NDSU to FBS?? . Real question.

[gofurman]

There was a trolling post on this. Sorry. Why does NDSU stay in FBS —- Mine is a real question

1- People say G5 offers less money. That’s just not true. G5 pays more. Thus App GSU. Coastal Carolina. JMU. Etc etc

2- Is it a geographic thing? I saw something about ASUN?

or am I missing the real reason?? Doe the admin just like FCS?

a legitimate question. Thanks in advance for answers

[Professor Chaos]

Geography is reason #1... FBS conferences with very rare exceptions do not take football only affiliates and the only 2 relatively close geographic fits are the Big 12 and Big Ten and that's laughable to even put NDSU in that conversation. The more realistic ones would be the MAC and MWC and those are the only 2 G5 leagues unaffected by realignment (so far). I doubt the MAC is all that interested in expanding up to ND anyway.

Beyond that it's political. ND is a conservative state that does not appropriate funds to higher education willy nilly. Add that to the fact that there's waaaay too many 4 year state schools in ND (6 I believe) that the higher education funding pie is cut into there's not much for state support so the school has a hard enough time getting state funding for academic projects much less athletic projects. They would have to find their own funds to support an FBS move. The student body has also been resistant to raising (the very minimal in relation to most FCS/G5 athleticndepartment) fees going to the athletic department voting that down several times over the last few years.

There's also the debate about how serious the NDSU administration is about a move. There's a narrative that is gaining steam amongst some vocal fans that NDSU's athletic director isn't being aggressive enough in pitching the school to FBS conferences and not being public enough about the vision for the future of the program and the department. I find this to be pure speculation since anytime these conference realignment stories break it turns out that is has been something in the works for a while so who knows how advanced or not advanced the discussions are between NDSU and prospective FBS conference suitors.

The new WAC is an intriguing option since it could present an option to go FBS while maintaining NDSU's existing conference memberships in all other sports which is important given the low financial impact of those existing memberships in the Summit League and Big 12 (for wrestling). NDSU's president also just announced a $10M budget shortfall so now is not the time to be raising travel/recruiting/coaching salary costs for the non-football sports at NDSU.

[taper]

Aside from the killer geography, let's note that NDSU signed a ~$2M/year media contract in 2020. CUSA just signed a $750k/year deal with mid-week games. Why on earth would we want to trade that?

[gofurman]

Thank you both for explaining that

[JacksFan40]

Who’s going to invite them? The MAC showed interest in expansion, but that was by adding Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee, they don’t seem interested in westward expansion. The Mountain West would likely look at either New Mexico State and UTEP, or the Montana schools if they ever need to get new members. There’s simply no feasible option for NDSU.

The only scenario I see is if the ASUN/WAC do end up moving to the FBS, it could open the door for either the MVFC to move as a group, or for certain schools between the MVFC and Big Sky to form a conference together and move up.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Who’s going to invite them? The MAC showed interest in expansion, but that was by adding Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee, they don’t seem interested in westward expansion. The Mountain West would likely look at either New Mexico State and UTEP, or the Montana schools if they ever need to get new members. There’s simply no feasible option for NDSU.

The only scenario I see is if the ASUN/WAC do end up moving to the FBS, it could open the door for either the MVFC to move as a group, or for certain schools between the MVFC and Big Sky to form a conference together and move up.

It was the other way around. WKU and MTSU showed interest in the MAC, and most assumed they would be invited. But the MAC opted to stand pat with their 12 current members even though those two additions would've improved MBB significantly and would have given the MAC a gateway to southern recruiting grounds.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Who’s going to invite them? The MAC showed interest in expansion, but that was by adding Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee, they don’t seem interested in westward expansion. The Mountain West would likely look at either New Mexico State and UTEP, or the Montana schools if they ever need to get new members. There’s simply no feasible option for NDSU.

The only scenario I see is if the ASUN/WAC do end up moving to the FBS, it could open the door for either the MVFC to move as a group, or for certain schools between the MVFC and Big Sky to form a conference together and move up.

If the WAC/ASUN move up to FBS, what's to stop ANY conference from moving up? Assuming that doesn't happen and status quo continues, the best bet would be for a combination of Big Sky and MVFC schools to work with CUSA and form a "Mountain West" or "Snow Belt" division which would likely also include New Mexico State and UTEP.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Geography is reason #1... FBS conferences with very rare exceptions do not take football only affiliates and the only 2 relatively close geographic fits are the Big 12 and Big Ten and that's laughable to even put NDSU in that conversation. The more realistic ones would be the MAC and MWC and those are the only 2 G5 leagues unaffected by realignment (so far). I doubt the MAC is all that interested in expanding up to ND anyway.

Beyond that it's political. ND is a conservative state that does not appropriate funds to higher education willy nilly. Add that to the fact that there's waaaay too many 4 year state schools in ND (6 I believe) that the higher education funding pie is cut into there's not much for state support so the school has a hard enough time getting state funding for academic projects much less athletic projects. They would have to find their own funds to support an FBS move. The student body has also been resistant to raising (the very minimal in relation to most FCS/G5 athleticndepartment) fees going to the athletic department voting that down several times over the last few years.

There's also the debate about how serious the NDSU administration is about a move. There's a narrative that is gaining steam amongst some vocal fans that NDSU's athletic director isn't being aggressive enough in pitching the school to FBS conferences and not being public enough about the vision for the future of the program and the department. I find this to be pure speculation since anytime these conference realignment stories break it turns out that is has been something in the works for a while so who knows how advanced or not advanced the discussions are between NDSU and prospective FBS conference suitors.

The new WAC is an intriguing option since it could present an option to go FBS while maintaining NDSU's existing conference memberships in all other sports which is important given the low financial impact of those existing memberships in the Summit League and Big 12 (for wrestling). NDSU's president also just announced a $10M budget shortfall so now is not the time to be raising travel/recruiting/coaching salary costs for the non-football sports at NDSU.

Somehow, a conservative state by the name of Alabama doesn't seem to follow that same philosophy.

[Sitting Bull]

FBS is like living in a high end neighborhood that has now doubled its size by adding a trailer park. The attraction is evaporating.

[FUBeAR]

FBS is like living in a high end neighborhood that has now doubled its size by adding a trailer park. The attraction is evaporating.
They added the Trailer Parks when GaSou and Appy moved down.

Now, they are bringing the Homeless, er, UnHoused off the streets into the FBS Shelter, Soup Kitchen & Detox Center.

[Gil Dobie]

Somehow, a conservative state by the name of Alabama doesn't seem to follow that same philosophy.

Alabama has over times the number of tax payers as ND.

[Sitting Bull]

Boise State, the FBS “move up” poster child, just played in the Frisco Bowl last night vs nearby North Texas and attracted 12,000 fans. The game was broadcast on ESPN. The winner got a Frisco Bowl trophy.

Three weeks from now, this same stadium will be packed with near 20,000 fans, many of them ND State Bison fans. The game will be broadcast nationally on ABC. The winner will be the FCS national champion and will receive the NCAA national championship trophy.

[ysubigred]

Boise State, the FBS “move up” poster child, just played in the Frisco Bowl last night vs nearby North Texas and attracted 12,000 fans. The game was broadcast on ESPN. The winner got a Frisco Bowl trophy.

Three weeks from now, this same stadium will be packed with near 20,000 fans, many of them ND State Bison fans. The game will be broadcast nationally on ABC. The winner will be the FCS national champion and will receive the NCAA national championship trophy.Sadly most of the country will still call it division 2 and not know either team exists.



Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

[Sitting Bull]

Sadly most of the country will still call it division 2 and not know either team exists.



Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

The same country considers anyone outside P5 as Division 2. Do people in Ohio really think Kent and Ohio State are really competing in the same division? Makes no difference.

[FUBeAR]

Boise State, the FBS “move up” poster child, just played in the Frisco Bowl last night vs nearby North Texas and attracted 12,000 fans. The game was broadcast on ESPN. The winner got a Frisco Bowl trophy.

Three weeks from now, this same stadium will be packed with near 20,000 fans, many of them ND State Bison fans. The game will be broadcast nationally on ABC. The winner will be the FCS national champion and will receive the NCAA national championship trophy.
But…FUBeAR saw NCCU, an FCS Team, won the National Championship yesterday.
https://twitter.com/reactionsports4/status/1604236286008725505
How can FCS have 2 different National Champions?…That don’t make no sense…

[Professor Chaos]

Somehow, a conservative state by the name of Alabama doesn't seem to follow that same philosophy.
We're getting into the weeds now but with 3 weeks before the next game why not - the other dynamic working against NDSU is the majority of the states lawmakers come from the states law school (which ain't NDSU) and NDSU ruffled feathers in the state legislature in the early 2000s when they moved D1 and in the late 2000s when they showed no interest in resuming the series with UND. If NDSU went FBS without UND they would get next to no help from the state and it would probably even hurt them politically in other areas they ask the state for help in not even related to athletics.

[ysubigred]

The same country considers anyone outside P5 as Division 2. Do people in Ohio really think Kent and Ohio State are really competing in the same division? Makes no difference.No doubt.. and Can't State is still D1 and Youngstown is D2 to the same Ohioans..

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

[Sitting Bull]

No doubt.. and Can't State is still D1 and Youngstown is D2 to the same Ohioans..

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

That’s really splitting hairs. I think they’re smarter than that. It’s Ohio State and everyone else.

[JacksFan40]

That’s really splitting hairs. I think they’re smarter than that. It’s Ohio State and everyone else.
I’m sure Cincinnati falls somewhere in between.

[JacksFan40]

It was the other way around. WKU and MTSU showed interest in the MAC, and most assumed they would be invited. But the MAC opted to stand pat with their 12 current members even though those two additions would've improved MBB significantly and would have given the MAC a gateway to southern recruiting grounds.
From what I saw it was because MTSU opted to remain in C-USA while WKU wanted to move to the MAC, and the MAC wanted them as a package deal, so they didn’t take WKU alone. It was a stupid decision by MTSU. Opted to remain in the most unstable conference and turned down an invite to arguably the most stable conference.

[semobison]

They added the Trailer Parks when GaSou and Appy moved down.

Now, they are bringing the Homeless, er, UnHoused off the streets into the FBS Shelter, Soup Kitchen & Detox Center.

Yeah, GaSou and Appy only had 9 FCS championships between them when they moved up. The Trailer Parks thought they could follow shortly thereafter.

[FUBeAR]

Yeah, GaSou and Appy only had 9 FCS championships between them when they moved up. The Trailer Parks thought they could follow shortly thereafter.
Nah…GaSou & Appy were just a couple of blinged up trailer parks…

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-b3UWo3BePiHmyZCYLYntqobPefNzcfrNiw&usqp=CAU
…still Trashy.

[The Yo Show]

That’s really splitting hairs. I think they’re smarter than that. It’s Ohio State and everyone else.

It is Ohio State above most everyone else, but living in northeast Ohio my whole life, outside of Youngstown proper, most people assume YSU would get destroyed by Akron, Kent, or Ohio "because YSU is D2". Have heard this too many times from very ignorant people.

[Sitting Bull]

It is Ohio State above most everyone else, but living in northeast Ohio my whole life, outside of Youngstown proper, most people assume YSU would get destroyed by Akron, Kent, or Ohio "because YSU is D2". Have heard this too many times from very ignorant people.

Well you said it; ignorant. I don’t get very concerned with what they may think.

[SDFS]

We're getting into the weeds now but with 3 weeks before the next game why not - the other dynamic working against NDSU is the majority of the states lawmakers come from the states law school (which ain't NDSU) and NDSU ruffled feathers in the state legislature in the early 2000s when they moved D1 and in the late 2000s when they showed no interest in resuming the series with UND. If NDSU went FBS without UND they would get next to no help from the state and it would probably even hurt them politically in other areas they ask the state for help in not even related to athletics.

I looked into this statement several years ago and it was simply not true. The majority at that time were NDSU affiliated, which make sense because NDSU is the land grant school and most the rural legislatures are associated with NDSU and North Dakota is a rural state. I am not saying that UND/NDSU have not had political battles. But, recently it has felt like an East (Ag)/ West (Oil) split more than anything. I have always found it interesting that the school with direct ties to all communities in the state via the extension services and such. Thinks that the legislature is out to get them. It is really the fiscal conservative nature of the people in the state. And to be honest, I believe that fiscal conservative values override any affiliation to school. My 2 cents.

The other thing that hurts both UND and NDSU is that all athletic facilities need to be completely funded prior to start of the project and all funds must come from private sources.

[The Yo Show]

Well you said it; ignorant. I don’t get very concerned with what they may think.

I get it. The problem is the "informed" fans make the same argument... "NO YSU is 1-AA, they have many less scholarships"

[NY Crusader 2010]

I get it. The problem is the "informed" fans make the same argument... "NO YSU is 1-AA, they have many less scholarships"

Did they watch the Ohio-Fordham game?

[Professor Chaos]

I looked into this statement several years ago and it was simply not true. The majority at that time were NDSU affiliated, which make sense because NDSU is the land grant school and most the rural legislatures are associated with NDSU and North Dakota is a rural state. I am not saying that UND/NDSU have not had political battles. But, recently it has felt like an East (Ag)/ West (Oil) split more than anything. I have always found it interesting that the school with direct ties to all communities in the state via the extension services and such. Thinks that the legislature is out to get them. It is really the fiscal conservative nature of the people in the state. And to be honest, I believe that fiscal conservative values override any affiliation to school. My 2 cents.

The other thing that hurts both UND and NDSU is that all athletic facilities need to be completely funded prior to start of the project and all funds must come from private sources.
Fair enough... I can agree that it has more to do with the legislature being tight than aligned against NDSU. The end result is the same in terms of lack of support from the state for funding an FBS move. I also wish NDSU and UND were allowed to bond their capital projects - with those types of restrictions from the state there's really no choice but to partner with local entities to build venues like the Fargodome and Alerus Center.

[SDFS]

Fair enough... I can agree that it has more to do with the legislature being tight than aligned against NDSU. The end result is the same in terms of lack of support from the state for funding an FBS move. I also wish NDSU and UND were allowed to bond their capital projects - with those types of restrictions from the state there's really no choice but to partner with local entities to build venues like the Fargodome and Alerus Center.

I absolutely agree. I do think that the public/private partnerships have worked very well for both schools in North Dakota. The FD and Alerus Center are two of the nicest facilities in the FCS. And if both schools look toward FBS, it would be the partnership with the local cities that would be most important and needing to take both of those facilities to another level. To be honest, over the last 20 years the transformation on all four of the Dakota schools has been remarkable.

