SIU or App St, that is the question

[HofstraFB]

SME did their brackets for probably their last time before the selections. The have the same teams in but Ray has SIU the #4 and Ralph has ASU as the #4. Each have EIU getting the last spot.
Brackets (http://www.smebroadcasting.com/fcsbrackets.html)

I still think UMass has a chance for the seed if they win the conference this week.

[Sam Adams]

Gateway will not get two seeds. So it will either be UMass, Richmond, or App State. Most likely it will be App State or UMass.

[Khan4Cats]

Interesting that the last team in is not being sent to the #1 seed, especially considering they are fairly close geographically. I still think it will be a battle of Panthers (Blue vs Purple) in round 1 of the playoffs.

[bostonspider]

Gateway will not get two seeds. So it will either be UMass, Richmond, or App State. Most likely it will be App State or UMass.

Why would UMass be considered more worthy of a seed than UR? I can see ASU, but not UMass. What have they done to seem more deserving?

[Black Saturday]

Why would UMass be considered more worthy of a seed than UR? I can see ASU, but not UMass. What have they done to seem more deserving?

FWIW UMass' AD is chair of the committee so regardless don't sell UMass short of a seed. Politics.

[appfan2008]

I agree that SIU will probably not be the second seed from the gateway especially with how strong the socon and caa are this year... i say asu has the upper hand especially due to attendance and notoriaty

[bluehenbillk]

Does anyone else see an issue of AppState getting a seed when they didn't even win their league?? I know SIU didn't either but UNI has locked a seed already.

[The Moody1]

Does anyone else see an issue of AppState getting a seed when they didn't even win their league?? I know SIU didn't either but UNI has locked a seed already.

If we beat UTC on Saturday we will be the 2007 Southern Conference Co- Champion.

[james_lawfirm]

Does anyone else see an issue of AppState getting a seed when they didn't even win their league?? I know SIU didn't either but UNI has locked a seed already.

Actually, with a win vs. Chatty, ASU will be co-champs of the SoCon w/ Wofford. It just won't have an AQ.

And, FWIW, just prior to the games last Saturday, it was mathematically possible for there to be a 7-way tie for 1st place in the SoCon w/ everyone but Western at 4-3. Glad that did not happen, but it was a possibility.

[AlphaSigMD]

If we beat UTC on Saturday we will be the 2007 Southern Conference Co- Champion.

True. Just because we didn't get the autobid doesn't take away the championship. The last two years were great with ASU being the outright champion, but Co-championships happen from time to time. 2007 Wofford/ASU. Furman/GSU back in 2004 and both got seeds. Also, back in 1999 (when i was just a freshman...those were the days) ASU/Furman/GSU all split the title. ASU got the Autobid that year via their win over GSU, but GSU got a seed and won the national championship.

I predict that this year, wofford gets the Autobid, and ASU gets a seed and the national championship.

[Saluki_man]

Gateway will not get two seeds. So it will either be UMass, Richmond, or App State. Most likely it will be App State or UMass.

The committee has given a conference two seeds in the past (I belive someone said 2002 with the SoCon), so it is not unpresidented to think it can't happen again this year. I don't think App State deserves it since the lost to both Wofford on the road and GSU at home. UMass has a case, but they also have an bad loss (reguardless of weather). Richmond also has a bad loss. SIU doesn't have a bad loss, their loss was by 6 at #1 UNI.

[tralfangar]

Either way, assuming we beat UTC this Saturday, there will be someone sorely disappointed come seeding time.

[GannonFan]

The committee has given a conference two seeds in the past (I belive someone said 2002 with the SoCon), so it is not unpresidented to think it can't happen again this year. I don't think App State deserves it since the lost to both Wofford on the road and GSU at home. UMass has a case, but they also have an bad loss (reguardless of weather). Richmond also has a bad loss. SIU doesn't have a bad loss, their loss was by 6 at #1 UNI.

The SoCon's gotten two of the top 4 seeds at least 3 times and the A10 got two of the top 4 seeds once - all in the past 10 years. So it's happened 40% of the time over the past decade so I don't see where all of a sudden the committee has come up with some rule that isn't written down anywhere saying that a conference can't have two seeds. If Appy St was 10-1, they would surely get a seed, but they are 9-2 and IMO, dependent on SIU losing in order to get the last seed.

Oh, and the geography thing is silly too - Boone isn't any easier to get to than Carbondale is - Appy St being an "eastern" school won't have any bearing on the seeding either. Teams will have to travel significantly to get to either Appy St or SIU.

[The Moody1]

I do not see how an App fan can call themselves co-champ. You lost to the team that you are tied with. I think it is safe to say they deserve it more.

Not a knock, but just because you have the same conference record shouldn't mean you are thought of as champion when you lost to the other team.

Just my thoughts on it. xsmiley_wix

That is the way it works in the SoCon. App didn't make the rules we just follow them.

[Applete]

Either way App has been ranked higher for most if not all of the season than Wofford. So, I'll take an atlarge bid with a possible seed over an AQ with no chance of a seed.

[appfan2008]

i like ralph's brackets bc he gave us a seed!

[ASUdrummer]

I do not see how an App fan can call themselves co-champ. You lost to the team that you are tied with. I think it is safe to say they deserve it more.

Not a knock, but just because you have the same conference record shouldn't mean you are thought of as champion when you lost to the other team.

Just my thoughts on it. xsmiley_wix

It's how the conference works. They beat us and lost to Elon. We lost to them but beat Elon. We both lost to GA Southern. It's the whole "Any Given Saturday" thing...It just shows how competitive the conference is.

[Black Saturday]

I do not see how an App fan can call themselves co-champ. You lost to the team that you are tied with. I think it is safe to say they deserve it more.

Not a knock, but just because you have the same conference record shouldn't mean you are thought of as champion when you lost to the other team.

