Can Josh Johnson win the Payton Award?

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Or will San Diego's strength of schedule factor into the decision? I know Colgate had a Payton award winner in 2003 but they did play in three playoff games before the award was decided. I am looking at the Payton watch and it doesn't look like anyone has any numbers comparable to him.

[stevdock]

Or will San Diego's strength of schedule factor into the decision? I know Colgate had a Payton award winner in 2003 but they did play in three playoff games before the award was decided. I am looking at the Payton watch and it doesn't look like anyone has any numbers comparable to him.

Unfortunately for him, strength of schedule will probably have some factor in the decision, because his stats are so much better than everyone else on the list. I think he's got a decent chance though of winning, but my guess is he will come up just short.

[HensRock]

I think the award is decided before ANY playoff games are played.
It's just that they announce it before the NC game.
The 3 top vote getters are known in advance and are invited to the award ceremony which occurs the night before the NC game.

The 3 "finalists" are announced in a press release, but obviously the number of votes each received is not released until after the award is presented.

But to answer your question, Yes, I think it's possible but Delaware's Joe Flacco just put on a clinic for a national audience against Navy, who is a much tougher opponent than anyone on USD's schedule. xpeacex

[HensRock]

After reading my response, I think I need to make it a little clearer. And I'm going from memory, so I might be wrong, (but I'm sure everyone here on AGS is far too polite to correct me if I'm wrong)

1. Members of the media vote for the Payton Award immediately after the regular season finishes.

2. During playoff week 1, the top 3 vote winners are announced as "Finalists" for the award, but the number of votes each received remains a secret.

3. 3 rounds of playoffs are played

4. Evening before the NC Game, there is an award ceremony and the 3 finalists are invited to attend. The winner is announced and the full voting results are released to the press.

[stevdock]

The question that I have about the Payton award which I don't know the answer to is how much does the team's success play into being a finalist for this award. In the Heisman race, you often hear that the QB's win-loss record plays into it. Does that happen with the Payton also? And if it does why isn't Steve Walker a finalist this year? All he has done is win games. Stats might not blow anyone away but he can make most throws on the field and completely leads the team on the field. His TD-INT is very good, especially if you take out his first game this year, where he threw 4, but at least 2 weren't his fault.

[Stang Fever]

The question that I have about the Payton award which I don't know the answer to is how much does the team's success play into being a finalist for this award. In the Heisman race, you often hear that the QB's win-loss record plays into it. Does that happen with the Payton also? And if it does why isn't Steve Walker a finalist this year? All he has done is win games. Stats might not blow anyone away but he can make most throws on the field and completely leads the team on the field. His TD-INT is very good, especially if you take out his first game this year, where he threw 4, but at least 2 weren't his fault.

I would say the record doesnt mean anything. Eric Meyer won it and his team was 6-5 or something like that. As for no ones numbers close to Josh johnson, thats not true at ALL

CAL POLY you need to take a look at our QB's Stats, I am sorry but they are just as good. But he is not on the list. BUT our WR is

Ramses Bardens Numbers are pretty much off the chart. So I would say he has just as good a chance to win it as Josh johnson Does.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I think the award is decided before ANY playoff games are played.
It's just that they announce it before the NC game.
The 3 top vote getters are known in advance and are invited to the award ceremony which occurs the night before the NC game.

The 3 "finalists" are announced in a press release, but obviously the number of votes each received is not released until after the award is presented.

But to answer your question, Yes, I think it's possible but Delaware's Joe Flacco just put on a clinic for a national audience against Navy, who is a much tougher opponent than anyone on USD's schedule. xpeacex

My other top contenders (might be leaving someone out, i'm going by TSN's "Payton Watch")

1. Joe Flacco - hard to argue against 301 yards passing per game, 72% completions, 2408 total yards passing, and still three games left to play.

2. Jayson Foster - 1288 yards rushing, 849 yards passing, 2,137 total yards. Rushing numbers are better than any running back, with 7.2 YPC so far.

3. Ricky Santos - being his usual Ricky Santos self.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I would say the record doesnt mean anything. Eric Meyer won it and his team was 6-5 or something like that. As for no ones numbers close to Josh johnson, thats not true at ALL

CAL POLY you need to take a look at our QB's Stats, I am sorry but they are just as good. But he is not on the list. BUT our WR is

Ramses Bardens Numbers are pretty much off the chart. So I would say he has just as good a chance to win it as Josh johnson Does.

They couldn't have been 6-5. They went to the playoffs that year.

