Football Attendance Comparison- Upper Midwest

[Laker]

2022 SJU vs. FCS/Division II Schools in Upper Midwest

No.
School
NCAA
Gms.
Total
Avg.


1.
North Dakota State
FCS
9
141,179
15,687


2.
South Dakota State
FCS
9
113,227
12,581


3.
Saint John's
III
8
57,715
7,214


4.
Northern Iowa
FCS
6
50,154
8,359


5.
North Dakota
FCS
5
48,898
9,780


6.
South Dakota
FCS
5
31,772
6,354


7.
St. Thomas
FCS
6
31,366
5,228


8.
Northern State (S.D.)
II
6
27,688
4,615


9.
MSU-Mankato
II
6
22,664
3,777


10.
Bethel
III
5
21,451
4,290

[ST_Lawson]

Since a low in 2019, our average home attendance has steadily been increasing to the point where...we would now be just ahead of Bethel on that list.

https://media.tenor.com/j8R8CPLlhhMAAAAM/woop-dee-doo.gif

[POD Knows]

2022 SJU vs. FCS/Division II Schools in Upper Midwest

No.
School
NCAA
Gms.
Total
Avg.


1.
North Dakota State
FCS
9
141,179
15,687


2.
South Dakota State
FCS
9
113,227
12,581


3.
Saint John's
III
8
57,715
7,214


4.
Northern Iowa
FCS
6
50,154
8,359


5.
North Dakota
FCS
5
48,898
9,780


6.
South Dakota
FCS
5
31,772
6,354


7.
St. Thomas
FCS
6
31,366
5,228


8.
Northern State (S.D.)
II
6
27,688
4,615


9.
MSU-Mankato
II
6
22,664
3,777


10.
Bethel
III
5
21,451
4,290



It’s got to be the Johnnie Bread.

[Laker]

It’s got to be the Johnnie Bread.

Whenever I go there I try to buy some. Tasty stuff. I had a week long economics class there one summer- had at least two pieces at breakfast, dinner and supper.

[Bisonoline]

Whenever I go there I try to buy some. Tasty stuff. I had a week long economics class there one summer- had at least two pieces at breakfast, dinner and supper.

I ordered some and didnt care for it. Its expensive also.

[POD Knows]

I ordered some and didnt care for it. It’s expensive also.
What didn’t you like about it? The crust is awesome. It has been awhile since I had it. Used to get a loaf once in while when I was around there

[POD Knows]

Whenever I go there I try to buy some. Tasty stuff. I had a week long economics class there one summer- had at least two pieces at breakfast, dinner and supper.
I am kind of a bread fanatic, I can’t think of a type of style of bread that I don’t like

[Bisonoline]

What didn’t you like about it? The crust is awesome. It has been awhile since I had it. Used to get a loaf once in while when I was around there

Taste mainly. After all the hype I was really disappointed.

[UNHWildcat18]

2022 SJU vs. FCS/Division II Schools in Upper Midwest

No.
School
NCAA
Gms.
Total
Avg.


1.
North Dakota State
FCS
9
141,179
15,687


2.
South Dakota State
FCS
9
113,227
12,581


3.
Saint John's
III
8
57,715
7,214


4.
Northern Iowa
FCS
6
50,154
8,359


5.
North Dakota
FCS
5
48,898
9,780


6.
South Dakota
FCS
5
31,772
6,354


7.
St. Thomas
FCS
6
31,366
5,228


8.
Northern State (S.D.)
II
6
27,688
4,615


9.
MSU-Mankato
II
6
22,664
3,777


10.
Bethel
III
5
21,451
4,290




I wish MSU-Mankato would just be FCS already....They already plan on replacing the stadium right?

[POD Knows]

Taste mainly. After all the hype I was really disappointed.
Those old monks that started that deal had to keep the taste kind of “spartan” so it is a little bland but that is the charm.

[Professor Chaos]

I wish MSU-Mankato would just be FCS already....They already plan on replacing the stadium right?

Laker can correct me if I'm off-base here but I think politics would come into play with that potential move. There's one public university in Minnesota that competes at the D1 level (St Thomas is private) and that's by design. UM-Twin Cities is the golden goose and has a ton of political clout in the state. I think the Goophers and their supporters are burned by how UM-Duluth and St Cloud St have surpassed them in hockey in recent years where they all compete at the D1 level and that further impedes a full D1 move for any public university in Minnesota.

[Bisonoline]

Those old monks that started that deal had to keep the taste kind of “spartan” so it is a little bland but that is the charm.

At 19.00 a loaf they dont have to be spartan. :D

[uni88]

2022 SJU vs. FCS/Division II Schools in Upper Midwest

No.
School
NCAA
Gms.
Total
Avg.


