Kennesaw State to C-USA?

[HootyHoo]

32579

[crusader11]

It's a lot easier this way...

https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1578480099027873792

[dbackjon]

Good luck!

[FUBeAR]

32579Which one? State or A&M?

They’d both kill ya, BARN(ey) owlet


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZvAXlzbx_A

[VandalBasher]

https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1578480099027873792

I was surprised no one started a thread on this. If I see another thread, I will delete this one.

[JacksFan40]

Technically Hooty made a thread on it, just not with the proper title.

In regards to this news, I’m not surprised really. It’s been known that KSU has been eyeing the FBS and they were on the shortlist for expansion. Best of luck to them.

[BisonFan02]

Another case in point where being able to compete has absolutely nothing to do with joining the FBS ranks.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

Congratulations to Kennesaw State if true, I can only wish that ETSU had that kind of leadership.

P. S. FunnyMaine called, he said no you don't.

[Sitting Bull]

Does this make G5 more appealing or less?

[JSUSoutherner]

From a university standpoint, Kennesaw is far more FBS appropriate than JSU or SHSU.

From an athletics standpoint, woof. They got some serious work to do.

[Reign of Terrier]

If it happens it's not because KSU is some elitely administered athletic department, but because they have access to that sweet sweet Atlanta market.

[OrangeAndBlack]

Well I guess that's the end of the ASUN football dream? I remember when the ASUN board was saying there would be a 20 team mega conference and the likes of UT-Chattanooga and ETSU would be joining. Now what do Austin Peay, Central Arkansas, and EKU do? They were brought in for a football conference that never even launched.

[kdinva]

stadium ideas, if this happens?

[JSUSoutherner]

32579

Well you are 0-2 vs teams from Alabama so far so I'd worry about beating UNA before you try to pretend to be relevant.

[ElCid]

Well I guess that's the end of the ASUN football dream? I remember when the ASUN board was saying there would be a 20 team mega conference and the likes of UT-Chattanooga and ETSU would be joining. Now what do Austin Peay, Central Arkansas, and EKU do? They were brought in for a football conference that never even launched.

And all that poopooing of the SOCON over the last few months. Stability is a wonderful thing. You never know what will happen.

[Professor Chaos]

Well I guess that's the end of the ASUN football dream? I remember when the ASUN board was saying there would be a 20 team mega conference and the likes of UT-Chattanooga and ETSU would be joining. Now what do Austin Peay, Central Arkansas, and EKU do? They were brought in for a football conference that never even launched.
Merging with the Big South seems to be the obvious solution... so it's probably off the table.

[UNHWildcat18]

stadium ideas, if this happens?

They have an expansion plan in place I believe, its in some master campus plan

[OrangeAndBlack]

Merging with the Big South seems to be the obvious solution... so it's probably off the table.

If I'm North Alabama I'm on the phone with the Big South already. No matter what the ASUN has planned for football, you can't delay. They're the bottom of the totem pole and need to get a jump on a stable solution.

I will say for Kennesaw State, they were an excellent ASUN member. They stuck with the ASUN through tough times, and were a huge asset. They deserve excellent treatment from the conference on their departure.

The ASUN was formerly headquartered in Macon when Mercer was in the league. Now they're headquartered in Atlanta. I'm seeing a theme here.

[HootyHoo]

Hooty is very excited. CUSA is the best fit for what this program wants to be. It is a shame that the ASUN never got off the ground. However, the unforeseen shifts in the college football landscape left SHSU, JSU, KSU with no choice but to make the jump to FBS. Hooty would surmise that Missouri State, Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, and Tarleton State will follow suit and join CUSA before 2026. The door is closing. The new FBS is starting to take shape. It’s time.

[taper]

Merging with the Big South seems to be the obvious solution... so it's probably off the table.

Big South is already partnering FB with OVC. There's way too many non-FB members in these conferences to just do a full merge. ASUN FB might be dead before it started.

[JacksFan40]

Does this make G5 more appealing or less?
I’d say it’s the exact same. No matter what FCS fans say, no FCS team is staying in the FCS when they have a good G5 invitation presented to them. JMU was a national title contender yearly and didn’t hesitate to jump to the Sun Belt and never have a shot at winning another national title. The FBS and those Christmas bowl games in the Bahamas will always be more appealing.

[ElCid]

So. Don't know what the deal was regarding FB, but will those in the ASUN for FB, now that it is dying, have any exit fee. Did it get that far? I suspect not, but maybe. Or was it contingent on minimum members? If there was, if they all bail at once they can just all vote no fee, right? Anybody have the detailed dope on this?

[ElCid]

I’d say it’s the exact same. No matter what FCS fans say, no FCS team is staying in the FCS when they have a good G5 invitation presented to them. JMU was a national title contender yearly and didn’t hesitate to jump to the Sun Belt and never have a shot at winning another national title. The FBS and those Christmas bowl games in the Bahamas will always be more appealing.

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe some schools, but I suspect that there are many that realize the cost involved and the dangers involved. If you meant schools on a current trajectory and desire for FBS, then ok. I suppose they are the only ones who "would" get an invite. But not the run of the mill FCS schools or those unable to garner alumni, fan, financial support. There are many FCS schools, bigger than many FBS schools, who could potentially go, but have little or no desire to begin that journey.

[Libertine]

From a university standpoint, Kennesaw is far more FBS appropriate than JSU or SHSU.

From an athletics standpoint, woof. They got some serious work to do.

QFT. KSU as a university fits right in with the bulk of G5 but, from an athletic facilities standpoint, they're waaaaaaaay back in the pack.

First, an FBS KSU is going to need somewhere else to play home games. Fifth Third Stadium is an entry-level soccer/lacrosse stadium and no amount of gameday flourishes is going to change that. 5th/3rd is only relatively acceptable as an FCS stadium simply because worse FCS stadiums exist and it is wholly unacceptable to host FBS games.

Also, despite having had a D1 football program for nearly a decade now, KSU still doesn't have anything that resembles a dedicated football facility. The current KSU football offices, weight room and meeting spaces are all wedged into a rented space in an industrial office park on the other side of I-75. I get that real estate is at a premium in Atlanta but having permanent physical space matters. As an example, Georgia State was in a similar quasi-homeless situation -- albeit with a better gameday facility in the Georgia Dome -- and was a walking disaster for years. But, when they lucked into acquiring Turner Field and moved their whole operation there, GSU was able to completely alter the trajectory of their program.

[BearDownMU]

QFT. KSU as a university fits right in with the bulk of G5 but, from an athletic facilities standpoint, they're waaaaaaaay back in the pack.