[andy7171]

Dave Meggett won it at Towson (State) in 1988 and Towson was 5-5.

[grizband]

They couldn't have been 6-5. They went to the playoffs that year.
They were Big Sky Co-Champions, but I believe got the auto-bid at 7-5.

[Stang Fever]

7-5, 6-5 close enough right. But it goes to show you that you don't have to be 11-0 or 8-3 to win the Payton Award, if you have the skills to win it, you will win it. As for Josh Johnson and no other QB, call me a Homer but his numbers are great but we have a QB who's numbers are pretty darn close.


J. Daily 1840yds Passing; 23 Touchdowns vs 1 INT; 215 Effic rating; 55% completion (this is an amazing stat but it is what it is); 509yds Rushing; 9 touchdowns.

compare that to Josh johnson

2082 yds passing; 30 touchdowns vs 1 INT; 200 QB rating; 512 rushing yards; 2 touchdowns.


Pretty darn close if you ask me. Not going to even bring up strength of schedule.

[HensRock]

My other top contenders (might be leaving someone out, i'm going by TSN's "Payton Watch")

1. Joe Flacco - hard to argue against 301 yards passing per game, 72% completions, 2408 total yards passing, and still three games left to play.

2. Jayson Foster - 1288 yards rushing, 849 yards passing, 2,137 total yards. Rushing numbers are better than any running back, with 7.2 YPC so far.

3. Ricky Santos - being his usual Ricky Santos self.

Let's not forget Omar Cuff who is on track to tie or break several I-AA scoring records:
Points in a single game: 42 (has already tied it)
TDs in a single game: 7 (has already tied it)
Points in a single season: 186 by Kevin Richardson of App State last year (in 15 games). Omar has 168 so far in 8 games
TD's in a season: 31 also by Kevin Richardson. Omar already has 28.
Most TD per Game in a season: 2.7 held by Jerry Rice, 1984 (27 TD in 10 games). Omar is currently averaging 3.5 TD/game (28/8)
Most points/game Season: 16.2 by Jerry Rice, Omar is averaging 21 ppg.

[Retro]

It's not so much about wins and losses as it is how the player did againest all competition and was the competition quality..

If a player tanks it againest the best teams on the schedule, then that will hurt him.. At the same time, if a player just has 3-4 games where his numbers are out of this world and it was againest the weakest teams and the rest of the year was average, then i think that hurts him..

I believe the quality of competition hurt Bruce Eugene, even though he was in the top 3 for 2 years straight. He had a chance to put up some numbers againest Mcneese, but didn't. Had he done better againest Mcneese, then it might have won.

[bluehenbillk]

Omar Cuff has been walking around all season with the trophy, ever since his opening night 7TD performance against W&M. Hasn't slowed down much since.

[Purple For Life]

Don't forget our very own Eric Sanders...he's been kickin' arse every week.

[Dane96]

Why are we talking about this. The one team they played with any SOS appeal, Dayton, shut Josh down. Yes, his feet kept them in the game, but he didnt perform that well. Arguably, not even in the Payton discussion anymore.

[blueballs]

The Payton will go to wither Sanders or Santos as a lifetime achievement award.

As for Cuff, don't forget a certain #3 when comparing records. ;)

[blur2005]

Nope.

[mcveyrl]

Let's not forget Omar Cuff who is on track to tie or break several I-AA scoring records:
Points in a single game: 42 (has already tied it)
TDs in a single game: 7 (has already tied it)
Points in a single season: 186 by Kevin Richardson of App State last year (in 15 games). Omar has 168 so far in 8 games
TD's in a season: 31 also by Kevin Richardson. Omar already has 28.
Most TD per Game in a season: 2.7 held by Jerry Rice, 1984 (27 TD in 10 games). Omar is currently averaging 3.5 TD/game (28/8)
Most points/game Season: 16.2 by Jerry Rice, Omar is averaging 21 ppg.

I'm surprised that nobody from GSU has spoken up yet...xrolleyesx

[eaglesrthe1]

I'm surprised that nobody from GSU has spoken up yet...xrolleyesx


Yep... it's sad the way that the NCAA has cheapened season long and career records.

[Pauly LB]

7-5, 6-5 close enough right. But it goes to show you that you don't have to be 11-0 or 8-3 to win the Payton Award, if you have the skills to win it, you will win it. As for Josh Johnson and no other QB, call me a Homer but his numbers are great but we have a QB who's numbers are pretty darn close.


