Post-Playoff Rankings

[Catbooster]

First - Congratulations SDSU. You've had an excellent run through this season and deserve the Championship trophy you won today.

I'm real curious to see how the poll ends up. I don't see how anyone could disagree on the #1 position, but #2 through ?


End of regular season AGS #4 NDSU loses to SDSU on a neutral field by 24 (45-21)
Season end AGS #3 Montana State loses to SDSU on their field (poor weather/field conditions that both teams had to deal with) by 21 (39-18)
AGS #9 Holy Cross loses to SDSU on their field by 21 (42-21)


I think UIW can make an argument to be included in the discussion as well:

#5 UIW lost to NDSU in the Fargo Dome by 3 (35-32)


and Sac and Furman are probably not far behind.

That's all just a very superficial review of the playoff scores. Stats will provide more data points. But I'm interested in how voters weight the AGS poll from the end of the season, which should account for the entire season's resume but generally lacks the head-to head results, vs the playoff games, which really only account for one game in a relatively high pressure situation.

Edit to fix score typo

[Preferred Walk-On]

Got the margin correct, but the Holy Cross @ South Dakota State score was 42-21. Not that it really matters.

You also forgot the South Dakota State @ North Dakota State game of 23-21...in the Fargodome, where the crowd is always good for a 22 pt difference in the opponents score. I jest, of course, but if one is arguing that footing is the difference, and that Montana State makes that game in Frisco a close one, AND that the regular season game shouldn't count, I respectfully disagree.

The above said, it is quite difficult to know what UIW or Holy Cross would look like playing an MVFC schedule, just as it is difficult to know whether Montana State playing South Dakota State twice would look like. I suggest that maybe you average the NDSU v. SDSU games and go with that.

My question would be, "Did Montana State have its full arsenal against South Dakota State?". North Dakota State did not, but I don't think it would have made much difference, except perhaps in the score differential (which ultimately would render your first comparison moot). Also, NDSU did win their side of the bracket missing some key players, so I guess there is that.

I don't think it matters much otherwise, and I am sure there will be quite small vote margins between #2-4 in the poll.

[McCowboys]

We also need to remember that some teams just match up better with others. SDSU matches up well, very well, with NDSU and that is because they patterned both their offense and defense on getting the best of the bison. Would SDSU have matched up as well with UIW?

[Preferred Walk-On]

We also need to remember that some teams just match up better with others. SDSU matches up well, very well, with NDSU and that is because they patterned both their offense and defense on getting the best of the bison. Would SDSU have matched up as well with UIW?

Agree. And don’t forget, Montana State is doing the same.


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[uofmman1122]

From watching all those games, I'd go

#1 SDSU
#2 NDSU
#3 MSU
#4 UIW

After that, I dunno. There was a pretty big gap between #1 and #2 this year.

[ElCid]

We also need to remember that some teams just match up better with others. SDSU matches up well, very well, with NDSU and that is because they patterned both their offense and defense on getting the best of the bison. Would SDSU have matched up as well with UIW?

Not to mention the bigger situation of just a little bit of overall familiarity and a huge rivalry. LOL.

[Catbooster]

Got the margin correct, but the Holy Cross @ South Dakota State score was 42-21. Not that it really matters.

You also forgot the South Dakota State @ North Dakota State game of 23-21...in the Fargodome, where the crowd is always good for a 22 pt difference in the opponents score. I jest, of course, but if one is arguing that footing is the difference, and that Montana State makes that game in Frisco a close one, AND that the regular season game shouldn't count, I respectfully disagree.

The above said, it is quite difficult to know what UIW or Holy Cross would look like playing an MVFC schedule, just as it is difficult to know whether Montana State playing South Dakota State twice would look like. I suggest that maybe you average the NDSU v. SDSU games and go with that.

My question would be, "Did Montana State have its full arsenal against South Dakota State?". North Dakota State did not, but I don't think it would have made much difference, except perhaps in the score differential (which ultimately would render your first comparison moot). Also, NDSU did win their side of the bracket missing some key players, so I guess there is that.

