Playoff question

[joecooll6]

What is the most bids a conference has ever recieved?

[leatherneck177]

If I am not mistaken, it was the Gateway in 2003 with 4:

Western Illinois
Western Kentucky
Southern Illinois
Northern Iowa

[89Hen]

If I am not mistaken, it was the Gateway in 2003 with 4:

Western Illinois
Western Kentucky
Southern Illinois
Northern Iowa
Correct, and the CAA also had 4 in 2004:

James Madison
William & Mary
Delaware
New Hampshire

[FanOfAllThatIsJMU]

and in both those years a CAA team won the championship xthumbsupx

so, if the CAA gets four teams in again this year, one of those teams will win the championship xsmiley_wix xthumbsupx

[stevdock]

and in both those years a CAA team won the championship xthumbsupx

so, if the CAA gets four teams in again this year, one of those teams will win the championship xsmiley_wix xthumbsupx

So then since there are 5 teams ranked so high, how likely is it for them to get all 5 in?

[UNHWildCats]

The Atlantic 10, now CAA had 4 selections in 2004 and 2006.

[bluehenbillk]

The fact that only twice have 4 teams from a league made it doesn't bode well for the CAA's hopes for 5.

[GannonFan]

So then since there are 5 teams ranked so high, how likely is it for them to get all 5 in?

Almost next to impossible. I see only 4 getting in, IMO.

[FanOfAllThatIsJMU]

So then since there are 5 teams ranked so high, how likely is it for them to get all 5 in?

3% chance, just above 0 but not quite 0.

[UNHWildCats]

The fact that only twice have 4 teams from a league made it doesn't bode well for the CAA's hopes for 5.
3 times :p

[89Hen]

and in both those years...
What actually is rather amazing is that in those two years, those 8 teams went 7-1 in the first round. The only loss was SIU to eventual NC UD.

2003
Western Illinois 43 - Montana 40
Western Kentucky 45 - Jacksonville State 7
Delaware 48 - Southern Illinois 7
UNI 35 - Montana State 14

2004
New Hampshire 27 - Georgia Southern 23
William & Mary 42 - Hampton 35
Delaware 28 - Lafayette 14
James Madison 14 - Lehigh 13

Can't really say four was too many from one conference. xthumbsupx

[FanOfAllThatIsJMU]

3 times :p

then that hurts my point of CAA team winning it each time, so I will only recognize two of them, 2003 and 2004 xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

The Atlantic 10, now CAA had 4 selections in 2004 and 2006.

then that hurts my point of CAA team winning it each time, so I will only recognize two of them, 2003 and 2004 xsmiley_wix
Only three last year: UMass, JMU and UNH

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

What I don't get is the anti 5 bids. The CAA has 12 teams. Gateway nor the SoCon have that many, so as a percentage, it would be no worse than the Gateway or SoCon getting 4 bids.

I hope the Committee truly looks into this year's teams and chooses the BEST qualified, not geographically qualified, teams to represent the at-large field. It will be very interesting. I have a feeling a CAA team or two will be pissed. JMU and Hofstra seem like most likely candidates to be burned, UNH or Richmond could as well.

[GannonFan]

3 times :p


then that hurts my point of CAA team winning it each time, so I will only recognize two of them, 2003 and 2004 xsmiley_wix

Dude, he was already counting this year as the 3rd time. xthumbsupx

[FanOfAllThatIsJMU]

Only three last year.

ahah! so my point stands xthumbsupx

[AZGrizFan]

What I don't get is the anti 5 bids. The CAA has 12 teams. Gateway nor the SoCon have that many, so as a percentage, it would be no worse than the Gateway or SoCon getting 4 bids.

I hope the Committee truly looks into this year's teams and chooses the BEST qualified, not geographically qualified, teams to represent the at-large field. It will be very interesting. I have a feeling a CAA team or two will be pissed. JMU and Hofstra seem like most likely candidates to be burned, UNH or Richmond could as well.

IF Hofstra is left out, they have no one to blame but themselves.

[UNHWildCats]

then that hurts my point of CAA team winning it each time, so I will only recognize two of them, 2003 and 2004 xsmiley_wix
Well UMass did make the championship game :p

[GannonFan]

What I don't get is the anti 5 bids. The CAA has 12 teams. Gateway nor the SoCon have that many, so as a percentage, it would be no worse than the Gateway or SoCon getting 4 bids.

