Atlantic Sun, WAC teams pairing up to attempt move to FBS, sources say

[Professor]

The remaining football members of the Atlantic Sun and WAC have agreed to align to form the foundation of a 10-member football-only conference, sources told ESPN, with the intention of becoming the 11th FBS conference.
Sources said the founding documents for the league state the group intends to move "from what is currently known as FCS football to what is currently known as FBS football at the earliest practicable date."
The schools that have signed on to join the league are WAC football members Stephen F. Austin (https://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/2617/stephen-f-austin-lumberjacks), Abilene Christian (https://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/2000/abilene-christian-wildcats), Utah Tech (https://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/3101/utah-tech-trailblazers), Southern Utah (https://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/253/southern-utah-thunderbirds) and Tarleton State (https://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/2627/tarleton-texans) and Atlantic Sun football members Austin Peay (https://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/2046/austin-peay-governors), Eastern Kentucky (https://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/2198/eastern-kentucky-colonels), Central Arkansas (https://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/2110/central-arkansas-bears) and North Alabama (https://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/2453/north-alabama-lions).
EDITOR'S PICKS

https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2022/1208/r1104134_1296x1296_1-1.jpg&w=130&h=130&scale=crop&location=center (https://www.espn.com/college-football/insider/story/_/id/35211710/fcs-quarterfinals-top-games-key-player-updated-title-odds)FCS quarterfinals preview: Connelly breaks down the top game, marquee player and title odds (https://www.espn.com/college-football/insider/story/_/id/35211710/fcs-quarterfinals-top-games-key-player-updated-title-odds)2hBill Connelly


UT Rio Grande Valley (https://www.espn.com/football/team/_/id/18834/ut_rio_grande_valley), which recently announced it is starting a program, is also expected to join in 2025, in that program's first season, as the league's 10th member.
The goal is for the conference to start playing in 2024 with nine members. Ambiguity looms around the process to becoming an FBS league, however. All the schools that play in the FCS will also need to go through a formal transition process.



https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/35216756/atlantic-sun-wac-teams-pairing-move-fbs-sources-say

[Professor Chaos]

I'll be watching how this plays out very intently. If they can pull this off forming a new football only FBS conference I would love to see a similar coalition of schools from the Big Sky and the MVFC (including my Bison of course) try the same thing.

Sounds like there's some NCAA legal/procedural hurdles to clear but I'd think (hope???) these discussions are already progressed quite a ways if the media is reporting on it.

[taper]

Before anyone gets worked up over NCAA bylaws forbidding this, Liberty already called their bluff. NCAA is very likely to lose yet another anti-trust suit if they tried to stop a serious attempt at a new FBS conf.

[BEAR]

I've heard from a pretty good source that this is happening. Also from an FBS coach that the two BIG FBS conferences will break away from the NCAA in 5 years and form football only conferences that will be corporate sponsored and the athletes will not be attending college. Kind of a semi-pro league. Gentlemen if this is all true then football as we know it is about to be OVER.

[Libertine]

Also, from the OP ESPN article:


The process of becoming the 11th FBS league is not certain because there is currently a moratorium in NCAA Division I on single-sport conferences. Ending that moratorium would require a vote from the NCAA Division I board of directors or a creative solution for league affiliation.

Aside from simple economic reality, this ^^ would be a massive hurdle and is not an anti-trust issue.

[TribePride52]

The article also mentions the ASUN-WAC is looking to add “at least four high profile FCS programs.” Wonder who those teams are.

[mvemjsunpx]

I've heard from a pretty good source that this is happening. Also from an FBS coach that the two BIG FBS conferences will break away from the NCAA in 5 years and form football only conferences that will be corporate sponsored and the athletes will not be attending college. Kind of a semi-pro league. Gentlemen if this is all true then football as we know it is about to be OVER.

People have been saying stuff like this for at least 15 years, though.

[F'N Hawks]

I can see a big boy setup similar to the NFL. "NFC and AFC". 20-24 teams in each or whatever. A friend at an FBS school actually was the one that stated it, not it means it's happening but an idea being floated.

[Professor Chaos]

The article also mentions the ASUN-WAC is looking to add “at least four high profile FCS programs.” Wonder who those teams are.
Woah... that was just added since it wasn't there when I initially read the article.

My guesses would involve several teams playing today and tomorrow.

[WestCoastAggie]

The SWAC hasn't publicly come out with this but they're planning to do the same thing. Will the CFP wanna split up their money pie at least two more ways?

[Professor Chaos]

The SWAC hasn't publicly come out with this but they're planning to do the same thing. Will the CFP wanna split up their money pie at least two more ways?
That's a question we all know the answer to. Even if the NCAA doesn't block this they don't control the CFP so CFP access and money would be a different battle.... one that the current G5 conferences would be more than willing to fight I'd bet.

[BEAR]

People have been saying stuff like this for at least 15 years, though.

That's true. But I think the transfer portal change, the NIL inclusion, and basically every conference giving the NCAA the middle finger lately have changed things. This really may be beyond what the NCAA can handle.

[atthewbon]

https://twitter.com/MattBrownEP/status/1601233030395428865?s=20

Another interesting part of the article "League officials have begun early conversations with at least four other high-profile FCS programs." Coupled with this tweet from Matt Brown and previous rumors from Montana State about the desire to go FBS from earlier this year. Could this mean Montana, Montana st, NDSU, and SDSU? It would be a football only conference so it could make more sense financially.

[uofmman1122]

The article also mentions the ASUN-WAC is looking to add “at least four high profile FCS programs.” Wonder who those teams are.
lmao well yeah, they basically need to because that would be objectively and definitively the worst FBS conference by a huge margin.

[Libertine]

The article also mentions the ASUN-WAC is looking to add “at least four high profile FCS programs.” Wonder who those teams are.

I can tell you right now:
* William and Mary will join from the CAA
* Cal Poly will join from the Big Sky
* Eastern Michigan is planning on leaving the MAC and dropping back to FCS for two weeks just long enough to join the ASUN-WAC and move back up to FBS. When asked what this move will do for EMU, athletic director Scott Wetherbee answered, "Absolutely nothing. But it's 2022 and chaos is the new normal."
*Rose State College, a juco from Oklahoma is adding football as the cornerstone program of adding athletics in general as they transition to being a four-year institution. Reached for comment, Rose State president Jeannie Webb stated, "Wait, we're doing what now?"