I don't think it matters much otherwise, and I am sure there will be quite small vote margins between #2-4 in the poll.

Thanks for the catch on the score - fixed.

I wasn't trying to argue the footing in the MSU game would have changed the outcome or anything. I should have left that comment off just because it's likely to just derail the discussion. My thought with that comment was that in every game you can find something that makes it a different situation than other games (as you've pointed out injuries is another potential modifier). There is no perfect measure for comparison.

What I was trying to get at, is that SDSU beat all of these teams head to head in the playoffs by very similar margins. While generally the most recent HtH result is the strongest indicator, in this case other factors will have to carry quite a bit of weight since that one is very close.

Do you put more weight on the stats from the playoff game? Another thread is making the (reasonable) argument that Holy Cross gave SDSU the toughest playoff game and therefore should be #2. However, based on the consensus at the end of the season, they were the lowest ranked of the teams listed. Was everyone wrong about where HC should have been ranked? Or are the stats from one game less representative of the team's season?

MSU and NDSU were ranked next to each other for weeks (considerably higher than Holy Cross). MSU lost by fewer points and SDSU had home field advantage in that game. But NDSU played them earlier in the season and it was much closer (on a side note is there more pressure in the playoffs to where if things start going badly it more easily snowballs and the team ends up with a bad loss?).

UIW lost a close one in the Fargo Dome. Maybe on a neutral field they might have won? Maybe they would have been a tougher matchup for SDSU?

To me, there's not a clear-cut #2. Reasonable arguments can be made for multiple teams. I'm just interested to see how it ends up, and interested to hear others' opinions. I haven't decided how I'm going to rank these teams yet.

[uofmman1122]

The fact that NDSU beat UIW makes me put them over the cats. The closest team to UIW's level that MSU beat was....Weber? (it certainly wasn't incredibly overrated W&M)

I think transitive score matching is silly. I think MSU and NDSU would beat Holy Cross if they played, despite the similar scores against SDSU.

[JacksFan40]

We also need to remember that some teams just match up better with others. SDSU matches up well, very well, with NDSU and that is because they patterned both their offense and defense on getting the best of the bison. Would SDSU have matched up as well with UIW?
Offensively we could’ve picked our score against UIW, but their passing attack would’ve given our defense major trouble.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Thanks for the catch on the score - fixed.

I wasn't trying to argue the footing in the MSU game would have changed the outcome or anything. I should have left that comment off just because it's likely to just derail the discussion. My thought with that comment was that in every game you can find something that makes it a different situation than other games (as you've pointed out injuries is another potential modifier). There is no perfect measure for comparison.

What I was trying to get at, is that SDSU beat all of these teams head to head in the playoffs by very similar margins. While generally the most recent HtH result is the strongest indicator, in this case other factors will have to carry quite a bit of weight since that one is very close.

Do you put more weight on the stats from the playoff game? Another thread is making the (reasonable) argument that Holy Cross gave SDSU the toughest playoff game and therefore should be #2. However, based on the consensus at the end of the season, they were the lowest ranked of the teams listed. Was everyone wrong about where HC should have been ranked? Or are the stats from one game less representative of the team's season?

MSU and NDSU were ranked next to each other for weeks (considerably higher than Holy Cross). MSU lost by fewer points and SDSU had home field advantage in that game. But NDSU played them earlier in the season and it was much closer (on a side note is there more pressure in the playoffs to where if things start going badly it more easily snowballs and the team ends up with a bad loss?).

UIW lost a close one in the Fargo Dome. Maybe on a neutral field they might have won? Maybe they would have been a tougher matchup for SDSU?

To me, there's not a clear-cut #2. Reasonable arguments can be made for multiple teams. I'm just interested to see how it ends up, and interested to hear others' opinions. I haven't decided how I'm going to rank these teams yet.

Hey, no worries. Just a little salty about yesterday and driving back to God’s country today.

As a Bison fan, and I don’t mean to sound arrogant, but I could give two s***s about anything lower than #1; however, as an AGS Poll Voter, it is important (at least a little bit) to discuss this, so I can appreciate the points made.