I hope the Committee truly looks into this year's teams and chooses the BEST qualified, not geographically qualified, teams to represent the at-large field. It will be very interesting. I have a feeling a CAA team or two will be pissed. JMU and Hofstra seem like most likely candidates to be burned, UNH or Richmond could as well.

Don't worry too much about it - let them expand the playoffs to 24 teams and then we'll get 5-7 teams in every year.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/29/100276794_548c83c4eb.jpg

That's it, mid-majors, clammor away for an expanded playoffs. You're playing right into our hands, BWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH - Excellent

[AZGrizFan]

What actually is rather amazing is that in those two years, those 8 teams went 7-1 in the first round. The only loss was SIU to eventual NC UD.

2003
Western Illinois 43 - Montana 40
Western Kentucky 45 - Jacksonville State 7
Delaware 48 - Southern Illinois 7
UNI 35 - Montana State 14

2004
New Hampshire 27 - Georgia Southern 23
William & Mary 42 - Hampton 35
Delaware 28 - Lafayette 14
James Madison 14 - Lehigh 13

Can't really say four was too many from one conference. xthumbsupx

You can when their opponents are Hampton, Laugh-ayette and Lehigh.;)

[UNHWildCats]

Only three last year: UMass, JMU and UNH
My bad, the writing is small http://collegesportingnews.com/article.asp?articleid=82311 not sure how I counted 4 the first time.

[GannonFan]

You can when their opponents are Hampton, Laugh-ayette and Lehigh.;)

Hmmm, sounds like Montana has come up with a new, future schedule, huh??? :p :p :p :p

[89Hen]

You can when their opponents are Hampton, Laugh-ayette and Lehigh.;)
Or Montana. ;)

[AZGrizFan]

Hmmm, sounds like Montana has come up with a new, future schedule, huh??? :p :p :p :p

All I can say is, when THAT'S the crap that's makin' the playoffs from the East Coast, people have no right to bitch about Montana's schedule. :)

[stevdock]

All I can say is, when THAT'S the crap that's makin' the playoffs from the East Coast, people have no right to bitch about Montana's schedule. :)

There is nothing worse in this country than the East Coast bias when you don't live there. You name the sport it is always there and it sucks.

[89Hen]

All I can say is, when THAT'S the crap that's makin' the playoffs from the East Coast, people have no right to bitch about Montana's schedule. :)
Do you REALLY want to go there? xeyebrowx

[GannonFan]

Western paranoia. xrolleyesx

Why's Montana crying about first round opponents? They've gotten a few bad Southland teams and OVC teams in the past. And frankly, I wasn't all that impressed with Big Sky representative Portland St when they came all the way East back in 2000, before they started regionalizing things.

[AZGrizFan]

Western paranoia. xrolleyesx

Why's Montana crying about first round opponents? They've gotten a few bad Southland teams and OVC teams in the past. And frankly, I wasn't all that impressed with Big Sky representative Portland St when they came all the way East back in 2000, before they started regionalizing things.

We're not crying....reread my post. Hen is bragging about how 4 teams from CAA was a good choice because they went 4-0 in 2004. But look at their collective opponents....not exactly trial by fire. This has nothing to do with Montana's opponents. And everything to do with the CAA getting 7-8 teams in the playoffs this year.... xlolx ;)

[89Hen]

We're not crying....reread my post. Hen is bragging about how 4 teams from CAA was a good choice because they went 4-0 in 2004. But look at their collective opponents....not exactly trial by fire.
It is funny that when Big Sky teams lose it's beacause "their opponents are so strong... they get screwed with who they have to play". But when CAA teams win it's because "their opponents are so weak.. the get lucky with who they have to play". xlolx

Furthermore, when NAU beats McNeese in Lake Charles it's the greatest victory in the history of I-AA, but when Maine does it... well, they lost next round (nevermind that NAU did too).

BTW, Montana's first round opponents...

2006 - McNeese (7-4)
2005 - Cal Poly (8-3)
2004 - Northwestern State (9-3)
2003 - Western Illinois (9-3)
2002 - Northwestern State (8-3)
2001 - Northwestern State (8-3)
2000 - Eastern Illinois (8-3)

Wake me up next time you face a team with less than three losses. xcoffeex

[Khan4Cats]

The committee is really hoping that Western Illinois, Cal Poly and/or Eastern Washington all run the table to bring more Western teams into the conversation. Otherwise they may just give the OVC a second bid, or even the MEAC or Patriot. Can't see them going 5 from one conference and no more than 3 from any other, if the SoCon continues to cannibalize.