[NY Crusader 2010]

We're getting into the weeds now but with 3 weeks before the next game why not - the other dynamic working against NDSU is the majority of the states lawmakers come from the states law school (which ain't NDSU) and NDSU ruffled feathers in the state legislature in the early 2000s when they moved D1 and in the late 2000s when they showed no interest in resuming the series with UND. If NDSU went FBS without UND they would get next to no help from the state and it would probably even hurt them politically in other areas they ask the state for help in not even related to athletics.

Makes sense. I think I'd heard this on AGS before. These politics are also what's likely holding NDSU and SDSU back from getting into the Missouri Valley Conference for all sports. You'd have to think by this point that NDSU and SDSU would be pretty attractive adds for the MVC, which has lost some juice the last 10 years with the losses of Creighton, Wichita State and Loyola. But no way the MVC would entertain going all in on all 4 Dakota schools.

[Professor Chaos]

Makes sense. I think I'd heard this on AGS before. These politics are also what's likely holding NDSU and SDSU back from getting into the Missouri Valley Conference for all sports. You'd have to think by this point that NDSU and SDSU would be pretty attractive adds for the MVC, which has lost some juice the last 10 years with the losses of Creighton, Wichita State and Loyola. But no way the MVC would entertain going all in on all 4 Dakota schools.
Uh-oh you're sending out the clenz bat signal. xlolx

I'm not sure there's a ton of mutual interest right now between the XDSUs and the MVC. Both schools would have to be willing to increase budgets for men's basketball (which SDSU is probably more willing to do than NDSU) and I think they like the current Summit League setup that they've essentially owned in terms of men's basketball for the last 10+ years (although that's looking like it might change this year). The MVC also has a very delicate balance of public and private schools that make it difficult for them to get the support to add two publics unless they lose two publics or are also adding two privates.

[taper]

Makes sense. I think I'd heard this on AGS before. These politics are also what's likely holding NDSU and SDSU back from getting into the Missouri Valley Conference for all sports. You'd have to think by this point that NDSU and SDSU would be pretty attractive adds for the MVC, which has lost some juice the last 10 years with the losses of Creighton, Wichita State and Loyola. But no way the MVC would entertain going all in on all 4 Dakota schools.
The xDSU's basketball isn't good enough for the MVC to consider us. Plus, frankly, right now I think the Summit has a brighter future than the MVC. We most definitely had our problems in the recent past but we're stable now. Our new commissioner is looking really good at first glance. We recently put a team in the Sweet 16.

[ST_Lawson]

The only scenario I see is if the ASUN/WAC do end up moving to the FBS, it could open the door for either the MVFC to move as a group, or for certain schools between the MVFC and Big Sky to form a conference together and move up.

If they're going to move up, I think that would be the most likely scenario. Without some more "local" teams, it's not going to happen. But ASUN/WAC clears a lot of "hurdles" that NDSU would have faced moving up with a group of similarly-minded universities.



These politics are also what's likely holding NDSU and SDSU back from getting into the Missouri Valley Conference for all sports. You'd have to think by this point that NDSU and SDSU would be pretty attractive adds for the MVC, which has lost some juice the last 10 years with the losses of Creighton, Wichita State and Loyola. But no way the MVC would entertain going all in on all 4 Dakota schools.

SDSU would be a possibility due to their success in basketball, but I don't think they'd be interested in NDSU or anyone else in the Dakotas. I think if the MVC was looking to add 2 teams from up north, they'd want SDSU and St. Thomas. The private schools will do what they can to minimize the imbalance between public and private schools.

[Milktruck74]

But…FUBeAR saw NCCU, an FCS Team, won the National Championship yesterday.
https://twitter.com/reactionsports4/status/1604236286008725505
How can FCS have 2 different National Champions?…That don’t make no sense…

Separate but equal... In fact the game in Frisco is going top be renamed the Plessy Ferguson Bowl.

[POD Knows]

I am watching the meaningless bowl with Coastal Carolina and some directional school from the Carolinas. This is the third bowl game I have watched and each one is more depressing than the next. If this is what NDSU is supposed to aspire to then I am out. These bowl games are truly depressing.

[Hammerhead]

With the same lame ESPN announcers that did one of the NDSU playoff games.


I am watching the meaningless bowl with Coastal Carolina and some directional school from the Carolinas. This is the third bowl game I have watched and each one is more depressing than the next. If this is what NDSU is supposed to aspire to then I am out. These bowl games are truly depressing.

[POD Knows]

With the same lame ESPN announcers that did one of the NDSU playoff games.
Oh yea, if our local guys were this bad they would be run out of town.

[unknown-swac]

If there was a conference in proximity that wanted them they'd already be gone. Schools like NDSU and Montana and SDSU are basically state flagship schools with hardly anybody to recruit against. Is winning FCS championships even gratifying at this point when it's obvious they have a leg up on everyone else? I guess.

[Sitting Bull]

If there was a conference in proximity that wanted them they'd already be gone. Schools like NDSU and Montana and SDSU are basically state flagship schools with hardly anybody to recruit against. Is winning FCS championships even gratifying at this point when it's obvious they have a leg up on everyone else? I guess.

Gone to what? That’s the problem.

[POD Knows]

The Guaranteed Rate Bowl. God, I wish NDSU could play in that. This company will probably be under some type of SEC investigation within the year.

[MIBT]

I am watching the meaningless bowl with Coastal Carolina and some directional school from the Carolinas. This is the third bowl game I have watched and each one is more depressing than the next. If this is what NDSU is supposed to aspire to then I am out. These bowl games are truly depressing.Am FBS move would not be for post-season games other than a possible CFP spot. It's more about regular season competition and higher profile level. There are benefits of both. The Bison are in an odd situation where they have dominated the FCS level so much is a different comparison.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Gil Dobie]

I am watching the meaningless bowl with Coastal Carolina and some directional school from the Carolinas. This is the third bowl game I have watched and each one is more depressing than the next. If this is what NDSU is supposed to aspire to then I am out. These bowl games are truly depressing.

Haven't watched a bowl game in a few years.

[TribeNomad1]

I am watching the meaningless bowl with Coastal Carolina and some directional school from the Carolinas. This is the third bowl game I have watched and each one is more depressing than the next. If this is what NDSU is supposed to aspire to then I am out. These bowl games are truly depressing.


Unlike you guys out west, these two teams are quite familiar to fans in my region. Even so, I tried to watch it, made it about two minutes.

[Sitting Bull]

Am FBS move would not be for post-season games other than a possible CFP spot. It's more about regular season competition and higher profile level. There are benefits of both. The Bison are in an odd situation where they have dominated the FCS level so much is a different comparison.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

There are greater benefits of maintaining a winning tradition, competing for a national championship, playing local rivalry games that alums and students will find of interest and playing your games on Saturday instead of Tuesday night to accommodate ESPN.

[MIBT]

There are greater benefits of maintaining a winning tradition, competing for a national championship, playing local rivalry games that alums and students will find of interest and playing your games on Saturday instead of Tuesday night to accommodate ESPN.

Those are the Pros to staying FCS. But the only local rivalry games at this point are SDSU and to a lesser extent UND (rival but not very competitive lately). The other schools are only somewhat regional with UNI (450 miles) and Illinois State (690 miles) the closest. Beating teams by large margins is not as exciting for fans as evidenced by the drop in attendance. Winning that many national championships takes away the excitement of each win. And now 5 of the opponents they played (counting SHSU and JMU twice) in the championship, and the two teams that beat them in the playoffs are no longer FCS.

And the MAC only plays mid week games in November. Most only have 3 and no more than 1 or 2 at home. 75% of their games are still Saturdays.