All of the above is a complete lie but this information is at least as confirmed as anything in the ESPN article. Sources say.

[uofmman1122]

https://twitter.com/MattBrownEP/status/1601233030395428865?s=20

Another interesting part of the article "League officials have begun early conversations with at least four other high-profile FCS programs." Coupled with this tweet from Matt Brown and previous rumors from Montana State about the desire to go FBS from earlier this year. Could this mean Montana, Montana st, NDSU, and SDSU? It would be a football only conference so it could make more sense financially.
I would so much rather the better schools/ones able to actually do it from the MVFC and Big Sky form their own conference and move up together. The Snow Belt idea people have been talking about on Twitter sounds so much more appealing, and wouldn't be a dumpster fire like this one.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I would so much rather the better schools/ones able to actually do it from the MVFC and Big Sky form their own conference and move up together. The Snow Belt idea people have been talking about on Twitter sounds so much more appealing, and wouldn't be a dumpster fire like this one.

My CUSA "Mountain West" Division would've / would be awesome.

But with regards to this development, if the WAC/ASUN is able to pull this off, what's to stop the MVFC from just doing the same thing? Along with the SWAC of course.

[SFA 93]

Good looking football conference.

ASUN-WAC (2024)


ABILENE CHRISTIAN
AUSTIN PEAY
CENTRAL ARKANSAS
EASTERN KENTUCKY
NORTH ALABAMA
SOUTHERN UTAH
STEPHEN F. AUSTIN
TARLETON STATE
UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS - RIO GRANDE VALLEY (2025)
UTAH TECH

[atthewbon]

My CUSA "Mountain West" Division would've / would be awesome.

But with regards to this development, if the WAC/ASUN is able to pull this off, what's to stop the MVFC from just doing the same thing? Along with the SWAC of course.

I don't know the validity of this but I have heard rumors that because the WAC used to be an FBS conference there might be some way to go back easier than other conferences. But I agree with you if this happens it would be hard for the NCAA to not allow other conferences to do the same.

[JacksFan40]

I'll be watching how this plays out very intently. If they can pull this off forming a new football only FBS conference I would love to see a similar coalition of schools from the Big Sky and the MVFC (including my Bison of course) try the same thing.

Sounds like there's some NCAA legal/procedural hurdles to clear but I'd think (hope???) these discussions are already progressed quite a ways if the media is reporting on it.
SDSU, NDSU, Montana, Montana State, Idaho, UNI, Missouri State would be the most logical teams to start. Maybe Weber and Illinois State as well.

[unknown-swac]

I don't know the validity of this but I have heard rumors that because the WAC used to be an FBS conference there might be some way to go back easier than other conferences. But I agree with you if this happens it would be hard for the NCAA to not allow other conferences to do the same.

It's pretty much this. They're able to do it because of a technicality that the WAC was once an FBS league. This isn't a model that will work for other fcs conferences.

[unknown-swac]

FCS is getting gutted

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

This is why I laugh at all the financial arguments against NDSU moving FBS. I understand the geographic conundrum is definitely there but the arguments NDSU doesn't have the money for football-only membership in CUSA is laughable.

[taper]

This is why I laugh at all the financial arguments against NDSU moving FBS. I understand the geographic conundrum is definitely there but the arguments NDSU doesn't have the money for football-only membership in CUSA is laughable.
I don't think anyone's ever said we can't afford FB only CUSA. It'd be a really stupid idea to go there though, our existing media deal is more than twice the CUSA's.

[Sitting Bull]

FCS is getting gutted

LOL. Looking at the teams in this dumpster fire of a league, the joke is on G5, not FCS. It’s like someone is poaching all the bottom feeders.

[clenz]

SDSU, NDSU, Montana, Montana State, Idaho, UNI, Missouri State would be the most logical teams to start. Maybe Weber and Illinois State as well.
Have you seen our AD?

We're more likely to replace Upper Iowa in the NSIC.

[ST_Lawson]

SDSU, NDSU, Montana, Montana State, Idaho, UNI, Missouri State would be the most logical teams to start. Maybe Weber and Illinois State as well.

Or...
The ASUN/WAC gets SIU and MO State to move up with them for football
4 Dakotas, 2 Montanas, Idaho, Weber State, Sac State, and UC Davis go full-on all-sports "Snow Belt Conference"
UNI and ILSU convince the MAC to let them play football there
INSU and Murray State (reversing course) take football to the OVC
WIU goes OVC for all sports
YSU joins nearby Robert Morris in the Big South (unless they can pull a CAA Football-only invite)

MVFC goes bye-bye

[dbackjon]

LOL. Looking at the teams in this dumpster fire of a league, the joke is on G5, not FCS. It’s like someone is poaching all the bottom feeders.

What, one team on that list made the playoffs - because someone had to get the autobid.

[UNAPride]

I'll be watching how this plays out very intently. If they can pull this off forming a new football only FBS conference I would love to see a similar coalition of schools from the Big Sky and the MVFC (including my Bison of course) try the same thing.

Sounds like there's some NCAA legal/procedural hurdles to clear but I'd think (hope???) these discussions are already progressed quite a ways if the media is reporting on it.

It won't be football only. The ASUN schools will be joining the WAC before the jump to FBS.

[JacksFan40]

Or...
The ASUN/WAC gets SIU and MO State to move up with them for football
4 Dakotas, 2 Montanas, Idaho, Weber State, Sac State, and UC Davis go full-on all-sports "Snow Belt Conference"
UNI and ILSU convince the MAC to let them play football there
INSU and Murray State (reversing course) take football to the OVC
WIU goes OVC for all sports
YSU joins nearby Robert Morris in the Big South (unless they can pull a CAA Football-only invite)

MVFC goes bye-bye
Would essentially be a worse version of the MWC, but it works. Only problem is the name, not sure you can have the California schools and call it the Snow Belt.

