AGS Poll Top 25 - Week 11

[AGSPoll]

Any Given Saturday Poll Top 25
11/12/2007
(First place votes in parenthesis)
1. Northern Iowa (61) 10-0
2. North Dakota St. (17) 10-0
3. McNeese St. (1) 10-0
4. Montana (1) 10-0
5. Southern Illinois 9-1
6. Appalachian St. 8-2
7. Richmond 8-2
8. Massachusetts 8-2
9. Delaware 8-2
10. Yale 9-0
11. Delaware St. 9-1
12. Eastern Kentucky 8-2
13. Wofford 8-3
14. James Madison 7-3
15. Eastern Illinois 7-3
16. Georgia Southern 7-3
17. Youngstown St. 7-4
18. Eastern Washington 7-3
19. Fordham 8-2
20. Grambling St. 8-2
21. New Hampshire 6-4
22. South Dakota St. 6-4
23. Hofstra 7-3
24. Cal Poly 6-4
25. The Citadel 6-4

Dropping out: Elon (21), Western Illinois (25)

Others receiving votes (minimum of 5 votes): Dayton (35), Elon (30), Alabama A&M (27), Harvard (17), Villanova (14), Western Illinois (12), Colgate (11), San Diego (11), Albany (9), Liberty (9), Norfolk St. (6)

MOST SIGNIFICANT WIN OF THE WEEK: Richmond
MOST SIGNIFICANT LOSS OF THE WEEK: Georgia Southern

[danefan]

xnonono2x

[Millwoch]

I think Furman should be in the top 30...they have not given up on a season that is not up to their normal standards, and had a big win against a top 10 team. The poll itself looks pretty good to me and 20-30 matters little as we will all be sitting at home watching the others play in Dec.

[89rabbit]

Nice to be back in the top 25! xthumbsupx

[Mountaineer#96]

So I guess Yale is this year's San Diego.......minus all the threads about playoffs...;)

[89Hen]

So I guess Yale is this year's San Diego.......minus all the threads about playoffs...;)
Minus the fans begging for respect. xsmiley_wix

[UNHWildCats]

So I guess Yale is this year's San Diego.......minus all the threads about playoffs...;)
Yale knows their place.

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

Once again I'm still trying to figure this McNeese above Montana thing out...xrotatehx xrotatehx xlolx

[danefan]

So I guess Yale is this year's San Diego.......minus all the threads about playoffs...;)


Exactly....ranked so high for what reason? It must be that mightly conference they play in!xthumbsupx And yes, that is coming from an NEC fan. The Ivy hasn't shown me anything this year. I've watched a lot of games on SNY and while I think Yale is good, they are certainly not top-10 material.

Raise your hand if you voted Yale in the top ten and haven't seen an Ivy league game all year.........xpeacex xcoffeex

[FargoBison]

Minus the fans begging for respect. xsmiley_wix

And a schedule with multiple non-DI games.

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

Also EWU is not 8-2 they are 7-3...hard to respect the poll when the win/loss records are not even correct LOL

[Tilldog40]

Why is UNH still a top 25 team after 4 conference losses?

[FCS Preview]

Any Given Saturday Poll Top 25
11/12/2007
(First place votes in parenthesis)
1. Northern Iowa (61) 10-0
2. North Dakota St. (17) 10-0
3. McNeese St. (1) 10-0
4. Montana (1) 10-0
5. Southern Illinois 9-1
6. Appalachian St. 8-2
7. Richmond 8-2
8. Massachusetts 8-2
9. Delaware 8-2
10. Yale 9-0
11. Delaware St. 9-1
12. Eastern Kentucky 8-2
13. Wofford 8-3
14. James Madison 7-3
15. Eastern Illinois 7-3
16. Georgia Southern 7-3
17. Youngstown St. 7-4
18. Eastern Washington 8-2
19. Fordham 8-2
20. Grambling St. 8-2
21. New Hampshire 6-4
22. South Dakota St. 6-4
23. Hofstra 7-3
24. Cal Poly 6-4
25. The Citadel 6-4

So going down the Top 25, and eliminating any ineligibles, and any 4 loss/6 D-I win teams, (such as Georgia Southern) we'd have a playoff that includes:

1. Northern Iowa (61) 10-0
3. McNeese St. (1) 10-0
4. Montana (1) 10-0
5. Southern Illinois 9-1
6. Appalachian St. 8-2
7. Richmond 8-2
8. Massachusetts 8-2
9. Delaware 8-2
11. Delaware St. 9-1
12. Eastern Kentucky 8-2
13. Wofford 8-3
14. James Madison 7-3
15. Eastern Illinois 7-3
18. Eastern Washington 8-2
19. Fordham 8-2
23. Hofstra 7-3

[FargoBison]

Why is UNH still a top 25 team after 4 conference losses?

They are in the top 25 because when you get to the bottem ten, 4 loss teams don't look so bad anymore.

[danefan]

And a schedule with multiple non-DI games.