First, an FBS KSU is going to need somewhere else to play home games. Fifth Third Stadium is an entry-level soccer/lacrosse stadium and no amount of gameday flourishes is going to change that. 5th/3rd is only relatively acceptable as an FCS stadium simply because worse FCS stadiums exist and it is wholly unacceptable to host FBS games.

Also, despite having had a D1 football program for nearly a decade now, KSU still doesn't have anything that resembles a dedicated football facility. The current KSU football offices, weight room and meeting spaces are all wedged into a rented space in an industrial office park on the other side of I-75. I get that real estate is at a premium in Atlanta but having permanent physical space matters. As an example, Georgia State was in a similar quasi-homeless situation -- albeit with a better gameday facility in the Georgia Dome -- and was a walking disaster for years. But, when they lucked into acquiring Turner Field and moved their whole operation there, GSU was able to completely alter the trajectory of their program.

"Atlanta". LOL

[bonarae]

Meanwhile...

If this succeeds, will Kennesaw become the quickest program to go from zero to FBS while passing through lower divisions? FIU and FAU come to my mind though... xcoffeex

[CockyGeek]

Congratulations for being in Atlanta. I'm curious to where the JSU game will be played every other year because "post-COVID", that game is going to fill up a stadium. I'm not sure about the rest. I wouldn't worry about the stadium right now because you're not going to draw 8k for a game against NMSU.

[UNHWildcat18]

Not very detailed in the design images but page 55/57

https://facilities.kennesaw.edu/resources/Master%20Plan%20Report%20Draft%205.pdf

[Catatonic]

Big South is already partnering FB with OVC. There's way too many non-FB members in these conferences to just do a full merge. ASUN FB might be dead before it started.
I suspect a more viable arrangement is to make the ASUN-WAC alliance more permanent and form a new football conference.

[FUBeAR]

The new FBS is starting to take shape.
Yes. Yes, it certainly is…
https://media.kidadl.com/Shape_Movement_And_Nutrition_Of_Amoeba_ff65620b17. jpg

[katss07]

Congratulations for being in Atlanta. I'm curious to where the JSU game will be played every other year because "post-COVID", that game is going to fill up a stadium. I'm not sure about the rest. I wouldn't worry about the stadium right now because you're not going to draw 8k for a game against NMSU.
What irks me is the fact that there were other schools out there that offer more of a guarantee in terms of fanbase and facilities. Eastern Kentucky, Tarleton, hell maybe SFA or McNeese are all right there. It’s going to be embarrassing for CUSA when 2/3 of their FCS additions can’t get 10,000 fans.

And that’s just from my standpoint as a fan of a future CUSA member.

[The Cats]

and people wondered why the SoCon did not extend an invitation to the Owls..... not looking for a program that only want to be in the conference a few years like Elon did.

[JacksFan40]

What irks me is the fact that there were other schools out there that offer more of a guarantee in terms of fanbase and facilities. Eastern Kentucky, Tarleton, hell maybe SFA or McNeese are all right there. It’s going to be embarrassing for CUSA when 2/3 of their FCS additions can’t get 10,000 fans.

And that’s just from my standpoint as a fan of a future CUSA member.
I don’t think C-USA is done grabbing FCS teams, I expect at least two more to go at some point. As you mentioned EKU and Tarleton are the most likely, with SFA being a possible one. KSU was purely a market move to get into Atlanta, specifically since Georgia State sure as hell isn’t joining C-USA.

I think C-USA would’ve been wise to follow what the Sun Belt did and expand by inviting smaller market schools that have solid programs and good followings, and be centered around one big market. In the case of the SBC it’s Atlanta, C-USA could’ve done like DFW or Houston.

They need to realize they aren’t the AAC, they’re more like the MAC.

[Reign of Terrier]

What irks me is the fact that there were other schools out there that offer more of a guarantee in terms of fanbase and facilities. Eastern Kentucky, Tarleton, hell maybe SFA or McNeese are all right there. It’s going to be embarrassing for CUSA when 2/3 of their FCS additions can’t get 10,000 fans.

And that’s just from my standpoint as a fan of a future CUSA member.

To me, this is why KSU to CUSA is puzzling. Like, yes, I think their team/program is better than people think it is, but it's basically due to great coaching and great recruiting (I think Murphy, their QB is from Los Angeles, for instance).

A lot of the stuff you need to be successful is passable to good (but not great) by FCS standards: home attendance and facilities. Those can be upgraded, sure, but it is a little bit of a head scratcher.

I will say, with those caveats already mentioned, remember that people said the same thing about Coastal Carolina (and Georgia State, who is at least better than they were when FCS)when they moved up. I think CUSA is trying to replicate the Sun Belt strategy of recruiting good FCS football programs, with the long term in mind. "Build it and they will come" sort of thing.

I don't know much about SHSU compared to KSU and on the top of my head, I can't remember who else CUSA invited (Liberty?), but KSU has potential. I don't think this would be a bad move long term, but definitely one people will question until KSU makes big moves at FBS like Coastal and App.

[HootyHoo]

To me, this is why KSU to CUSA is puzzling. Like, yes, I think their team/program is better than people think it is, but it's basically due to great coaching and great recruiting (I think Murphy, their QB is from Los Angeles, for instance).

A lot of the stuff you need to be successful is passable to good (but not great) by FCS standards: home attendance and facilities. Those can be upgraded, sure, but it is a little bit of a head scratcher.

I will say, with those caveats already mentioned, remember that people said the same thing about Coastal Carolina (and Georgia State, who is at least better than they were when FCS)when they moved up. I think CUSA is trying to replicate the Sun Belt strategy of recruiting good FCS football programs, with the long term in mind. "Build it and they will come" sort of thing.

I don't know much about SHSU compared to KSU and on the top of my head, I can't remember who else CUSA invited (Liberty?), but KSU has potential. I don't think this would be a bad move long term, but definitely one people will question until KSU makes big moves at FBS like Coastal and App.

Ok enough. Hooty is tired of this. You want to see facilities? step on KSU's campus to see all of the brand spanking new buildings, all modern LEED certified. An award winning farm-to-table dining hall,phenomenal student housing, etc. I've been on Wofford's campus, it's a glorified high school. A parking lot.

The entire KSU campus as gone through a massive building process starting roughly 15 years ago. This is all part of the University's master plan. CUSA officials saw for that themselves when they visited our campus last week. KSU puts their money where their mouth is. We have just been focused on upgrading the academics and campus first. Now we will unveil our new plan for Athletics at the Board of Regents meeting scheduled for Tuesday.

We don't have a nice stadium now? Wait two years and we will have nicer facilities than anybody in CUSA except Liberty.

