Montana = Being Treated As This Year's San Diego?

[CharlestonAppFan]

I've read most of the SOS discussions about Montana and how their schedule should not matter with regards to seeding because they beat (or probably will beat) every team they have faced this yearxnodx . As I recall, our San Diego brothers badgered us to death last year because.......they beat every team on their schedule, however did not get into the playoffsxsmhx .

Now, I'm not absurd to think that Montana played a schedule like the Toreros do (or did last year)xnonox , but we all bashed GoToreros and others because of their SOS. All of us explained that SOS MATTERS and they didn't deserve to get in last year.

So....my inquiry is...does this argument about Montana's SOS hold any water into the seeding conversations this year, like San Diego's argument getting into the playoffs last year? Look at the PROJECTED top 4 seeds and their respective SOS...then look at the next 3-4 ranked teams SOS....xchinscratchx

Not trying to beat a dead horsexdeadhorsex ....just miss the San Diego bashing threads from a year ago:D

[GannonFan]

You said it already - it isn't the same deal because whereas people are mocking Montana for playing a weak Big Sky conference, that Big Sky conference is still, to any reasonable person, infinitely better than the competition USD saw in the PFL last year.

[grizzpaw]

and when EWU comes flying in (they can pass) you will see that the sky is no where near as bad as you think!

[FCS Go!]

McNeese would likely be in the same boat if SOS would come into the discussion as a deciding factor. I'm betting it won't though. If there were 5 or more undefeated teams from AQ conferences (or Great West) then it would be a factor.

I really hope that Montana's 2008 schedule is released ASAP so that this board will have something to do after the playoffs.xcoolx

[CharlestonAppFan]

I wasn't implying that the BSC stinks or isn't any good (or Montana for that matter)...I'm just referring to the seedings argument due to the SOS. Maybe I didn't clarify my point carefully enough....it's based on an argument regarding SOS and obtaining (in this case) a seed based upon it, rather than last year a playoff berth based on again...a SOS argument.

If App or UNI had a strength of schedule like Montana's..would we be having this conversation?

[FCS Go!]

I wasn't implying that the BSC stinks or isn't any good (or Montana for that matter)...I'm just referring to the seedings argument due to the SOS. Maybe I didn't clarify my point carefully enough....it's based on an argument regarding SOS and obtaining (in this case) a seed based upon it, rather than last year a playoff berth based on again...a SOS argument.

If App or UNI had a strength of schedule like Montana's..would we be having this conversation?

Yes, because both teams would have the same record as in the real world and the xbawlingx over the Griz schedule or anything else possibly Griz-negative would continue unabated.

[IABison]

Yet another Montana SOS thread? I'm starting to think this site needs to be renamed www.anygiventimesomeonewantstotalkaboutmontana'ssc hedule.com

xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

Yet another Montana SOS thread? I'm starting to think this site needs to be renamed www.anygiventimesomeonewantstotalkaboutmontana'ssc hedule.com

xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx

I second that motion xlolx xsmiley_wix xthumbsupx

There are four things I see come up in almost every thread

1. Montana's over-rated and has a weak SOS
2. The Big Sky is weak
3. Montana doesn't go on the road
4. APP STATE BEAT MICHIGAN AND NOTHING ELSE MATTERS (although I will admit this has FINALLY tapered off)

Figured I mention them all and get 'em out of the way lol

[Grizzaholic]

Yet another Montana SOS thread? I'm starting to think this site needs to be renamed www.anygiventimesomeonewantstotalkaboutmontana'ssc hedule.com

xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx

That is all there is to talk about. Montana's schedule, posters getting banned, BSC, Bikini thread, Montan's problems, SOS, and finally

Playoffs.

[nevadagriz]

I will say it again SOS is dependent on your opponents winning their games all you can do is win your own games! If SUU would have won even two games our SOS would look better, had PSU beat Mcneese, had NAU beat APPY. Hell Albany and EWU still have a outside shot at the Playoffs so they must not be that bad???? As far as the Big fluffy only UNI,APPY,NDSU and maybe DELAWARE would have a shot at going undefeated in the big sky!
My god how many fricking threads can we have about Montana receiving something they HAVE NOT yet received a fricking seed??????
If your teams are so damn good then you will have no problem coming to Missoula beating the griz by 50+ on your way to a NC.

