How should the NCAA choose the Playoff Committee members?

[james_lawfirm]

I have no idea how the playoff committee members are chosen. However, I have a suggestion to the NCAA, which I am certain they will immediately implement.

First, I begin with the assumption that it is better for the NCAA to insure that the top 16 teams (or whatever the number is - it may be increased sometime) are chosen and that the top 4 teams are seeded. Some years the seeded teams seem to do well (2006 comes to mind), and other years not so well (2007?). By insuring that the top teams are chosen for the playoffs and that the best teams are seeded in the proper order, then ESPN and other networks can appropriately choose which games to televise (What a boring game Del. v. Del. St. was!!)

So, the assumption is that it is better to accurately choose the seeds. How do we do that?

Well, how about we limit the playoff committee members to FCS schools' athletic directors? I think this is done anyway. Now, how do we choose which AD gets to set on the committee? Assuming all schools who play FCS football would want their AD to sit on the committee, then we need to pick the best ADs, or at least those who are more knowledgeable about FCS football.

To pick the ADs for the committee, how about we have each AD vote on their top 16 teams & esp. their top 4 (seeds)? Then, depending on the RESULTS then we rank and rate the ADs. In other words, the more accurate that ADs choices are in terms of who wins the games, the better job that AD is deemed to be doing. The higher ranked ADs get to sit on the playoff committee the following year. That's right, their own personal poll actually means something not only for the teams this year, it also effects which ADs sit on the committee next year.

This will limit the political decisions like we have this year with the UMass AD allowing 5 CAA teams in the playoffs. No offense meant to UMass fans, but your AD chaired the committee - what other conclusion is one supposed to make from that fact?

Anyway, I welcome other thoughts on this topic.

[blukeys]

I have no idea how the playoff committee members are chosen. However, I have a suggestion to the NCAA, which I am certain they will immediately implement.

First, I begin with the assumption that it is better for the NCAA to insure that the top 16 teams (or whatever the number is - it may be increased sometime) are chosen and that the top 4 teams are seeded. Some years the seeded teams seem to do well (2006 comes to mind), and other years not so well (2007?). By insuring that the top teams are chosen for the playoffs and that the best teams are seeded in the proper order, then ESPN and other networks can appropriately choose which games to televise (What a boring game Del. v. Del. St. was!!)

So, the assumption is that it is better to accurately choose the seeds. How do we do that?

Well, how about we limit the playoff committee members to FCS schools' athletic directors? I think this is done anyway. Now, how do we choose which AD gets to set on the committee? Assuming all schools who play FCS football would want their AD to sit on the committee, then we need to pick the best ADs, or at least those who are more knowledgeable about FCS football.

To pick the ADs for the committee, how about we have each AD vote on their top 16 teams & esp. their top 4 (seeds)? Then, depending on the RESULTS then we rank and rate the ADs. In other words, the more accurate that ADs choices are in terms of who wins the games, the better job that AD is deemed to be doing. The higher ranked ADs get to sit on the playoff committee the following year. That's right, their own personal poll actually means something not only for the teams this year, it also effects which ADs sit on the committee next year.

This will limit the political decisions like we have this year with the UMass AD allowing 5 CAA teams in the playoffs. No offense meant to UMass fans, but your AD chaired the committee - what other conclusion is one supposed to make from that fact?
Anyway, I welcome other thoughts on this topic.

Under Robert's Rules of Order, the Chairman of a Committee does not have a vote on the Committee unless there is a tie. The selections by the Committee had to be done by an affirmative vote of the majority of it's members. The job of a Chairman is to:
1. Set the agenda. (in this case pick the teams)
2. Recognize motions made by the duly authorized members of the Committee.
3. Establish that discussions on motions pertain to the subject of the motions.
4. Call for votes on the motions.
5. Make sure all rules are applied consistently.

If you have proof that the Chairman of this Committee violated any of the above then you should provide it instead of insulting him behind your annonymity.

