991 Lehigh was off the national radar until the "Playoff Era" started.

Lafayette was a glorified D3 program by the late 1990s. The school took a vote iirc to determine if the program should remain D1, move to D3 (maybe even dropped all together?). Fisher Field was literally falling apart and the Leopards, while having some modest success in the early 90s, were stuck in a rut for a while. If it wasn't for the financial support of a wealthy alum or two, I am not sure the vote to stay in the PL happens and/or the Leopards experience any semblance of the 2004-2009 resurrection under Tavani.

Lehigh was nationally relevant until early 2017 when Coen's health really started to take its toll. Their recent dip is rather easily explained. The hiring of Gilmore was absolutely an institutional failure but they made sure he didn't stick around too long by PL standards (3 full seasons). The cupboard is not bare. If this staff is able to take advantage of the platform Lehigh football provides combined with the ability to add a key transfer or two, there is no doubt in my mind the program still maintains the pedigree/resources to challenge Chesney and Holy Cross next year.

Look what Moorhead did at Fordham in 2 years.

[Fordham]

There's no question that Lehigh could easily turn it around but I thought there were questions surrounding Sterret and maybe the admin's commitment. If not, it could and should turn around easily. With the academics and facilities, Lehigh should be competing for the top of the PL consistently imo. LC & Gate as well but none more than Lehigh imo.

For Fordham, without the admin prioritizing football there is no Clawson, no Moorhead, no Conlin imo.

[Lehigh 74]

Lehigh is in the process of building a new 94,000 square foot indoor practice facility, made possible by an $8 million gift from an anonymous donor:

https://lehighsports.com/news/2022/8/16/general-8-million-gift-launches-athletics-capital-renovations-and-expansion.aspx

Not sure how much it might help recruiting, but it certainly can't hurt.

[Fordham]

Lehigh is in the process of building a new 94,000 square foot indoor practice facility, made possible by an $8 million gift from an anonymous donor:

https://lehighsports.com/news/2022/8/16/general-8-million-gift-launches-athletics-capital-renovations-and-expansion.aspx

Not sure how much it might help recruiting, but it certainly can't hurt.

Wow! That’s great and I do think these things help immensely

[RichH2]

Lehigh is in the process of building a new 94,000 square foot indoor practice facility, made possible by an $8 million gift from an anonymous donor:

https://lehighsports.com/news/2022/8/16/general-8-million-gift-launches-athletics-capital-renovations-and-expansion.aspx

Not sure how much it might help recruiting, but it certainly can't hurt.

That and the expansion of Condey Varsity House will be a boost for the program and recruiting. The prospects all do the summer Camp tours. Having top level facilities a must

[Bill]

That and the expansion of Condey Varsity House will be a boost for the program and recruiting. The prospects all do the summer Camp tours. Having top level facilities a must

I was by for reunion this summer, and drove over. There is certainly a big hole in the ground ;)

The new building is taking the spot of one of the three practice fields...they will have a grass one and a turf one for football (next to each other) when this is all done.

[Doc QB]

I was by for reunion this summer, and drove over. There is certainly a big hole in the ground ;)

The new building is taking the spot of one of the three practice fields...they will have a grass one and a turf one for football (next to each other) when this is all done.
Phase one has a new football only turn field. Its the big hole in the ground, and construction has taken the middle of the three practice fields for now.
When complete, the middle field will likely stay in construction zone, as the practice field closest to Rauch Field House, will house the new indoor facility. Phase two I believe.
Phase three, is a large addition to the Varsity House, new football locker room and weight room, onto front of existing building. It will be akin to football facilities at higher level programs for sure.
Amazing that the arms race, facility wise, has reached the PL.
I'm pretty sure Chick out at Bucknell got funding for a football building, to be put behind the pressbox of ChristyMath stadium.

[Fordham]

I'm pretty sure Chick out at Bucknell got funding for a football building, to be put behind the pressbox of ChristyMath stadium.
how many scholarships is Bucknell giving now?

[Go...gate]

how many scholarships is Bucknell giving now?

I don't believe they have ever given the limit of sixty.

I thought I had heard forty back around 2018-19....

[FUBeAR]

I don't believe they have ever given the limit of sixty.

I thought I had heard forty back around 2018-19....
No knowledge of Bucknell … but schools have to give at least 90% of 63 schollies (so…57+) to ‘count’ toward bowl eligibility requirements for FBS Teams. Bucknell is ‘getting’ FBS games…so it would seem more likely than not that they are providing at least 57 scholarships.

[MR. CHICKEN]

No knowledge of Bucknell … but schools have to give at least 90% of 63 schollies (so…57) to ‘count’ toward bowl eligibility requirements for FBS Teams. Bucknell is ‘getting’ FBS games…so it would seem more likely than not that they are providing at least 57 scholarships.

.......AH LEARN SOMP'IN'.....HERE....EVERAH DAY..........BAWQ!

[ngineer]

For those considering Georgetown sixth (or higher), this cautionary note: the Hoyas return one starter on offense this season.

But, they do have some very good players on defense. If they can keep games close, a turnover here and there could result in some W's.

[ngineer]

That and the expansion of Condey Varsity House will be a boost for the program and recruiting. The prospects all do the summer Camp tours. Having top level facilities a must

Yes, this project certainly shows Lehigh's interest in being competitive in the sports aspect. There certainly wouldn't be such an effort if there was any planned 'downgrade' of the programs. There is, however, the constant tension among the alums v. the administration as to certain sports not getting enough attention (i.e. constant debate/bickering among the wrestling alums that despite having one of, in not the, best facility in the country, the University has somehow 'downgraded' wrestling due to the attention of other sports (i.e. lacrosse, softball, basketball, field hockey, etc,). I agree with a prior post that Lehigh's recent slide was one created in a 'perfect storm' with Cohen's health issue, that was not discovered/addressed as soon as everyone would have liked that led to reduced recruiting, compounded by the COVID pandemic, and the error in hiring Gilmore. Lehigh has always had a competitive spirit and the current state of affairs is not acceptable to a good number of people. This project underscores the school's commitment to return to relevancy in the national picture as it relates to our peers. I would be very pleased with a six win season as a good springboard moving forward.