J. Daily 1840yds Passing; 23 Touchdowns vs 1 INT; 215 Effic rating; 55% completion (this is an amazing stat but it is what it is); 509yds Rushing; 9 touchdowns.

compare that to Josh johnson

2082 yds passing; 30 touchdowns vs 1 INT; 200 QB rating; 512 rushing yards; 2 touchdowns.


Pretty darn close if you ask me. Not going to even bring up strength of schedule.

Actually, as far as I am concerned it is impossible to compare the two quarterbacks with considering the strength of schedule.

SO...

I will bring up the strength of schedule. According to the Jeff Sagarin rankings, out of 242 ranked FCS & FBS teams, Cal Poly plays the 185th toughest schedule and San Diego plays the 238th toughest schedule. Of course this means that ONLY 4 teams in division one football play easier schedules than San Diego. While this is not one of Cal Poly's tougher schedules over the past few years, San Diego continues to avoid the tough games. By the way, they proved that a year ago when they declined an opportunity to play Cal Poly.

None of this means that Josh Johnson is not a fine football player. It only means that over his career he has not played against top notch competition.

[Stang Fever]

Actually, as far as I am concerned it is impossible to compare the two quarterbacks with considering the strength of schedule.

SO...

I will bring up the strength of schedule. According to the Jeff Sagarin rankings, out of 242 ranked FCS & FBS teams, Cal Poly plays the 185th toughest schedule and San Diego plays the 238th toughest schedule. Of course this means that ONLY 4 teams in division one football play easier schedules than San Diego. While this is not one of Cal Poly's tougher schedules over the past few years, San Diego continues to avoid the tough games. By the way, they proved that a year ago when they declined an opportunity to play Cal Poly.

None of this means that Josh Johnson is not a fine football player. It only means that over his career he has not played against top notch competition.
I agree with you 100%, I dont want to say CAL POLY is plyaing leaps and bounds better teams then USD but my point got provied lasts saturday about Johnson.

That even though he is more then likely a really GREAT PLAYER. you have to take his stats with a grain of Salt and judge him off of pure RAW talent, which is why and what the NFL loves. Being a High NFL prospect doesnt mean you are a great player, but more of a great athlete with potential.

I for one think Johnson is one of the best QB's in the NATION ATHLETICALLY but doesn mean he is the BEST QB, cause his numbers go WAY down when he has played any team worth a squat. i.e UC DAVIS last year. and again DAYTON this year. Hands down if there is a QB i would want leading my team against a cream puff schedule it would more then liely be HIM. But if I wanted a QB to take me into battle with top notch comp, I am sorry, it wouldnt be him

[DetroitFlyer]

Josh Johnson should win the Payton award, hands down. He is by far, the best athlete and the best QB in FCS football, bar none. Mark my words, of the QB’s drafted from FCS this year, JJ will go first.

Now, let me give all you geniuses a lesson on why NONE of you are NFL scouts….

You try to throw out the lame argument that JJ’s performance goes down against good teams like Dayton or UC Davis, ( last season )…. Well guess what folks; football is a TEAM game…. Let me say it again so you do not miss it…. Football is a team game.

Do you think that JJ’s performance just might be impacted by the players around him on the USD team? I have absolutely no doubt from what I have read on this board that most of you firmly believe that almost to a man, USD is not nearly as talented as your favorite, full scholarship team….

So, using your logic put JJ behind Delaware’s offensive line, or Northern Iowa’s offensive line…. Or put him behind your favorite, full scholarship team’s offensive line…. Do ya think his “numbers” might just be a bit better…? Well guess what, NFL scouts think they just might be, that is why JJ has drawn so much attention!

Yeah, I know that you simply cannot get your mind around the best player in FCS football coming from a little ole, non-scholarship, program. Too bad, JJ is the real deal and he should win the Payton award hands down!

[gasouthern01]

The question that I have about the Payton award which I don't know the answer to is how much does the team's success play into being a finalist for this award. In the Heisman race, you often hear that the QB's win-loss record plays into it. Does that happen with the Payton also? And if it does why isn't Steve Walker a finalist this year? All he has done is win games. Stats might not blow anyone away but he can make most throws on the field and completely leads the team on the field. His TD-INT is very good, especially if you take out his first game this year, where he threw 4, but at least 2 weren't his fault.

I will tell you speaking as a voter, the teams success does not hold much water with me. I look at a young mans stats and the competition that he did it against. I do not think it is any 1 person's fault is a team has a down year, so I base my vote mostly on Stats and how he performed against tough competiton. There are also many highlight dvd's sent out from the schools media departments whose young men are in the Payton race, this is very helpful to some voters that may never get a chance to see certain teams play.