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

I will say it again SOS is dependent on your opponents winning their games all you can do is win your own games! If SUU would have won even two games our SOS would look better, had PSU beat Mcneese, had NAU beat APPY. Hell Albany and EWU still have a outside shot at the Playoffs so they must not be that bad???? As far as the Big fluffy only UNI,APPY,NDSU and maybe DELAWARE would have a shot at going undefeated in the big sky!
My god how many fricking threads can we have about Montana receiving something they HAVE NOT yet received a fricking seed??????
If your teams are so damn good then you will have no problem coming to Missoula beating the griz by 50+ on your way to a NC.

xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

[Ronin]

I wasn't implying that the BSC stinks or isn't any good (or Montana for that matter)...I'm just referring to the seedings argument due to the SOS. Maybe I didn't clarify my point carefully enough....it's based on an argument regarding SOS and obtaining (in this case) a seed based upon it, rather than last year a playoff berth based on again...a SOS argument.

If App or UNI had a strength of schedule like Montana's..would we be having this conversation?

To answer your original question "does this argument about Montana's SOS hold any water into the seeding conversations this year." Yes, it should.

As for your second question above. Yes, I would expect the same type of conversation if UNI or ASU had a weak SOS and wanted a seed.

Earlier you mentioned SD and how they were ignored due to their SOS. The standards should apply to all. Montana is in the playoffs due to AQ and record. Should they be seeded? My vote is no. SIU and ASU deserve a seeding for their SOS and records.

[nevadagriz]

Of course you don't Ronin you have a huge boner against the Griz.
Are you the player who punched Decoite in the nuts last time we met in the playoffs???

[Ronin]

I second that motion xlolx xsmiley_wix xthumbsupx

There are four things I see come up in almost every thread

1. Montana's over-rated and has a weak SOS
2. The Big Sky is weak
3. Montana doesn't go on the road
4. APP STATE BEAT MICHIGAN AND NOTHING ELSE MATTERS (although I will admit this has FINALLY tapered off)

Figured I mention them all and get 'em out of the way lol

True, but I also see a lot of "Will Montana be seeded as #2 - #4". Once you open Pandora's box on seeding Montana's SOS will come into play.

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

True, but I also see a lot of "Will Montana be seeded as #2 - #4". Once you open Pandora's box on seeding Montana's SOS will come into play.

You just drool when you see these threads don't you xsmiley_wix xpeacex

[nevadagriz]

Note to selection committee please please please don't seed the griz send us on the road. ags posters have families who want them back because they are on the board all the time bitching about montana. Think of the wives and children!

[JohnStOnge]

If it were me I would not make either Montana or McNeese a seed if they finish undefeated because of strength of schedule. If I followed the GPI I might make McNeese a seed because the Cowboys are rated in the top 4 there. However, I look at the average ratings at http://www.mratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm as a better estimate. It has three polls in it and I don't really like polls but I don't think they have too much influence as there are 34 sets of power ratings. Besides, the polls all rate McNeese in the top 4 so if taking them out did anything it'd make them fall maybe to 7 instead of 6 in the overall average.

I think if you're objective and have to make the call you'd have to say that neither of those teams have had performances among the top 4 of eligible teams. Certainly playoff worthy but not top 4. Nothing they could control because their conferences were down but that's just the way it goes.

I think they'll both get seeds if they win their last games and, being a McNeese fan, I'm glad for that. But if it were me I wouldn't do it.

