2023 Baseball Writers Hall of Fame Ballot [Archive]

caribbeanhen

January 19th, 2023, 12:36 AM

I beg to differ on Jones. He is HOF worthy, but no one comes close to Willie Mays. I also think Garry Maddox was a great defensive player.

I don’t know if Jones is HOF worthy but his defense was spectacular

https://www.cooperstowncred.com/andruw-jones-best-defensive-center-fielder-ever/

FUBeAR

January 19th, 2023, 02:09 AM

FUBeAR, a Braves fan since the 70’s, moved back to ATL just ahead of Jones becoming the Braves every day CF’er in ‘98 and watched him play hundreds of games over the next 10 years.

Don’t know if he’s HoF-worthy in the eyes and computers of those that decide such things. Don’t really care. With Dale Murphy not in Cooperstown & Roman Gabriel not in Canton, FUBeAR already has similar feelings for those Halls of Fame as he fears are going to further solidify within him regarding the FCS Playoffs.

Anyway…Jones was an absolute treat to watch, but as fans are wont to do, we kind of all took his work in Centerfield for granted. It was great fun to watch, but we kinda came to expect it and didn’t have a good perspective of how sensational it was. FUBeAR used to enjoy watching his Offensive work more because, though not as much of a sure thing, the things he did at the plate and on the base paths were always clutch, impressive, and just darn fun to watch because he took such joy in playing the game…usually. Don’t think it was much fun for him after he took the cash and headed to LA.

Anyway - it will be the HoF’s loss if they don’t include him. He’s already in FUBeAR’s Hall of Fame and that’s all that really matters to FUBeAR.

Gil Dobie

January 19th, 2023, 06:55 AM

Ill go with Jones, he did things Mays never did

ask Glavine Smoltz Maddux

Jones may of done things Mays didn't do, but didn't do anything Mays couldn't do.

Glavine Smoltz Maddux weren't old enough to watch Mays. I saw Mays play, and Jones, ask anyone who saw both play.

caribbeanhen

January 19th, 2023, 07:22 AM

Jones may of done things Mays didn't do, but didn't do anything Mays couldn't do.

Glavine Smoltz Maddux weren't old enough to watch Mays. I saw Mays play, and Jones, ask anyone who saw both play.

I did ... me

Mays was indeed special but Jones took defense to a new level.. He robbed hits coming in on ball every night and his aggressiveness on charging ball and diving head first robbing singles has never been seen before... he did it so frequently it became routine

his really spectacular plays are the ones where’ he’s going up on wall in spectacular fashion

I know Mays and the basket catch was a natural and made it look to easy, but he was no A Jones with the glove... you had too see this guy night after night to fully appreciate

Gil Dobie

January 19th, 2023, 07:48 AM

I did ... me

Mays was indeed special but Jones took defense to a new level.. He robbed hits coming in on ball every night and his aggressiveness on charging ball and diving head first robbing singles has never been seen before... he did it so frequently it became routine

his really spectacular plays are the ones where’ he’s going up on wall in spectacular fashion

I know Mays and the basket catch was a natural and made it look to easy, but he was no A Jones with the glove... you had too see this guy night after night to fully appreciate

Some of those spectacular plays by Jones, would have been routine for Mays. We saw Mays play in his 30's, and he could out run Jones at that age.

caribbeanhen

January 19th, 2023, 07:56 AM

Some of those spectacular plays by Jones, would have been routine for Mays. We saw Mays play in his 30's, and he could out run Jones at that age.

lets not get crazy.... Did you read the article I posted ? I’m not a big modern stat guy, I use my eyes .... check out the article

Jones did tail off in his thirties at the plate so I’ll give you that, if he didn’t his name would of been up their with the all time greats

Gil Dobie

January 19th, 2023, 01:45 PM

I don’t know if Jones is HOF worthy but his defense was spectacular

https://www.cooperstowncred.com/andruw-jones-best-defensive-center-fielder-ever/

2 of the pictures in that article, where Jones is diving, Mays would have been standing there for a basket catch.

dbackjon

January 19th, 2023, 05:47 PM

Pretty weak class overall.

Wouldn't be surprised if no one was elected

caribbeanhen

January 19th, 2023, 09:00 PM

2 of the pictures in that article, where Jones is diving, Mays would have been standing there for a basket catch.