But an OOC schedule with who on it? PL teams that aren't exactly having the best season ever (minus Holy Cross who is having a decent season).

[danefan]

So going down the Top 25, and eliminating any ineligibles, and any 4 loss/6 D-I win teams, (such as Georgia Southern) we'd have a playoff that includes:

1. Northern Iowa (61) 10-0
3. McNeese St. (1) 10-0
4. Montana (1) 10-0
5. Southern Illinois 9-1
6. Appalachian St. 8-2
7. Richmond 8-2
8. Massachusetts 8-2
9. Delaware 8-2
11. Delaware St. 9-1
12. Eastern Kentucky 8-2
13. Wofford 8-3
14. James Madison 7-3
15. Eastern Illinois 7-3
18. Eastern Washington 8-2
19. Fordham 8-2
23. Hofstra 7-3


Which is what I actually think it will end up being.

[JohnStOnge]

Once again I'm still trying to figure this McNeese above Montana thing out...xrotatehx xrotatehx xlolx

Schedule that is rated tougher by most systems. Better performance against common opponents. Most power rating systems have McNeese rated higher. In fact, if I'm seeing right, all 23 that are up so far at http://www.mratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm have McNeese rated higher. It's pretty straightforward.

I'll admit McNeese's win this past week wasn't real impressive. But the extent to which Montana "dominated" Idaho State wasn't real impressive either.

[FargoBison]

But an OOC schedule with exactly who on it? PL teams that aren't exactly having the best season ever (minus Holy Cross who is having a decent season).

I voted Yale #10, I'll admit that. I also had them at #16 preseason, I'll admit that too. I have only seen them play a few games over the past two seasons. Honestly, I have no idea how they would do against a top 15 team but after seeing a few teams lose to weaker teams there is enough doubt in my mind to think they could win.

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

Schedule that is rated tougher by most systems. Better performance against common opponents. Most power rating systems have McNeese rated higher. In fact, if I'm seeing right, all 23 that are up so far at http://www.mratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm have McNeese rated higher. It's pretty straightforward.

But the extent to which Montana "dominated" Idaho State wasn't real impressive either.

How is the schedule tougher? I don't see one team they've played that is any tougher than any of the teams we've played xlolx I'll give you a better performance against them maybe but your schedule is NOT tougher i really don't care what a computer ranking system says

[danefan]

Schedule that is rated tougher by most systems. Better performance against common opponents. Most power rating systems have McNeese rated higher. In fact, if I'm seeing right, all 23 that are up so far at http://www.mratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm have McNeese rated higher. It's pretty straightforward.

I'll admit McNeese's win this past week wasn't real impressive. But the extent to which Montana "dominated" Idaho State wasn't real impressive either.

Wow, there are some really crazy rankings on that site. I haven't seen that before. Cool!xthumbsupx

[Dane96]

My issues are with Cal Poly and S.D.S.U. The Citadel was my last team out...but Cal Poly and S.D.S.U.? People need to look at schedules more.

Villanova NOT being in the Top 25 is ridiculous.

CAL POLY:

LOSSES:

at Texas State
at Idaho
at South Dakota State
North Dakota State (Top 5)

WINS:

Western Oregon
Northern Colorado
at Idaho State
at Southern Utah
Weber State
at UC Davis

VILLANOVA:

at Maryland
at JMU (Top 15)
at Richmond (Top 10) By 8pts
at Massachusetts (Top 10) 4 OVERTIMES

Wins:

at Lehigh
Penn
Maine
W&M
Hofstra (Top 25)
at Towson

THE CITADEL:

Lost:

at Wisconsin
Wofford (Top 15)
at Georgia Southern (Top 20)
Appy State (Top 10)

Beat:

CSU
Webber International
at UT-Chatt
Furman (OT)
at Western Carolina
ELON

The Citadel owns no Top 25 wins...and has losses to an FBS, at Top 10, Top 15, and Top 20 team. I have no problem with them being ranked.

Villanova owns a Top 25 win. It has losses to an FBS and a TWO Top-10's (one in 4 OT's and the other by 8), and a Top 15. THIS IS A STRONGER RESUME.

Either 'Nova or The Citadel could be ranked.

Cal Poly has no signature wins. Signature losses include a Top 5 team and a previously unranked S. Dakota State.

Are you telling me THAT RESUME gets them in over a Villanova-- People research and read the schedules.

Additionally, S. Dakota State doesnt have monster wins to have themselves ranked-- a bad Southern Utah, a bad Texas State, and a bad S.F. Austin. Then you have mediocre UC-Davis, a good Central Arkansas...and the suspect Cal Poly.

The losses for SDSU were to big boys G. Southern, UNI, YSU, and a four overtime job to Western Illinois.

Again...not Top 25 worthy IMHO.

I mean, this is pretty glaring.

[danefan]

I voted Yale #10, I'll admit that. I also had them at #16 preseason, I'll admit that too. I have only seen them play a few games over the past two seasons. Honestly, I have no idea how they would do against a top 15 team but after seeing a few teams lose to weaker teams there is enough doubt in my mind to think they could win.

