NAU's eventual move to Division I-A

[Lumberjacks76]

I'm not sure when this will happen, but my guess is sometime in the next couple of decades. I'm hoping NAU will move to Division I-A by 2015 or so. They can't stay Division I-AA forever, and the school needs more resources for money. A BCS Conference and BCS Bowl would be very attractive to NAU should they win a couple of Division I-AA National Championships.

And then there's the prospect of playing ASU and UofA every year in football. That must be enticing to the NAU Administration.

Paul

[Green Cookie Monster]

Good luck, you'll have to build a bigger dome. Look at Idahow.

[Eagle_77]

Being that you would be the new kid on the block I doubt you would get a game every year with ASU or UA. Is there room in the Pac 10 for you guys to go to a BCS confernce out there? Do you think that they would expand to 12 teams and if they do who will the other school be? I dont think that the Pac 10 wants to become a super conference but I could be wrong.

[TexasTerror]

Your very dilusional...

Is I-A even going to exist in 2015? Will it even exist in 2010?!? Probably not...

Win a couple of I-AA national titles? Now your talking like those folks in San Marcos at TxSt-San Marcos. Only difference, they've never been to the playoffs and you have...

Keep dreaming. Your the guy that keeps asking about financial concerns. Your obviously on the outside looking in with no clear cut clue about your department. Talk to some insiders...

[youwouldno]

I imagine Utah would be added to the PAC-10 before anyone else, let alone a not so good I-AA team.

[Lumberjacks76]

The only reason I ask is that a reporter from a newspaper asked Coach Jerome Souers about the possibility of a move to Division I-A in football. Coach responded by saying that it was a "pie-in-the-sky" idea.

Paul

[IaaScribe]

That reporter, Mark Shaffer from the Arizona Republic, was drawing at straws. I like Mark, he's good people, but there's no story there.

NAU has ZERO interest in moving to I-A. And, yes, I am an insider, or at least a former one. And the Pac-10 would laugh, laugh, laugh and laugh at the idea of NAU going to their conference.

NAU operates one of the smaller budgets in the Big Sky. It doesn't have the revenue streams and fan support to even think about this move. NAU averages around 8-9K fans a game, at best. You have to be at 15,000. That simply won't happen. NAU continues to be a school where the students go home to Phoenix at every chance and really don't care to stick around and watch athletics. Even when the hoops team was at its best, before dumbass Adras drove it into the ground, they'd get 2-3K for a big Big Sky game. Hell, they barely drew 3,000 when Oregon came to town.

NAU will not go I-A. Not in 2015. Not ever.

[Lumberjacks76]

Even if NAU built a new stadium specifically for football, to house over 30,000 people? I could see the Skydome being used for basketball and other indoor sports. I just can't imagine why NAU would never be in the position to move up. What if they win a lot at this level?

Paul

[TexasTerror]

Even if NAU built a new stadium specifically for football, to house over 30,000 people? I could see the Skydome being used for basketball and other indoor sports. I just can't imagine why NAU would never be in the position to move up. What if they win a lot at this level?

It'll be too late...not enough time before Div I-A vanishes and we're all in Div I...

[Eagle_77]

Not picking on you Paul but thats a pretty big what if? You guys have had some pretty decent teams but none of them have been Dynasties if you know what i mean.

[89Hen]

Coach responded by saying that it was a "pie-in-the-sky" idea.
That's putting it mildly. The easy answer is, no way does NAU get invited to a BCS conference.

[Lumberjacks76]

Well, I think if NAU can defeat Arizona this week it would be a step in the right direction. We need more money and we need boosters to step up and help the financial situation of this football program.

Even if NAU doesn't move up, they can at least schedule a Division I-A team every single year as a pay day.

Paul

[ucdtim17]

The situation in California seems to be inevitably pointing towards I-A or bust for football (with a lot of busts). Division 2 is on its deathbed west of the Rockies (Central Washington, WW, Humboldt, and WOU are playing each other twice to make a full schedule), with I-AA not far behind. People in the football program at Davis will tell you it seems inevitable that we go I-A (there's a reason they're building the new stadium expandable to 30k). It's already very difficult to put together a full schedule. What happens to the GWFC after UNC leaves next year? If/when the Dakotas join the BSC? I don't think anyone wants to go the independent route again. But we'll see

[Lumberjacks76]

So is I-AA football, in general, doomed?

Paul

[henfan]

UCDTim, experts have been predicting the end of I-AA almost since its inception. 27 years later and it's still going strong.

I can't speak for what UCD wants to do down the road, but it's highly likely that 'cost containment' D-I football will be around long into the future. Whether the classification continues to use the I-AA moniker remains to be seen and really isn't important to the division's survival.

[Lumberjacks76]

Well, thanks good to hear. At least the Big Sky Conference, et al, will still be around far into the future.

Paul

[ucdtim17]

I'm not talking I-AA in general, just in the west for everyone who's not in the Big Sky

[TexasTerror]

So is I-AA football, in general, doomed?

