App. St. defense against the spread option

[vaughtdj]

So I just took a look at the highlight video of georgia southern versus app state and what stood out to me most was app st. lack of an answer for Foster and the spread option....

and now I am realizing that app st. lost to wofford who also uses a spread option offense. and app st came close to losing to northewrn arizona, who, not so coincidentally, uses a spread option offense.

app st. (as well as Oregon a week later) proved that the Michigan defense had no answer for the spread option... could it also be possible that app st. cannot adjust to this emerging offense?

if app st. cannot then they may be in a little trouble. They still need to play Furman, Citadel and Chatanooga- all of whom incorporate the spread option or have a running qb.

[boonegoon]

Wofford uses a more traditional wishbone style. The fact is the run defense in general has proven to be lackluster. The three really tough games, Michigan, Wofford and GSU all piled on the running yards.

[ASU88]

... and what stood out to me most was app st. lack of an answer for Foster and the spread option....

... and app st came close to losing to northewrn arizona, who, not so coincidentally, uses a spread option offense.

You are correct that App St is struggling to defend the spread offense. xnodx

You are quite a bit off base in stating that ASU "came close to losing" to NAU. It was a close game for most of 3 quarters, but we were up by as much as 3 scores in the 4th. They had to score late to make it a 2 score game. That is not "almost losing." xnonox

[Rowdy]

You are quite a bit off base in stating that ASU "came close to losing" to NAU. It was a close game for most of 3 quarters, but we were up by as much as 3 scores in the 4th

So you ran the score up in the 4th period?

[WVAPPmountaineer]

It is my opinion (I did see all 3 games) that the offensive attack of Wofford, N.AZ and GSU were all quite different. Wofford does use the wing-bone attack that utilized the option attack and they do it very well but there base offense is not the "spread" option - N. AZ used a spread offense but I don't believe they ran any option - Their QB got some big gainers either running the QB draw or breaking out of the pocket when his receivers were covered. I don't remember GSU hurting us at all with the option attack - They did run the spread but the plays that hurt us were the cut-backs and Jason Foster running with a direct snap or Jason Foster running after taking a hand-off from the QB or Jason Foster catching passes either out of the backfield or from the slot - Also, keep in mind that Wofford and GSU are the two top rushing teams in the country

[PaladinFan]

Furman doesn't run the spread option. At 230 lbs Renaldo Gray isn't exactly Jayson Foster. He runs option from under center.

Furman will attack those young DTs with Felton and then run power option left and right. The way things have gone, I really don't see either team keeping the other from scoring 30.

[Appaholic]

You are correct that App St is struggling to defend the spread offense. xnodx

You are quite a bit off base in stating that ASU "came close to losing" to NAU. It was a close game for most of 3 quarters, but we were up by as much as 3 scores in the 4th. They had to score late to make it a 2 score game. That is not "almost losing." xnonox

Give 'em hell Chuck!

[Appaholic]

So you ran the score up in the 4th period?

Um no, newbie, our defense returned an int for a touchdown and they could not stop our offense..........xasswhipx

[Rowdy]

and they could not stop our offense

Yeah, I'm a newbie here and a little slow to understand. So bear with me. ......App fans said Wofford ran the score up on them in the 4th quarter because they could not stop Wofford's offense. But App didn't run the score up on NAU because NAU could not stop App's offense. OK, I think I understand it now.

[dungeonjoe]

It is my opinion (I did see all 3 games) that the offensive attack of Wofford, N.AZ and GSU were all quite different. Wofford does use the wing-bone attack that utilized the option attack and they do it very well but there base offense is not the "spread" option - N. AZ used a spread offense but I don't believe they ran any option - Their QB got some big gainers either running the QB draw or breaking out of the pocket when his receivers were covered. I don't remember GSU hurting us at all with the option attack - They did run the spread but the plays that hurt us were the cut-backs and Jason Foster running with a direct snap or Jason Foster running after taking a hand-off from the QB or Jason Foster catching passes either out of the backfield or from the slot - Also, keep in mind that Wofford and GSU are the two top rushing teams in the country

Two of Wofford's touchdowns against ASU were passes. You are correct that rushing is primarily Wofford's operating system, but the team has made passing a very viable "fourth option" (as Ayers says).