[RichH2]

Yes, this project certainly shows Lehigh's interest in being competitive in the sports aspect. There certainly wouldn't be such an effort if there was any planned 'downgrade' of the programs. There is, however, the constant tension among the alums v. the administration as to certain sports not getting enough attention (i.e. constant debate/bickering among the wrestling alums that despite having one of, in not the, best facility in the country, the University has somehow 'downgraded' wrestling due to the attention of other sports (i.e. lacrosse, softball, basketball, field hockey, etc,). I agree with a prior post that Lehigh's recent slide was one created in a 'perfect storm' with Cohen's health issue, that was not discovered/addressed as soon as everyone would have liked that led to reduced recruiting, compounded by the COVID pandemic, and the error in hiring Gilmore. Lehigh has always had a competitive spirit and the current state of affairs is not acceptable to a good number of people. This project underscores the school's commitment to return to relevancy in the national picture as it relates to our peers. I would be very pleased with a six win season as a good springboard moving forward.

+1. A "perfect storm" the right caption for LU's slide starting with Andy's health. It does not nor should it define Lehigh football.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Good piece from Craig Haley on Lehigh Football

https://theanalyst.com/na/2023/07/lehigh-hopes-to-be-ahead-of-schedule-in-holy-cross-led-patriot-league-race/

[Go...gate]

No knowledge of Bucknell … but schools have to give at least 90% of 63 schollies (so…57+) to ‘count’ toward bowl eligibility requirements for FBS Teams. Bucknell is ‘getting’ FBS games…so it would seem more likely than not that they are providing at least 57 scholarships.

That's good news.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Yes, this project certainly shows Lehigh's interest in being competitive in the sports aspect. There certainly wouldn't be such an effort if there was any planned 'downgrade' of the programs. There is, however, the constant tension among the alums v. the administration as to certain sports not getting enough attention (i.e. constant debate/bickering among the wrestling alums that despite having one of, in not the, best facility in the country, the University has somehow 'downgraded' wrestling due to the attention of other sports (i.e. lacrosse, softball, basketball, field hockey, etc,). I agree with a prior post that Lehigh's recent slide was one created in a 'perfect storm' with Cohen's health issue, that was not discovered/addressed as soon as everyone would have liked that led to reduced recruiting, compounded by the COVID pandemic, and the error in hiring Gilmore. Lehigh has always had a competitive spirit and the current state of affairs is not acceptable to a good number of people. This project underscores the school's commitment to return to relevancy in the national picture as it relates to our peers. I would be very pleased with a six win season as a good springboard moving forward.

The ongoing AD "situation" at Lehigh combined with the social transformation in higher ed has led to the disconnect between institutional objectives and program (football, bball, softball, track and field, golf, etc) goals. Either Sterrett needs to formally retire so Troyan can fully assume the reins or there needs to be a more transparent delineation of responsibilities for the sake of internal and external supporters.

Maybe Sterrett is waiting for football to get back to its winning ways so he can officially retire? I have to think the circumstances (Coen's passing, Covid, this bizarre AD arrangement imo, and the Gilmore debacle) surrounding the last 5-6 years has been extremely hard on him.

It's no secret things have been far from "perfect" on South Mountain (likewise in Hamilton after the "Moore Mess") in recent years but it hasn't been a disaster either. A lack of continuity has simply compromised potential imo. But the overall foundation is still very strong and generally supportive of success as defined by wins and losses.

[ngineer]

The ongoing AD "situation" at Lehigh combined with the social transformation in higher ed has led to the disconnect between institutional objectives and program (football, bball, softball, track and field, golf, etc) goals. Either Sterrett needs to formally retire so Troyan can fully assume the reins or there needs to be a more transparent delineation of responsibilities for the sake of internal and external supporters.

Maybe Sterrett is waiting for football to get back to its winning ways so he can officially retire? I have to think the circumstances (Coen's passing, Covid, this bizarre AD arrangement imo, and the Gilmore debacle) surrounding the last 5-6 years has been extremely hard on him.

It's no secret things have been far from "perfect" on South Mountain (likewise in Hamilton after the "Moore Mess") in recent years but it hasn't been a disaster either. A lack of continuity has simply compromised potential imo. But the overall foundation is still very strong and generally supportive of success as defined by wins and losses.

yes, I think your first sentence touches on the problem for those college conferences that are trying to be competitive both in the academic and athletic world. The student culture has changed significantly in the last 20 years. The sparse attendance at all sport events is sad to see. It was such a bonding experience in he past. At the same time, Lehigh is showing no reluctance in saying to the future that sports are still important. Seems like a lot of moving parts, at present, with capital improvements, coaching changes and changes in athletic administration. Joe has invested his life in Lehigh. And while there have been some mistakes, I think his overall stewardship of the athletics program has been very good and that he is currently working on the transition, and is giving Sue the opportunity to gradually assimilate into “chair” as opposed to a sudden change. How one does that “ more publicly” is beyond my pay grade.i

[Go...gate]

The ongoing AD "situation" at Lehigh combined with the social transformation in higher ed has led to the disconnect between institutional objectives and program (football, bball, softball, track and field, golf, etc) goals. Either Sterrett needs to formally retire so Troyan can fully assume the reins or there needs to be a more transparent delineation of responsibilities for the sake of internal and external supporters.

Maybe Sterrett is waiting for football to get back to its winning ways so he can officially retire? I have to think the circumstances (Coen's passing, Covid, this bizarre AD arrangement imo, and the Gilmore debacle) surrounding the last 5-6 years has been extremely hard on him.

It's no secret things have been far from "perfect" on South Mountain (likewise in Hamilton after the "Moore Mess") in recent years but it hasn't been a disaster either. A lack of continuity has simply compromised potential imo. But the overall foundation is still very strong and generally supportive of success as defined by wins and losses.


Fran Troyan was my law school classmate. A terrific family.

[RichH2]

yes, I think your first sentence touches on the problem for those college conferences that are trying to be competitive both in the academic and athletic world. The student culture has changed significantly in the last 20 years. The sparse attendance at all sport events is sad to see. It was such a bonding experience in he past. At the same time, Lehigh is showing no reluctance in saying to the future that sports are still important. Seems like a lot of moving parts, at present, with capital improvements, coaching changes and changes in athletic administration. Joe has invested his life in Lehigh. And while there have been some mistakes, I think his overall stewardship of the athletics program has been very good and that he is currently working on the transition, and is giving Sue the opportunity to gradually assimilate into “chair” as opposed to a sudden change. How one does that “ more publicly” is beyond my pay grade.i

Mistakes were made and compounded by inaction. Infuriating time. Only issue now is Cahill the man to get this program back to the top. Hope so.