Playing in any of the G5 conferences improves their conference schedule. Plus they also have a better chance of playing P5 games and possibly hosting a lower P5 school. This is why a G5 move is for the regular season. They are doing fine in other sports without any chance of a national championship.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Sitting Bull]

Those are the Pros to staying FCS. But the only local rivalry games at this point are SDSU and to a lesser extent UND (rival but not very competitive lately). The other schools are only somewhat regional with UNI (450 miles) and Illinois State (690 miles) the closest. Beating teams by large margins is not as exciting for fans as evidenced by the drop in attendance. Winning that many national championships takes away the excitement of each win. And now 5 of the opponents they played (counting SHSU and JMU twice) in the championship, and the two teams that beat them in the playoffs are no longer FCS.

And the MAC only plays mid week games in November. Most only have 3 and no more than 1 or 2 at home. 75% of their games are still Saturdays.

Playing in any of the G5 conferences improves their conference schedule. Plus they also have a better chance of playing P5 games and possibly hosting a lower P5 school. This is why a G5 move is for the regular season. They are doing fine in other sports without any chance of a national championship.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Those are big pros and don’t even factor the impact economically or the impact on the rest of NDSus athletic programs. How many sports programs will NDSU have to cut to make this jump? And to play who exactly? And when?

You pretend there’s some huge payback. I guess I’m missing all the pros now in G5. Where are they? A pre Christmas bowl game in an empty stadium? A game at a P5 like Arizona (the Bison played them this year). It’s not there. You dont have to be G5 to play a P5 school - and unless it’s some other low end G5, no P5 is coming to the Fargo Dome. And it’s not just the MAC playing now weekday games. CUSA is now starting to do same in October 2023. The Sunbelt also plays weeknight games. And why? Because they need money to handle the increased cost and travel so they have to let ESPN manage their programs.

The quickest way to kill the Bison football program would be to install them in a G5 conference where they are the outlier and suddenly start running into mediocre seasons against schools no one in ND cares about.

The fact today is the g5 needs schools like NDSU much more than NDSU needs them.

Eventually I think we will see the G5 and upper FCS conferences combine. They actually play the same level of football. At that point, maybe some sanity will return. The P5 is a closed shop and that’s not changing.

[caribbeanhen]

Unlike you guys out west, these two teams are quite familiar to fans in my region. Even so, I tried to watch it, made it about two minutes.

I haven’t watched a Bowl game for a long time and have no desire to ever watch one again

[POD Knows]

Unlike you guys out west, these two teams are quite familiar to fans in my region. Even so, I tried to watch it, made it about two minutes.
I am very familiar with Coastal, NDSU has beaten them before in the FCS playoffs. ECU used to be a doormat but Houston looks like he has improved that program. I am not even taking a dig at the teams at all, just the lameness of the bowl location and fan following.

[Carolina010]

You mean to tell me you’re not excited about the San Diego Country Credit Union Holiday Bowl that’s on tonight and being played inside petco park?

Side not what is the benefit for the San Diego County Credit Union to sponsor a bowl game? How do you justify spending $350,000 - $500,000 to sponsor a game when you are a credit union with 43 branches?

[Sitting Bull]

Unlike you guys out west, these two teams are quite familiar to fans in my region. Even so, I tried to watch it, made it about two minutes.

My first years at W&M and following the team were during the days ECU was one of our bigger rivals. They were always good. I heard the announcer mention Crumpler during the game - he received an award or something there? He was a superb player at ECU, great competitor. The 1977 Oyster Bowl game vs ECU is still one of the greatest game stories for Tribe football.

Always admire ECU and how they built the program there.

[ElCid]

Unlike you guys out west, these two teams are quite familiar to fans in my region. Even so, I tried to watch it, made it about two minutes.

I saw it on the guide while scanning for something to watch. Stopped a few seconds, giggled, and moved on.

[Professor Chaos]

Those are big pros and don’t even factor the impact economically or the impact on the rest of NDSus athletic programs. How many sports programs will NDSU have to cut to make this jump? And to play who exactly? And when?

You pretend there’s some huge payback. I guess I’m missing all the pros now in G5. Where are they? A pre Christmas bowl game in an empty stadium? A game at a P5 like Arizona (the Bison played them this year). It’s not there. You dont have to be G5 to play a P5 school - and unless it’s some other low end G5, no P5 is coming to the Fargo Dome. And it’s not just the MAC playing now weekday games. CUSA is now starting to do same in October 2023. The Sunbelt also plays weeknight games. And why? Because they need money to handle the increased cost and travel so they have to let ESPN manage their programs.

The quickest way to kill the Bison football program would be to install them in a G5 conference where they are the outlier and suddenly start running into mediocre seasons against schools no one in ND cares about.

The fact today is the g5 needs schools like NDSU much more than NDSU needs them.

Eventually I think we will see the G5 and upper FCS conferences combine. They actually play the same level of football. At that point, maybe some sanity will return. The P5 is a closed shop and that’s not changing.
NDSU wouldn't cut any sports with an FBS move because I believe they're already sponsoring the minimum number of sports required to be D1 (their AD has prioritized fully funding all sports versus funding additional sports) so they'd probably have to add a women's sport or two to comply with title IX after adding the football scholarships.

But as for killing NDSU football with a move to the G5 I'd disagree. Even if they're a geographic outlier that's not a big deal for football since they're already flying to many of their conference opponents. The flip side to the argument you're making is NDSU has done everything you can possibly do at the FCS level and then some and the fan interest is dwindling. It's risky to move to the G5 and potentially upset the apple cart but I think they'd be competitive right now with upper tier G5 teams - give them 22 more scholarships and a bigger budget for coaching salaries and recruiting and I'd like their chances.

As more and more schools defect to the FBS there's fewer and fewer like-minded schools to NDSU left in the FCS that prioritize football - that's not a good thing for re-engaging the fan base. It's risky to stay in the FCS at this point as that could stunt the progress that the program is/was making both on and off the football field. Their unprecedented success has almost forced the hand of the NDSU admin. As Big Tom Callahan said in the movie Tommy Boy "You're either growing or you're dying - there ain't no 3rd direction". That's the conundrum NDSU's admin faces when it comes to the monster of a football program they've created.

[POD Knows]

NDSU wouldn't cut any sports with an FBS move because I believe they're already sponsoring the minimum number of sports required to be D1 (their AD has prioritized fully funding all sports versus funding additional sports) so they'd probably have to add a women's sport or two to comply with title IX after adding the football scholarships.

But as for killing NDSU football with a move to the G5 I'd disagree. Even if they're a geographic outlier that's not a big deal for football since they're already flying to many of their conference opponents. The flip side to the argument you're making is NDSU has done everything you can possibly do at the FCS level and then some and the fan interest is dwindling. It's risky to move to the G5 and potentially upset the apple cart but I think they'd be competitive right now with upper tier G5 teams - give them 22 more scholarships and a bigger budget for coaching salaries and recruiting and I'd like their chances.

As more and more schools defect to the FBS there's fewer and fewer like-minded schools to NDSU left in the FCS that prioritize football - that's not a good thing for re-engaging the fan base. It's risky to stay in the FCS at this point as that could stunt the progress that the program is/was making both on and off the football field. Their unprecedented success has almost forced the hand of the NDSU admin. As Big Tom Callahan said in the movie Tommy Boy "You're either growing or you're dying - there ain't no 3rd direction". That's the conundrum NDSU's admin faces when it comes to the monster of a football program they've created.
Great post and I agree with everything you stated, for the record, I support the move up in football, I just won't be going to any weak assed bowl games that they may find themselves in with the move. I will still buy my season tickets and try to make a few away games, unless they end up in the MAC, then I have no desire to go to any of those destinations.