Just my thoughts on it. xsmiley_wix

Along those lines of thinking, how the heck can any CAA team be called champion when all teams don't play one another and there is no championship game?xconfusedx

Maybe if they did all pair up, there would be some of this year's 3 loss teams with 4-5 losses and no argument who is gonna be invited to the playoffs from the CAA?

[appfan2008]

Along those lines of thinking, how the heck can any CAA team be called champion when all teams don't play one another and there is no championship game?xconfusedx

Maybe if they did all pair up, there would be some of this year's 3 loss teams with 4-5 losses and no argument who is gonna be invited to the playoffs from the CAA?

hence the fact i love the socon and every other round robin football conference... that is the only way to go...

[WVAPPmountaineer]

I don't think App State deserves it since the lost to both Wofford on the road and GSU at home.

What most that make this argument keep forgetting is that APP DID beat the #5 FBS team in the country who has a real shot at being Big 10 champs and playing in the Rose Bowl - No One in FCS has EVER accomplished such a feat and that overrides any lose they have - therefore in my opinion and hopefully the committee if APP wins on Saturday they are theoretically a 10-1 team - WITH A SEED

[gsueaglefan]

If we beat UTC on Saturday we will be the 2007 Southern Conference Co- Champion.

That is all good and well except for the loss to Wofford giving them the auto bid. App State did not win league, and does not deserve a seed.

[gsueaglefan]

What most that make this argument keep forgetting is that APP DID beat the #5 FBS team in the country who has a real shot at being Big 10 champs and playing in the Rose Bowl - No One in FCS has EVER accomplished such a feat and that overrides any lose they have - therefore in my opinion and hopefully the committee if APP wins on Saturday they are theoretically a 10-1 team - WITH A SEED


Oh yes the trump argument to beat all arguments....we beat michigan.....xbowx

[gsueaglefan]

xhomerx
What most that make this argument keep forgetting is that APP DID beat the #5 FBS team in the country who has a real shot at being Big 10 champs and playing in the Rose Bowl - No One in FCS has EVER accomplished such a feat and that overrides any lose they have - therefore in my opinion and hopefully the committee if APP wins on Saturday they are theoretically a 10-1 team - WITH A SEED

[Woof]

I am still surpised ASU is ranked so highly. The win against Michigan was a great win, but why should they be ranked ahead of teams that have beaten them soundly? They are an explosive team, but have not done much since Michigan (unless scoring 80 points against WCU is somehow impressive?) The whole concept of co-Champs is dubious, too. If it comes to two teams, they should crown the one with the head to head advantage.

[GGASU]

I do not see how an App fan can call themselves co-champ. You lost to the team that you are tied with. I think it is safe to say they deserve it more.

Not a knock, but just because you have the same conference record shouldn't mean you are thought of as champion when you lost to the other team.

Just my thoughts on it. xsmiley_wix

How many conferences have this rule?

I know that I gave some Coastal Carolina fans grief about calling themselves the co-champs in the same situation.

I agree with you..if two teams have the same conference record, the winner of the head to head should be the conference champs. Co-champs makes no sense in that situation.

[GannonFan]

What most that make this argument keep forgetting is that APP DID beat the #5 FBS team in the country who has a real shot at being Big 10 champs and playing in the Rose Bowl - No One in FCS has EVER accomplished such a feat and that overrides any lose they have - therefore in my opinion and hopefully the committee if APP wins on Saturday they are theoretically a 10-1 team - WITH A SEED

Huh???? The Michigan win was so good (hey, I think it was a great win, but...) that now not only should it be treated like a win, but you're advocating that it should count as two wins and should act as an eraser to one of your two losses????? And you wonder why people call you a homer! xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[JayJ79]

How many conferences have this rule?

I know that I gave some Coastal Carolina fans grief about calling themselves the co-champs in the same situation.

I agree with you..if two teams have the same conference record, the winner of the head to head should be the conference champs. Co-champs makes no sense in that situation.

I might have to research that. I would bet that most conferences call any teams finishing with the same top conference record "co-champs".

I know the Gateway and the SoCon do. I'll have to look into the official procedures of other conferences (both FCS and FBS)

[GannonFan]

I might have to research that. I would bet that most conferences call any teams finishing with the same top conference record "co-champs".

I know the Gateway and the SoCon do. I'll have to look into the official procedures of other conferences (both FCS and FBS)

The CAA does call them co-champs as well.

[mountaineertider]

I am still surpised ASU is ranked so highly. The win against Michigan was a great win, but why should they be ranked ahead of teams that have beaten them soundly? They are an explosive team, but have not done much since Michigan (unless scoring 80 points against WCU is somehow impressive?) The whole concept of co-Champs is dubious, too. If it comes to two teams, they should crown the one with the head to head advantage.

Oh yeah that 11 point loss and that 3 point loss were really sound shalackings by Wofford and GSU. I guess that means Elon and Georgia Southern really did a number on Wofford, if we play that way.

It's all about who's hot when it seems like with these seeds, and though the Terriers beat UT-C soundly, they struggled with WCU the week before a GSU loss.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

For GannonFan
Huh???? The Michigan win was so good (hey, I think it was a great win, but...) that now not only should it be treated like a win, but you're advocating that it should count as two wins and should act as an eraser to one of your two losses????? And you wonder why people call you a homer!


Hey, I never said I was impartial and unlike some of the posters I do read all of yours as I feel you are well informed - Tell me this - What FCS team in the country that had beaten #5 Michigan in front of 107,000 WOULD NOT BE USING THAT ACCOMPLISHMENT at this point in the season??? - I believe Delaware fans would and certainly GSU fans would -
And for WOOF - who beat ASU soundly??? - it was a 4 point game in the last minute at Wofford with Armanti not playing - Wofford deserved to win that game - but "beaten soundly"
And for GSUeaglefan - Now who was it you guys beat in the FBS? - The SoCon makes the rules regarding who is considered champion and I'm sure if you and Elon had ended up tied for first you nor the Eagle team would be saying we don't deserve to be called SoCon champions - Huh?