It's obviouis you have never chaired a meeting of any significance. Otherwise, you would not be subject to weird conspiracy theories and you would actually know something of the role of a Chairman/woman in running a meeting. I don't know anything about the law firm referenced in your moniker but I hope you are not really a lawyer for this firm. If you are I know who I would never want to represent me.

[gophoenix]

There should be no representation. Every conference should have a member. And the members should be by region.

East: CAA, Patriot, NEC
South: MEAC, SoCon, Big South
Midwest: OVC, Gateway, Great West
West: Pioneer, Big Sky, Southland

No participation: SWAC, Ivy

That way it is still even, every conference has representation. The chair is rotated yearly by region.

[james_lawfirm]

Under Robert's Rules of Order, the Chairman of a Committee does not have a vote on the Committee unless there is a tie. The selections by the Committee had to be done by an affirmative vote of the majority of it's members. The job of a Chairman is to:
1. Set the agenda. (in this case pick the teams)
2. Recognize motions made by the duly authorized members of the Committee.
3. Establish that discussions on motions pertain to the subject of the motions.
4. Call for votes on the motions.
5. Make sure all rules are applied consistently.

If you have proof that the Chairman of this Committee violated any of the above then you should provide it instead of insulting him behind your annonymity.

It's obviouis you have never chaired a meeting of any significance. Otherwise, you would not be subject to weird conspiracy theories and you would actually know something of the role of a Chairman/woman in running a meeting. I don't know anything about the law firm referenced in your moniker but I hope you are not really a lawyer for this firm. If you are I know who I would never want to represent me.


I think you need to re-read my post. Whether or not the committee uses Roberts Rules of Order or plays rock, paper, scissors to make decisions is irrelevant when one is considering who the committee members are.

Further, I did not insult the UMass AD anonymously. I accused him of allowing the committee to chose 5 teams from the CAA - something that has never occurred. I think it has only happened once that a conference got in 4 teams. It certainly would appear that the SoCon got the short end of the stick in terms of seeds and number of teams in the playoffs.

And, for the record, I have chaired meetings of significance and I made no conspiracy theory statement.

For the record, I would not want to represent you either. I try to choose clients who are rational and make sense.

[FCS Preview]

Further, I did not insult the UMass AD anonymously. I accused him of allowing the committee to chose 5 teams from the CAA - something that has never occurred. I think it has only happened once that a conference got in 4 teams. It certainly would appear that the SoCon got the short end of the stick in terms of seeds and number of teams in the playoffs.

Twice before conferences have gotten 4 teams.
And for the (hopefully) last time...every team with 7 D-I wins from the SoCon got a playoff invite.

[93BlueHen]

Man, those App State fans must be thankful that JMU handed the game to them so they can keep complaining about the CAA. It's comical.

[Tribe4SF]

This will limit the political decisions like we have this year with the UMass AD allowing 5 CAA teams in the playoffs. No offense meant to UMass fans, but your AD chaired the committee - what other conclusion is one supposed to make from that fact?



If that's the limit of your deductive capability, then I feel for your clients.xnonox

Based on your theory, I envision the poor sweating committee members cowering in their seats as the Evil Chair roars at them..."WELL? DO WE HAVE CONSENSUS?" Why don't you take on those spineless ADs, if that's how you think it went? And they, by the way, were not from the CAA.

[SuperEagle]

There should be no representation. Every conference should have a member. And the members should be by region.

