Where do disgruntled Conf members go?

[ekufbfan]

I and some/many EKU fans are unhappy with the OVC. I once thought the So Co was the place for us. I am not as sure now as the So Co makeup has changed dramatically just like the OVC. The SO Co losing Marshall and ETSU, adding Elon and now Samford. The OVC which once had WKU, MTSU, Youngstown State and Akron, now has Tenn Martin and SEMO. Tenn State does as they please, with their Band (which are great, but has nothing to do with what they get away with) breaking rules every week playing loudly during the entire game not to mention that TSU is allowed to play one less conference game each year in order to fit in a traditional Black University rival. The problem I see is where do schools go who aren't ready or who do not want to move to the FBS do? Stay put and drown or move to another conference that in all likelyhood will prove to be an expensive move given travel issues for all sports and to a conference that has the same growth (?) issues? BTW, this is meant as no disrespect to any other conference, just what I believe is a legit question. Is this why some predict that FCS is doomed as the division it has been the last 20 years, especially with smaller schools, DII or DIII moving up?

[AppMan]

Is this why some predict that FCS is doomed as the division it has been the last 20 years, especially with smaller schools, DII or DIII moving up?

My primary argument for 15 years has been the diversity within the division is simply too great. Two things have caused this mess. Number One was the ridiculous requirement where all D-I football playing school HAD to play at the 1-A or 1-AA level. Before that became the law of the land schools like Georgetown could play D-III football and D-I basketball. The Number Two cause for the gap is the absence of a minimum number of required football scholarships. It is killing the FCS as well as D-II and is the primary reason for the Four-year moratorium. . With numerous D-II schools already awarding more football scholarships than many FCS schools, they only need to meet a few requirements to reach D-I status. For larger state supported D-II schools it's a no brainer. If FCS schools had the same scholarship requirements of the FBS where schools have to fund an average of at least 90 percent of the maximum football grants (which would be 60 in the FCS) over a rolling two-year period, the flow from D-II might not be taking place.

[DFW HOYA]

If FCS schools had the same scholarship requirements of the FBS where schools have to fund an average of at least 90 percent of the maximum football grants (which would be 60 in the FCS) over a rolling two-year period, the flow from D-II might not be taking place.

It probably still would. The lure of the NCAA Div. I basketball money is strong.

The state schools of the south and west don't understand why schoalrship football is not stronger in the East, but there is a considerable tradition of lower scholarship ball there, even in what is now the CAA. As late as 1974 a I-A school like Rutgers was playing half their games against what are now Patriot League schools, and they sure weren't at 85 grants.

[UMass922]

Is going independent a possibility?

[Syntax Error]

... cause for the gap is the absence of a minimum number of required football scholarships. It is killing the FCS as well as D-II and is the primary reason for the Four-year moratorium.Why is it the "cause for the gap" and the "primary reason for the Four-year moratorium" ???? Nothing is "killing the FCS" like you state.
With numerous D-II schools already awarding more football scholarships than many FCS schools, they only need to meet a few requirements to reach D-I status.I know you know the difference between a D-II institution and a D-I institution. It really has little bearing on the amount of football scholarships. The amount of rule changes is enormous. That's why it takes so long to transition. That and the fact that the NCAA membership wants to make sure transitioning schools are actually following the rules.

[Golden Eagle]

I know where disgruntled OVC members can go, but this isn't the smack board. ;)

[OL FU]

I and some/many EKU fans are unhappy with the OVC. I once thought the So Co was the place for us. I am not as sure now as the So Co makeup has changed dramatically just like the OVC. The SO Co losing Marshall and ETSU, adding Elon and now Samford. The OVC which once had WKU, MTSU, Youngstown State and Akron, now has Tenn Martin and SEMO. Tenn State does as they please, with their Band (which are great, but has nothing to do with what they get away with) breaking rules every week playing loudly during the entire game not to mention that TSU is allowed to play one less conference game each year in order to fit in a traditional Black University rival. The problem I see is where do schools go who aren't ready or who do not want to move to the FBS do? Stay put and drown or move to another conference that in all likelyhood will prove to be an expensive move given travel issues for all sports and to a conference that has the same growth (?) issues? BTW, this is meant as no disrespect to any other conference, just what I believe is a legit question. Is this why some predict that FCS is doomed as the division it has been the last 20 years, especially with smaller schools, DII or DIII moving up?


