Would BSC Be Looked at Differently if EWU had Beaten the Griz?

[AZGrizFan]

Just curious....if EWU had beaten the Griz (which by all rights, they should have), would the BSC be looked at as better or worse in your eyes....

Or would EWU just look better, and UM worse?

xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx


Talk amongst yourselves....

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

That's kind of a rhetorical question on here isn't it?

[AZGrizFan]

That's kind of a rhetorical question on here isn't it?

The reason I ask it is because if EWU had won that game, they'd finish 9-2 (assuming a victory over Weber), with their only losses to a I-A and a cellar dweller....eerily similar to UMass, yet we hear NOTHING about UMass's strength of schedule.

EWU has beaten the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th place teams in the BSC handily, and lost to the #1 team by 1 point. The only day they decided not to show up was against PSU...

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

The reason I ask it is because if EWU had won that game, they'd finish 9-2 (assuming a victory over Weber), with their only losses to a I-A and a cellar dweller....eerily similar to UMass, yet we hear NOTHING about UMass's strength of schedule.

EWU has beaten the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th place teams in the BSC handily, and lost to the #1 team by 1 point. The only day they decided not to show up was against PSU...

OH i know why you're asking and I agree with you...but you know how everyone will respond...i give it five minutes before Ronin is throwing in his xtwocentsx xlolx xthumbsupx

[kalm]

Great point, and I've wondered the same thing.

I'm guessing it would make both teams and the conference as a whole look more competitive and stronger. 10-1 is nothing to be trifled with and still deserving of a seed.

[Grizaholic17]

EWU would not be looked at differently. The only thing people would talk about is how UM is so bad because they lost to the Eags. EWU would not get any respect because everyone thinks UM isn't as good as they really are anyway.

[Hansel]

BSC non-conf record against FCS

EWU 1-0, beat UC-Davis (4-6 GWFC) 41-31 at EWU
UNC 0-2, lost 21-56 at Cal Poly (7-4 GWFC) and 13-49 at San Diego (9-1 Pioneer)
Idaho St 0-1 lost to Cal Poly 48-28 in Pocatello
Sac St 0-1 lost to UC-Davis 26-31 in Sacramento
Weber 0-1 lost to Cal Poly 19-47 at Poly
NAU 0-1 lost to App St (8-2 SoCon) 21-34 in Boone
Montana State 1-0 beat S. Utah (0-10) 7-3 in Bozeman
Montana 2-0 beat S. Utah (37-17) and Albany (7-3 NEC) 37-14 both in Missoula
Portland St 0-2 lost at McNeese (10-0 SLC) 12-35 and at home to Davis 17-26

A total record of 4-8
All wins came at home
2 wins came against winless S. Utah
1 came against a Mid-Major
and the best victory was EWU beating a 4-6 UC Davis team

if the BSC could have won some of those games (or preferably scheduled more games against quality FCS) then the BSC would be more highly regarded

It appears adding UNC to the conference may be hurting the Big Sky SOS as they are replacing potential quality OOC team with a 1-9 team

[AZGrizFan]

BSC non-conf record against FCS

EWU 1-0, beat UC-Davis (4-6 GWFC) 41-31 at EWU
UNC 0-2, lost 21-56 at Cal Poly (7-4 GWFC) and 13-49 at San Diego (9-1 Pioneer)
Idaho St 0-1 lost to Cal Poly 48-28 in Pocatello
Sac St 0-1 lost to UC-Davis 26-31 in Sacramento
Weber 0-1 lost to Cal Poly 19-47 at Poly
NAU 0-1 lost to App St (8-2 SoCon) 21-34 in Boone
Montana State 1-0 beat S. Utah (0-10) 7-3 in Bozeman
Montana 2-0 beat S. Utah (37-17) and Albany (7-3 NEC) 37-14 both in Missoula
Portland St 0-2 lost at McNeese (10-0 SLC) 12-35 and at home to Davis 17-26

A total record of 4-8
All wins came at home
2 wins came against winless S. Utah
1 came against a Mid-Major
and the best victory was EWU beating a 4-6 UC Davis team

if the BSC could have won some of those games (or preferably scheduled more games against quality FCS) then the BSC would be more highly regarded

It appears adding UNC to the conference may be hurting the Big Sky SOS as they are replacing potential quality OOC team with a 1-9 team

While I agree about the issues UNC brings to the table, let's take a look at some of the LOSSES:

Cal Poly (three times)
ASU
McNeese State

So, 5 of the 8 losses are against teams with a combined record of 25-6.