I respect you for saying that you voted for Yale. I don't agree with your voting philosphy though. I just don't understand how you can vote them at 10 if you aren't sure how good they really are. I understand saying "hey, they're pretty good but haven't proven themselves yet, so let put them in at 20 or so." But not 10. Sorry, I just disagree. xpeacex
Thanks for responding to me though. I like to here other opinions.

[BigApp]

Once again I'm still trying to figure this McNeese above Montana thing out...xrotatehx xrotatehx xlolx

more OOC road wins...xrulesx

[Syntax Error]

How is the schedule tougher? I don't see one team they've played that is any tougher than any of the teams we've played.Not to get in this debate but GFSD, are you saying Fort Lewis is as tough as ULL?

[FargoBison]

at Lehigh
Penn
Maine
W&M
Hofstra (Top 25)
at Towson

I think about as highly of these teams as the ones SDSU has beaten. The Citadel should be ranked over all three though.

[Ivytalk]

What's the AGS Poll weekly record for four-loss teams in the Top 25?xconfusedx xreadx

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

more OOC road wins...xrulesx

true...but against two creampuff teams

[GreatAppSt]

true...but against two creampuff teams
on the road is on the raod.

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

Not to get in this debate but GFSD, are you saying Fort Lewis is as tough as ULL?

No I'm not...I'm saying overall McNeese's SOS taken as a whole is no more or less impressive than Montana's

Something we take flack for and no one seems to mention about McNeese on AGS lol

[Dane96]

at Lehigh
Penn
Maine
W&M
Hofstra (Top 25)
at Towson

I think about as highly of these teams as the ones SDSU has beaten. The Citadel should be ranked over all three though.

Ok...but look at who the teams lost to. We are dealing with FOUR losses. Nova has lost to an FBS, and TWO top 10 teams by 4OT's and 8 pts. They also lost to a Top 20.

The LOSSES are more impt here...because A) Nova played tough in all of them...and B) Nova lost to BETTER TEAMS than SDSU and Cal Poly.

You can't deny those facts.

Just my .02.

[HensRock]

Nice to be back in the top 25! xthumbsupx

I've been given you guys some love for weeks now! Glad to see you break through. xthumbsupx

[BigApp]

true...but against two creampuff teams

so, in your opinion, Ft Lewis/Albany > UL-L/South Dakota ? xeyebrowx

[FargoBison]

Ok...but look at who the teams lost to. We are dealing with FOUR losses. Nova has lost to an FBS, and TWO top 10 teams by 4OT's and 8 pts. They also lost to a Top 20.

The LOSSES are more impt here...because A) Nova played tough in all of them...and B) Nova lost to BETTER TEAMS than SDSU and Cal Poly.

You can't deny those facts.

Just my .02.

I'm not too big into quality losses, both teams played tough schedules and that is enough for me. I also think Cal Poly would kill Hofstra, that is just my opinon but Hofstra has done nothing all year long. That SDSU win over Cal Poly is what is putting them over the edge when it comes Nova, having a win over UCA is also nice but they are probably equal to Hofstra.

[Syntax Error]

I don't see one team they've played that is any tougher than any of the teams we've played.
No I'm not...I'm saying overall McNeese's SOS taken as a whole is no more or less impressive than Montana's
Something we take flack for and no one seems to mention about McNeese on AGS lolOh because you said you didn't see one team that is tougher. BTW, click on the search button and type in:
McNeese schedule easy

You'll see it has been talked about a bunch

[Dane96]

I'm not too big into quality losses, both teams played tough schedules and that is enough for me. I also think Cal Poly would kill Hofstra, that is just my opinon but Hofstra has done nothing all year long. That SDSU win over Cal Poly is what is putting them over the edge when it comes Nova, having a win over UCA is also nice but they are probably equal to Hofstra.

Ok...then what is Caly Poly's reasons for being ranked compared that to 'Nova?

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

so, in your opinion, Ft Lewis/Albany > UL-L ? xeyebrowx

See above statment xlolx I'm not trying to get into particular team vs team comparisons...what i'm saying is Montana was ranked above McNeese a few weeks ago and has played similar caliber teams...so I don't see it being SOS. ALSO i'm not arguing that Montana is supposed to be or should be above them i'm trying to figure out why in the last few weeks McNeese passed Montana and I don't think it can be because of SOS. The only way I see it is if it's because of a better offensive performance. Which if that's the case doesn't really retain water this week.

Make sense? Maybe i'm just talking out of my a$$ xlolx

[OL FU]

I think Furman should be in the top 30...they have not given up on a season that is not up to their normal standards, and had a big win against a top 10 team. The poll itself looks pretty good to me and 20-30 matters little as we will all be sitting at home watching the others play in Dec.