East: CAA, Patriot, NEC
South: MEAC, SoCon, Big South
Midwest: OVC, Gateway, Great West
West: Pioneer, Big Sky, Southland

No participation: SWAC, Ivy

That way it is still even, every conference has representation. The chair is rotated yearly by region.
**
I like this suggestion and it would definitely be the fairest way to do things. I think they should go this route. And I love the rotation idea.
I wonder who we could contact to see about implementing a change? It may eliminate the definite CAA bias and that would be good for us lower conferences such as the SOCON. :)

[Tribe4SF]

**
I like this suggestion and it would definitely be the fairest way to do things. I think they should go this route. And I love the rotation idea.
I wonder who we could contact to see about implementing a change? It may eliminate the definite CAA bias and that would be good for us lower conferences such as the SOCON. :)

Give it a rest. They already have regional committees who feed info and recs to the larger committee. The conspiracy theories here are laughable. The pitiful thing is that the theorists have a hack like Coulson egging them on.

[TheKDL]

Man, those App State fans must be thankful that JMU handed the game to them so they can keep complaining about the CAA. It's comical.

Yeah there are allot of people who think the SoCon is the more dominant conference. Do I? I don't know, I would like to think so! But is it true? I haven't done research but I would say the SoCon has an edge. The SoCon was like all other NCAA football was this year in that you never know whats going to happen, nothing can be predicted I mean... where did Elon come from? How do teams we lost to end up losing to teams we beat and beat pretty well? I just think there is more parity in the SoCon because (I know this is true all the time) any team can win the SoCon every year, next year WCU can run the table (however unlikely) thats just how SoCon football is.

Of course this is only my opinion and I could be wrong!

Much respect to the CAA though! xthumbsupx

[FCS Preview]

I just think there is more parity in the SoCon because (I know this is true all the time) any team can win the SoCon every year, next year WCU can run the table (however unlikely) thats just how SoCon football is.

Of course this is only my opinion and I could be wrong!

Much respect to the CAA though! xthumbsupx

Sounds more like the CAA than the SoCon. If the SoCon champ is anyone but App State, Furman or GSU, it's considered a surprise. In fact, the only time (before 2007) than one of the Big Three did not win the SoCon title since 1996 (when it was Marshall) was 2003 when it was Wofford.

Since 1980 (through 2006), the SoCon champs have been (including ties):
Furman: 11 times
Georgia Southern: 8 times
Appalachian State: 7 times
Marshall: 3 times
Chattanooga:1 time
The Citadel: 1 time
Wofford: 1 time

The Yankee/A-10/CAA (through 2006, including ties):
Massachusetts: 8 times
Delaware: 8 times
Maine: 5 times
Boston U: 5 times
Richmond: 4 times
Villanova: 4 times
Connecticut: 4 times
Rhode Island: 3 times
New Hampshire: 3 times
William & Mary: 3 times
JMU: 2 times
Northeastern: 1 time
Hofstra: 1 times

[eaglesrthe1]

This whole complaint about 5 teams from the CAA is so much bull. They have 12 teams! What if there were 40 teams? Should they still only be limited to 4?

BTW, the year that Wofford got "woofed", many said that ASU got in at their expense. Who was the chairman of the committee? If my memory is correct, it was the AD from ASU.

[gophoenix]

Sounds more like the CAA than the SoCon. If the SoCon champ is anyone but App State, Furman or GSU, it's considered a surprise. In fact, the only time (before 2007) than one of the Big Three did not win the SoCon title since 1996 (when it was Marshall) was 2003 when it was Wofford.

Since 1980 (through 2006), the SoCon champs have been (including ties):
Furman: 11 times
Georgia Southern: 8 times
Appalachian State: 7 times
Marshall: 3 times
Chattanooga:1 time
The Citadel: 1 time
Wofford: 1 time

The Yankee/A-10/CAA (through 2006, including ties):
Massachusetts: 8 times
Delaware: 8 times
Maine: 5 times
Boston U: 5 times
Richmond: 4 times
Villanova: 4 times
Connecticut: 4 times
Rhode Island: 3 times
New Hampshire: 3 times
William & Mary: 3 times
JMU: 2 times
Northeastern: 1 time
Hofstra: 1 times

That is all well and good, I just think it is silly to have 8 reps for 12 conferences. Considering I-AA really doesn't have that many more conferences and they are still spread out evenly, then they should just add the other 4 in and be done with it. That way every conference has a voice every year, top to bottom, good and bad, etc etc etc. It may not change anything or it may change things, but I think it is silly not to at this point.