[LehighFan11]

I second that motion xlolx xsmiley_wix xthumbsupx

There are four things I see come up in almost every thread

1. Montana's over-rated and has a weak SOS
2. The Big Sky is weak
3. Montana doesn't go on the road
4. APP STATE BEAT MICHIGAN AND NOTHING ELSE MATTERS (although I will admit this has FINALLY tapered off)

Figured I mention them all and get 'em out of the way lol

we talk about them because they are true

[IABison]

Oh, good. Finally cooler heads will prevail... Ronin joins the discussion! xwhistlex xwhistlex xsmiley_wix

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

we talk about them because they are true

whether they're true or not is irrelevant....there must be SOMETHING else worth discussing. The issue creeps in even when the thread has NOTHING to do with those subjects is my point. xpeacex

[McNeeserocket]

I will say it again SOS is dependent on your opponents winning their games all you can do is win your own games! If SUU would have won even two games our SOS would look better, had PSU beat Mcneese, had NAU beat APPY. Hell Albany and EWU still have a outside shot at the Playoffs so they must not be that bad???? As far as the Big fluffy only UNI,APPY,NDSU and maybe DELAWARE would have a shot at going undefeated in the big sky!
My god how many fricking threads can we have about Montana receiving something they HAVE NOT yet received a fricking seed??????
If your teams are so damn good then you will have no problem coming to Missoula beating the griz by 50+ on your way to a NC.

I agree with the Montana fans here. Once a team schedules a football schedule, it is impossible to predict how strong that schedule will actually turn out to be at the end of the season that it is actually played. Montana and McNeese both could not have predicted that their own conference members would not win many or any out of conference games. We all have to schedule at least one year in advance (preferably more than one year in advance) and no matter what the record of the team(s) is at the time you set up your schedule, you cannot know how good or bad those teams will be one or more years in the future.

All teams and conferences have years where they did not perform up to expectations, for any variety of reasons, and conferences have the same problem at times.

The final analysis of how deserving a playoff team is will not be ascertained until after the playoffs and even then we all know that anything can happen on "ANY GIVEN SATURDAY."

[AZGrizFan]

To answer your original question "does this argument about Montana's SOS hold any water into the seeding conversations this year." Yes, it should.

As for your second question above. Yes, I would expect the same type of conversation if UNI or ASU had a weak SOS and wanted a seed.

Earlier you mentioned SD and how they were ignored due to their SOS. The standards should apply to all. Montana is in the playoffs due to AQ and record. Should they be seeded? My vote is no. SIU and ASU deserve a seeding for their SOS and records.

Why SIU? Their OOC schedule is Hampton (6-4 in mighty MEAC), SUU (0-10), Quincy (WHO?), and Arkansas-Pine Bluff (3-7 in mighty SWAC). Other than beating mighty Northern Illinois, just Gateway teams. And other than Northern Iowa, there's no world-beaters in the Gateway either. And other than ASU's win over Michigan, there's no signature OOC win in the Southern conference either to be able to say "this conference is so much better than the Big Sky." Just a mixed bag of victories over each other and some weak sisters of the poor.

Sorry, just don't see it. :)

[LehighFan11]

Why SIU? Their OOC schedule is Hampton (6-4 in mighty MEAC), SUU (0-10), Quincy (WHO?), and Arkansas-Pine Bluff (3-7 in mighty SWAC). Other than beating mighty Northern Illinois, just Gateway teams. And other than Northern Iowa, there's no world-beaters in the Gateway either. And other than ASU's win over Michigan, there's no signature OOC win in the Southern conference either to be able to say "this conference is so much better than the Big Sky." Just a mixed bag of victories over each other and some weak sisters of the poor.

Sorry, just don't see it. :)

I hope your not trying to say the So Con is not better than the Big Sky.

[CharlestonAppFan]

To answer your original question "does this argument about Montana's SOS hold any water into the seeding conversations this year." Yes, it should.

As for your second question above. Yes, I would expect the same type of conversation if UNI or ASU had a weak SOS and wanted a seed.

Earlier you mentioned SD and how they were ignored due to their SOS. The standards should apply to all. Montana is in the playoffs due to AQ and record. Should they be seeded? My vote is no. SIU and ASU deserve a seeding for their SOS and records.