[POD Knows]

Or...
The ASUN/WAC gets SIU and MO State to move up with them for football
4 Dakotas, 2 Montanas, Idaho, Weber State, Sac State, and UC Davis go full-on all-sports "Snow Belt Conference"
UNI and ILSU convince the MAC to let them play football there
INSU and Murray State (reversing course) take football to the OVC
WIU goes OVC for all sports
YSU joins nearby Robert Morris in the Big South (unless they can pull a CAA Football-only invite)

MVFC goes bye-byeThis would be awesome and it gets the POD seal of approval which carries no weigh whatsoever

[JacksFan40]

In all honesty I don’t see how this works. Only SFA and EKU are remotely FBS caliber, maybe UCA as well. Utah Tech, Southern Utah, and Tarleton? Not a chance. If this goes through though, I’d like to see the MVFC as a whole try it. If some of these schools can go FBS, I think USD, UND, Indiana State, and Murray State will be fine.

[ElCid]

LOL. Looking at the teams in this dumpster fire of a league, the joke is on G5, not FCS. It’s like someone is poaching all the bottom feeders.

It looks like a SlumBelt light (although they are looking better lately) or a Conf Bozos USA. Filled with teams that nobody has ever heard of. But I find it hilarious that some people think they snatched the golden ring. As if this will somehow make them believe they are finally relevant. Half of these schools are probably on economic life support as it is.

Everyone is talking about the big earthquake expected in P5. But I think the real earthquake in college football and sports in general will come in how many schools either slim down, move down, or outright disband their programs in the next 20 years. The economic outlook and demographics are not looking good for many schools. 10 Div I schools gave up football in the 00's. 7 in the 90s. The 10's were not as bad as many more were added, but I think the good times are over and we will see a huge shift in numbers and/or funding (read quality) for teams. When you consider travel for some of these far flung schools, it will be a killer. I think the biggest takeaway will be how many more scalps will be had by FCS teams over these FBS wannabes.

[UNAPride]

https://twitter.com/MattBrownEP/status/1601233030395428865?s=20

Another interesting part of the article "League officials have begun early conversations with at least four other high-profile FCS programs." Coupled with this tweet from Matt Brown and previous rumors from Montana State about the desire to go FBS from earlier this year. Could this mean Montana, Montana st, NDSU, and SDSU? It would be a football only conference so it could make more sense financially.

I have heard of SDSU and NDSU being interested in this (as affiliate members) but not the Montana schools. Who knows, though. I've definitely heard McNeese is one of those interested.

[UNAPride]

In all honesty I don’t see how this works. Only SFA and EKU are remotely FBS caliber, maybe UCA as well. Utah Tech, Southern Utah, and Tarleton? Not a chance. If this goes through though, I’d like to see the MVFC as a whole try it. If some of these schools can go FBS, I think USD, UND, Indiana State, and Murray State will be fine.

I think y'all would all have to join the MVC. All of these ASUN football schools are eventually joining the WAC as full members before the move to FBS.

[F'N Hawks]

Success in football is a small part of the equation. Money, facilities, potential, endowments, and academics. President's love to be associated with like-schools and not glorified junior colleges.

[uofmman1122]

I have heard of SDSU and NDSU being interested in this (as affiliate members) but not the Montana schools. Who knows, though. I've definitely heard McNeese is one of those interested.
NDSU and SDSU getting stuck in that conference without the Montana schools would be a travesty.

[ST_Lawson]

Would essentially be a worse version of the MWC, but it works. Only problem is the name, not sure you can have the California schools and call it the Snow Belt.

They got mountains nearby...they don't have snow there?

[Puddin Tane]

….if everybody moves up….isnt it the same as it is…..

the world needs more low FBS with 6k fans…i guess we’ll be next

[katss07]

Didn’t McNeese just turn down the WAC to stay SLC? Why would McNeese join?

Can an MSU poster chime in? I know we have a few in-the-know here.

[EKU05]

That's a question we all know the answer to. Even if the NCAA doesn't block this they don't control the CFP so CFP access and money would be a different battle.... one that the current G5 conferences would be more than willing to fight I'd bet.

When people ask this question they ask it as though everyone involved in the CFP is equal and it's one contiguous unit. The question isn't about the CFP, it's about the more powerful leagues within the CFP who are driving the bus. And the understanding is that leagues like the SEC and the ACC wouldn't mind this because:

(1) The amount of money the G5 gets in total in pennies compared to what they get. The difference is negligible.
(2) With the new twelve team playoff, schools want to limit their FCS games for selection committee appearances, and having more cheap, weak "FBS" teams to schedule actually suits their agenda pretty well.

Also, for those pointing out that single-sport conferences aren't allowed in FBS, at least one version of this rumor (from credible posters) has this eventually morphing into an all-sports league. That remains to be seen, but it's something to keep an eye on.

[ST_Lawson]

It looks like a SlumBelt light (although they are looking better lately) or a Conf Bozos USA. Filled with teams that nobody has ever heard of. But I find it hilarious that some people think they snatched the golden ring. As if this will somehow make them believe they are finally relevant. Half of these schools are probably on economic life support as it is.

Everyone is talking about the big earthquake expected in P5. But I think the real earthquake in college football and sports in general will come in how many schools either slim down, move down, or outright disband their programs in the next 20 years. The economic outlook and demographics are not looking good for many schools. 10 Div I schools gave up football in the 00's. 7 in the 90s. The 10's were not as bad as many more were added, but I think the good times are over and we will see a huge shift in numbers and/or funding (read quality) for teams. When you consider travel for some of these far flung schools, it will be a killer. I think the biggest takeaway will be how many more scalps will be had by FCS teams over these FBS wannabes.

Probably a bit of both. I can definitely see a scenario a decade down the road where the top 50-60 of the current FBS have broken off and become their own independent "semi-pro" league. The divisions between FCS and FBS disappear as the teams in the top half of the FCS (in terms of money, fan support, enrollment, facilities, etc.) and the rest of the former FBS (mostly the current G5) merge and just become Division I. Meanwhile, many of the teams in the bottom half of the current FCS end up dropping to DII or dropping football altogether (I could see many of the current Pioneer League doing that).

