Football's Vanishing Act

[DFW HOYA]

Des Moines Register article discusses the state of non-scholarship football amidst the MAAC's demise.

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071109/SPORTS020402/711090379/1091/SPORTS02

[DetroitFlyer]

Nice find Hoya! It is interesting that FCS, "non-scholarship" football does not do well on the east coast.... Frankly, I think that is just an excuse for schools that do not want to continue football....

I recall a former Saint Peters player saying that football players were there on track scholarships.... We all know that academic and need based aid is available....

What does a Georgetown fan think? Has it been any easier to recruit kids to GT in the PL as compared to your time in the MAAC?

[henfan]

Alas, "non scholarship" football is alive and well at the Division III level. xthumbsupx

Steve Loney's take on FBS pretenders is 'interesting' in light of his own team's place in the FCS:

"The arms race is getting so big in Division I ... there are a lot of I-A programs that have no business being I-A," he said. "Seriously, they have to cut so many corners and be so cheap about things that they say they're I-A, but they're really not."

[Seahawks Fan]

Good article. Thanks. xthumbsupx

[McNeese_beat]

Des Moines Register article discusses the state of non-scholarship football amidst the MAAC's demise.

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071109/SPORTS020402/711090379/1091/SPORTS02

That's a bad trend for the sport.

Schools are going to continue to want to be part of D-I because of the money and recognition available at that level. But not all these schools are going to be willing or able to finance 63-scholarship or 85-scholarship football.

There needs to be a healthy number on-scholly D-Is, otherwise, it'll be easier for some schools just to drop the sport. It's amazing to me how many good football people come out of these programs and the experience of playing college football contributes to their future careers or involvement in the game. If bunches of schools drop football, that's hundreds and hundreds of people who won't have the college football experience and are less likely to be active in the game later, either professionally or in support roles or just as fans.

[danefan]

That's a bad trend for the sport.

Schools are going to continue to want to be part of D-I because of the money and recognition available at that level. But not all these schools are going to be willing or able to finance 63-scholarship or 85-scholarship football.

There needs to be a healthy number on-scholly D-Is, otherwise, it'll be easier for some schools just to drop the sport. It's amazing to me how many good football people come out of these programs and the experience of playing college football contributes to their future careers or involvement in the game. If bunches of schools drop football, that's hundreds and hundreds of people who won't have the college football experience and are less likely to be active in the game later, either professionally or in support roles or just as fans.

Right onxthumbsupx I find it hard to believe that any university administration would think that having a football team is a bad thing for their students. I know it happens at a lot of schools, but it just baffles me.

[DFW HOYA]

What does a Georgetown fan think? Has it been any easier to recruit kids to GT in the PL as compared to your time in the MAAC?

Easier might not be the right word. It's just different.

To recruit in the MAAC in the 1990's, schools looked at prospects who were generally looking to continue their football careers, but were off the radar of other Eastern schools, usually as a result of size or strength.

The Patriot recruit is on someone's radar, whether Ivy, CAA, or on some cases, a I-A offer. The starting left guard this season at West Virginia (Greg Isdaner, 6-4, 315) was thought to be so committed to Georgetown that he was listed on the team's pre-season roster, but the offer of a full ride late in the process with a larger school sealed the deal. He's a good kid and I don't think he misses the bright lights (or lack thereof) at the Field With No Name (aka "Multi-Sport Field") when he's playing on Thursday night ESPN before 65,000 people against Louisville.

In that sense, PL schools have the name recognition but must work a little smarter to get the kid who will have opportunities at a CAA or Ivy school to consider playing there. And, as discussed on this board, Georgetown has not been successful at this for a variety of reasons--some within their control, others outside it.

The second variable in this discussion is that the nonscholarship community, which once was very strong in the east, has evaporated. Where there were once 18-20 nonscholarship prograsms to schedule and recruit among, the evolution of the NEC and the attrition of MAAC schools leaves just three N-S programs to recruit against schools with comparatively more resources. Iona could once be seen as an attractive nonscholarship option to a recruit also considering Siena, St. Peter's, St. John's, Fairfield, etc. and now they're competing with 30-grant programs for that same prospect. It makes it difficult for a school to want to get into this game when they're behind the line to start.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think comparing the MAAC to the PFL isn't really a fair comparison.

Despite what some AGS members seem to think, the biggest difference between the MAAC and PFL has been leadership. Patty Viverito has been committed to keeping non-scholarship football alive, while the powers-that-be in the MAAC always seemed to think of it as an ugly stepchild. You can call the PFL non-scholarship teams cost-containment, but the MAAC schools (at least near the end) were generally getting outspent 2:1 by the PFL schools.

I think the angle that the M:F ratio has something to do with it is simply an excuse. If the Fairfield's, St. Peter's, Siena's and Canisius' wanted football, they would have found a way to make it happen. Even the interview with the Bradley person that it was a "financial drain" really rings hollow. Think the men's and women's rowing teams aren't a financial drain? News flash: these are not supposed to be moneymaking opportunities!

One piece I found interesting was the pressure of not having an on-campus facility to play football, or (in St. Peter's case, maybe Bradley's as well) having to pay rent to use a field. Now that was something that could be a problem. Not sure what the case was with Siena, Fairfield or others.

I tend to agree with Coach Mariani of Iona on this one:

[
Iona coach Fred Mariani said the league's erosion is causing the Gaels to play a tougher schedule against scholarship opponents.

"Part of me says I wish the league was back as a whole," said Mariani, whose team is 7-2 and ranked No. 5 in the Sports Network Mid-Major Poll as of Nov. 5. "And then there's the other part that says, you know what, every Saturday we're going to have a football team to coach."

But he doesn't agree with some of the reasons MAAC schools are dropping football.

"They know their situation better than I do, but if you're asking me my opinion, I thought it was absurd that they dropped football," he said. "Because they weren't spending a lot of money in keeping their programs, it wasn't that big of a deal."

[Seahawks Fan]

I know this has been discussed before, but let's try again: What do we think will become of Iona, Lasalle and Marist? The PFL guys will say they are going to the PFL, but isn't it odd that there has been no announcement on that? Is Marist still a consideration for the PL? Is Lasalle even a player next year? What do you think? xconfusedx

[danefan]

Siena had plenty of opportunity and $$$$ to continue football and upgrade their facilities. Sure, they don't have a football field, but they have the land and they could have built a stadium had they wanted to. Its just an excuse in my opinion.

Some admins just don't want football at their school. They try to rationalize it in many different ways. I sometimes feel like those people were not treated well by football players during their own college years.xcoffeex xsmiley_wix

[danefan]

I know this has been discussed before, but let's try again: What do we think will become of Iona, Lasalle and Marist? The PFL guys will say they are going to the PFL, but isn't it odd that there has been no announcement on that? Is Marist still a consideration for the PL? Is Lasalle even a player next year? What do you think? xconfusedx



What arose, Viverito said, is a proposal that would add four teams to the PFL, an effort to shore up its viability and offset the loss of Eastern teams. A 12-team PFL would likely contain the only teams still playing at the non-scholarship level. Viverito expects a decision by the middle of this month.


I think they are probably talking about those teams

[Seawolf97]

I really hope the survivors of the MAAC find a home in 2008. It would be a shame if Iona and Marist fold -Lasalle I think will go the way of St Peter's they just cant get it together. I feel quite lucky being a Stonybrook fan as their program has 100% support from the top down as we move toward a full scholarship team.:)