[gravalico]

Mistakes were made and compounded by inaction. Infuriating time. Only issue now is Cahill the man to get this program back to the top. Hope so.I hope he's the man to bring the program second to the top. [emoji12]

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[DFW HOYA]

Another school deemed not good enough for the rare air of PL football takes a step upward:

https://caasports.com/news/2023/8/9/caa-football-welcomes-bryant-university-as-its-newest-member-in-2024.aspx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Another school deemed not good enough for the rare air of PL football takes a step upward:

https://caasports.com/news/2023/8/9/caa-football-welcomes-bryant-university-as-its-newest-member-in-2024.aspx

The CAA can have them. This is not a slight to Bryant in terms of their aspirations but, honestly, what would Bryant provide the PL at this point? Personally, I am not a big fan of the direction the CAA is heading overall outside of bringing in institutions with various missions. This is one area where I have long wanted the PL to improve on. I firmly believe, UNH, Maine, Delaware, URI and Stony Brook are excellent public options to improve the PL's overall perception in the 2020s. Stop trying to hold onto the 1980s and even 1990s elitist mindset.

Outside of the Ivy League, I can't see the mid to low tier D1 Northeast athletic conferences being free from re-alignment. Something further will give. Will the PL be involved? Despite their glacial history of movement on the football side of things, I think they will.....

[Doc QB]

Another school deemed not good enough for the rare air of PL football takes a step upward:

https://caasports.com/news/2023/8/9/caa-football-welcomes-bryant-university-as-its-newest-member-in-2024.aspx

The PL majority will probably think, "who cares, its Bryant."
But the move shows two things to me:
1) Bryant is emphasizing their football program with money and resources enough to be attractive to the CAA (a la Monmouth, Stoney Brook, Albany of years gone by).
2) and more interesting, PL schools passed over (for Bryant) for a slot to make CAA 16?

Aside from another school potentially passing us by, the latter point deserves discussion, right?
Was there conversations and no PL program interest to move, or worse, did the CAA have no interest in PL programs?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The PL majority will probably think, "who cares, its Bryant."
But the move shows two things to me:
1) Bryant is emphasizing their football program with money and resources enough to be attractive to the CAA (a la Monmouth, Stoney Brook, Albany of years gone by).
2) and more interesting, PL schools passed over (for Bryant) for a slot to make CAA 16?

Aside from another school potentially passing us by, the latter point deserves discussion, right?
Was there conversations and no PL program interest to move, or worse, did the CAA have no interest in PL programs?

But what are those programs (Monmouth, SBU, Albany and Bryant) getting for their investment? Granted, the same could be said for several PL programs as things currently stand. My point being, outside of Georgetown and Bucknell I don't see a lack of commitment from PL programs when it comes to facilities and general financial allocation. There is naturally going to be a disparity of commitment within the CAA too; but with 16 teams. I'll still bet on Holy Cross's, Lehigh's, Colgate's and Fordham's ability to exceed "those program's" ceiling by remaining committed to the PL platform.

The best of the best from the PL can compete with the best teams from the CAA. That has been proven in the playoffs. The PL problem remains depth.

I have to think the CAA at least approached 3-4 (Colgate, Fordham, Holy Cross and Lehigh?) PL programs. I'm just not sure why any of them would leave at this point given the current landscape of the CAA and D1 college athletics in general.

[Go...gate]

Another school deemed not good enough for the rare air of PL football takes a step upward:

https://caasports.com/news/2023/8/9/caa-football-welcomes-bryant-university-as-its-newest-member-in-2024.aspx

I don't believe they ever approached us.

[Southsider]

Looks like the Lehigh Fan Forum site has been hacked? Anyone see it lately?

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like the Lehigh Fan Forum site has been hacked? Anyone see it lately?

[RichH2]

[QUOTE=Southsider;3134891]Looks like the Lehigh Fan Forum site has been hacked? Anyone see it lately?

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like the Lehigh Fan Forum site has been hacked? Anyone see it lately?[/QUOTE


Yup. Chuck is aware. A real mess.. Hope it is fixable.

[Doc QB]

But what are those programs (Monmouth, SBU, Albany and Bryant) getting for their investment?

I have to think the CAA at least approached 3-4 (Colgate, Fordham, Holy Cross and Lehigh?) PL programs. I'm just not sure why any of them would leave at this point given the current landscape of the CAA and D1 college athletics in general.

What have those programs gotten...gotten into a better league rep wise.
And your last point, I dont think they were approached at all (and we may never know), and I dont think that is a good thing.

[RichH2]

Looks like the Lehigh Fan Forum site has been hacked? Anyone see it lately?

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like the Lehigh Fan Forum site has been hacked? Anyone see it lately?

Fixed

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

What have those programs gotten...gotten into a better league rep wise.
And your last point, I dont think they were approached at all (and we may never know), and I dont think that is a good thing.

The CAA has a better rep than the PL no question. The PL has been a one or two team deep conference for well over a decade. I have harped on this point for years given the lack of accountability from both the institutions who aren't holding up their end of the bargain (aspiring for success) and the league office sitting on their hands without trying something to shake things up.

With that said, the CAA has a growing disparity between the haves and have nots relative to facilities, institutional resources, geographical footprint (recruiting), pedigree etc. I look at the CAA as nothing more than a scheduling arrangement for a significant number of Northeast and Mid-Atlantic programs. There will be zero continuity when it comes to SOS.

In terms of courtship, I was speaking in general. I'd hedge my bets that since the A10's demise and the formation of the CAA there have been overtures made. The extent of them? That's for a fly on the wall to know. But at the very least, an email was sent, a phone call was made, an inquiry was made at a social engagement, etc. As for recently? Maybe, maybe not....

[DFW HOYA]

Colgate announces the death of former Red Raiders coach Dick Biddle, 75.

In 18 seasons, he won seven PL titles and finished second in seven more.

https://twitter.com/ColgateFB/status/1691183307721977857

[NY Crusader 2010]

But what are those programs (Monmouth, SBU, Albany and Bryant) getting for their investment? Granted, the same could be said for several PL programs as things currently stand. My point being, outside of Georgetown and Bucknell I don't see a lack of commitment from PL programs when it comes to facilities and general financial allocation. There is naturally going to be a disparity of commitment within the CAA too; but with 16 teams. I'll still bet on Holy Cross's, Lehigh's, Colgate's and Fordham's ability to exceed "those program's" ceiling by remaining committed to the PL platform.

The best of the best from the PL can compete with the best teams from the CAA. That has been proven in the playoffs. The PL problem remains depth.

I have to think the CAA at least approached 3-4 (Colgate, Fordham, Holy Cross and Lehigh?) PL programs. I'm just not sure why any of them would leave at this point given the current landscape of the CAA and D1 college athletics in general.