If you count UNC against USD (which we ALL expected UNC to lose), it's 6 of the 8 against teams with a combined record of 34-7.

We're not playing (for the most part) the Quincy's and Lenoir Rynes of the world....

Now, it'd be nice if we'd win one occasionally... xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx

[Gil Dobie]

Now if EWU had beaten BYU xthumbsupx

[AZGrizFan]

Now if EWU had beaten BYU xthumbsupx

BYU >>>> Minnesota
BYU >>>>>>>>>>> Central Michigan



;)

[Grizaholic17]

BYU >>>> Minnesota
BYU >>>>>>>>>>> Central Michigan



;)

xsmileyclapx Point made I think

[nmatsen]

BYU >>>> Minnesota
BYU >>>>>>>>>>> Central Michigan



;)


I think it may be more like


BYU >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Minnesota
BYU>>>>>>>>>>>>Central Michigan


I must admit, I agree with your synopsis of the Big Sky being looked at differently if EWU beats Montana. For some reason I think that the big sky is being looked at as "poor" because one of their teams went undefeated (so far). I feel as though the Gateway has gotten the same rap. It seems like most years people talk of three teams making it from each of our respective conferences. Heck, it hasn't even been five years since the Gateway got four (and won three).

[Gil Dobie]

BYU >>>> Minnesota
BYU >>>>>>>>>>> Central Michigan



;)

More Bison envy xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx




;)

[Grizaholic17]

More Bison envy xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx




;)

you wish. We know no envy

[Gil Dobie]

you wish. We know no envy

Who brought NDSU into an EWU thread. xeekx

[Grizaholic17]

Who brought NDSU into an EWU thread. xeekx

what? We mentioned Minnesota...not whoever you are talking about. I don't even know them. Is this NDSU you speak of making the playoffs? That's too bad if they aren't, I love to play them.:D

[Pattycakes]

ndsu, although its great that you beat a fbs team, you beat minnesota which as much as this kills me to admit, is completely pathetic. plus the way the gophers played that day, i bet a lot of fcs teams would have beat them.

[Gil Dobie]

what? We mentioned Minnesota...not whoever you are talking about. I don't even know them. Is this NDSU you speak of making the playoffs? That's too bad if they aren't, I love to play them.:D

Who brought NDSU into this topic. xeekx

[Grizaholic17]

Who brought NDSU into this topic. xeekx

you did.

[Gil Dobie]

ndsu, although its great that you beat a fbs team, you beat minnesota which as much as this kills me to admit, is completely pathetic. plus the way the gophers played that day, i bet a lot of fcs teams would have beat them.

This is an EWU thread. xoopsx

[Gil Dobie]

you did.

Why were Minnesota and CMU Brought up then. xeyebrowx

[Grizaholic17]

Why were Minnesota and CMU Brought up then. xeyebrowx

but how is that considered envy? Your college was not mentioned. I wonder if envy is a term you use out of context?

[Gil Dobie]

but how is that considered envy? Your college was not mentioned. I wonder if envy is a term you use out of context?

And your comment about "Point Made" xwhistlex

[Grizaholic17]

And your comment about "Point Made" xwhistlex

Your logic is out of my reach I guess. You keep bringin' up your team in unrelated topics xthumbsupx

[Gil Dobie]

Your logic is out of my reach I guess. You keep bringin' up your team in unrelated topics xthumbsupx

I brought up someone on EWU's schedule, someone else brought up a couple teams on my teams schedule. xcoffeex

[Grizaholic17]

I brought up someone on EWU's schedule, someone else brought up a couple teams on my teams schedule. xcoffeex

no you didn't. You brought up something about envy. Anyway...if EWU had one, nothing would change about the look on the BSC.

[Gil Dobie]

no you didn't. You brought up something about envy. Anyway...if EWU had one, nothing would change about the look on the BSC.