[skinny_uncle]

Ask me Saturday after the games.
xeyebrowx

[GannonFan]

For GannonFan

Hey, I never said I was impartial and unlike some of the posters I do read all of yours as I feel you are well informed - Tell me this - What FCS team in the country that had beaten #5 Michigan in front of 107,000 WOULD NOT BE USING THAT ACCOMPLISHMENT at this point in the season??? - I believe Delaware fans would and certainly GSU fans would -
And for WOOF - who beat ASU soundly??? - it was a 4 point game in the last minute at Wofford with Armanti not playing - Wofford deserved to win that game - but "beaten soundly"
And for GSUeaglefan - Now who was it you guys beat in the FBS? - The SoCon makes the rules regarding who is considered champion and I'm sure if you and Elon had ended up tied for first you nor the Eagle team would be saying we don't deserve to be called SoCon champions - Huh?

Hey, don't get me wrong, I think beating Michigan was a huge accomplishment. However, you still have to look at the whole body of work, and the losses to Wofford and to Georgia Southern (the last one coming at home and while Edwards was injured I don't think he plays defense so you can't just fall on that being the reason you lost, and if GSU loses this weekend that's a loss to a non-playoff team) have to be considered as well.

SIU has an FBS win over Northern Illinois, and the only blemish on their schedule is a 6 point road loss to #1 UNI where SIU had two chances in the last 5 minutes to win the game.

If Appy St had one loss, the Michigan win would easily vault them ahead of SIU - but two losses, IMO, should keep you unseeded. I'd actually be pretty disappointed in the selection committee if they did put Appy St ahead of SIU - you have to respect the records (it's not like the Gateway is a weak conference) and seeing how 40% of the time over the past 10 years two team from the same conference got top 4 seeds, to use that as a reason to snub SIU would be disingenious.

[ASUG8]

I am still surpised ASU is ranked so highly. The win against Michigan was a great win, but why should they be ranked ahead of teams that have beaten them soundly? They are an explosive team, but have not done much since Michigan (unless scoring 80 points against WCU is somehow impressive?) The whole concept of co-Champs is dubious, too. If it comes to two teams, they should crown the one with the head to head advantage.

We will likely have the same record, you won the head to head, hence the autobid. Head to head is important for the autobid, but equal records we share the championship. It's happened before, and could have been much more complicated this year if not for last weekend.

[skinny_uncle]

Thank you for your support, GannonFan.
xthumbsupx

[skinny_uncle]

We will likely have the same record, you won the head to head, hence the autobid. Head to head is important for the autobid, but equal records we share the championship. It's happened before, and could have been much more complicated this year if not for last weekend.

Co-champs, no autobid. We get it already. Are you all just arguing this point to run up your post counts?
:D

[The Moody1]

That is all good and well except for the loss to Wofford giving them the auto bid. App State did not win league, and does not deserve a seed.


What part of co-champion do you not understand? Head to head does not factor in the SoCon championship. If you have identical league records you are co-champions. Maybe you should get your AD to take it up with the SoCon Commissioner.

[ASUG8]

I'll take my homer hat off briefly to say that the Michigan game was important and defined our season for us, but that was weeks ago. We've played some very intense competition and for the most part have come out successful from it, even keeping it close in our losses. I don't blame Armanti's injuries on our losses - Elder won every game he started this year. Our defense has appeared to be suspect this season, but we've also gone against very high powered offenses. Taking a look at SoCon scores this season, you'd think no team had a defense at all. I think that when the playoffs come, we'll find that the SoCon's defenses are not as porous as we may believe, but rather we have some extremely potent offensive weapons in the guise of the WU backfield/QB, Jayson Foster, and Armanti/Richardson. I'd like for the rest of the country to get a chance to see what some of these programs bring to the table - and I really hope that GSU gets the win so Foster can rain down the pain on some unsuspecting OOC defenses.
"Homer hat back on".

[Khan4Cats]

Does anyone else see an issue of AppState getting a seed when they didn't even win their league?? I know SIU didn't either but UNI has locked a seed already.

Hasn't stopped the committee in the past. 2005, Texas State was co-champs but did not get the auto-bid. They still were awarded the 4 seed. Could very well happen again this year.

[james_lawfirm]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HH!!!

WHEN CAN WE JUST PLAY FOOTBALL?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HH!!!

Ptooie!

[Khan4Cats]

I might have to research that. I would bet that most conferences call any teams finishing with the same top conference record "co-champs".

I know the Gateway and the SoCon do. I'll have to look into the official procedures of other conferences (both FCS and FBS)

I think a lot of conferences have this in place. I know Youngstown State is happy to note their 2005 Gateway Conference title, even though they didn't even make the playoffs.xrolleyesx

[GannonFan]

Hasn't stopped the committee in the past. 2005, Texas State was co-champs but did not get the auto-bid. They still were awarded the 4 seed. Could very well happen again this year.


Yeah, but using the Southland as an example is a bit different - weren't there only 6-7 teams in the Southland that year? So with only 5-6 conference games you can get weird results like that. Half of the schedule was OOC games for them.

[GannonFan]

Thank you for your support, GannonFan.
xthumbsupx

No sweat - although you may want to be wary about what you want - getting the #4 seed means being put in the same side of the bracket as UNI, meaning if both win out, SIU or Appy would be in Cedar Falls for the semis - frankly, I'd rather be unseeded and on the other side of the bracket from UNI and not have to worry about them until Chatty and no dome.

[Khan4Cats]

Yeah, but using the Southland as an example is a bit different - weren't there only 6-7 teams in the Southland that year? So with only 5-6 conference games you can get weird results like that. Half of the schedule was OOC games for them.

Okay, same year. Eastern Washington wins the Big Sky auto-bid, gets sent on the road to UNI. Montana stays home, surprise, surprise. I don't recall if they were seeded though.

[Khan4Cats]

Yeah, but using the Southland as an example is a bit different - weren't there only 6-7 teams in the Southland that year? So with only 5-6 conference games you can get weird results like that. Half of the schedule was OOC games for them.