As for rotation of the chair. If there is any bias, then if it follows the chair every year, then we know we have a problem.

I just think adding in everyone and rotating the chair may add some accountability to a system that has no accountability now.

[blueballs]

If ASU and Wofford both win Saturday, and they should both be favored, they will both be in the semis (duh...).

If so there will be a team sitting at home with a 7-4 record that wasn't invited in favor of another 7-4 team that will own ROAD victories over both. Care to guess who???

I wonder if a team has ever beaten two semi-finalists on the road in a season and not made the tourney.... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

[gophoenix]

If ASU and Wofford both win Saturday, and they should both be favored, they will both be in the semis (duh...).

If so there will be a team sitting at home with a 7-4 record that wasn't invited in favor of another 7-4 team that will own ROAD victories over both. Care to guess who???

I wonder if a team has ever beaten two semi-finalists on the road in a season and not made the tourney.... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

No offense, give it a rest. GSU and Elon both finished with the same record in and out of conference. Both had a win over a crappy D-II. Elon won at Wofford and beat GSU. GSU won at App and Wofford. Both have a SOS that is near identical. Both are basically even with their placement in every computer poll. GSU lost to UTC. The resumes are virtually the same overall.

There is nothing to say that GSU was even the first team out. It could have been Villanova, Colgate, Holy Cross, Elon, The Citadel, Youngstown State, Lafayette. You don't know.... and just because you beat x and y doesn't mean you deserve the playoffs than anyone else.

[eaglesrthe1]

UNH belonged just as much as anyone that was left out. It's a weak argument to bring up a number from one conference.

[Syntax Error]

What exactly was the voting block that conspired to over-represent the CAA?

2007 D-I football committee members:

John McCutcheon, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, chair
Tim Van Alstine, Western Illinois University
Don Kaverman, Southeast Missouri State University
Warren Koegel, Coastal Carolina University
Floyd Kerr, Morgan State University
Terry Wanless, California State University, Sacramento
Bruce McCutcheon, Lafayette College
Robert Bernardi, Nicholls State University

Regional advisors:

Central
Paul Dane, University of Tennessee at Martin
Brian Hutchinson, Morehead State University
Mark Labarbera, Valparaiso University
Ron Strollo, Youngstown State University

East
Mark Hermann, Towson University
Bob Krimmel, St. Francis University (Pennsylvania)
Patrick Lyons, Iona College
Ron Ratner, Northeast Conference
Dave Roach, Colgate University

South
Sam Baker, Georgia Southern University
Charles Cobb, Appalachian State University
Cori Lima, Southwestern Athletic Conference
Hank Small, Charleston Southern University
Joe Taylor, Hampton University

West
Paul Bubb, Idaho State University
Alison Cone, California Polytechnic State University
Robert Hill, Stephen F. Austin State University

[Col Hogan]

This whole complaint about 5 teams from the CAA is so much bull. They have 12 teams! What if there were 40 teams? Should they still only be limited to 4?

BTW, the year that Wofford got "woofed", many said that ASU got in at their expense. Who was the chairman of the committee? If my memory is correct, it was the AD from ASU.

Fair and balanced...wonder why others "forget" the past...Thanks...

[Col Hogan]

What exactly was the voting block that conspired to over-represent the CAA?