[Stang Fever]

Josh Johnson should win the Payton award, hands down. He is by far, the best athlete and the best QB in FCS football, bar none. Mark my words, of the QB’s drafted from FCS this year, JJ will go first.

Now, let me give all you geniuses a lesson on why NONE of you are NFL scouts….

You try to throw out the lame argument that JJ’s performance goes down against good teams like Dayton or UC Davis, ( last season )…. Well guess what folks; football is a TEAM game…. Let me say it again so you do not miss it…. Football is a team game.

Do you think that JJ’s performance just might be impacted by the players around him on the USD team? I have absolutely no doubt from what I have read on this board that most of you firmly believe that almost to a man, USD is not nearly as talented as your favorite, full scholarship team….

So, using your logic put JJ behind Delaware’s offensive line, or Northern Iowa’s offensive line…. Or put him behind your favorite, full scholarship team’s offensive line…. Do ya think his “numbers” might just be a bit better…? Well guess what, NFL scouts think they just might be, that is why JJ has drawn so much attention!

Yeah, I know that you simply cannot get your mind around the best player in FCS football coming from a little ole, non-scholarship, program. Too bad, JJ is the real deal and he should win the Payton award hands down!

I agree with you 100% percent. But being a Highest QB taken in FCS doesnt mean you are the best QB in all of FCS. Take Travis Jackson (the Vikings QB, I think I spelled his name right) he was taken in the 2nd round, he wasnt the best QB in FCS, just the one the projected well into the NFL

[andy7171]

Josh Johnson should win the Payton award, hands down. He is by far, the best athlete and the best QB in FCS football, bar none. Mark my words, of the QB’s drafted from FCS this year, JJ will go first.

Now, let me give all you geniuses a lesson on why NONE of you are NFL scouts….

You try to throw out the lame argument that JJ’s performance goes down against good teams like Dayton or UC Davis, ( last season )…. Well guess what folks; football is a TEAM game…. Let me say it again so you do not miss it…. Football is a team game.

Do you think that JJ’s performance just might be impacted by the players around him on the USD team? I have absolutely no doubt from what I have read on this board that most of you firmly believe that almost to a man, USD is not nearly as talented as your favorite, full scholarship team….

So, using your logic put JJ behind Delaware’s offensive line, or Northern Iowa’s offensive line…. Or put him behind your favorite, full scholarship team’s offensive line…. Do ya think his “numbers” might just be a bit better…? Well guess what, NFL scouts think they just might be, that is why JJ has drawn so much attention!

Yeah, I know that you simply cannot get your mind around the best player in FCS football coming from a little ole, non-scholarship, program. Too bad, JJ is the real deal and he should win the Payton award hands down!
Is the Payton Award given to the FCS player most likely first drafted by the NFL? xcoffeex

[HensRock]

Yep... it's sad the way that the NCAA has cheapened season long and career records.

Yes, I agree that AP's accomplishments should be recognized.
Please remind me what some of AP records would have been if the NCAA recognized post-season stats.

For instance, the TD record of 31 in a season held by Kevin Richardson of App State (2006). What was AP's best year scoring-wise?

[gasouthern01]

Yes, I agree that AP's accomplishments should be recognized.
Please remind me what some of AP records would have been if the NCAA recognized post-season stats.

For instance, the TD record of 31 in a season held by Kevin Richardson of App State (2006). What was AP's best year scoring-wise?


Take a look at these stats for AP:

1998 2,606 yards 34 TD's
1999 2,704 yards 40 TD's
2000 2,056 yards 19 TD's (missed 2 games due to injury)
2001 1,795 yards 21 TD's

Total 9,161 yards and 114 TD's

That is SICK!! And don't forget, he didn't play in half of the 4th wtrs of those games b/c GSU was destroying everyone during that time. Of the 57 gamjes he played in, he rushed for over 100 in 54 of them.

http://www.southern-connection.com/ap/aptotals.htm

[HensRock]

Josh Johnson should win the Payton award, hands down. He is by far, the best athlete and the best QB in FCS football, bar none. Mark my words, of the QB’s drafted from FCS this year, JJ will go first.

Now, let me give all you geniuses a lesson on why NONE of you are NFL scouts….

You try to throw out the lame argument that JJ’s performance goes down against good teams like Dayton or UC Davis, ( last season )…. Well guess what folks; football is a TEAM game…. Let me say it again so you do not miss it…. Football is a team game.