The threads read from page 1-2-3, from top to bottom, not reverse order.xlolx

[Grizaholic17]

The threads read from page 1-2-3, from top to bottom, not reverse order.xlolx

okay. you obviously will not budge on what you say you didn't bring up. Dumb argument. xpeacex

[Hansel]

We're not playing (for the most part) the Quincy's and Lenoir Rynes of the world....


7/9 BSC teams played a lower division school 6 cupcakes + Chadron who wiped the floor with UNC

BSC lower division opponents
Ft Lewis (Twice) 1-9 DII
Dixie St 3-8 DII
Mt Western 5-6 NAIA
Chadron State DII (10-0) beat UNC 31-0
Southern Oregon NAIA 5-4
W New Mexico DII 4-6

[Grizaholic17]

7/9 BSC teams played a lower division school 6 cupcakes + Chadron who wiped the floor with UNC

BSC lower division opponents
Ft Lewis (Twice) 1-9 DII
Dixie St 3-8 DII
Mt Western 5-6 NAIA
Chadron State DII (10-0) beat UNC 31-0
Southern Oregon NAIA 5-4
W New Mexico DII 4-6

xcoffeex

[DuckDuckGriz]

7/9 BSC teams played a lower division school 6 cupcakes + Chadron who wiped the floor with UNC

BSC lower division opponents
Ft Lewis (Twice) 1-9 DII
Dixie St 3-8 DII
Mt Western 5-6 NAIA
Chadron State DII (10-0) beat UNC 31-0
Southern Oregon NAIA 5-4
W New Mexico DII 4-6

Show many any conference where all or most of their teams didn't play an opponent like that. After this season you can throw the Big Ten in there too.

[Hansel]

Show many any conference where all or most of their teams didn't play an opponent like that. After this season you can throw the Big Ten in there too.

It was stated that Big Sky teams don't play teams like "Quincy or Lenoir Rhyne"

I was merely proving someone wrong...... again ;)

[Obzerver]

If EWU had won and ended up as a higher seed(for playoffs) it would allow some of the high seeds to breath easier as they would not have to play EWU. They are playing pretty good ball(a year earlier than expected)and are capable of beating anyone...now if they lose this Sat. I didn't just say that!

[AZGrizFan]

More Bison envy xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx




;)

Riiiiiiiiighhhhhht.

Is that what you call that? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[AZGrizFan]

7/9 BSC teams played a lower division school 6 cupcakes + Chadron who wiped the floor with UNC

BSC lower division opponents
Ft Lewis (Twice) 1-9 DII
Dixie St 3-8 DII
Mt Western 5-6 NAIA
Chadron State DII (10-0) beat UNC 31-0
Southern Oregon NAIA 5-4
W New Mexico DII 4-6

I'm aware of that list, but thank you for capsulizing it.

Now go look at the OOC lists for the SoCon or CAA. The list of patsies is three times as long (figuratively speaking, of course) :D

[Hansel]

I'm aware of that list, but thank you for capsulizing it.

Now go look at the OOC lists for the SoCon or CAA. The list of patsies is three times as long (figuratively speaking, of course) :D

6/8 SoCon
and 1/12 CAA teams played a lower division team

both lower percentages than the BSC sorry but you are wrong.... again

the SLC plays a lot of DII schools, that is about the only conf who plays more sub DI schools than the BSC

[CamelCityAppFan]

Now go look at the OOC lists for the SoCon or CAA. The list of patsies is three times as long (figuratively speaking, of course) :D

OK, I did go look at the OOC list for the SoCon (I'll leave it to someone from the CAA to defend their honor).

Here's the SoCon OOC breakdown:

DIV I-A: 10 total games, 1-8 overall, 1 yet to be played.
DIV I-AA: 16 total games, 11-3 overall, 3 yet to be played.
DIV II/NAIA: 6 total games, 5-1 overall, all played.

So, to sum up: 26 games at our division or higher. 6 games at a lower division. That's some list of patsies...xcoffeex

[appfan2008]

OK, I did go look at the OOC list for the SoCon (I'll leave it to someone from the CAA to defend their honor).