[The Cats]

Ok enough. Hooty is tired of this. You want to see facilities? step on KSU's campus to see all of the brand spanking new buildings, all modern LEED certified. An award winning farm-to-table dining hall,phenomenal student housing, etc. I've been on Wofford's campus, it's a glorified high school. A parking lot.

The entire KSU campus as gone through a massive building process starting roughly 15 years ago. This is all part of the University's master plan. CUSA officials saw for that themselves when they visited our campus last week. KSU puts their money where their mouth is. We have just been focused on upgrading the academics and campus first. Now we will unveil our new plan for Athletics at the Board of Regents meeting scheduled for Tuesday.

We don't have a nice stadium now? Wait two years and we will have nicer facilities than anybody in CUSA except Liberty.

Hooty dreaming of new KSU athletic facilities, and thinking its real-life...

https://sites.bu.edu/ombs/files/2015/11/dreaming-636x358.jpg

[JSUSoutherner]

Congratulations for being in Atlanta. I'm curious to where the JSU game will be played every other year because "post-COVID", that game is going to fill up a stadium. I'm not sure about the rest. I wouldn't worry about the stadium right now because you're not going to draw 8k for a game against NMSU.

I thought having the game at SunTrust was pretty cool personally.

But maybe I'm biased because I have skybox access there.

[JSUSoutherner]

Ok enough. Hooty is tired of this. You want to see facilities? step on KSU's campus to see all of the brand spanking new buildings, all modern LEED certified. An award winning farm-to-table dining hall,phenomenal student housing, etc. I've been on Wofford's campus, it's a glorified high school. A parking lot.

The entire KSU campus as gone through a massive building process starting roughly 15 years ago. This is all part of the University's master plan. CUSA officials saw for that themselves when they visited our campus last week. KSU puts their money where their mouth is. We have just been focused on upgrading the academics and campus first. Now we will unveil our new plan for Athletics at the Board of Regents meeting scheduled for Tuesday.

We don't have a nice stadium now? Wait two years and we will have nicer facilities than anybody in CUSA except Liberty.
You clearly haven't seen our stadium designs.

But keep dreaming. You'll get big boy facilities one day.

[HootyHoo]

And you clearly haven't seen our baseball stadium designs for our ELITE baseball program. Can JSU say that about any one of their teams? No, I think not.

[JSUSoutherner]

And you clearly haven't seen our baseball stadium designs for our ELITE baseball program. Can JSU say that about any one of their teams? No, I think not.
Weird, I don't remember seeing Kennesaw when I filled out my March Madness bracket.

But I'm sure CUSA picked you up solely to add a baseball team. You guys can be the CUSA version of Vanderbilt.

[Reign of Terrier]

. An award winning farm-to-table dining hall,phenomenal student housing, etc. I've been on Wofford's campus, it's a glorified high school. A parking lot.

We don't have a nice stadium now? Wait two years and we will have nicer facilities than anybody in CUSA except Liberty.

If your impression of Wofford's campus is that it's a parking lot, you've basically admitted to never going there lol

Can't wait for KSU to build a 20k strong stadium that they can't even fill 40%.

[JSUSoutherner]

If your impression of Wofford's campus is that it's a parking lot, you've basically admitted to never going there lol

Can't wait for KSU to build a 20k strong stadium that they can't even fill 40%.
Or they'll just wait for us to come to town, fill their stadium for them, then boast about their attendance like Chattanooga used to.

[POD Knows]

Weird, I don't remember seeing Kennesaw when I filled out my March Madness bracket.

But I'm sure CUSA picked you up solely to add a baseball team. You guys can be the CUSA version of Vanderbilt.
KSU got upped because they are in Atlanta, that is it and that is all.

[JSUSoutherner]

KSU got upped because they are in Atlanta, that is it and that is all.
I know. But it's Hooty. So let me have my fun.

[HootyHoo]

Location, location, location. So sorry that millions of eyeballs for streaming services is a good thing. However, i wouldn't discount our Baseball program's success in this equation. We have been to the Super Regionals. There is already approved designs and $15M in funding to build a new Baseball stadium. Kennesaw, Ga is right next door to the world class East Cobb baseball complex. If you haven't heard of it, your favorite MLB baseball player probably played there at some point in their youth. The University itself is nothing to sneeze at either; 40K students, beautiful campus with nice weather, and it's academics are comparable with other G5 schools. The only thing it doesn't have is nice Athletic facilities. That's about to change.

[JSUSoutherner]

Location, location, location. So sorry that millions of eyeballs for streaming services is a good thing. However, i wouldn't discount our Baseball program's success in this equation. We have been to the Super Regionals. There is already approved designs and $15M in funding to build a new Baseball stadium. Kennesaw, Ga is right next door to the world class East Cobb baseball complex. If you haven't heard of it, your favorite MLB baseball player probably played there at some point in their youth. The University itself is nothing to sneeze at either; 40K students, beautiful campus with nice weather, and it's academics are comparable with other G5 schools. The only thing it doesn't have is nice Athletic facilities. That's about to change.
I'm going to pretend like the words "millions of eyeballs" didn't get typed like Kennesaw doesn't draw 4k a game.

Also did you really just try to pimp Kennesaw's weather? TF?

I looked at your baseball stadium proposal. When it's done it will be a nice facility. Looks like it will put Kennesaw firmly in the 8th biggest park in the league. So at least you'll get bragging rights over New Mexico State.

[grizband]

Meanwhile...

If this succeeds, will Kennesaw become the quickest program to go from zero to FBS while passing through lower divisions? FIU and FAU come to my mind though... xcoffeex
Old Dominion re-started football in 2009 (hadn't fielded a team since the 40s), and was FBS by 2014, meaning they were even faster than Kennesaw. Charlotte was even faster, becoming an FCS Independent in 2013, and joining the CUSA in 2015.

[Libertine]

And you clearly haven't seen our baseball stadium designs for our ELITE baseball program.

An overall winning percentage of .534 over the last five years is ELITE now? Okey doke.

Also, unless Rachel Ray is in charge of handing out FBS invites, nobody cares about your dining hall.

[ACUmedic]

Old Dominion re-started football in 2009 (hadn't fielded a team since the 40s), and was FBS by 2014, meaning they were even faster than Kennesaw. Charlotte was even faster, becoming an FCS Independent in 2013, and joining the CUSA in 2015.

UTSA started football in 2011 and were FBS in 2012

[grizband]

Old Dominion re-started football in 2009 (hadn't fielded a team since the 40s), and was FBS by 2014, meaning they were even faster than Kennesaw. Charlotte was even faster, becoming an FCS Independent in 2013, and joining the CUSA in 2015.


UTSA started football in 2011 and were FBS in 2012
Can't really go much faster, unless you skip FCS and start in FBS. Thanks for reminding me about UTSA.