[GolfingGriz]

It is funny that when Big Sky teams lose it's beacause "their opponents are so strong... they get screwed with who they have to play". But when CAA teams win it's because "their opponents are so weak.. the get lucky with who they have to play". xlolx

Furthermore, when NAU beats McNeese in Lake Charles it's the greatest victory in the history of I-AA, but when Maine does it... well, they lost next round (nevermind that NAU did too).

BTW, Montana's first round opponents...

2006 - McNeese (7-4)
2005 - Cal Poly (8-3)
2004 - Northwestern State (9-3)
2003 - Western Illinois (9-3)
2002 - Northwestern State (8-3)
2001 - Northwestern State (8-3)
2000 - Eastern Illinois (8-3)

Wake me up next time you face a team with less than three losses. xcoffeex

Well, when you win 67 regular season games(9.6 average) in those 7 years you tend to play one of the last teams into the tourney. Sorry we are traditionally good and get awarded with 8-3 teams in the play-offs.

[AZGrizFan]

It is funny that when Big Sky teams lose it's beacause "their opponents are so strong... they get screwed with who they have to play". But when CAA teams win it's because "their opponents are so weak.. the get lucky with who they have to play". xlolx

Furthermore, when NAU beats McNeese in Lake Charles it's the greatest victory in the history of I-AA, but when Maine does it... well, they lost next round (nevermind that NAU did too).

BTW, Montana's first round opponents...

2006 - McNeese (7-4)
2005 - Cal Poly (8-3)
2004 - Northwestern State (9-3)
2003 - Western Illinois (9-3)
2002 - Northwestern State (8-3)
2001 - Northwestern State (8-3)
2000 - Eastern Illinois (8-3)

Wake me up next time you face a team with less than three losses. xcoffeex

And any ONE of those opponents would mop the floor with Hampton, Laugh-ayette and LeHigh. xnodx xnodx xnodx

[89Hen]

Well, when you win 67 regular season games(9.6 average) in those 7 years you tend to play one of the last teams into the tourney. Sorry we are traditionally good and get awarded with 8-3 teams in the play-offs.
xnonox The field is not seeded that way. xnonox

[89Hen]

And any ONE of those opponents would mop the floor with Hampton, Laugh-ayette and LeHigh. xnodx xnodx xnodx
Reallllly? xeyebrowx

Last time the met in the playoffs (before regionalization)....

Lehigh 37 - Western Illinois 7

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark. :p


BTW, the following week... Delaware 47 - Lehigh 22 xeekx

[GolfingGriz]

xnonox The field is not seeded that way. xnonox


When your a top 4 seed it isxthumbsupx

[89Hen]

When your a top 4 seed it isxthumbsupx
xnonox ah, ah, ah, not how it works xnonox

Last time the Hens got a seed (#2) we got burdened with a 10-1 #4 ranked, #1 GPI Southern Illinois... not to worry though, instead of complaining the Hens just took care of business.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Reallllly? xeyebrowx

Last time the met in the playoffs (before regionalization)....

Lehigh 37 - Western Illinois 7

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark. :p


BTW, the following week... Delaware 47 - Lehigh 22 xeekx

There you go again ruining our western friends fun by bringing facts into it.

[GolfingGriz]

xnonox ah, ah, ah, not how it works xnonox

Last time the Hens got a seed (#2) we got burdened with a 10-1 #4 ranked, #1 GPI Southern Illinois... not to worry though, instead of complaining the Hens just took care of business.

Who's complaining?

[GolfingGriz]

Reallllly? xeyebrowx

Last time the met in the playoffs (before regionalization)....

Lehigh 37 - Western Illinois 7

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark. :p


BTW, the following week... Delaware 47 - Lehigh 22 xeekx

Which year was this?

[89Hen]

Who's complaining?

All I can say is, when THAT'S the crap that's makin' the playoffs from the East Coast, people have no right to bitch about Montana's schedule. :)
xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

Which year was this?
The last time "Hampton, Laugh-ayette and LeHigh" met one of those tough Griz opponents from middle America, and also the last year we didn't have regionalization, so teams could face anyone first round.

[ChickenMan]

Reallllly? xeyebrowx

Last time the met in the playoffs (before regionalization)....