Marshall left (Thank god) schools do.

This year and maybe in the Future, Elon could be ETSU and beat EKU xeekx xrolleyesx

I don't mind you not wanting to join the SoCon but don't complain about a conference that has had so much success. xrolleyesx

[gophoenix]

Here we go again with the "it's all about the size" and "It's all about our perceived name" arguments. My goodness will you guys ever stop.

Before you make such anstatement about Division II, first look at the region in question. If you are Division II in the South, you have a choice of two leagues, The South Atlantic and Gulf South (yes and the CIAA, but it is an HBCU). The Gulf South is Georgia to the west. And the South Atlantic which is private schools in NC, TN and SC. The South Atlantic has a maximum number of football scholarships of 25. Division II allows more than this, but most of the conferences in Division II limit this. This is why UNCP would be more successful in I-AA. It can get into a geographically better fit of a conference. And this is why Gardner-Webb and Elon moved up, it is the only way to viably offer more scholarships.

So to think that every D-II team can move up like the App fan said is just idiotic. To go from 25 to 63 scholarships, especially for a private school, is not an easy task, especially when you have to add women's sports on too. You're looking at an increase of almost $1 million just in scholarships alone for a football team to go full scholarship.

The problem isn't schools moving up. There are no more moveups now than there have been across the history of I-AA. In the 1970s, you had so many schools from NAIA, D-III and D-II leave that they created the subdivision in the first place. Try that on for size.

All from cfbdatawarehouse.com

1975
Appalachian State

1977
Grambling St
Texas Southern

1978
Northern Airzona
Rhode Island
Tennessee Tech
UTC
Weber St
Western Carolina
Western Kentucky
Bucknell
Delaware St
Eastern Kentucky
Florida A&M
Howard
Maine
UMass
NC A&T
Northeastern
SC State
Southern

1980
James Madison
Youngstown State
Nicholls St
Northern Iowa
Mississippi Valley St
Prarie View A&M

1982
Georgia Southern (First football year)
Missouri St
Eastern Illinois
Western Illinois
Alabama St

1984
Eastern Washington

1985
Texas St

1987
Sam Houston St
Stephen F Austin
Villanova (back to D-I)

1988
Towson St

1989
Fordham
Liberty
Samford

1991
SE Missouri St

1992
UTM
Valpo.

1993
Dayton
Butler
Sacramento St
Hofstra
Cal Poly
St Francis
San Diego
Southern Utah
Wagner
CCSU
Charleston Southern
Drake
Duquense
Georgetown
Iona
Marist
Monmouth

1995
Jacksonville St
Robert Morris
Hampton

1996
Wofford

1998
Portland St
UA-Pine Bluff
Jacksonville
LaSalle
Norfolk St

1999
Elon
Gardner-Webb
Sacred Heart
SUNY Albany
SUNY Stony Brook
Alabama A&M

2002
Savannah State

2003
SE Louisiana (first year back after being D-I previous)
Coastal Carolina (first year of football)

2005
UC Davis
Northern Colorado
North Dakota St
South Dakota St
Winston-Salem St

2007
Presbyterian
NC Central

Everyone current I-AA not mentioned had been D-I since before 1970. Many of the current non-scholarship teams were D-I before the 1980s.

[OL FU]

Here we go again with the "it's all about the size" and "It's all about our perceived name" arguments. My goodness will you guys ever stop.

Before you make such anstatement about Division II, first look at the region in question. If you are Division II in the South, you have a choice of two leagues, The South Atlantic and Gulf South (yes and the CIAA, but it is an HBCU). The Gulf South is Georgia to the west. And the South Atlantic which is private schools in NC, TN and SC. The South Atlantic has a maximum number of football scholarships of 25. Division II allows more than this, but most of the conferences in Division II limit this. This is why UNCP would be more successful in I-AA. It can get into a geographically better fit of a conference. And this is why Gardner-Webb and Elon moved up, it is the only way to viably offer more scholarships.

So to think that every D-II team can move up like the App fan said is just idiotic. To go from 25 to 63 scholarships, especially for a private school, is not an easy task, especially when you have to add women's sports on too. You're looking at an increase of almost $1 million just in scholarships alone for a football team to go full scholarship.

And before people go knocking Elon, again. Sit back and think that Elon is full scholarship. So is App. GSU is sitting 7 scholarships back as is UTC. Western, Wofford and Furman offer just a bit less than 63.