Okay, same year. Eastern Washington wins the Big Sky auto-bid, gets sent on the road to UNI. Montana stays home, surprise, surprise. I don't recall if they were seeded though.

The point is taht the committee has done both things in the past:

A) give a seed to a conference co-champ that was n ot the auto-bid.

B) give multiple seeds to one conference.

Not sure which precedent will take priority this year. But it may likely mean the difference in who gets to host the other in round 2.

[skinny_uncle]

No sweat - although you may want to be wary about what you want - getting the #4 seed means being put in the same side of the bracket as UNI, meaning if both win out, SIU or Appy would be in Cedar Falls for the semis - frankly, I'd rather be unseeded and on the other side of the bracket from UNI and not have to worry about them until Chatty and no dome.
What I want is for Montana and Mcneese to get beat on Saturday so we can move up, but I ain't holding my breath.
xsmiley_wix

[Woof]

[QUOTE=WVAPPmountaineer;740509]For GannonFan


And for WOOF - who beat ASU soundly??? - it was a 4 point game in the last minute at Wofford with Armanti not playing - Wofford deserved to win that game - but "beaten soundly"


Hmm...guess that depends on your vantage point....our lead was 11 for most of the 2nd half with both teams essentially trading scores. Edwards was playing until he was knocked out of the game. We outgained you on O and held Payton nominee Richardson to 27 yds. That to me is sound W over a very good team....My beef is more with the pollsters, how in good conscience does ASU stay ahead of us after that ? We will now likely draw the No. 2 or 3 seed in the first round at their place and you stand a decent chance to play at home for a while...just doesn't seem equitable.

[Saint3333]

My beef is more with the pollsters, how in good conscience does ASU stay ahead of us after that ? We will now likely draw the No. 2 or 3 seed in the first round at their place and you stand a decent chance to play at home for a while...just doesn't seem equitable.

Serioiusly... it's quite simple ASU is 8-2 with a win over an FBS program and WC is 8-3. 8-3 with an average attendance of 7K means you're on the road.

Just because you beat a team (I wouldn't say soundly beat them either) doesn't mean you should be ranked ahead of them. There are plenty of examples of these in the FCS and FBS polls...

Hopefully we'll see WC in Boone in a couple weeks.

[GannonFan]

Serioiusly... it's quite simple ASU is 8-2 with a win over an FBS program and WC is 8-3. 8-3 with an average attendance of 7K means you're on the road.

Just because you beat a team (I wouldn't say soundly beat them either) doesn't mean you should be ranked ahead of them. There are plenty of examples of these in the FCS and FBS polls...

Hopefully we'll see WC in Boone in a couple weeks.

I agree - if Wofford was 9-2 they'd have an argument, but just as SIU should get the nod over Appy St due to one less loss so should Appy St over Wofford. The record is kinda important. xthumbsupx

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Woof please note my exact quote
Wofford deserved to win that game ---
I have said that since that evening and I have never made excuses - Armanti not playing in the second half means that the most dangerous duel-threat QB in the country (my opinion) wasn't in the game - that's a fact not an excuse - it doesn't mean APP would have won with him in there - You did see what he did to Michigan in the last minute of the game with APP trailing, if could have happened at Wofford --- Again, all that being said, Wofford outplayed APP that day and DESERVED to win - What I don't understand is your argument that Wofford should be ranked higher than ASU - Wofford has 3 losses and at this point we have 2 --- end of story ---

[The Moody1]

[QUOTE=WVAPPmountaineer;740509]For GannonFan


And for WOOF - who beat ASU soundly??? - it was a 4 point game in the last minute at Wofford with Armanti not playing - Wofford deserved to win that game - but "beaten soundly"


Hmm...guess that depends on your vantage point....our lead was 11 for most of the 2nd half with both teams essentially trading scores. Edwards was playing until he was knocked out of the game. We outgained you on O and held Payton nominee Richardson to 27 yds. That to me is sound W over a very good team....My beef is more with the pollsters, how in good conscience does ASU stay ahead of us after that ? We will now likely draw the No. 2 or 3 seed in the first round at their place and you stand a decent chance to play at home for a while...just doesn't seem equitable.

xbawlingx xbawlingx xbawlingx xbawlingx xbawlingx xbawlingx xbawlingx xbawlingx

[WVAPPmountaineer]

For GannonFan - (or anyone else for that matter) - OK, here's a question for you - If APP wins Sat and What if McNeese loses Saturday - What are you seeds? - If Montana loses? - If both Montana and McNeese lose? - I think UNI is #1 and deservedly so and will win easily on Sat --- I also believe SIU will beat Hampton ---

[ASUSoCon]

By Woofy's arguement, then Elon should be ranked higher than the Lap Dogs because of their 11-point win. Head to head doesn't necessarily mean that much. It's the full body of work.

Oh........AND WE BEAT MICHIGAN! ;)

[Saint3333]

IMO the seeding goes as follows:
1. UNI
2. McNeese
3. Montana
4. SIU
5. ASU
6. Richmond

2 & 3 are interchangable, but Montana gets the 2 seed due to attendance. Note that I personally have SIU at the 4 spot, but I would not be shocked for ASU to get the 4 seed to avoid seeded two Gateway teams and attendance does play a part. I'm well aware that there are examples of this occurring before, but I'm certain there are cases where 2 teams from a conference should have been seeded and were not in favor of seeding a team from another conference.

The only team that can lose and potentially get a seed, again IMO is UNI. All others would move up if someone losses. I'm a Montana St. fan on Saturday.xthumbsupx

-----Disclaimer, UTC on Saturday is by no means a guarenteed win i.e. 1994 VMI-----

[Houndawg]

No sweat - although you may want to be wary about what you want - getting the #4 seed means being put in the same side of the bracket as UNI, meaning if both win out, SIU or Appy would be in Cedar Falls for the semis - frankly, I'd rather be unseeded and on the other side of the bracket from UNI and not have to worry about them until Chatty and no dome.