So, kinda like what BEAR said here: https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?320283-Atlantic-Sun-WAC-teams-pairing-up-to-attempt-move-to-FBS-sources-say&p=3101666&viewfull=1#post3101666
But also a lot of teams slimming things down.

It just doesn't feel like what's happening now is sustainable.

[BeamMeUp]

LOL. Looking at the teams in this dumpster fire of a league, the joke is on G5, not FCS. It’s like someone is poaching all the bottom feeders.

You got that right. Why would the FBS want this dumpster fire of a league. They can't compete in the FCS... so yeah... let's go ahead and make the leap to the FBS. Makes perfect sense!

[BeamMeUp]

Or...
The ASUN/WAC gets SIU and MO State to move up with them for football
4 Dakotas, 2 Montanas, Idaho, Weber State, Sac State, and UC Davis go full-on all-sports "Snow Belt Conference"
UNI and ILSU convince the MAC to let them play football there
INSU and Murray State (reversing course) take football to the OVC
WIU goes OVC for all sports
YSU joins nearby Robert Morris in the Big South (unless they can pull a CAA Football-only invite)

MVFC goes bye-bye
Genuinely curious why you would lump YSU into the Big South in this scenario? Just because YSU is an hour from Robert Morris doesn't make it a good fit... I mean you could make an argument for OVC which we used to be in, but the Big South? Facilities wise it would make zero sense.

https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/hiFhOGkjRJgh.jpg?o=1

vs.

https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/TefMUyb2FVE4.jpg?o=1
http://facilities.rmu.edu/_/rsrc/1432168693271/ath-bldg-jws.jpg
http://facilities.rmu.edu/_/rsrc/1432168693271/ath-bldg-jws.jpg

[clenz]

Genuinely curious why you would lump YSU into the Big South in this scenario? Just because YSU is an hour from Robert Morris doesn't make it a good fit... I mean you could make an argument for OVC which we used to be in, but the Big South? Facilities wise it would make zero sense.

https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/hiFhOGkjRJgh.jpg?o=1

vs.

https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/TefMUyb2FVE4.jpg?o=1
http://facilities.rmu.edu/_/rsrc/1432168693271/ath-bldg-jws.jpg
http://facilities.rmu.edu/_/rsrc/1432168693271/ath-bldg-jws.jpg
That's a lot of seats that YSU leaves open every single week. I know what YSU reports and then I have eyes and see what YSU averages. YSU's crowds would fit inside RMU's stadium.

[Cocky]

You got that right. Why would the FBS want this dumpster fire of a league. They can't compete in the FCS... so yeah... let's go ahead and make the leap to the FBS. Makes perfect sense!


The bottom of the FBS is already full of teams that cant compete so why is a few more going to make it worse? The entire G5 cant compete and several B2 and M3 schools cant either. Just about all of the M3 schools cant.

[NY Crusader 2010]

In all honesty I don’t see how this works. Only SFA and EKU are remotely FBS caliber, maybe UCA as well. Utah Tech, Southern Utah, and Tarleton? Not a chance. If this goes through though, I’d like to see the MVFC as a whole try it. If some of these schools can go FBS, I think USD, UND, Indiana State, and Murray State will be fine.

Exactly.

[The Yo Show]

That's a lot of seats that YSU leaves open every single week. I know what YSU reports and then I have eyes and see what YSU averages. YSU's crowds would fit inside RMU's stadium.

So I know that beam included YSU's stadium, but his point was the facilities. The WATTS and our overall athletic facilities are top notch. Ignore fan count for a second, facilities wise YSU has it good. Besides that, I think in this hypothetical MVFC breakup scenario, other conferences (like the CAA) would be a better fit than Big South. My opinion anyway.

[UNHWildcat18]

Honestly the thought of most of those schools being in the FBS is a flat out ****ing joke….

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Honestly the thought of most of those schools being in the FBS is a flat out ****ing joke….

Exactly....these schools who believe they're being pro-active in their move (or attempted move) to FBS are setting themselves up for a world of hurt in a few years. I'm not a fan of the status-quo generally but the PL, IL, academic leaning CAA institutions would be wise to stand pat and focus on what makes them happy/successful until some formal resolution to NIL/pay for play, portal issues, revenue sharing etc comes into focus.....

[ysubigred]

Only one team left at FCS ready for FBS.. NDSU.



Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

[ysubigred]

The bottom of the FBS is already full of teams that cant compete so why is a few more going to make it worse? The entire G5 cant compete and several B2 and M3 schools cant either. Just about all of the M3 schools cant.This^^ If there was any common sense about realignment they'd bring back FBS bottom feeders/conferences to FCS. Move bottom feeder FCS/Conferences back to D II. Or make all FCS FBS. take the 30 or so FBS power houses and make a new classification.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

[JSUSoutherner]

Honestly the thought of most of those schools being in the FBS is a flat out ****ing joke….
I think it's GREAT news.

If the ASun/WAC pull this off, it guarantees that CUSA won't be the worst FBS conference!

[DFW HOYA]

Only one team left at FCS ready for FBS.. NDSU.


Probably two others:

1. Delaware
2. Idaho (if it wanted back in)

[ysubigred]

Probably two others:

1. Delaware
2. Idaho (if it wanted back in)Well when either one get to 5 NCs we'll revisit them..

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

[UNAPride]

Well when either one get to 5 NCs we'll revisit them..

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

I learned a while back that winning percentage and titles had very little to do with reclassifying decisions in the NCAA.

[ysubigred]

I learned a while back that winning percentage and titles had very little to do with reclassifying decisions in the NCAA.Absolutely. Just saying.. don't understand moving up if you can't win at the level you're at.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

[UNHWildcat18]

Absolutely. Just saying.. don't understand moving up if you can't win at the level you're at.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

Not only that the schools are going to be buying a ton of tickets since very few of these schools would be able to get the 15k requirement…

[ysubigred]

Not only that the schools are going to be buying a ton of tickets since very few of these schools would be able to get the 15k requirement…Agreed.. If winning NC's was a prerequisite for moving up then my beloved flightless birds would be gone..

Your point above is why I think 1 FBS needs reset. Hell YSU as dismal as our attendance is we still out draw half the MAC..