This is what I was trying to refer to...just didn't make my argument clear. My intentions were not to royally piss Montana fans off, but it seemed to me that there existed somewhat of a double standard xnodx . Without having to justify myself, I believe that the standards should apply to all, regarding seeding as well.

There are a few teams IMO that are more deserving of a seed based on SOS; now is that going to happen...NOxsmhx . I wanted this to be a discussion, not a "why is everyone picking on Montana thread". xrotatehx

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

This is what I was trying to refer to...just didn't make my argument clear. My intentions were not to royally piss Montana fans off, but it seemed to me that there existed somewhat of a double standard xnodx . Without having to justify myself, I believe that the standards should apply to all, regarding seeding as well.

There are a few teams IMO that are more deserving of a seed based on SOS; now is that going to happen...NOxsmhx . I wanted this to be a discussion, not a "why is everyone picking on Montana thread". xrotatehx

But at some level you HAD to know it would turn into that xnonox xlolx xsmiley_wix

[Ronin]

You just drool when you see these threads don't you xsmiley_wix xpeacex

Damn can't find an icon for drooling... :D

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

Damn can't find an icon for drooling... :D

xlolx maybe you should suggest one to the AGS admin

[Ronin]

If it were me I would not make either Montana or McNeese a seed if they finish undefeated because of strength of schedule. If I followed the GPI I might make McNeese a seed because the Cowboys are rated in the top 4 there. However, I look at the average ratings at http://www.mratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm as a better estimate. It has three polls in it and I don't really like polls but I don't think they have too much influence as there are 34 sets of power ratings. Besides, the polls all rate McNeese in the top 4 so if taking them out did anything it'd make them fall maybe to 7 instead of 6 in the overall average.

I think if you're objective and have to make the call you'd have to say that neither of those teams have had performances among the top 4 of eligible teams. Certainly playoff worthy but not top 4. Nothing they could control because their conferences were down but that's just the way it goes.

I think they'll both get seeds if they win their last games and, being a McNeese fan, I'm glad for that. But if it were me I wouldn't do it.

Well written, objective and logical. xthumbsupx xbowx xbowx

[skinny_uncle]

Montana is not this year's San Diego.
Montana will actually make the playoffs.
:D

[putter]

I hope your not trying to say the So Con is not better than the Big Sky.

SIU is not in the SoCon. xsmiley_wix The difference between Montana and San Diego is history. Two national championships, 3 runner-up finishes and 14 straight playoff appearances have put Montana in the benefit of the doubt catagory. The nation knows that Montana can compete on a national level year in and year out. We can't say that about USD so they have to almost put together a SUU schedule to prove that they should be included.

[CharlestonAppFan]

But at some level you HAD to know it would turn into that xnonox xlolx xsmiley_wix

Never did I think that xsmiley_wix :D xlolx xlolx

[AZGrizFan]

I hope your not trying to say the So Con is not better than the Big Sky.

My point is: BASED ON WHAT???

ASU's victory over Michigan?


That's IT???

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[skinny_uncle]

Damn can't find an icon for drooling... :D
Take your pick:

http://bestsmileys.com/drooling/1.gif

http://bestsmileys.com/drooling/2.gif

http://bestsmileys.com/drooling/3.gif

http://bestsmileys.com/drooling/4.gif

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

My point is: BASED ON WHAT???

ASU's victory over Michigan?


That's IT???

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

YES AZGRIZ...that makes the SoCon GOD OF THE FCS

[Grizaholic17]

WOW! This thread has been jacked. Montana and San Diego are on completely different levels. Montana has been a power in the FCS for 14 years...USD hasn't. Respect is given where respect is deserved (in exception to the people of good 'ol AGS)

[Pattycakes]

sos shouldn't even be that big of a deal in fcs. that's why there is playoffs.

[CharlestonAppFan]

sos shouldn't even be that big of a deal in fcs. that's why there is playoffs.

where is GoToreros when you need him? xlolx Actually it does matter to a certain extent, but that's another discussion. Ask San Diego fans or Albany fans or Drake fans or Dayton fans or......