I actually doubt the CAA approached any of us. I believe they see Bryant as the best contender out there to become the next all-sports member of the CAA. As I've mentioned probably a dozen times here, the CAA really had no need to add football affiliates. IMO, they are looking to groom the next "up-and-comer" that fits their league profile and Bryant may be that school. Fordham doesn't check that box, as they are not leaving the A-10 any time soon. Holy Cross would be a fit....if we were interested. Given that there wasn't even a hint of a rumor about HC during the last round of robust CAA expansion in 2021, safe to assume we have zero interest.

[Gate83]

Colgate announces the death of former Red Raiders coach Dick Biddle, 75.

In 18 seasons, he won seven PL titles and finished second in seven more.


He struggled with Alzheimer's/dementia in his years since retirement, godspeed.

[Go...gate]

He struggled with Alzheimer's/dementia in his years since retirement, godspeed.

Terribly sad news. A Colgate treasure.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

He struggled with Alzheimer's/dementia in his years since retirement, godspeed.

Terribly sad to hear! His impact was institutionally wide! With that said, football wise "Biddle Ball" was perfect for those season games in Hamilton. He was truly a one of one.....

[Southsider]

Boy, always dreaded going up against his teams. Great coach!

- - - Updated - - -

Boy, always dreaded going up against his teams. Great coach!

[NY Crusader 2010]

RIP Coach Biddle and my condolences to his family. His teams were always a force to be reckoned with.

[Kramden]

RIP to Coach Biddle and Condolnces to his family. He was tough as nails and so were his teams; something the program seems to be lacking since his departure.

[Fordham]

RIP Coach Biddle!! Legendary PL coach. Respect!

[Southsider]

RIP to Coach Biddle and Condolnces to his family. He was tough as nails and so were his teams; something the program seems to be lacking since his departure.

And from other teams in the league..........

[crusader11]

Dick Biddle is a legend.

I think he'd have to be considered the best coach in PL football history.

I always got a kick of how he didn't wear a headset on the sidelines.

RIP.

[ngineer]

Dick Biddle is a legend.

I think he'd have to be considered the best coach in PL football history.

I always got a kick of how he didn't wear a headset on the sidelines.

RIP.

1. Agreed
2. Certainly in the discussion, and certainly on the PL's "Mount Rushmore" if we had one.
3. Absolutely. Talk about "old school"! I used to love watching him with my binoculars during our games with Colgate as he would walk with his head down, arms folded across his chest, down the sideline. You could see the wheels turning and the steam flowing from his musings. Iconic.
Rest in Peace, Coach. You did a heck of a job and truly earned the ultimate title: "A Good Man".

[ngineer]

The PL majority will probably think, "who cares, its Bryant."
But the move shows two things to me:
1) Bryant is emphasizing their football program with money and resources enough to be attractive to the CAA (a la Monmouth, Stoney Brook, Albany of years gone by).
2) and more interesting, PL schools passed over (for Bryant) for a slot to make CAA 16?

Aside from another school potentially passing us by, the latter point deserves discussion, right?
Was there conversations and no PL program interest to move, or worse, did the CAA have no interest in PL programs?

I doubt the PL would have any interest in joining the CAA. The great majority of the CAA does not fit the "PL footprint", in the view of the PL Presidents as to academic rigor and athletic philosophy, and that is who makes the call. The PL and the IL have always been on their own little islands and I don't see any interest in wanting to build a bridge to the 'mainland' beyond the connections we currently have via OOC games and NCAA playoffs; which also raises a question as to in what form the NCAA will even exist in couple years in light of the ridiculousness occurring among the "power conferences".

[DFW HOYA]

I doubt the PL would have any interest in joining the CAA. The great majority of the CAA does not fit the "PL footprint", in the view of the PL Presidents as to academic rigor and athletic philosophy, and that is who makes the call. The PL and the IL have always been on their own little islands and I don't see any interest in wanting to build a bridge to the 'mainland' beyond the connections we currently have via OOC games and NCAA playoffs; which also raises a question as to in what form the NCAA will even exist in couple years in light of the ridiculousness occurring among the "power conferences".

That scheduling bridge to the Ivy is almost nonexistent for Fordham and Georgetown. The Rams have one Ivy opponent on schedules after 2023, Georgetown one after 2024. The Ivies have opted to pick up Pioneer games in lieu of these schools.

[Go Green]

That scheduling bridge to the Ivy is almost nonexistent for Fordham and Georgetown. The Rams have one Ivy opponent on schedules after 2023, Georgetown one after 2024. The Ivies have opted to pick up Pioneer games in lieu of these schools.

One Ivy opponent, but two games for Fordham (home/away with Dartmouth in 2024 & 2025). How many Ivies does Fordham prefer to play a year? If they prefer to play Nebraska rather than Columbia, then good for them.

And while Dartmouth doesn't have Georgetown on any future schedules, we don't have any PFL schools either. Through 2029, we only have PL schools, CAA schools, CCSU, and Army. There are some openings through. So maybe we will give Georgetown a call. My understanding is that the team enjoyed visiting DC back in 2015.

[KPSUL]

One Ivy opponent, but two games for Fordham (home/away with Dartmouth in 2024 & 2025). How many Ivies does Fordham prefer to play a year? If they prefer to play Nebraska rather than Columbia, then good for them.

And while Dartmouth doesn't have Georgetown on any future schedules, we don't have any PFL schools either. Through 2029, we only have PL schools, CAA schools, CCSU, and Army. There are some openings through. So maybe we will give Georgetown a call. My understanding is that the team enjoyed visiting DC back in 2015.

So I know this is a Patriot thread, but I have Ivy questions. (Should be OK, the PL guys have stolen enough threads themselves) So how is it that Nick Howard is back with the Green Machine? I thought I saw his name in a portal tracker. Is he likely to be splitting time at QB with someone who throws the ball better? Is Cadwallader his biggest competition for playing time? Does anyone else look good at QB?

[Go Green]

So I know this is a Patriot thread, but I have Ivy questions. (Should be OK, the PL guys have stolen enough threads themselves) So how is it that Nick Howard is back with the Green Machine? I thought I saw his name in a portal tracker. Is he likely to be splitting time at QB with someone who throws the ball better? Is Cadwallader his biggest competition for playing time? Does anyone else look good at QB?

Howard is a fifth year player who lost a season to COVID. My best guess is that he didn't find any good offers through the transfer portal, so he opted to return to Dartmouth. While he had a great 2021, he was hampered by injuries and an inexperienced OLine in 2022.

With Coach Teevens still in recovery from his bike accident, it's anyone's guess on how interim head coach McCorkle intends to run the Dartmouth offense this Fall. Assuming that he opts to keep the status quo, I'd expect Howard to be the primary QB who is occassionally spelled by a "pass first" QB. Howard should be recovered from injuries by now and most of the OLine will be back for the fall.