Thanks, I think it is hard to vote for a 5-5 team. I didn't

[JohnStOnge]

more OOC road wins...xrulesx

Seriously, the only argument I can see for ranking Montana higher than McNeese at this point is performance during previous years. And, even then, the two programs are 3-3 against each other historically...with neither yet being able to win on the other's home field.

[FCS Preview]

I'm not too big into quality losses, both teams played tough schedules and that is enough for me. I also think Cal Poly would kill Hofstra, that is just my opinon but Hofstra has done nothing all year long. That SDSU win over Cal Poly is what is putting them over the edge when it comes Nova, having a win over UCA is also nice but they are probably equal to Hofstra.

If Hofstra wins this week, they will have wins over Furman and Massachusetts.

Cal Poly's signature wins this year are??? Weber State? And nobody else...

[McDABest]

Once again I'm still trying to figure this McNeese above Montana thing out...xrotatehx xrotatehx xlolx

Huh, I've been trying to figure out this Montana above McNeese thing in other poles.xlolx

[MSU_77]

Yes, McNeese has had an easier-than-expected schedule this year. I don't think it was as easy as Montana's, but it was pretty easy.Who knew that ULL would be as bad as they are even though they are FBS (besides Jay Gallagher I mean?).

It almost bit us in the ass when Northwestern State turned came to play this weekend and gave the Pokes all they could handle. I'm hoping the finale with UCA will be a tougher-than-expected contest as well to provide good preparation for the playoffs. It's impressive to the alums when the team wins all its games by 3 TDs or more but its not good post-season preparation.

But, I'll take 10-0 any day of the week.

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

Huh, I've been trying to figure out this Montana above McNeese thing in other poles.xlolx

Imagine that xsmiley_wix

[FargoBison]

Ok...then what is Caly Poly's reasons for being ranked compared that to 'Nova?

I don't know, Nova has definately played a tougher schedule but both teams don't really have much for wins. Cal Poly's performance against NDSU probably stuck in a lot of people's minds being so recent. That said, Nova has a chance at UD this weekend and if they pull that out they should jump CP easily.

[Millwoch]

Thanks, I think it is hard to vote for a 5-5 team. I didn't

I know where the voters a coming from...but a few votes are deserving...Unforturnately for the Furple nation a winning season is all they can ask for now...but remember a few weeks ago that was in question. Isn't everyone of their loses to a top 25 team or FBS(I think it was Clemson, Appy, Woffy, The Citadel(in ot), and Hofstra) When you look at it that way it is not too bad.

[appfan2008]

looks pretty good to me... seems as though there are a lot of four loss teams creaping into the top 25 now...

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

Any Given Saturday Poll Top 25
11/12/2007
(First place votes in parenthesis)
1. Northern Iowa (61) 10-0
2. North Dakota St. (17) 10-0
3. McNeese St. (1) 10-0
4. Montana (1) 10-0
5. Southern Illinois 9-1
6. Appalachian St. 8-2
7. Richmond 8-2
8. Massachusetts 8-2
9. Delaware 8-2
10. Yale 9-0
11. Delaware St. 9-1
12. Eastern Kentucky 8-2
13. Wofford 8-3
14. James Madison 7-3
15. Eastern Illinois 7-3
16. Georgia Southern 7-3
17. Youngstown St. 7-4
18. Eastern Washington 8-2 They are 7-3
19. Fordham 8-2
20. Grambling St. 8-2
21. New Hampshire 6-4
22. South Dakota St. 6-4
23. Hofstra 7-3
24. Cal Poly 6-4
25. The Citadel 6-4

Dropping out: Elon (21), Western Illinois (25)

Others receiving votes (minimum of 5 votes): Dayton (35), Elon (30), Alabama A&M (27), Harvard (17), Villanova (14), Western Illinois (12), Colgate (11), San Diego (11), Albany (9), Liberty (9), Norfolk St. (6)

MOST SIGNIFICANT WIN OF THE WEEK: Richmond
MOST SIGNIFICANT LOSS OF THE WEEK: Georgia Southern

OK EWU's record still isn't fixed...it may be my OCD but that's still buggin' me lol

[CatFan22]

So is this "homer" rule not in effect anymore or is there really someone who is not a UM fan or a McNeese fan that has them #1?

[FargoBison]

If Hofstra wins this week, they will have wins over Furman and Massachusetts.

Cal Poly's signature wins this year are??? Weber State? And nobody else...

Beat UMASS and then I'll agree.

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

So does this "homer" rule not in effect anymore or is there really someone who is not a UM fan or a McNeese fan that has them #1?

I don't think UM should be #1...I would put them at #3. UNI and NDSU have out-performed UM

[UNHWildCats]

So does this "homer" rule not in effect anymore or is there really someone who is not a UM fan or a McNeese fan that has them #1?
a McNeese fan and a Montana fan got together and planned it out xlolx xlolx xlolx

[CatFan22]

a McNeese fan and a Montana fan got together and planned it out xlolx xlolx xlolx

xlolx xrotatehx xrotatehx xrotatehx xlolx xnonox

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

a McNeese fan and a Montana fan got together and planned it out xlolx xlolx xlolx

xlolx xlolx Total conspiracy

[McDABest]

So is this "homer" rule not in effect anymore or is there really someone who is not a UM fan or a McNeese fan that has them #1?