Just the moniker...as stated above.

[X-Factor]

It'll be too late...not enough time before Div I-A vanishes and we're all in Div I...

The name may vanish, but there will always be 2 differnet levels of competition. One with more scholarships than the other, ie, depth, talent, national recognition, fan base.... Football is simply just way to competative to not have that intermediate stepping stone (currently called I-AA football).

[Green Cookie Monster]

People in the football program at Davis will tell you it seems inevitable that we go I-A (there's a reason they're building the new stadium expandable to 30k).

You had 6,300 and change at your opening game. You have a long way to go before 30K hits the turnstiles. I read Davis is building the new stadium at 10-12K capacity. Most stadiums are expandable to 30K.

The Sky has discussed moving to IA as a conference. We would have enough IA conference games and could play 2 OOC IA teams for the payday. This is only logical if, IF, the NCAA eliminates the hyphen division and makes everyone IA or D2. Or doesn't force the 15K attendance.

[Lumberjacks76]

I just received an email reply from Jim Fallis, the Director of Athletics for NAU.

According to Jim, the costs associated with moving to Division I-A (in football) would almost certainly require an endowment of the program in excess of $300 million.

Paul

[ucdtim17]

You had 6,300 and change at your opening game. You have a long way to go before 30K hits the turnstiles. I read Davis is building the new stadium at 10-12K capacity. Most stadiums are expandable to 30K.

The Sky has discussed moving to IA as a conference. We would have enough IA conference games and could play 2 OOC IA teams for the payday. This is only logical if, IF, the NCAA eliminates the hyphen division and makes everyone IA or D2.

School doesn't start for a month and no one likes going to games at Toomey anyways. The new stadium will have 10-12k seats, with grass seating for ~16k. We'll see how we do next year; if we have only 6k at games next year, then you have a point. But attendance at Toomey doesn't really mean anything at this point in time; it only fits 8k.

There's not a real obvious option for I-A now, as UCD fits perfectly in the Big West for other sports. Unlikely the WAC would take a FB-only member, but they are taking Sac as a baseball-only member. Who knows

[colgate13]

Division 2 is on its deathbed west of the Rockies

D II is on its deathbed everywhere IMO, with perhaps the exception of the PA. I've never really understood D II.

[89Hen]

in excess of $300 million.
End of that string.

[Lumberjacks76]

I'm not sure where such a large endowment could come from? Bill Gates? Paul Allen? Someone with a lot of money and a vested interest in NAU athletics.

Paul

[Marcus Garvey]

D II is on its deathbed everywhere IMO, with perhaps the exception of the PA.

Amen. D-II is pretty much the same as D-III, with 36 scholarship equivalents vs. 0 for D-III.

For D-II: Get rid of Football scholies to level the playing field. I also think Public schools should all be in D-II. The SUNY colleges, NJ State schools and Wisconsin satellites all have inherit advantages over the bulk of D-III members which are primarily private liberal arts colleges. D-III wasn't meant to be a haven for 2nd and 3rd tier public schools with 6k or more in undergrad enrollement.

[Marcus Garvey]

With respect to NAU or even UC-Davis going I-A, I highly doubt the Pac-10 would be interested.

If the Pac-10 were to expand, they'd probably add 2 members. The choices are in this order:
Utah, BYU, Colorado (Yeah, I know the Buffs are in Big-12, but many in the Pac-10 would like CU), Colorado St.... everybody else, including Fresno and San Diego St., who are way down the list.

[Lumberjacks76]

Maybe not the PAC-10 for NAU, but how about the Western Athletic Conference?

Paul

[TexasTerror]

Maybe not the PAC-10 for NAU, but how about the Western Athletic Conference?

What does NAU bring to the table? Has your school had any success in any sport outside of football making it to the playoffs? I've never seen your school in the Big Dance. No NCAA baseball playoffs either?

What's your school bring to the table?

[IaaScribe]

NAU has made two trips to the NCAA tournament, losing by three to Cincinnati in 1998 and by four to St. John's in 2000, both times as a No. 15 seed.

There is no baseball. In fact, most of the men's sports have been doomed by Title IX - swimming, wrestling, baseball.

NAU brings nothing to the table in terms of I-A. They've never publicly, or even off the recordly (is that a phrase?), considered I-A. They know how much work it would take for it to happen, and they don't have rich alumni who care enough to make it work. Plus, no one else in the Big Sky is interested in moving I-A (though Portland State yapped about it several years ago).

There is no logical reason for NAU to think of it. This whole discussion is pointless, Paul.

[TexasTerror]

Heck, your VB team got handled by Lamar, who's a cellar-dweller in the SLC (which is in the lower third of VB conferences). Your school brings nothing outside of a smidge above average football team.

Two trips to the Big Dance since 1998 is okay, but what have you done for me lately? WAC needs an RPI boost in basketball. Your no solution...

