Chicago State football .... no, seriously

[Libertine]

Chicago State University has formed an exploratory committee to examine adding D1 football as a sport. If they do add it, ChiSt would be the only D1 football program within the Chicago city limits.

https://wgntv.com/sports/chicago-state-to-explore-the-addition-of-a-division-i-football-program/

[DFW HOYA]

Rinse and repeat. It's a stall tactic to get a conference invite.

[Ridge1982]

Hope it happens. Lindenwood needs them to add to the STL/CHI sports rivalry.

[UAalum72]

They announced a feasibility study fourteen months ago
https://www.extrapointsmb.com/chicago-state-football-study-conference-realignment/

[Go Green]

They announced a feasibility study fourteen months ago
https://www.extrapointsmb.com/chicago-state-football-study-conference-realignment/

For my continuing education, can anyone explain the substantive differences to me between a "feasibility study" and an "exploratory committee"?

[NY Crusader 2010]

If they join the WAC, they could be FBS!!

[UAalum72]

For my continuing education, can anyone explain the substantive differences to me between a "feasibility study" and an "exploratory committee"?
The feasiblity study was conducted by an outside consulting firm. The exploratory committee is in-house - faculty, staff, students, partners, community leaders, and “long-standing stakeholders across all levels of football in and around Chicago.

Of course both have to be told the result desired before they can start.

[Laker]

There is no good reason for this place to be in D1. Either drop to D3 or merge with Governor's State.

[bonarae]

There is no good reason for this place to be in D1. Either drop to D3 or merge with Governor's State.

Governor's State?! Do they play sports at all?

D-III makes more sense for the Cougars lately.

[Laker]

Governor's State?! Do they play sports at all?

D-III makes more sense for the Cougars lately.

The Jaguars are NAIA. Governors State University - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governors_State_University#Athletics)

[taper]

There is no good reason for this place to be in D1. Either drop to D3 or merge with Governor's State.
There's no good reason for this place to even exist. The state pays over a million dollars per graduate to keep the doors open. The school has paid multiple multi-million dollar lawsuits for misconduct.

[ElCid]

There's no good reason for this place to even exist. The state pays over a million dollars per graduate to keep the doors open. The school has paid multiple multi-million dollar lawsuits for misconduct.

They have about 1600 undergrads, which is probably fudged, an endowment of about $5M, which is ridiculous. They are hip deep in corruption and lawsuits. This is probably just a way to splash some money around. They are a poster child for higher education dysfunction.

[Go...gate]

Good. The more the merrier!

[ElonFirefighter]

Would they run the Pistol Offence since they are in Chicago??

[katss07]

If they join the WAC, they could be FBS!!
They just left the WAC so doubt that’s a possibility, even if financials permitted.

[POD Knows]

Good. The more the merrier!Wrong, there is enough garbage in the FCS now and this place is pathetic beyond description. It is barely a college at this point in time.

[nodak651]

There is no good reason for this place to be in D1. Either drop to D3 or merge with Governor's State.

I can think of one. They have a dope basketball arena. Too bad it can't be moved... such a waste.

[ysubigred]

13 member of the MVFC.. why not

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[JacksFan40]

13 member of the MVFC.. why not

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We have enough trash with the addition of Murray State.

[ElCid]

Ever notice that AGS fans somehow feel threatened when teams come into FCS and also when they leave it?

Scenario #1: a new team moves up from D2 or an existing D1 starts a program and AGS people be like, "We've got too many terrible teams in FCS already. They don't belong here."
Scenario #2: an existing FCS team moves up to FBS and AGS folk say, "That's a mistake, they need to stay in FCS where they belong."

It's amazing. Y'all want it both ways and no way at all.

Eh, this may be true at times, but when it's uncalled for given reality, why not speak up. There are bunches of team that have no business moving up a level given funding/support levels. Others it makes perfect sense. Prime examples to FBS are App St and GA SO, Liberty, JMU who all had great support and funding. ODU, Ga St, UMass, UConn? The first two planned it from the get go, but they were not really ready. They were missing key elements of either money or support. All these teams did it for various reasons, but some just should not have moved. Presbyterian is a great example of a school who probably shouldn't have moved up from Div II. NDSU is obviously a great example where all the pieces were in place and it made sense. Those are probably the extreme examples, but there are all sorts of schools in between at various levels of ready and not ready.