[Sitting Bull]

For this entire subject to make any sense, you have to provide a specific, real home that NDSU would be trading off their football program and who are their new conference mates. A generic “G5” makes absolutely no sense. If it’s any of the current G5 leagues, it’s a dead end move.

[NY Crusader 2010]

In a make-believe world where NDSU isn't politically tied at the hip to the University of North Dakota, the G5 conference that makes the most sense for them to jump up to would be the Mountain West, if the league were interested. And they'd be a major outlier. Bus trips gone in all sports. Laramie, Fort Collins and Colorado Springs would be the closest road destinations in conference. Long way from the ND-MN border where Fargo is located.

I can't see either party (the state of North Dakota, the school, or the league) having interest in a MAC move.

[Professor Chaos]

For this entire subject to make any sense, you have to provide a specific, real home that NDSU would be trading off their football program and who are their new conference mates. A generic “G5” makes absolutely no sense. If it’s any of the current G5 leagues, it’s a dead end move.


In a make-believe world where NDSU isn't politically tied at the hip to the University of North Dakota, the G5 conference that makes the most sense for them to jump up to would be the Mountain West, if the league were interested. And they'd be a major outlier. Bus trips gone in all sports. Laramie, Fort Collins and Colorado Springs would be the closest road destinations in conference. Long way from the ND-MN border where Fargo is located.

I can't see either party (the state of North Dakota, the school, or the league) having interest in a MAC move.
There is no perfect fit or even a great fit but the MWC would probably be the best of a bunch of not great options for NDSU as an FBS conference home. Football would be fine but I'd worry about the rest of the sports due to increased travel cost and the increased cost of being competitive in general (men's basketball, for instance, would have to at least triple it's current budget to stay competitive). Some of those costs would be offset by increased money from the conference media deal, increased NCAA men's basketball tournament shares, and CFP shares but NDSU is still going to have to figure out how to raise more money to keep all their sports competitive.

The other option is if this "new WAC" can get some legs it would provide a football only home for NDSU in the FBS allowing them to get their proverbial "foot in the door" while allowing the rest of the sports to stay put. Ideally, a similar conglomerate of schools between the MVFC and Big Sky could potentially do the same as the new WAC if that's allowed to happen or, if there's not enough willing partners, NDSU could potentially join the new WAC with its current conglomerate of schools as I'd assume they'd be open to adding a program the caliber of NDSU to give the fledgling FBS league some more name recognition if it does work out.

[unknown-swac]

For this entire subject to make any sense, you have to provide a specific, real home that NDSU would be trading off their football program and who are their new conference mates. A generic “G5” makes absolutely no sense. If it’s any of the current G5 leagues, it’s a dead end move.

FCS is a dead end move..which is why teams keep leaving. G5 is still a step up from FCS no matter how much people refuse to accept it here. The only thing keeping them here is their location.

[jacksfan29!]

In a make-believe world where NDSU isn't politically tied at the hip to the University of North Dakota, the G5 conference that makes the most sense for them to jump up to would be the Mountain West, if the league were interested. And they'd be a major outlier. Bus trips gone in all sports. Laramie, Fort Collins and Colorado Springs would be the closest road destinations in conference. Long way from the ND-MN border where Fargo is located.

I can't see either party (the state of North Dakota, the school, or the league) having interest in a MAC move.

Is NDSU (or for that matter SDSU) tied to the UXD in their state? I keep hearing people from outside the region say this, but the reality, both schools moved to D1 long before the UXD's moved. No one stopped them. No politician stepped in. The schools were not punished. Criticized yes, by those in the state who said the schools would fail, but no one stopped either from going.

I highly doubt anyone stops NDSU or SDSU from moving up if the offer to a league is made available.

[unknown-swac]

I am watching the meaningless bowl with Coastal Carolina and some directional school from the Carolinas. This is the third bowl game I have watched and each one is more depressing than the next. If this is what NDSU is supposed to aspire to then I am out. These bowl games are truly depressing.

Most people felt the same way about those playoff games...which is why hardly anyone watched or attended. Sometimes you just have to be real with yourself.

[unknown-swac]

There are greater benefits of maintaining a winning tradition, competing for a national championship, playing local rivalry games that alums and students will find of interest and playing your games on Saturday instead of Tuesday night to accommodate ESPN.

Except their fans have already lost interest in dominating the FCS. Pretty obvious by the attendance. At this point they just expect to win it every year. It's literally no competition.

[Professor Chaos]

Is NDSU (or for that matter SDSU) tied to the UXD in their state? I keep hearing people from outside the region say this, but the reality, both schools moved to D1 long before the UXD's moved. No one stopped them. No politician stepped in. The schools were not punished. Criticized yes, by those in the state who said the schools would fail, but no one stopped either from going.

I highly doubt anyone stops NDSU or SDSU from moving up if the offer to a league is made available.
The states couldn't (or at least wouldn't) stop the schools from going FBS but the state could make life "difficult" for the schools which is not a ideal situation for NDSU to be in right now with a $10.5M budget shortfall right now due to decreased enrollment. The ND legislature actually drafted a bill in the early 2010s that would require NDSU and UND to play every year in football. IIRC it didn't even make it to committee but there would definitely be some hawk feathers ruffled in the state legislature if NDSU jumped ship just a few years after UND joined their conference again.

[Sitting Bull]

Except their fans have already lost interest in dominating the FCS. Pretty obvious by the attendance. At this point they just expect to win it every year. It's literally no competition.

I keep hearing this but you wouldn’t believe it if you saw last years National Championship game in Frisco which was flooded with Bison fans who have apparently “lost interest” - or even the recent semifinal. Any of the pathetic G5 bowls the past week would dream to have that kind of turnout.

[POD Knows]

Most people felt the same way about those playoff games...which is why hardly anyone watched or attended. Sometimes you just have to be real with yourself.
We will have more people go to an FCS playoff game in Fargo than will go to some ****hole destination, like Birmingham, for a bowl game, you can make book on that.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Most people felt the same way about those playoff games...which is why hardly anyone watched or attended. Sometimes you just have to be real with yourself.

You're not wrong with the majority of your argument that the G5 is for the most part a more desirable place to be than FCS. Not going to list the reasons here, you already know. Proof lies in the fact that in the last 30 years only one and a half programs have ended up moving back down to FCS after moving up => Idaho and Florida A&M. Only ONE I-A/FBS program has dropped football in that timeframe (Pacific) without re-starting it soon after (with UAB being the lone example of the latter).

But the attendance at FCS playoff games definitely dwarfs the lower-level bowl games -- talking about actual people in seats watching the game, not counted attendance because of ticket allotments schools were forced to buy, which is what happens at these ferkakta bowl games. And the time slots are better too. Friday night and Saturday as opposed to mid-week games the week leading up to Christmas and the week between Christmas and New Year's. Many of these bowl games are during the day when people are at work. Holy Cross-South Dakota State in the quarters was on at noon ET, and was the only football game on in the time slot leading up to the Army-Navy game, which has always been standalone on CBS at 330pm.

Say what you want about NDSU fans being jaded to the point where they don't even come close to selling out the Fargo Dome during the playoffs but the energy and engagement by their core fans dwarfs any kind of atmosphere they'd experience in a low-end bowl game in Mobile, AL, Las Cruces, NM or Detroit.

