Contenders or Creampuffs?

[Tod]

A lot of smack is going on about Montana and, to a much lesser extent, McNeese, mostly about how "beatable" they are. For the sake of argument, I won't distinguish between the two because our situations are so similar, and that argument has been beaten to death.

I think the question those of you who think we're so weak should ask yourselves is "how" overrated these teams are.

Does anybody really think that either of these teams don't belong in the top five? Top 10? Top 25?

Two undefeated teams, with big homefield advantages (and hosting), and nearly everybody (including me) dissing one, the other, or both.

Here's the question. Where would you actually rank these two teams with a no-*****, "here are the better teams ranking"?

Because apparently polls (any of them) don't mean a damn thing. xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

How many of you people had UM/MSU ranked higher than Wofford and EWU, and their potential second round opponents, AND their potential semi-final opponents, and are now saying UM and MSU will fall.

Isn't that hypocritical?

And I'm not talking about potential upsets, I'm talking about ranking Montana in the top three or four and now saying Wofford will kick our butts, and that it won't be an upset. There seems to be a lot of that going around.

Same goes for McNeese and EWU.

[UMass922]

Montana and McNeese State are absolutely national title contenders, and I won't be surprised in the least to see either team win it. I'm sorry that you've had to put up with so much Montana-bashing all year. It's definitely gotten tiresome.

[Gil Dobie]

A lot of smack is going on about Montana and, to a much lesser extent, McNeese, mostly about how "beatable" they are. For the sake of argument, I won't distinguish between the two because our situations are so similar, and that argument has been beaten to death.

I think the question those of you who think we're so weak should ask yourselves is "how" overrated these teams are.

Does anybody really think that either of these teams don't belong in the top five? Top 10? Top 25?

Two undefeated teams, with big homefield advantages (and hosting), and nearly everybody (including me) dissing one, the other, or both.

Here's the question. Where would you actually rank these two teams with a no-*****, "here are the better teams ranking"?

Because apparently polls (any of them) don't mean a damn thing. xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

How many of you people had UM/MSU ranked higher than Wofford and EWU, and their potential second round opponents, AND their potential semi-final opponents, and are now saying UM and MSU will fall.

Isn't that hypocritical?

And I'm not talking about potential upsets, I'm talking about ranking Montana in the top three or four and now saying Wofford will kick our butts, and that it won't be an upset. There seems to be a lot of that going around.

Same goes for McNeese and EWU.

Montana #1, Wofford #13
McNeese #3, EWU #10

[Tod]

Montana and McNeese State are absolutely national title contenders, and I won't be surprised in the least to see either team win it. I'm sorry that you've had to put up with so much Montana-bashing all year. It's definitely gotten tiresome.

Actually, I probably overreacted a bit by saying "most" people are saying we should lose, and I hoped to edit it some, but even if I'm exaggerating, the question(s) still stand.

If you rank Montana #3, they're undefeated, have home field, and you actually pick Wofford in an even bet, I'd think there's some hypocrisy there.

With that said, upsets happen. xnodx xnodx xnodx

I have to leave for work in about 15 min, so I won't be replying much more tonight, just FYI, I'm not ducking out.

[JohnStOnge]

I'm pretty consistent in looking to power ratings for objective assessment of how impressive teams' accomplishments are. With 17 rating systems counted so far at http://www.mratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm , McNeese is 7th, Wofford 10th, Montana 11th, and Eastern Washington 23rd. I think it's pure power ratings at this point at that site because the polls aren't out and figured into the average yet.

Even when the polls are considered they're just 3 out of eventually around 30 rankings so I just assume leaving them out wouldn't change the rankings much. So I look at the average as the average of power ratings.

[tdoggs22]

your argument is comparable to the situation in the FBS and Hawaii. An undefeated Hawaii team would get beat by a mutli-loss SEC team such as Florida. Any argument there?? The reason for the doubt in the direction of the Grizz is because they did play a weak schedule without an FBS opponent. I, personally, believe they do belong at the top of the polls. But ask yourself this, if they didnt have such a strong tradition, would Montana be a #3 seed?? I think not. I understand that tradition and reputation does play a part in these types of conversations/decisions, which is why i have them as one of the top teams in my mind. As for Saturday when the two teams line up across from one another, tradition is irrelevant. Its about technique, will, strategy, and all of the other facets of the game. Which is why i believe Wofford has a very realistic chance at beating the Grizz. I would even go as far to say that most knowledgeable FCS followers wouldnt even consider it an upset.

[Eyes of Old Main]

No creampuffs left. No one can make comments about Fort Lewis or Georgetown (KY) anymore as it's time for the Terriers and the Griz to lay it all out and see what happens. Both are contenders as they both have a chance to go all the way to Chattanooga, same as the other 14 teams in the draw. That being said, the Montana faithful think they have a great shot just like those of us who are Wofford fans think we have a shot.

[Squealofthepig]

I think it's hard to rank teams west of the Mississippi, as scheduling and geography make it necessary to often play strange schedules. I don't think anyone knows how good (or, just for the sake of the naysayers, how bad) McNeese or Montana is. There aren't a lot of common opponents to really help us gauge how the teams stack up. Hopefully, this will change when NDSU and SDSU join the Gateway and the Griz can schedule some home and home games (and honor them) to help everyone gauge this. As a Griz fan, I hate having a weak schedule and, although there's something to be said about "champions find ways to win games", it's also hard to really gauge how good the current Griz team is without knowing how we respond when playing teams like NDSU, UNI, etc.