1.
North Dakota State
FCS
9
141,179
15,687


2.
South Dakota State
FCS
9
113,227
12,581


3.
Saint John's
III
8
57,715
7,214


4.
Northern Iowa
FCS
6
50,154
8,359


5.
North Dakota
FCS
5
48,898
9,780


6.
South Dakota
FCS
5
31,772
6,354


7.
St. Thomas
FCS
6
31,366
5,228


8.
Northern State (S.D.)
II
6
27,688
4,615


9.
MSU-Mankato
II
6
22,664
3,777


10.
Bethel
III
5
21,451
4,290




Where are the GLIAC schools like Grand Valley State, Michigan Tech, etc.?


Laker can correct me if I'm off-base here but I think politics would come into play with that potential move. There's one public university in Minnesota that competes at the D1 level (St Thomas is private) and that's by design. UM-Twin Cities is the golden goose and has a ton of political clout in the state. I think the Goophers and their supporters are burned by how UM-Duluth and St Cloud St have surpassed them in hockey in recent years where they all compete at the D1 level and that further impedes a full D1 move for any public university in Minnesota.

Minnesota and Wisconsin share that trait except Wisconsin has D1 schools that don't play football (UW Milwaukee and UW Green Bay)

[POD Knows]

At 19.00 a loaf they dont have to be spartan. :D
Oh. Wow. That is a lot. I don’t remember paying anything close to that.

[Laker]

Laker can correct me if I'm off-base here but I think politics would come into play with that potential move. There's one public university in Minnesota that competes at the D1 level (St Thomas is private) and that's by design. UM-Twin Cities is the golden goose and has a ton of political clout in the state. I think the Goophers and their supporters are burned by how UM-Duluth and St Cloud St have surpassed them in hockey in recent years where they all compete at the D1 level and that further impedes a full D1 move for any public university in Minnesota.

You are spot on. I've been preaching this for years. Add to the burn that the Mavs made the finals last year in hockey.

Yes, it has always been divide and conquer, just like Wisconsin and Nebraska.

[Laker]

I wish MSU-Mankato would just be FCS already....They already plan on replacing the stadium right?

No, it should be replaced- it is falling apart and the press box should have been napalmed during Desert Storm. Maybe even the invasion of Granada. But hockey takes so much money, unless they have a big donor nothing has been done yet. I told them that I would donate the restroom like in the Green Beret movie.

The only grass field in the NSIC. The grounds crew works miracles, especially during the playoffs. You should have seen it at the last spring game- the grass was all dead from Hockey Day in Minnesota. By the opener it was pristine.

[OhioHen]

Where are the GLIAC schools like Grand Valley State, Michigan Tech, etc.?

Michigan :D

Looks like @Laker defined Upper Midwest as Iowa, Minnesota, and the Dakotas.

[Gil Dobie]

Where are the GLIAC schools like Grand Valley State, Michigan Tech, etc.?



Minnesota and Wisconsin share that trait except Wisconsin has D1 schools that don't play football (UW Milwaukee and UW Green Bay)

Add Nebraska to that list.

[UNHWildcat18]

No, it should be replaced- it is falling apart and the press box should have been napalmed during Desert Storm. Maybe even the invasion of Granada. But hockey takes so much money, unless they have a big donor nothing has been done yet. I told them that I would donate the restroom like in the Green Beret movie.

The only grass field in the NSIC. The grounds crew works miracles, especially during the playoffs. You should have seen it at the last spring game- the grass was all dead from Hockey Day in Minnesota. By the opener it was pristine.

Well.
1. Sorry about the situation about not being able to move to FCS... I think its where you guys belong.
2. As someone who spent years frustrated about the stadium situation, I feel your pain. I hope you guys get the whole thing redone eventually. Hell our away side is still an eyesore to look at that everyone wants changed.

[ST_Lawson]

No, it should be replaced- it is falling apart and the press box should have been napalmed during Desert Storm.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b9/2e/7f/b92e7f74752385a202cf5a5df67adfa6.jpg

[Laker]

Michigan :D

Looks like @Laker defined Upper Midwest as Iowa, Minnesota, and the Dakotas.

I don't- I just copied the press release from SJU.

[Laker]

Where are the GLIAC schools like Grand Valley State, Michigan Tech, etc.?



Minnesota and Wisconsin share that trait except Wisconsin has D1 schools that don't play football (UW Milwaukee and UW Green Bay)

This is the press release from St John's. not mine. I'm a Methodist.

[nodak651]

This is the press release from St John's. not mine. I'm a Methodist.

Link?

[Laker]

Link?