Both Cadwallader and Proctor showed flashes of brilliance while Howard was out last season. That said, I'm not sure either has All-Ivy talent. I think both guys are ok at best.

Our best incoming freshman QB is probably Woods Ray. He's basically another Howard who probably has a better arm. That said, he will probably be fourth on the depth chart going into the season at best. Unless he really sets the world on fire and/or the other guys I just mentioned get hurt, I would not expect to see much of him this Fall

[Fordham]

One Ivy opponent, but two games for Fordham (home/away with Dartmouth in 2024 & 2025). How many Ivies does Fordham prefer to play a year? If they prefer to play Nebraska rather than Columbia, then good for them.

And while Dartmouth doesn't have Georgetown on any future schedules, we don't have any PFL schools either. Through 2029, we only have PL schools, CAA schools, CCSU, and Army. There are some openings through. So maybe we will give Georgetown a call. My understanding is that the team enjoyed visiting DC back in 2015.

Columbia makes all the sense in the world and we usually have oddly close games but they bailed during the Moorhead years when we laid some beatings on them. It's too bad since it was an annual game that commemorated 9/11. Otherwise I think 1 - 2 per year would be great and make sense but I also don't think Fordham fans are hung up on making sure we have a mostly Ivy OOC like it was years ago. Now we're fine with the closer CAA schools being on the schedule (Albany, Monmouth, Stony Brook et al) just as much as a schedule full of Ivies. Then we keep one FBS $$ game as well.

[Go...gate]

That scheduling bridge to the Ivy is almost nonexistent for Fordham and Georgetown. The Rams have one Ivy opponent on schedules after 2023, Georgetown one after 2024. The Ivies have opted to pick up Pioneer games in lieu of these schools.

Colgate had some trouble with that for a while, especially under Dave Roach. It is hopefully in the process of being corrected. My understanding is that Princeton will be looking to future games with you guys. Geographically, it makes sense.

[Go...gate]

That scheduling bridge to the Ivy is almost nonexistent for Fordham and Georgetown. The Rams have one Ivy opponent on schedules after 2023, Georgetown one after 2024. The Ivies have opted to pick up Pioneer games in lieu of these schools.

Colgate had some trouble with that for a while, especially under Dave Roach. It is hopefully in the process of being corrected.

My understanding from Princeton sources is that the Tigers will be looking to future games with you guys. Geographically, it makes sense.

[Wolffan]

Columbia makes all the sense in the world and we usually have oddly close games but they bailed during the Moorhead years when we laid some beatings on them. It's too bad since it was an annual game that commemorated 9/11. Otherwise I think 1 - 2 per year would be great and make sense but I also don't think Fordham fans are hung up on making sure we have a mostly Ivy OOC like it was years ago. Now we're fine with the closer CAA schools being on the schedule (Albany, Monmouth, Stony Brook et al) just as much as a schedule full of Ivies. Then we keep one FBS $$ game as well.

I think that is smart scheduling and agree Fordham fans would rather see the CAA teams you mention. Albany, BTW, may be a tough challenge and a very good predictor for Fordham 2023 success.

If Holy Cross continues to sweep Harvard and Yale I suspect those two teams will look elsewhere once the scheduled games finish up. Harvard plays a MEAC, a PFL and HC this year so it’s not like they’re dying to schedule PL teams. Ditto Yale who plays HC, a MEAC and a NEC.

[aceinthehole]

Again, NEC teams have become an attractive opponent for the Ivy League. Most schools offer a competitive opponent with convenient travel. This has cut into the Ivy-PL schedules.

Other than Harvard, I'm not sure there have been too many Ivy-Pioneer games.

Marist probably has appeared the most on Ivy schedules, and San Diego (CA) and Stetson (FL) offer warm weather and a fertile recruiting area that also make sense.

[caribbeanhen]

At least Harvard is playing St Thomas and some folks slipped St T into the top 25

Ivy scheduling is a head shaker

[crusader11]

Other than Harvard, I'm not sure there have been too many Ivy-Pioneer games.


Many more than you might think. Yale is the only Ivy that hasn't played a PFL school in recent years.

Brown: Stetson
Columbia: Marist
Cornell: Marist
Dartmouth: Valpo, Jacksonville, Stetson
Princeton: San Diego, Stetson, Butler, Davidson
Penn: Jacksonville

[Go Green]

Many more than you might think. Yale is the only Ivy that hasn't played a PFL school in recent years.



They played San Diego and Dayton in the 2000s (i.e., the decade). Indeed, the way I remember it, Yale was the first Ivy to start scheduling PFL teams.

I agree that lately, Yale's OOC schedule has been as competitive as anyone's in the Ivy.

[crusader11]

Off the top of my head, Yale's OOC has featured Army, Maine, Mercer, Fordham, Holy Cross, and Richmond in recent seasons. Awesome scheduling by Tony Reno. His pal up in Cambridge should take notes.

[Go...gate]

Harvard and Princeton have really watered down their OOC schedules in recent years.

[aceinthehole]

Harvard and Princeton have really watered down their OOC schedules in recent years.

You mean the last decade or two. 🙂

[Go...gate]

You mean the last decade or two. 

I was trying to be nice.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Princeton also wasn't very good up until about 2012 or 2013. They went down south and played Hampton and The Citadel a few years prior to that and got spanked both times. But no excuse for not having ramped up the schedule more recently. Get a series going with Delaware or W&M. It's still sad that Princeton and Rutgers didn't work something out for the 150th anniversary of the first college football game in 2019. The funny thing being that Princeton might have actually had a fighting chance to win that year.

I believe the Tigers was also scheduled to play at West Point in 2020 with the game being wiped off the board due to COVID. So at least give credit for scheduling an FBS team.

Harvard's schedules have been dreadful since the mid-2000's -- they do have UNH coming up either this year or next. And of course, they face long-time in-state foe Holy Cross.

[Son of Eli]

Off the top of my head, Yale's OOC has featured Army, Maine, Mercer, Fordham, Holy Cross, and Richmond in recent seasons. Awesome scheduling by Tony Reno. His pal up in Cambridge should take notes.


also Cal Poly and UConn

[Sader87]

Yale has been the only Ivy during my college fandom (1970s on) that has consistently scheduled "up" during that time-frame. They played teams like BC, Navy. Miami(OH) etc in the '70s and '80s and have continued to challenge themselves in the current era.