I am having trouble rationalizing putting teams ahead of NDSU @ #2. The talk last year was that NDSU barely beat JMU in the semis, but had a more convincing win against MSU, so many voters (not me) put JMU @ #2. Of course, many of those same voters also disregarded this logic the year before that, when Delaware received an “and Wings” beatdown, so take it for what it is worth.

My problem is that a complete (meaning no major injuries or mid-playoff transfers) NDSU probably wins their bracket half more convincingly and has a bit better showing in the championship game. That said, they currently are what they are. Also, if body of work matters, they lost to a Pac 12 by 3 pt and to the #1 by 2 pt in the regular season…that is it. It will really depend on your view on this: (1) current status, (2) body of work, and/or (3) how circumstances factor in. No offense, but the Big Sky was not better than the MVFC (not saying they were worse either), and if MSU had played Sac St and Idaho and come out unscathed, than their “undefeated against FCS” would mean more to me. MSU was a very good team and deserves consideration for #2, but at the end of the day, it just does not quite tip the scale for me…perhaps others, but not me.


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[Catbooster]

The fact that NDSU beat UIW makes me put them over the cats. The closest team to UIW's level that MSU beat was....Weber? (it certainly wasn't incredibly overrated W&M)

I think transitive score matching is silly. I think MSU and NDSU would beat Holy Cross if they played, despite the similar scores against SDSU.
Well I've read a lot of FuBear posts this year and his persistence has convinced me that the transitive property of football scoring is likely the most accurate indicator. xdrunkyx

[MR. CHICKEN]

1 SOUTH DAKOTA STATE
2 NORTH DAKOTA STATE
3 MONTANA STATE
4 INCARNATE WORD
5 SACRAMENTO STATE
6 HOLY CROSS

[FUBeAR]

Well I've read a lot of FuBear posts this year and his persistence has convinced me that the transitive property of football scoring is likely the most accurate indicator. xdrunkyx
https://appliantology.org/uploads/monthly_2019_07/large.AE668F51-6A52-4CC4-9109-561BCD2204E5.jpeg.7589d6ce8060b51239a96b31d5a055cd .jpeg

[Professor Chaos]

There tends to be a lot of recency bias in the final poll but, to be honest, the final poll is probably the most inconsequential/boring one of the year in terms of discussion. I do try to keep in mind the regular season though as well. I think everything after #1 in the final poll is a crapshoot. Holy Cross, Montana St, NDSU, or UIW could make a plausible argument for #2. I also think Sac St should be in that group as well when you consider what they did in the regular season.

And don't forget about UC Davis.... just because they didn't make the playoffs doesn't mean they're not deserving of being ranked in front of a bunch of playoff teams. If you want to use transitive score property as bible they got within 2 of SDSU in Brookings.

[NY Crusader 2010]

My top 10:

1) SDSU
2) NDSU
3) Incarnate Word
4) Montana State
5) Sacramento State
6) Holy Cross
7) Samford
8) Weber
9) William & Mary
10) Furman

[FUBeAR]

Well I've read a lot of FuBear posts this year and his persistence has convinced me that the transitive property of football scoring is likely the most accurate indicator. xdrunkyx
Should we think about Samford’s only-33 point loss @ Georgia when we are compiling these Post-Playoff Rankings? Clearly, Samford is the #2 Team in FBS…hard to put them ahead of SDSU, but…on a neutral field, with their starting QB…yeah, we can make a solid argument for the SoCon’s Samford Bulldogs @ #2. Right?