Do you think that JJ’s performance just might be impacted by the players around him on the USD team? I have absolutely no doubt from what I have read on this board that most of you firmly believe that almost to a man, USD is not nearly as talented as your favorite, full scholarship team….

So, using your logic put JJ behind Delaware’s offensive line, or Northern Iowa’s offensive line…. Or put him behind your favorite, full scholarship team’s offensive line…. Do ya think his “numbers” might just be a bit better…? Well guess what, NFL scouts think they just might be, that is why JJ has drawn so much attention!

Yeah, I know that you simply cannot get your mind around the best player in FCS football coming from a little ole, non-scholarship, program. Too bad, JJ is the real deal and he should win the Payton award hands down!

If you're putting him behind Delaware's offensive line or UNI's offensive line, you are also putting him up against Hofstra's or Richmond's or JMU's or SIU's or WIU's or YSU's defenses. It's easy to have gaudy stats when you are head-n-shoulders above everyone else on the field. Surround that same player with better talent on BOTH offense and defense and I think the stats come down - not up.

But since you are obviously an NFL scout, I would be interested in your opinion of Joe Flacco of Delaware. Have you seen him play?

[HensRock]

1999 2,704 yards 40 TD's


Thanks.
Now see, the NCAA should go back and THESE should be records.
2704 yards in single season beats Jamal Branch (Colgate) 2326 in 2003.
40 TD in a single season beats Kevin Richardson (App State) 2006.

Did AP do any other scoring in that season? (like 2 pt conversions, etc.)
240 (maybe more?) points in a single season should be a record too.

[gasouthern01]

I gotta tell you hensrock, i don't ever remember GSU going for 2 points while AP was there. I do know that he threw 1 or 2 TD passes in his career though. Man that guy was amazing to watch. I agree with you, since the stats now include playoffs, they need to go back and include it for previous years.

[DetroitFlyer]

I have not seen Flacco play, but his size alone has to be appealing to NFL scouts. I see that he was invited to the Hula Bowl as well which tells me the scouts are VERY interested. I do not think, purely based on what I have read, that Flacco has any where near the overall athleticism of Josh Johnson. Head to head, everything I have read leads me to believe that JJ is simply a better overall athlete. ( I have seen JJ play several times ). In fact, I have seen speculation that JJ may not even end up as a QB in the NFL.... He might go as a receiver or defensive back.... Heck, against Dayton, he even punted a ball.... IF a QB from FCS is drafted before JJ, it will be Flacco, but at this point I do not see it happening....

That said, either of them could go up or down in the Hula Bowl, ( Flacco ) or the East West Shrine Game, ( JJ ). I hope they both do well and sign lucrative NFL contracts and then remember where they came from and donate lots of money back to their schools.... ( Of course JJ has to pay back his student loans first ).

And I still think that JJ should win the Payton award, hands down!!

[GannonFan]

Maybe someone did say it, but I can't believe anyone thinks Flacco is a better athlete than Johnson - heck, I could outrun Flacco. However, as a QB, that's not necessarily what he has to do. He does have the best arm I've ever seen in 36 years of watching FCS ball and I think that goes a long way to being a great QB. He sees the field very well, doesn't throw many picks (3 this year I think) and just manages the game great. Don't need to be a great athlete to be a great QB - Flacco's a great QB without being a great athlete..

[Dane96]

Since DetroitFlyer is a QB scout now, let me tell him the truth about the NFL:

The NFL has a huge vacuum at QB. In fact, after Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Brett Favre, you have a serious drop off in skill and talent.

NFL scouts, coaches, and analysts (read: specifically six former QB's: Salisbury, Jaworski, Simms, Young, Aikman, and Bradshaw) have all stated that this "athletic" QB experiment might be over.

NFL teams are mediocre right now (aside from 3-4 teams) because of QB play.

You will see teams value more of the "classic drop back" passer in upcoming drafts.

So, point being-- Josh has great overall athletic skills, however he has arguably played against four good teams: Monmouth, Yale, Dayton, and UC.

That is an aside from the conversation: His lack of comp and his sub-par performances against the one team he has played that was good this year will keep the voters from giving him the Payton Award.

[DetroitFlyer]

Here is the dirty little secret that you do not want to be uncovered. Josh Johnson is also the best drop back passer in FCS! JJ can do it all. Not only is he athletic, he can pass, he can run, he can do more than any other FCS QB is virtually any aspect of the game.

And, I'll say it again.... JJ did not have poor games against UCD last year or Dayton this year. San Diego had poor games against UCD and Dayton. JJ is just so much better than the rest, that I think he will win the Payton award this year!

