Committee Members?

[back2back]

Anyone in the know can give us some info on this group that put together this bracket. Obviously, the Outside the Lines program on Delaware and Delaware State had an impact on one. And if there was a member from the SOCON there they must have been from Furman? Not to mention five teams from the same conference getting in, one with four conference losses, two in the last three weeks. Can you expect them to run the table and win four games and be national champs?

[th0m]

Who else'd you put in instead of UNH?

[Appguy]

Is it just me or did the guy on the waves program - the "chair" of the selection committee sound like he didn't know much or "wasn't in the room" for a lot of the discussions?
depressing when they could ask half of us about these things and know more about it than the chair of the committee picking the playoffs.

[UMass922]

Delaware-Delaware State would have happened regardless of any hype/controversy/publicity/politics/etc. simply because of the geographic proximity of the two schools. Given the committee's guidelines for pairing teams so as to minimize travel, that one's a no-brainer.

[danefan]

Committee Members representative schools:

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/foot...ll_handbook.pdf (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/football/2007/2007_d1_football_handbook.pdf)

Central Region:
Southeast Missouri State AD
Western Illinois AD

East Region:
Lafayette AD
UMass AD

South Region:
Morgan State AD
Coastal Carolina AD

West Region:
Nicholls State AD
Cal State Sacremento AD


And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is really a "room". I think it's a conference call.

[gophoenix]

Committee Members representative schools:

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/foot...ll_handbook.pdf (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/football/2007/2007_d1_football_handbook.pdf)

Central Region:
Southern Missouri AD
Western Illinois AD

East Region:
Lafayette AD
UMass AD

South Region:
Morgan State AD
Coastal Carolina AD

West Region:
Nicholls State AD
UC Sacremento AD


And I don't think there is really a "room". It's a conference call.

That may explain some things. A member from a school that technically isn't even in the South and the other with a chip on their shoulder about the SoCon.

And yes, I would have put UNH in myself, but not Delaware.

[UMass922]

Not to mention five teams from the same conference getting in, one with four conference losses, two in the last three weeks. Can you expect them to run the table and win four games and be national champs?

Well someone had to get the last spot. Who do you propose instead? Can you expect Villanova to run the table? Norfolk State? Dayton or Albany? Alabama A&M? Do any of those teams have a substantially more realistic chance than UNH of becoming national champs? That's just not a reasonable or useful criterion for selecting teams--otherwise you'd have difficulty filling out a 16-team field pretty much every year. All you can do is try to pick the best eight teams available for the at-large spots.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

That may explain some things. A member from a school that technically isn't even in the South and the other with a chip on their shoulder about the SoCon.





You're tellin me! Nobody representing the hands down #1 conference??? The conference with the highest playoff winning % and National Champion teams in the past 30 years not represented???? And Morgan State? Are they even DI??? Are they even a school?

[UDChE89]

That may explain some things. A member from a school that technically isn't even in the South and the other with a chip on their shoulder about the SoCon.

And yes, I would have put UNH in myself, but not Delaware.

So, you'd sub a 7-4 (4-4 CAA) for an 8-3 (5-3 CAA) squad? No dice there bud.. have another drink...

[unipnthr]

I'd like to see some love for the Gateway and have Youngstown instead of UNH. Obviously you'd have to switch the opponents so YSU didn't play UNI first round, though.

[R.A.]

And Morgan State? Are they even DI??? Are they even a school?

What's that supposed to mean??? Are they even a school?? What the hell are you talking about??

[The Moody1]

You're tellin me! Nobody representing the hands down #1 conference??? The conference with the highest playoff winning % and National Champion teams in the past 30 years not represented???? And Morgan State? Are they even DI??? Are they even a school?

http://www.morganstatebears.com/schedules.asp?path=foot

[FCS Preview]

I'd like to see some love for the Gateway and have Youngstown instead of UNH. Obviously you'd have to switch the opponents so YSU didn't play UNI first round, though.

UNH had seven D-I wins, including one over a FBS school and one over a playoff team.
YSU had six D-I wins, plus another over a D-II school. No wins over any playoff teams.

Better resume? UNH.

[Khan4Cats]

I know Morgan State's a school.

But Southern Missouri? UC-Sacramento? Shouldn't the committee be made up of schools that play FCS football? Seems odd to me. Maybe we can get Creighton and Gonzaga on for committee membership.

[UMass922]

I know Morgan State's a school.

But Southern Missouri? UC-Sacramento? Shouldn't the committee be made up of schools that play FCS football? Seems odd to me. Maybe we can get Creighton and Gonzaga on for committee membership.

My guess is that it's supposed to read Southeast Missouri State and Sacramento State.

[gsugt1]

The head of the committee is from Umass. The CAA gets 5 teams in. Something is fishy.

[UMass922]

The head of the committee is from Umass. The CAA gets 5 teams in. Something is fishy.

Who were the eligible teams that clearly had better at-large resumes than UNH? I can only think of one--Villanova. So that wouldn't really make things any less fishy for you, I suppose.

Point to the non-CAA team(s) that clearly got hosed before you start calling anything "fishy."

[DB_Atlantic10]

Why are we bitching about the 16th spot..... What about the top 15...If we get those right, the last spot if for show....unless someone is afraid that a 7-4 team is too scary to play.... Is that really the argument? Would we rather have a weaker 8-3 team for a sure win.....

[danefan]

My guess is that it's supposed to read Southeast Missouri State and Sacramento State.

You're right. Sorry guys, I apparently cannot read.

I fixed the original post.xsmhx

[SuperEagle]

Would it ever be possible for a 4 loss SOCON team to get in? I'm guessing no judging from what the committees done in the past. Seems like many conferences can have teams with 4 losses but not the SOCON. Heck, we all remember the 8-3 Wofford team that got screwed. I'm not saying my Eagles deserve to be there but I am surprised that we seem to get such little respect every year. But it seems to me we may do better to join the CAA. If we go .500 in the league we get a bid.

[gophoenix]

So, you'd sub a 7-4 (4-4 CAA) for an 8-3 (5-3 CAA) squad? No dice there bud.. have another drink...

No. Not that. But I wouldn't have had over 1/4 of the field be from teams in a conference that don't play 1/3 of the conference.

Delaware is 1-3 to playoff teams right now and didn't even play UMass. They get a home game over a conference champ. UNH has a win over Iona and is 1-3 against playoff teams. That right there speaks for itself. UNH has a better resume than Delaware if you ask me, but they (UNH) are sent on the road.

Delaware has D-II win on top of it. So really, they are 7-3. UNH is 7-4 with a tougher SoS.

Personally, I would have put Albany, Colgate or Norfolk State in over a 5th CAA team.

My bias comment has to do with Wofford traveling the furthest.

[FCS Preview]

Would it ever be possible for a 4 loss SOCON team to get in? I'm guessing no judging from what the committees done in the past. Seems like many conferences can have teams with 4 losses but not the SOCON. Heck, we all remember the 8-3 Wofford team that got screwed. I'm not saying my Eagles deserve to be there but I am surprised that we seem to get such little respect every year. But it seems to me we may do better to join the CAA. If we go .500 in the league we get a bid.
A 4 loss SoCon team would have a chance, if they had 7 D-I wins.

GSU, 7-4 but only 6 D-I wins
Citadel, 7-4 but only 6 D-I wins
Elon, 7-4 but only 6 D-I wins

Yeah, we all remember Wofford from a few years ago. But this year, the SoCon got what it deserved -- two schools.

[gophoenix]

A 4 loss SoCon team would have a chance, if they had 7 D-I wins.

GSU, 7-4 but only 6 D-I wins
Citadel, 7-4 but only 6 D-I wins
Elon, 7-4 but only 6 D-I wins

Yeah, we all remember Wofford from a few years ago. But this year, the SoCon got what it deserved -- two schools.

UNH has wins over Dartmouth and Iona. It used to be that playing schools like that penalized you. It sure seems to have penalized Holy Cross and Lafayette.

Again, the moral of the story. Schedule a weak Ivy, MAAC or weak NEC team and waltz into the field rather than a D-II school with scholarships.

I would have substituted Norfolk State, Albany, Holy Cross, Dayton, Lafayette. Yes.

[SuperEagle]

UNH has wins over Dartmouth and Iona. It used to be that playing schools like that penalized you. It sure seems to have penalized Holy Cross and Lafayette.

Again, the moral of the story. Schedule a weak Ivy, MAAC or weak NEC team and waltz into the field rather than a D-II school with scholarships.