[Born a Rabbit]

i am sure my thoughts here mean nothing and maybe someone will even say something to that effect, soon!
Seems it matters what is your goal or your philosophy? is the final ranking a reflection of where the teams stand today? or a reflection of the entire body of work of the season? to me it seems where are they now, but what they did on the way to now helps to prove who they currently are, or something kind of like that

that said, the 3, 4, or 5 teams following the jacks and bison in MVFC would have done just fine playing in the big sky. they probably have a coin flip game with all the playoff teams except MSU and Sac. For instance, Montana did not beat anyone playing as well as Mo St was playing when UND beat them. point being, in my (what i am sure will be seen as a biased opinion, but i believe i am pretty even minded and aware of my biases) opinion, NDSU played a more difficult schedule than MSU did. and ultimately what a poll is really trying to say is if these two teams played today, who is most likely to win. i believe on a neutral field the bison are better so they are #2

MSU has to be 3, but i am not positive they beat UIW on a neutral field. in this case i am giving them the nod for a much tougher schedule overall and i think that is a reasonable variable to use when the teams seem too close to call otherwise

yes HC did give the jacks the toughest time in the playoffs and i take nothing away for that. they had an opportunity and they were ready for it. they took their best shot when it counted and for 2 and a half quarters ....... that said i believe the jacks had their eye on MSU from the second the bracket came out (wrong on their part and shame on them, but i still believe it is true) and both MSU and NDSU have some reason to be mad at HC because that game showed the jacks that they needed to play their best on every play the rest of the way and gave them a very harsh reminder about losing focus on their job against the run. they did not make those mistakes again

anyway, still think you have to put UIW at 4 and HC at 5. afterall, UIW did give the bison a tough game in the fargodome (how many teams have done that on basically the first try? i know it wasnt but nobody was left from the previous try) and they knocked off Sac at Sac. IF HC could duplicate the effort from the game in brookings, would they beat UIW on a neutral field?? maybe, but winning at Sac and playing the bison close in the fargodome earns UIW the final #4

probably Sac at 5. they only lost once (you can debate the schedule. they got juice all year for beating Co St. Co St sucks so that was not an honest argument) I dont think anyone could say it is wrong to put HC here, but i give it to Sac

HC at 6

i could go on... but i will leave the rest up to the experts

would be fun to put those 6 on a neutral field. give one and two a bye and play it out (or pick the 7 and 8 team so everyone has to win 3 games, but i dont want to debate who those are). do you get the same final. if you play it ten times you dont get jacks bison every time but i bet you get it more than any other combo

[FUBeAR]

i am sure my thoughts here mean nothing and maybe someone will even say something to that effect, soon!
Seems it matters what is your goal or your philosophy? is the final ranking a reflection of where the teams stand today? or a reflection of the entire body of work of the season? to me it seems where are they now, but what they did on the way to now helps to prove who they currently are, or something kind of like that

that said, the 3, 4, or 5 teams following the jacks and bison in MVFC would have done just fine playing in the big sky. they probably have a coin flip game with all the playoff teams except MSU and Sac. For instance, Montana did not beat anyone playing as well as Mo St was playing when UND beat them. point being, in my (what i am sure will be seen as a biased opinion, but i believe i am pretty even minded and aware of my biases) opinion, NDSU played a more difficult schedule than MSU did. and ultimately what a poll is really trying to say is if these two teams played today, who is most likely to win. i believe on a neutral field the bison are better so they are #2

MSU has to be 3, but i am not positive they beat UIW on a neutral field. in this case i am giving them the nod for a much tougher schedule overall and i think that is a reasonable variable to use when the teams seem too close to call otherwise

yes HC did give the jacks the toughest time in the playoffs and i take nothing away for that. they had an opportunity and they were ready for it. they took their best shot when it counted and for 2 and a half quarters ....... that said i believe the jacks had their eye on MSU from the second the bracket came out (wrong on their part and shame on them, but i still believe it is true) and both MSU and NDSU have some reason to be mad at HC because that game showed the jacks that they needed to play their best on every play the rest of the way and gave them a very harsh reminder about losing focus on their job against the run. they did not make those mistakes again

anyway, still think you have to put UIW at 4 and HC at 5. afterall, UIW did give the bison a tough game in the fargodome (how many teams have done that on basically the first try? i know it wasnt but nobody was left from the previous try) and they knocked off Sac at Sac. IF HC could duplicate the effort from the game in brookings, would they beat UIW on a neutral field?? maybe, but winning at Sac and playing the bison close in the fargodome earns UIW the final #4

probably Sac at 5. they only lost once (you can debate the schedule. they got juice all year for beating Co St. Co St sucks so that was not an honest argument) I dont think anyone could say it is wrong to put HC here, but i give it to Sac

HC at 6

i could go on... but i will leave the rest up to the experts

would be fun to put those 6 on a neutral field. give one and two a bye and play it out (or pick the 7 and 8 team so everyone has to win 3 games, but i dont want to debate who those are). do you get the same final. if you play it ten times you dont get jacks bison every time but i bet you get it more than any other combo

Love all the logic & the ‘on a neutral field-based’ decision making, such as that bolded above.