SJU Football Completes 2023 Schedule, Leads Division III in 2022 Total Attendance - Saint John's University Athletics (gojohnnies.com) (https://gojohnnies.com/news/2023/3/1/sju-football-completes-2023-schedule-leads-division-iii-in-2022-total-attendance.aspx)

[JacksFan40]

Add Nebraska to that list.
Last thing the Huskers want is competition for their abysmal football program. Not saying Omaha would compete in any way with big red, but they’ll never let them bring back football.

[nodak651]

Last thing the Huskers want is competition for their abysmal football program. Not saying Omaha would compete in any way with big red, but they’ll never let them bring back football.
There's smoke, though. They gathered 200 fb alumni on campus this year. Check out this article: https://omaha.com/sports/college/uno/shatel-top-administrators-arent-just-showing-up-for-omaha-sports-theyre-promoting-them/article_5d7334d2-9b2a-11ed-be4d-4bc4e9ea421b.html

I honestly think Fenton is serious about adding FB, meaning he's looking into the pro's and con's and is having discussions with the MVFC FB schools. To this end, I think Omaha may have gathered the FB alumni as part of this process, to help determine how much money could potentially be raised if they were to consider bringing FB back.

Listen to what Fenton said yesterday. https://twitter.com/SamHerderFCS/status/1632880510962655234

I'm not saying UNO is bringing FB back, but the point is, never say never.

[taper]

Hey! Summit commissioner openly discussing football. You just turned on the bat signal for a certain poster.

I'm all for it btw. Doubt we'll get any MVC converts but SEMO and Lindenwood wouldn't be bad, and Northern Colorado would be a great travel partner with Denver. UNO coming back would be awesome.

[nodak651]

Hey! Summit commissioner openly discussing football. You just turned on the bat signal for a certain poster.

I'm all for it btw. Doubt we'll get any MVC converts but SEMO and Lindenwood wouldn't be bad, and Northern Colorado would be a great travel partner with Denver. UNO coming back would be awesome.

Would a smaller conference perhaps be better anyway though? Would allow NDSU to play more OOC games vs Montana/Montana State/Deleware, etc. The schedule has been complained about recently, and more OOC opportunities would also provide the opportunity for a higher percentage of the conference to get teams into the NCAA tournament. More data points and less cannibalizing with conf vs conf losses.

Otherwise, would there really be much preventing UNI, Illinois State, and Missouri State from joining as football affiliates? What would they have to lose?

If the conference doesn't want affiliates, that would make sense as well, and SEMO/Lindenwood aren't the worst options. I'd prefer Mankato over them, but I guess only if the Summit didn't add football and the mavs went the Pioneer route.

[SDFS]

Would a smaller conference perhaps be better anyway though? Would allow NDSU to play more OOC games vs Montana/Montana State/Deleware, etc. The schedule has been complained about recently, and more OOC opportunities would also provide the opportunity for a higher percentage of the conference to get teams into the NCAA tournament. More data points and less cannibalizing with conf vs conf losses.

Otherwise, would there really be much preventing UNI, Illinois State, and Missouri State from joining as football affiliates? What would they have to lose?

If the conference doesn't want affiliates, that would make sense as well, and SEMO/Lindenwood aren't the worst options. I'd prefer Mankato over them, but I guess only if the Summit didn't add football and the mavs went the Pioneer route.

St. Thomas and Lindenwood both Football and Hockey. Plus, this puts teams in Minneapolis and St. Louis which would give the Summit League the following markets:

- St. Louis - Lindenwood
- Kansas City - UMKC
- Tulsa - ORU
- Omaha - OU
- Denver - DU
- Minneapolis - St. Thomas

Honestly, I am not sure how much longer ORU hangs out in the Summit League. If they make another major run. The school president might be looking at another conference.

[taper]

St. Thomas and Lindenwood both Football and Hockey. Plus, this puts teams in Minneapolis and St. Louis which would give the Summit League the following markets:

- St. Louis - Lindenwood
- Kansas City - UMKC
- Tulsa - ORU
- Omaha - OU
- Denver - DU
- Minneapolis - St. Thomas

Honestly, I am not sure how much longer ORU hangs out in the Summit League. If they make another major run. The school president might be looking at another conference.
ORU left the Summit awhile ago then came crawling back within 2 years. Not saying they wouldn't accept a MVC invite but their pres will really be sticking his neck out by risking that mistake again. If that does happen the Summit and OVC raid each other and maybe only one survives. I'm placing my bets on Summit, our new commissioner looks really good.
Johnson vs NCAA could destroy college athletics as we know it, I'm hoping any major FCS realignment waits until that decision because it could change everything.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Last thing the Huskers want is competition for their abysmal football program. Not saying Omaha would compete in any way with big red, but they’ll never let them bring back football.