I get it Gil, The Say Hey Kid is your guy but Jones was best ever

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/andruw-jones-is-one-of-the-best-defensive-outfielders-ever-so-why-doesnt-he-have-more-hall-of-fame-support/amp/

Jones was so legendary for both his exceptional jumps on fly balls and how smooth he was in tracking him. That is to say, if you only saw a handful of games on TV a year with Jones in center, he made it look so easy it might've hurt the perception (several of the scouts and former players mentioned this). He didn't look like he was going at a dead sprint to make a diving catch in the gap when others might've had to do that. Instead, he was already well ahead of the ball, skating seemingly effortlessly to what he made into a routine catch. Routine for Jones, but a spectacular play for merely a great defender in center and a double or triple for even the average outfielder.

ngineer

January 19th, 2023, 09:45 PM

Jones may of done things Mays didn't do, but didn't do anything Mays couldn't do.

Glavine Smoltz Maddux weren't old enough to watch Mays. I saw Mays play, and Jones, ask anyone who saw both play.

I saw Mays play many times. As a kid, it was the only time my Dad would take me to a Phillies game, since the Phil’s were so bad in the late ‘50’s and early ‘60’s. Amazing and he played with such joy. Carribean’s description of the ease Jones played fits for Mays. Speaking of “jumps on the ball”, nothing beats the jump of all time in the 1954 World Series known as the “Wertz Catch”.xpeacexxsmiley_wix

caribbeanhen

January 19th, 2023, 10:20 PM

I saw Mays play many times. As a kid, it was the only time my Dad would take me to a Phillies game, since the Phil’s were so bad in the late ‘50’s and early ‘60’s. Amazing and he played with such joy. Carribean’s description of the ease Jones played fits for Mays. Speaking of “jumps on the ball”, nothing beats the jump of all time in the 1954 World Series known as the “Wertz Catch”.xpeacexxsmiley_wix

I always loved Mays and still do and I have often put that Iconic picture of the Mays catch from the 1954 WS at the Polo Grounds up on the computer. When a young sports hotshot was around, I would ask if they knew who that was and before I was done with them, I made sure they knew The Who, when, where of that catch...many knew of the picture but not much about it but they always seemed interested

I would also show them the oddness of the Polo Grounds and why it was so deep to CF and so cheap down the lines

Gil Dobie

January 20th, 2023, 08:07 AM

I get it Gil, The Say Hey Kid is your guy but Jones was best ever

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/andruw-jones-is-one-of-the-best-defensive-outfielders-ever-so-why-doesnt-he-have-more-hall-of-fame-support/amp/

Jones was so legendary for both his exceptional jumps on fly balls and how smooth he was in tracking him. That is to say, if you only saw a handful of games on TV a year with Jones in center, he made it look so easy it might've hurt the perception (several of the scouts and former players mentioned this). He didn't look like he was going at a dead sprint to make a diving catch in the gap when others might've had to do that. Instead, he was already well ahead of the ball, skating seemingly effortlessly to what he made into a routine catch. Routine for Jones, but a spectacular play for merely a great defender in center and a double or triple for even the average outfielder.

Just recognize greatness. IMO, Mays was the best, but I don't think we will ever agree. Mays was not my guy. I'm an American League fan, just remember some great catches Mays made. One of the best was when he and Bobby Bonds collided on the chain link fence at Candlestick, to rob a home run. Mays caught the ball in the collision, laid on Bonds on the ground, barely moving, after the catch, and hung on to the ball.

caribbeanhen

January 20th, 2023, 08:44 AM

Just recognize greatness. IMO, Mays was the best, but I don't think we will ever agree. Mays was not my guy. I'm an American League fan, just remember some great catches Mays made. One of the best was when he and Bobby Bonds collided on the chain link fence at Candlestick, to rob a home run. Mays caught the ball in the collision, laid on Bonds on the ground, barely moving, after the catch, and hung on to the ball.