[taper]

Is NDSU (or for that matter SDSU) tied to the UXD in their state? I keep hearing people from outside the region say this, but the reality, both schools moved to D1 long before the UXD's moved. No one stopped them. No politician stepped in. The schools were not punished. Criticized yes, by those in the state who said the schools would fail, but no one stopped either from going.

I highly doubt anyone stops NDSU or SDSU from moving up if the offer to a league is made available.
ND politicians didn't stop the D1 move because they completely believed NDSU would fail. I was a student at the time and remember the amount of opposition. NDSU failure was considered a good thing by a lot of people. Our win at Montana while still D2 but after the D1 announcement quieted a lot of voices, but it's easy to forget how many people were opposed. Politicians might not make the "mistake" again.

[ST_Lawson]

I haven’t watched a Bowl game for a long time and have no desire to ever watch one again

I'll watch the "big ones"...the "playoff bowls" and occasionally the remaining of the traditionally "New Year's Day" bowl games. Beyond that, I have zero interest in what is essentially an "exhibition game" often in front of just as many people as we have at WIU games (that's not many, just fyi).

[Sitting Bull]

FCS is a dead end move..which is why teams keep leaving. G5 is still a step up from FCS no matter how much people refuse to accept it here. The only thing keeping them here is their location.

To be specific, it’s about a home that works for not only football, but the entire program. Moving to G5 from FCS - unless you have a home that makes sense for your school and all sports (I.e, JMU to Sunbelt) - it’s a dead end. That’s why JMU waited 10 years. And beyond Idaho (who came back to reality), others have paid a price (UMass, ODU) and continue to.

Secondly, as long as the Ivy League plays in FCS, it will never be irrelevant. They are home to 8 of the top 20 universities in the USA. That stature doesn’t come cheap and doesn’t go away. Ironic they don’t participate in the playoffs (they should) but their presence will always bring interest, media and attention.

Third, the vast majority rightly see college football as P5 and everyone else. As long as I’m in the everyone else column, I want to be playing games on Saturday against meaningful rivals. And maybe you get a legit shot at a national championship. That’s why G5 is a dead end

[Gil Dobie]

Except their fans have already lost interest in dominating the FCS. Pretty obvious by the attendance. At this point they just expect to win it every year. It's literally no competition.

Most of those fans that are missing today, are bandwagon fans that didn't have strong ties to NDSU. The real fans still love the playoff games.

[POD Knows]

Most of those fans that are missing today, are bandwagon fans that didn't have strong ties to NDSU. The real fans still love the playoff games.
Here is what I do not understand about the “bandwagon” fans. You would think they would be more interested in the playoff games than regular season games. That is the dynamic that happens in all sports, the bandwagoners get interested when the teams are winning at the end of the year and the playoffs. They stay home during the regular season

[JacksFan40]

The P5 bowls have looked like they had pretty good attendance. Arkansas-Kansas in the Liberty Bowl looked pretty packed, as did Oregon-UNC in the Holiday Bowl. I’d imagine Syracuse-Minnesota in the Pinstripe Bowl will have good attendance, FSU-Oklahoma in the Cheez-It Bowl will be packed, and Texas-Washington will fill the Alamo Bowl.

The P5 bowls still get very good attendance, it’s just the G5 bowls that don’t. Which is to be expected since they don’t exactly have as big of fan bases. Those G5 teams still seemed to care about winning their bowl game though.

[MSUBobcat]

I am watching the meaningless bowl with Coastal Carolina and some directional school from the Carolinas. This is the third bowl game I have watched and each one is more depressing than the next. If this is what NDSU is supposed to aspire to then I am out. These bowl games are truly depressing.

Normally I catch some of these bowl games while sitting at the watering hole. This year I haven't watched a single one yet. Even though it's football on TV, it's just not that appealing.

[MIBT]

Here is what I do not understand about the “bandwagon” fans. You would think they would be more interested in the playoff games than regular season games. That is the dynamic that happens in all sports, the bandwagoners get interested when the teams are winning at the end of the year and the playoffs. They stay home during the regular seasonI wonder if some of them are purchased by corporations and used for client entertaining. They plan in advance who to take to each game and have other events around the game. They don't buy any for the playoffs because they don't have time in less than a week to coordinate travel and events for clients. Purely hypothetical since I don't know how many season tickets are large corporate blocks. That's been my experience with sports tickets at places I've worked. We would bring in clients from around the country and make it a big deal. We would only get a couple tickets for the playoffs so the senior execs could still go.
Normally I catch some of these bowl games while sitting at the watering hole. This year I haven't watched a single one yet. Even though it's football on TV, it's just not that appealing.I've watched several. Many have been very entertaining. The players are definitely all in and there have been some fun finishes.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[BisonBacker]

NDSU wouldn't cut any sports with an FBS move because I believe they're already sponsoring the minimum number of sports required to be D1 (their AD has prioritized fully funding all sports versus funding additional sports) so they'd probably have to add a women's sport or two to comply with title IX after adding the football scholarships.

But as for killing NDSU football with a move to the G5 I'd disagree. Even if they're a geographic outlier that's not a big deal for football since they're already flying to many of their conference opponents. The flip side to the argument you're making is NDSU has done everything you can possibly do at the FCS level and then some and the fan interest is dwindling. It's risky to move to the G5 and potentially upset the apple cart but I think they'd be competitive right now with upper tier G5 teams - give them 22 more scholarships and a bigger budget for coaching salaries and recruiting and I'd like their chances.

As more and more schools defect to the FBS there's fewer and fewer like-minded schools to NDSU left in the FCS that prioritize football - that's not a good thing for re-engaging the fan base. It's risky to stay in the FCS at this point as that could stunt the progress that the program is/was making both on and off the football field. Their unprecedented success has almost forced the hand of the NDSU admin. As Big Tom Callahan said in the movie Tommy Boy "You're either growing or you're dying - there ain't no 3rd direction". That's the conundrum NDSU's admin faces when it comes to the monster of a football program they've created.

^^^^^REP GIVEN^^^^^^^

[UNAPride]

From D1.ticker:

With North Dakota State once again set to play in the FCS Championship, questions continue on the future conference home for the Bison. Here’s what NDSU AD Larsen tells The Athletic: “A lot of things have changed in the last 10 years. You’d be crazy if you weren’t looking internally about what’s best for you. [...] Outside of the highest levels of FBS where geography doesn’t matter anymore, it still does for most conferences. We have a great brand, but with certain geography, I would venture to say if we were in a different part of the country, we would have received an invite by now.” As for Bison FB HC Entz: “Just in terms of football, I think our best fit is the American. From a geographical standpoint, there are (four) in Texas, plus Tulsa. Those are in the Central time zone and (others are) in the East, so it would fit for our fans and TV. From a travel standpoint, flying to Dallas is just as fast as Youngstown or Macomb, Illinois.” More.

https://theathletic.com/4058193/2023/01/05/north-dakota-state-football-fbs-move/

[unknown-swac]

It's pretty obvious at this point. If they were in the South along with App, Georgia Southern, Coastal, etc they would already be in the Sunbelt or CUSA by now. Just a matter of geography. There's no way they take joy in beating up on FCS every year at this point.

[caribbeanhen]

Normally I catch some of these bowl games while sitting at the watering hole. This year I haven't watched a single one yet. Even though it's football on TV, it's just not that appealing.