[IaaScribe]

The volleyball team is a whole 'nother quagmire. They're still rebuilding from when the old VB coach was fired for, uh, being weird with players. Yeah, that's how I'll put it.

[Lumberjacks76]

So the only way for NAU to reach I-A in football is if the whole conference decided to move to I-A?

Paul

[dbackjon]

NAU has made two trips to the NCAA tournament, losing by three to Cincinnati in 1998 and by four to St. John's in 2000, both times as a No. 15 seed.

There is no baseball. In fact, most of the men's sports have been doomed by Title IX - swimming, wrestling, baseball.

NAU brings nothing to the table in terms of I-A. They've never publicly, or even off the recordly (is that a phrase?), considered I-A. They know how much work it would take for it to happen, and they don't have rich alumni who care enough to make it work. Plus, no one else in the Big Sky is interested in moving I-A (though Portland State yapped about it several years ago).

There is no logical reason for NAU to think of it. This whole discussion is pointless, Paul.

NAU has had one of the top 5 cross-country programs in DI - finishing second or third multiple times on both the mens and womens sides.

[IaaScribe]

Which is lovely and all, but it means diddly-poo in terms of moving to I-A football. Cross country could win 16 straight national titles and still bring in zero in revenue to the athletics program.

[TexasTerror]

NAU has had one of the top 5 cross-country programs in DI - finishing second or third multiple times on both the mens and womens sides.

Not this past year. Finished 24th on mens in the nation and women no-showed. The women and men were both 6th in your region, which is a tough region, but still not even recognized as a true XC power like say an Arkansas or Colorado (which swept this past year).

[dbackjon]

Not this past year. Finished 24th on mens in the nation and women no-showed. The women and men were both 6th in your region, which is a tough region, but still not even recognized as a true XC power like say an Arkansas or Colorado (which swept this past year).

Yup - this year was a down year, but over the past 10-15 years, NAU has been one of the top X-Country programs in the nation.

[Lumberjacks76]

Jim Fallis said we'd need an endowment of $300 million. Where are we going to raise that much money?

Paul

[dbackjon]

Jim Fallis said we'd need an endowment of $300 million. Where are we going to raise that much money?

Paul

I think that is the point - NAU can't raise that kind of money, hence no D-IA football.

[IaaScribe]

So the only way for NAU to reach I-A in football is if the whole conference decided to move to I-A?

Paul

No, not at all. But why move? Hell, NAU can't even get within 30 points of Montana. They haven't beaten a I-A team in 18 years. Why do you think this is a good move?

The facilities would have to be tremendously upgraded. They would have to add three or four men's sports, plus another women's sport. They would have to fund 22 more football scholarships, which alone is like $1.5 million.

There are I-AA programs that would transition to I-A just fine, but NAU isn't one of them. The ones that would do well, like Montana, have no desire to do so. Why the hell would UM want to move to the WAC to play for a trip to Boise to face the fifth or sixth-place team in the ACC in a second-tier bowl game when they can compete for a national championship in I-AA every year?

[Lumberjacks76]

Well, that's a question every institution needs to ask themselves. I'm sure NAU is content at Division I-AA. But down the road, in the future, it wouldn't be out of the question to see them consider a move, a la Idaho and Florida Atlantic.

Florida A&M considered a move a few years ago but didn't make the transition. Troy made the move up awhile back. It seems like most of the teams that have moved up (save for Boise and Marshall) have struggled.

I'm not sure if this figure is correct, but some 25% (and only 25%) of all Division I-A teams operate in the black.

Paul

[Green Cookie Monster]

I'm not sure if this figure is correct, but some 25% (and only 25%) of all Division I-A teams operate in the black.

Paul

All recent IA upgrade schools are in the red. The Reno paper had an article asking hypothetically what if Nevada moved back to I-AA. And it's association benefits.....

Take us back to the glory days of I-AA football
JOE SANTORO RENO GAZETTE-JOURNAL
Posted: 9/3/2005 10:33 pm