[katss07]

I don’t think C-USA is done grabbing FCS teams, I expect at least two more to go at some point. As you mentioned EKU and Tarleton are the most likely, with SFA being a possible one. KSU was purely a market move to get into Atlanta, specifically since Georgia State sure as hell isn’t joining C-USA.

I think C-USA would’ve been wise to follow what the Sun Belt did and expand by inviting smaller market schools that have solid programs and good followings, and be centered around one big market. In the case of the SBC it’s Atlanta, C-USA could’ve done like DFW or Houston.

They need to realize they aren’t the AAC, they’re more like the MAC.
Quality fanbases in traditional college towns beat commuter schools in major markets. Obviously CUSA leadership has not learned this, even after their weak league was picked apart by the lowly Sun Belt Conference and the zombie Big East. I mean there are so many eyeballs on CUSA in markets like Miami, Nashville and El Paso. Why not captivate Atlanta? Makes less sense than adding SHSU! KSU will always be there, no conference is taking them. Adding now, and it not being EKU or Tarleton, is baffling.

You’re right. Maybe they’re not doing adding. It’s new media rights deal is coming up, so we’ll know sooner rather than later.

[NDSU1980]

Congratulations to Kennesaw if you pull this off. I only wish NDSU would do the same. The problem is, we have an athletic director along with a few fans that have their heads up their asses and put down any idea of going FBS.

Go get em Hooty.

[HootyHoo]

Congratulations to Kennesaw if you pull this off. I only wish NDSU would do the same. The problem is, we have an athletic director along with a few fans that have their heads up their asses and put down any idea of going FBS.

Go get em Hooty.

Much appreciated. However, Hooty has been humbled by the disgraceful performance the Owls have put forth this season. Outlawing cut blocking outside the Tackle box is one thing, but KSU is ranked 100 something in total defense after finishing top 25 in the category four years running. Hooty believes change is needed if KSU is to be competitive in CUSA. Both of the coordinators must be fired this offseason. Bohannon will get an opportunity to transition the program to FBS, but he has to show the willingness to adapt to the modern game or else.

[Reign of Terrier]

The only data point you need to know that KSU's defense is trash is that Wofford got 20 points and like 400 yards of offense against them

[Green Cookie Monster]

4,505 attendance? That’s not FBS material.

[MSUBobcat]

4,505 attendance? That’s not FBS material.

But the ATL MARKET!!!! xeyerollx

[Mocs123]

I'm not saying it's the right (or wrong) move for KSU, but they are already a better program than Georgia State was when they moved up.

[ElCid]

I'm not saying it's the right (or wrong) move for KSU, but they are already a better program than Georgia State was when they moved up.

But just think how many more people will go to their games when they are playing North Texas instead of North Alabama. I mean, that's a game changer.

[MUMD]

KSU puts their money where their mouth is.

Most of that money is tax money that I and other Georgians pay in...

[EKUFAN]

Also, unless Rachel Ray is in charge of handing out FBS invites, nobody cares about your dining hall.
Hahahaha! Best comment yet! 🤣

[ElCid]

An overall winning percentage of .534 over the last five years is ELITE now? Okey doke.

Also, unless Rachel Ray is in charge of handing out FBS invites, nobody cares about your dining hall.

Yeah that's a good one. But unfortunately there are some people that think that facilities actually are a top reason to go or not go to a school. I'm not talking about filth vs functional vs unsafe, etc. Nobody want to go to a dump. But a school that has newer fancier, or lots of bells and whistles in their facilities isn't necessarily a good way to choose a school. Obviously living in a barracks and eating family style in a chow hall gives it away that these things were not high on my "must have" list when looking for a school to go to.

[dgtw]

I'm going to pretend like the words "millions of eyeballs" didn't get typed like Kennesaw doesn't draw 4k a game.

Also did you really just try to pimp Kennesaw's weather? TF?

I looked at your baseball stadium proposal. When it's done it will be a nice facility. Looks like it will put Kennesaw firmly in the 8th biggest park in the league. So at least you'll get bragging rights over New Mexico State.

I went to a baseball game there a couple years ago and thought it was nice. Went to a basketball game there last year and the arena was nice enough.

Never been to the football stadium. Yes, it is small and the crowds are laughable, but it will be nice to have a conference opponent just two hours away. So it benefits me and that's all I really care about.

[rtzlunar]

KSU proving with their double OT win over TUNA that they are ready for their move - to Division 2. Hooty - we’ll miss you.

[Reign of Terrier]

But just think how many more people will go to their games when they are playing North Texas instead of North Alabama. I mean, that's a game changer.

I mean, my personal theory why KSU hasn't had good attendance is basically because they're expected to win every game by 30 doesn't encourage a culture attendance. This, especially the case, when there's so many other Georgia teams to watch.

Football in the south is interesting. I'd also say there's a "filtering" effect: the most rabid (or most likely to be rabid) college football fan students are more likely to choose a place known for its college football (Georgia, etc) than an FCS school. For years, I was always curious why Wofford's attendance kind of sucked (even when we were good), and sure college size was part of it (maybe even most of it). But especially if you live in the South, where there's so many schools, and so many big time programs, there was no one saying in the late 2000s "I want to go to a college that wins, I'm going to Wofford, not Carolina." The same can be said for pretty much everywhere except the FCS schools that are the flagship of their state. And maybe those California schools because California is just a weird place.

Anyway, as this relates to Kennesaw, they definitely have the potential to be on the level of App State and James Madison in a decade or two, but they need a more entertaining product (not a better product, I mean, one where they don't blow everyone out at home), and a better stadium. Of course, App State and JMU may be better football schools because they're arguably the most football-focused schools in their respective states, and Kennesaw won't supplant UGA on that ground.

[JSUSoutherner]

I mean, my personal theory why KSU hasn't had good attendance is basically because they're expected to win every game by 30 doesn't encourage a culture attendance. This, especially the case, when there's so many other Georgia teams to watch.

Weird. We've never had a problem getting 20k to come watch us put Murray State in their grave.

And we aren't even in Atlanta.

We've pulled 18.5k for Davidson and 19.5k for Kennesaw this season with only half a stadium due to construction.

Kennesaw has no excuses other than no one cares.

[ksu_owls]

The rumblings I've heard are that KSU has bought the land between the current *soccer*/"football" stadium and Chastain road. The plan is to build a multi-purpose sports/entertainment venue with bars, shops, and 30k capacity stadium (sort of a mini-Battery, for those familiar). I know this type of development will take years, but looking at what KSU has built over the last 10 years I feel confident this complex will be nice and makes for a great long-term play for the Owls.

The county seems to be onboard and will probably carry much of the financial burden as they see the space as future tax revenues.