The problem isn't schools moving up. There are no more moveups now than there have been across the history of I-AA. In the 1970s, you had so many schools from NAIA, D-III and D-II leave that they created the subdivision in the first place. Try that on for size.

All from cfbdatawarehouse.com

1975
Appalachian State

1977
Grambling St
Texas Southern

1978
Northern Airzona
Rhode Island
Tennessee Tech
UTC
Weber St
Western Carolina
Western Kentucky
Bucknell
Delaware St
Eastern Kentucky
Florida A&M
Howard
Maine
UMass
NC A&T
Northeastern
SC State
Southern

1980
James Madison
Youngstown State
Nicholls St
Northern Iowa
Mississippi Valley St
Prarie View A&M

1982
Georgia Southern (First football year)
Missouri St
Eastern Illinois
Western Illinois
Alabama St

1984
Eastern Washington

1985
Texas St

1987
Sam Houston St
Stephen F Austin
Villanova (back to D-I)

1988
Towson St

1989
Fordham
Liberty
Samford

1991
SE Missouri St

1992
UTM
Valpo.

1993
Dayton
Butler
Sacramento St
Hofstra
Cal Poly
St Francis
San Diego
Southern Utah
Wagner
CCSU
Charleston Southern
Drake
Duquense
Georgetown
Iona
Marist
Monmouth

1995
Jacksonville St
Robert Morris
Hampton

1996
Wofford

1998
Portland St
UA-Pine Bluff
Jacksonville
LaSalle
Norfolk St

1999
Elon
Gardner-Webb
Sacred Heart
SUNY Albany
SUNY Stony Brook
Alabama A&M

2002
Savannah State

2003
SE Louisiana (first year back after being D-I previous)
Coastal Carolina (first year of football)

2005
UC Davis
Northern Colorado
North Dakota St
South Dakota St
Winston-Salem St

2007
Presbyterian
NC Central

Everyone current I-AA not mentioned had been D-I since before 1970. Many of the current non-scholarship teams were D-I before the 1980s.


I am so tired of this argument the only think I want to say about it anymore is if you are in and you don't like it get the ***** out and if you are out and don't like then stay the ***** out.

The SoCon is fine unless you want to move to FBS and if you do, GOxnodx xrolleyesx

Jeez, the SoCon had five teams that had a real shot at the playoffs this year and four that still do and that excludes one of the perenial powers. The OVC might get two in but will probably deserves nonexrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx




I don't really mean that about the OVC but ekufbfan, this is just dumb. Wofford, Elon and The Citadel would have no problem sitting atop the OVC this yearxrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[OL FU]

The Gridiron Power Index (GPI), the hybrid ranking for FCS and top index indicator of at-large playoff selection has the University of Northern Iowa in the top spot for the fifth straight week. The Southern Conference is the top ranked league.


PS that includes us little boys tooxrolleyesx

[AppMan]

It probably still would. The lure of the NCAA Div. I basketball money is strong.

The state schools of the south and west don't understand why schoalrship football is not stronger in the East, but there is a considerable tradition of lower scholarship ball there, even in what is now the CAA. As late as 1974 a I-A school like Rutgers was playing half their games against what are now Patriot League schools, and they sure weren't at 85 grants.

The college football landscape has changed considerably in 30+ years. Back then a huge crowd at ASU was 15,000 people in our 10,000 seat stadium and every year our schedule contained several games vs schools like Wake Forest, South Carolina, Va Tech, East Carolina, Clemson, ect. Those were the days my friend.....

[AppMan]

"So to think that every D-II team can move up like the App fan said is just idiotic. To go from 25 to 63 scholarships, especially for a private school, is not an easy task, especially when you have to add women's sports on too. You're looking at an increase of almost $1 million just in scholarships alone for a football team to go full scholarship."

GoPhoenix please pay attention to what is written before calling anyone an idiot, because it is you who come off looking like a fool. The entire point is a school does NOT have to award 63 full scholarships to play FCS football and the larger state supported institutions already sponsor more sports and award far more scholarships than the D-II minimums. So, the transition to D-I isn't all that big of a burden to them. When you add in the revenue streams from the D-I basketball tournament andf other sources the move is a no-brainer. I would be willing to bet prior to moving up Elon and Wofford were already awarding considerably more scholarships than the D-II minimums as well. An institution can actually field a D-I athletic department with less football grants than in D-II. Will you be competitve? Perhaps not, but the opinion of many of the supporters of non/need based scholarship football programs would lead you to believe they can. The cold, hard reality is a program awarding 25 football scholarships at the D-II level, could move up to D-I by eliminating all football grants, transfer that grant money into other sports and still play football on the FCS level.