I would have substituted Norfolk State, Albany, Holy Cross, Dayton, Lafayette. Yes.
**
Well, if we played Savannah State every year the committee would then change the rules. Then they would say SOCON teams OOC was to easy.
They would find something to get us on.

[Eaglegus2]

The way I see it is the Chairman of the committee got what he wanted with the help from the Coastal Carolina rep.

They both have a boner against the SoCon.

YES!!!!!!! I would have seen Norfolk State or Alabama A&M in the playoffs instead of UNH.

BUT, the fairness doctrine is out the window.


When does the committee members change? Who determines the members?

[gophoenix]

The way I see it is the Chairman of the committee got what he wanted with the help from the Coastal Carolina rep.

They both have a boner against the SoCon.

YES!!!!!!! I would have seen Norfolk State or Alabama A&M in the playoffs instead of UNH.

BUT, the fairness doctrine is out the window.


When does the committee members change? Who determines the members?

I am not dumping on UNH. I think their overall performance speaks for itself. They played a tougher schedule, all D-I, beat Delaware. Delaware is the one that should have been left out.

[BigApp]

UNH had seven D-I wins, including one over a FBS school and one over a playoff team, one over IONA and one over DARTMOUTH. They also had a blowout loss, at home no less, to a 3-8 team.
YSU had six D-I wins, plus another over a D-II school. No wins over any playoff teams.

Better resume? YSU

edited for completeness.

[UDChE89]

I am not dumping on UNH. I think their overall performance speaks for itself. They played a tougher schedule, all D-I, beat Delaware. Delaware is the one that should have been left out.

So sorry.. we get that you don't like the unbalanced schedule but UD has a better conference record and beat a better FBS team than UNH. There's no way that UNH gets in over Delaware.

[blukeys]

Would it ever be possible for a 4 loss SOCON team to get in? I'm guessing no judging from what the committees done in the past. Seems like many conferences can have teams with 4 losses but not the SOCON. Heck, we all remember the 8-3 Wofford team that got screwed. I'm not saying my Eagles deserve to be there but I am surprised that we seem to get such little respect every year. But it seems to me we may do better to join the CAA. If we go .500 in the league we get a bid.

We would welcome you SE!!!! You would be joining the toughest conference week in and week out in FCS. No softies, no sure wins, just tough hard hitting competition every week. No big 3, just a Big 12.

By the way in the respect department, How did your Eagles do against UNH at home in 2004 against Santos??????????xeyebrowx I also watched you guys struggle against a second level Northeastern team. Anytime GSU wants to take up an all CAA OOC schedule you will find plenty of takers. Something tells me you will never do this. xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

There are too many Savannah State's out there for you to do this.

[FCS Preview]

UNH has wins over Dartmouth and Iona. It used to be that playing schools like that penalized you. It sure seems to have penalized Holy Cross and Lafayette.

Again, the moral of the story. Schedule a weak Ivy, MAAC or weak NEC team and waltz into the field rather than a D-II school with scholarships.

I would have substituted Norfolk State, Albany, Holy Cross, Dayton, Lafayette. Yes.
UNH also beat Marshall, with 85 scholarships.

[BigApp]

.

Again, the moral of the story. Schedule a weak Ivy, MAAC or weak NEC team and waltz into the field rather than a D-II school with scholarships.



Yep, and from this point forward I support our AD scheduling St Francis, Iona and Savannah State's of the world.

Matter of fact, I think the SoCon should make it a new rule. OOC games from now on can only come from a pool of Independents, MAAC, PFL and NEC teams.

[Eaglegus2]

UNH also beat Marshall, with 85 scholarships.


SO!!!!!!!!!!

Marshall sucks! Still doesn't pass the smell test.

[BigApp]

Marshall is also 2-9.

[FCS Preview]

SO!!!!!!!!!!

Marshall sucks! Still doesn't pass the smell test.

Colorado State sucks, and Georgia Southern couldn't beat them.

[Eaglegus2]

Colorado State sucks, and Georgia Southern couldn't beat them.


I didn't say they would or could.:D

Scheduling a 1-A team on week 11 is stupid.

But, stupid left for the Falcons.

[SuperEagle]

We would welcome you SE!!!! You would be joining the toughest conference week in and week out in FCS. No softies, no sure wins, just tough hard hitting competition every week. No big 3, just a Big 12.

By the way in the respect department, How did your Eagles do against UNH at home in 2004 against Santos??????????xeyebrowx I also watched you guys struggle against a second level Northeastern team. Anytime GSU wants to take up an all CAA OOC schedule you will find plenty of takers. Something tells me you will never do this. xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

There are too many Savannah State's out there for you to do this.
**
New Hampshire beat us fair and square. No excuses. They outplayed us and deserved the win. And we did barely squeak by Northeastern. They are a 2nd level team. Good call. How did they do against UNH this year?
Please remind us. BTW, we are 14-5 all time against your conference. You may not want to talk to much smack to us. :) That is much better than .500 which would be the requirement for getting a playoff bid in the CAA. No offense to any UNH posters on here, but if you can't even sport a winning record in your conference, you don't deserve to be in the post-season IMO.

[gophoenix]

UNH also beat Marshall, with 85 scholarships.

Just because a team is FBS doesn't make the win worthy of greatness. It is always nice to win as a division, but some of those teams suck. Marshall is a descent win. Navy is a descent win, but not really that great.

But come on these are also FBS teams with 85 scholarships: Tulane, ULL, USU, NMSU, UAB, Rice, Idaho, UNT, FIU and they are all rated lower than teams like Holy Cross and Cal Poly who weren't even mentioned by most to be considered.

So the question is, why penalize for playing a D-II with 35 scholarships but not penalize playing a NEC with 30, MAAC with 0, Ivy with 0 or Pioneer with 0. But that's the rule, I understand. But there's a point when some of this crap has to offset to let teams like Norfolk State, Albany or SC State in.

And I can't believe BigApp and I are agreeing again. Is this a sign of the apocolypse???? :D

[gophoenix]

Yep, and from this point forward I support our AD scheduling St Francis, Iona and Savannah State's of the world.

Matter of fact, I think the SoCon should make it a new rule. OOC games from now on can only come from a pool of Independents, MAAC, PFL and NEC teams.

I'm afraid that if that happened they'd re-institute the old policy where those don't count like they did back in the 90s.

[R.A.]

I agree with many of the out of conference scheduling comments. And what happens when the stronger teams from major conferences, stop playing the stronger teams from mid-level conferences? Then how will the the mid- level conferences rise in strength and respect when the top teams from top conferences won't play them?

It's a monopoly, no doubt about it.

[th0m]

UNH has wins over Dartmouth and Iona. It used to be that playing schools like that penalized you. It sure seems to have penalized Holy Cross and Lafayette.

Again, the moral of the story. Schedule a weak Ivy, MAAC or weak NEC team and waltz into the field rather than a D-II school with scholarships.

I would have substituted Norfolk State, Albany, Holy Cross, Dayton, Lafayette. Yes.

Don't make it sound like your AD scheduled a DII because he thought he'd get better competition than a non-scholly xrolleyesx

And Stony Brook is only one year removed from their NEC membership, so don't act all innocent about scheduling NEC teams.

[gsugt1]

UNH also beat Marshall, with 85 scholarships.

Also Iona with no schoilies. I think that is what I read soemwhere.

[gophoenix]

Don't make it sound like your AD scheduled a DII because he thought he'd get better competition than a non-scholly xrolleyesx

And Stony Brook is only one year removed from their NEC membership, so don't act all innocent about scheduling NEC teams.

Stony Brook has 45 scholarships. That's more than UTM, not too far off Wofford. And a heck of a lot more than Iona and Dartmouth. So don't sit and give me that.

And the deal is. How do you penalize someone from playing a D-II team with 35 scholatrships but not penalize someone for playing two teams with no scholarships.

This isn't about Elon. So don't turn it into being about Elon. This is about SC State, Norfolk St, Colgate, Lafayette or Holy Cross.

[FCS Preview]

This is not a new policy. AD's know this before they schedule games. However, if they feel that they need a home game for their budget, and they can get D-II schools with no expectation of a return game, then they will. They also assume they will win enough games to make the playoffs. Most years we are not debating which 7-win team deserves a berth. We are debating which 8-win team got left out.

If you only have 7 wins -- if they are 7 vs D-I schools or 6, plus one vs a D-II school, your season is usually over. If you have 7 D-I wins, plus one versus a D-II school, you are (8-3) and if you're YSU or GSU, you're making the playoffs. So they might as well get the extra home game.

But don't come crying when it comes back to bite you in the ass once in a while.