[Nebuta]

I be completely shocked if Omar did not pick up the hardware this year....
Its not even close.
And a far far far 2nd JJ.
Omar has been out of this world. He is on pace for 35+ TD this year.
JJ has not face nearly the competition Omar has.
You put JJ against a CAA conference schedule, he doesnt put up nearly the numbers.

Lock it up.
Engrave the trophy.

[ChickenMan]

I have not seen Flacco play, but his size alone has to be appealing to NFL scouts. I see that he was invited to the Hula Bowl as well which tells me the scouts are VERY interested. I do not think, purely based on what I have read, that Flacco has any where near the overall athleticism of Josh Johnson. Head to head, everything I have read leads me to believe that JJ is simply a better overall athlete


and that would be a important if they were competing in the 'Decathlon' rather than the NFL.


Athleticism in an NFL QB is not nearly as important as you seem to believe. If it were.. Michael Vick would have easily been the 'best' QB in the NFL and the fact is.. that Vick wasn't close to being ranked with the top NFL QB's. The top QB's in the NFL are guy like Peyton Manning.. Tom Brady and Carson Palmer. Any one of those guys scare you with their great athleticism??? Of course not.. they are all QB's with limited athleticism.. but they are all guys who beat you with their head and their arms.. not their legs.

Athleticism is nice.. but there are other.. much more important factors to be considered when evaluating a college QB's NFL potential.

[GannonFan]

I have not seen Flacco play ...


Josh Johnson is also the best drop back passer in FCS!

Glad you didn't need to do any research to come to that conclusion. xrolleyesx

[andy7171]

Just think what Flacco's stats would be vs Azuza, Valpo and Marist!

[Rob Iola]

Maybe someone did say it, but I can't believe anyone thinks Flacco is a better athlete than Johnson - heck, I could outrun Flacco. However, as a QB, that's not necessarily what he has to do. He does have the best arm I've ever seen in 36 years of watching FCS ball and I think that goes a long way to being a great QB. He sees the field very well, doesn't throw many picks (3 this year I think) and just manages the game great. Don't need to be a great athlete to be a great QB - Flacco's a great QB without being a great athlete..

Nube here - gotta agree w/GannonFan. I've seen Gannon play (and Komlo and Brunner), in fact I've seen Gannon play Navy, and all UD and by extension UD competitor QBs from then until now - Flacco is the best pure passer of the bunch. Last Saturday at Navy was indeed a clinic (long throws, short throws, timing routes, check-downs, etc.).

All that said, Cuff should walk off with the Payton (and score 3 TDs while doing it).

[HensRock]

Josh Johnson is also the best drop back passer in FCS! JJ can do it all.

Sorry, but you lose all credibility your constant use of superlatives. You've admitted you've never seen Joe Flacco play. I'm guessing you've never seen Troy Elder, Ricky Santos, Nick Hill, Liam Coen, Derrick Forroux, or Eric Sanders play either - not to mention the other non-QB candidates on the Payton watch list.

I'll admit, I've never seen Josh Johnson except on a highlight reel. But I'm not saying absolute things like...

X should win the Payton award, hands down. He is by far, the best athlete and the best QB in FCS football, bar none

X is also the best drop back passer in FCS!

X can do more than any other FCS QB is virtually any aspect of the game.

You still have not addressed the point I made about JJ not facing the quality of defenses that other candidates have faced either. As the talent on BOTH sides of the ball around you increases, your ability to dominate decreases, and your stats go down.

[DetroitFlyer]

Sorry, but you lose all credibility your constant use of superlatives. You've admitted you've never seen Joe Flacco play. I'm guessing you've never seen Troy Elder, Ricky Santos, Nick Hill, Liam Coen, Derrick Forroux, or Eric Sanders play either - not to mention the other non-QB candidates on the Payton watch list.

I'll admit, I've never seen Josh Johnson except on a highlight reel. But I'm not saying absolute things like...

X should win the Payton award, hands down. He is by far, the best athlete and the best QB in FCS football, bar none

X is also the best drop back passer in FCS!

X can do more than any other FCS QB is virtually any aspect of the game.

You still have not addressed the point I made about JJ not facing the quality of defenses that other candidates have faced either. As the talent on BOTH sides of the ball around you increases, your ability to dominate decreases, and your stats go down.