From the NCAA website:
To be eligible for FCS a school must award 50% of max grants in 14 sports; or aggregate expenditure of $964,700 ($482,350 for women) on 38 full grants (19 for women) exclusive of football and basketball; OR 50 of full grants (25 for women) excluding football and basketball; or exception for institutions with exceptional reliance on federal assistance for student’s needs.

To be ELIGIBLE for D-II a 50% of maximum equivalencies in four sports (at least two women's) or; a MINIMUM total expenditure of $250,000 (with $125,000 for women's sports) or; 20 full equivalency grants with at least 10 for women's sports.

ONCE AGAIN. Numerous D-II schools are already awarding many more scholarships than the minimums. A D-II athletic depatment offering close the maximum scholarship in 7 male & 7 female sports (excluding football) will put them comfortably in the FCS level.

BTW, the data base you show of schools moving up is flawed and doesn't paint the complete picture. ASU made the move from D-II in 1969 and joined the SoCon in 1971. We were re-classified (like many others) to 1-aa in 1982. One reson you see so much movement in 1978 is because of the NCAA's splitting D-I into 1-a & 1-aa that year. The exact same reason reason for so many moving up today. The big group in 1993 was due to the NCAA mandating schools had to play D-I football if they were D-I in all other sports. Up until that time schools were able to play D-II & D-III football while being D-I in everything else.

[citdog]

WE TAKE THEM BEHIND JOHNSON HAGOOD STADIUM AND SHOOT THE **** OUT OF 'EM!xnodx xnodx xnodx

[gophoenix]

"So to think that every D-II team can move up like the App fan said is just idiotic. To go from 25 to 63 scholarships, especially for a private school, is not an easy task, especially when you have to add women's sports on too. You're looking at an increase of almost $1 million just in scholarships alone for a football team to go full scholarship."

GoPhoenix please pay attention to what is written before calling anyone an idiot, because it is you who come off looking like a fool. The entire point is a school does NOT have to award 63 full scholarships to play FCS football and the larger state supported institutions already sponsor more sports and award far more scholarships than the D-II minimums. So, the transition to D-I isn't all that big of a burden to them. When you add in the revenue streams from the D-I basketball tournament andf other sources the move is a no-brainer. I would be willing to bet prior to moving up Elon and Wofford were already awarding considerably more scholarships than the D-II minimums as well. An institution can actually field a D-I athletic department with less football grants than in D-II. Will you be competitve? Perhaps not, but the opinion of many of the supporters of non/need based scholarship football programs would lead you to believe they can. The cold, hard reality is a program awarding 25 football scholarships at the D-II level, could move up to D-I by eliminating all football grants, transfer that grant money into other sports and still play football on the FCS level.

From the NCAA website:
To be eligible for FCS a school must award 50% of max grants in 14 sports; or aggregate expenditure of $964,700 ($482,350 for women) on 38 full grants (19 for women) exclusive of football and basketball; OR 50 of full grants (25 for women) excluding football and basketball; or exception for institutions with exceptional reliance on federal assistance for student’s needs.

To be ELIGIBLE for D-II a 50% of maximum equivalencies in four sports (at least two women's) or; a MINIMUM total expenditure of $250,000 (with $125,000 for women's sports) or; 20 full equivalency grants with at least 10 for women's sports.

ONCE AGAIN. Numerous D-II schools are already awarding many more scholarships than the minimums. A D-II athletic depatment offering close the maximum scholarship in 7 male & 7 female sports (excluding football) will put them comfortably in the FCS level.

BTW, the data base you show of schools moving up is flawed and doesn't paint the complete picture. ASU made the move from D-II in 1969 and joined the SoCon in 1971. We were re-classified (like many others) to 1-aa in 1982. One reson you see so much movement in 1978 is because of the NCAA's splitting D-I into 1-a & 1-aa that year. The exact same reason reason for so many moving up today. The big group in 1993 was due to the NCAA mandating schools had to play D-I football if they were D-I in all other sports. Up until that time schools were able to play D-II & D-III football while being D-I in everything else.

Please read AppMan. Calling a statement idiotic and calling someone an idiot are not remotely the same thing.