2007 D-I football committee members:

John McCutcheon, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, chair
Tim Van Alstine, Western Illinois University
Don Kaverman, Southeast Missouri State University
Warren Koegel, Coastal Carolina University
Floyd Kerr, Morgan State University
Terry Wanless, California State University, Sacramento
Bruce McCutcheon, Lafayette College
Robert Bernardi, Nicholls State University

Regional advisors:

Central
Paul Dane, University of Tennessee at Martin
Brian Hutchinson, Morehead State University
Mark Labarbera, Valparaiso University
Ron Strollo, Youngstown State University

East
Mark Hermann, Towson University
Bob Krimmel, St. Francis University (Pennsylvania)
Patrick Lyons, Iona College
Ron Ratner, Northeast Conference
Dave Roach, Colgate University

South
Sam Baker, Georgia Southern University
Charles Cobb, Appalachian State University
Cori Lima, Southwestern Athletic Conference
Hank Small, Charleston Southern University
Joe Taylor, Hampton University

West
Paul Bubb, Idaho State University
Alison Cone, California Polytechnic State University
Robert Hill, Stephen F. Austin State University

Yep, The CAA really packed that vote....xnonono2x

[Appstate29]

Fair and balanced...wonder why others "forget" the past...Thanks...

ok...so following your logic, if it is plausible that the AD from ASU could influence the committee into ASU inclusion over Wofford, why is it implausible for the UMASS AD to garner 5 spots for CAA????

I'm not saying the CAA didn't deserve 5 teams, (if one more socon team had scheduled a non-scholly patsie instead of a D-II then we wouldn't be having this argument), I just don't like the personal attacks or the double standard.

[Col Hogan]

ok...so following your logic, if it is plausible that the AD from ASU could influence the committee into ASU inclusion over Wofford, why is it implausible for the UMASS AD to garner 5 spots for CAA????

I'm not saying the CAA didn't deserve 5 teams, (if one more socon team had scheduled a non-scholly patsie instead of a D-II then we wouldn't be having this argument), I just don't like the personal attacks or the double standard.

Could you show me the personal attacks or double standards you speak of?

[Syntax Error]

ok...so following your logic, if it is plausible that the AD from ASU could influence the committee into ASU inclusion over Wofford, why is it implausible for the UMASS AD to garner 5 spots for CAA????You have to be kidding. This is ridiculous. How in the heck can one person get seven others to get 5 teams from his league into the playoffs? Everyone knew that the CAA had seven 7 D-I win teams. The committee took everyone from the SoCon, the Southland, the Big Sky, the Gateway, the OVC, and the Patriot. That left, after the MEAC AQ, the next MEAC team, the limited scholly teams, and the SWAC teams besides more from the CAA. They are not blind. They see the polls, the GPI, and follow the games. It was not a shock that they applied the rules and took more from the CAA. Not a shock at all. Anything else people say has its roots in homerism.

[Appstate29]

I consider these personal attacks



It's obviouis you have never chaired a meeting of any significance. Otherwise, you would not be subject to weird conspiracy theories and you would actually know something of the role of a Chairman/woman in running a meeting. I don't know anything about the law firm referenced in your moniker but I hope you are not really a lawyer for this firm. If you are I know who I would never want to represent me.


If that's the limit of your deductive capability, then I feel for your clients.xnonox

and for double standards:


Fair and balanced...wonder why others "forget" the past...Thanks...

if you insinuated that the ASU AD may have been responsible for getting ASU in over Wofford, then how is it out of the realm of possibility that the UMASS AD could get 5 CAA teams in?

[Col Hogan]

I consider these personal attacks





and for double standards:



if you insinuated that the ASU AD may have been responsible for getting ASU in over Wofford, then how is it out of the realm of possibility that the UMASS AD could get 5 CAA teams in?

IF

is a big word...I was pointing out that a SOCON supporter finally came forward without a "conspiracy" that the CAA "packed" the field...

[gophoenix]

You have to be kidding. This is ridiculous. How in the heck can one person get seven others to get 5 teams from his league into the playoffs? Everyone knew that the CAA had seven 7 D-I win teams. The committee took everyone from the SoCon, the Southland, the Big Sky, the Gateway, the OVC, and the Patriot. That left, after the MEAC AQ, the next MEAC team, the limited scholly teams, and the SWAC teams besides more from the CAA. They are not blind. They see the polls, the GPI, and follow the games. It was not a shock that they applied the rules and took more from the CAA. Not a shock at all. Anything else people say has its roots in homerism.