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

[UNAPride]

Not only that the schools are going to be buying a ton of tickets since very few of these schools would be able to get the 15k requirement…

The Transformation Committee discussed doing away with the attendance requirement at their meeting last month. No vote yet, but it seems likely. Several current FBS programs don't meet that "requirement" as folks want to watch this stuff from home now. I'll bet they start to factor viewership (TV/Streaming) into the equation.

[UNHWildcat18]

Exactly....these schools who believe they're being pro-active in their move (or attempted move) to FBS are setting themselves up for a world of hurt in a few years. I'm not a fan of the status-quo generally but the PL, IL, academic leaning CAA institutions would be wise to stand pat and focus on what makes them happy/successful until some formal resolution to NIL/pay for play, portal issues, revenue sharing etc comes into focus.....

has nothing to do with stadium size, success, history….. Just boop FBS for all you

[F'N Hawks]

Absolutely. Just saying.. don't understand moving up if you can't win at the level you're at.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

The Jacks would like a word...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

has nothing to do with stadium size, success, history….. Just boop FBS for all you

Huh? Did you pick the right quote to respond to?

[UNHWildcat18]

Huh? Did you pick the right quote to respond to?
oh shoot, I had a sentence before that saying it was sad that it “insert the rest of my previous message” didn’t notice it got deleted.

[ysubigred]

The Jacks would like a word...Ummm.. no NC's.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

[F'N Hawks]

Ummm.. no NC's.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

I am saying from D2 to FCS.

[Professor Chaos]

Honestly the thought of most of those schools being in the FBS is a flat out ****ing joke….
No offense to our SHSU friends but if they're FBS caliber the bar has been set pretty low... to the point where a whole ****load of teams should be.saying "If it's them why not us???"

[BisonBacker]

FCS is getting gutted It has been for years and why I've been a proponent to NDSU making the move.

[BisonBacker]

Honestly the thought of most of those schools being in the FBS is a flat out ****ing joke…. Agreed 100%

[BisonBacker]

No offense to our SHSU friends but if they're FBS caliber the bar has been set pretty low... to the point where a whole ****load of teams should be.saying "If it's them why not us???" No ****. I was shocked when I saw that. But all the schools that made the jump had one thing going for them. Geography. NDSU being located where it is isolates them conference wise.

[Panther88]

Success in football is a small part of the equation. Money, facilities, potential, endowments, and academics. President's love to be associated with like-schools and not glorified junior colleges.

Ouch!

[ysubigred]

I am saying from D2 to FCS.Oh yes Bunnies have tons on W's.. My point to leave FCS to BCS I think you should have a couple or these..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221210/c025287d019111e61c70dcbcf98ebbc3.jpg

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

[jacksfan29!]

I've heard from a pretty good source that this is happening. Also from an FBS coach that the two BIG FBS conferences will break away from the NCAA in 5 years and form football only conferences that will be corporate sponsored and the athletes will not be attending college. Kind of a semi-pro league. Gentlemen if this is all true then football as we know it is about to be OVER.

I believe this is exactly what will come of this situation, except I think it will be 4 who break away, 80 schools total. No way the stronger P5 put up with a league like WAC/ASUN moving up.

[jacksfan29!]

Looks like a strong D2 league.


Good looking football conference.

ASUN-WAC (2024)


ABILENE CHRISTIAN
AUSTIN PEAY
CENTRAL ARKANSAS
EASTERN KENTUCKY
NORTH ALABAMA
SOUTHERN UTAH
STEPHEN F. AUSTIN
TARLETON STATE
UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS - RIO GRANDE VALLEY (2025)
UTAH TECH

[SCPALADIN]

This^^ If there was any common sense about realignment they'd bring back FBS bottom feeders/conferences to FCS. Move bottom feeder FCS/Conferences back to D II. Or make all FCS FBS. take the 30 or so FBS power houses and make a new classification.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

I'm sure most are already aware, but...this would require the NCAA to amend the rule forbidding schools participating in D1 basketball and D2 football simultaneously. The Davidsons, Georgetowns, and Daytons out there would need to petition the NCAA for a rule change, or they'd need to consider dropping football altogether....assuming the Pioneer is disbanded.

[CockyGeek]

I figure that's what we're moving towards. The P5 might be scheduling games with the AAC for homecoming and nobody else within a few years.

[NY Crusader 2010]

….if everybody moves up….isnt it the same as it is…..

the world needs more low FBS with 6k fans…i guess we’ll be next

Why not? I think the only qualification needed to move up these days is that your team doesn't make it past the Round of 24 of the FCS playoffs.

[DFW HOYA]

I'm sure most are already aware, but...this would require the NCAA to amend the rule forbidding schools participating in D1 basketball and D2 football simultaneously. The Davidsons, Georgetowns, and Daytons out there would need to petition the NCAA for a rule change, or they'd need to consider dropping football altogether....assuming the Pioneer is disbanded.

Georgetown doesn't play in the Pioneer. No interest.

[Catbooster]

FCS is getting gutted
By the loss of these teams? No offense intended but I don't think these teams going to FBS is going to kill FCS. It's always a loss to have teams leave the subdivision, but gutted is hyperbole. We've been losing teams to the FBS for as long as I've been a fan (as well as gaining them from D-II, etc.). But in the past it has been some of the better teams. Now it seems it doesn't matter how good or bad, teams want to chase the money.

[Libertine]

Oh yes Bunnies have tons on W's.. My point to leave FCS to BCS I think you should have a couple or these..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221210/c025287d019111e61c70dcbcf98ebbc3.jpg

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

The fact that this poster used the term "BCS" should indicate how out-of-date this thinking is.

[unknown-swac]

If you still think this has anything to do with "quality teams" at the FCS level then you still just don't get it. FCS, in general, IS getting gutted because half the teams there are trying to leave. When the same teams that used to be your peers start calling you guys up for homecoming games it'll start making sense I suppose.

[DFW HOYA]

This wouldn't be a problem, of course, if Division I wasn't subdivided in football.