It is not just JJ facing a higher quality defense it is the ENTIRE University of San Diego football TEAM!!!!! If your argument is valid at all, answer my question.... If JJ was playing on whatever team you think has the best offense in all of FCS land, how would he compare to the other candidates? To argue that all stats go down if the competition everywhere is "better" makes no sense at all. San Diego, as a team, is obviously very competitive with the other teams they play in the PFL and OOC. While playing on that team, JJ rules. Put JJ on any other team in FCS and his numbers would be the same. Heck, I could argue that if JJ had Delaware's offensive line and Cuff in the backfield, his numbers would be so high that they would be off the chart!

[ChickenMan]

Heck, I could argue that if JJ had Delaware's offensive line and Cuff in the backfield, his numbers would be so high that they would be off the chart!


you could.. but it won't be a rational arqument... :p

[Nebuta]

It is not just JJ facing a higher quality defense it is the ENTIRE University of San Diego football TEAM!!!!! If your argument is valid at all, answer my question.... If JJ was playing on whatever team you think has the best offense in all of FCS land, how would he compare to the other candidates? To argue that all stats go down if the competition everywhere is "better" makes no sense at all. San Diego, as a team, is obviously very competitive with the other teams they play in the PFL and OOC. While playing on that team, JJ rules. Put JJ on any other team in FCS and his numbers would be the same. Heck, I could argue that if JJ had Delaware's offensive line and Cuff in the backfield, his numbers would be so high that they would be off the chart!

Okay, let me get this straight, what your saying is its a the ENTIRE TEAM, not just the one individuals performance. Its how he would measure up if he had the right people around him. SOUNDS RIDICULOUS but I will bite.
So If Omar had the Colts offensive line and the Pats defense, he would get the ball more times because the offensive would always be on the field (Thanks 3 and out defense) and drops 70+ TDs because Hoody wants to run up the score. Gotcha... Makes sense to me.

[UMass922]

If there was a dearth of other candidates, I'd give Johnson a chance . . . but that's just not the case. The schedule matters.

I will be rooting for Johnson (as I do for all FCS players) when his NFL chance comes, though.

[HensRock]

It is not just JJ facing a higher quality defense it is the ENTIRE University of San Diego football TEAM!!!!! If your argument is valid at all, answer my question.... If JJ was playing on whatever team you think has the best offense in all of FCS land, how would he compare to the other candidates? To argue that all stats go down if the competition everywhere is "better" makes no sense at all. San Diego, as a team, is obviously very competitive with the other teams they play in the PFL and OOC. While playing on that team, JJ rules. Put JJ on any other team in FCS and his numbers would be the same. Heck, I could argue that if JJ had Delaware's offensive line and Cuff in the backfield, his numbers would be so high that they would be off the chart!

I don't know who has the best offense in all of FCS, so I'll just use Delaware as an example and answer your question that way.

I beleive if you were to take Joe Flacco and swap him with Josh Johnson then Flacco's stats would improve and Johnson's stats would fall off. (That is assuming both has adequate time to familiarize themselves with their new teammates, offensive system, etc.)

My resoning is this (this is only the 3rd time I'm explaining this - AND THE LAST):
You are not only placing JJ in the Offense of Delaware, but you are also making him face the defenses that Delaware has faced. Look it's a simple "survival of the fittest" biological concept here. Take an organism and place it in an environment with inferior organisms - it dominates and thrives. Take that same organism and put it in an environment with other organisms that are closer to being it's peer - it doesn't dominate like it did before.

You can't look at only one side of the equation (the offense). You have to consider the entire environment.

[BlueHen86]

It is not just JJ facing a higher quality defense it is the ENTIRE University of San Diego football TEAM!!!!! If your argument is valid at all, answer my question.... If JJ was playing on whatever team you think has the best offense in all of FCS land, how would he compare to the other candidates? To argue that all stats go down if the competition everywhere is "better" makes no sense at all. San Diego, as a team, is obviously very competitive with the other teams they play in the PFL and OOC. While playing on that team, JJ rules. Put JJ on any other team in FCS and his numbers would be the same. Heck, I could argue that if JJ had Delaware's offensive line and Cuff in the backfield, his numbers would be so high that they would be off the chart!

If I take LaDainian Tomlinson and put him on the local youth football team he will likely score everytime he touches the ball, even if his O-line can't block.
Why? Because I've surrounded him with inferior talent and he can dominate. It is easier to put up good numbers against weak competion that it is against strong competition.
According to your argument, every great college player would go on to become a great NFL player, which obviously isn't the case.

[poly51]

From the NCAA website.