I'd rather be on the other side of the bracket from UNI too, but that said, I don't think the dome is an issue if we play ther again. We know we're good enough to win there and I think their home advantage would be negated by our revenge motive.

[Ronin]

Why would UMass be considered more worthy of a seed than UR? I can see ASU, but not UMass. What have they done to seem more deserving?

Agreed.

I think both ASU and SIU are both deserving with SIU seeded higher. However, we would have to look at those that are "seeded" to see if they should be bumped. ;)

[ASUMountaineer]

True. Just because we didn't get the autobid doesn't take away the championship. The last two years were great with ASU being the outright champion, but Co-championships happen from time to time. 2007 Wofford/ASU. Furman/GSU back in 2004 and both got seeds. Also, back in 1999 (when i was just a freshman...those were the days) ASU/Furman/GSU all split the title. ASU got the Autobid that year via their win over GSU, but GSU got a seed and won the national championship.

I predict that this year, wofford gets the Autobid, and ASU gets a seed and the national championship.

I too was a freshman in 1999 and AlphaSigMD, I like your prediction...knew there was a reason I put up with your crap in college.

[siugrad99]

Gannon is correct. It seems Appy fans are using their great victory over Michigan to explain their 2 losses to FCS teams. The Michigan win was awesome, but you lost twice and once @ Home. You can't use the Michigan win to somehow overlook your 2 hiccups @ your regular FCS level.

[74AppState]

In my ASU biased opinion, SOS counts and pushes ASU over SIU.
An ASU win over #5 Michigan trumps an SIU win over a weak NIU--the MAC is horrible this year.
The Mountaineers seem to be peaking at the right time, as demonstrated by a record-breaking 79-35 victory over Western Carolina last Saturday in the battle for the Old Mountain Jug. With that seminal win over Michigan to start the season, its track record as the two-time defending national champion and SoCon co-champion on its resume, Appalachian State will be a favorite for a seed with one more win.

[PaladinFan]

FWIW UMass' AD is chair of the committee so regardless don't sell UMass short of a seed. Politics.

App would have experience with this a la 2005.

[bench]

Looking at the schedules and results in the Gateway, I'm getting a strong Big Ten vibe - two teams that outclass the rest of the league, very few games played outside the upper Midwest, and occasionally getting exposed when they have to play a top team from outside their ranks, like the SEC.

How do you accurately judge a league - especially its top contenders - when they haven't played anyone of note outside their own conference? The resume games for UNI are Iowa St. and and SIU. The resume game for SIU is, well, they lost a close game to UNI. I remember watching a very good UNI team two years ago, so I don't doubt both UNI and SIU are legit, but I want to see how they fare against the CAA and SoCon this year in the playoffs before I crown them.

[crunifan]

Looking at the schedules and results in the Gateway, I'm getting a strong Big Ten vibe - two teams that outclass the rest of the league, very few games played outside the upper Midwest, and occasionally getting exposed when they have to play a top team from outside their ranks, like the SEC.

How do you accurately judge a league - especially its top contenders - when they haven't played anyone of note outside their own conference? The resume games for UNI are Iowa St. and and SIU. The resume game for SIU is, well, they lost a close game to UNI. I remember watching a very good UNI team two years ago, so I don't doubt both UNI and SIU are legit, but I want to see how they fare against the CAA and SoCon this year in the playoffs before I crown them.

Remember that Western Illinois and Youngstown State are good teams.

Western Illinois has lost to UNI, SIU, Youngstown State, North Dakota State, and Illinois

Youngstown State has lost to UNI, SIU, Illinois State, and Ohio State

These two teams had to face everyone in the Gateway. Certain CAA teams got lucky and didn't have to face some of the best in the conference.

[JayJ79]

I remember watching a very good UNI team two years ago, so I don't doubt both UNI and SIU are legit, but I want to see how they fare against the CAA and SoCon this year in the playoffs before I crown them.

Which is exactly the reason why FCS is awesome. They do play it out on the field. As opposed to letting polls and computers decide who will be the top 2 teams. xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

[BDKJMU]

The committee has given a conference two seeds in the past (I belive someone said 2002 with the SoCon), so it is not unpresidented to think it can't happen again this year. I don't think App State deserves it since the lost to both Wofford on the road and GSU at home. UMass has a case, but they also have an bad loss (reguardless of weather). Richmond also has a bad loss. SIU doesn't have a bad loss, their loss was by 6 at #1 UNI.

I've posted this before:

"Its happened 6 times since the 4 was expanded to 16 in 86'
88' #2 GSU, #4 Furman
89' #1 GSU, #2 Furman
97' #1 Villanova & #3 UD (seeded all 16)
99' #2 GSU, #4 ASU (seeded all 16)
01' #2 GSU, #3 Furman
04' #2 Furman, #4 GSU"

[Houndawg]

Looking at the schedules and results in the Gateway, I'm getting a strong Big Ten vibe - two teams that outclass the rest of the league, very few games played outside the upper Midwest, and occasionally getting exposed when they have to play a top team from outside their ranks, like the SEC.

How do you accurately judge a league - especially its top contenders - when they haven't played anyone of note outside their own conference? The resume games for UNI are Iowa St. and and SIU. The resume game for SIU is, well, they lost a close game to UNI. I remember watching a very good UNI team two years ago, so I don't doubt both UNI and SIU are legit, but I want to see how they fare against the CAA and SoCon this year in the playoffs before I crown them.

So YSU being #10 when we beat them and WIU being #19 when we beat them don't count? Either could move to your league and be very competitive, IMO. I think you'ns have had a little exposure of your own this year. Speaking of exposure, Michigan was badly exposed last year as was Ohio State; both are overrated this year and will be exposed (again) in their bowl games. They're slow.