[NY Crusader 2010]

If you still think this has anything to do with "quality teams" at the FCS level then you still just don't get it. FCS, in general, IS getting gutted because half the teams there are trying to leave. When the same teams that used to be your peers start calling you guys up for homecoming games it'll start making sense I suppose.

If the WAC-ASUN group is somehow able to pull off an FBS move, you might as well just get rid of the subdivisions and go back to just having "Division I football". Would be a good sign for the SWAC though, one would think if that group of schools is able to make it happen, the SWAC will be able to make the same jump. At least you guys actually meet the ferkakta attendance requirements.

[UNAPride]

This wouldn't be a problem, of course, if Division I wasn't subdivided in football.


If the WAC-ASUN group is somehow able to pull off an FBS move, you might as well just get rid of the subdivisions and go back to just having "Division I football". Would be a good sign for the SWAC though, one would think if that group of schools is able to make it happen, the SWAC will be able to make the same jump. At least you guys actually meet the ferkakta attendance requirements.

I think that's the direction this is all moving.

[Tuna85]

Not sure if this has been thrown out there but, I am beginning to wonder about how strong the attraction remains for all sports conferences which include football. I imagine a USC and UCLA would be happy to have Football with the Big and their remaining sports staying in the Pac. Sure would help from dollars and cents standpoint. If there were some flexibilty, in this regard, NDSU would probably manage to find an FBS home for football rather quickly. Setting aside for a moment that I am a North Alabama alum; just noodling over some inefficiencies of the current structure.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Not sure if this has been thrown out there but, I am beginning to wonder about how strong the attraction remains for all sports conferences which include football. I imagine a USC and UCLA would be happy to have Football with the Big and their remaining sports staying in the Pac. Sure would help from dollars and cents standpoint. If there were some flexibilty, in this regard, NDSU would probably manage to find an FBS home for football rather quickly. Setting aside for a moment that I am a North Alabama alum; just noodling over some inefficiencies of the current structure.

Ultimately, yes this should be the direction everything heads. But it won't happen overnight. I think football will be the one sport that "de-couples" for the most part from the current conference structure, assuming the NCAA caves and loosens the rules. The USC-UCLA example is perfect. This would also allow for the quick creation of a "Snow Belt" conference including the Montana and Dakota schools, Northern Iowa, Idaho etc. in addition to the eastern seaboard FBS conference that some of the CAA guys talk about.

And in reality, most varsity sports could become how club sports are divided up where you play in regionally-based leagues sorted out by talent level.

My school, Holy Cross is a decent example. While most wouldn't view us a sports power by any means, there is a major funding gap when it comes to varsity sports after you get past Football, M/W Basketball, Baseball, M/W Ice Hockey, M/W Soccer and M/W Lacrosse. And then Women's T/F and Field Hockey receive some funding to help balance out football scholarships on women's side. Our tennis, golf and swim teams are largely non-competitive in the Patriot League, as well as Men's T/F. We should be competing against the likes WPI and Worcester State in these sports, not Bucknell, BU, Army and Navy.

[Sitting Bull]

From the AD at Montana. A sane voice in the woods.

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky-conference/university-of-montana/montana-grizzlies-are-staying-in-the-big-sky-for-now-and-ad-kent-haslam-explains/article_539a1396-77f2-11ed-b132-9b9ce3fd41bc.html

Got to believe that ADs at Delaware, ND State, W&M, etc hold similar positions.

A key quote:
“This subdivision is a great subdivision. It’s an answer for many schools … it’s a place for healthy Division I football that is appealing and can be done in a more cost-efficient way.”

[nodak651]

WAC/ASUN new conf name: FITYMI


Fake it till you make it.

[Sir William]

If the ASUN and WAC want and are able to move up to FBS, then go ahead. Contrary to a few posts here and there, FCS is doing fine (even though a few tweaks and changes may come as the FBS landscape shifts here and there); and FCS will continue to do fine, IMO. Nonetheless, let's be honest about a few things...

One, FCS football is in no way changed for the worse if the ASUN/WAC goes FBS. The ASUN/WAC has had little if any influence on the FCS, and its leaving will make virtually no felt impact.

Two, with the exception of EKU, none of the current ASUN/WAC football programs have ever had any lasting influence or impact on FCS football. For sure, some have had 1 or 2 bright years before fading. EKU was a perennial powerhouse back in the early days of IAA, but that's it.

Three, the whole idea that the current ASUN/WAC would move to FBS is on its face laughable, but go ahead. Will they actually be able to compete with the other leagues, even CUSA, with any consistency? DOUBTFUL. Yeah, they may pull out a win or two against those teams, but get ready to be the laughingstock and doormat of D1 college football.

If I'm EKU, and I really want to go FBS, I'm courting CUSA or the Sun Belt, and shedding my affiliation with these other FBS wannabees.

[nodak651]

First FBS conference with a FLO Sports "TV" contract? "book it"

[UNAPride]

From the AD at Montana. A sane voice in the woods.

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky-conference/university-of-montana/montana-grizzlies-are-staying-in-the-big-sky-for-now-and-ad-kent-haslam-explains/article_539a1396-77f2-11ed-b132-9b9ce3fd41bc.html

Got to believe that ADs at Delaware, ND State, W&M, etc hold similar positions.

A key quote:
“This subdivision is a great subdivision. It’s an answer for many schools … it’s a place for healthy Division I football that is appealing and can be done in a more cost-efficient way.”





It's geography. FCS is fine for teams not in the south.

Here in the south, you're either FBS or you're not playing "real" college football in the eyes of most fans.

That perception is a big problem for these schools. So, they are making bold moves to reclassify their schools up to "big boy" football as it's said down here.

[SFA 93]

Two, with the exception of EKU, none of the current ASUN/WAC football programs have ever had any lasting influence or impact on FCS football. For sure, some have had 1 or 2 bright years before fading. EKU was a perennial powerhouse back in the early days of IAA, but that's it.

If I'm EKU, and I really want to go FBS, I'm courting CUSA or the Sun Belt, and shedding my affiliation with these other FBS wannabees.

Cool, SFA has beaten this perennial powerhouse two straight times in a home (2020) 24-6 and home (2021) 31-17 maybe we are making progress to get promoted from the ranks of the wannabees.