Harvard, under Joe Restic , wasn't too far behind them....playing Army, Rutgers, William&Mary etc but they have totally watered down their OOC schedules with Murphy as head coach.

Princeton and Dartmouth also played more attractive OOC schedules into the FCS-era but have really sort of stayed away from tough OOC games overall ovah the last 25 years or so.

It's really too bad because a lot of these schools could be playing competitive games and often beating more well respected programs than the NEC or Pioneer programs.

[bulldog10jw]

Yale has been the only Ivy during my college fandom (1970s on) that has consistently scheduled "up" during that time-frame. They played teams like BC, Navy. Miami(OH) etc in the '70s and '80s and have continued to challenge themselves in the current era.



You can add Air Force, Hawaii, and Central Florida to that list.

[caribbeanhen]

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-2023-patriot-league-football-preview-dsds/

Hero sports Patriot preview

[MR. CHICKEN]

........SHOODN'T YOUSE PATROTS....BE PLAYIN'....PICKLE BALL.....xconfusedx......DIS THREAD IS LIKE WATCHIN'......UH SLOTH RACE.........BRAWK!

[Wolffan]

........SHOODN'T YOUSE PATROTS....BE PLAYIN'....PICKLE BALL.....xconfusedx......DIS THREAD IS LIKE WATCHIN'......HAIR GROW..........BRAWK!

Any buyer's remorse among Delaware fans regarding chatting with Holy Cross' Chesney but ultimately signing Carty?

[NY Crusader 2010]

Any buyer's remorse among Delaware fans regarding chatting with Holy Cross' Chesney but ultimately signing Carty?

We lucked out that both Delaware and UNH decided to hire within their own alumni networks.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Any buyer's remorse among Delaware fans regarding chatting with Holy Cross' Chesney but ultimately signing Carty?

OL' CHEZ....PUMPS UP HIS BIO....BAH SLAPPIN'....DUH SCOURGE UH PATRIOT LEAGUE....IN DUH WHISKERS.........CARTY EARNS HIS DUBBYA'S......BAWK!

ps.........CHEZ's TRUE ABILITY...WILL SURFACE....WHEN HE'S HIRED.....BAH RUTGERS/BOSTON COLLEGE...........AWK!

[caribbeanhen]

Any buyer's remorse among Delaware fans regarding chatting with Holy Cross' Chesney but ultimately signing Carty?

too early to tell

once Sluka leaves, Chesney won’t look as smart

[KPSUL]

We lucked out that both Delaware and UNH decided to hire within their own alumni networks.

No doubt that Chesney is an excellent coach, but UNH got exactly who we all wanted with Rick Santos. I see it as a win-win for both HC and UNH. Now we now both need to wonder how long they will stay around. You'd have to think that Chesney turned down some chances to come back this season. Santos is newer as a head coach, and was also part of the UNH family, but it will be hard for either of them to turn down 2 or 3 times the money if offers come in the upcoming years.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-2023-patriot-league-football-preview-dsds/

Hero sports Patriot preview

Lehigh will not finish 6th in the PL this year. I try to be rational in my outlooks and this year's team, relative to their PL peers, will be respectable.

[Go Green]

Yale has been the only Ivy during my college fandom (1970s on) that has consistently scheduled "up" during that time-frame. They played teams like BC, Navy. Miami(OH) etc in the '70s and '80s and have continued to challenge themselves in the current era.

Harvard, under Joe Restic , wasn't too far behind them....playing Army, Rutgers, William&Mary etc but they have totally watered down their OOC schedules with Murphy as head coach.

That's the reason why (to me and others) Carm Cozza will always be the Ivy's all-time winningest coach, and not Murphy (who holds the record). Cozza consistently played some real teams out of conference. Murphy consistently did not.

[RichH2]

Lehigh will not finish 6th in the PL this year. I try to be rational in my outlooks and this year's team, relative to their PL peers, will be respectable.

+1. Final scrimmage today. 👍👍

[caribbeanhen]

Lehigh will not finish 6th in the PL this year. I try to be rational in my outlooks and this year's team, relative to their PL peers, will be respectable.

I agree, not sure what young Steenkamer is hearing about Bucknell


HERO Sports’ Predicted Order of Finish

Holy Cross
Fordham
Colgate
Lafayette
Bucknell
Lehigh
Georgetown

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

+1. Final scrimmage today. 

Really looking forward to seeing how they fare against Villanova from a preparation standpoint! Improved coaching has proven over and over that net gains can come pretty quick in the PL. I am not trying to put misplaced pressure on this staff but if they're qualified, the opportunity is there to get the ship headed firmly in the right direction for 2024.

[centraljerseycat]

Really looking forward to seeing how they fare against Villanova from a preparation standpoint! Improved coaching has proven over and over that net gains can come pretty quick in the PL. I am not trying to put misplaced pressure on this staff but if they're qualified, the opportunity is there to get the ship headed firmly in the right direction for 2024.

Looking forward to the start of the season. Always enjoy going to Goodman Stadium. I hope your new coach brings some optimism (and higher attendance) to the place. Villanova has their oldest team since the post-World War 2 teams with 19 grad students most of whom are in the 2-deep. That might sound encouraging for a playoff-bound season but we also have Coach Ferrante who seems to inspire mediocrity so who knows...Have to do better than last year's 6-5.
Hope it's a good game.

[bonarae]

That's the reason why (to me and others) Carm Cozza will always be the Ivy's all-time winningest coach, and not Murphy (who holds the record). Cozza consistently played some real teams out of conference. Murphy consistently did not.

The late Carm Cozza? Did he produce a lot of NFL players, as it is often another barometer of measuring coaching prowess?

What if Murphy retires after this season? Where will Harvard look to for their next head football man? Across the river, to get MIT's? But MIT has had its bad moments in football lately (2021 - 5-4, and 2022 - 3-6)... Their head man, Bubna, has been in Cambridge for 15 seasons, and the head coach for the Engineers since 2018.

UChicago's head man, Gilcrist, meanwhile, is just in his second season in Hyde Park and in his 30s but has struggled to beat the MWC's contenders, Ripon (eventual playoff participant last season), Monmouth IL and Lake Forest. (He is a former Duquesne and Pitt player in the late 2000s and early 2010s who started coaching in D-III after his graduation from Pitt. Plus, he brought some FCS experience to Hyde Park since he was formerly the WR coach and passing game coordinator in Worcester.)

UChicago's former UAA rivals, Washington U, CMU and Case, have collectively played better football than UChicago since the four UAA schools parted from playing each other after 2013. Harvard can look into these 3 academic and athletically strong programs to poach from, too. Rochester has perpetually struggled in the Liberty League, especially since 2006 (they never played UAA football.)