[Houndawg]

In my ASU biased opinion, SOS counts and pushes ASU over SIU.
An ASU win over #5 Michigan trumps an SIU win over a weak NIU--the MAC is horrible this year.
The Mountaineers seem to be peaking at the right time, as demonstrated by a record-breaking 79-35 victory over Western Carolina last Saturday in the battle for the Old Mountain Jug. With that seminal win over Michigan to start the season, its track record as the two-time defending national champion and SoCon co-champion on its resume, Appalachian State will be a favorite for a seed with one more win.

Your win over Western Carolina is about as record-breaking as SIU's 72-10 win over Indiana State. Frankly, I think giving up 5 TDs to Western carolina is cause for concern.

[appst97]

App would have experience with this a la 2005.

Charlie Cobb wasn't the chair in 2005, was he?

[bench]

So YSU being #10 when we beat them and WIU being #19 when we beat them don't count? Either could move to your league and be very competitive, IMO. I think you'ns have had a little exposure of your own this year. Speaking of exposure, Michigan was badly exposed last year as was Ohio State; both are overrated this year and will be exposed (again) in their bowl games. They're slow.

I think part of what leaves me undecided about the Gate is Youngstown State. My only recent link for comparison is last year's Penguins. Old, but that's all I got. I know some games even good teams don't have it, but the last time I saw the Penguins in the national semis I wasn't impressed. They were a four seed last year, and since I hadn't seen them play, I was nervous. As it turned out, there wasn't much to be worried about. From the opening kickoff the game was never in doubt. Our quickness was too much for them to handle, and ASU won easily.

It seems like YSU isn't quite as good as they were last year, but they took the top two teams to the limit. Could be just a conference opponent playing up to the level of their competition (or vice versa; believe me, I know how that works), or it could mean that there are more question marks about these two teams than their records alone would indicate.

[CamelCityAppFan]

Man, we need the playoffs to start. This is turning into "my dad can beat up your dad..."

As for seeding for my team, if we can't be 2 or 3 this year (which we can't), I'd rather be unseeded in the 2 vs. 3 bracket.

[The Moody1]

Charlie Cobb wasn't the chair in 2005, was he?


No, we didn't have anyone on the committee in '05. "The Roach" was the chair several years ago. I guess the Furple is trying to imply that we won our first championship by cheating.

[The Moody1]

Michigan was badly exposed last year as was Ohio State; both are overrated this year and will be exposed (again) in their bowl games. THEY'RE SLOW.


Much like what will happen to Gateway teams in the play-offs. Gateway = Big 10 Lite.

[CamelCityAppFan]

No, we didn't have anyone on the committee in '05. "The Roach" was the chair several years ago. I guess the Furple is trying to imply that we won our first championship by cheating.

I think Furple needs to remember that we GOT to our first championship when Elder came off the bench and scored against Furple in the semis...

[Saint3333]

Man, we need the playoffs to start. This is turning into "my dad can beat up your dad..."

As for seeding for my team, if we can't be 2 or 3 this year (which we can't), I'd rather be unseeded in the 2 vs. 3 bracket.

I agree, put ASU in the McNeese Montana bracket. I don't want to play UNI until Nooga if ASU is fortunate enough to make it that far.

My ideal Saturday would be ASU winning big and McNeese and Montana losing, if that occurs ASU could be looking a 2 seed.

[Houndawg]

I think part of what leaves me undecided about the Gate is Youngstown State. My only recent link for comparison is last year's Penguins. Old, but that's all I got. I know some games even good teams don't have it, but the last time I saw the Penguins in the national semis I wasn't impressed. They were a four seed last year, and since I hadn't seen them play, I was nervous. As it turned out, there wasn't much to be worried about. From the opening kickoff the game was never in doubt. Our quickness was too much for them to handle, and ASU won easily.

It seems like YSU isn't quite as good as they were last year, but they took the top two teams to the limit. Could be just a conference opponent playing up to the level of their competition (or vice versa; believe me, I know how that works), or it could mean that there are more question marks about these two teams than their records alone would indicate.

I think that YSU is about the same as last year, too. They're good at sticking to a game plan and keeping themselves in the game against more athletic teams. Personally I'd much rather be unseed across the bracket, too, with a shot at Montana, whom I think will be he most beatable seed in an early round. We're definetly quicker this year, especially on D, and that is a result of our last meeting with ASU. Jerry Kill first comment after that game was that we need more speed, and he went and got it. Hopefully for us you'll get the seed and a trip to the dome where Edwards will have to beat UNI with his running.

[Houndawg]

Much like what will happen to Gateway teams in the play-offs. Gateway = Big 10 Lite.

If you get the seed and make it to the dome, come back here after Johnny Gray takes you to church and tell me about how they're not quick .;) Really, I think two FCS losses, one at home, says more about Michigan being overated than it does about you, and that's not meant to be smack or detract from THE biggest 1aa upset.xpeacex

[Houndawg]

Much like what will happen to Gateway teams in the play-offs. Gateway = Big 10 Lite.

Well, I guess it's all over for the Gateway early, eh?

[CrackerRiley]

App would have experience with this a la 2005.
Still bitter, I see.. xsmiley_wix
I will admit, App did get extremely lucky with their seeding in 2005. I wasn't complaining though.

[The Moody1]

Well, I guess it's all over for the Gateway early, eh?


Glad you finally saw the light. xsmiley_wix

[bench]

Well, I guess it's all over for the Gateway early, eh?
Don't think for a second I'm counting out the Gateway teams. It's just that scheduling makes it difficult to make comparisons between their top teams and the teams they'll be facing. It's more like high school football, where teams on opposite ends of a state won't face each other until late in the playoffs.

What I'm really trying to gauge is whether I should be afraid of the Gateway/CAA/Big Sky (well, Montana anyway), or if merely respecting them is sufficient.

App is a hard team to judge right now, too. Are they the team that beat Michigan and has played well (gotten healthier) down the stretch, or are they the team that played inconsistently with key injuries after the Michigan game? They seem to be peaking, but they have played poorly at times and made dumb decisions that cost us at least one game. For the record, I'm a little sick of hearing about the Michigan game myself, and while I wouldn't give it back, stalking and finally bagging one of the big boys could have seriously derailed ASU's season. We might have been faster than they were, but the physical pounding Michigan's big guys put on App hurt them for a long time. I would rather we stopped hunting white whales for the time being, thank you very much.