I wish we had accomplished something in FCS other than a few milestone achievements based around beating weak teams, but I am very excited to see how this plays out over the next decade.

The more complicated part to me is who do we bring in to start running an offense that will allow us more success than our friends at GT who are still dealing with the transitional pain of not running the option.

[Sitting Bull]

Weird. We've never had a problem getting 20k to come watch us put Murray State in their grave.

And we aren't even in Atlanta.

We've pulled 18.5k for Davidson and 19.5k for Kennesaw this season with only half a stadium due to construction.

Kennesaw has no excuses other than no one cares.

Good point.

I don’t really know much at all about Kennesaw State though their departure from FCS - if they do - wouldn’t bother me as an FCS fan at all. Like ODU, Coastal Carolina, Georgia State - they’re been around such a short time, you really have nothing to miss.

The move-ups that hurt are the blue bloods with some history and tradition at the FCS level, like Idaho, UMass, Georgia Southern, etc. Thankfully Idaho came back. UMass should. Georgia Southern seems to be doing ok but maybe it’s just me, they seemed to lose that stature they once had. They were a powerhouse. Now they’re just a so-so G5 team. I don’t get the appeal.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Old Dominion re-started football in 2009 (hadn't fielded a team since the 40s), and was FBS by 2014, meaning they were even faster than Kennesaw. Charlotte was even faster, becoming an FCS Independent in 2013, and joining the CUSA in 2015.

South Alabama took essentially the same path as well. FCS independent for maybe two years then right into the Sun Belt.

In the late 1990's South Florida also had a very quick jump. I-AA for one season, maybe 2, then I-A indy for a couple years and a C-USA member by 2002 or 2003. USF put up an 80-burger in its first ever intercollegiate game.

[ScrappytheOwl]

Frankly, the FCS is in trouble. With the top P5 super conferences expanding taking in other p5/g5 schools there will be a trickle down affect. Eventually, the lower end G5 conferences that were poached will be poaching schools from the FCS causing it to turn into a glorified D2. Any program worth their salt should be looking to go FBS before they fade into irrelevance. There may be 1 or 2 exceptions to that (schools like ndsu in the upper midwest) but it is not out of the realm of possibility theose type school may move up. It seems many people on this thread are bitter because they are envious of the invite that KSU received.

[Sitting Bull]

Frankly, the FCS is in trouble. With the top P5 super conferences expanding taking in other p5/g5 schools there will be a trickle down affect. Eventually, the lower end G5 conferences that were poached will be poaching schools from the FCS causing it to turn into a glorified D2. Any program worth their salt should be looking to go FBS before they fade into irrelevance. There may be 1 or 2 exceptions to that (schools like ndsu in the upper midwest) but it is not out of the realm of possibility theose type school may move up. It seems many people on this thread are bitter because they are envious of the invite that KSU received.

You should go back to the videotape and watch the FCS championship game - or either of the semifinals - vs any G5 bowl game you want to pick. When you do, I think you will see it’s not the FCS that’s in trouble.

With the P5 pulling further away, what exactly is the appeal at G5?

And just to qualify, there’s no reason to be bitter. Like I said, for many of us, KSU hasn’t been around long enough to really care. No offense. When it gets to the point when these G5 leagues are bringing in schools that can’t even crack 8,000 fans on a good day, it signals that they may be the ones in trouble. Particularly when you know most of the blue chippers like NDSU, Montana, etc gave a thumbs down to joining.

[JSUSoutherner]

The rumblings I've heard are that KSU has bought the land between the current *soccer*/"football" stadium and Chastain road. The plan is to build a multi-purpose sports/entertainment venue with bars, shops, and 30k capacity stadium (sort of a mini-Battery, for those familiar). I know this type of development will take years, but looking at what KSU has built over the last 10 years I feel confident this complex will be nice and makes for a great long-term play for the Owls.

The county seems to be onboard and will probably carry much of the financial burden as they see the space as future tax revenues.

I wish we had accomplished something in FCS other than a few milestone achievements based around beating weak teams, but I am very excited to see how this plays out over the next decade.

The more complicated part to me is who do we bring in to start running an offense that will allow us more success than our friends at GT who are still dealing with the transitional pain of not running the option.
Ive heard these rumors before as well. Kennesaw doesn't own everything between the football stadium and Chastain. There are still those apartment and office complexes. They aren't going anywhere. My understanding is that Kennesaw owns everything south of the complexes though. They could in theory, level the current stadium and the track complex and have enough space to build a new football stadium but my understanding is the nearby pond from Noonday Creek is something that the state won't let Kennesaw mess with. Also heard a rumor when they bought the Brandsmart property that it would be leveled and used to build a new stadium but it seems they've decided to use the building for band storage instead.

I don't doubt for a second that given the opportunity, Kennesaw would jump to build a new stadium, but I just don't know where they would put it.

If I was Kennesaw I'd look at relocating the band and demo'ing Brandsmart and putting it on that lot so you could build but still use Fifth Third during the build and keep it for soccer but I'm not in the know about the difficulty of pulling that off. I haven't been there in a couple of years but IIRC that would take a collosal amount of earth work to get the space prepped for something as large as a new stadium since I'm pretty sure it slopes down to the South.

[FUBeAR]

Frankly, the FCS is in trouble. With the top P5 super conferences expanding taking in other p5/g5 schools there will be a trickle down affect. Eventually, the lower end G5 conferences that were poached will be poaching schools from the FCS causing it to turn into a glorified D2. Any program worth their salt should be looking to go FBS before they fade into irrelevance. There may be 1 or 2 exceptions to that (schools like ndsu in the upper midwest) but it is not out of the realm of possibility theose type school may move up. It seems many people on this thread are bitter because they are envious of the invite that KSU received.In order to reach a valid conclusion, your premise must be valid. Your whole theory here is based on the continued existence of “FBS” existing more or less as it does currently. There is definitely no certainty to that premise and FUBeAR would put that likelihood at no greater than 49.9%.

In other words… “Cool story bro.”

[HootyHoo]

The rumblings I've heard are that KSU has bought the land between the current *soccer*/"football" stadium and Chastain road. The plan is to build a multi-purpose sports/entertainment venue with bars, shops, and 30k capacity stadium (sort of a mini-Battery, for those familiar). I know this type of development will take years, but looking at what KSU has built over the last 10 years I feel confident this complex will be nice and makes for a great long-term play for the Owls.

The county seems to be onboard and will probably carry much of the financial burden as they see the space as future tax revenues.

I wish we had accomplished something in FCS other than a few milestone achievements based around beating weak teams, but I am very excited to see how this plays out over the next decade.

The more complicated part to me is who do we bring in to start running an offense that will allow us more success than our friends at GT who are still dealing with the transitional pain of not running the option.