Sure, it's their call, but everyone can certainly criticize. And while it used to be, at least it appeared to be, more deliberate, it now seems entirely impulsive the last few years given some schools' situations.

[ST_Lawson]

Eh, this may be true at times, but when it's uncalled for given reality, why not speak up. There are bunches of team that have no business moving up a level given funding/support levels.

Nearby Governors State has twice the enrollment of Chicago State and is in the NAIA Chicagoland Collegiate Athletic Conference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicagoland_Collegiate_Athletic_Conference
If they really want to start up a football team, merge the two schools and build a stadium out at the Gov State campus (they have a TON more room than CSU has and transportation between the two campuses is pretty easy, with metra stops at both campuses on the same line).

[Baron Sardonicus]

13 member of the MVFC.. why not

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I would think their goal is to join the OVC.

[NDSU1980]

Wrong, there is enough garbage in the FCS now and this place is pathetic beyond description. It is barely a college at this point in time.

That's the future of FCS though. Garbage moves in and the good move up to FBS. Just wait a couple years and see how pathetic FCS is.

[NY Crusader 2010]

That's the future of FCS though. Garbage moves in and the good move up to FBS. Just wait a couple years and see how pathetic FCS is.

Some of the garbage will either be moving up to FBS too, or at least try to.

This thread smells like a nothing-burger.

[Ridge1982]

That's the future of FCS though. Garbage moves in and the good move up to FBS. Just wait a couple years and see how pathetic FCS is.
But that garbage could be the next JMU, Georgia Southern, App State, etc. sports are cyclical.

[ysubigred]

I would think their goal is to join the OVC.? Geographicly aligned better with the MVFC.

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[Ridge1982]

? Geographicly aligned better with the MVFC.

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Eastern Illinois and Lindenwood( St. Louis suburb) are in the OVC. Only SIUE doesn’t have football in that I-55 corridor.

[clenz]

That's the future of FCS though. Garbage moves in and the good move up to FBS. Just wait a couple years and see how pathetic FCS is.
JMU left - that's a good program
SHSU left - a good program
Jax State I guess you could put there but truly outside of 2015 they were just another "best of the OVC" program that truly wasn't great.

Who else has left that you'd call the "good moving up"

You can say App State and Georgia Southern were replaced by NDSU and SDSU - I'd say that's a draw to a win for the FCS in the big picture.

Coastal Carolina? I guess maybe? They were such a new program it's tough to say. They were nothing special until the last two or three years.

Kennesaw State? See Jax State but in the ASUN.
Georgia State? Literal laughting stock of the FCS.
UNC-Charlotte? A slightly less PR embarrassment than Georgia State but not really any better.
Liberty? They had a ton of money but even then never did better than 6-5 in the Big South and were never an actual threat to anything palyoff related.
ODU? See Coastal. They were FCS for 4 seasons.
UMASS? Meh
South Alabama - was never actually an FCS program they were started to be FBS and were only FCS for the time required as part of the start up.
UTSA - See South Alabama
Texas State - 3 playoff appearances between 1985 and 2011 when they left. They were a bad FCS program

Then you have to jump all the way back to Western Kentucky and before them it was FIU and FAU who were the same situation as USA and UTSA. Then you're all the way back in the 90s with Marshall, Buffalo, UCONN, MTSU and Boise and it has to be noted Buffalo was a BAAD D3 program that was forced FCS becuse of the Dayton rule with the rest of the PFL who then decided it needed to be FBS/MAC if it was actually going to have the sport.

Look at the programs being rumored to be the next to move -
Eastern Kentucky- was last truly relevant in the 80s
Central Arkansas - was D2 until like 7 years ago
Tarleton State - still in a D2 transition
SFA - they have had moments of above average since their 1989 title game, which was vacated, but it's not about quality of a program.

Even SHSU, while they have won games, isn't actually positioned to compete at the FBS level. Same with Kennesaw.