Sorry to bust your bubble, but I don't think we should be #1. I think there should be a tie at #3 with McNeese and Montana. UNI and NDSU did better than us so far.

[McDABest]

a McNeese fan and a Montana fan got together and planned it out xlolx xlolx xlolx

Maybe xsmiley_wix

[CatFan22]

Sorry to bust your bubble, but I don't think we should be #1. I think there should be a tie at #3 with McNeese and Montana. UNI and NDSU did better than us so far.

I don't think you should be #1 either. I have you at #3. My question was just inquiring about the homer rule and if there was really a voter other than a McNeese fan or a UM fan that has them #1 because they both got 1 first place vote.

[CatFan22]

Maybe xsmiley_wix

I knew it. xsmiley_wix

[McDABest]

Don't worry I'm not always a homer. I am just one when I'm at "The Hole" and when I'm ringing my big, shiny, new, autographed cowbell.

[Col Hogan]

How is the schedule tougher? I don't see one team they've played that is any tougher than any of the teams we've played xlolx I'll give you a better performance against them maybe but your schedule is NOT tougher i really don't care what a computer ranking system says

Since we can't see every game...and really know our conference and not yours (I think that fair to say about all of us)...what else do we use...

I bet you think Montana is #1 and the BSC is tougher than other conferences...I'm not going to debate that topic here...

I feel CAA is stronger...Gateway folks feel they are and UNI is #1...

So, between what we know and read (such as computer ranking that don't have Montana as high as you feel they should be) we come up with our opinions...and vote...

That's why I care about what a computer ranking says...it's one element in a decision...xpeacex

[DSUHornet]

xnonono2x

Yale in front of us???

[JohnStOnge]

See above statment xlolx I'm not trying to get into particular team vs team comparisons...what i'm saying is Montana was ranked above McNeese a few weeks ago and has played similar caliber teams...so I don't see it being SOS. ALSO i'm not arguing that Montana is supposed to be or should be above them i'm trying to figure out why in the last few weeks McNeese passed Montana and I don't think it can be because of SOS. The only way I see it is if it's because of a better offensive performance. Which if that's the case doesn't really retain water this week.

Make sense? Maybe i'm just talking out of my a$$ xlolx

Ok. It makes sense if you subscribe to the traditional view that a team shouldn't drop in the polls as long as it doesn't lose. But that tradition is one reason (among others) why I like power ratings better. I think that, each week, teams should be assessed based on what's happened to that point of the current season. Where each team was ranked the prior week, to me, should not be a factor at all.

[blur2005]

I've been trying to keep Yale out of my top 10 the last few weeks because I don't feel they've done anything to prove top-10 status. The only reason I have them in the top 15 is because of the undefeated record...but again, who have they played?

I have similar reasoning for keeping Delaware State behind some 3-loss teams as well.

[carney2]

Yale in front of us???

You obviously haven't seen Yale play.

[AGSPoll]

Also EWU is not 8-2 they are 7-3...hard to respect the poll when the win/loss records are not even correct LOL

OK EWU's record still isn't fixed...it may be my OCD but that's still buggin' me lol
It is fixed now. Hard to respect cherry pickers who choose to dwell on a typo. LOL

[AGSPoll]

So is this "homer" rule not in effect anymore or is there really someone who is not a UM fan or a McNeese fan that has them #1?
Neiter vote was from a fan of the respective team.

[Black and Gold Express]

How is the schedule tougher? I don't see one team they've played that is any tougher than any of the teams we've played xlolx I'll give you a better performance against them maybe but your schedule is NOT tougher i really don't care what a computer ranking system says

Ah yes, the old "my biased human view is more accurate than an unbiased computer's view". xcoffeex Well it's clear nothing is going to change your mind, so let's let the playoffs determine if you're a worthy team or something more akin to a MEAC type team.

[LehighFan11]

Yale has beaten everyone on their schedule, that is all they can do. I agree they shouldn't crack the top then but they should be 10-12.

[sharkeycox]

Once again I'm still trying to figure this McNeese above Montana thing out...xrotatehx xrotatehx xlolx

Cowboys got more votes.xsmiley_wix

[McNeeserocket]

Once again I'm still trying to figure this McNeese above Montana thing out...xrotatehx xrotatehx xlolx

Ok. I have not previously bothered to respond to this who is #2 and who is #3 stuff, but since the gentleman from Montana (along with a herd/family/school/whatever of other Montana faithful) keeps bringing it up I feel inclined to give one viewpoint (mine). It seems strange to even have this discussion with a Montana fan as McNeese and Montana fans typically have nothing but respect for the other and rarely get into a pissing war.