The Wolf Pack football team cannot win a national championship.
Ever. Not now. Not next year. Not in 2010. Not ever.
The Pack can win all 11 of its games this season, finish first in the Western Athletic Conference, win its bowl game, earn the title “Biggest Little Team in the West,” send a half-dozen seniors to those goofy all-star games and even get a handful of Top 25 sympathy votes.
And it still can’t win a national title.
Such is the life of an unknown school from an insignificant football conference that plays many of its games on Saturday night when the bulk of the country is asleep. This is not Nevada’s fault. Most of the country suffers the same fate in the wonderful world that is big-time, ESPN college football.
Ah, but it wasn’t always this way. The Wolf Pack used to play meaningful football games at Mackay Stadium. It used to fill our Saturday afternoons with incredible memories and legends.
Frank Hawkins scoring in the final minute to force overtime against Eastern Kentucky. Tony Zendejas kicking an overtime field goal to beat North Texas. Blocking an extra point to beat Arkansas State by one. Chris Vargas finding Ross Ortega for a touchdown and Joe King for the 2-point conversion with 16 seconds to play to force overtime against Furman. Outlasting Boise State in triple overtime in what just might be the greatest game in Mackay Stadium history.
All of those games happened in the playoffs. Yes, the playoffs. You remember the playoffs, don’t you, Pack fans? If not, go ask your older brother or your dad. They will entertain you with stories of amazement, of incredible tales of human struggle and accomplishment.
It was called Division I-AA football. Every week was filled with endless possibilities. To be the best in the land was the goal. If you won one triple-overtime thriller you had to do it again the next week. And, if you were lucky, it all ended in a national championship game.
Can we go back? Please? This I-A experiment just isn’t working for football. Oh, sure, the basketball team can go to the NCAA Tournament, win a game or two, and give us a thrill every March. But that can’t happen in I-A football.
One reason is that it is easier to build a winner in basketball. You just need two or three guys with legitimate talent surrounded by a bunch of hard-working role players that listen to the coach. And, faster than you can say Mark Fox, you have a winner.
The second reason is that I-A football has no tournament. No Cinderella stories. No teams that come out of nowhere to capture our imaginations. Division I-A football is just a bunch of rich guys throwing season-ending parties. In I-A football, Cinderella has to drive up to the dance in a $50,000 Hummer before they let her in. When you drive up in the WAC Toyota, they send you to the MPC Computers Bowl in Boise.
Is playing another game in Boise at the end of the year enough of a reward? There is only one college football bowl game that means anything. And the last time we checked ESPN’s schedule, they don’t play that game in Boise.
Football, WAC style, is nothing more than a way to pay for swimming, volleyball, golf, skiing, rifle, tennis and track. That is all well and good. We all have to pay bills. And the Pack will be paying its bills in a few years by going to Nebraska, Arizona State and Florida State.
You can still play those teams if you are I-AA. You can still take on UNLV. You can still play the role of little Nevada knocking off a big, bad Pac-10 team. And after that little fun is over in mid-September, you can get back to the business of winning a I-AA national championship.
Tone down the football program a notch. Pump that extra money into the men’s basketball and baseball programs. Turn yourself into a I-AA football superpower.
Again.
We need more magical Saturday afternoons to amaze our grandchildren.

Yes, the Sky has discussed elevating to IA if the NCAA doesn't enforce attendance.

[Lumberjacks76]

Is 15,000 the minimum for attendance?

Paul

[IaaScribe]

You must average 15,000 minimum for either one year or during a rolling, two-year period. You must also play 60 percent of games against I-A foes. You must play five home games. You must offer 200 scholarships across the board in sports. That means you must spend at least $4M on skollies.

NAU isn't close in any of these areas.

Idaho's move to I-A has been a disaster. They play their home games in another state for crissakes. Marshall is a program that won multiple national championships at I-AA and had a huge state funding base.

If NAU moved up, it would be LUCKY to fare as well as Buffalo, which is 9-59 since moving from I-AA to I-A. It's not in the future. And trying to compare NAU to Florida Atlantic is silly. FAU is a much larger school with more financial backing, not to mention a much better state to recruit in. Arizona stinks prep football wise.

It's exasperating trying to argue this with you, Paul, since you don't seem to want to use logic. So I'll stop now.

[Lumberjacks76]

It's just a possibility, not necessarily a reality. I hope NAU moves up one day, with the right funding and intent.

Paul

[Mr. C]

Marshall is a program that won multiple national championships at I-AA and had a huge state funding base.


The move by Marshall to I-A in football has been a disaster for the rest of the Herd's sports programs. Marshall never really pusued excellence in other sports and those programs are getting even more short changed now that so much of the pie is being spent on football.

On the subject of Northern Arizona and UC Davis, there is no way that these two schools have the resource to compete in I-A and there are no conferences that would have any interest in them. None. It's that simple.

[Mr. C]

With respect to NAU or even UC-Davis going I-A, I highly doubt the Pac-10 would be interested.

If the Pac-10 were to expand, they'd probably add 2 members. The choices are in this order:
Utah, BYU, Colorado (Yeah, I know the Buffs are in Big-12, but many in the Pac-10 would like CU), Colorado St.... everybody else, including Fresno and San Diego St., who are way down the list.
Colorado isn't going anywhere, though the Buffs have always had a large part of their student body from California. And I have to laugh that Colorado State would be considered before Fresno State. The Dogs have a much better overall athletic program that CSU. Fresno State would be a great fit in terms of geography and facilities, but UCLA, USC and Cal wouldn't want to help FSU get a better foot-hold for recruiting. Utah and BYU, if they do anything, would do it together. San Diego State has a lot of problems that would make it a long shot. Geography is about all the Aztecs have going for them and the Pac-10 has snubbed them for years.

[Lumberjacks76]

Probably not now. Maybe in the future, though, if things change.