Lehigh 37 - Western Illinois 7

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark. :p


BTW, the following week... Delaware 47 - Lehigh 22 xeekx


There you go again.. confusing the issue with FACTS... :p

[UMass922]

The committee is really hoping that Western Illinois, Cal Poly and/or Eastern Washington all run the table to bring more Western teams into the conversation. Otherwise they may just give the OVC a second bid, or even the MEAC or Patriot. Can't see them going 5 from one conference and no more than 3 from any other, if the SoCon continues to cannibalize.

This is what bugs me. Most people seem convinced that the NCAA has an unwritten rule capping the number of teams selected from a given conference. Maybe this is true; I honestly don't know myself. And I would have no problem with a cap on the number of teams per conference. But if it's true, why can't the NCAA just be explicit about it? Why not just put in a clear, official, written rule stating that no more than, say, four teams from a single conference will be allowed into the field? But as long as the rules say that at-large teams are selected without respect to conference, then I sure hope the selection committee is abiding by that and truly making the best effort to select the best available teams.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying this out of any worry that a fifth CAA team might get "hosed." Truth be told, I have no great personal stake in seeing a lot of CAA teams in the field. I'll probably root for whichever ones make it, sure, but everything else being equal (i.e., so long as the at-large teams selected are truly the best eight), I'd actually rather see greater conference diversity in the field (which is why I'd have no problem if the NCAA formally instituted a cap). I just find it disheartening that the NCAA might very well be deceiving teams and conferences about what it actually takes to earn an at-large bid.

It realize it's naive to expect total transparency, but I wish the NCAA would at least address decisively the perception that there's an invisible cap going on, and remove any ambiguity about this kind of thing.

[GolfingGriz]

The last time "Hampton, Laugh-ayette and LeHigh" met one of those tough Griz opponents from middle America, and also the last year we didn't have regionalization, so teams could face anyone first round.

So are you implying that the Patriot is just as tough as the Gateway?xeyebrowx

[AZGrizFan]

xsmiley_wix

Oh, that wasn't complaining, that was fact. xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx

[Col Hogan]

Has there EVER been a year that a team was not Hosed...should have gotten in (in most people's opinion, but didn't) while a team or teams got in due to an auto-bid that folks wished hadn't?

I'll answer that question...NO!!!

If we did away with auto-bids (I'm not advocating that, but we know those who would ...cue the PFL folks) we could see some conferences get five, easy...(Read CAA, because of size and SOS)

But since we all kinda subscribe to the notion of ANY GIVEN SATURDAY, I think the current system has worked pretty darn well...

So, yea, someone will get "hosed" this year, and it could be a CAA team...or maybe this is the year the selection committee really does consider just records, SOS, etc......


Na........

[UMass922]

Has there EVER been a year that a team was not Hosed...should have gotten in (in most people's opinion, but didn't) while a team or teams got in due to an auto-bid that folks wished hadn't?

I'll answer that question...NO!!!

If we did away with auto-bids (I'm not advocating that, but we know those who would ...cue the PFL folks) we could see some conferences get five, easy...(Read CAA, because of size and SOS)

But since we all kinda subscribe to the notion of ANY GIVEN SATURDAY, I think the current system has worked pretty darn well...

So, yea, someone will get "hosed" this year, and it could be a CAA team...or maybe this is the year the selection committee really does consider just records, SOS, etc......


Na........

I agree that the system has worked pretty well. I'm fine with it as it is (though there are different ways of doing it that I'd be equally fine with). I'm just saying that it wouldn't hurt for the at-large criteria to be a little more clear. If the NCAA doesn't want five teams from a conference, they should just be up front and say so. Teams are always going to be "hosed," yes, but I think if Team X gets left out of the playoffs because there were already too many teams from its conference in, it ought to know that.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

How do we know that the committee won't put in 5 from a conference if the number of solid candidates is low in other conferences and their SoS is inferior? The situation that we are in this year may be different from that any of any other year. I really can't see the committee leaving Richmond, Delaware, JMU, UMass, or New Hampshire out if they are at least 8 wins.

[BDKJMU]

The Atlantic 10, now CAA had 4 selections in 2004 and 2006.

Was only 3 last year, UMass, UNH & JMU

[WrenFGun]

Yeah, there is nothing that expressly states that 5 teams won't get in. If UNH/JMU/UR are all 8-3, they are better than most, if not all, 8-3 teams, and all deserve to get in. I EXPECT the CAA to get 5.