Sundays championship game will be first football game for me since FCS Semis

[Winterborn]

It's pretty obvious at this point. If they were in the South along with App, Georgia Southern, Coastal, etc they would already be in the Sunbelt or CUSA by now. Just a matter of geography. There's no way they take joy in beating up on FCS every year at this point.

I enjoy beating SDSU and UND no matter division they (or us) are in.

[Sitting Bull]

FCS is a dead end move..which is why teams keep leaving. G5 is still a step up from FCS no matter how much people refuse to accept it here. The only thing keeping them here is their location.

FCS or boredom at ND State sure didn’t look like a dead end on TV yesterday. If anything, for anyone who watched any of the lame G5 bowl games with no fans and no emotion, it showed the farcical nature of G5 football.

[ElCid]

FCS or boredom at ND State sure didn’t look like a dead end on TV yesterday. If anything, for anyone who watched any of the lame G5 bowl games with no fans and no emotion, it showed the farcical nature of G5 football.

Some of these people are being sold on it. They think they are somehow getting a gold ring by being FBS. They have classification envy. It's funny to watch. Sometimes it's obviously warranted. Other times, most times, it's just an attempt to try and make themselves relevant because it's the only gage they have in their mind.

[kdinva]

I think if the Champ game was played at SMU (33,000 seats), all would have been sold....

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think if the Champ game was played at SMU (33,000 seats), all would have been sold....

IIRC, attendance at the Frisco Bowl (MAC v. AAC I think) was so bad in 2021 that it wasn't even listed. Probably 2-3,000. This year, I believe North Texas was in it so that helped a bit.

[Sitting Bull]

I think if the Champ game was played at SMU (33,000 seats), all would have been sold....

Just curious, it looked to my eye that virtually the entire stadium were either SDSU or NDSU supporters. That on its own is very impressive. Wondering though, is there any local promotion in the Dallas metro for the game? If I lived in Dallas, I would have loved attending yesterday. You just knew it was going to be a spectacle.

[WestCoastAggie]

With all of this talk of NDSU to the MWC, why aren’t we speaking the same about SDSU?

These two moving up together could be the best item, especially if it’s a football-only move.

Apologies if this was mentioned already.

[POD Knows]

NDSU needs to move up now, seeing as how they are irrelevant in the FCS, i.e., SHSU, JMU, JSU and other ones such as App St and GOSO

[katss07]

Just curious, it looked to my eye that virtually the entire stadium were either SDSU or NDSU supporters. That on its own is very impressive. Wondering though, is there any local promotion in the Dallas metro for the game? If I lived in Dallas, I would have loved attending yesterday. You just knew it was going to be a spectacle.
Frisco does a pretty decent job promoting the game, although you don’t see much promotion of it within DFW at large. But there are signs and postings around Frisco usually and they push it on socials.

[Christiank22]

NDSU needs to move up now, seeing as how they are irrelevant in the FCS, i.e., SHSU, JMU, JSU and other ones such as App St and GOSO

We missed the boat a few years ago. We are stuck regressing now. I will not be surprised to see NDSU not even make the playoffs next year

[taper]

We are. Here's a recent quote from their HC:

"I've talked to the president, I've talked to the athletic director and they have told me — I'm quoting them — we need to be ready," SDSU head coach John Stiegelmeier said. "If we get the ask, are we ready to make a decision? Not are we ready to make the move. Are we ready to make a decision?"
The xDSU's are joined at the hip. I honestly don't see a successful FBS move for either without the other.
Oh, and a FB only invite is pure fantasy by those that are trying to ignore geography and basketball. Reality is our best chance at an invite is backfilling realignment dominoes. A conference needs full members in that case. The only FB affiliates in all of FBS are Navy and Hawaii, and I hope people can see why both of those are very special cases.

[Winterborn]

We are. Here's a recent quote from their HC:

The xDSU's are joined at the hip. I honestly don't see a successful FBS move for either without the other.
Oh, and a FB only invite is pure fantasy by those that are trying to ignore geography and basketball. Reality is our best chance at an invite is backfilling realignment dominoes. A conference needs full members in that case. The only FB affiliates in all of FBS are Navy and Hawaii, and I hope people can see why both of those are very special cases.

[/FONT][/COLOR]

Agree. The ground work has been done and we are just waiting on the right time.

[NDSU1980]

Responding to WestCoast Auggie, for some reason it wouldn't quote your post, but you were wondering about SDSU, so here goes.

SDSU doesn't seem have any interest. NDSU will have to go it alone, which is fine. We are not "joined at the hip" as some people would have you believe. That's just another of the many strawman arguments to keep us FCS.

What's holding us back is a narrow minded AD.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Responding to WestCoast Auggie, for some reason it wouldn't quote your post, but you were wondering about SDSU, so here goes.

SDSU doesn't seem have any interest. NDSU will have to go it alone, which is fine. We are not "joined at the hip" as some people would have you believe. That's just another of the many strawman arguments to keep us FCS.

What's holding us back is a narrow minded AD.

But aren't you "joined at the hip" to UND? Or is it also just an excuse? Because IIRC correctly NDSU and SDSU moved up to I-AA at the same time and it wasn't until 4 or 5 years later that UND and USD moved up.

What's holding NDSU back is not being invited to an FBS conference. Because as we all know, the ability to move up to FBS is about a lot more than being good at football. In fact, that's not even a requirement at all!

[jacksfan29!]

Responding to WestCoast Auggie, for some reason it wouldn't quote your post, but you were wondering about SDSU, so here goes.

SDSU doesn't seem have any interest. NDSU will have to go it alone, which is fine. We are not "joined at the hip" as some people would have you believe. That's just another of the many strawman arguments to keep us FCS.

What's holding us back is a narrow minded AD.

I'm confused. Can I ask where you get your comment "SDSU doesn't seem TO (FIFY) have any interest?" Bisonville?

[NDSU1980]

Can't quote Jacks fan

I recall earlier in the year where Stig said he had no interest or something to that effect. If you're interested now, that's good. Maybe SDSU can drag NDSU kicking and screaming into the big leagues. NDSU's AD sure won't do it.

[taper]

For all non-NDSU fans, remember that every school has their share of irrational fans. When someone's only view is "It's somebody else's fault that all my dreams haven't come true", feel free to completely ignore them.

[jacksfan29!]

Can't quote Jacks fan

I recall earlier in the year where Stig said he had no interest or something to that effect. If you're interested now, that's good. Maybe SDSU can drag NDSU kicking and screaming into the big leagues. NDSU's AD sure won't do it.

I've never heard that. I'd be surprised if Stig said anything other than, he's happy in FCS. But Stig is the coach, not the AD or the President. I do recall our AD stating that SDSU would be prepared for any changes or opportunities. And as always, I would guess it would come down to whether the offer was the correct fit and a good opportunity for all SDSU programs. SDSU will not sacrifice our Olympic sports for football. In other words, SDSU is not going to jump at a CUSA all sports move to play lesser competition. If a football only invite came, and the league was quality and not dregs, just like NDSU, SDSU would look very hard at taking that invite.

[NDSU1980]

Jacks fan, I don't remember who said it, I honestly don't but I sorta thought it was in some sports reporters column on the net. At any rate, I'd love to have SDSU move up with us. My wife is an SDSU alum.

So, does SDSU have a few irrational fans who want to stay FCS Forever and try and monopolize the idea of never moving up? Smart thing would be to ignore those people.

It really hasn't been much discussion about SDSU moving up, so keep us informed.