Paul

[89Hen]

I hope NAU moves up one day
I hope I never see that day at UD.

[blukeys]

Probably not now. Maybe in the future, though, if things change.
Paul

Yes like if the big earthquake hits and takes one half of California off of the continental U.S, and drops it into the Pacific Ocean giving the U. of Nevada beach front property. That is the best prospect for NAU going I-A.

Not to be dismissive of NAU but such a move requires an infusion of millions for years without immediate prospects of paybacks. I just don't see such a taxpayer commitment when Arizona already has 2 I-A programs and a pro football team.

This topic has been a regular staple of conversation on UD boards for years. The reality is that the economics rarely works. Do you really want your reward for an excellent season to be a trip to the Motor City Bowl in gorgeous Detroit in mid-winter?

[Lumberjacks76]

I guess there's not much NAU can do to move up.

Paul

[IaaScribe]

Paul, just to put it in big bright letters:

NAU HAS NO F'IN INTEREST IN MOVING UP!!! NOT NOW, NOT EVER!!!

That feels better.

[NoCoDanny]

The move by Marshall to I-A in football has been a disaster for the rest of the Herd's sports programs. Marshall never really pusued excellence in other sports and those programs are getting even more short changed now that so much of the pie is being spent on football.

On the subject of Northern Arizona and UC Davis, there is no way that these two schools have the resource to compete in I-A and there are no conferences that would have any interest in them. None. It's that simple.

Academically the Pac 10 wouldn't touch Fresno State. Colorado State is on par academically with the Oregons and Arizonas of the world so it's not a stretch on that level. It's not always just about how good the football team is, it's also a partnership between like-minded institutes with similar scope and purpose. The Pac 10 especially wants to continue to cultivate that academic prominence. Does Stanford, Cal, UCLA, want to be associated academically with Fresno?

[pete4256]

I'm not sure where such a large endowment could come from? Bill Gates? Paul Allen? Someone with a lot of money and a vested interest in NAU athletics.

Paul

Hey, I'm a huge football fan, but if I wanted to donate $300 million to Georgia Southern or any other school, I wouldn't put it in football. I mean, priorities! Do you know how little some schools pay their grad students, faculty, and staff?

[AggiePride]

On the subject of Northern Arizona and UC Davis, there is no way that these two schools have the resource to compete in I-A and there are no conferences that would have any interest in them. None. It's that simple.

Simple answers usually come from simpletons. And to consider us as being one of the 1-AA universities that do not have the resources is laughable. In fact I have always had to tolerate the argument that our success has been due to having the resources of a D1-A school when put in comparison to the other small colleges of D2 and D1-AA.

At this point any discussion is pointless. Facilities are being built as we speak, a game with a PAC-10 opponent needs to be played, and a plan to be in the playoffs in the year we are eligible needs to be fulfilled. Until these are accomplished and Davis is fully ratcheted up to the next level, I do not see anyone having any ground to stand on, either way. But to label U.C. Davis as not having the resources is ludicrous, that is the one reason people ask the question in the first place....

The fact that there is even discussion about this topic before we have even been fully transitioned to 1-AA speaks volumes for me.

[Lumberjacks76]

Where is UC Davis in California? Near the L.A. area?

Paul

[OrneryAggie]

On the subject of Northern Arizona and UC Davis, there is no way that these two schools have the resource to compete in I-A and there are no conferences that would have any interest in them. None. It's that simple.

I'm not defending anyone's suggestion that UCD move to IA but stating that the university doesn't have the resources is flat-out incorrect. UCD has a larger student enrollment than ANY IAA school. They are 2 years away from being a full member of the Big West Conf (non-football) but already have the largest athletic budget, and that will only get bigger in the next few years.

Also to state that no IA conf has any interest is incorrect. When UCD annonced plans to move to DI Nevada' AD publicly stated he would like to see Davis join the WAC.

The reason the subject comes up is just as Tim stated, DII and IAA on the left coast are dying. UCD needs a contingency plan for the day when IA is actually cheaper than IAA in Cali (because of travel costs and revenue from bigger name/ more regional opponenets)

UCD is not yet ready for IA nor for the top of IAA. They lack the fan support (which should come when the university shakes the stigma of playing DII Cal St Stanislaus and Cal St Dominguez Hills) and a proper stadium (which will hopefully be done next season). But stating that there is no possibility is categorically false.

[arkstfan]

Some interesting comments.

First off Division II is alive and well in the south in addition to Pennsylvania.

The "up/down" mentality is part of the problem. The job of institutions is to find a classification that is appropriate to their mission and ideals. If that is non-scholarship football then that is where they belong. If it is low scholarship, high scholarship or higher scholarship they need an appropriate venue.

The Division III national champs may not be able to beat a mid-pack SLC team but it doesn't make their accomplishment less. Being Division III national champs means you are the best of the institutions that do not award athletic aid and have elected to compete in the Division reserved for them.