[gophoenix]

Furthermore (as I am having trouble with the edit post feature).

IN 1972 the NCAA renamed the small college football division to D-II. This is why you have so many moveups in 1978. A ton of actual D-II teams moved to division one from the old small college division. So, in reality, these schools are D-I moveups that took advantage of the landscape of 1978 to 1982. The App data may be wrong. I'll take your word for it as I really don't care. But the picture of the situation is painted clearly for the time period.

I also understand what you are saying without having a minimum floor of scholarships to be I-AA. I can't say I agree with it nor do I agree with one being in I-A either. But I can't disagree either. And if anything should be the basis of divisions, it should be the number of scholarships offered. So I'll agree with you on that one.

It disgusts me that the NCAA would rather schools terminate their football programs than have them play at a level where they do not belong.

What should be the case:
I-A should be a minimum of 64 and maximum of 85 scholarships.
I-AA should be a minimum of 1 greater than the D-II limit (38, is that right?) and a limit of 63.
D-II should be 1 to 38
D-III should be 0

[AppMan]

Please read AppMan. Calling a statement idiotic and calling someone an idiot are not remotely the same thing.

So... idiotic statements are not made by idiots? Interesting concept.

[gophoenix]

So... idiotic statements are not made by idiots? Interesting concept.

If you are going to split hairs this much over it, then, proving your claim anyway.

[AppMan]

I also understand what you are saying without having a minimum floor of scholarships to be I-AA. I can't say I agree with it nor do I agree with one being in I-A either. But I can't disagree either. And if anything should be the basis of divisions, it should be the number of scholarships offered. So I'll agree with you on that one.

Excuse me a moment while I pick myself up off the floor.....


It disgusts me that the NCAA would rather schools terminate their football programs than have them play at a level where they do not belong.

What should be the case:
I-A should be a minimum of 64 and maximum of 85 scholarships.
I-AA should be a minimum of 1 greater than the D-II limit (38, is that right?) and a limit of 63.
D-II should be 1 to 38
D-III should be 0

IMO the requirements ought to be the same for all divisions. A school must fund an average of 90% of the maximum allowable grants over a two year period. In the FCS that would be an average 56.7 scholarships over a two year period.

[gophoenix]

Excuse me a moment while I pick myself up off the floor.....



IMO the requirements ought to be the same for all divisions. A school must fund an average of 90% of the maximum allowable grants over a two year period. In the FCS that would be an average 56.7 scholarships over a two year period.

We can disagree many times and still agree sometimes, right? xthumbsupx Or are we in danger of the universe collapsing.

And you know, I can agree that the requirements should be the same for all divisions. I was just offering a solution because I don't really like the 90% requirement. I was just offering another solution to the matter. Because, well, to be D-II you'd have to offer 90% of the D-II max, which is less than some conferences mandate as the max (SAC-8 for instance). So, then with D-III at 0, where would the other D-II schools go? And the real question is, how does this affect the grants in aid that the Patriot and Ivy Leagues schools give. Do those count?

Ultimately it comes down to the NCAA and their stupid rule about forcing schools to play D-I football or not to sponsor it.

[ekufbfan]

Posted by OL FU


Jeez, the SoCon had five teams that had a real shot at the playoffs this year and four that still do and that excludes one of the perenial powers. The OVC might get two in but will probably deserves none
I don't really mean that about the OVC but ekufbfan, this is just dumb. Wofford, Elon and The Citadel would have no problem sitting atop the OVC this year


This year and maybe in the Future, Elon could be ETSU and beat EKU

Maybe...Maybe not, that's WHY we play the game.


I don't mind you not wanting to join the SoCon but don't complain about a conference that has had so much success

You took my comment completely out of context. What I said was something like this: since the makeup of the So Co has changed in the last number of years, a fact which many of your own So Co members have complained about numerous times about on THIS board (most significantly bringing in Elon) . And now you are getting Samford, which never won much in the OVC, that perhaps that is not the Conference move it once was. Hey, if I am wrong, I stand corrected, but some of you set the tone for this yourself on this very Board. Maybe it's like this, you can complain about, argue with and whip your brother's a$$, but let an outsider try, and well we know how that usually goes! xnodx

[Go...gate]

It probably still would. The lure of the NCAA Div. I basketball money is strong.