[GrizzlyEdd]

I agree with the Montana fans here. Once a team schedules a football schedule, it is impossible to predict how strong that schedule will actually turn out to be at the end of the season that it is actually played. Montana and McNeese both could not have predicted that their own conference members would not win many or any out of conference games. We all have to schedule at least one year in advance (preferably more than one year in advance) and no matter what the record of the team(s) is at the time you set up your schedule, you cannot know how good or bad those teams will be one or more years in the future.

All teams and conferences have years where they did not perform up to expectations, for any variety of reasons, and conferences have the same problem at times.

The final analysis of how deserving a playoff team is will not be ascertained until after the playoffs and even then we all know that anything can happen on "ANY GIVEN SATURDAY."

I always have liked McNeese fans, even when they beat the isht out of the Griz as they have in the past....xnodx Also some damn nice folks I have met here in Missoula when they come up...xnodx

[Pattycakes]

well if it matters SO much then why don't they just make a poll based on record and sos and pick the top two teams to play the national championship while everyone else sits at home. oh wait they already do that in fbs and that seems to be working

[HaveFunKc]

Why SIU? Their OOC schedule is Hampton (6-4 in mighty MEAC), SUU (0-10), Quincy (WHO?), and Arkansas-Pine Bluff (3-7 in mighty SWAC). Other than beating mighty Northern Illinois, just Gateway teams. And other than Northern Iowa, there's no world-beaters in the Gateway either. And other than ASU's win over Michigan, there's no signature OOC win in the Southern conference either to be able to say "this conference is so much better than the Big Sky." Just a mixed bag of victories over each other and some weak sisters of the poor.

Sorry, just don't see it. :)

Hmmm... Is this another way of saying our beloved FCS is starting to act like the moneymongers of BCS and scheduling 'cupcakes' for OOC games (like Lenoir-Rhyne, Ft. Lewis, Quincy) just to pad the wins column to make the playoffs??? xconfusedx
Which in turn, does this add credence to SOS rankings because scheduling of OOC games is somewhat selective (AD's choose not to schedule tougher OOC games)??? xeekx

[GreatAppSt]

Montana = Being Treated As This Year's San Diego?

Mamma say, if da shue fits.xthumbsupx

[james_lawfirm]

sos shouldn't even be that big of a deal in fcs. that's why there is playoffs.

It certainly should not count when your team has a low SOS. xrolleyesx

[appstate38]

YES AZGRIZ...that makes the SoCon GOD OF THE FCS



It's about time you recognized the Superior nature of the SoCon....xbowx xbowx xbowx

Now kneel and kiss the ring!!!xlolx xrotatehx xlolx xrotatehx xlolx

[skinny_uncle]

Hmmm... Is this another way of saying our beloved FCS is starting to act like the moneymongers of BCS and scheduling 'cupcakes' for OOC games (like Lenoir-Rhyne, Ft. Lewis, Quincy) just to pad the wins column to make the playoffs??? xconfusedx
Which in turn, does this add credence to SOS rankings because scheduling of OOC games is somewhat selective (AD's choose not to schedule tougher OOC games)??? xeekx

Beating a Fort Lewis, etc. does not help you get in the playoffs. Only D1 wins help you with that. It's just a way to get another home game for your fans. Without Quincy, SIU would only have had four home games this year. Fortunately for us, the Gateway is adding a couple of teams next year whch should help with our scheduling problems.

[JALMOND]

To answer your original question "does this argument about Montana's SOS hold any water into the seeding conversations this year." Yes, it should.

As for your second question above. Yes, I would expect the same type of conversation if UNI or ASU had a weak SOS and wanted a seed.

Earlier you mentioned SD and how they were ignored due to their SOS. The standards should apply to all. Montana is in the playoffs due to AQ and record. Should they be seeded? My vote is no. SIU and ASU deserve a seeding for their SOS and records.