The divisional structure does not exist to group identical competitive abilities but to group schools with similar philosophy about how much aid to award (now we all know there are exceptions within Division I, especially in I-AA football). The divisional structure is not such that Baylor after years of football struggles is told to go to I-AA and open arrival if they fail to compete will they then be asked to go to Division II.

Truthfully, I understand that if an institution in the west thinks I-A is compatible that they need to get on the stick and move because the door of opportunity is there for WAC membership now. Likewise in the south there is opportunity with the Sun Belt. It is no different than the analysis Central Arkansas made. They have contemplated a move to Division I and saw that there was a window of opportunity with the Southland and they ramped up to make the move.

I just hope that those weighing I-A understand that the dynamic is dramatically different. Moving no longer means a one-time investment in additional seats and a one-time ticket push followed by playing enough road games to make 20,000 home/away attendance. Today it means fully funding rides in all sports and having at least sixteen sports and the opportunity for big revenue producing games is not that much greater than the opportunity for I-AA institutions. Moving to I-A to chase game guarantees besides being a bad idea now will not be much more profitable than remaining I-AA.

[arkstfan]

Also to state that no IA conf has any interest is incorrect. When UCD annonced plans to move to DI Nevada' AD publicly stated he would like to see Davis join the WAC.

The reason the subject comes up is just as Tim stated, DII and IAA on the left coast are dying. UCD needs a contingency plan for the day when IA is actually cheaper than IAA in Cali (because of travel costs and revenue from bigger name/ more regional opponenets)


I remembered that comment and also remember thinking "WOW they REALLY don't want Idaho!"

If UCD fully funds the sports it has they will have no trouble meeting the 200 grants awarded requirement. The financial equation for western schools is so different from the rest of the country because there aren't many short trips for I-A schools or I-A schools in football.

[superbrett2000]

Does Stanford, Cal, UCLA, want to be associated academically with Fresno?

Well, they are associated with WSU being in the same conference...

[dbackjon]

Where is UC Davis in California? Near the L.A. area?

Paul

Davis is near Sucramento

[IaaScribe]

Davis has excellent facilities, especially for basketball. They'd be a nice fit in the WAC, if that's the direction they want to go in. Built in rivalries with SJSU, Fresno and UNR are there.

[bkrownd]

The "up/down" mentality is part of the problem. The job of institutions is to find a classification that is appropriate to their mission and ideals. If that is non-scholarship football then that is where they belong. If it is low scholarship, high scholarship or higher scholarship they need an appropriate venue.


You are way too sensible for this forum... ;)

[ucdtim17]

Not only did the UNR AD express interest in UCD, Stanford AD Ted Leland has said he would like to schedule UCD every other year (http://www.ucdavis.edu/spotlight/0905/facing_stanford_sochor.html). I don't see us joining the WAC anytime soon, as that doesn't make any sense for any sport other than football. Maybe FB-only, but it's a ways off

[Mr. C]

Academically the Pac 10 wouldn't touch Fresno State. Colorado State is on par academically with the Oregons and Arizonas of the world so it's not a stretch on that level. It's not always just about how good the football team is, it's also a partnership between like-minded institutes with similar scope and purpose. The Pac 10 especially wants to continue to cultivate that academic prominence. Does Stanford, Cal, UCLA, want to be associated academically with Fresno?
So what is wrong with Fresno State academically? There are many programs there that among the best in the country. I wouldn't trade my journalism experience at Fresno State for anywhere. We were ranked No. 1 in the country in the Hearst National Writing Competition during my senior year (Is that like winning the I-AA national championship? Maybe I should have gotten a ring). FSU is also good in engineering, business, music, theater and other programs. The support that the football team gets academically is something that should be considered by schools around the country. There are distinguished alums and faculty in a number of fields from our school, including the flight commander of the tragic space shuttle, a Pulitzer Prize winning poet, the former editor-in-chief and vice president of UPI (and the man who was my writing coach at FSU) and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. The mission at Fresno State is different than at UCLA and Cal (USC and Stanford are private schools). But there is more to a school and its quality of education than its SAT scores. Yes, Fresno State takes Prop 48 athletes and yes, nearly all of them graduate. What is wrong with taking borderline kids and make them productive citizens? A lot of Fresno State's athletic facilities would put those at UCLA, Cal, Stanford and USC to shame (at least we have on-campus football and basketball facilities that weren't built at the turn of the 20th century).

The Pac-10 might consider Utah, or BYU someday. The conference would have absolutely NO interest in Colorado State for a number of reasons. I no Colorado State is a great school (one of my best friends graduated from there), but there is no way that will happen. Chances are that Fresno State will end up in the Mountain West, back with its old friends from the WAC, including Colorado State, somewhere down the road.

[Mr. C]

Simple answers usually come from simpletons. And to consider us as being one of the 1-AA universities that do not have the resources is laughable. In fact I have always had to tolerate the argument that our success has been due to having the resources of a D1-A school when put in comparison to the other small colleges of D2 and D1-AA.