Let me first say, it just doesn't matter that much who is rated what. True, having home games is perhaps a slight advantage and it provides some income to the school. However, if you want to get to the "Big Dance" you have to beat everyone in your bracket or beat the ones that beat others in your bracket. So I say "Bring EM ON" to the tune of anyone, anywhere, anytime!

Other than that little tirade, I offer the following:

When McNeese made out their schedule it appeared to be a decent competitive schedule. We had 6 home games and 5 away games. We had one FBS team on the road (though historically a weak one, it was a game that had bitter rivalry history where there were bragging rights in the mix which always ups the anti). We had one Division II team (one that is moving to FCS and is historically a highly competitive winning D II team). In addition we had a Big Sky team who had been very competitive in the last several years (how were we to know that they would be a part of a perceived "Weak conference" this year and themselves be suffering from coaching, offensive and defensive major changes). We also played a Great West team that had promise of being at least a 6-5 or 5-6 team (since we both played this team to nearly the same point spread it is a wash in comparison). We both had had to play our entire conference schedule regardless of their "perceived talent weaknesses." When a team schedules a year of football, it never knows for sure what type of talent level it will encounter when that year rolls around.

Now let us see the flip side of this comparsion. Montana played 8 conference games and just like McNeese how would Montana know that its own conference would turn out to be perceived as "Weak" by others across the FCS network. For their 3 out of conference games, Montana choose the same Great West team (Southern Utah) that McNeese did and enjoyed the same approximate point spread (though McNeese did beat them by one more point than Montana did) and they played them at their home stadium, while McNeese traveled to Southern Utah. This could be important since it would seem that the Montana gentleman's (and comrades) whole reason for caring about being #2 instead of #3 is over who has the right to play all three playoff games at home field until going to Chattanooga. I have to infer that they feel that playing at home gives you some advantage (other than money). Moving on here, Montana choose a team that typically does not compete in the playoffs (maybe never has played in the playoff?) for another home non-conference game when it scheduled Albany. McNeese and Montana shared an additional common foe, Portland State. McNeese beat them by 23 pts and Montana beat them by 3 pts (you do the math). Montana scheduled Ft. St. Lewis for its last home non-conference game, and I really know nothing about them so they may be a good D II team, but they are not in transition to FCS like the Division II team McNeese scheduled. Montana did not schedule a FBS team (weak or strong) unlike McNeese.

So tell me, if we are made to split hairs, who at least tried to schedule better out of conference competition?

[GOTOREROS]

Yale knows their place.


As do all FCS teams for the most part...........LOL! xlolx

[AZGrizFan]

all that's a moot point when McNeese loses in the first round.... xeyebrowx

[sharkeycox]

all that's a moot point when McNeese loses in the first round.... xeyebrowx

Just after da Bears lose to the Kitties Saturday.xcoffeex

[HensRock]

Fordham from no-where to #19?
C'mon people, just because they lock up a AQ doesn't mean they all of a sudden are a top-25 team. The PL is down this year.

[pokum88]

We can't win in the 1st round, why even show up, we forfiet.

[USDFAN_55]

Fordham from no-where to #19?
C'mon people, just because they lock up a AQ doesn't mean they all of a sudden are a top-25 team. The PL is down this year.

If the PL is down this year, why are many considering Colgate a legitimate play-off possibility?

[danefan]

If the PL is down this year, why are many considering Colgate a legitimate play-off possibility?


xlolx xlolx Oh logic ruins everyone's day again.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Heck Im just thrilled to see LU getting votes. this team went 1-10 two years ago and was an absolute laughingstock for many years

[AZGrizFan]

Heck Im just thrilled to see LU getting votes. this team went 1-10 two years ago and was an absolute laughingstock for many years

Oh, don't kid yourself. We're still laughing at you. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx




;)

[bjtheflamesfan]

True, but you gotta admit that there is definite improvement there even from 2 years ago

[Fordham]

Fordham from no-where to #19?
C'mon people, just because they lock up a AQ doesn't mean they all of a sudden are a top-25 team. The PL is down this year. Does it make a difference if you know that we were actually #23 last week? Throw in a couple of losses by teams ahead of us and I'm pretty sure that's how it happened since we were on a bye.

Overall, I could care less since we're in regardless of whether or not we're ranked but am only responding since I took "out of nowhere" to mean that we went from unranked to #19 in one fell swoop (and a bye week no less!), which isn't true.

[URMite]

Neiter vote was from a fan of the respective team.

Yeah, but were they from each other? "You vote for my team and I'll vote for yours" [strangers on a train] xwhistlex

[blur2005]

Yeah, wasn't the Patriot League down last year, too? I'm sensing a pattern. xeyebrowx

[DSUHornet]

You obviously haven't seen Yale play.

i've seen Yale, trust me. impressed, but not too much.

[danefan]

i've seen Yale, trust me. impressed, but not too much.

I've seen them too. Good team-without a doubt. Top 10-no way!