What seemed to make the difference in the game was the time the ASU defense was on the field. Wofford had the ball almost 10 minutes longer than ASU. On that day, in that heat, that was a strong factor. As it gets colder and as ASU stays in better shape, I suspect the defensive issue of September will be gone for ASU.

[Appaholic]

Yeah, I'm a newbie here and a little slow to understand. So bear with me. ......App fans said Wofford ran the score up on them in the 4th quarter because they could not stop Wofford's offense. But App didn't run the score up on NAU because NAU could not stop App's offense. OK, I think I understand it now.

You'll have to excuse the App fans making that claim.....I certainly would not claim Wofford ran the score up.....Wofford ran the ball on the ground and had App had the cajones to stop Wofford's last drive, then App would have been in postion to score to go ahead.......we didn't run the score up on NAU and Wofford didn't run the score up on us.....anyone who tells you different is delusional........Personally, I'd be too embarrassed to even mention that I allowed a team to run the score up on me.....xnonono2x

[appfan2008]

obviously we didnt run up the score nor did wofford... but back to the main point of this thread was talking about all the spread option offenses we have faced and how sad it is that it is not the case and the guy who started this thread was so wrong multiple times

[ASUG8]

I don't remember GSU hurting us at all with the option attack - They did run the spread but the plays that hurt us were the cut-backs and Jason Foster running with a direct snap or Jason Foster running after taking a hand-off from the QB or Jason Foster catching passes either out of the backfield or from the slot -

Agreed - I think Jason Foster was passing deep to himself into triple coverage for receptions, as well as handing off to himself after centering the ball to himself. The guy was everywhere.

[ASUG8]

Two of Wofford's touchdowns against ASU were passes. You are correct that rushing is primarily Wofford's operating system, but the team has made passing a very viable "fourth option" (as Ayers says).

What seemed to make the difference in the game was the time the ASU defense was on the field. Wofford had the ball almost 10 minutes longer than ASU. On that day, in that heat, that was a strong factor. As it gets colder and as ASU stays in better shape, I suspect the defensive issue of September will be gone for ASU.

Agreed - WU lulled ASU's D into believing all you could do was run, then sprung a halfback pass on us. Time of possession was absolutely key, as a suspect defense (when fresh) began losing steam. WU's misdirection D and occasional passing threat make them quite a force.

[ASUG8]

You'll have to excuse the App fans making that claim.....I certainly would not claim Wofford ran the score up.....Wofford ran the ball on the ground and had App had the cajones to stop Wofford's last drive, then App would have been in postion to score to go ahead.......we didn't run the score up on NAU and Wofford didn't run the score up on us.....anyone who tells you different is delusional........Personally, I'd be too embarrassed to even mention that I allowed a team to run the score up on me.....xnonono2x

Good point - WU didn't run the score up on us. With the way the SoCon is this year, taking a two score lead to the house is a safe(r) bet than counting on a 7 point lead. Running the score up is when you give someone a 70-7 beatdown (El Cid?) although to their credit, I believe their opponent was at that point playing basketball rules with 5 on the field.

[AppChicago]

Two of Wofford's touchdowns against ASU were passes. You are correct that rushing is primarily Wofford's operating system, but the team has made passing a very viable "fourth option" (as Ayers says).

What seemed to make the difference in the game was the time the ASU defense was on the field. Wofford had the ball almost 10 minutes longer than ASU. On that day, in that heat, that was a strong factor. As it gets colder and as ASU stays in better shape, I suspect the defensive issue of September will be gone for ASU.

Good point. It's hilarious what effect heat has on App. At that GSU game, I was sitting in the east side stands (surrounded by GSU fans... that was TOUGH!) and the sun was blazing. I got a pretty good sunburn on my face. Our boys were in black. Couldn't have been comfortable. My black t-shirt was getting warm enough to smell like fresh laundry. As soon as the sun dropped behind the mountain? Boom. The gap closed (though not enough!).

We don't do well in the heat.

[gasouthern01]

Agreed - I think Jason Foster was passing deep to himself into triple coverage for receptions, as well as handing off to himself after centering the ball to himself. The guy was everywhere.


Haa you guys crack me up. he is amazing to watch and at times it seems like he is everywhere. Edwards is in the same Mold, that guy doesn't look nearly as fast as he is. The sad thing is for we GSU fans is we will have to watch Edwards for 2 more years while Foster will be leaving us. Amazing how Van Gorder left him on the bench most of last year...what an a$$.