Back to the PL. How old is the youngest head man of a football-playing PL school?

[DFW HOYA]

Back to the PL. How old is the youngest head man of a football-playing PL school?

Dakosty (Colgate): 40

[KPSUL]

The late Carm Cozza? Did he produce a lot of NFL players, as it is often another barometer of measuring coaching prowess?

What if Murphy retires after this season? Where will Harvard look to for their next head football man? Across the river, to get MIT's? But MIT has had its bad moments in football lately (2021 - 5-4, and 2022 - 3-6)... Their head man, Bubna, has been in Cambridge for 15 seasons, and the head coach for the Engineers since 2018.

UChicago's head man, Gilcrist, meanwhile, is just in his second season in Hyde Park and in his 30s but has struggled to beat the MWC's contenders, Ripon (eventual playoff participant last season), Monmouth IL and Lake Forest. (He is a former Duquesne and Pitt player in the late 2000s and early 2010s who started coaching in D-III after his graduation from Pitt. Plus, he brought some FCS experience to Hyde Park since he was formerly the WR coach and passing game coordinator in Worcester.)

UChicago's former UAA rivals, Washington U, CMU and Case, have collectively played better football than UChicago since the four UAA schools parted from playing each other after 2013. Harvard can look into these 3 academic and athletically strong programs to poach from, too. Rochester has perpetually struggled in the Liberty League, especially since 2006 (they never played UAA football.)

Back to the PL. How old is the youngest head man of a football-playing PL school?

MIT? Carnegie Mellon? Univ. of Chicago? Are they looking for an Economics Department Chair or a football coach? Wouldn't Harvard aim a little higher like ripping off a NEC, Pioneer or Patriot FCS level head coach. Short drive for Merrimack's Dan Curran, and he nearly beat the Crimson last year.

[Bill]

MIT? Carnegie Mellon? Univ. of Chicago? Are they looking for an Economics Department Chair or a football coach? Wouldn't Harvard aim a little higher like ripping off a NEC, Pioneer or Patriot FCS level head coach. Short drive for Merrimack's Dan Curran, and he nearly beat the Crimson last year.
I hear some guy who was just at Northwestern is looking....xeyebrowx

[Go...gate]

I'm all for Carnegie-Mellon or Chicago in the Patriot League....

[bonarae]

I'm all for Carnegie-Mellon or Chicago in the Patriot League....

Hmm, Tommie-style? Not going to happen in our lifetime at least.

As for the next Harvard coach, though, IDK what McDermott (or the AD by the time Murphy retires, if he will coach into his 70s) will look to. Ivy coaches will stick around forever, unlike PL coaches... xrulesx

[Sader87]

I think Joel Lamb (current OC) is the next coach in waiting for the Johnnies.

[Southsider]

Looking forward to the start of the season. Always enjoy going to Goodman Stadium. I hope your new coach brings some optimism (and higher attendance) to the place. Villanova has their oldest team since the post-World War 2 teams with 19 grad students most of whom are in the 2-deep. That might sound encouraging for a playoff-bound season but we also have Coach Ferrante who seems to inspire mediocrity so who knows...Have to do better than last year's 6-5.
Hope it's a good game.

Not looking for good attendance. Labor Day weekend! The only hope is perhaps the students get a little exited due to new staff, etc.

- - - Updated - - -


Looking forward to the start of the season. Always enjoy going to Goodman Stadium. I hope your new coach brings some optimism (and higher attendance) to the place. Villanova has their oldest team since the post-World War 2 teams with 19 grad students most of whom are in the 2-deep. That might sound encouraging for a playoff-bound season but we also have Coach Ferrante who seems to inspire mediocrity so who knows...Have to do better than last year's 6-5.
Hope it's a good game.

Not looking for good attendance. Labor Day weekend! The only hope is perhaps the students get a little exited due to new staff, etc.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Former Scranton Mayor and Holy Cross alum Chris Doherty just told me that with ancillary compensation Chesney is making a million dollars this year? True or politician rhetoric? He'll be at the BC game if anyone knows him....

[gravalico]

........SHOODN'T YOUSE PATROTS....BE PLAYIN'....PICKLE BALL.....xconfusedx......DIS THREAD IS LIKE WATCHIN'......UH SLOTH RACE.........BRAWK!We can't all be as riveting as a poor imitation of an 80 year old cartoon.

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[DFW HOYA]

Former Scranton Mayor and Holy Cross alum Chris Doherty just told me that with ancillary compensation Chesney is making a million dollars this year? True or politician rhetoric? He'll be at the BC game if anyone knows him....

Per the Holy Cross Form 990 his 2021-22 compensation was $282,909 as a "highly compensated employee" of the college per IRS rules.

How did other PL coaches fare?

Dave Cecchini (Bucknell): $294,751
Stan Dakosty (Colgate): Not listed among its highly compensated employees
Joe Conlin (Fordham): Not listed among its highly compensated employees
Rob Sgarlata (Georgetown): Not listed among its highly compensated employees
John Garrett (2021 coach, Lafayette): $320,526
Tom Gilmore (2021 coach, Lehigh): Not listed among its highly compensated employees

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Per the Holy Cross Form 990 his 2021-22 compensation was $282,909 as a "highly compensated employee" of the college per IRS rules.

How did other PL coaches fare?

Dave Cecchini (Bucknell): $294,751
Stan Dakosty (Colgate): Not listed among its highly compensated employees
Joe Conlin (Fordham): Not listed among its highly compensated employees
Rob Sgarlata (Georgetown): Not listed among its highly compensated employees
John Garrett (2021 coach, Lafayette): $320,526
Tom Gilmore (2021 coach, Lehigh): Not listed among its highly compensated employees

Doherty made it sound like a core of wealthy football alums spearheaded what amounts to a collective to provide a ton of additional compensation to keep him Worcester this year. While the figure might be incorrect, Doherty has no reason to lie to me. He was playing golf today with the father of a former HC women's bball player.

[caribbeanhen]

We can't all be as riveting as a poor imitation of an 80 year old cartoon.

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What a total lack of respect Sonny

[MR. CHICKEN]

[QUOTE=gravalico;3136870]We can't all be as riveting as a poor imitation of an 80 year old cartoon.

32964

....GUESS IT WAS FUNNIER.....6 DAYS AGO.......DOODLE-DOO!

[Go...gate]

Colgate never paid its coaches lavishly.

Boosters at Holy Cross? Maybe its future is in the CAA or FBS.

[gravalico]

[QUOTE=gravalico;3136870]We can't all be as riveting as a poor imitation of an 80 year old cartoon.