Seems you omitted a meaningful iteration of that logic from your thorough analysis though…

Let’s consider…
a. Your bunnies beat the bizuns by 2 in Fargo
b. Your bunnies beat the bizuns by 24 on a neutral field
c. The bizuns beat UIW by 3 in Fargo

Considering what we are informed by a, b, and c; does your #2 NDSU beat you #4 UIW on a neutral field?

Using logic and your criteria set, FUBeAR just doesn’t see any way that you can answer yes to the question above. Thus, in your model, UIW should be #2. Correct?

[caribbeanhen]

Last year was last year and JMU was #2

this year is a different year and the Bison are #2 (barely)

[Born a Rabbit]

OK this is in response to Fubear's post. tried AGAIN to use the quote function. maybe it will show up, but it does not appear like it is going to.


Well, if you really want to know the HOW, of how i think about this, i always look at it, IF these two teams played 10 times what would happen. for instance, i believe if the jacks played the bison or MSU each 10 times, i believe they beat ndsu about 7.5 out of 10, and MSU 8 of 10 or a little more. but there is a wide variety of outcomes in any single game pairing.

using that type of thinking, i think the UIW game was one of the best possible outcomes for UIW vs the bison. i believe the bison beat them at least 6 of 10 and maybe 7 or 7.5 of 10. and that is the bison team at the end of the year with no Leupke. they beat them 8 of 10 or more with Leupke and i did consider that the bison team at end of year was not the best version of this years team when i put them at #2. i give UIW credit, lots of credit!! for playing probably their two best games of the year when it mattered the most!! and going ON THE ROAD and beating unbeaten Sac and giving the bison a serious scare, but i dont think anyone can honestly believe they would do that every time to either of those teams. it appeared to me that UIW and Sac are pretty much a coin flip

again, i could go on, and these are just my personal thoughts, obviously you are welcome to believe that UIW is better than the bison if you wish and i cannot say that your reasoning does not have merit. i just dont believe that is what would usually happen


editing just to add this. using the reply with quote button does NOT always put the quote before the response. as i said in the beginning, i tried that here. obviously there is no quote. being aware of my normal level of competence (or incompetence) with technology, i still believe i could be doing something wrong, but i am doing the same thing in each instance and sometimes the quote shows up

[FUBeAR]

OK this is in response to Fubear's post. tried AGAIN to use the quote function. maybe it will show up, but it does not appear like it is going to.


Well, if you really want to know the HOW, of how i think about this, i always look at it, IF these two teams played 10 times what would happen. for instance, i believe if the jacks played the bison or MSU each 10 times, i believe they beat ndsu about 7.5 out of 10, and MSU 8 of 10 or a little more. but there is a wide variety of outcomes in any single game pairing.

using that type of thinking, i think the UIW game was one of the best possible outcomes for UIW vs the bison. i believe the bison beat them at least 6 of 10 and maybe 7 or 7.5 of 10. and that is the bison team at the end of the year with no Leupke. they beat them 8 of 10 or more with Leupke and i did consider that the bison team at end of year was not the best version of this years team when i put them at #2. i give UIW credit, lots of credit!! for playing probably their two best games of the year when it mattered the most!! and going ON THE ROAD and beating unbeaten Sac and giving the bison a serious scare, but i dont think anyone can honestly believe they would do that every time to either of those teams. it appeared to me that UIW and Sac are pretty much a coin flip

again, i could go on, and these are just my personal thoughts, obviously you are welcome to believe that UIW is better than the bison if you wish and i cannot say that your reasoning does not have merit. i just dont believe that is what would usually happen


editing just to add this. using the reply with quote button does NOT always put the quote before the response. as i said in the beginning, i tried that here. obviously there is no quote. being aware of my normal level of competence (or incompetence) with technology, i still believe i could be doing something wrong, but i am doing the same thing in each instance and sometimes the quote shows up
Hmmm….seems like you have now updated/altered/augmented your methodology to justify the outcome you wanted to derive anyway.