[appfan2008]

Haa you guys crack me up. he is amazing to watch and at times it seems like he is everywhere. Edwards is in the same Mold, that guy doesn't look nearly as fast as he is. The sad thing is for we GSU fans is we will have to watch Edwards for 2 more years while Foster will be leaving us. Amazing how Van Gorder left him on the bench most of last year...what an a$$.

the only difference between edwards and foster is foster lines up at qb, pr, rb, wr, and more but edwards is just a qb... otherwise both very good

[mrfeem]

it is truly amazing that van gorder didn't use foster to his full potential. in my opinion he is the player of the year in the socon hands down.

[lizrdgizrd]

Haa you guys crack me up. he is amazing to watch and at times it seems like he is everywhere. Edwards is in the same Mold, that guy doesn't look nearly as fast as he is. The sad thing is for we GSU fans is we will have to watch Edwards for 2 more years while Foster will be leaving us. Amazing how Van Gorder left him on the bench most of last year...what an a$$.
How do you leave that guy on the bench?!?! BVG really is the Anti-Christ. xnodx

[PaladinFan]

First off, I don't consider Edwards and Foster in the same mold. Edwards is probably 3 inches taller than Foster and is a far better passer.

I wouldn't get too worried about GSU's "spread" right now. Jayson Foster has been torching FCS football for 3 years. He's just a phenomenal talent. Bring this thread back up when GSU has to rely on a drop back passer and lots of wide receivers. Foster's graduation might be the biggest single loss to any team in college football if you account for how much offensive yardage is attributed directly to him.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Haa you guys crack me up. he is amazing to watch and at times it seems like he is everywhere. Edwards is in the same Mold, that guy doesn't look nearly as fast as he is. The sad thing is for we GSU fans is we will have to watch Edwards for 2 more years while Foster will be leaving us. Amazing how Van Gorder left him on the bench most of last year...what an a$$.

Walking out of the stadium at the end of the game (I did stay until the end - too bad so many "fans" left early) I was saying "good game" to a group of GSU fans and then I asked them the same question - "How did last year's coach NOT utilize Foster - I'm amazed, the guy is so good?" The resounding answer was "Van Gorder was an idiot - just look at how good the Falcons are doing" - That even made me laugh when I really wasn't in a happy frame of mind ---

[seantaylor]

First off, I don't consider Edwards and Foster in the same mold. Edwards is probably 3 inches taller than Foster and is a far better passer.

I wouldn't get too worried about GSU's "spread" right now. Jayson Foster has been torching FCS football for 3 years. He's just a phenomenal talent. Bring this thread back up when GSU has to rely on a drop back passer and lots of wide receivers. Foster's graduation might be the biggest single loss to any team in college football if you account for how much offensive yardage is attributed directly to him.

Saying Edwards is a FAR better passer is a little bit of a reach. Edwards is the better passer, but not by miles. Foster is much faster than Edwards, and they both run a lot harder than their size would indicate.

[gsuwinsudont]

First off, I don't consider Edwards and Foster in the same mold. Edwards is probably 3 inches taller than Foster and is a far better passer.

I wouldn't get too worried about GSU's "spread" right now. Jayson Foster has been torching FCS football for 3 years. He's just a phenomenal talent. Bring this thread back up when GSU has to rely on a drop back passer and lots of wide receivers. Foster's graduation might be the biggest single loss to any team in college football if you account for how much offensive yardage is attributed directly to him.

We wont have to rely on a drop back passer as that lowe is quite fleet footed as well. I'll leave it to others to decide whether they want to worry or not. I think coach hatcher's offensive numbers over the years speak for themselves.xrolleyesx

[already123]

It is my opinion (I did see all 3 games) that the offensive attack of Wofford, N.AZ and GSU were all quite different. Wofford does use the wing-bone attack that utilized the option attack and they do it very well but there base offense is not the "spread" option - N. AZ used a spread offense but I don't believe they ran any option - Their QB got some big gainers either running the QB draw or breaking out of the pocket when his receivers were covered. I don't remember GSU hurting us at all with the option attack - They did run the spread but the plays that hurt us were the cut-backs and Jason Foster running with a direct snap or Jason Foster running after taking a hand-off from the QB or Jason Foster catching passes either out of the backfield or from the slot - Also, keep in mind that Wofford and GSU are the two top rushing teams in the country



Good point. But lets not discredit NAU. They are the only team in the country (to my knowledge) to have 3 rushers in the top 100 in the country

[bjtheflamesfan]

I find it interesting, and a tad ironic (and this is my first foray into thsi discussion) that App. State uses a spread option offense, and Im sure they practice with it just about every day in practice, and yet they have a hard time stopping it.