The state schools of the south and west don't understand why schoalrship football is not stronger in the East, but there is a considerable tradition of lower scholarship ball there, even in what is now the CAA. As late as 1974 a I-A school like Rutgers was playing half their games against what are now Patriot League schools, and they sure weren't at 85 grants.

Right on. "Eastern Football" (except Penn State) went through a tremendous period of de-empahasis after WWII until the mid-late 1970's. This was caused by the Ivy Group's conference-wide lowering of their sights in the 1950's (before the formation of the Ivy League), the cheating scandal at Army in 1951, and the gradual decline (and, in some cases, shut-down) of the programs at "Major Independents" like NYU, Fordham, Pittsburgh, Buffalo (yes, Buffalo), Syracuse, BC, BU, Colgate, Lafayette, Rutgers, etc. In general, no other region of the country had such a de-emphasis in major college football, and the pendulum did not change until Johnny Majors' and Tony Dorsett's arrival at Pitt in 1973 and their National Championship in 1976.

Rutgers was a limited scholarship program until 1984, when Dick Anderson got there from Penn State. Before that, John Bateman and Frank Burns did a wonderful job making chicken salad out of chicken poop.

[JaxSinfonian]

The OVC might get two in but will probably deserves nonexrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

Sorry, but I can't that slip by without a demand for evidence to support the argument.


Wofford, Elon and The Citadel would have no problem sitting atop the OVC this yearxrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

Funny how easy statements like this are to make when no one has to play the games. I guarantee you if any of those teams were playing in the OVC this year the number of problems they'd have in winning the league would be greater than 0. At a minimum they'd have to get past Eastern Kentucky. And I doubt EIU & Jax State would be considered "easy games." Beyond those three, there'd be a seven-game stretch to go through unbeaten, a difficult prospect in any league.

You started your post saying you were "so tired" of an argument, OL FU. If anybody on this forum has a right to be tired of something, it's fans of OVC teams, with all the offhand comments that get thrown around here. Seems a Furman fan would know better ... the Paladins had more than a problem or two getting past a middle-of-the-pack OVC squad in recent years. Thank goodness for last-second touchdowns, huh?

I don't know who'd win the league if Wofford, Elon or the Citadel were in the OVC this year. But I do know the OVC will be stronger on average next year and the SoCon will be weaker. Thanks for taking Samford off our hands.

[EKU05]

I'll chime in...

1. I am reserving any criticism of the OVC at least until after we've finally locked this league up for the first time in a decade.

2. I think what was being said about the SoCon had less to do with it's strength than its make up. At one time, the actual names of teams in the SoCon would have been more attractive to casual EKU fans than they way the league is now.

3. I don't think being indepedent is really an option. As long as we remain in the FCS I wouldn't support leaving the OVC unless we were invited to join the MVC and could play Gateway football (and there's no chance the first half of that will ever happen).

The OVC has dropped off, but that's as much our fault as anyone's. We were once THE program to be/beat in I-AA...and the Hanley Funderburke Administration destroyed that. We might have dropped football altogether save for the fact that NO ONE would have dared take on Roy Kidd publicly like that.

Joanne Glasser got us started back on the right path athletically, and now we have to keep it going. If we want the OVC to gain back some respect then we need to go out and earn it in the playoffs this year. We can't wait for someone else to do it for us, and we won't. This team will find some way, somehow into round 2...and hopefully beyond...but one step at a time.

[appfan2008]

I think the OVC needs to get their act together and win some playoff games and then some respect

[gophoenix]

I want to note that this whole thing started with dumping on Elon and Wofford. And so far, no Elon or Wofford fans have dumped on the OVC. So why do you guys start in on us?

[Maroons]

I want to note that this whole thing started with dumping on Elon and Wofford. And so far, no Elon or Wofford fans have dumped on the OVC. So why do you guys start in on us?

It may have come to this, but I think the intention was merely to state that Marshall and ETSU were schools that EKU had a history and, in some instances, a rivalry with. Elon and Samford do not share those things with EKU. The SoCon is clearly the better conference overall in a variety of aspects and has been for some time. However, the "geographic footprint" (a term I hear thrown around here way too much) has moved further and further from EKU. That is, I believe, the original point as to why the SoCon is not desirable for EKU. No one is to blame for this... it's just the way it is. The institutions EKU has had historic football rivalries and traditions with have gone different directions (Marshall, MTSU, ETSU, WKU, Morehead). It is what it is. There are no obvious solutions for EKU to pursue if a new conference home is the goal.