32964

....GUESS IT WAS FUNNIER.....6 DAYS AGO.......DOODLE-DOO!It was funny 80 years ago.

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[MR. CHICKEN]

[QUOTE=gravalico;3136929][QUOTE=MR. CHICKEN;3136911]It was funny 80 years ago.

32967

....BUT YER 52......SO TECHNICALLY..............................

[gravalico]

[QUOTE=gravalico;3136929][QUOTE=MR. CHICKEN;3136911]It was funny 80 years ago.

32967

....BUT YER 52......SO TECHNICALLY..............................Yes but I'm not pretending to be an octogenarian (means old) cartoon chicken...so technically...

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[TribeNomad1]

[QUOTE=MR. CHICKEN;3136933][QUOTE=gravalico;3136929]Yes but I'm not pretending to be an octogenarian (means old) cartoon chicken...so technically...

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A "Wooster Rooster"?

[MR. CHICKEN]

[QUOTE=gravalico;3136935][QUOTE=MR. CHICKEN;3136933][QUOTE=gravalico;3136929]Yes but I'm not pretending to be an octogenarian (means old) cartoon chicken...so technically...

32968


.....AH'M 76......HEADIN' FO' 77......JES' LIKE DUH ROOSTER.....WHO TURNS 77 AUGUST 31st.........AH KNOW OLD...FIRST HAND....BUT FUNNY O' NOT.....AH'M STILL GONNA BE AROUND.......SEE YA DOWN DUH ROAD......xwavex......BRAWK!

[caribbeanhen]

[QUOTE=MR. CHICKEN;3136911]It was funny 80 years ago.

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actually Mr Chicken is funnier than the cartoon…. Don’t miss his CAA game predictions

[gravalico]

[QUOTE=gravalico;3136929]

actually Mr Chicken is funnier than the cartoon…. Don’t miss his CAA game predictionsI'm sure he's a hoot.

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[Pards Rule]

Lehigh is in the process of building a new 94,000 square foot indoor practice facility, made possible by an $8 million gift from an anonymous donor:

https://lehighsports.com/news/2022/8/16/general-8-million-gift-launches-athletics-capital-renovations-and-expansion.aspx

Not sure how much it might help recruiting, but it certainly can't hurt.

Wow! Well it isnt Trump I can bet! So heartening to see that a donor didnt demand name on it as usual. Kudos to Mr or Ms or Mr and Ms Anonymous!!!

[Pards Rule]

Colgate announces the death of former Red Raiders coach Dick Biddle, 75.

In 18 seasons, he won seven PL titles and finished second in seven more.

https://twitter.com/ColgateFB/status/1691183307721977857

Just getting back to posting from offseason. RIP to Dick Biddle and condolences to his family and of course Colgate family. He was always a tough competitor for the Leopards. Always had great respect for his programs.

[Pards Rule]

Hey Im going to Durham NC for the Duke game! Any Pards here going too??

[Pards Rule]

Hoping Malik Hamm makes the 53 cut on Tuesday with Ravens! Had a very good game vs Eagles

[ngineer]

Per the Holy Cross Form 990 his 2021-22 compensation was $282,909 as a "highly compensated employee" of the college per IRS rules.

How did other PL coaches fare?

Dave Cecchini (Bucknell): $294,751
Stan Dakosty (Colgate): Not listed among its highly compensated employees
Joe Conlin (Fordham): Not listed among its highly compensated employees
Rob Sgarlata (Georgetown): Not listed among its highly compensated employees
John Garrett (2021 coach, Lafayette): $320,526
Tom Gilmore (2021 coach, Lehigh): Not listed among its highly compensated employees

Is a "highly compensated employee" self-defined" or per a federal regulation, i.e. certain percentile of all compensated employees? If a school compensates is academic staff better than others, then the coaching salaries won't crack into the "higher" classification, but how and who draws the line of demarcation??

[ngineer]

Lehigh will honoring Sports Hall of Fame inductees this weekend with a dinner Friday night, a tailgate pre-Villanova game and halftime presentation at the game. Among the inductees will be, posthumously, Andy Coen (football head coach 2006-18), Kevin Higgins (football head coach 1994-2000). Higgins, now Asst. Head Coach to former Lehigh O.C., Dave Clausen at Wake Forest, will be able to attend due to Wake having a Thursday night game this week. Also of interest, though a non-football inductee, C.J. McCollum of the famous Lehigh basketball squad that upset Duke in 2012 NCAA's and current New Orleans Pelican captain will be attending and inducted. Should be a great weekend and, hopefully, a little inspirational to the football team that tries to resurrect Lehigh's winning ways in football. Unfortunately, these Labor Day Weekend games tend to be under-attended, which is a shame.

[DFW HOYA]

Is a "highly compensated employee" self-defined" or per a federal regulation, i.e. certain percentile of all compensated employees? If a school compensates is academic staff better than others, then the coaching salaries won't crack into the "higher" classification, but how and who draws the line of demarcation??

Per the IRS, "The organization must also list up to 20 current employees who satisfy the definition of key employee (persons with certain responsibilities and reportable compensation greater than $150,000 from the organization and related organizations), and its five current highest compensated employees with reportable compensation of at least $100,000 from the organization and related organizations who are not officers, directors, trustees, or key employees of the organization."

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/form-990-part-vii-and-schedule-j-reporting-executive-compensation-individuals-included

[ngineer]

Per the IRS, "The organization must also list up to 20 current employees who satisfy the definition of key employee (persons with certain responsibilities and reportable compensation greater than $150,000 from the organization and related organizations), and its five current highest compensated employees with reportable compensation of at least $100,000 from the organization and related organizations who are not officers, directors, trustees, or key employees of the organization."

https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/form-990-part-vii-and-schedule-j-reporting-executive-compensation-individuals-included

So it all depends on how a school views its football coach. All certainly meet the threshold salary amount, but is a football coach at a Patriot League school a person, "with certain responsibilities.."? Not in terms of managing, creating policy, or carrying out policy directives. So it's up to each school to classify the position and I can see why the majority of PL schools do not list their coaches, and am surprised that those who do have done so.

[DFW HOYA]

So it all depends on how a school views its football coach. All certainly meet the threshold salary amount, but is a football coach at a Patriot League school a person, "with certain responsibilities.."? Not in terms of managing, creating policy, or carrying out policy directives. So it's up to each school to classify the position and I can see why the majority of PL schools do not list their coaches, and am surprised that those who do have done so.

No, Form 990 requires listing the five highest paid employees who are not administrators, and most PL coaches don't meet that criterion.