[ASUG8]

I find it interesting, and a tad ironic (and this is my first foray into thsi discussion) that App. State uses a spread option offense, and Im sure they practice with it just about every day in practice, and yet they have a hard time stopping it.

Yeah, intuitively you'd think our defense had seen it before.....

Maybe our offense never scrimmages the starting defense?

[parr90]

First off, I don't consider Edwards and Foster in the same mold. Edwards is probably 3 inches taller than Foster and is a far better passer.

I wouldn't get too worried about GSU's "spread" right now. Jayson Foster has been torching FCS football for 3 years. He's just a phenomenal talent. Bring this thread back up when GSU has to rely on a drop back passer and lots of wide receivers. Foster's graduation might be the biggest single loss to any team in college football if you account for how much offensive yardage is attributed directly to him.


What you guys are failing to add or remember is that Foster didnt get all the yards against App. We had two running backs that gained mucho yrds as well. We also started playing a Freshman QB that is a very good passer that can also run which App wasnt prepared for. As far as relying on a passing QB, I would rather that he be starting now and Foster playing at a percy harvin role.

[lizrdgizrd]

Yeah, intuitively you'd think our defense had seen it before.....

Maybe our offense never scrimmages the starting defense?
Maybe our defense stinks. xeyebrowx

[WVAPPmountaineer]

I find it interesting, and a tad ironic (and this is my first foray into thsi discussion) that App. State uses a spread option offense, and Im sure they practice with it just about every day in practice, and yet they have a hard time stopping it.

I don't believe any of the teams we are talking about run the "spread option" as their base offense - A true spread option is what we ran in '05 with Richie at QB, we have run the option out of the spread some this year and last but not to the extent Richie and KRich ran it. Not knocking NAU at all - just that they didn't hurt us with the spread option, nor did GSU (see #4) and Wofford's base is the wingbone option - not the spread option - Of course, just my opinion ---

[terrierbob]

Maybe our defense stinks. xeyebrowx

Maybe ours does, too.

[Biff]

I don't believe any of the teams we are talking about run the "spread option" as their base offense - A true spread option is what we ran in '05 with Richie at QB, we have run the option out of the spread some this year and last but not to the extent Richie and KRich ran it. Not knocking NAU at all - just that they didn't hurt us with the spread option, nor did GSU (see #4) and Wofford's base is the wingbone option - not the spread option - Of course, just my opinion ---

I believe The Citadel was mentioned in this theard and yes we do run the Spread Option as the base offense.

[DSUHornet]

WELL, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT THE SREAD OFFENSE IS PROBABLY THE TOUGHEST OFFENSE TO STOP IN THIS DAY AND AGE DEPENDENT UPON HOW MOBILE YOUR QB IS. ANOTHER STRANGE THING IS THAT THE TEAMS THAT ARE THE BEST AT UTILIZING IT, ARE OFTEN THE WORST AT STOPPING IT. JUST LOOK AT OREGON, AMAZING OFFENSIVLEY, AND WELL DEFENSIVELY UNTIL THEY PLAY A TEAM THAT DOES IT AS WELL. THE KEY TO STOPPING THE SPREAD IS TO COME OUT OF A DOGZ-Q FORMATION WITH 1 OR 2 DOWN LINEMAN YOUR MIDDLE LINEBACKER BE A QUATERBACK SPY OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS ANTICIPATING THE RUSH AND THE REST BE DEFENSIVE BACKS WHO ARE SURE TACKLERS.