Hooty has heard of these developments as well. People on this board talking about attendance and facilities are missing the boat. KSU is about the future, this Multi-use stadium/complex would supercharge both categories and put KSU in a position to be a G5 power. and Let's not act like the majority of FCS has good attendance. In fact, only 20 schools averaged over 10K a game last year, 8 averaged more than 15K, and only two programs averaged over 20K(Montana and Jackson St). Bottom line, attendance is an issue for FCS Football.

As to the new offense, Hooty is struggling with what to do as well. Bohannon is a Triple Option coach, and the Option is dead. However, Bo has expressed a desire to "evolve" the offense this offseason. Hooty hopes this means bringing in two new coordinators to completely change the offense. Hooty would vote for Buster Faulkner as the new OC, UGA's offensive quality control coach. Whatever happens, Danny Verpaele has to be fired as DC. The defense is an embarrassment.

[ElCid]

Frankly, the FCS is in trouble. With the top P5 super conferences expanding taking in other p5/g5 schools there will be a trickle down affect. Eventually, the lower end G5 conferences that were poached will be poaching schools from the FCS causing it to turn into a glorified D2. Any program worth their salt should be looking to go FBS before they fade into irrelevance. There may be 1 or 2 exceptions to that (schools like ndsu in the upper midwest) but it is not out of the realm of possibility theose type school may move up. It seems many people on this thread are bitter because they are envious of the invite that KSU received.

Wishful thinking. Envious? Hahahaha.

What will happen will happen and every school will adjust as appropriate for themselves and their students.

[JSUSoutherner]

Wishful thinking. Envious? Hahahaha.

What will happen will happen and every school will adjust as appropriate for themselves and their students.
I mean, most fans? Envious? Nah.

Bison fans? Oh yeah. They're super butthurt about nobody calling them. Especially now that JMU cracked the top 25. I actually find it comical.

[taper]

I mean, most fans? Envious? Nah.

Bison fans? Oh yeah. They're super butthurt about nobody calling them. Especially now that JMU cracked the top 25. I actually find it comical.
In our defense, there are a tiny number of super butthurt "fans" that can't help blaming everything and everyone as loud and often as they can. It really is just the same 4-5 people that complain about everything. The vast majority of us understand geography is a big hurdle.

[POD Knows]

In our defense, there are a tiny number of super butthurt "fans" that can't help blaming everything and everyone as loud and often as they can. It really is just the same 4-5 people that complain about everything. The vast majority of us understand geography is a big hurdle.
If the Bison get a move up to some dog**** conference like the CUSA or the MAC then I am probably out as a paying fan. I might still watch the games but playing for and hoping for some stupid bowl game is not my cup of tea. Too many years watching them play for championships. Now, if this move up included some type of a division with a meaningful playoff system that would be great.

[JSUSoutherner]

In our defense, there are a tiny number of super butthurt "fans" that can't help blaming everything and everyone as loud and often as they can. It really is just the same 4-5 people that complain about everything. The vast majority of us understand geography is a big hurdle.
Yeah that's fair.

Truth be told if CUSA would just go balls to the wall and pick up NDSU and fly them everywhere, I'd be game.

East:
1.) MTSU
2.) WKU
3.) Liberty
4.) Jax
5.) Kennesaw
6.) FIU

West:
1.) Sam
2.) NMSU
3.) UTEP
4.) NDSU
5.) SFA
6.) Louisiana Tech
Id love a situation where LTU stays in the east, and the west gets Montana, Montana State, and SDSU, but those three schools bring pretty much nothing to the FBS table.

[Sitting Bull]

In our defense, there are a tiny number of super butthurt "fans" that can't help blaming everything and everyone as loud and often as they can. It really is just the same 4-5 people that complain about everything. The vast majority of us understand geography is a big hurdle.

Bingo. And anyone who watched the thousands of Bison fans pack the championship game in Frisco again last year apparently missed that I don’t think they are tired of competing for National championships.

They are also the last team to beat JMU so what’s to gain.

[Sitting Bull]

Yeah that's fair.

Truth be told if CUSA would just go balls to the wall and pick up NDSU and fly them everywhere, I'd be game.

East:
1.) MTSU
2.) WKU
3.) Liberty
4.) Jax
5.) Kennesaw
6.) FIU

West:
1.) Sam
2.) NMSU
3.) UTEP
4.) NDSU
5.) SFA
6.) Louisiana Tech

This is the kind of set-up that nearly bankrupted Idaho.
Which meaningless bowl game does the winner here get to host?

[JSUSoutherner]

This is the kind of set-up that nearly bankrupted Idaho.
Which meaningless bowl game does the winner here get to host?
One that gets more viewership and makes more money than the FCS playoffs do.

[mvfcfan]

Here's my comment. It's bad enough that the NCAA doesn't enforce the attendance requirement of 15,000 that used to be 20,000. It's an entirely different level of ridiculous when a school with an 8,300 seat stadium is going to be allowed into FBS. If they can't even mandate that you have to have at least a 15,000 seat capacity stadium then they need to just merge D1 all into the same level again.

[Reign of Terrier]

Weird. We've never had a problem getting 20k to come watch us put Murray State in their grave.

And we aren't even in Atlanta.

We've pulled 18.5k for Davidson and 19.5k for Kennesaw this season with only half a stadium due to construction.

Kennesaw has no excuses other than no one cares.

Jacksonville State has been around playing football for decades, and I imagine there's not a lot to do in Jacksonville, Alabama, relative to Atlanta.

Going to games is a tradition that's built over time. Winning games, being emotionally invested, having fun, etc. It's why Georgia Southern, App, and Jacksonville State are different from Kennesaw State and Georgia State. Location + Age + Fun.

[JSUSoutherner]

Here's my comment. It's bad enough that the NCAA doesn't enforce the attendance requirement of 15,000 that used to be 20,000. It's an entirely different level of ridiculous when a school with an 8,300 seat stadium is going to be allowed into FBS. If they can't even mandate that you have to have at least a 15,000 seat capacity stadium then they need to just merge D1 all into the same level again.

I mean Sam Houston got in with the dumpster of a stadium they have and they have no plans that I've heard of to upgrade. So at least Kennesaw is on the docket to get something done.

[Reign of Terrier]

Frankly, the FCS is in trouble. With the top P5 super conferences expanding taking in other p5/g5 schools there will be a trickle down affect. Eventually, the lower end G5 conferences that were poached will be poaching schools from the FCS causing it to turn into a glorified D2. Any program worth their salt should be looking to go FBS before they fade into irrelevance. There may be 1 or 2 exceptions to that (schools like ndsu in the upper midwest) but it is not out of the realm of possibility theose type school may move up. It seems many people on this thread are bitter because they are envious of the invite that KSU received.