[appfan2008]

i have yale about 15th... definately not as high as they are in the poll

[Fordham]

Yeah, wasn't the Patriot League down last year, too? I'm sensing a pattern. xeyebrowx I've said it was in other posts here, so it would be tough for me to argue otherwise. I don't have much doubt that this is what helped our young team have the time to build the confidence that it took to win it this year. That said, we'll find out in round 1 whether or not we belong or get dusted, so this will all take care of itself.

For what it's worth, Lafayette played UMASS very tough in Rd 1 last year, imo, so I don't know if I'd say that last season was definitively a down year for us. Our collective OOC records have certainly gotten worse the past two years (at least I think that's true - haven't really gone back to pore through the details), but in my opinion that has alot to do with what I believe has been the rapid improvement of NEC football (Ivies too). I think Albany, Monmouth, Stony Brook and CCSU's early wins last year gave the impression that the league was worse than it was because the respect accorded those schools was very low at the beginning of last year when everyone (PL fans included) were bemoaning these losses as a sign that the league is doomed as long as we're non scholarship. By the end of the year, wins like Albany v. Delaware and CCSU v. GS had started to elevate the perception of the NEC (imo) but I don't know that people then felt that the PL wasn't struggling even though they were now accepting that NEC schools were much better than expected. Seeing Lafayette go out and play UMASS tough (again, imo) was an indication to me that the league was likely very similar to how it had been in previous years. Again, that's all conjecture (or maybe a rationalization).

Overall, I couldn't give a crap whether or not we're ranked, or where we're ranked, since we'll get a chance to see on the field in Rd 1. Teams not getting the AQ, though, understandably care about a heckuva lot more than me.

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

Ok. I have not previously bothered to respond to this who is #2 and who is #3 stuff, but since the gentleman from Montana (along with a herd/family/school/whatever of other Montana faithful) keeps bringing it up I feel inclined to give one viewpoint (mine). It seems strange to even have this discussion with a Montana fan as McNeese and Montana fans typically have nothing but respect for the other and rarely get into a pissing war.

Let me first say, it just doesn't matter that much who is rated what. True, having home games is perhaps a slight advantage and it provides some income to the school. However, if you want to get to the "Big Dance" you have to beat everyone in your bracket or beat the ones that beat others in your bracket. So I say "Bring EM ON" to the tune of anyone, anywhere, anytime!

Other than that little tirade, I offer the following:

When McNeese made out their schedule it appeared to be a decent competitive schedule. We had 6 home games and 5 away games. We had one FBS team on the road (though historically a weak one, it was a game that had bitter rivalry history where there were bragging rights in the mix which always ups the anti). We had one Division II team (one that is moving to FCS and is historically a highly competitive winning D II team). In addition we had a Big Sky team who had been very competitive in the last several years (how were we to know that they would be a part of a perceived "Weak conference" this year and themselves be suffering from coaching, offensive and defensive major changes). We also played a Great West team that had promise of being at least a 6-5 or 5-6 team (since we both played this team to nearly the same point spread it is a wash in comparison). We both had had to play our entire conference schedule regardless of their "perceived talent weaknesses." When a team schedules a year of football, it never knows for sure what type of talent level it will encounter when that year rolls around.

Now let us see the flip side of this comparsion. Montana played 8 conference games and just like McNeese how would Montana know that its own conference would turn out to be perceived as "Weak" by others across the FCS network. For their 3 out of conference games, Montana choose the same Great West team (Southern Utah) that McNeese did and enjoyed the same approximate point spread (though McNeese did beat them by one more point than Montana did) and they played them at their home stadium, while McNeese traveled to Southern Utah. This could be important since it would seem that the Montana gentleman's (and comrades) whole reason for caring about being #2 instead of #3 is over who has the right to play all three playoff games at home field until going to Chattanooga. I have to infer that they feel that playing at home gives you some advantage (other than money). Moving on here, Montana choose a team that typically does not compete in the playoffs (maybe never has played in the playoff?) for another home non-conference game when it scheduled Albany. McNeese and Montana shared an additional common foe, Portland State. McNeese beat them by 23 pts and Montana beat them by 3 pts (you do the math). Montana scheduled Ft. St. Lewis for its last home non-conference game, and I really know nothing about them so they may be a good D II team, but they are not in transition to FCS like the Division II team McNeese scheduled. Montana did not schedule a FBS team (weak or strong) unlike McNeese.

So tell me, if we are made to split hairs, who at least tried to schedule better out of conference competition?

IF you would read my other posts...i'm not trying to argue who is better, I'm trying to figure out what has made Montana drop below McNeese when they were previously ranked ahead...I'm not trying to start a pi$$ing match xnonox just askin a question. I have lots of respect for McNeese and their fans, however I do believe you are mischaracterising what i'm talking about. xpeacex

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

It is fixed now. Hard to respect cherry pickers who choose to dwell on a typo. LOL

In all honesty it's just the OCD in me...didn't mean to rile ya that much ;) xpeacex

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

Since we can't see every game...and really know our conference and not yours (I think that fair to say about all of us)...what else do we use...