Now maybe we don't have to have a pissing match and the rest of this crap can be settled on the field. For my sake, I hope the OVC represents better than it has.

[ekufbfan]

I want to note that this whole thing started with dumping on Elon and Wofford. And so far, no Elon or Wofford fans have dumped on the OVC. So why do you guys start in on us?

I did mention Elon (and Samford) in my orginal post. I did not mention Wofford at all. Please go back and read what I said xcoffeex before you get so bent out of shape.



I think the OVC needs to get their act together and win some playoff games and then some respect No EKU fan will argue that!


I agree with Maroons we need to finally win (again) the OVC Championship and take care of business in the playoffs, however, regardless of that outcome, it does not change my opinion of wanting out of the OVC!

[gophoenix]

It may have come to this, but I think the intention was merely to state that Marshall and ETSU were schools that EKU had a history and, in some instances, a rivalry with. Elon and Samford do not share those things with EKU. The SoCon is clearly the better conference overall in a variety of aspects and has been for some time. However, the "geographic footprint" (a term I hear thrown around here way too much) has moved further and further from EKU. That is, I believe, the original point as to why the SoCon is not desirable for EKU. No one is to blame for this... it's just the way it is. The institutions EKU has had historic football rivalries and traditions with have gone different directions (Marshall, MTSU, ETSU, WKU, Morehead). It is what it is. There are no obvious solutions for EKU to pursue if a new conference home is the goal.

But this is a gripe everyone here can use.

Elon traditionally played App and Western yearly, in the same conference, for 40 years. App and Western went D-I while we stayed and stewed for a long time, much like Jacksonville State in that respect. We even had traditional games with East Carolina, they're now I-A. And heck, traditionally our biggest rival for nearly 60 years in Guilford went to D-III rather than taking this path.

I am just sick and tired of every using us as the base line for what is wrong with everything in the SoCon. You guys buy into too much of what a few fans say.

The whole footprint thing has been blown way out of proportion. They lost ETSU with no fan following, who rarely traveled to away games outside of UTC and App, who were dropping scholarships like flies and played in the worst I-AA building and they added Samford. Samford being the first addition in Alabama in 60 years. They add Samford and people are still whining about the footprint. Which shoes, it isn't about the footprint. They lost VMI in Virginia and took Elon in NC who is 5 times the size of VMI. They lost Marshall, one of the most corrupt programs in I-AA and added a program with a ton of money.

It's not about the footprint, or the schools. It is about some perceived image and some inferiority complex you guys have with scheduling who you think are inferior schools and the fact that your peers moved on to carry losing seasons every year where they don't belong.


I did mention Elon (and Samford) in my orginal post. I did not mention Wofford at all. Please go back and read what I said before you get so bent out of shape.

If simple semantics is all you have to respond with, then the conversation has pretty much run the course.

How about you whine about your own conference and leave SoCon affairs to SoCon members.

[OL FU]

Sorry, but I can't that slip by without a demand for evidence to support the argument.



Funny how easy statements like this are to make when no one has to play the games. I guarantee you if any of those teams were playing in the OVC this year the number of problems they'd have in winning the league would be greater than 0. At a minimum they'd have to get past Eastern Kentucky. And I doubt EIU & Jax State would be considered "easy games." Beyond those three, there'd be a seven-game stretch to go through unbeaten, a difficult prospect in any league.

You started your post saying you were "so tired" of an argument, OL FU. If anybody on this forum has a right to be tired of something, it's fans of OVC teams, with all the offhand comments that get thrown around here. Seems a Furman fan would know better ... the Paladins had more than a problem or two getting past a middle-of-the-pack OVC squad in recent years. Thank goodness for last-second touchdowns, huh?

I don't know who'd win the league if Wofford, Elon or the Citadel were in the OVC this year. But I do know the OVC will be stronger on average next year and the SoCon will be weaker. Thanks for taking Samford off our hands.

The reason I said it is because I am so tired of the argument. Sorry if I offended. I do not think that poorly of the OVC. Please consider my remarks more of an overstatement to express my disdain for the EKU fans remarks about the SoCon which has been enormously successful. My remarks should have said, if you don't like the conference we are in then at least don't drag the SoCon into your dislikexnodx Sorry if I offendedxnodx

[AppMan]

In an attempt to restore peace, harmony and balance to the universe I propose the following conference changes effective immediately.