[RabidRabbit]

Both SDSU & NDSU still have the proximity issue as when moved to D 1. The only D 1 allsports league that makes sense for Jacks is an upper, western midwest league. Even the MAC is too far east. MoValley? Possibly, but that's no longer a major improvement over the Summit. Please note that the Summit is principally the old NCC. Only missing No CO and UNI as 1923-2006 longer term members that have moved to D1. Mountain and Pacific time zone conference mates aren't nearly as good as the sioux falls based Summit league,especialy fo SDSU.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[UNAPride]

Interesting statement made by former University of Montana AD Jim O'Day on Nuanez Now-ESPN Missoula on July 13:

"NDSU & SDSU presidents are actively trying to get into the Mountain West. They're actively trying to get in."

http://https://twitter.com/MattKerney/status/1679711932193075200

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Interesting statement made by former University of Montana AD Jim O'Day on Nuanez Now-ESPN Missoula on July 13:

"NDSU & SDSU presidents are actively trying to get into the Mountain West. They're actively trying to get in."

http://https://twitter.com/MattKerney/status/1679711932193075200


Yeah this seems to have some legitimate legs if you dig a little deeper....

[BisonFan02]

The Montana schools have a better shot as a pair than the Dakota SUs.....which is slightly higher than 0.

[Professor Chaos]

I don't know about SDSU but NDSU's admin should be extremely motivated to pursue FBS opportunities since NDSU football is slowly dying on the vine. The fan base is pretty clearly speaking with their feet/wallets as season ticket sales are lower than they've been in 10+ years (the awful home schedule doesn't help) and tickets sales for their "showcase game" at US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis are lagging far behind what the Target Field game drew 4 years ago.

The price of this unprecedented success is that the allure of winning FCS titles has apparently worn away collectively amongst the fan base. It's unfortunate and sad IMO but there's no denying it's existence. It puts NDSU's admin in a tough spot because there's a lot working against them in terms of geography and market (or lack thereof) when trying to pitch themselves to an FBS league. They also need to consider the impact on the rest of the sports in the department. Joining a league like CUSA wouldn't hurt NDSU football but it would really hamper the non-revenue sports. That said football drives the bus at NDSU's athletic department and that golden cow is starting to dry up which is a concern for all sports.

[Sitting Bull]

I don't know about SDSU but NDSU's admin should be extremely motivated to pursue FBS opportunities since NDSU football is slowly dying on the vine. The fan base is pretty clearly speaking with their feet/wallets as season ticket sales are lower than they've been in 10+ years (the awful home schedule doesn't help) and tickets sales for their "showcase game" at US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis are lagging far behind what the Target Field game drew 4 years ago.

The price of this unprecedented success is that the allure of winning FCS titles has apparently worn away collectively amongst the fan base. It's unfortunate and sad IMO but there's no denying it's existence. It puts NDSU's admin in a tough spot because there's a lot working against them in terms of geography and market (or lack thereof) when trying to pitch themselves to an FBS league. They also need to consider the impact on the rest of the sports in the department. Joining a league like CUSA wouldn't hurt NDSU football but it would really hamper the non-revenue sports. That said football drives the bus at NDSU's athletic department and that golden cow is starting to dry up which is a concern for all sports.

I keep hearing how complacent the Bison fan base is and then watch thousands flood Frisco TX to try and win another national championship.

[caribbeanhen]

I keep hearing how complacent the Bison fan base is and then watch thousands flood Frisco TX to try and win another national championship.

because they like beer and getting out of Flawgo in January

[Professor Chaos]

I keep hearing how complacent the Bison fan base is and then watch thousands flood Frisco TX to try and win another national championship.
Relative to most of the FCS the support is still very strong - relative to 5-10 years ago it's dwindling. When NDSU played Towson in Frisco in January 2014 we basically filled the stadium ourselves. The last 2 years against Montana St and SDSU the crowd has pretty much been 50/50 and I think if NDSU were to play another Towson like team that would only bring a couple thousand fans there you'd see a lot of empty seats in Frisco.

[AmsterBison]

There was a trolling post on this. Sorry. Why does NDSU stay in FBS —- Mine is a real question

1- People say G5 offers less money. That’s just not true. G5 pays more. Thus App GSU. Coastal Carolina. JMU. Etc etc

2- Is it a geographic thing? I saw something about ASUN?

or am I missing the real reason?? Doe the admin just like FCS?

a legitimate question. Thanks in advance for answers

It's geography. Personally, I really like the FCS because it has the best playoff system in college football, nor do I think that NDSU belongs in a division where football budgets are larger than NDSU's total academic budget and football coaches salaries alone are multiples of the entire cost of NDSU's athletic department.

The ideal situation to me would be for the G5 teams to move to the FCS, not the other way around. Of course, I'm kind of a heretic in that I believe that the NCAA should have kicked the P5 out long ago - whatever the P5 is up to, it's certain that it has to almost nothing do with higher ed's mission. This split would allow for some real NCAA reform. There is already no benefit for D2 and D3 to have the P5 around - the table scraps that the P5 spits onto to their plates could be made up with an incredibly modest ticket surcharge. And if the P5-less D1 had a 200 team basketball playoff, it would be more interesting than the P5's version (imo.)

[FUBeAR]

Not sure about all this recent success y’all are claiming for NDSU. It’s been almost 800,000 minutes since the bizuns won a National Championship.

800,000

[Preferred Walk-On]

Not sure about all this recent success y’all are claiming for NDSU. It’s been almost 800,000 minutes since the bizuns won a National Championship.

800,000

That alone should make Bison fans hungry for another FCS title. It should really make any other team, except SDSU, hungry; however, even the Jacks haven't won a title in at least 230,400 minutes.

230,400

[Gil Dobie]

Not sure about all this recent success y’all are claiming for NDSU. It’s been almost 800,000 minutes since the bizuns won a National Championship.

800,000

Bias post unless you post the number of minutes since Furman has won a title.

[ysubigred]

Bias post unless you post the number of minutes since Furman has won a title.The numbers won't fit on the page [emoji2960]

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

[KPSUL]

Relative to most of the FCS the support is still very strong - relative to 5-10 years ago it's dwindling. When NDSU played Towson in Frisco in January 2014 we basically filled the stadium ourselves. The last 2 years against Montana St and SDSU the crowd has pretty much been 50/50 and I think if NDSU were to play another Towson like team that would only bring a couple thousand fans there you'd see a lot of empty seats in Frisco.

Not sure what you mean by another Towson Like Team. Do you mean a team that got to the Nat. Championship via as tough a road as anyone - Traveling to a Jimmy G led E. Illinois team and winning in the Quarterfinals, and then to Eastern Washington the next weekend and winning in the Semifinals? Or do you mean a team with an AD so stupid that he made the Towson ticket allocation available to ANYONE from day one?

[Professor Chaos]

Not sure what you mean by another Towson Like Team. Do you mean a team that got to the Nat. Championship via as tough a road as anyone - Traveling to a Jimmy G led E. Illinois team and winning in the Quarterfinals, and then to Eastern Washington the next weekend and winning in the Semifinals? Or do you mean a team with an AD so stupid that he made the Towson ticket allocation available to ANYONE from day one?
I mean a team that'll only bring a couple thousand fans either because they opened their ticket allocation early so opposing fans can buy them or because that's just all they'll pull. NDSU isn't going to bring 18k+ fans to Frisco anymore like they did that year even if tickets from the opposing allotment are available publicly.