[Houndawg]

Don't think for a second I'm counting out the Gateway teams. It's just that scheduling makes it difficult to make comparisons between their top teams and the teams they'll be facing. It's more like high school football, where teams on opposite ends of a state won't face each other until late in the playoffs.

What I'm really trying to gauge is whether I should be afraid of the Gateway/CAA/Big Sky (well, Montana anyway), or if merely respecting them is sufficient.

App is a hard team to judge right now, too. Are they the team that beat Michigan and has played well (gotten healthier) down the stretch, or are they the team that played inconsistently with key injuries after the Michigan game? They seem to be peaking, but they have played poorly at times and made dumb decisions that cost us at least one game. For the record, I'm a little sick of hearing about the Michigan game myself, and while I wouldn't give it back, stalking and finally bagging one of the big boys could have seriously derailed ASU's season. We might have been faster than they were, but the physical pounding Michigan's big guys put on App hurt them for a long time. I would rather we stopped hunting white whales for the time being, thank you very much.

Good point about how the UM game could be a distraction in the long run. And about peaking at the right time; imo that and injuries will be the biggest factors in the playoffs. Oh yeah, turnovers will kill you.;)

[roysboi12]

How about this: Give neither App or SIU the 4th seed and let them play in the first round in Boone (due to Appalachian's attendance) on Friday at the 1:30 ESPN game. This is the only way to settle this once and for all. xlolx

[bamamountaineer1013]

How about this: Give neither App or SIU the 4th seed and let them play in the first round in Boone (due to Appalachian's attendance) on Friday at the 1:30 ESPN game. This is the only way to settle this once and for all. xlolx


That sounds like a plan to me.

[back2back]

It has been a while since I have been back to this site, but with the [B]PLAYOFFS[B] looming and no BCS to worry about I am glad we are having this debate. Go APPS and lets play some defense this weekend!!!

[DOME]

I sense a lot of apprehension about the Gateway and read a snipit or two about our lack of scheduling in the Midwest.
UNI's Schedule:
Mankato St. W41-14 <-Ok a gimme but Coach and Luther are intimidating!
Iowa St. W24-13 <-Not the toughest FBS team but they beat Iowa the next week, who beat Illinios, who beat #1 FBS Ohio St. last week, which by the Law of Relativity makes UNI the best college football team in America.
SDSU W31-17 <-Getting Votes at the time
Drake W45-7 <- #24 in the AGS Poll
Ill St W23-13 <- #18 Didn't kill em but it was on the road
S. Ill W30-24 <- #10 Getting votes for #1
W. Ill W42-3 <- #20 Put an '!' on our year with Illinois teams
YSU W14-13 <- #11 Opened ugly but coaches made adjustments
Mizzou St W38-17 <- Nothing other than beating a conference foe
In St. W68-14 <- Starters out before halftime
SUU W 2-0 <- Showing we can get it done on Defense

I'm sure there are more impressive schedules out there, like SUU, but notice the lack of 'L' next to any score?

[FCS Go!]

I sense a lot of apprehension about the Gateway and read a snipit or two about our lack of scheduling in the Midwest.
UNI's Schedule:
Mankato St. W41-14 <-Ok a gimme but Coach and Luther are intimidating!
Iowa St. W24-13 <-Not the toughest FBS team but they beat Iowa the next week, who beat Illinios, who beat #1 FBS Ohio St. last week, which by the Law of Relativity makes UNI the best college football team in America.
SDSU W31-17 <-Getting Votes at the time
Drake W45-7 <- #24 in the AGS Poll
Ill St W23-13 <- #18 Didn't kill em but it was on the road
S. Ill W30-24 <- #10 Getting votes for #1
W. Ill W42-3 <- #20 Put an '!' on our year with Illinois teams
YSU W14-13 <- #11 Opened ugly but coaches made adjustments
Mizzou St W38-17 <- Nothing other than beating a conference foe
In St. W68-14 <- Starters out before halftime
SUU W 2-0 <- Showing we can get it done on Defense

I'm sure there are more impressive schedules out there, like SUU, but notice the lack of 'L' next to any score?

Not enough teams from the East or South to warrant any respect.xrolleyesx

[BDKJMU]

How about this: Give neither App or SIU the 4th seed and let them play in the first round in Boone (due to Appalachian's attendance) on Friday at the 1:30 ESPN game. This is the only way to settle this once and for all. xlolx

Hey, I'd like that too- that would mean JMU wouldn't have to face ASU in Boone in the 1st round. xthumbsupx Would maybe get lucky and get a home game....On the other hand, would probably get sent to UNI/Montana/McNeese.

[skinny_uncle]

How about this: Give neither App or SIU the 4th seed and let them play in the first round in Boone (due to Appalachian's attendance) on Friday at the 1:30 ESPN game. This is the only way to settle this once and for all. xlolx

I've got a better idea. Could we arrange a meeting in Chattanooga?

[Black and Gold Express]

I am still surpised ASU is ranked so highly. The win against Michigan was a great win, but why should they be ranked ahead of teams that have beaten them soundly? They are an explosive team, but have not done much since Michigan (unless scoring 80 points against WCU is somehow impressive?) The whole concept of co-Champs is dubious, too. If it comes to two teams, they should crown the one with the head to head advantage.

And here we thought Wofford people were smart...

In both games, ASU had a chance to win it in the final minutes of play. Explain to us how that is "beaten soundly"?

Wofford played possibly their best game of the season that day, and made no mistakes of consequence. And ASU did not play a very good game, with poor tackling on defense and Armanti coming back way too early (IMO) and the offense struggled until Elder took over after AE reinjured that shoulder. And it still was not until the final minute of the game that you put the nail in the coffin.