Here's the SoCon OOC breakdown:

DIV I-A: 10 total games, 1-8 overall, 1 yet to be played.
DIV I-AA: 16 total games, 11-3 overall, 3 yet to be played.
DIV II/NAIA: 6 total games, 5-1 overall, all played.

So, to sum up: 26 games at our division or higher. 6 games at a lower division. That's some list of patsies...xcoffeex

certainly not nearly as impressive a list of patsies as the bsc

[AZGrizFan]

It was stated that Big Sky teams don't play teams like "Quincy or Lenoir Rhyne"

I was merely proving someone wrong...... again ;)

OK, smartazz. ;)

Let's look at your future conference mates:

Mankato State
Quincy
Lockhaven
St Francis
Mo Rolla (I LOVE that one)

Drake - Twice (including one loss)
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Hampton
Southern Utah - three times
Stonybrook
SFA
UT-Martin
SE Missouri State -twice
Murray State
Austin Peay
SDSU - three times
NDSU - twice
Central Arkansas

Outside of the two games against NDSU, that ain't exactly murderer's row. Explain to me, exactly, how THAT gets the Gateway such a great SOS?

It comes down to one thing, plain and simple: There's the BSC, the GWFC, and if we REALLY want to travel, the Southland. We don't have an NEC, a PFL (except for USD), a Patriot League, the Ivys, the MEAC, SWAC, OVC, MAAC or Big South conference to beat up on and pad our schedules with. At least not without bankrupting us. Hell, even all the independents are on the East Coast.

Next I'll do the Southern Conference. ;) xeyebrowx xeyebrowx

[AZGrizFan]

As promised, here's the SoCon:

Lenoir-Rhyne
West Georgia
WEst Virgina-Wesley
Webber College (do they make grills there?)
Carson Newman
Georgetown (Kentucky???)

Charleston Southern - twice
Gardner Webb - twice
Northern Arizona
Coastal Carolina - twice
SDSU
Liberty
Stonybrook
VMI (I know, I know, it's a "classic" xrolleyesx )
Presbyterian - twice - seriously?
Hofstra
Jacksonville State
Eastern Kentucky

Again, outside of NAU ;) and SDSU, not exactly murderer's row. But one thing DID strike me as I reviewed the SoCon results: WTF was Western Carolina doing scheduling Alabama AND Georgia??? xeekx xeekx xeekx

ANyways....we could tear down EVERY conference if we wanted....SOS is just as subjective as human polls.... xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[AZGrizFan]

OK, I did go look at the OOC list for the SoCon (I'll leave it to someone from the CAA to defend their honor).

Here's the SoCon OOC breakdown:

DIV I-A: 10 total games, 1-8 overall, 1 yet to be played.
DIV I-AA: 16 total games, 11-3 overall, 3 yet to be played.
DIV II/NAIA: 6 total games, 5-1 overall, all played.

So, to sum up: 26 games at our division or higher. 6 games at a lower division. That's some list of patsies...xcoffeex

Instead of looking at NUMBERS, look at the actual TEAMS. You're right....it is some list of patsies. See my above post. xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Tod]

6/8 SoCon
and 1/12 CAA teams played a lower division team

both lower percentages than the BSC sorry but you are wrong.... again

the SLC plays a lot of DII schools, that is about the only conf who plays more sub DI schools than the BSC

Six games for eight SoCon teams and seven games for nine BSC teams? You're really going to try to throw THAT in our face?

Come on!

xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[FargoBison]

As promised, here's the SoCon:

Lenoir-Rhyne
West Georgia
WEst Virgina-Wesley
Webber College (do they make grills there?)
Carson Newman
Georgetown (Kentucky???)

Charleston Southern - twice
Gardner Webb - twice
Northern Arizona
Coastal Carolina - twice
SDSU
Liberty
Stonybrook
VMI (I know, I know, it's a "classic" xrolleyesx )
Presbyterian - twice - seriously?
Hofstra
Jacksonville State
Eastern Kentucky

Again, outside of NAU ;) and SDSU, not exactly murderer's row. But one thing DID strike me as I reviewed the SoCon results: WTF was Western Carolina doing scheduling Alabama AND Georgia??? xeekx xeekx xeekx

ANyways....we could tear down EVERY conference if we wanted....SOS is just as subjective as human polls.... xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx


Both the Gateway and SoCon have some decent non-conference wins and that helps boost their SOS in comparison to the Big Sky that has no quality wins. SOS is about more then just who your confence plays in non-conference, winning games is part of the equation.