At this point any discussion is pointless. Facilities are being built as we speak, a game with a PAC-10 opponent needs to be played, and a plan to be in the playoffs in the year we are eligible needs to be fulfilled. Until these are accomplished and Davis is fully ratcheted up to the next level, I do not see anyone having any ground to stand on, either way. But to label U.C. Davis as not having the resources is ludicrous, that is the one reason people ask the question in the first place....

The fact that there is even discussion about this topic before we have even been fully transitioned to 1-AA speaks volumes for me.
I don't appreciate being called a "simpleton." I know more about UC Davis than you might think. While you my be building new facilities, UC Davis is a long way from having what it takes to succeed at the I-A level. Why are you talking about I-A when you haven't even transitioned to I-AA? I have been on your beautiful campus many times and I know what type of athletic facilities you have. And I love the town of Davis. But at this point, you don't have the resources (there is more to resources than a few dollars from alums). Maybe in the future, but not now. Teams that are in too much of a hurry to leap into the so-called "Big Time" usually end up on the scrap heap.

[Lumberjacks76]

Idaho's record since joining Division I-A in 1996:

1996: 6-5
1997: 5-6
1998: 9-3
1999: 7-4
2000: 5-6
2001: 1-10
2002: 2-10
2003: 3-9
2004: 3-9
2005: 0-1

41-63 (.394)

Paul

[AggiePride]

I don't appreciate being called a "simpleton." I know more about UC Davis than you might think. While you my be building new facilities, UC Davis is a long way from having what it takes to succeed at the I-A level. Why are you talking about I-A when you haven't even transitioned to I-AA? I have been on your beautiful campus many times and I know what type of athletic facilities you have. And I love the town of Davis. But at this point, you don't have the resources (there is more to resources than a few dollars from alums). Maybe in the future, but not now. Teams that are in too much of a hurry to leap into the so-called "Big Time" usually end up on the scrap heap.

Thats why I said usually, as in this case it seemed out of place.

But what you just wrote is a long backstep from:

"On the subject of Northern Arizona and UC Davis, there is no way that these two schools have the resource to compete in I-A and there are no conferences that would have any interest in them. None. It's that simple."

And you even managed to cover some of my talking points and avoid the fact that the first phase of a brand new stadium and full facilities you have never seen will be in place on campus next year.

But to say that Davis needs some transitioning time before actually contemplating the move is pretty much "Duh".....

As for no conference wanting us and not ultimately having the resources, I stick with Orney's words, you are catagorically wrong.

[ucdtim17]

From page 1 of the SF Chronicle sports page today:

Aggies' night on Farm
UC Davis ventures into unknown at Stanford

Playing Stanford is almost like a trip to Mars for UC Davis.

"This is uncharted territory," Aggies football radio analyst Doug Kelly said.

"This puts us in a different time and place," former UC Davis coach Jim Sochor said.

"This is something we've all dreamed of," UC Davis assistant promotions coordinator Greg Ortiz said. "I'm at a loss to explain how big it is to us."

It is hard to explain why up to 8,000 stoked UC Davis supporters will bus to Saturday night's game at Stanford, and why the Davis fire truck, a sort of mascot on wheels, will make its first road trip and park near Stanford Stadium. It has more to do with perception than touchdowns.

UC Davis likes to compare itself to Stanford, both in academics and in the way things are done. Now, for one night, the Aggies are on the same playing field with the Cardinal, both physically and metaphorically.

"First and foremost, it's just the visibility," UC Davis athletic director Greg Warzecka said. "It's important to the university as a whole. It sets us up to say, 'Look how our program is progressing.' "

UC Davis has not played a football game in front of more than 21,000 fans, has not played a Division I-A school in eight years, has not played a current Pac-10 school in 65 years, and has not played Stanford in 73 years. All that will change Saturday.

"This places the university in a different light," Sochor said. "It's important for the Davis medical school, the law school, the engineering school. It's where we want to be."

Moving on up

Where UC Davis is now is in the third year of a five-year transition from Division II to Division I-AA, and although the university has no plans to make the next step to Division I-A, Sochor and current Aggies coach Bob Biggs easily can imagine UC Davis being a I-A football program within 15 or 20 years.

"It has all the ingredients," Biggs said.

A new stadium scheduled to be completed by next year will seat only about 12,000, although it is expandable, and Sochor showed during his 19-year tenure as Davis' coach that the Aggies might be able to compete on the field. His Aggies beat Division I-A Pacific three times between 1978 and 1986, including a 1986 win that came one week after Pacific beat Minnesota.

Then there was the Aggies' 2003 scrimmage against Stanford, which meant different things to different people.