I have seen that catch

bulldog10jw

January 20th, 2023, 02:15 PM

None of the above. Carlos Beltran should be forever disqualified for taking a called 3rd strike with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th of the 7th game of the NLCS in 2006 with the Mets down a run.

ngineer

January 20th, 2023, 08:28 PM

I always loved Mays and still do and I have often put that Iconic picture of the Mays catch from the 1954 WS at the Polo Grounds up on the computer. When a young sports hotshot was around, I would ask if they knew who that was and before I was done with them, I made sure they knew The Who, when, where of that catch...many knew of the picture but not much about it but they always seemed interested

I would also show them the oddness of the Polo Grounds and why it was so deep to CF and so cheap down the lines

I have blue tie that has the basic architectural diagrams of all the original National League parks, including the Polo Grounds and was by far the weirdest stadium for baseball; even moreso than Crosely in Cincinnati with he uphill terrace in left field.

caribbeanhen

January 20th, 2023, 08:48 PM

[/B]
I have blue tie that has the basic architectural diagrams of all the original National League parks, including the Polo Grounds and was by far the weirdest stadium for baseball; even moreso than Crosely in Cincinnati with he uphill terrace in left field.

I like it! Quirky ballparks are the best thing ever for baseball, the Cookie cutter era was a disaster.

ngineer, you might enjoy this story as told 11 years ago by the Capt of the Coast Guard Cutter that searched for Roberto Clemente 50 years ago now... that flight was doomed and barely cleared the runway and was trying to return to the airport before it crashed

http://cgaclassof61.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-search-for-roberto-clemente.html?m=1

Manny Sanguillen ... you gotta like him

ngineer

January 22nd, 2023, 08:23 PM

I like it! Quirky ballparks are the best thing ever for baseball, the Cookie cutter era was a disaster.

ngineer, you might enjoy this story as told 11 years ago by the Capt of the Coast Guard Cutter that searched for Roberto Clemente 50 years ago now... that flight was doomed and barely cleared the runway and was trying to return to the airport before it crashed

http://cgaclassof61.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-search-for-roberto-clemente.html?m=1

Manny Sanguillen ... you gotta like him

Thanks for the link . Really enjoyed the recap . Clemente was such a wonderful person and an amazing ball player. Saw him at ol’ Connie Mack Stadium throw a laser from deep right to third base to nail a Phillie trying to tag on a fly ball. Despite the Phillie getting thrown out, 21 got a nice hand from the crowd. Thanks.

caribbeanhen

January 22nd, 2023, 09:18 PM

Thanks for the link . Really enjoyed the recap . Clemente was such a wonderful person and an amazing ball player. Saw him at ol’ Connie Mack Stadium throw a laser from deep right to third base to nail a Phillie trying to tag on a fly ball. Despite the Phillie getting thrown out, 21 got a nice hand from the crowd. Thanks.

that sounds like the laser he used in the 1971 WS ... I remember him showing off that arm in Memorial Stadium on a throw to third base and another to home

bonarae

January 24th, 2023, 03:52 PM

Official announcement at 6 PM EST tonight.

Gil Dobie

January 24th, 2023, 05:44 PM

Scott Rolen elected by the writers.

dbackjon

January 24th, 2023, 06:00 PM

Scott Rolen elected by the writers.
The "we need to vote for someone" award

dbackjon

January 24th, 2023, 06:02 PM

Rolen barely made it - 76% of the vote.

Should have been no one.

- - - Updated - - -

Scott Rolen: 297 votes, 76.3%
Todd Helton: 281 votes, 72.2%
Billy Wagner: 265 votes, 68.1%
Andruw Jones: 226 votes, 58.1%
Gary Sheffield: 214 votes, 55%
Carlos Beltrán: 181 votes, 46.5%
Jeff Kent: 181 votes, 46.5% (final year on ballot)
Alex Rodriguez: 139 votes, 35.7%
Manny Ramirez: 129 votes, 33.2%
Omar Vizquel: 76 votes, 19.5%
Andy Pettitte: 66 votes, 17%
Bobby Abreu: 60 votes, 15.4%
Jimmy Rollins: 50 votes, 12.9%
Mark Buehrle: 42 votes, 10.8%
Francisco Rodriguez: 42 votes, 10.8%
Torii Hunter: 27 votes, 6.9 percent

(Players receiving less than 5% will drop off future ballots)

Bronson Arroyo: 1 vote, 0.3%
R.A. Dickey: 1 vote, 0.3%
John Lackey: 1 vote, 0.3%
Mike Napoli: 1 vote, 0.3%
Huston Street: 1 vote, 0.3%
Matt Cain: 0 votes, 0%
Jacoby Ellsbury: 0 votes, 0%
Andre Ethier: 0 votes, 0%
J.J. Hardy: 0 votes, 0%
Jhonny Peralta: 0 votes, 0%
Jered Weaver: 0 votes, 0%
Jayson Werth: 0 votes, 0%

https://www.mlb.com/news/baseball-hall-of-fame-2023-voting

caribbeanhen

January 24th, 2023, 07:24 PM

The "we need to vote for someone" award

agree

Gil Dobie

January 25th, 2023, 03:47 PM

The "we need to vote for someone" award

10th best 3rd basemen since 1950.

caribbeanhen

January 26th, 2023, 08:12 PM

10th best 3rd basemen since 1950.

who are the other 9?