[lizrdgizrd]

WELL, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT THE SREAD OFFENSE IS PROBABLY THE TOUGHEST OFFENSE TO STOP IN THIS DAY AND AGE DEPENDENT UPON HOW MOBILE YOUR QB IS. ANOTHER STRANGE THING IS THAT THE TEAMS THAT ARE THE BEST AT UTILIZING IT, ARE OFTEN THE WORST AT STOPPING IT. JUST LOOK AT OREGON, AMAZING OFFENSIVLEY, AND WELL DEFENSIVELY UNTIL THEY PLAY A TEAM THAT DOES IT AS WELL. THE KEY TO STOPPING THE SPREAD IS TO COME OUT OF A DOGZ-Q FORMATION WITH 1 OR 2 DOWN LINEMAN YOUR MIDDLE LINEBACKER BE A QUATERBACK SPY OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS ANTICIPATING THE RUSH AND THE REST BE DEFENSIVE BACKS WHO ARE SURE TACKLERS.
Wow. Please stop yelling. We promise we'll read your posts. Really. :(

[PaladinFan]

What you guys are failing to add or remember is that Foster didnt get all the yards against App. We had two running backs that gained mucho yrds as well. We also started playing a Freshman QB that is a very good passer that can also run which App wasnt prepared for. As far as relying on a passing QB, I would rather that he be starting now and Foster playing at a percy harvin role.

To a degree. When Jayson Foster is in the backfield, he is the sole focus of the defense. Lowe won't beat you by himself and neither will the running back. No, as long as #4 is lined up back there the rest of your offensive backs can do just about anything they want, the defense is still keyed elsewhere.

He makes the players around him better because he takes so much of the focus, IMO. I'll stand by the comment though, it will take Jayson Foster graduating to see just how effective this spread offense is at GSU.

You're right though, they'd be best served lining Foster up and having someone with an arm in the backfield. I'm not yet ready to crown Lowe the second coming of Ingle Martin yet, though. He's played one game.

[DSUHornet]

Wow. Please stop yelling. We promise we'll read your posts. Really. :(



xlolx didnt realize caps lock was on


srry ---> new 2 the forum

xpeacex

[lizrdgizrd]

xlolx didnt realize caps lock was on


srry ---> new 2 the forum

xpeacex
No problem. xthumbsupx

[CharlestonAppFan]

WELL, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT THE SREAD OFFENSE IS PROBABLY THE TOUGHEST OFFENSE TO STOP IN THIS DAY AND AGE DEPENDENT UPON HOW MOBILE YOUR QB IS. ANOTHER STRANGE THING IS THAT THE TEAMS THAT ARE THE BEST AT UTILIZING IT, ARE OFTEN THE WORST AT STOPPING IT. JUST LOOK AT OREGON, AMAZING OFFENSIVLEY, AND WELL DEFENSIVELY UNTIL THEY PLAY A TEAM THAT DOES IT AS WELL. THE KEY TO STOPPING THE SPREAD IS TO COME OUT OF A DOGZ-Q FORMATION WITH 1 OR 2 DOWN LINEMAN YOUR MIDDLE LINEBACKER BE A QUATERBACK SPY OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS ANTICIPATING THE RUSH AND THE REST BE DEFENSIVE BACKS WHO ARE SURE TACKLERS.


It's that easy huh? what university do you coach, cause you could probably make a lot of money with your knowledgexrolleyesx . Not picking on you, but it's easier said than done.

[flexbone]

App St is not alone. The SHOTGUN Spread style offenses (Option or Regular)
are creating problems for everyone. No one is having success stopping them.
It is simple - Spread them out and Attack the weakness. Unless you have Studs with Speed everywhere your defense will be at risk. This style of offense has changed the face of college and high school football. IT IS GREAT. As far as GSU next year without Foster. We'll still be a Spread offense probably with a different run - pass ratio.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

I believe The Citadel was mentioned in this theard and yes we do run the Spread Option as the base offense.

Sorry - I was only referring to the teams App had already played - Yes, your guys run the spread option very well ---

[PaladinFan]

can you imagine a socon team playing with one or two down linemen? get blown off the field.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

can you imagine a socon team playing with one or two down linemen? get blown off the field.

Montana State used something similar to that in last years playoff game in Boone ---

[ASUG8]

can you imagine a socon team playing with one or two down linemen? get blown off the field.

You mean like this weekend? This could be a long trip home from Greenville.

Sorry to hijack, but are FU fans pretty accomodating for visitors (including App)? We'll be down around noon tomorrow and look forward to some pre-game beverages - any advice on what's accepted by the campus police?