For one thing, it facilitated the scheduling of Saturday's game. Warzecka and Stanford athletic director Ted Leland viewed the proceedings together, and Leland was impressed by the fact that several hundred Aggies fans had bussed to Stanford for the event. When Warzecka said he thought 10,000 to 15,000 UC Davis fans would come for a real game, "Ted sort of slid off his chair a little," Warzecka said.

Three days after the scrimmage, Leland said, San Jose State called, asking to get out of its 2005 game with Stanford, and UC Davis was put into that slot.

What happened on the field two years ago was significant, too. Aggies fourth-year junior cornerback Nevan Bergan said people laugh when he tells them UC Davis will face Stanford in a real game, but he is not in awe of the Cardinal after playing in that 2003 scrimmage.

"I expected them to be a little better," Bergan said. "They were not as fast as I thought, and not as big as I thought."

Biggs and Warzecka said the fact that UC Davis outplayed Stanford that day means nothing and does not represent the wide disparity between the two programs, with the Cardinal having more than twice as many scholarships as the Aggies. They noted that UC Davis players were jacked up for the scrimmage, even receiving a celebration penalty after their first touchdown, and used much of their offensive playbook with one of the best offensive lines in UC Davis history.

Stanford treated it like an integrated practice, which is what the Cardinal called it, exhibiting little emotion and using only the most basic offenses and defenses.

Finding a niche

Bergan was not recruited by Pac-10 coaches, who told him he needed 4.5 speed in the 40. Bergan takes 4.7 seconds to cover 40 yards and is typical of the UC Davis players, many of whom are a few inches too short or a few tenths of a second too slow for I-A ball.

A few are like offensive lineman Elliot Vallejo, who was recruited by several Pac-10 schools and started college at UCLA. He left after one season, partly, he said, because he was discouraged from taking classes he needed for his engineering major, because they coincided with football practice.

At UC Davis, he will miss half of the Tuesday and Thursday practices to take classes required for his degree, and no one seems to mind.

Vallejo found his niche at Davis, and he believes the Stanford game is bigger for those around the program than for the players themselves.

"As a program, this is huge," he said, "It could be a turning point."

Especially if the Aggies stay close. Surely, they can't win, can they?

Well, in 1992, Arkansas lost its opener to Division I-AA The Citadel, which resulted in Arkansas coach Jack Crowe getting fired the next day. Just a few days ago, Indiana had to score a touchdown in the final minute to eke out a 35-31 home win against Division I-AA Nicholls State, which had been away from school and practice for a week because of Hurricane Katrina.

Though 0-2, UC Davis has a standout wide receiver in Tony Kays, who leads all NCAA players in receptions per game with 13.5. He was named the Great West Football Conference Offensive Player of the Week for his school- record 15 catches for 165 yards in a loss to Portland State on Saturday.

Stanford coach Walt Harris knows the danger of playing a Division I-AA school. Harris' 2004 Pittsburgh team, which wound up in the Fiesta Bowl, nearly lost to Division I-AA Furman, overcoming a 17-point, third-quarter deficit before winning in overtime last September.

UC Davis at least should make a better showing than it did in its only other meeting with Stanford, back in 1932. In that 59-0 thrashing, the Aggies were outgained 605 yards to 53, even though only four Stanford regulars played. Pop Warner, Stanford's coach, did not even bother to attend the game, choosing to scout the following week's opponent, Cal.

Presumably, Harris will show up Saturday night, along with thousands of excited Aggies fans and a UC Davis fire truck that will toot a train whistle after every Aggies touchdown -- if there are any.

Saturday's game
Who: UC Davis vs. Stanford

Where: Stanford Stadium

When: 7 p.m.

Radio: 910 AM

TV: None

E-mail Jake Curtis at [email protected].

Aggies' night on Farm (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2005/09/15/SPGIOENFVN18.DTL)

[GannonFan]

Great article - it's easy to see why UC Davis has always been successful at any level of football - they easily have one of the better followings in all of IAA - it's just great, with them and NDSU, that there are some great programs with great followings coming on board - it just makes IAA that much better to watch. Keep it up.

[AggiePride]

Great article - it's easy to see why UC Davis has always been successful at any level of football - they easily have one of the better followings in all of IAA - it's just great, with them and NDSU, that there are some great programs with great followings coming on board - it just makes IAA that much better to watch. Keep it up.

It can be hard to get our fans excited. People look to attendance figures, but often we play 3-4 games before school even starts and after 34 winning seasons, it takes a pretty good game/team to get them to come out of the wood work. Too spoiled...

But I think that will ALL change once the new stadium is up, it will really change the atmosphere. There is not even decent parking at the current one, and it looks like a H.S. stadium with extra bleachers........

THe new stadium will almost be directly between all the dorms, have parking and be a real college atmosphere. I think attendance is going to soar next year and beyond.

[GannonFan]

Hope it goes well - from a UD standpoint, while it's nice being one of the only real big programs in terms of support, money, etc, it would be better to have more teams build up their programs. The JMU's and others of the world are getting better too so hopefully that will just make for a stronger IAA world.