It's not about program quality for moving up and hasn't been for a VERY long time. CCU, Georgia State, Charlotte, and ODU weren't picked because "quality" they were picked because location. The idea that the "best are leaving and being replaced by trash" is something NDSu fans love to use to justify their anger at the FCS but it's not really the case. Overall the FCS "average" is the same as it's been for decades truly. App State and Georgia Southern might have been about quality - but it was as much about location and the Sun Belts vision at the time.

[ElCid]

JMU left - that's a good program
SHSU left - a good program
Jax State I guess you could put there but truly outside of 2015 they were just another "best of the OVC" program that truly wasn't great.

Who else has left that you'd call the "good moving up"

You can say App State and Georgia Southern were replaced by NDSU and SDSU - I'd say that's a draw to a win for the FCS in the big picture.

Coastal Carolina? I guess maybe? They were such a new program it's tough to say. They were nothing special until the last two or three years.

Kennesaw State? See Jax State but in the ASUN.
Georgia State? Literal laughting stock of the FCS.
UNC-Charlotte? A slightly less PR embarrassment than Georgia State but not really any better.
Liberty? They had a ton of money but even then never did better than 6-5 in the Big South and were never an actual threat to anything palyoff related.
ODU? See Coastal. They were FCS for 4 seasons.
UMASS? Meh
South Alabama - was never actually an FCS program they were started to be FBS and were only FCS for the time required as part of the start up.
UTSA - See South Alabama
Texas State - 3 playoff appearances between 1985 and 2011 when they left. They were a bad FCS program

Then you have to jump all the way back to Western Kentucky and before them it was FIU and FAU who were the same situation as USA and UTSA. Then you're all the way back in the 90s with Marshall, Buffalo, UCONN, MTSU and Boise and it has to be noted Buffalo was a BAAD D3 program that was forced FCS becuse of the Dayton rule with the rest of the PFL who then decided it needed to be FBS/MAC if it was actually going to have the sport.

Look at the programs being rumored to be the next to move -
Eastern Kentucky- was last truly relevant in the 80s
Central Arkansas - was D2 until like 7 years ago
Tarleton State - still in a D2 transition
SFA - they have had moments of above average since their 1989 title game, which was vacated, but it's not about quality of a program.

Even SHSU, while they have won games, isn't actually positioned to compete at the FBS level. Same with Kennesaw.

It's not about program quality for moving up and hasn't been for a VERY long time. CCU, Georgia State, Charlotte, and ODU weren't picked because "quality" they were picked because location. The idea that the "best are leaving and being replaced by trash" is something NDSu fans love to use to justify their anger at the FCS but it's not really the case. Overall the FCS "average" is the same as it's been for decades truly. App State and Georgia Southern might have been about quality - but it was as much about location and the Sun Belts vision at the time.

Not a bad rundown except for one point. I think Liberty is actually a better FBS team than they were an FCS team. Maybe CCU as well. All the others are as good as you would expect. Many have had a good year here and there but "most," at least the good ones while FCS, peaked soon after their move. A couple exceptions being Central FL and Marshall.

[clenz]

Not a bad rundown except for one point. I think Liberty is actually a better FBS team than they were an FCS team. Maybe CCU as well. All the others are as good as you would expect. Many have had a good year here and there but "most," at least the good ones while FCS, peaked soon after their move. A couple exceptions being Central FL and Marshall.
Correct. Georgia State is absolutely a better FBS program than FCS. They didn't get an invite on being good though, which is what the "FCS SUCKS BECAUSE OF MOVE UPS" crowd (specifically NDSU fans) love to spout. Coastal is a better FBS program than FCS program, also true. Coastal was in no position to actually make the move though. They might have been in the infant stages of planning it but their admin got a Sun Belt invite based on location and we "**** it, move and we'll figure it out later" and they mostly have. Maybe SHSU makes the same kind of post-move commitment, though I'll believe it when I see it. Liberty is better at the FBS level because they moved to a level that actually let them flex the money. It's amazing all that money couldn't be used at the FCS level but is actually useful at the FBS level, even if TBD on how far it will actually get them.

I get the general sentiment about losing the "name programs" out of the FCS. I largely agree with the sentiment when I see programs like Long Island, Utah Tech, North Alabama, etc., come in to the FCS, but then I remember they are replacing programs that largely were one or two years of being good and years of meh before that.