I bet you think Montana is #1 and the BSC is tougher than other conferences...I'm not going to debate that topic here...

I feel CAA is stronger...Gateway folks feel they are and UNI is #1...

So, between what we know and read (such as computer ranking that don't have Montana as high as you feel they should be) we come up with our opinions...and vote...

That's why I care about what a computer ranking says...it's one element in a decision...xpeacex

Actually in all honesty I don't think UM should be #1 I think NDSU or UNI should be...and as far as the BSC goes while i don't think it's quite the cream puff conference everyone claims it is I'll be the first to admit it has slipped the past few years. I'm not talking about how high I think they should be I'm talking about what exactly makes a team drop when they don't lose a game.

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

Ok. It makes sense if you subscribe to the traditional view that a team shouldn't drop in the polls as long as it doesn't lose. But that tradition is one reason (among others) why I like power ratings better. I think that, each week, teams should be assessed based on what's happened to that point of the current season. Where each team was ranked the prior week, to me, should not be a factor at all.

Gotcha...

[terrierbob]

Thanks, I think it is hard to vote for a 5-5 team. I didn't


Do you have another game? And BTW, why the heck are we finished with the regular season? Maybe we didn't have a bye week...

[JTCowboy]

No I'm not...I'm saying overall McNeese's SOS taken as a whole is no more or less impressive than Montana's

Something we take flack for and no one seems to mention about McNeese on AGS lol

By your own admission the schedules are as equally weak or strong. The difference is that McNeese has only had one close game and that game could have been 38-14 just as easily as it was 27-21. Does it really matter that much?xpeacex

[griz_fan_in_SanDiego]

By your own admission the schedules are as equally weak or strong. The difference is that McNeese has only had one close game and that game could have been 38-14 just as easily as it was 27-21. Does it really matter that much?xpeacex

No not really...just a curious type of person xlolx xpeacex

[JTCowboy]

all that's a moot point when McNeese loses in the first round.... xeyebrowx


Eight teams will lose in the first round. You could be one of those just as easily as us or anyone else. AGS :D

[ngineer]

I think Furman should be in the top 30...they have not given up on a season that is not up to their normal standards, and had a big win against a top 10 team. The poll itself looks pretty good to me and 20-30 matters little as we will all be sitting at home watching the others play in Dec.


Furman's win over GSU was a great testament to their players and coaches who haven't packed it in. They've had a very disappointing season, and yet, in late November pull off a big win. I hope our players do the same.xthumbsupx

[EmeryZach]

I would have loved to have seen a UMass vs. Richmond game this year. Would have been a good one. I agree with them being ahead of us in the polls.

[AZGrizFan]

Yeah, but were they from each other? "You vote for my team and I'll vote for yours" [strangers on a train] xwhistlex

I believe the Montana 1st place vote is from a PSU voter who has had them #1 all year. I don't know who is voting McNeese #1. I originally had Montana #1, dropped them as low as #5 (despite winning), and now have them back at #3. :)

[JALMOND]

So is this "homer" rule not in effect anymore or is there really someone who is not a UM fan or a McNeese fan that has them #1?

OK, I'll admit it. My top 5 approved...

1. MONTANA
2. Northern Iowa
3. North Dakota State
4. McNeese State
5. Southern Illinois

As I stated on a previous thread, I had Montana at #1 all year except for when Appalachian State beat Michigan and, whereas a lot of teams have made cases for #1, Montana has not given me a reason to take them off of the top spot. It is not easy to go through a conference season undefeated (ask any SoCon or CAA fan), and to go through the Big Sky, Gateway, Great West or Southland undefeated deserves some praise. We are not talking about the Ivy or the Pioneer conferences, these ones are pretty tough. At this point, a W is a good thing, regardless of the point spread.

[Gil Dobie]

It is not easy to go through a conference season undefeated (ask any SoCon or CAA fan), and to go through the Big Sky, Gateway, Great West or Southland undefeated deserves some praise.

I have no problem seeing Montana at #1, or for that matter, any undefeated team from the top 5 at #1.

[89Hen]

It is not easy to go through a conference season undefeated (ask any SoCon or CAA fan), and to go through the Big Sky, Gateway, Great West or Southland undefeated deserves some praise.
Doesn't happen too often. Since 2000...

CAA
2006 Massachusetts 8-0

SoCon
2003 Wofford 8-0
2006 Appalachian State 8-0

Gateway
2004 Southern Illinois 7-0
2007 Northern Iowa 6-0

Big Sky
2000 Montana 8-0
2001 Montana 7-0
2006 Montana 8-0
2007....

Southland
2000 Troy 7-0
2002 McNeese 6-0
2003 McNeese 5-0
2007....

[URMite]

I would have loved to have seen a UMass vs. Richmond game this year. Would have been a good one. I agree with them being ahead of us in the polls.

Hey, the good news is you still might. xthumbsupx

I would like to wait until round 3 or 4 though...

[GaSouthern]

way to go SDSU!