FUBeAR still finds a flaw in your logic, but this one is certainly more subjective. Contrary to the statement bolded above, FUBeAR thinks UIW played far better at home against Furman than they did against SacSt or NDSU. The Cardinals Defense forgot to board the plane to Cali and their Coaches (more so than their Players) were obviously rattled / distracted in their game in the FargoDome.

This opinion of FUBeAR’s, with which FUBeAR is certain you (and every other MVFC & Big Sky Fan) will disagree, raises another issue with your rankings assuming your originally stated methodology. If we apply that methodology (as FUBeAR did in his prior post), UIW is clearly #2…but…they barely edged Furman by just 3 at HOME in San Antonio. If a backside FU OT doesn’t needlessly, lightly grab the back of a DLman’s jersey (who wasn’t anywhere near making the play) for a brief instant, picking up a fairly called (dammit) holding penalty, FU runs out the clock, with a 4 point lead and wins that one.

So…on a neutral field, Furman obviously was better than UIW….using your originally stated methodology, gotta put Furman at #2 ahead of UIW and slide those bizuns down to #4 now. Don’t you?

[Born a Rabbit]

AGAIN replying to Fubear. dont think the quote is going to show up

Do you REALLY think Furman is #2. i hope not. and this points out the challenge with the whole on a neutral field thing. it is a good tool, but you have to use lots of tools because all of them have flaws.

at the same time, i did say that your reasoning for putting UIW at #2 was not lacking merit. but i think anyone can make an argument for 4 or maybe 5 teams to be #2 and all of those arguments would have merit and at the end of the day the eyeball test seemingly has to come into play, regardless of the fact that it is probably the least objective

in strictly my perspective (although both final polls seem to have a similar perspective, and i venture the final AGS poll will agree), i believe if you play on a neutral field 10 times, the bison win that series against every team in the country minus the jacks. they are the fairly comfortably two best teams this year

on a related note that is also a big reason i believe several MV teams were underrated. any team that played both of them this year should get a bump in the final poll

[FUBeAR]

AGAIN replying to Fubear. dont think the quote is going to show up

Do you REALLY think Furman is #2. i hope not. and this points out the challenge with the whole on a neutral field thing. it is a good tool, but you have to use lots of tools because all of them have flaws.

at the same time, i did say that your reasoning for putting UIW at #2 was not lacking merit. but i think anyone can make an argument for 4 or maybe 5 teams to be #2 and all of those arguments would have merit and at the end of the day the eyeball test seemingly has to come into play, regardless of the fact that it is probably the least objective

in strictly my perspective (although both final polls seem to have a similar perspective, and i venture the final AGS poll will agree), i believe if you play on a neutral field 10 times, the bison win that series against every team in the country minus the jacks. they are the fairly comfortably two best teams this year

on a related note that is also a big reason i believe several MV teams were underrated. any team that played both of them this year should get a bump in the final poll
From what FUBeAR saw of NDSU vs. Samford, UIW, and SDSU AND from what FUBeAR saw of Furman vs. Elon and UIW, FUBeAR absolutely believes that Furman beats NDSU at least 6 out of 10 times on a neutral field and 0 or maybe 1 of 10 times in the FargoDome in the Playoffs. So, if you think NDSU is #2 and FUBeAR accepts that AND thinks FU is better than the bizuns on a neutral field, then, yeah, guess so, despite your hopes, Furman would be #2.