Gil Dobie

January 26th, 2023, 09:36 PM

who are the other 9?

Look up top 10 3b by WAR.

Bisonoline

January 26th, 2023, 09:51 PM

Scott Rolen elected by the writers.

Who????

Gil Dobie

January 26th, 2023, 09:53 PM

Who????

Stat guys have taken over baseball

caribbeanhen

January 26th, 2023, 10:54 PM

Look up top 10 3b by WAR.

nope

OhioHen

January 27th, 2023, 06:47 AM

Look up top 10 3b by WAR.
Wins above replacement is a flawed concept. Joe Dimaggio was replaced by Mickey Mantle. As such, Dimaggio's WAR would've been pretty bad but there's no doubt he deserves to be in the HOF.

Gil Dobie

January 27th, 2023, 07:18 AM

Wins above replacement is a flawed concept. Joe Dimaggio was replaced by Mickey Mantle. As such, Dimaggio's WAR would've been pretty bad but there's no doubt he deserves to be in the HOF.

WAR, good God you all, what is it good for, absolutely nothing. - Edwin Starr

Gil Dobie

January 27th, 2023, 07:22 AM

nope

WAR is what it appears the modern media is using, plus the old fashioned East Coast Bias.

caribbeanhen

January 27th, 2023, 08:05 AM

WAR is what it appears the modern media is using, plus the old fashioned East Coast Bias.

obviously and Scott Rolen is not HOF material

FUBeAR

January 27th, 2023, 04:37 PM

Does having class figure into MLB HoF voting?

https://twitter.com/andruwjones25/status/1618405905321820160

Maybe we can get a recount, if so.

Chalupa Batman

January 27th, 2023, 06:38 PM

Whoever voted for Bronson Arroyo needs their voting privileges revoked.

caribbeanhen

January 27th, 2023, 06:41 PM

Does having class figure into MLB HoF voting?

https://twitter.com/andruwjones25/status/1618405905321820160

Maybe we can get a recount, if so.

Jones would have my vote over Rolen... simply better

ngineer

January 27th, 2023, 08:13 PM

The problem with this year's ballot was a lot of very good to excellent players...but to me, getting into the HOF means having that additional 'it' factor that makes one truly Outstanding in all phases of the game: the 'stir' in the drink that carries a team to key and dramatic wins in the clutch. Most of these guys had very strong suits, but most, maybe with the exception of McGriff, also had a 'hole' or an area that caused them to be a little lacking. Rolen was one of the best defensive third basemen of all time. While he had a few excellent years, he also had a number of 'good' or 'meh' years, offensively. Those in the HOF who had such 'down' years, were able to overcome that with superlative play in other facets, i.e. Schmidt's batting average was fairly pedestrian, but it was very productive in driving in runs and hitting well over 500 HRs, and defensively, he was one of the best all time; imo, second to Brooks Robinson with the glove. I liked a number of guys on this year's list: Rolen, Jones, Abreu and would have been "okay" with them getting in, but not upset if they didn't. "Fame"--the state of being known or talked about by many people, especially on account of notable achievements." [Oxford Dictionary]. Did these guys who just made it or just missed fill that bill? The eye of the beholder.

OhioHen

January 28th, 2023, 06:29 AM

Whoever voted for Bronson Arroyo needs their voting privileges revoked.
There were four other players receiving votes that call the voters' qualifications into even more serious question than the vote for Arroyo.

Chalupa Batman

January 28th, 2023, 10:34 AM

There were four other players receiving votes that call the voters' qualifications into even more serious question than the vote for Arroyo.

Yeah none of the guys that got a single vote deserved it. But at least those other 4 had stretches of elite play, even if they were brief. Arroyo never sniffed being elite so that’s why I singled him out.