FCS has always been glorified D2. What makes it different, traditionally, is there's more scholarships and an elevated level of play.

It's fun to watch over the last few years how people have internalized a handful of programs success (NDSU, JMU, and SDSU - for when they play well against FBS) and think it's generalizable to the total FCS level.

If you want to be "relevant" playing football, or at least make a lot of money for your athletic department/school, you go FBS. Pretending being FCS is just comparable. Ask App State fans when they beat UNC a couple years back, or when they hosted gameday this year, or JMU fans about being ranked in the top 25 if any of their previous success felt the same.

As a fan of a school that will never be able to compete at that level by way of resources, alumni base, etc (but will be a competitive midmajor in basketball), the FCS is the perfect spot, and it is for about 95%+ of the subdivision.


You should go back to the videotape and watch the FCS championship game - or either of the semifinals - vs any G5 bowl game you want to pick. When you do, I think you will see it’s not the FCS that’s in trouble.

With the P5 pulling further away, what exactly is the appeal at G5?

And just to qualify, there’s no reason to be bitter. Like I said, for many of us, KSU hasn’t been around long enough to really care. No offense. When it gets to the point when these G5 leagues are bringing in schools that can’t even crack 8,000 fans on a good day, it signals that they may be the ones in trouble. Particularly when you know most of the blue chippers like NDSU, Montana, etc gave a thumbs down to joining.

I would say the championship game is not representative of the quality of the entire subdivision by definition. Especially when 50% of the teams playing in that game are wearing green and yellow.

Per my above comment, FCS has always been "not about the money" by definition.

[JSUSoutherner]

FCS has always been glorified D2. What makes it different, traditionally, is there's more scholarships and an elevated level of play.

It's fun to watch over the last few years how people have internalized a handful of programs success (NDSU, JMU, and SDSU - for when they play well against FBS) and think it's generalizable to the total FCS level.

If you want to be "relevant" playing football, or at least make a lot of money for your athletic department/school, you go FBS. Pretending being FCS is just comparable. Ask App State fans when they beat UNC a couple years back, or when they hosted gameday this year, or JMU fans about being ranked in the top 25 if any of their previous success felt the same.

As a fan of a school that will never be able to compete at that level by way of resources, alumni base, etc (but will be a competitive midmajor in basketball), the FCS is the perfect spot, and it is for about 95%+ of the subdivision.



I would say the championship game is not representative of the quality of the entire subdivision by definition. Especially when 50% of the teams playing in that game are wearing green and yellow.

Per my above comment, FCS has always been "not about the money" by definition.
This. If the FCS title game has a team that isn't from a Dakota or Montana, it draws literally nobody. Guaranteed.

[Sitting Bull]

This. If the FCS title game has a team that isn't from a Dakota or Montana, it draws literally nobody. Guaranteed.

That sounds like a great stat though it’s totally uncoupled from reality. Seriously, all you have to do is look it up.

I’ll take the comparison any day with any bush league G5 bowl you want to throw out there.

- - - Updated - - -


One that gets more viewership and makes more money than the FCS playoffs do.

LOL

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Let's be fair to KSU, they have few if any real peers at least in terms of institutional profile in the southeast in FCS. They would be more a fit in the MVFC and Big Sky but that would be even worse geography than CUSA. Ideally you want to stay in FCS a while and build up fan support before moving but there's just no telling how many more FBS invitations will be given out. Too early is better than never.

TBH, I think Kennesaw has a higher ceiling than Georgia State does. State has a hideous, soul-sucking urban jungle campus with crappy student housing and large numbers of non-traditional students while KSU has a nice campus. State just not a an overly impressive college environment. They can't even really seem to get G5-level prospects in their own city. That matters IMO more than stadium capacity (and they'll probably find a way to fix that just like Coastal Carolina did). Their budget's already in the lower end range of the G5 IIRC.

[JSUSoutherner]

That sounds like a great stat though it’s totally uncoupled from reality. Seriously, all you have to do is look it up.

I’ll take the comparison any day with any bush league G5 bowl you want to throw out there.

- - - Updated - - -



LOL
You're right, all you need to do is look it up.

2021 Fall

Quarterfinals:
JMU vs. Montana (ESPN2) — 666K
NDSU vs. ETSU (ESPN) — 1.77 million

Semifinals:
NDSU vs. JMU (ESPN2) — 1.15 million
Montana State vs. SDSU (ESPN2) — 795K

Championship:
NDSU vs. Montana State (ESPN2) — 1.32 million


2021 Spring

Quarterfinals:
NDSU vs. SHSU (ESPN) — 328K
UND vs. JMU (ESPN2) — 251K
SDSU vs. SIU (ESPN2) — 219K

Semifinals:
JMU vs. SHSU (ABC) — 706K
Delaware vs. SDSU (ESPN) — 520K

Championship:
SDSU vs. SHSU (ABC) — 905K


2019

Quarterfinals:
NDSU vs. Illinois State (ESPN) — 1.78 million
UNI vs. JMU (ESPN2) — 563K
Montana vs. Weber State (ESPN2) — 438K

Semifinals:
Montana State vs. NDSU (ESPN2) — 518K

Championship:
NDSU vs. JMU (ABC) — 2.68 million

2018

Quarterfinals:
Maine vs. Weber State (ESPN2) — 566K
Colgate vs. NDSU (ESPN) — 1.81 million

Semifinals:
SDSU vs. NDSU (ESPN2) — 846K
Maine vs. EWU (ESPN2) — 448K

Championship:
NDSU vs. EWU (ESPN2) — 1.00 million


2021-22 Bowl Games G5 v G5 May not be all but a good many of the games

Nevada v W Michigan 650,000
GSU v Ball State 860,000
N Texas v Miami Ohio 860,000
Kent St v Wyoming 810,000
UTSA v San Diego St 700,000
ODU v Tulsa 590,000
UAB v BYU 1,859,000
WKU v App 990,000
UTEP v Fresno 930,000
NIU v CCU 800,000
E Michigan v Liberty 690,000
ULL v Marshall 640,000
Middle v Toledo 570,000



Average Viewership of FCS games: 848,625
Viewership of bottom G5 Bowls: 842,231

At this point you might say, "ah ha, told you so! And your numbers are including BYU which is basically a P5 fanbase"

But watch this:

Viewership of G5 Bowls (BYU Excluded): 757,500
Viewership of FCS games NOT involving NDSU: 533,750

Viewership average of FCS playoff games drop nearly 40% when NDSU isn't involved.

And even with NDSU involved the FCS is at best on par with the bottom 10 bowl games considering you take out the one championship game from NDSU vs JMU and the FCS average drops 20% from that game alone.