[OL FU]

This is not a new policy. AD's know this before they schedule games. However, if they feel that they need a home game for their budget, and they can get D-II schools with no expectation of a return game, then they will. They also assume they will win enough games to make the playoffs. Most years we are not debating which 7-win team deserves a berth. We are debating which 8-win team got left out.

If you only have 7 wins -- if they are 7 vs D-I schools or 6, plus one vs a D-II school, your season is usually over. If you have 7 D-I wins, plus one versus a D-II school, you are (8-3) and if you're YSU or GSU, you're making the playoffs. So they might as well get the extra home game.

But don't come crying when it comes back to bite you in the ass once in a while.


Yep while Furman had no chance this year I certainly hope we refrain from scheduling D-IIs in the future. Kinda sad for the DIIs like sad for FCS before the NCAA changed the rules on what is bowl eligible.

[HIU 93]

A member from a school that technically isn't even in the South...

I don't know what you consider "...technically in the South...", but Morgan State is in Baltimore, about 60 miles south of the Mason Dixon line.

[Seahawks Fan]

UD was helped by Delaware State. Seems the committee too wants to see this matchup. That's fair.

[gophoenix]

I don't know what you consider "...technically in the South...", but Morgan State is in Baltimore, about 60 miles south of the Mason Dixon line.

Morgan State's geographical region is far into the territory of the East region. I am not talking physical south. I am talking the NCAA says that the South encompasses the MEAC, Big South and SoCon. But the pick one of the schools the farthest out of that region, thus out of the media area for the majority of the schools, to represent that region.

I would have rather seen a representative from the region that was a bit more central to all the teams. But from what I can tell, Morgan State and Coastal did a terrible job.

Out of 3 conferences in the south. One conference champ (Wofford @ Montana) is sent on the road to the farthest playoff game into another region. Another conference champ is sent on the road to a non-conference champ (Delaware St @ Delaware). And SC State and Norfolk State don't get invited; let alone the arguments for Liberty, Elon, GSU or the Citadel.

So, weak OOC schedule works out for CAA teams. But a strong OOC schedule but weak conference hurts Norfolk St and SC State.

The playoffs are a farce. We have a glorified BCS system. Sure 16 teams go to the playoffs and decide the winner, but out selection system is just as flawed as the BCS system.

[FCS Preview]

So, weak OOC schedule works out for CAA teams. But a strong OOC schedule but weak conference hurts Norfolk St and SC State.

How is Norfolk State and SC State's OOC strong, but the CAA weak?

SC State, yes...their two OOC games were against Air Force and South Carolina...but they lost both. But kudos for scheduling them, even if it was just for the money.

Norfolk State? Rutgers and (non-Division I) Virginia State. Is that better than JMU's OOC of North Carolina, Coastal Carolina (2006 playoff at-large team) and VMI? UMass which played two Patriot teams (a playoff conference) and Boston College? Richmond played Vanderbilt, Bucknell and Stony Brook. Delaware's OOC of WCU and Monmouth is weak, but Navy which could be (8-4) this year is strong.

[JDC325]

A 4 loss SoCon team would have a chance, if they had 7 D-I wins.

GSU, 7-4 but only 6 D-I wins
Citadel, 7-4 but only 6 D-I wins
Elon, 7-4 but only 6 D-I wins

Yeah, we all remember Wofford from a few years ago. But this year, the SoCon got what it deserved -- two schools.

So your saying we should schedule a joke FCS (Dartmouth) school instead of a DIV II and it makes more sense? Hmm xeyebrowx Our OOC is what doomed us but our conference was better PERIOD.

[FCS Preview]

So your saying we should schedule a joke FCS (Dartmouth) school instead of a DIV II and it makes more sense? Hmm xeyebrowx Our OOC is what doomed us but our conference was better PERIOD.

I'm saying that if the NCAA is looking for 7 D-I wins, then don't complain if only two of your schools reach that benchmark. For better or for worse, LaSalle counts as a D-I win, but Grand Valley State, the #1 ranked D-II school doesn't. If you schedule two of your three (or four, depending on the conference) OOC games as an FBS school you only have a 10% chance of beating, and a D-II school which doesn't help you get to 7 wins, then you better make sure you can go (7-2) in your other nine contests.

[gophoenix]

I'm saying that if the NCAA is looking for 7 D-I wins, then don't complain if only two of your schools reach that benchmark. For better or for worse, LaSalle counts as a D-I win, but Grand Valley State, the #1 ranked D-II school doesn't. If you schedule two of your three (or four, depending on the conference) OOC games as an FBS school you only have a 10% chance of beating, and a D-II school which doesn't help you get to 7 wins, then you better make sure you can go (7-2) in your other nine contests.

Like I said, the moral of the story is to schedule the non-scholarship schools.

But then we'd be back to the late 1990s when the committee penalized teams for non-scholarship opponents.

So really, it is just a matter of the committee making it fit for certain teams this year and not others.

So basically, what the CAA guys are saying is, to heck with good competition, PAD your schedule. And with a little help from the conference not making the good teams play each other, you have your paved road to the playoffs.

END OF STORY. IT IS LOUD AND CLEAR. QUALITY IS _NOT_ WHAT MATTERS.

[WMTribe90]

I'm saying that if the NCAA is looking for 7 D-I wins, then don't complain if only two of your schools reach that benchmark. For better or for worse, LaSalle counts as a D-I win, but Grand Valley State, the #1 ranked D-II school doesn't. If you schedule two of your three (or four, depending on the conference) OOC games as an FBS school you only have a 10% chance of beating, and a D-II school which doesn't help you get to 7 wins, then you better make sure you can go (7-2) in your other nine contests.

Bingo, its no secret or surprise that the committee wants to see 7 DI wins and will value a win over a weak FCS opponent over a DII win. Your AD made a decision and gambled. He probably figured GSU would muster seven DI wins and the DII win would be gravy. Well, that decision back-fired, but don't blame the committee.

YSU got burned two years ago for scheduling two DII squads and the SoCon seriously damaged their playoff hopes this year with several contenders scheduling DII opponents. UD was the only CAA squad to play a DII squad and it would have bit them in the arse too if they hadn't beaten a strong Navy squad.

Its a shame for the DII squads, but if you have playoff aspirations you really need to put together and all DI schedule and give your team the best chance of making the field of 16.

[FCS Preview]

So basically, what the CAA guys are saying is, to heck with good competition, PAD your schedule.
And scheduling a D-II school is not padding your schedule?

Every one of the CAA Playoff teams played a FBS school.
Two of the five won those games.
Only one of the five played a D-II school.

The one SoCon team to beat a FBS school, made the playoffs.

Every SoCon team to get to 7 D-I wins, made the playoffs.
Not every CAA team to get to 7 D-I teams made the playoffs.

The moral of the story is...schedule a full D-I slate.

[Ronin]

The head of the committee is from Umass. The CAA gets 5 teams in. Something is fishy.

That doesn't bother me. I assume Del. St, EKU are AQ.

But how do you take EWU over YSU, WIU, SDSU, GSU, Elon, Citadel or Furman. Talk about a gift, but then it's the Big Fluffy and gifts fall from the sky. xrolleyesx

[FCS Preview]

That doesn't bother me. I assume Del. St, EKU are AQ.

But how do you take EWU over YSU, WIU, SDSU, GSU, Elon, Citadel or Furman. Talk about a gift, but then it's the Big Fluffy and gifts fall from the sky. xrolleyesx

None of those other schools have 7 D-I wins.

[mtoliver]

So, you'd sub a 7-4 (4-4 CAA) for an 8-3 (5-3 CAA) squad? No dice there bud.. have another drink... xnonox

I'd take a SOCON #3 at 7-4 before a #5 CAA at 7-4 all day every day. Send GSU to UNI and you've got quite a bit more interesting matchup.

It's total BS for the #1 rated conference to have 2 spots in the playoffs w/ the AQ headed to Missoula. seven D1 wins is a strong recommendation not a requirement. The eagles should be in the dome this weekend.... xthumbsupx

[gophoenix]

And scheduling a D-II school is not padding your schedule?

Every one of the CAA Playoff teams played a FBS school.
Two of the five won those games.
Only one of the five played a D-II school.

The one SoCon team to beat a FBS school, made the playoffs.

Every SoCon team to get to 7 D-I wins, made the playoffs.
Not every CAA team to get to 7 D-I teams made the playoffs.

The moral of the story is...schedule a full D-I slate.

Same thing another post. You schedule weak but hey, it's all D-I right it it's good.. Over and over. Weak. Period.