[89Hen]

So are you implying that the Patriot is just as tough as the Gateway?xeyebrowx
No, you are inferring that. I was responding to...


It is funny that when Big Sky teams lose it's beacause "their opponents are so strong... they get screwed with who they have to play". But when CAA teams win it's because "their opponents are so weak.. the get lucky with who they have to play".

Furthermore, when NAU beats McNeese in Lake Charles it's the greatest victory in the history of I-AA, but when Maine does it... well, they lost next round (nevermind that NAU did too).

BTW, Montana's first round opponents...

2006 - McNeese (7-4)
2005 - Cal Poly (8-3)
2004 - Northwestern State (9-3)
2003 - Western Illinois (9-3)
2002 - Northwestern State (8-3)
2001 - Northwestern State (8-3)
2000 - Eastern Illinois (8-3)

Wake me up next time you face a team with less than three losses.

And any ONE of those opponents would mop the floor with Hampton, Laugh-ayette and LeHigh.
xnodx

[Khan4Cats]

I agree that the system has worked pretty well. I'm fine with it as it is (though there are different ways of doing it that I'd be equally fine with). I'm just saying that it wouldn't hurt for the at-large criteria to be a little more clear. If the NCAA doesn't want five teams from a conference, they should just be up front and say so. Teams are always going to be "hosed," yes, but I think if Team X gets left out of the playoffs because there were already too many teams from its conference in, it ought to know that.

That seemed to be the main reasoning behind choosing Montana State over UNI last year, the Gateway already had 3 teams in and they didn't want to put in another. Last year was a little different as there was going to be a 7-4 team get in, warts and all. If there aren't a lot of candidates to choose (Cal-Poly, EWU, WIU don't get to 8-3) then you might see 5 CAA, but I could also see the NCAA taking a second OVC (EIU or JSU), a second MEAC (if DSU loses to NSU), even a second Patriot.

[HensRock]

Which year was this?

2000

[UMass922]

That seemed to be the main reasoning behind choosing Montana State over UNI last year, the Gateway already had 3 teams in and they didn't want to put in another. Last year was a little different as there was going to be a 7-4 team get in, warts and all. If there aren't a lot of candidates to choose (Cal-Poly, EWU, WIU don't get to 8-3) then you might see 5 CAA, but I could also see the NCAA taking a second OVC (EIU or JSU), a second MEAC (if DSU loses to NSU), even a second Patriot.

Agreed; I think UNI was definitely the most qualified of all the 7-4 teams last year.

[grizbeer]

Agreed; I think UNI was definitely the most qualified of all the 7-4 teams last year.
Really? UNI had losses to D-II UND, Iowa State, Western Ill and SO Ill, with an OOC win over Drake.

Portland State had losses to Montana, Montana State, Oregon, and Cal, wiht an OOC win over New Mexico. I would have to say Portland State had the better resume last year.

[UMass922]

Really? UNI had losses to D-II UND, Iowa State, Western Ill and SO Ill, with an OOC win over Drake.

Portland State had losses to Montana, Montana State, Oregon, and Cal, wiht an OOC win over New Mexico. I would have to say Portland State had the better resume last year.

You're only looking at the losses. UNI had much better wins--over Illinois State, Western Kentucky, Youngstown State, and South Dakota State. In my opinion, they did much more than PSU or MSU to demonstrate an ability to beat top FCS teams--and that's how I, at least, would decide what teams are worthy of a playoff bid. But everyone (including the selection committee, apparently) has different criteria.

[YoUDeeMan]

You can when their opponents are Hampton, Laugh-ayette and Lehigh.;)

Yeah, those Patriot league teams have been bad. In addition to the gmae 89Hen mentioned, ask App St about the Patriot team they faced in 2005 - you know, the one that punched the eventual champs in the mouth for nearly 3 quarters.

And ask everyone about the Colgate team they faced in 2003.

xwhistlex

[UMass922]

Yeah, those Patriot league teams have been bad. In addition to the gmae 89Hen mentioned, ask App St about the Patriot team they faced in 2005 - you know, the one that punched the eventual champs in the mouth for nearly 3 quarters.

And ask everyone about the Colgate team they faced in 2003.

xwhistlex

Agreed. The Patriot teams almost always give you a good game in the playoffs, and sometimes they win. That conference has nothing to be ashamed about. They represent themselves well in the playoffs.