Just for correction's sake, the committee did not take everyone with 7 or more D-I wins from the Patriot.

[blueballs]

No offense, give it a rest. GSU and Elon both finished with the same record in and out of conference. Both had a win over a crappy D-II. Elon won at Wofford and beat GSU. GSU won at App and Wofford. Both have a SOS that is near identical. Both are basically even with their placement in every computer poll. GSU lost to UTC. The resumes are virtually the same overall.

There is nothing to say that GSU was even the first team out. It could have been Villanova, Colgate, Holy Cross, Elon, The Citadel, Youngstown State, Lafayette. You don't know.... and just because you beat x and y doesn't mean you deserve the playoffs than anyone else.

You might have gotten screwed too... that's the entire point. The SoCon only gets two teams in and the committee broke precedent in many ways that have been discussed ad nauseum.

BTW, you STILL didn't answer the question... has a team that was playoff eligible that defeated two of the four semifinalists ON THE ROAD ever been omitted in favor of another team with the same record?

[gophoenix]

You might have gotten screwed too... that's the entire point. The SoCon only gets two teams in and the committee broke precedent in many ways that have been discussed ad nauseum.

BTW, you STILL didn't answer the question... has a team that was playoff eligible that defeated two of the four semifinalists ON THE ROAD ever been omitted in favor of another team with the same record?

I have no clue. I am by no means an expert on the playoffs :)

[Laserlips]

Well..

I don't understand anything about how the selection committee made their decisions..

As an admitted GSU "homer" of the first order I will say that our Eagles, with all things considered, had an outstanding season.

I'm not upset that GSU didn't make the playoffs simply because we knew if we beat Furman we were in... We lost.. Doesn't matter if it was by 4" or 40 points, we lost.. We STILL might have made the playoffs had we beaten Colorado State, but we didn't.. I don't blame ANYONE on the GSU team, or everyone on the GSU team because we didn't make the playoffs.. I DO put "some" blame on the tremendous amount of injuries to our Eagle players and that is something any team could be faced with at any minute.

At the same time our friends from App State and Wofford only won by one point each in their first playoff games.. But one point is as good as 40 if it results in a Win..

I'm looking forward to some excellent playoff games. I will be a SOCON homer, and hope that Championship stays where it belongs, right here in the Socon...

I hope NONE of the playoff teams have any injury problems during the playoffs.. And if our SOCON guys can't win it all, then congratulations will go to whichever team does.

Best Wishes,

J.Pomeroy

[GaelsFootball]

I'm just curious but what if Cal Poly would have won one more game. All four of their losses were by 7 points or less. And they would have finished with 7 D1 wins with Iona being their 7th win. Would people still bash them for playing an Iona like the CAA and New Hampshire are getting ripped for??

[Syntax Error]

Just for correction's sake, the committee did not take everyone with 7 or more D-I wins from the Patriot.That is correct.
I'm just curious but what if Cal Poly would have won one more game.CP would have at least been on the board. If not for that 80 yard bomb, CP would have been in IMO.

[GaelsFootball]

Well assuming they got into the playoffs. Iona would be their 7th D1 win.
I just don't think there would be as much disagreement with them getting in for playing an Iona than there is for UNH. It seems alot of this talk is just anti-CAA or whatever you want to call it. Just my opinion.

[URMite]

You might have gotten screwed too... that's the entire point. The SoCon only gets two teams in and the committee broke precedent in many ways that have been discussed ad nauseum.

BTW, you STILL didn't answer the question... has a team that was playoff eligible that defeated two of the four semifinalists ON THE ROAD ever been omitted in favor of another team with the same record?

Would selecting an at-large with less than 7 DI wins have been breaking a precedent?

Would there be as much debate if UNH had beaten Indiana St instead of Iona?