Scheduling a D-II is padding the schedule as much as scheduling a non-schollie.

But you people keep making this about Elon or GSU or any team with a D-II win. It is not about them. It is about YOU CAA BOYS padding your schedule and leaving teams like SC STATE who did NOT out.

I will say again. Delaware and UNH are already 1-3 against playoff opponents. How's that for some entry into the playoffs. How many other teams have that kind of record? How many other teams boost such a wonderful record against the top 16? Hmm? Heck, I don't think you'd find any other teams in playoffs with even losing records to top 25 teams.

But keep on making it about my team or any team with a D-II team on the schedule and keep missing the point .... but really it is all about misdirection in your argument to justify how your league made the FCS playoffs the joke that it is today.

I'm done. Go ahead and post your crap.

[mtoliver]

OK. true on the OOC scheduling... but it's tough to fill out a D1 OOC in the south when you're App or GSU. Hopefully adding Samford to the wix will at least garauntee another D1 game. But weak is weak IMO...

[BestOfBreed]

None of those other schools have 7 D-I wins.

None of them have 4 conference losses either xwhistlex

[WMTribe90]

You miss the pont GoPhoenix. We're not arguing that playing and beating an FCS squad from a weaker conference is easy or harder than beating a DII. It obviously depends on what DII and what FCS teams your comparing. Obviously, there are a good number of DII opponents that are more challenging than some FCS squads. Again, not the point. The point is the committee has made it painfully obvious in recent years (last five or so) that teams that schedule DII squads (regardless of their strength) are putting themselves at risk and that emphasis will be placed on reaching 7 DI wins. Several teams from the SoCon and Southland in particular ignored this fact in their scheduling and ended up paying the price when they failed to reach 7 DI wins. Bitch all you want now, but the commitee didn't screw these teams, they did to themselves when their AD put together their schedule. UNH would have been left in the cold too if they hadn't scheduled wisely and avoided playing a DII squad becuase it would have left them with only 6 DI wins.

Also, there is nothing saying the committee won't consider the comparative merits of DII wins versus DI wins between two teams that have eached reached the 7 DI win threshold.

[UMass922]

seven D1 wins is a strong recommendation not a requirement.

The only reason it's a strong recommendation and not a requirement is to allow for the possibility of a season in which not enough teams reach seven D-I wins, in which case a team with fewer wins would have to be selected in order to fill out the playoff field.

I don't think anyone is debating that UNH is a better team than GSU. It's very clear to me that GSU is the superior team, and I would have liked to see them in the playoffs. But they didn't reach seven D-I wins, enough other teams did reach seven D-I wins, and that's that.

[JDC325]

None of them have 4 conference losses either xwhistlex


BOO AND YA!! Fact is the SoCon got penalized for having the strongest conference and beating up on each other. Having a DIV II is REASON not justification for leaving a 7-4 SoCon team out. 7 DI wins is a guidline not a rule!! I hope nobody on here is saying that a sorry non schllie FCS team is better than a DIV II team. Note to SoCon play IONA or Dartmouth instead of a DIV II because even though most DIV II teams are better and would mop the floor those teams it gives the board members an EXCUSE not to choose you!!

[HIU 93]

The playoffs are a farce. We have a glorified BCS system. Sure 16 teams go to the playoffs and decide the winner, but out selection system is just as flawed as the BCS system.

I wouldn't call them a farce, but I do think the 24 team system would be more representative of FCS.

[Mn_Moose]

Central Region:
Southeast Missouri State AD Don Kaverman Alma Mater:Michigan State
Western Illinois AD Tim Van Alstine earned his bachelor’s degree from St. Norbert College

East Region:
Lafayette AD Bruce McCutcheon graduated from William & Mary
UMass AD John McCutcheon McCutcheon earned his bachelor of science degree from Indiana University of Pennsylvania

South Region:
Morgan State AD Floyd Kerr graduate of Colorado State University
Coastal Carolina AD Warren Koegel Penn State

West Region:
Nicholls State AD Rob Bernardi California State University-Northridge
Cal State Sacremento AD Terry Wanless Black Hills State,


Are Bruce McCutcheon and John McCutcheon brothers?

[UMass922]

Note to SoCon play IONA or Dartmouth instead of a DIV II because even though most DIV II teams are better and would mop the floor those teams it gives the board members an EXCUSE not to choose you!!

That's exactly the point. If UNH had played a D-II instead of Iona or Dartmouth they'd be sitting at home just like Georgia Southern. (I think UNH should be sitting at home anyway, because Villanova is a more deserving team, but that's a different matter.)

[UMass922]

None of them have 4 conference losses either xwhistlex

Good point. It's one of the reasons Villanova should have been selected instead of UNH.

[FCS Preview]

Same thing another post. You schedule weak but hey, it's all D-I right it it's good.. Over and over. Weak. Period.

Scheduling a D-II is padding the schedule as much as scheduling a non-schollie.

But you people keep making this about Elon or GSU or any team with a D-II win. It is not about them. It is about YOU CAA BOYS padding your schedule and leaving teams like SC STATE who did NOT out.

I will say again. Delaware and UNH are already 1-3 against playoff opponents. How's that for some entry into the playoffs. How many other teams have that kind of record? How many other teams boost such a wonderful record against the top 16? Hmm? Heck, I don't think you'd find any other teams in playoffs with even losing records to top 25 teams.

But keep on making it about my team or any team with a D-II team on the schedule and keep missing the point .... but really it is all about misdirection in your argument to justify how your league made the FCS playoffs the joke that it is today.

I'm done. Go ahead and post your crap.

The NCAA posts their guidelines.
The NCAA defines what is a D-I school.


3. The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, less than seven Division I wins may place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;

4. The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents;

If a school chooses to ignore the guidelines they do so at their own peril.

If the NCAA said you needed 7 wins against teams that offer at least 30 scholarships, then that would make a game against a D-II school worth more than one against a non-scholarship D-I school. But that's not their criteria. Scheduling non-Scholarship programs helps the committee see if a team is really playoff worthy. Albany might have dominated their league, but losses to Hofstra and Montana showed what they would do against teams from playoff conferences. If San Diego had scheduled EWU and Northern Arizona, and won those games, it would carry some weight. Or if they lost, it would end all the debate here as to whether or not they deserved a playoff berth.

And for your other point:

EWU (0-1) against playoff teams
SIU (0-1) against playoff teams
EIU (0-1) against playoff teams
App State (0-1) against playoff teams

Some schools haven't played any playoff teams this year. Others are (1-0), beating only the school from their conference. With so many playoff teams, the CAA will have some schools with losing records against the others.

[walliver]

Just to put my two cents in, there are very few "mid-majors" in the South. Davidson and Jacksonville come to mind, but they are not very good, and I doubt have any interest in playing SoCon schools. The options of playing a D-I "patsy" in the south are quite limited (VMI is only allowed 11 games a year). That is why you see so many D-II's on Southern schedules.

[Kosty]

The point is the committee has made it painfully obvious in recent years (last five or so) that teams that schedule DII squads (regardless of their strength) are putting themselves at risk and that emphasis will be placed on reaching 7 DI wins. Several teams from the SoCon and Southland in particular ignored this fact in their scheduling and ended up paying the price when they failed to reach 7 DI wins. Bitch all you want now, but the commitee didn't screw these teams, they did to themselves when their AD put together their schedule. UNH would have been left in the cold too if they hadn't scheduled wisely and avoided playing a DII squad becuase it would have left them with only 6 DI wins.


That's it right there.

[DetroitFlyer]

The NCAA posts their guidelines.
The NCAA defines what is a D-I school.



If a school chooses to ignore the guidelines they do so at their own peril.

If the NCAA said you needed 7 wins against teams that offer at least 30 scholarships, then that would make a game against a D-II school worth more than one against a non-scholarship D-I school. But that's not their criteria. Scheduling non-Scholarship programs helps the committee see if a team is really playoff worthy. Albany might have dominated their league, but losses to Hofstra and Montana showed what they would do against teams from playoff conferences. If San Diego had scheduled EWU and Northern Arizona, and won those games, it would carry some weight. Or if they lost, it would end all the debate here as to whether or not they deserved a playoff berth.

And for your other point:

EWU (0-1) against playoff teams
SIU (0-1) against playoff teams
EIU (0-1) against playoff teams
App State (0-1) against playoff teams

Some schools haven't played any playoff teams this year. Others are (1-0), beating only the school from their conference. With so many playoff teams, the CAA will have some schools with losing records against the others.