[AZGrizFan]

Both the Gateway and SoCon have some decent non-conference wins and that helps boost their SOS in comparison to the Big Sky that has no quality wins.

Oh, you must be referring to

Northern Illinois (2-8 in the MAC, for God's sake)
Iowa State (3-8)
Minnesota (1-10)
Central Michigan (powerhouse 6-4 in the MAC)

Wait....


There was that 'other' team from Michigan.... xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[FargoBison]

Oh, you must be referring to

Northern Illinois (2-8 in the MAC, for God's sake)
Iowa State (3-8)
Minnesota (1-10)
Central Michigan (powerhouse 6-4 in the MAC)

Wait....


There was that 'other' team from Michigan.... xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

Actually in regards to the SoCon I was talking about Michigan, SDSU, EKU, Hofstra, and NAU helping their SOS ranking. The computer remembers September when it comes to the Big Sky.

Luckily, for the Big Sky what happens in late November and December is all anyone remembers when its all said and done.

[CamelCityAppFan]

As promised, here's the SoCon:



If you want a complete list of SoCon OOC opponents, you have to include these teams as well:

Michigan
Alabama
USF
Wisconsin
Georgia
Clemson
North Carolina State
Arkansas
Western Kentucky
Colorado St.

[URMite]

Just curious....if EWU had beaten the Griz (which by all rights, they should have), would the BSC be looked at as better or worse in your eyes....

Or would EWU just look better, and UM worse?

xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx


Talk amongst yourselves....

I think this thead has gotten off the original point, which is a good one.

I think having 2 or 3 teams with losses among themselves and FBS (and maybe 1 other FCS loss) would improve the perception of the conference.

Look at the SoCon. Even when there seemed to be a big dropoff after the big three, there were fewer complaints and not as loud. With the BSC, as long as Montana can be separated from the rest, the other teams will need strong wins not just strong showings to change people's minds.

I think the overall perception is that MSU/EWU/NAU and even PSU are on the right track and always capable of a great game and a win, but appear inconsistent both within a season and season to season. I don't think the rest of the conference are viewed as being capable of being >.500 in the other major conferences. This seems to be based on final results and not how teams played during the games or what the makeup of the team is.

[AZGrizFan]

If you want a complete list of SoCon OOC opponents, you have to include these teams as well:

Michigan
Alabama
USF
Wisconsin
Georgia
Clemson
North Carolina State
Arkansas
Western Kentucky
Colorado St.

Yeah, I know. But I didn't include the BSC's FBS opponents either....you know, Boise State, BYU, Texas A&M, Fresno State, New Mexico, SDSU, Hawaii, blah blah blah....xrolleyesx

[AZGrizFan]

I think this thead has gotten off the original point, which is a good one.

I think having 2 or 3 teams with losses among themselves and FBS (and maybe 1 other FCS loss) would improve the perception of the conference.

Look at the SoCon. Even when there seemed to be a big dropoff after the big three, there were fewer complaints and not as loud. With the BSC, as long as Montana can be separated from the rest, the other teams will need strong wins not just strong showings to change people's minds.

I think the overall perception is that MSU/EWU/NAU and even PSU are on the right track and always capable of a great game and a win, but appear inconsistent both within a season and season to season. I don't think the rest of the conference are viewed as being capable of being >.500 in the other major conferences. This seems to be based on final results and not how teams played during the games or what the makeup of the team is.


DING DING DING......WE HAVE A WINNER!!! That VERY argument is spouted by MANY on this board as living proof of the STRENGTH of other conferences!!! The ONLY difference is Montana at the top. Otherwise, the other 8 teams shuffle every year, with it being a different team in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc., JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CONFERENCE!!! And yet, because Montana, through some sort of divine intervention, has managed to accomplish something NO OTHER TEAM can claim, the entire conference is bagged on.