Actually…would probably do something like this…

1) SDSU
2) FU
2) UIW
2) MSU
5) Samford (w/starting QB healthy - sorry … they aren’t in Top 10 or 15 w/o him)
6) NDSU
7) SacSt
8) HC
9) Weber
10) W&M

Looking forward to seeing all of the praising garlands and flowers that will be thrown at FUBeAR’s assessment.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Question:

Will there be a final AGS poll? Can't remember if you guys vote on one after the season as well. I don't have the time at this point in my life to do adequate research on a week by week basis but would love to contribute to a final poll if there is one.

[McCowboys]

Question:

Will there be a final AGS poll? Can't remember if you guys vote on one after the season as well. I don't have the time at this point in my life to do adequate research on a week by week basis but would love to contribute to a final poll if there is one.

The poll voting link was sent out Sunday. Are you a regular poll voter? If so, see the poll voters forum for the link and ask why you didn't get the email, too.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The poll voting link was sent out Sunday. Are you a regular poll voter? If so, see the poll voters forum for the link and ask why you didn't get the email, too.

Thanks, I got it and I just voted. Poll was supposed to close "roughly" at 2pm today to accommodate fans returning home from Frisco but I was still able to submit just now. Looking forward to sharing!

[ElCid]

The poll voting link was sent out Sunday. Are you a regular poll voter? If so, see the poll voters forum for the link and ask why you didn't get the email, too.

I got it immediately after game. I am guessing that participation might have been low so he is waiting for more.

[SteelSD]

From what FUBeAR saw of NDSU vs. Samford, UIW, and SDSU AND from what FUBeAR saw of Furman vs. Elon and UIW, FUBeAR absolutely believes that Furman beats NDSU at least 6 out of 10 times on a neutral field and 0 or maybe 1 of 10 times in the FargoDome in the Playoffs. So, if you think NDSU is #2 and FUBeAR accepts that AND thinks FU is better than the bizuns on a neutral field, then, yeah, guess so, despite your hopes, Furman would be #2.

Actually…would probably do something like this…

1) SDSU
2) FU
2) UIW
2) MSU
5) Samford (w/starting QB healthy - sorry … they aren’t in Top 10 or 15 w/o him)
6) NDSU
7) SacSt
8) HC
9) Weber
10) W&M

Looking forward to seeing all of the praising garlands and flowers that will be thrown at FUBeAR’s assessment.
I don’t even want to know the mental gymnastics you must have used to rate FU ahead of two teams it lost to during the season. Including one that beat FU in their own house.

[Chalupa Batman]

I don’t even want to know the mental gymnastics you must have used to rate FU ahead of two teams it lost to during the season. Including one that beat FU in their own house.

You have to love eating pretzels. Like all day, every day.

[POD Knows]

My top 10:

1) SDSU
2) NDSU
3) Incarnate Word
4) Montana State
5) Sacramento State
6) Holy Cross
7) Samford
8) Weber
9) William & Mary
10) Furman
Exactly the same as mine except I had W&M and Furman flipped

[Gil Dobie]

Exactly the same as mine except I had W&M and Furman flipped

Pretty much the same, except I didn't have a CAA team sniffing the top 10.

[Bisonator]

When do the post season polls come out? Haven't seen anything yet or did I miss them??

[FUBeAR]

You have to love eating pretzels. Like all day, every day.
The only ‘pretzeling’ involved in that ranking was deployed to self-prevent FUBeAR from putting Mercer @ #6 because he didn’t want the MVFC/Big Sky cabal here to have a collective aneurysm.

[Gil Dobie]

The only ‘pretzeling’ involved in that ranking was deployed to self-prevent FUBeAR from putting Mercer @ #6 because he didn’t want the MVFC/Big Sky cabal here to have a collective aneurysm.

Glad you survived your aneurysm. Mercer is better than any CAA team. Maybe you are chasing the wrong windmills.

[FUBeAR]

Glad you survived your aneurysm. Mercer is better than any CAA team. Maybe you are chasing the wrong windmills.
Found another AGS glitch for FUBeAR - can’t give Rep Points - just won’t save … here’s the copy / paste from that attempt

ReputationAdd to Reputation: Gil DobieWhat do you think of Gil Dobie's post?