Trying to leave out the FACTS to make your lame argument.... Albany defeated playoff participant team Fordham. That shows me how Albany would do against "playoff" teams....xnonox

[FCS Preview]

Just to put my two cents in, there are very few "mid-majors" in the South. Davidson and Jacksonville come to mind, but they are not very good, and I doubt have any interest in playing SoCon schools. The options of playing a D-I "patsy" in the south are quite limited (VMI is only allowed 11 games a year). That is why you see so many D-II's on Southern schedules.

Considering Albany went to Montana, do you think they'd be willing to go to Statesboro? CCSU traveled to Towson. Think they could go a little farther to play a SoCon squad? If San Diego flies to Dayton, would they get on a plane to visit Furman or App State? If GSU can get 21K for West Georgia they could probably afford a guarantee for one of these schools to come down.
Stony Brook played Richmond, YSU, Maine, Elon...

NC Central, Savannah State, Presbyterian were all Independents this year.

Lousy teams? Most of them. But if they can get you a home game, and credit for a D-I win, take it...

[FCS Preview]

Trying to leave out the FACTS to make your lame argument.... Albany defeated playoff participant team Fordham. That shows me how Albany would do against "playoff" teams....xnonox

You're right, I forgot they beat Fordham. Mea culpa.

[MR. CHICKEN]

DELAWARE'S FINAL FOUR GAMES DIS SEASON......NAVY (W).....JMU (W)....RICHMOND.....(L 5-OT...AN' CO-CHAMPS...O' DUH MEGA-CAA)).....'NOVA.....(L)...(AN' 'NOVA ISN'T CHOPPED LIVER...TAKIN' UMA$$ TA 4 OT'S).....VERAH FEW O' DUH BIG BOYS.......COULD COME THRU DIS..UNSCATHED....APP STATE/MONTANA...ETC.........DUH RICHMOND LOSS WAS UH DRAINER........AN' WE WERE FLAT AS TIRES MADE IN CHINA...FO' 'NOVA.......OURAH D-II....IS UH PERENNIAL D-II PLAY-OFF SQWAD.....UNLIKE DUH MARS HILLS/FORT LEWIS'S.........WE WERE AS DESERVIN' AS ANYONE OUT DERE..LADS......BRAWK/watchOmarhe's#[email protected]

OH BRUTTER!

[GreatAppSt]

EWU (0-1) against playoff teams
SIU (0-1) against playoff teams
EIU (0-1) against playoff teams
App State (0-1) against playoff teams
UNH (1-3) against playoff teams
GSU (2-0) against playoff teams
.

Fixed it. ;)

[JDC325]

That's exactly the point. If UNH had played a D-II instead of Iona or Dartmouth they'd be sitting at home just like Georgia Southern. (I think UNH should be sitting at home anyway, because Villanova is a more deserving team, but that's a different matter.)

Like I said it is a REASON or and and EXCUSE. It does not make it right and the committee should use common sense instead of trying to look for a reason to exclude a SoCon member. The Dartmouth or Iona win should hold no more weight when applying common sense instead of good ole boy homerism. WHO you won against should matter as well! GSU beat App and Woff both in the playoffs what is UNH record vs. playoff teams this year? xnonono2x

[danefan]

Just to put my two cents in, there are very few "mid-majors" in the South. Davidson and Jacksonville come to mind, but they are not very good, and I doubt have any interest in playing SoCon schools. The options of playing a D-I "patsy" in the south are quite limited (VMI is only allowed 11 games a year). That is why you see so many D-II's on Southern schedules.

Central Conn. went to Statesboro last year and we all know how that worked out. Maybe that's the reason there is a DII on GSU's schedule.xpeacex

[FCS Preview]

Like I said it is a REASON or and and EXCUSE. It does not make it right and the committee should use common sense instead of trying to look for a reason to exclude a SoCon member. The Dartmouth or Iona win should hold no more weight when applying common sense instead of good ole boy homerism. WHO you won against should matter as well! GSU beat App and Woff both in the playoffs what is UNH record vs. playoff teams this year? xnonono2x
And if GSU doesn't miss a makable FG as time expires two weeks ago, they make the playfofs, too. I don't think the committee wanted to leave out one of the most successful teams in FCS playoff history. But they just didn't qualify.

[BestOfBreed]

Who keeps track of all these "unwritten rules"?

There was once a time when 3 conference losses meant you weren't getting into the playoffs. Now you don't even need a winning record in your conference to get in. I even remember a time when 4 losses meant no at-large but that's gone for good now too. Heck, there once was an old unwritten rule about no more than 3 teams from a conference. I really hated that one but it strangely ended the year after they last used it.

[gophoenix]

And if GSU doesn't miss a makable FG as time expires two weeks ago, they make the playfofs, too. I don't think the committee wanted to leave out one of the most successful teams in FCS playoff history. But they just didn't qualify.

There is no qualify to it. There is no minimum set in stone. That's what you people just don't get.

Since UNH and Delaware are both 1-3 against playoff competition. Maybe Towson should have gotten in too. They were 1-3 against playoff competition. Rhode Island and Northeastern were 1-4 each.

It stinks and it is a complete failure on the NCAA. The system we have encourages your conference to not have you guys play each other. It's called your padded schedules. And then padded further.

And then the other teams like SC State and Colgate are left out for stepping up.

It's a joke.

[GreatAppSt]

And if GSU doesn't miss a makable FG as time expires two weeks ago, they make the playfofs, too. I don't think the committee wanted to leave out one of the most successful teams in FCS playoff history. But they just didn't qualify.

There was an flagrantly obvious agenda with this years committee. And it sure wasn't assuring the best teams from around the country had a chance to compete on the field. Yes, they may hide behind their guidelines to make it look legit up front. xrulesx xeyebrowx
IMHO one of the reasons they are guidelines not hard rules is so they can make the exception to include good teams that my be just short of strict black and white rules. The fact is this committe chose to ignore doing what would hve been right for the FCS in lue of displaying the talents of one player.
That is truely sad. The FCS as a division is poorer today for their efforts, and FCS fans have been denied the best this division has to offer. This was by far the most pathetic body of work done by a selection committee in the history of the I AA/FCS.xtwocentsx

[BigApp]

I hope nobody on here is saying that a sorry non schllie FCS team is better than a DIV II team.

That's exactly what they're saying.

BTW, didn't GSU beat 3 'Conference Champions'? You're weak!

[Purple Knight]

Who were the eligible teams that clearly had better at-large resumes than UNH? I can only think of one--Villanova. So that wouldn't really make things any less fishy for you, I suppose.

Point to the non-CAA team(s) that clearly got hosed before you start calling anything "fishy."

Believe both Elon and The Citadel sre clearly better at-large choices. Bout the only way to settle this for the nCAA committee is to meet in a conference head-to-head in 08 or 09.

[gsugt1]

Believe both Elon and The Citadel sre clearly better at-large choices. .


Why ? GSU is the only team to beat App and Wofford. Beat them on the road too. By the way we beat The Citadel too. All ranked at the time we beat them.

[Syntax Error]

But how do you take EWU over YSU, WIU, SDSU, GSU, Elon, Citadel or Furman. Talk about a gift, but then it's the Big Fluffy and gifts fall from the sky. xrolleyesxSDSU is a transitioning team and ineligible.
None of those other schools have 7 D-I wins.
None of them have 4 conference losses either xwhistlexNone of them played 8 conference games either. xwhistlex

[BestOfBreed]

Quote:


None of them have 4 conference losses either xwhistlex
None of them played 8 conference games either. xwhistlex

All of them had winning records in their conference whereas a team that made it in as an at-large didn't xwhistlex

[UMass922]

Like I said it is a REASON or and and EXCUSE. It does not make it right and the committee should use common sense instead of trying to look for a reason to exclude a SoCon member. The Dartmouth or Iona win should hold no more weight when applying common sense instead of good ole boy homerism. WHO you won against should matter as well! GSU beat App and Woff both in the playoffs what is UNH record vs. playoff teams this year? xnonono2x

I agree, which is why the criteria need to be changed/reworded/etc. I think teams with six D-I wins should be declared effectively ineligible only if they also have more than three losses against FCS (or lower division) teams. GSU went 6-3 against FCS competition, with two wins over playoff teams and another excellent win over South Dakota State. Such a team is clearly one of the best eight in the country that didn't earn an auto-bid, and the criteria need to be adjusted so as not to exclude it. Just as wins over lower-division teams don't count toward a team's win total, losses to FBS teams shouldn't count against a team's loss total. The NCAA needs to define eligibility in terms of both wins and losses, not just the former.