Same for GSU. They played one of their best games of the season, and we dug too deep a hole to come back fully, but as we all know we were 1 yard away from kicking a game-tying field goal at the gun.

Credit goes to Wofford and GSU for winning both games. But in no was was ASU "beaten soundly" in either.

[ERASU2113]

Hey, I'd like that too- that would mean JMU wouldn't have to face ASU in Boone in the 1st round. xthumbsupx Would maybe get lucky and get a home game....On the other hand, would probably get sent to UNI/Montana/McNeese.


I had heard a rumor that JMU might be making a first round trip to Boone for a late night game Friday on ESPN.......that was about a week ago. Who knows anymore though

[CrackerRiley]

but as we all know we were 1 yard away from kicking a game-tying field goal at the gun.
No, even closer. A block in the back away from winning... xnonono2x

[salukidean]

If SIU wins this weekend, I'll be shocked and disappointed if the committee doesn't reward the Dawgs with a #4 seed.

With our only loss being a game decided by just 6 yards to the #1 team in the country on the road, I find it hard for anyone to rationalize that there are 3 others teams that could could play the top seeded Panthers any closer.

Besides, I don't think the committee wants an all Gateway championship in 'Nooga and that would be the likely result of placing SIU and UNI on opposite sides of the bracket. xthumbsupx

























Just kidding as I don't disrepect any of the 16 teams that will make the postseason....just had to throw in that last remark after some of the digs people have made on the Gateway conference.

[ASUG8]

Co-champs, no autobid. We get it already. Are you all just arguing this point to run up your post counts?
:D

Yeah, I'm a huge poster on this site - I want to be just like you with thousands of posts
I don't think my post was directed toward you anyway, just making a point to a terrier. xcoffeex

[CamelCityAppFan]

Give the #4 seed to the Salukis! I don't know why anyone thinks that the #4 seed is better than the "top" unseeded spot on the 2-3 side of the bracket. You'll still get the first round home game, and the possibility of a 2nd if you get help from a first round seeded team loss-- which I think is very possible among the projected 2-3 seeds so far.

You probably play the semis on the road, which is what you would probably have to do in the semis as the 4th seed anyway. Except if you are the 4th seed, you have to play UNI on the road in the semis.

I think UNI is the class of the field at the moment, I'd rather catch them in Finley instead of UNIDome. And you have to be on the other side of the bracket for that to happen... xtwocentsx

[bench]

Give the #4 seed to the Salukis! I don't know why anyone thinks that the #4 seed is better than the "top" unseeded spot on the 2-3 side of the bracket. You'll still get the first round home game, and the possibility of a 2nd if you get help from a first round seeded team loss-- which I think is very possible among the projected 2-3 seeds so far.

You probably play the semis on the road, which is what you would probably have to do in the semis as the 4th seed anyway. Except if you are the 4th seed, you have to play UNI on the road in the semis.

I think UNI is the class of the field at the moment, I'd rather catch them in Finley instead of UNIDome. And you have to be on the other side of the bracket for that to happen... xtwocentsx

Only problem is for this to work, App would have to either catch a two or three seed, or fall to what would be a six or seven. They're almost certainly a four or five; any higher would be a stretch, and any lower couldn't be justified. For the four and five seeds, all roads lead through the Dome. I don't see any way around it at this point, short of losing to Chattanooga on Saturday.

[MSU_77]

After Montana goes down this weekend xsmiley_wix , I've got:

1. Northern Iowa
2. McNeese
3. App. State
4. SIU

[CamelCityAppFan]

Only problem is for this to work, App would have to either catch a two or three seed, or fall to what would be a six or seven. They're almost certainly a four or five; any higher would be a stretch, and any lower couldn't be justified. For the four and five seeds, all roads lead through the Dome. I don't see any way around it at this point, short of losing to Chattanooga on Saturday.

So we're all pulling against SIU, Montana, & McNeese this weekend! xsmiley_wix

I agree that 2-3 seed is best.

[Woof]

[QUOTE=Black and Gold Express;742465]
And here we thought Wofford people were smart...

In both games, ASU had a chance to win it in the final minutes of play. Explain to us how that is "beaten soundly"?


xoopsx Easy there Express! You mountain boys sure are a defensive lot, but one thing is certain...you don't want to have the academics argument !

My comments have been misconstrued by the Appy hoard to the point I feel some clarification is necessary. Semantics aside, a W is a W. I never intended to discredit the Appys, but rather question the fairness of the system. I am admittedly still stinging from the '02 snub we were dealt (we had identical records and we beat Appy head to head, but guess who stayed home ?xoopsx ). My point is this: I think the perenial powers and bigger ($$) schools get a lot more love in the polls than maybe is always warranted. I recognize everyone wants to make $$, but IMO the primary focus for playoffs should be on who are the best teams, not who sells the most tickets.

I agree we played our best game against you and you weren't at full strength. "Sound" to me means it was no fluke...that's all. I am just happy we didn't have to rely on "the committee" to make it in this year. xpeacex

[The Moody1]

I had heard a rumor that JMU might be making a first round trip to Boone for a late night game Friday on ESPN.......that was about a week ago. Who knows anymore though

The Friday ESPN game time is set for 1:30 pm and nothing can be for sure when there are still games to be played.

[ASUdrummer]

After Montana goes down this weekend xsmiley_wix , I've got:

1. Northern Iowa
2. McNeese
3. App. State
4. SIU

That would be the most amazing situation possible for ASU. I would pretty much go crazy in ecstatic joy. Let's go 'Cats!!!

[Saluki_man]

Well, ESPN may want to have SIU as a seed so they can save money on trasporting equipment to Carbondale for Dec 1st, especially since ESPNU broadcasts the men's basketball top 25 matchup of Indiana and SIU.:D

[APPSTER]

After Montana goes down this weekend xsmiley_wix , I've got:

1. Northern Iowa
2. McNeese
3. App. State
4. SIU

Just make sure to lock up the ole' homestead before headin' out to whoop the Griz.......