The FBS moves haven't been about quality almost ever. Look at the mass exodus in the 90s of programs that now make up the MAC and most of the Sun Belt. They weren't amazing programs. As I mentioned, Buffalo was D3 until they weren't allowed to be then they were a horrific FCS program and moved MAC. It has always been about geography and conference identities trying to be filled.

App State and Georgia Southern are the only "modern" moves that were about quality, and even then I'd argue they were a geography/identity move by the Sun Belt who just also happened to be good at the FCS level. Maybe JMU was a quality program addition given that the SBC already had its identity sorted out and in adding one more program wanted one of strength. Though I'd argue it was at least as much geography/market with them as well.
CUSA expansion is the one exception to that as they've called anyone and everyone willing to listen to try to survive - and were told to kick rocks by 99% of the schools they called.

[clenz]

EDIT - Since I can't edit my post above, this is what I wanted to add to it as an additional thought.

From a Valley perspective: there's a reason Missouri State has been mentioned/rumored at every Sun Belt/CUSA turn for a decade (or more at this point). It's not because they are a world-beater program. Bobby P is the best that program has done since the 1980s, and he was 18-15 in 3 years and only 1 season was over .500.

They have all the money, they have the location and facilities that are on part with the upper levels of the G5 for every sport they offer. They have just lacked the leadership to get them there and "finish" those negotiations.

[WestCoastAggie]

JMU left - that's a good program
SHSU left - a good program
Jax State I guess you could put there but truly outside of 2015 they were just another "best of the OVC" program that truly wasn't great.

Who else has left that you'd call the "good moving up"

You can say App State and Georgia Southern were replaced by NDSU and SDSU - I'd say that's a draw to a win for the FCS in the big picture.

Coastal Carolina? I guess maybe? They were such a new program it's tough to say. They were nothing special until the last two or three years.

Kennesaw State? See Jax State but in the ASUN.
Georgia State? Literal laughting stock of the FCS.
UNC-Charlotte? A slightly less PR embarrassment than Georgia State but not really any better.
Liberty? They had a ton of money but even then never did better than 6-5 in the Big South and were never an actual threat to anything palyoff related.
ODU? See Coastal. They were FCS for 4 seasons.
UMASS? Meh
South Alabama - was never actually an FCS program they were started to be FBS and were only FCS for the time required as part of the start up.
UTSA - See South Alabama
Texas State - 3 playoff appearances between 1985 and 2011 when they left. They were a bad FCS program

Then you have to jump all the way back to Western Kentucky and before them it was FIU and FAU who were the same situation as USA and UTSA. Then you're all the way back in the 90s with Marshall, Buffalo, UCONN, MTSU and Boise and it has to be noted Buffalo was a BAAD D3 program that was forced FCS becuse of the Dayton rule with the rest of the PFL who then decided it needed to be FBS/MAC if it was actually going to have the sport.

Look at the programs being rumored to be the next to move -
Eastern Kentucky- was last truly relevant in the 80s
Central Arkansas - was D2 until like 7 years ago
Tarleton State - still in a D2 transition
SFA - they have had moments of above average since their 1989 title game, which was vacated, but it's not about quality of a program.

Even SHSU, while they have won games, isn't actually positioned to compete at the FBS level. Same with Kennesaw.

It's not about program quality for moving up and hasn't been for a VERY long time. CCU, Georgia State, Charlotte, and ODU weren't picked because "quality" they were picked because location. The idea that the "best are leaving and being replaced by trash" is something NDSu fans love to use to justify their anger at the FCS but it's not really the case. Overall the FCS "average" is the same as it's been for decades truly. App State and Georgia Southern might have been about quality - but it was as much about location and the Sun Belts vision at the time.

Many of the schools you mentioned have sizable enrollments and generate millions in student fees from these students.

The financials matter more than success in revenue sports, I suppose.

[WestCoastAggie]

It's almost as if we're seeing a gradual shuffling of the sub divisions based upon enrollment and revenue.

[clenz]

Many of the schools you mentioned have sizable enrollments and generate millions in student fees from these students.

The financials matter more than success in revenue sports, I suppose.
Also true.

Which is why SHSU is such an outlier, but CUSA was desperate and SHSU was willing to say yes.... on top of Liberty being so desperate to be in a conference they are willing to cover a buttload of expenses for everyone else.