My only point was that as the criteria are written now, the committee had to exclude GSU. And as I said in another comment, the only reason the seven D-I win minimum is not a hard-and-fast rule is to allow for the possibility of a season in which not enough teams meet that minimum, and taking a six-win team would be necessary to complete the field. But as long as there are eligible seven-win teams available, they are always going to be considered over six-win teams. That rule has been consistently applied in the past and there's no reason to believe it wouldn't have been applied to Delaware just as it applied to GSU, had the Hens lost one more game.

[UMass922]

Believe both Elon and The Citadel sre clearly better at-large choices. Bout the only way to settle this for the nCAA committee is to meet in a conference head-to-head in 08 or 09.

Neither Elon nor The Citadel had seven D-I wins.

[GSU 25+yrFan]

Stony Brook has 45 scholarships. That's more than UTM, not too far off Wofford. And a heck of a lot more than Iona and Dartmouth. So don't sit and give me that.

And the deal is. How do you penalize someone from playing a D-II team with 35 scholatrships but not penalize someone for playing two teams with no scholarships.

This isn't about Elon. So don't turn it into being about Elon. This is about SC State, Norfolk St, Colgate, Lafayette or Holy Cross.

I understand that Wofford is the smallest D1 school in the country and fields a FCS football team with an average SAT of something like 1350+ plus they have so much money they don't need scholarships.

[JDC325]

I agree, which is why the criteria need to be changed/reworded/etc. I think teams with six D-I wins should be declared effectively ineligible only if they also have more than three losses against FCS (or lower division) teams. GSU went 6-3 against FCS competition, with two wins over playoff teams and another excellent win over South Dakota State. Such a team is clearly one of the best eight in the country that didn't earn an auto-bid, and the criteria need to be adjusted so as not to exclude it. Just as wins over lower-division teams don't count toward a team's win total, losses to FBS teams shouldn't count against a team's loss total. The NCAA needs to define eligibility in terms of both wins and losses, not just the former.

My only point was that as the criteria are written now, the committee had to exclude GSU. And as I said in another comment, the only reason the seven D-I win minimum is not a hard-and-fast rule is to allow for the possibility of a season in which not enough teams meet that minimum, and taking a six-win team would be necessary to complete the field. But as long as there are eligible seven-win teams available, they are always going to be considered over six-win teams. That rule has been consistently applied in the past and there's no reason to believe it wouldn't have been applied to Delaware just as it applied to GSU, had the Hens lost one more game.


THEY DID NOT HAVE TOO!! IT IS NOT A RULE, I SAY AGAIN IT IS NOT A RULE.

[charliej]

There was an flagrantly obvious agenda with this years committee. And it sure wasn't assuring the best teams from around the country had a chance to compete on the field....

Not just this year,but quite often in the last 4-5 years.

Those that have been around long enough will remember Tony Moss.He used to cover 1AA football for The Sporting News.He knows this level of Football.

He wrote a book in '05 called "A Season in Purgatory", in it he talked about the selection committee. He said that in '02 members of the committee ,"politicked to keep an obviously desrving progam-Wofford College-out of the tounament". It was done again in '04 with Cal Poly. he went on to say that,due to lack of media outcry members of the committee are free to,"promote their own agendas when bracketing teams without any fear of being called on the carpet for their actions".

He said that by 2005,the 16 team field was more like a "flawed aristocracy,with enough corruption and dollar sign thinking at the highest levels of power to make a comparison with the arcane BCS system truly befitting"

Since the major sports media doesn't care for FCS football,and the few media outlets that do cover it simply drink up whatever the commitee is selling,I don't expect it to change anytime soon.

[UMass922]

THEY DID NOT HAVE TOO!! IT IS NOT A RULE, I SAY AGAIN IT IS NOT A RULE.

And I will say again something that I know I've said at least once before in this thread but you're choosing to ignore:

It's not a hard-and-fast rule only because of the possibility of a season in which there aren't enough teams with seven D-I wins to fill out the field--in which case the committee would have no choice but to take a six-win team as an at-large. Since there were enough teams with seven D-I wins this year to complete the field, six-win teams like Georgia Southern did not enter into the picture, fairly or not (and as I've said, I don't think it's fair, which is why the guidelines need to be adjusted).

[GreatAppSt]

And I which is why the guidelines need to be adjusted).xthumbsupx xnodx

[SuperEagle]

If the committee wants to stick to their guns and not let teams in that only have 6 DI wins then they need to stick with that. But my fear is that they will change it whenever it benefits their agenda. And that's the problem. We don't know the rules. 2 years ago GSU couldn't get a home game because they didn't want 3 teams from the same conference hosting 1st round games. Now as we all know this is no longer the case.
Now they say if you do not have 7DI wins you may not make the post-season. Will that change next year if it doesn't benefit the CAA?
Something needs to be done about this. Make a rule and stick with it.
How hard is that?

[gophoenix]

Not just this year,but quite often in the last 4-5 years.

Those that have been around long enough will remember Tony Moss.He used to cover 1AA football for The Sporting News.He knows this level of Football.

He wrote a book in '05 called "Season in Purgatory", in it he talked about the selection committee. He said that in '02 members of the committee ,"politicked to keep an obviously desrving progam-Wofford College-out of the tounament". It was done again in '04 with Cal Poly. he went on to say that,due to lack of media outcry members of the committee are free to,"promote their own agendas when bracketing teams without any fear of being called on the carpet for their actions".

He said that by 2005,the 16 team field was more like a "flawed aristocracy,with enough corruption and dollar sign thinking at the highest levels of power to make a comparison with the arcane BCS system truly befitting"

Since the major sports media doesn't care for FCS football,and the few media outlets that do cover it simply drink up whatever the commitee is selling,I don't expect it to change anytime soon.

Exactly. And it makes our "perfect system" to be ripe for the criticism of FBS when pointing out why a playoff won't work for them. If selection is already about name/tradition, players or money more than teams deserving for the year then we have already lost our system.

We have a good system and we've lett the committee ruin it. And all many say is "well at least it is better than the bowl system." Well, tell that to SC State or Norfolk St. They stepped up, played a tough schedule and paid the price.

And like I said, this to me has nothing to do with GSU, Elon or The Citadel. It has to do with choices made this year, home games chosen for teams and regionalization.

In I-AA, we now have a 3-4 league bias against everyone else much like the top 6 conferences in FBS. Should the SoCon have gotten another team. I can't say. But should another league have been given a shot over a 4-4 team in one league or over any team that is 1-3 against playoff teams already. You bet.

But now it is just beating a dead horse. We, as fans, are at the point where it doesn't matter. The media will ignore it. Money will talk. And money teams will always be taken over teams that may not bring in as much money. And that right there speaks to the corruption of it all.

And that is the ultimate shame in it all. The NCAA has made it about money and politics first and everything else comes second. It isn't about performance.

And ultimately it is accountability we are lacking. There are no checks and balances. We have no clue about the rankings they use. There are no reasons offered for decisions. And chosen criteria is not consistent in the past 10 years.

[HaveFunKc]

I wonder if the NCAA will still have 8 on the selection committee next year as they start to expand the playoffs (18 teams next year I think and eventually to 24 teams)? xconfusedx

[HaveFunKc]

If the committee wants to stick to their guns and not let teams in that only have 6 DI wins then they need to stick with that. But my fear is that they will change it whenever it benefits their agenda. And that's the problem. We don't know the rules. 2 years ago GSU couldn't get a home game because they didn't want 3 teams from the same conference hosting 1st round games. Now as we all know this is no longer the case.
Now they say if you do not have 7DI wins you may not make the post-season. Will that change next year if it doesn't benefit the CAA?
Something needs to be done about this. Make a rule and stick with it.
How hard is that?

Obviously a lot harder than trying to find decent refs in the Socon! xeekx

[gophoenix]

I wonder if the NCAA will still have 8 on the selection committee next year as they start to expand the playoffs (18 teams next year I think and eventually to 24 teams)? xconfusedx

8 is stupid.

They should have a rep from every league participating in the playoffs. If that means it is unbalanced, then tough.

East: Patriot, NEC, CAA
South: MEAC, Big South, SoCon
Midwest: Gateway, OVC, SWAC, Southland
West: Pioneer, Great West, Big Sky

Low and behold, it still pretty much balances out. Imagine that.

[HaveFunKc]

8 is stupid.

They should have a rep from every league participating in the playoffs. If that means it is unbalanced, then tough.

East: Patriot, NEC, CAA
South: MEAC, Big South, SoCon
Midwest: Gateway, OVC, SWAC, Southland
West: Pioneer, Great West, Big Sky

Low and behold, it still pretty much balances out. Imagine that.