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Your comments on this post: LOL & That’s fair


…BUT….That does bring up this question…

https://i.imgflip.com/76s9r2.jpg

[Gil Dobie]

Elon beat Gardner Webb by 6, Gardner Webb beat NCAT by 21, NDSU beat NCAT by 40, 36-3 at the half, with players I never heard of playing most of the 2nd half. Bison #7 RB had the most carries in the game. 8 RB's and 9 WR had touches. Courtesy of FUBear's transitive property theory.

[FUBeAR]

Elon beat Gardner Webb by 6, Gardner Webb beat NCAT by 21, NDSU beat NCAT by 40, 36-3 at the half, with players I never heard of playing most of the 2nd half. Bison #7 RB had the most carries in the game. 8 RB's and 9 WR had touches. Courtesy of FUBear's transitive property theory.
Well, we learned on Sunday that the FargoDome is worth at least 22 points (and that’s for a Team that has alternate year FargoDome experience)…so we need to feather that NDSU over A&T win back to about 18 pts on a neutral field…which, if we also ‘neutralize’ G-W’s home win over A&T with the standard 3 points, is exactly equal to NDSU’s win. Then we neutralize Elon’s home win over G-W and determine that Elon is 3 points better than NDSU.

THANK YOU for proving FUBeAR’s point with actual maths - 2022 Elon > 2022 NDSU

[Gil Dobie]

That was a first half win, NDSU coasted in the 2nd half. They didn't run up the score.

[SU DOG]

What I never see mentioned is that Samford beat the only team that beat Incarnate Word in regular season action. Playing the Bison up there and having to start a Fr. walk-on QB was suicide. Hiers, although played was nowhere near 100%. Don't misunderstand me, if Hiers had not been injured beating NDSU in that dome probably wouldn't have happened. What I will say is that I truly believe it would have been much more competitive, and Samford would have gained more respect.

Having a season like this last one happened for Samford over 30 years ago, so to see my school listed in the top 10 makes me ecstatic. Hiers is expected to be back. He isn't the dual threat that you would like to have, but he throws with accuracy that you don't see even in many big-time FBS schools. He now holds the all-time FCS completion percentage record. We lost a ton of good players, so I won't predict where we will be this upcoming season. My gut feeling, however, is that we will again have a strong team. I also think the SoCon will continue to gain more respect because this conference is improving remarkably.

[POD Knows]

What I never see mentioned is that Samford beat the only team that beat Incarnate Word in regular season action. Playing the Bison up there and having to start a Fr. walk-on QB was suicide. Hiers, although played was nowhere near 100%. Don't misunderstand me, if Hiers had not been injured beating NDSU in that dome probably wouldn't have happened. What I will say is that I truly believe it would have been much more competitive, and Samford would have gained more respect.

Having a season like this last one happened for Samford over 30 years ago, so to see my school listed in the top 10 makes me ecstatic. Hiers is expected to be back. He isn't the dual threat that you would like to have, but he throws with accuracy that you don't see even in many big-time FBS schools. He now holds the all-time FCS completion percentage record. We lost a ton of good players, so I won't predict where we will be this upcoming season. My gut feeling, however, is that we will again have a strong team. I also think the SoCon will continue to gain more respect because this conference is improving remarkably.


Dude, did you see the number of injuries the Bison had towards the end of the season, if we had been full strength, they might have beat Samford by 40 even if Samford had their QB at full strength.

[FUBeAR]

LOL - was able to give Rep Point to SU Dog for his on-target post (#39) … contrary to Pod’s insane ranting that followed …but not able to quote SU Dog’s post.


Thinking FUBeAR or AGS … or both … must have Digital Covid!

[SU DOG]

Couldn't get quote for POD Knows, but here is my reply:

Your speculation is as good as mine so okay. I did not mean any disrespect for NDSU, although the 40 points spread may be a little off base. My only intended point here is that the game might have been a little more competitive had Hiers been healthy. That comment was of course meant to apply against the Bison team as it existed on that particular game day and did not include any conjecture about your injury situation.