Championship Subdivision (FCS) National Player Report
Passing Efficiency

Year: 2007 Thru: 10/29/07 Minimum Pct. of Games Played 75
Minimum 15 pass attempts per game

Rank Player Pos Cl Gm Patt Pcomp Comppct Int Intpct Pyds Ydspatt TDs TDpct Rating
1 Jonathan Dally, Cal Poly QB JR 8 143 79 55.24 1 .70 1840 12.87 23 16.08 215.0
2 Josh Johnson, San Diego QB SR 7 206 142 68.93 1 .49 2082 10.11 30 14.56 200.9
3 Trey Elder, Appalachian St. QB SR 6 90 59 65.56 2 2.22 941 10.46 8 8.89 178.3
4 Ricky Santos, New Hampshire QB SR 7 212 158 74.53 2 .94 1949 9.19 17 8.02 176.3
5 Nick Hill, Southern Ill. QB SR 8 201 144 71.64 4 1.99 1902 9.46 17 8.46 175.1
6 Derrick Fourroux, McNeese St. QB SO 8 153 93 60.78 4 2.61 1483 9.69 14 9.15 167.2
7 Joe Flacco, Delaware QB SR 8 254 185 72.83 3 1.18 2408 9.48 13 5.12 167.0
8 Rodney Landers, James Madison QB JR 8 147 99 67.35 3 2.04 1355 9.22 11 7.48 165.4
9 Liam Coen, Massachusetts QB JR 8 197 130 65.99 7 3.55 1729 8.78 18 9.14 162.8
10 Eric Sanders, Northern Iowa QB SR 8 186 144 77.42 5 2.69 1654 8.89 9 4.84 162.7

[andy7171]

If UNH makes a deep run into the playoffs, I would think Santos gets it. If not, it's Cuff's to lose.

[GannonFan]

If UNH makes a deep run into the playoffs, I would think Santos gets it. If not, it's Cuff's to lose.

Playoffs don't count - votes are in at the end of the regular season. xrulesx

[Ivytalk]

Answer: No. Next question!xcoolx

[UNHWildCats]

I think the three finalists will be Santos, Cuff and Hill.

[andy7171]

Answer: No. Next question!xcoolx
Well put.
Thank you.

[DetroitFlyer]

Answer: No. Next question!xcoolx

Let me correct that for you!

Answer, YES!! Next question!

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I think the three finalists will be Santos, Cuff and Hill.

If Cuff is a finalist, I think Jayson Foster will be one, too...

Foster - 1288 yards rushing, 7.2 YPC
Cuff - 1004 yards, 5.1 YPC
Both player have had (I assume) 8 starts so far this season.

On top of that, he has 849 yards passing.

[ChickenMan]

If Cuff is a finalist, I think Jayson Foster will be one, too...

Foster - 1288 yards rushing, 7.2 YPC
Cuff - 1004 yards, 5.1 YPC
Both player have had (I assume) 8 starts so far this season.

On top of that, he has 849 yards passing.




Foster should be given serious consideration.

[UMass922]

Foster should be given serious consideration.

I think so too.

[GannonFan]

I think the three finalists will be Santos, Cuff and Hill.

Agree with others - drop Hill and put in Foster.

[UNHWildCats]

im not saying there the three best players, im just guessing that someone from the midwest or west is among the top 3, its unlikely all 3 finalists will be from the east coast.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Agree with others - drop Hill and put in Foster.


Agreed. The funny thing is, Flacco is much more valuable to the Hens offense than Cuff is. Remove Cuff from the equation, we would still be OK. Remove Flacco and forgeddaboudit.

[UNHWildCats]

Agreed. The funny thing is, Flacco is much more valuable to the Hens offense than Cuff is. Remove Cuff from the equation, we would still be OK. Remove Flacco and forgeddaboudit.

I was gonna put Flacco instead of Cuff, I just think Cuff will gtet more love from the voters. But yes Flacco prolly deserves a top 3 spot.

[GOTOREROS]

Payton Award? I wondering how many NFL rings Josh Johnson will win! :D

[UNHWildCats]

Payton Award? I wondering how many NFL rings Josh Johnson will win! :D


Prolly more then an FBS QB who goes high in the draft cause they end up with constantly sucky teams. Going in 3rd round or later can be a benefit cause you may end up backing up a great QB like Manning or Brady and enter great systems with a great cast of players around you.

[Seven Would Be Nice]

He can't win it if Foster wins it!!!

:D :D :D :D

[bulldog10jw]

I'm not so sure he can't. Amazing stats again today:

Passing - 31-35-416 yards no INT's - 5 TD's

Rushing - 11-49 yards

[UNHWildCats]

And who did he play? :p