Yea - I always wondered that too, but when it comes to the NCAA being intelligent on something... Well the term "oxi-moron" comes to mind. xlolx

[UMass922]

Now they say if you do not have 7DI wins you may not make the post-season. Will that change next year if it doesn't benefit the CAA?

If it does, then you can cry foul and I'll agree that we have something fishy on our hands. But thus far, as far as I'm aware, the seven-win guideline has always been applied consistently and without exception.

I'm running out of things to tell you. I'm sorry your team didn't make the playoffs, I would have liked to see them qualify because they're a good team (better than UNH, IMHO), and I think the selection criteria need to be changed. But I don't believe there's a conspiracy going on here, which is clearly what you're trying to suggest. Once you can point to me that non-CAA team that, according to the guidelines as they're currently written, got absolutely positively hosed, then I'll start to believe you.

[ASUSoCon]

The threshold of 7 D-I wins is what is the problem. This unwritten "rule" gives a clear advantage to teams in the Northeast where there are plenty of non-scholarship Division I teams to beat up on (Iona playing New Hampshire). Iona is actually a pretty good non-scholarship team, but I doubt they would be competitive in the SAC-8 Division II in North and South Carolina (Carson-Newman, Catawba, Wingate) not to mention Valdosta State and Delta State.

FCS teams in the South play Division II teams out of necessity for two reasons: They do not have to have a return trip and transportation is by bus for the Division II team thus meaning a cheaper trip.

Is New Hampshire returning their game to Iona? I seriously doubt it. In the Northeast the NEC is an example of a conference that the CAA plays, but in 90% to 100% of the cases it is exclusively a home game for the CAA and the game counts as a D-I win.

With the exception of Davidson and Jacksonville, there are no non-scholarship FCS teams in the Southeast within driving distance. PLUS, there would be the expectation that a return trip would occur. This does not occur in NEC to CAA match-ups.

-------

Case in point:

New Hampshire BEATS Iona (non-scholarship D1 win) gets them to seven

Delaware BEATS Monmouth (non-scholarship D1 win, this win gives them the edge over GSU, The Citadel or Youngstown)

------

Yet Georgia Southern beats West Georgia and the win means nothing.

------

Seven is a good round number, but with the number of FBS games that are demanded from schools and the lack of FCS non-scholly teams in the Southeast, Midwest, and West, I find this rule antiquated.

Whatever happened to picking the best 16 and not worrying about some 7 Division 1 wins rule? This rule year in and year out has helped the CAA and Patriot League to extra bids.

[Squealofthepig]

The threshold of 7 D-I wins is what is the problem. This unwritten "rule" gives a clear advantage to teams in the Northeast where there are plenty of non-scholarship Division I teams to beat up on (Iona playing New Hampshire). Iona is actually a pretty good non-scholarship team, but I doubt they would be competitive in the SAC-8 Division II in North and South Carolina (Carson-Newman, Catawba, Wingate) not to mention Valdosta State and Delta State.

FCS teams in the South play Division II teams out of necessity for two reasons: They do not have to have a return trip and transportation is by bus for the Division II team thus meaning a cheaper trip.

Is New Hampshire returning their game to Iona? I seriously doubt it. In the Northeast the NEC is an example of a conference that the CAA plays, but in 90% to 100% of the cases it is exclusively a home game for the CAA and the game counts as a D-I win.

With the exception of Davidson and Jacksonville, there are no non-scholarship FCS teams in the Southeast within driving distance. PLUS, there would be the expectation that a return trip would occur. This does not occur in NEC to CAA match-ups.

-------

Case in point:

New Hampshire BEATS Iona (non-scholarship D1 win) gets them to seven

Delaware BEATS Monmouth (non-scholarship D1 win, this win gives them the edge over GSU, The Citadel or Youngstown)

------

Yet Georgia Southern beats West Georgia and the win means nothing.

------

Seven is a good round number, but with the number of FBS games that are demanded from schools and the lack of FCS non-scholly teams in the Southeast, Midwest, and West, I find this rule antiquated.

Whatever happened to picking the best 16 and not worrying about some 7 Division 1 wins rule? This rule year in and year out has helped the CAA and Patriot League to extra bids.

What a great post! I think you're dead-on (though would add many teams in the west have a similar conundrum). I would definitely note that a GSU in this year's playoffs would definitely make it one for the ages!

[SuperEagle]

If it does, then you can cry foul and I'll agree that we have something fishy on our hands. But thus far, as far as I'm aware, the seven-win guideline has always been applied consistently and without exception.

I'm running out of things to tell you. I'm sorry your team didn't make the playoffs, I would have liked to see them qualify because they're a good team (better than UNH, IMHO), and I think the selection criteria need to be changed. But I don't believe there's a conspiracy going on here, which is clearly what you're trying to suggest. Once you can point to me that non-CAA team that, according to the guidelines as they're currently written, got absolutely positively hosed, then I'll start to believe you.
**
UMASS922, you're a good poster and I welcome your opinion. And quite frankly, I would not have put GSU in this year. I think 4 losses is not good enough. But I had a major beef with UNH going. And while we did schedule a DII, when I saw that our strength of schedule was considerably higher than UNH's it then started to bother me alot. That's when I really thought we should have made it. We had the same record but played a harder schedule. That should count for someting IMO.
I just want them to make a list of rules and stick to them. Then I would be happy. Don't make suggestions. Make it out that teams HAVE to have 7DI wins or even better, say the heck with that and just pick the best at large teams out there. And conferences cannot HAVE 3 teams hosting first round games. At one time that was their unwritten rule. Well, make a decision, right it down so we'll know what is the truth there. Then we would all know what to expect. If it's set in stone it would give very little wiggle room when selection time came.
It's funny though. Lots of 4 loss teams are now making the playoffs. But we've still not seen a 4 loss SOCON make it yet. Maybe one day.

[SuperEagle]

The threshold of 7 D-I wins is what is the problem. This unwritten "rule" gives a clear advantage to teams in the Northeast where there are plenty of non-scholarship Division I teams to beat up on (Iona playing New Hampshire). Iona is actually a pretty good non-scholarship team, but I doubt they would be competitive in the SAC-8 Division II in North and South Carolina (Carson-Newman, Catawba, Wingate) not to mention Valdosta State and Delta State.

FCS teams in the South play Division II teams out of necessity for two reasons: They do not have to have a return trip and transportation is by bus for the Division II team thus meaning a cheaper trip.

Is New Hampshire returning their game to Iona? I seriously doubt it. In the Northeast the NEC is an example of a conference that the CAA plays, but in 90% to 100% of the cases it is exclusively a home game for the CAA and the game counts as a D-I win.

With the exception of Davidson and Jacksonville, there are no non-scholarship FCS teams in the Southeast within driving distance. PLUS, there would be the expectation that a return trip would occur. This does not occur in NEC to CAA match-ups.

-------

Case in point:

New Hampshire BEATS Iona (non-scholarship D1 win) gets them to seven

Delaware BEATS Monmouth (non-scholarship D1 win, this win gives them the edge over GSU, The Citadel or Youngstown)

------

Yet Georgia Southern beats West Georgia and the win means nothing.

------

Seven is a good round number, but with the number of FBS games that are demanded from schools and the lack of FCS non-scholly teams in the Southeast, Midwest, and West, I find this rule antiquated.

Whatever happened to picking the best 16 and not worrying about some 7 Division 1 wins rule? This rule year in and year out has helped the CAA and Patriot League to extra bids.
**
great post. one more thing to add, back in 05 we had a last minute cancellation and had to find someone to play us. we looked everywhere and for a while it got real hairy whether or not we could find a home opener. well, one of our assistants had contact with the coaching staff at DII Johnson C. Smith so we were able to convince them to come. Fortunately, we won 8 games so it didn't matter. But what if we would have only won 7 that year? Would we have been penalized for someone else backing out of a game with us leaving us with very few options. That wouldn't have been fair would it? I agree with you that they need to pick the best teams available after the AQ's and say the heck with the 7 win rule. Go by the GPI, rankings, Sagarin, strength of schedule, whatever. But get the best teams out there.

[BALD EAGLE]

Major FCS Advocate stated regarding Ga. Southern -

"I don't think the committee wanted to leave out one of the most successful teams in FCS playoff history."

For those that are interested these are Ga. Southern's playoff records:

6 National Championships

Playoff record of 38-10

16 Times in the playoff

By Comparison:

The team with the closest number of National Championships is
Youngstown State with 4.