[bonarae]

New update:

Their BOT approved a planned public fundraising campaign and if successful, 2025 is the earliest year for the Cougars to join the FCS.

[POD Knows]

New update:

Their BOT approved a planned public fundraising campaign and if successful, 2025 is the earliest year for the Cougars to join the FCS.Is this supposed to be good news, maybe we should have a thread that highlights all the crap that drags the FCS down and this ABSOLUTELY helps drag the FCS into the gutter.

[bonarae]

Is this supposed to be good news, maybe we should have a thread that highlights all the crap that drags the FCS down and this ABSOLUTELY helps drag the FCS into the gutter.

I agree. Let's start a new thread regarding all the bad FCS has to offer... xrulesx

[BisonFan02]

Is this supposed to be good news, maybe we should have a thread that highlights all the crap that drags the FCS down and this ABSOLUTELY helps drag the FCS into the gutter.

Chicago State sounds like another bus trip team for the MVC bouncy ball crew.

[JacksFan40]

Chicago State sounds like another bus trip team for the MVC bouncy ball crew.

I pray the MVFC doesn't extend an invite to them over someone like St. Thomas.

Where are they even going to play? At a local high school or at a 3% full Soldier Field?

[DFW HOYA]

I pray the MVFC doesn't extend an invite to them over someone like St. Thomas.

Where are they even going to play? At a local high school or at a 3% full Soldier Field?

Probably Gately Stadium, a high school field on 103rd St about a mile south of the campus.

That said, Chicago State isn't very good at commitments like this.

[ST_Lawson]

Probably Gately Stadium, a high school field on 103rd St about a mile south of the campus.

There's worse stadiums in the FCS already. Gately has turf, no track, and has room to expand a bit too if they ever end up doing this and are able to work out an agreement with Chicago Public Schools (I think that's who actually owns the stadium). They also have a bit of parking right next to it and a Metra stop a block west.

That being said, Chicago State adding FCS football is still just about the dumbest idea I've heard in a long time.

[Libertine]

Chicago State adding FCS football is still just about the dumbest idea I've heard in a long time.


Chicago State has a current enrollment of approximately 3,000 students and is largely a commuter school. Adding football and more women’s sports could add 210 student-athletes and expand the school’s reach, Carroll said.

They're looking at it as an enrollment boost specifically. If history is any indicator, this type of approach to starting FCS programs usually ends up -- sooner or later -- in the Pioneer League.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

There's no good reason for this place to even exist. The state pays over a million dollars per graduate to keep the doors open. The school has paid multiple multi-million dollar lawsuits for misconduct.

It shouldn't exist but common sense disappeared years ago.

[ST_Lawson]

They're looking at it as an enrollment boost specifically. If history is any indicator, this type of approach to starting FCS programs usually ends up -- sooner or later -- in the Pioneer League.

Yeah, I know why they want to do it. They're pretty much to the point where they're throwing any and all ideas at the wall to see if anything sticks (enrollment-wise). As we all know though, FCS football is not a money-maker, so they'll need to find a way to come up with some funding to make it happen.

[NY Crusader 2010]

It shouldn't exist but common sense disappeared years ago.

Seems like the common sense thing would be for University of Illinois at Chicago to absorb Chicago State University.

[ST_Lawson]

Seems like the common sense thing would be for University of Illinois at Chicago to absorb Chicago State University.

I doubt UIC would even touch them. I still say they need to merge with Governors State. The two schools are a short 30 minute drive down I-57 away from each other (https://maps.app.goo.gl/ioprpHppCQFbFJ6K9) or if you like the Metra (Chicagoland area train service), they're about 45 minutes apart on the same train line (https://maps.app.goo.gl/892eVZXFsbuyYEu38). Total enrollment would be about 6,600. Both have very diverse student populations and have a similar acceptance rate as well as the same "top" programs (top 3 for both schools are Psychology, Business, and Liberal Arts and Humanities).

Chicago State is DI, but Governors State is the larger school (4.4k students vs 2.2k students) and competes in NAIA. GSU also has much more space around them where they could build a football stadium...

https://i.imgur.com/7Y61jnl.png