There is no way anyone can say that Montana's situation and San Diego's situation are in any way the same. Last year, the Big Sky sent two teams to the playoffs (should have been three) and both won the first round. How many did San Diego's conference (the Pioneer) send? Check the record of Big Sky conference foes the last few years and you'll see this conference, the one that has been perceived all year as "weak", has been pretty damn successful in the playoffs. To make any assessment that this year's Montana team is even remotely similar to San Diego last year (or Yale this year) is absolutely ridiculous. The conference as a whole is a pretty strong conference, and for a team like Montana to go through it undefeated (oops, not yet, a tough game this week at Montana State), shows how tough the Griz are at this point.

Last year Portland State had the highes SOS rating in all of FCS, reached seven DI wins, had a GPI rating of 10 in the final poll and still stayed home. Based on that, any thoughts that SOS plays any part in seedings or at larges is equally ridiculous. If SOS played such a big role as we all think it does, PSU would have been a shoo-in last year for the playoffs.

[FCS Go!]

There is no way anyone can say that Montana's situation and San Diego's situation are in any way the same. Last year, the Big Sky sent two teams to the playoffs (should have been three) and both won the first round. How many did San Diego's conference (the Pioneer) send? Check the record of Big Sky conference foes the last few years and you'll see this conference, the one that has been perceived all year as "weak", has been pretty damn successful in the playoffs. To make any assessment that this year's Montana team is even remotely similar to San Diego last year (or Yale this year) is absolutely ridiculous. The conference as a whole is a pretty strong conference, and for a team like Montana to go through it undefeated (oops, not yet, a tough game this week at Montana State), shows how tough the Griz are at this point.

Last year Portland State had the highes SOS rating in all of FCS, reached seven DI wins, had a GPI rating of 10 in the final poll and still stayed home. Based on that, any thoughts that SOS plays any part in seedings or at larges is equally ridiculous. If SOS played such a big role as we all think it does, PSU would have been a shoo-in last year for the playoffs.

Portland St should have been in the playoffs last year xsmhx .

[Appaholic]

I second that motion xlolx xsmiley_wix xthumbsupx

There are four things I see come up in almost every thread

1. Montana's over-rated and has a weak SOS
2. The Big Sky is weak
3. Montana doesn't go on the road
4. APP STATE BEAT MICHIGAN AND NOTHING ELSE MATTERS (although I will admit this has FINALLY tapered off)

Figured I mention them all and get 'em out of the way lol

Dont forget....

5. Is NDSU the best FCS team to not be in the playoffs or just the best FCS team period?

[Appaholic]

My point is: BASED ON WHAT???

ASU's victory over Michigan?


That's IT???

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

It's a better argument than one team's unabated dominance of the same conference since '93......that tells me two things:

1- Montana has a good program
2- BSC also-rans ain't so tough if not just one, but NO ONE, can unseat the same team from 14 years of winning the AQ.......

[skinny_uncle]

It's a better argument than one team's unabated dominance of the same conference since '93......that tells me two things:

1- Montana has a good program
2- BSC also-rans ain't so tough if not just one, but NO ONE, can unseat the same team from 14 years of winning the AQ.......
14 years is an incredible run in any league. Got to give the Griz credit for that. It matches what the Braves did in the National League East.

[CopperCat]

Montana didn't play JV high school teams for half of its schedule.....

[Appaholic]

14 years is an incredible run in any league. Got to give the Griz credit for that. It matches what the Braves did in the National League East.

I agree.....I'm not trying to smack the Griz, but don't discount a win over Michigan when your conference cannot produce anything close to that accomplishment......

[AppStateold299]

My point is: BASED ON WHAT???

ASU's victory over Michigan?


That's IT???

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

The SoCon is better than the BigSky and I think once again we like all fcs teams do will prove it on the field. Our teams did by beating each other up in the SoCon this year. I'm so glad that you won your cupcake division for 14 years in a row. There is no way of doing that in the SoCon because we have so many teams that are at least decent and trying to prove they are improving. So no I am not just going off the ASU victory over Michigan I am going off of a SoCon team seeming to be in the Championship every year. I am going off of multiple teams being ranked year in and year out. The only reason they drop in the rankings is because another SoCon team.