The Teams with the next best playoff records are Youngstown State
at 25-7, Montana at 24-15 and Marshall at 23-6

Eastern Kentucky and Montana have been to the playoffs 17 times

Teams that are in the Southern Conference now or were when they won a National Championship have won 11 National Championships since 1985.

Since 1999 teams from the Southern Conference have won 4 National Championships including the last two.

Teams from the CAA have won 3 National Championships since 1998.

[SoCon48]

That may explain some things. A member from a school that technically isn't even in the South and the other with a chip on their shoulder about the SoCon.

And yes, I would have put UNH in myself, but not Delaware.

For once, you and I agree on something.

[Syntax Error]

Anyone in the know can give us some info on this group that put together this bracket.*2007 D-I football committee members who voted and made the bracket (the rest are regional advisors)

Central
*Tim Van Alstine, Western Illinois University, chair
*Don Kaverman, Southeast Missouri State University
Paul Dane, University of Tennessee at Martin
Brian Hutchinson, Morehead State University
Mark Labarbera, Valparaiso University
Ron Strollo, Youngstown State University

East
*John McCutcheon, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, chair
*Bruce McCutcheon, Lafayette College
Mark Hermann, Towson University
Bob Krimmel, St. Francis University (Pennsylvania)
Patrick Lyons, Iona College
Ron Ratner, Northeast Conference
Dave Roach, Colgate University

South
*Warren Koegel, Coastal Carolina University, chair
*Floyd Kerr, Morgan State University
Sam Baker, Georgia Southern University
Charles Cobb, Appalachian State University
Cori Lima, Southwestern Athletic Conference
Hank Small, Charleston Southern University
Joe Taylor, Hampton University

West
*Terry Wanless, California State University, Sacramento, chair
*Robert Bernardi, Nicholls State University
Paul Bubb, Idaho State University
Alison Cone, California Polytechnic State University
Robert Hill, Stephen F. Austin State University

[danefan]

The threshold of 7 D-I wins is what is the problem. This unwritten "rule" gives a clear advantage to teams in the Northeast where there are plenty of non-scholarship Division I teams to beat up on (Iona playing New Hampshire). Iona is actually a pretty good non-scholarship team, but I doubt they would be competitive in the SAC-8 Division II in North and South Carolina (Carson-Newman, Catawba, Wingate) not to mention Valdosta State and Delta State.

FCS teams in the South play Division II teams out of necessity for two reasons: They do not have to have a return trip and transportation is by bus for the Division II team thus meaning a cheaper trip.

Is New Hampshire returning their game to Iona? I seriously doubt it. In the Northeast the NEC is an example of a conference that the CAA plays, but in 90% to 100% of the cases it is exclusively a home game for the CAA and the game counts as a D-I win.

With the exception of Davidson and Jacksonville, there are no non-scholarship FCS teams in the Southeast within driving distance. PLUS, there would be the expectation that a return trip would occur. This does not occur in NEC to CAA match-ups.

-------

Case in point:

New Hampshire BEATS Iona (non-scholarship D1 win) gets them to seven

Delaware BEATS Monmouth (non-scholarship D1 win, this win gives them the edge over GSU, The Citadel or Youngstown)

------

Yet Georgia Southern beats West Georgia and the win means nothing.

------

Seven is a good round number, but with the number of FBS games that are demanded from schools and the lack of FCS non-scholly teams in the Southeast, Midwest, and West, I find this rule antiquated.

Whatever happened to picking the best 16 and not worrying about some 7 Division 1 wins rule? This rule year in and year out has helped the CAA and Patriot League to extra bids.

Monmouth is a partial scholarship team in the NEC (30 scholarship cap right now).

[ChickenMan]

For once, you and I agree on something.


While I agree that UD finished poorly.. they were 8-3 with wins over JMU.. who is also 8-3 and in the playoffs and Navy who is a bowl bound FBS team. If you look at the 'entire' season.. there is just no way that UD did not merit a playoff bid.. and once you consider the alternatives that is pretty obvious.

[UncleSam]

For once, you and I agree on something.

Are you serious, SoCon guys bitching about not getting in GSU or Elon, both who are 7-4 over an 8-3 Delaware, what a joke. You guys want to toss UD out because they lost their last 2 games, but apparently the FACT that GSU lost their LAST 2 games to a very modest Furman and a weak FBS Colorado St is no problem at all... xrolleyesx Throw Elon in there as well, they had a chance to win the SoCon but choked and lost 2 of their last 3, both to non-playoff schools. Get a clue please.

Obviously rampant homerism is alive and well down Dixie way. :p

[FCS Preview]

FCS teams in the South play Division II teams out of necessity for two reasons: They do not have to have a return trip and transportation is by bus for the Division II team thus meaning a cheaper trip.

Translation - they want a home game every year. That's understandable. But there are teams willing to travel.

First of all, there is NC Central, Presbyterian and Savannah State. All independent which means they need to schedule 11 games, with no conference help. All in the south.

Then there's:
Stony Brook (NY) traveled to Youngstown and Richmond
Marist went to San Diego
Southern Utah went to Youngstown
Albany went to Montana and Dayton
Central Connecticut went to Towson
Wagner went to Jacksonville

If you make so much money from a home game, then kick in some bucks and I'm sure you could get a team like those above willing to come down.

[Ronin]

Major FCS Advocate stated regarding Ga. Southern -

"I don't think the committee wanted to leave out one of the most successful teams in FCS playoff history."

For those that are interested these are Ga. Southern's playoff records:

6 National Championships

Playoff record of 38-10

16 Times in the playoff

By Comparison:

The team with the closest number of National Championships is
Youngstown State with 4.

The Teams with the next best playoff records are Youngstown State
at 25-7, Montana at 24-15 and Marshall at 23-6

Eastern Kentucky and Montana have been to the playoffs 17 times

Teams that are in the Southern Conference now or were when they won a National Championship have won 11 National Championships since 1985.

Since 1999 teams from the Southern Conference have won 4 National Championships including the last two.

Teams from the CAA have won 3 National Championships since 1998.

History prior to the start of this season should have nothing to do with who is in or out.

[BestOfBreed]

History prior to the start of this season should have nothing to do with who is in or out.

Unfortunately or maybe fortunately (depending on which side of the fence you're on), history has a lot to do with who is in or out.

[gophoenix]

Are you serious, SoCon guys bitching about not getting in GSU or Elon, both who are 7-4 over an 8-3 Delaware, what a joke. You guys want to toss UD out because they lost their last 2 games, but apparently the FACT that GSU lost their LAST 2 games to a very modest Furman and a weak FBS Colorado St is no problem at all... xrolleyesx Throw Elon in there as well, they had a chance to win the SoCon but choked and lost 2 of their last 3, both to non-playoff schools. Get a clue please.

Obviously rampant homerism is alive and well down Dixie way. :p

Not many are complaining about Elon and GSU not making, but are complaining about one of SC State, Norfolk St, Lafayette, Holy Cross or Colgate not being selected.

I love you you guys keep spinning it to be about Elon or GSU, when that is not the case. There have been a few cases for Elon and a few more for GSU but MORE for the other 5 teams mentioned.

Try reading.

[gsugt1]

but apparently the FACT that GSU lost their LAST 2 games to a very modest Furman and a weak FBS Colorado St is no problem at all...

Obviously rampant homerism is alive and well down Dixie way. :p

In our last 5 games they we were 3-2. We beat App in Boone, The Citadel at home and Wofford on the road. App and Wofford were both ranked in top 10. Who else has 2 bigger wins on the road this year ? Just curious.

UNH had a 4-4 confrence mark. They should have chosen Nova who was 5-3.

[gsugt1]

Does the committee answer to anyone ? Does anyone look at what they are doing to assure they are doing a good job ?

[terrierbob]

What's that supposed to mean??? Are they even a school?? What the hell are you talking about??

He's just hyperventilating.

[Dblue]

We beat App in Boone, The Citadel at home and Wofford on the road. App and Wofford were both ranked in top 10. Who else has 2 bigger wins on the road this year ? Just curious.

UNH had a 4-4 confrence mark. They should have chosen Nova who was 5-3.

How many D-1 wins do you have? Just curious.

Edit: Never mind...forgot you beat West Georgia, that must make it the magic 7.
Am i right?

[GreatAppSt]

How many D-1 wins do you have? Just curious.xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[Syntax Error]

How many D-1 wins do you have? Just curious.C'mon he just gave you three of them. Guess the other three.

[charliej]

Does the committee answer to anyone ? Does anyone look at what they are doing to assure they are doing a good job ?


No xsmhx