So bizarre. What's the logic?

If UNO re-started football at the FCS level, the Cornhuskers would lose, what, 3 or 4 PWOs who would otherwise play scholarship ball in Omaha?

There are probably a dozen state schools in Alabama sponsoring FBS or FCS football now. Has that hurt the Crimson Tide?

[SDFS]

So bizarre. What's the logic?

If UNO re-started football at the FCS level, the Cornhuskers would lose, what, 3 or 4 PWOs who would otherwise play scholarship ball in Omaha?

There are probably a dozen state schools in Alabama sponsoring FBS or FCS football now. Has that hurt the Crimson Tide?

There is no logic in politics.

[SDFS]

ORU left the Summit awhile ago then came crawling back within 2 years. Not saying they wouldn't accept a MVC invite but their pres will really be sticking his neck out by risking that mistake again. If that does happen the Summit and OVC raid each other and maybe only one survives. I'm placing my bets on Summit, our new commissioner looks really good.
Johnson vs NCAA could destroy college athletics as we know it, I'm hoping any major FCS realignment waits until that decision because it could change everything.

ORU saw the internal workings of the Southland and decided they needed to get out before the conference imploded. I am thinking buyer's remorse is more appropriate.

[ElCid]

So bizarre. What's the logic?

If UNO re-started football at the FCS level, the Cornhuskers would lose, what, 3 or 4 PWOs who would otherwise play scholarship ball in Omaha?

There are probably a dozen state schools in Alabama sponsoring FBS or FCS football now. Has that hurt the Crimson Tide?

This happens in a few states. Anything that detracts from possible recruits, tickets sales, press time, licensed football fan merchandise, ad dollars, etc. is seen as threat, however small. It is because certain people are in positions of power capable of preventing it. It wasn't prevented in some states just because of timing, luck, personalities, etc. But once the Div I boat sails for public schools, there is no going back and it can easily proliferate with lots of directional and extension schools jumping.

[JacksFan40]

St. Thomas and Lindenwood both Football and Hockey. Plus, this puts teams in Minneapolis and St. Louis which would give the Summit League the following markets:

- St. Louis - Lindenwood
- Kansas City - UMKC
- Tulsa - ORU
- Omaha - OU
- Denver - DU
- Minneapolis - St. Thomas

Honestly, I am not sure how much longer ORU hangs out in the Summit League. If they make another major run. The school president might be looking at another conference.
ORU fans aren’t happy the league is so Dakota centric, and most of the advertisers are also based around the Dakotas. I agree with them to an extent, I would like to see the Summit try and get more national recognition with bigger sponsors. But I don’t see ORU leaving, because I’m not sure where they’d go, the Horizon maybe?

[uni88]

St. Thomas and Lindenwood both Football and Hockey. Plus, this puts teams in Minneapolis and St. Louis which would give the Summit League the following markets:

- St. Louis - Lindenwood
- Kansas City - UMKC
- Tulsa - ORU
- Omaha - OU
- Denver - DU
- Minneapolis - St. Thomas

Honestly, I am not sure how much longer ORU hangs out in the Summit League. If they make another major run. The school president might be looking at another conference.

Hasn't the rise of the Sunbelt Conference and fall of Conference USA taught us that rivalries and fanbases are more important than markets for non Power 5 conferences?

[SDFS]

Conference USA has been crushed by the Big 12 and conference expansion. I think success for a conference is a mix:

1) School leadership commitment to support sports.
2) Strong fanbases, rivalries and historic success.
3) Flagship schools and large market schools.
4) Public and private schools/strong academic profiles.

The Summit League has all of those elements.

[DFW HOYA]

Conference USA has been crushed by the Big 12 and conference expansion. I think success for a conference is a mix:

1) School leadership commitment to support sports.
2) Strong fanbases, rivalries and historic success.
3) Flagship schools and large market schools.
4) Public and private schools/strong academic.

The Summit League has all of those elements.

The Patriot League, well...not much of any of these.

[JacksFan40]

Conference USA has been crushed by the Big 12 and conference expansion. I think success for a conference is a mix:

1) School leadership commitment to support sports.
2) Strong fanbases, rivalries and historic success.
3) Flagship schools and large market schools.
4) Public and private schools/strong academic profiles.

The Summit League has all of those elements.
I think C-USA would be best served to center it's geography around Texas and surrounding states (New Mexico, Louisiana, Arkansas) as opposed to being so geographically spread out with schools in places like Florida, Virginia, and Georgia. But that is just my opinion, I prefer conferences that make sense geographically.