[Sitting Bull]

It's geography. FCS is fine for teams not in the south.

Here in the south, you're either FBS or you're not playing "real" college football in the eyes of most fans.

That perception is a big problem for these schools. So, they are making bold moves to reclassify their schools up to "big boy" football as it's said down here.

I’m not sold on that. Do people in Alabama really think Alabama and Auburn are on the same level as Jacksonville State and Troy? Does the average fan in Alabama see South Alabama as big boy football? Do Georgia fans see Georgia State as big boy football?

I think most people see FBS as P5 and all these other attempts to join that club are just fruitless. Unless the Camelia Bowl in Montgomery is your ultimate goal.

[UNAPride]

I’m not sold on that. Do people in Alabama really think Alabama and Auburn are on the same level as Jacksonville State and Troy? Does the average fan in Alabama see South Alabama as big boy football? Do Georgia fans see Georgia State as big boy football?

I think most people see FBS as P5 and all these other attempts to join that club are just fruitless. Unless the Camelia Bowl in Montgomery is your ultimate goal.

I don't disagree with you here. But, college football has jumped the shark.

[Daytripper]

I’m not sold on that. Do people in Alabama really think Alabama and Auburn are on the same level as Jacksonville State and Troy? Does the average fan in Alabama see South Alabama as big boy football? Do Georgia fans see Georgia State as big boy football?

I think most people see FBS as P5 and all these other attempts to join that club are just fruitless. Unless the Camelia Bowl in Montgomery is your ultimate goal.

UNAPride is right. And yes, southern states with a large P5 presence view G5 very differently than FCS. Part of it is the fact that a win against a G5 counts more in the minds of fans and poll voters. The stigma of "I-AA" will never leave. Sam Houston will never compete for an FBS CFP national championship in my lifetime, but they will get much more coverage in the Houston media market in the near future than HCU, PVAMU or any other regional FCS school. It may be only perception, but....oftentimes perception is reality.

[BEAR]

Here's the deal in Arkansas since we are considered to be in the South.

If Ouachita Baptist wins the national championship in division II football, it might make a quick reference on the local news and stuck on the back page of the sports section of the statewide paper.

If UCA wins the FCS national championship it might get a 30 second spot on the local news and a spot in the corner of the back page of the statewide newspaper that will wrongly call it the division II championship.

If Arkansas State gets into a bowl game you get a 30 minute special on the local channels, headlines in the local statewide newspaper...and that's for a low level bowl.

If Arkansas gets into a bowl game it's neverending wall to wall coverage on all media accounts...even for a low level bowl. I mean they play Kansas in Memphis soon....and it's continual talk.

Football level is king in this state. Nattys don't mean anything unless you are at least at the bowl level..and even low level bowl games are a big deal.

[Sir William]

...maybe we are making progress to get promoted from the ranks of the [FBS] wannabees.

No.

[FUBeAR]

Here's the deal in Arkansas since we are considered to be in the South.

If Ouachita Baptist wins the national championship in division II football, it might make a quick reference on the local news and stuck on the back page of the sports section of the statewide paper.

If UCA wins the FCS national championship it might get a 30 second spot on the local news and a spot in the corner of the back page of the statewide newspaper that will wrongly call it the division II championship.

If Arkansas State gets into a bowl game you get a 30 minute special on the local channels, headlines in the local statewide newspaper...and that's for a low level bowl.

If Arkansas gets into a bowl game it's neverending wall to wall coverage on all media accounts...even for a low level bowl. I mean they play Kansas in Memphis soon....and it's continual talk.

Football level is king in this state. Nattys don't mean anything unless you are at least at the bowl level..and even low level bowl games are a big deal.
Arkansas must be very different from Georgia. Here’s a live look at the typical coverage Georgia Southern & Georgia State Football get here, regardless of how they do…

https://media.tenor.com/cZnmcEc3IowAAAAM/tumbleweed-desert.gif

…wouldn’t even know either of them have a Football Team.

[POD Knows]

First FBS conference with a FLO Sports "TV" contract? "book it"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to nodak651 again.

[Tuna85]

Ultimately, yes this should be the direction everything heads. But it won't happen overnight. I think football will be the one sport that "de-couples" for the most part from the current conference structure, assuming the NCAA caves and loosens the rules. The USC-UCLA example is perfect. This would also allow for the quick creation of a "Snow Belt" conference including the Montana and Dakota schools, Northern Iowa, Idaho etc. in addition to the eastern seaboard FBS conference that some of the CAA guys talk about.

And in reality, most varsity sports could become how club sports are divided up where you play in regionally-based leagues sorted out by talent level.

My school, Holy Cross is a decent example. While most wouldn't view us a sports power by any means, there is a major funding gap when it comes to varsity sports after you get past Football, M/W Basketball, Baseball, M/W Ice Hockey, M/W Soccer and M/W Lacrosse. And then Women's T/F and Field Hockey receive some funding to help balance out football scholarships on women's side. Our tennis, golf and swim teams are largely non-competitive in the Patriot League, as well as Men's T/F. We should be competing against the likes WPI and Worcester State in these sports, not Bucknell, BU, Army and Navy.

I'd like to see that Snow Belt Conference. Those schools play some solid football. It would be a good move for them and a healthy move for college football overall.
As for Holy Cross, congratulations on a great season. That was a strong team you put on the field!

[NY Crusader 2010]

UNAPride is right. And yes, southern states with a large P5 presence view G5 very differently than FCS. Part of it is the fact that a win against a G5 counts more in the minds of fans and poll voters. The stigma of "I-AA" will never leave. Sam Houston will never compete for an FBS CFP national championship in my lifetime, but they will get much more coverage in the Houston media market in the near future than HCU, PVAMU or any other regional FCS school. It may be only perception, but....oftentimes perception is reality.

Meanwhile, in Massachusetts the opposite is true, winning is the only thing that gets you coverage unless you're BC or the Patriots. UMass completely fell off the map after moving into FBS. Attendance and overage of their games with UNH at Gillette Stadium while both were still in the CAA dwarfed what their games at Gillette against MAC teams received.