New Conference
ASU, Coastal Carolina, Delaware, GSU, EKU, JMU, ODU, TBA

SoCon
Citadel, Davidson, Elon, Furman, Richmond, Samford, VMI, W&M, Wofford

WCU & UTC to the OVC

All in favor .......

[gophoenix]

In an attempt to restore peace, harmony and balance to the universe I propose the following conference changes effective immediately.

New Conference
ASU, Coastal Carolina, Delaware, GSU, EKU, JMU, ODU, TBA

SoCon
Citadel, Davidson, Elon, Furman, Richmond, Samford, VMI, W&M, Wofford

WCU & UTC to the OVC

All in favor .......

It's THE Citadel xsmiley_wix

I'd be in favor. I think your TBA could be NC A&T, SC State or Florida A&M easy.

[OL FU]

In an attempt to restore peace, harmony and balance to the universe I propose the following conference changes effective immediately.

New Conference
ASU, Coastal Carolina, Delaware, GSU, EKU, JMU, ODU, TBA

SoCon
Citadel, Davidson, Elon, Furman, Richmond, Samford, VMI, W&M, Wofford

WCU & UTC to the OVC

All in favor .......


Better ask Delaware, I doubt they would go for it cuz you left out the team they love to hate. The dreaded Nova. Other than that it looks pretty good:p

[EKU05]

In an attempt to restore peace, harmony and balance to the universe I propose the following conference changes effective immediately.

New Conference
ASU, Coastal Carolina, Delaware, GSU, EKU, JMU, ODU, TBA

SoCon
Citadel, Davidson, Elon, Furman, Richmond, Samford, VMI, W&M, Wofford

WCU & UTC to the OVC

All in favor .......

That's not bad...I'd vote for Murray State to be included in the TBA...otherwise that league would be devoid of any traditional rivalries for us. Also, with Matt Griffin at the helm their football program will be respectable again in the very near future, and any mid-major basketball league is lucky to have the racers.

Now I have to go throw up after complimenting MSU.

[Cocky]

In an attempt to restore peace, harmony and balance to the universe I propose the following conference changes effective immediately.

New Conference
ASU, Coastal Carolina, Delaware, GSU, EKU, JMU, ODU, TBA

SoCon
Citadel, Davidson, Elon, Furman, Richmond, Samford, VMI, W&M, Wofford

WCU & UTC to the OVC

All in favor .......


We will have to go FBS?

[AppMan]

We will have to go FBS?

Thought you guys had already made that decision!

[EKU05]

Definitely let JSU in!

[AppMan]

It's THE Citadel xsmiley_wix

The second I clicked submit I knew I was in trouble!

[AppMan]

Definitely let JSU in!

It would be fine with me, but would Delaware and JMU make those trips on a regular basis?

[Cocky]

Thought you guys had already made that decision!


Not yet, but it sounds like we are headed there asap.

[ekufbfan]

The reason I said it is because I am so tired of the argument. Sorry if I offended. I do not think that poorly of the OVC. Please consider my remarks more of an overstatement to express my disdain for the EKU fans remarks about the SoCon which has been enormously successful. My remarks should have said, if you don't like the conference we are in then at least don't drag the SoCon into your dislikexnodx Sorry if I offendedxnodx

I know all you will be happy, but this is my last post regarding this. GoPhoenix and OLFU read way too much in what I orginally said. I did not put the So Co down, I only said it might not be as attradtive to us as it once was before the makeup of the So Co changed. We had a FB rivalry going with Marshall for a few years there, then they left the So Co. ETSU was once in the OVC (maybe some of you don't remember that, but they were). I really don't give a hoot about what GoPhoenix thinks, but I do have a lot of respect for the So Co. But too much has been read into what I orginally said. If you would go back and read the original post without putting your interpretation to my words, perhaps you would cool off a tad. BTW, I certainly agree that the So Co has the OVC beat in terms of recent success, now does that make you feel better? On the other hand, to assume that just because a team is in the So Co they will automatically beat EKU, as has been suggested, is an assumption that is born out of chest thumping by some (not all) fans on here (or perhaps I am I reading too much into the posts I have read by OLFU and others). Peace brothers!

[Jiggs]

Not yet, but it sounds like we are headed there asap.

Two words....Troy envy.xnodx

[gatadotcom]

Where do disgruntled Conf members go?

The Big South.