Yes, for us, that's a scheduling issue, but it also means that the FCS on the whole can only really guess how good the Griz and the Cowboys are this year until the playoffs. Fortunately, we have the playoffs to help us address exactly this issue. xthumbsupx

[Tod]

your argument is comparable to the situation in the FBS and Hawaii. An undefeated Hawaii team would get beat by a mutli-loss SEC team such as Florida. Any argument there?? The reason for the doubt in the direction of the Grizz is because they did play a weak schedule without an FBS opponent. I, personally, believe they do belong at the top of the polls. But ask yourself this, if they didnt have such a strong tradition, would Montana be a #3 seed?? I think not. I understand that tradition and reputation does play a part in these types of conversations/decisions, which is why i have them as one of the top teams in my mind. As for Saturday when the two teams line up across from one another, tradition is irrelevant. Its about technique, will, strategy, and all of the other facets of the game. Which is why i believe Wofford has a very realistic chance at beating the Grizz. I would even go as far to say that most knowledgeable FCS followers wouldnt even consider it an upset.

UNI and McNeese have very strong traditions as well, just not as strong as Montana (yet). But of the three 11-0 teams, UM has the third seed, so I wouldn't say tradition helped much there. I think if any other team in the field finished 11-0, they'd get a seed, assuming there weren't six 11-0 teams. IOW, if Montana was in the field at 10-1 or 9-2 and, say, EKU was 11-0, they'd be the third seed. So I see no special consideration for Montana.

Your last sentence is what gets to the meat of the matter, though. If "most" knowledgeable FCS posters wouldn't consider Wofford beating Montana an upset, then why did every one of them on AGS rank Montana higher (an assumption, but I'll bet it's true)?

I'm fine with "minor" upset, as I have a lot of respect for Wofford and frankly, they scare the ***** out of me. But if "most" expect them to win, then the poll is worthless, as people are going by record and not who they believe to be the best teams, in order, as a realistic poll would require.

I guess that's what it boils down to. So many attack the Griz for being weak and vulnerable, but at the same time they were voting them #4 in the most recent AGS poll (they may rise to third with the NDSU loss).

Hypocrisy. Pure and simple. xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

[IABison]

The reason for the doubt in the direction of the Grizz is because they did play a weak schedule without an FBS opponent.

So had Montana gotten beaten at USC instead of beating Albany at home you would feel they would be a much stronger national title contender? xeekx xeekx xeekx I'm not sure I follow that logic.

[Tod]

your argument is comparable to the situation in the FBS and Hawaii. An undefeated Hawaii team would get beat by a mutli-loss SEC team such as Florida. Any argument there?? The reason for the doubt in the direction of the Grizz is because they did play a weak schedule without an FBS opponent. I, personally, believe they do belong at the top of the polls. But ask yourself this, if they didnt have such a strong tradition, would Montana be a #3 seed?? I think not. I understand that tradition and reputation does play a part in these types of conversations/decisions, which is why i have them as one of the top teams in my mind. As for Saturday when the two teams line up across from one another, tradition is irrelevant. Its about technique, will, strategy, and all of the other facets of the game. Which is why i believe Wofford has a very realistic chance at beating the Grizz. I would even go as far to say that most knowledgeable FCS followers wouldnt even consider it an upset.

One more thing, concerning your Hawaii/Florida comparison. No doubt the SoCon is stronger than the Big Sky, top to bottom this year. But are you really comparing that difference to the difference between the SEC and WAC? Bit of a stretch, my friend. xrolleyesx

[FormerPokeCenter]

I don't have a problem with folks underrating us.

To a large degree, it's a function of our performance in the last two playoff trips. We were one and done in 2003 (when we were the top seed) and last year, against Montana; so I think to some degree, the lack of respect is warranted.

We've been dealing with it all year long. We'll have to earn our respect back on the field and that's fine with me.

That's where it should be earned.

[MTGrizzFan]

I don't have a problem with folks underrating us.

To a large degree, it's a function of our performance in the last two playoff trips. We were one and done in 2003 (when we were the top seed) and last year, against Montana; so I think to some degree, the lack of respect is warranted.

We've been dealing with it all year long. We'll have to earn our respect back on the field and that's fine with me.

That's where it should be earned.


Just let things play out for a few more days guys. People will be changing their tune saturday evening.

[Cleets]

I'll tell you this much...

If the Big Sky Champion beats the SoCon Champion I wouldn't expect a hearty congratulations...

xlolx

Too much trash has been spoken about the piddly Big Sky cream puffs to pull in the reigns now...

xlolx

[appstate38]

No creampuffs left. No one can make comments about Fort Lewis or Georgetown (KY) anymore as it's time for the Terriers and the Griz to lay it all out and see what happens. Both are contenders as they both have a chance to go all the way to Chattanooga, same as the other 14 teams in the draw. That being said, the Montana faithful think they have a great shot just like those of us who are Wofford fans think we have a shot.

I would have to agree wholeheartedly. All the pretenders are gone now. Strong field will yield some quality matchups and games. Forget about the other stuff.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

I'll tell you this much...

If the Big Sky Champion beats the SoCon Champion I wouldn't expect a hearty congratulations...

xlolx

Too much trash has been spoken about the piddly Big Sky cream puffs to pull in the reigns now...

xlolx

I'd agree, it's either going to be lots more trash talk against the Griz if they lose, or they will find a way to quiet the detractors. If they even lost to a good opponent, like Wofford, by one point in the last seconds, we will still catch a lot of crap, but that's OK ;)

[appstate38]

I'd agree, it's either going to be lots more trash talk against the Griz if they lose, or they will find a way to quiet the detractors. If they even lost to a good opponent, like Wofford, by one point in the last seconds, we will still catch a lot of crap, but that's OK ;)

Yeah you will probably catch a lot of junk from a tough AGS crowd but if you win I am sure you get your deserved congrats.... at least from me.