Holy Cross-Fordham in Worcester drew double what UMass-Army at McGuirk did. And it wasn't Holy Cross Homecoming or Family Weekend for the Fordham game either. A couple years ago, Holy Cross-Georgetown outdrew UMass-BYU in Amherst the same day. The HC-Fordham 53-52 OT thriller also got coverage and detailed recaps that we haven't gotten in a long time from major outlets...maybe with the exception of the Boston Globe after the renewal of the BC series in 2018, which was basically a "this is why this game shouldn't be played anymore" kind of article.

[JacksFan40]

Meanwhile, in Massachusetts the opposite is true, winning is the only thing that gets you coverage unless you're BC or the Patriots. UMass completely fell off the map after moving into FBS. Attendance and overage of their games with UNH at Gillette Stadium while both were still in the CAA dwarfed what their games at Gillette against MAC teams received.

Holy Cross-Fordham in Worcester drew double what UMass-Army at McGuirk did. And it wasn't Holy Cross Homecoming or Family Weekend for the Fordham game either. A couple years ago, Holy Cross-Georgetown outdrew UMass-BYU in Amherst the same day. The HC-Fordham 53-52 OT thriller also got coverage and detailed recaps that we haven't gotten in a long time from major outlets...maybe with the exception of the Boston Globe after the renewal of the BC series in 2018, which was basically a "this is why this game shouldn't be played anymore" kind of article.
It helps that there’s nothing for FBS football in the northeast outside of Boston College. I don’t like it when people say certain FBS teams should drop to the FCS, but UMass most definitely should. They’ve completely destroyed a once solid program, and for what? A little more money? Pathetic.

[UNHWildcat18]

First FBS conference with a FLO Sports "TV" contract? "book it"

😂 I developed a cough after laughing at that comment.

[Keeper]

They'll probably end up calling it the "Western Sun Conference". xsmiley_wix

[NY Crusader 2010]

It helps that there’s nothing for FBS football in the northeast outside of Boston College. I don’t like it when people say certain FBS teams should drop to the FCS, but UMass most definitely should. They’ve completely destroyed a once solid program, and for what? A little more money? Pathetic.

UMass is probably the only FBS program I would say should drop back down right now. I would've said New Mexico State should drop down a year or two ago but now that they've found a league, best of luck to them. At least the jury is still out on the new group headed to Conference USA -- and those were winning programs down here. Honestly, the only thing that would hold me back if I'm UMass is the possibility that some form of low-level eastern-seaboard based football-only FBS conference could be created. If the WAC-ASUN can get the OK to move up all of a sudden, then I don't see why that would be impossible.

The only reason UMass moved up in the first place was because TPTB there failed to read the tea leaves properly regarding the Big East split. They had big-time support from Bob Kraft at the time, hence all the games in Foxboro.

[ElCid]

It helps that there’s nothing for FBS football in the northeast outside of Boston College. I don’t like it when people say certain FBS teams should drop to the FCS, but UMass most definitely should. They’ve completely destroyed a once solid program, and for what? A little more money? Pathetic.

Why do you hate it. It is what it is. There are probably at least 20 teams that had no business being FBS to begin with. And that is being generous. They either had minimal fan support, minimal facilities, minimal money. But the number of teams that probably shouldn't be FBS will apparently grow.

[SFA 93]

North Alabama: Morgan Cruce has been named running backs coach. Cruce spent last season as the head coach at Brighton HS (TN).

[SFA 93]

UTRGV - has hired Head Coach Travis Bush from Canyon High School in New Braunfels, Texas to be the first Head Coach of the Vaqueros.

[NY Crusader 2010]

UTRGV - has hired Head Coach Travis Bush from Canyon High School in New Braunfels, Texas to be the first Head Coach of the Vaqueros.

High school to FBS! Talk about breaking barriers.

[SFA 93]

https://goutrgv.com/news/2022/12/12/travis-bush-named-first-head-football-coach.aspx

RIO GRANDE VALLEY – The University of Texas Rio Grande Valley (UTRGV) Vice President and Director of Athletics Chasse Conque announced on Monday the hiring of Travis Bush, who has 14 years of NCAA Division I college and eight years of high school coaching experience in Texas, plus one season of NFL coaching experience, in addition to significant ties to the Rio Grande Valley, as the first head football coach in program history.

[Libertine]

High school to FBS! Talk about breaking barriers.

He's been around FBS for a while, just not in the last five years. He was OC at Houston at one point.

[KPSUL]

High school to FBS! Talk about breaking barriers.

That barrier was broken a long time ago, Notre Dame hired Jerry Faust out of HS 40 years. Of course that didn't work out to well.

[DFW HOYA]

That barrier was broken a long time ago, Notre Dame hired Jerry Faust out of HS 40 years. Of course that didn't work out to well.

Neither did Todd Dodge:
98-11 at Southlake Carroll HS
6-37 at North Texas

[JacksFan40]

That barrier was broken a long time ago, Notre Dame hired Jerry Faust out of HS 40 years. Of course that didn't work out to well.
Jeff Traylor at UTSA spent around 15 years as a HS HC, and he’s turned UTSA into one of the top G5 programs in just three years. Though he did spend a few years as an assistant in college in between HS and UTSA.

[UNAPride]

Shared on the UNA forums.

A lot of truths pro and con spoken here.

Great listen.



https://youtu.be/tKrDSMzXEcE?t=467

[Cocky]

Jeff Traylor at UTSA spent around 15 years as a HS HC, and he’s turned UTSA into one of the top G5 programs in just three years. Though he did spend a few years as an assistant in college in between HS and UTSA.

It is the direct from HS to FBS without any college or pro experience which is very limited. Lots of coaches have high school experience on their resume.

[Gil Dobie]

Thinking St Thomas has FBS aspirations.

[UNAPride]

From FBSSchedules.com on Twitter:

ASUN-WAC partnership will function in the manner of a single sport conference beginning January 1, 2023. Participating teams include:

Abilene Christian
Austin Peay
Central Arkansas
EKU
North Alabama
Southern Utah
Stephen F. Austin
Tarleton State
Utah Tech

https://twitter.com/FBSchedules/status/1605294463517044736?s=20&t=3Cbvgsro0xMd8X65S--0Ew