So yeah.

[ElCid]

Jacksonville State has been around playing football for decades, and I imagine there's not a lot to do in Jacksonville, Alabama, relative to Atlanta.

Going to games is a tradition that's built over time. Winning games, being emotionally invested, having fun, etc. It's why Georgia Southern, App, and Jacksonville State are different from Kennesaw State and Georgia State. Location + Age + Fun.

Some people don't get this. And that's why it has become artificial at a lot of places. They try to force it. Or to buy their way. It has to develop over time in the natural course of events. People are attracted to authenticity.

[unknown-swac]

Frankly, the FCS is in trouble. With the top P5 super conferences expanding taking in other p5/g5 schools there will be a trickle down affect. Eventually, the lower end G5 conferences that were poached will be poaching schools from the FCS causing it to turn into a glorified D2. Any program worth their salt should be looking to go FBS before they fade into irrelevance. There may be 1 or 2 exceptions to that (schools like ndsu in the upper midwest) but it is not out of the realm of possibility theose type school may move up. It seems many people on this thread are bitter because they are envious of the invite that KSU received.

This was pretty apparent once App, GaSo, ODU, etc left. People have tried to convince themselves that a "real" playoff system is better. However, the almighty dollar is quite another thing.

[HootyHoo]

The expansion of the CFB playoff to 12 teams will change a lot for the G5. The 10 FBS conferences will all have access to the National Championship. The Big 10 and the SEC have realized that there is more money keeping this thing together than blowing it up and just making the division a two league invitational. Now it won't be easy to make it in from a G5 conference, but it is possible. Even more so once the system is expanded to 16 teams.

P.S: For the Indiana state guy whining about KSU getting an invite. We have 30K more students than you and double your Budget. We are not the same.

[unknown-swac]

You're right, all you need to do is look it up.

2021 Fall

Quarterfinals:
JMU vs. Montana (ESPN2) — 666K
NDSU vs. ETSU (ESPN) — 1.77 million

Semifinals:
NDSU vs. JMU (ESPN2) — 1.15 million
Montana State vs. SDSU (ESPN2) — 795K

Championship:
NDSU vs. Montana State (ESPN2) — 1.32 million


2021 Spring

Quarterfinals:
NDSU vs. SHSU (ESPN) — 328K
UND vs. JMU (ESPN2) — 251K
SDSU vs. SIU (ESPN2) — 219K

Semifinals:
JMU vs. SHSU (ABC) — 706K
Delaware vs. SDSU (ESPN) — 520K

Championship:
SDSU vs. SHSU (ABC) — 905K


2019

Quarterfinals:
NDSU vs. Illinois State (ESPN) — 1.78 million
UNI vs. JMU (ESPN2) — 563K
Montana vs. Weber State (ESPN2) — 438K

Semifinals:
Montana State vs. NDSU (ESPN2) — 518K

Championship:
NDSU vs. JMU (ABC) — 2.68 million

2018

Quarterfinals:
Maine vs. Weber State (ESPN2) — 566K
Colgate vs. NDSU (ESPN) — 1.81 million

Semifinals:
SDSU vs. NDSU (ESPN2) — 846K
Maine vs. EWU (ESPN2) — 448K

Championship:
NDSU vs. EWU (ESPN2) — 1.00 million


2021-22 Bowl Games G5 v G5 May not be all but a good many of the games

Nevada v W Michigan 650,000
GSU v Ball State 860,000
N Texas v Miami Ohio 860,000
Kent St v Wyoming 810,000
UTSA v San Diego St 700,000
ODU v Tulsa 590,000
UAB v BYU 1,859,000
WKU v App 990,000
UTEP v Fresno 930,000
NIU v CCU 800,000
E Michigan v Liberty 690,000
ULL v Marshall 640,000
Middle v Toledo 570,000



Average Viewership of FCS games: 848,625
Viewership of bottom G5 Bowls: 842,231

At this point you might say, "ah ha, told you so! And your numbers are including BYU which is basically a P5 fanbase"

But watch this:

Viewership of G5 Bowls (BYU Excluded): 757,500
Viewership of FCS games NOT involving NDSU: 533,750

Viewership average of FCS playoff games drop nearly 40% when NDSU isn't involved.

And even with NDSU involved the FCS is at best on par with the bottom 10 bowl games considering you take out the one championship game from NDSU vs JMU and the FCS average drops 20% from that game alone.

So yeah.

Can't really argue with this.

[FUBeAR]

The Big 10 and the SEC have realized that there is more money keeping this thing together than blowing it up and just making the division a two league invitational.Source?

[unknown-swac]

The expansion of the CFB playoff to 12 teams will change a lot for the G5. The 10 FBS conferences will all have access to the National Championship. The Big 10 and the SEC have realized that there is more money keeping this thing together than blowing it up and just making the division a two league invitational. Now it won't be easy to make it in from a G5 conference, but it is possible. Even more so once the system is expanded to 16 teams.

P.S: For the Indiana state guy whining about KSU getting an invite. We have 30K more students than you and double your Budget. We are not the same.

Precisely. Teams like JMU and App will now have just as much a chance as anyone considering Cincinnati, UCF, BYU and Houston are headed to the P5. One could argue some schools positioned themselves in a "lesser" fbs bowl game over FCS for this specific reason. There will definitely be a year that someone gets a cinderella run. They did everything they could to keep teams like Boise State from doing it in their heyday.

[unknown-swac]

Source?
I mean, do you really need one? They are the 2 leagues driving the bus pretty obviously when you look at the major bowl game tie ins. If they weren't with it you wouldn't have even heard a headline about this.

[taper]

The expansion of the CFB playoff to 12 teams will change a lot for the G5. The 10 FBS conferences will all have access to the National Championship. The Big 10 and the SEC have realized that there is more money keeping this thing together than blowing it up and just making the division a two league invitational. Now it won't be easy to make it in from a G5 conference, but it is possible. Even more so once the system is expanded to 16 teams.

P.S: For the Indiana state guy whining about KSU getting an invite. We have 30K more students than you and double your Budget. We are not the same.
The 12 team CFP has just as much access for the G5 as a 1 bid league such as my Summit has at a #1 seed in March Madness. In reality it'll be 11 Power teams and 1 G5 thrown as a bone to head off anti-trust lawsuits. The new CUSA will find it almost impossible to get that spot due to conference SOS. Congrats on the invite, but be realistic about what it means. CUSA conference champ is nothing to sneeze at and KSU could get there.

[Catamount87]

and people wondered why the SoCon did not extend an invitation to the Owls..... not looking for a program that only want to be in the conference a few years like Elon did.

I had two different ADs from different SoCon schools tell me that the SoCon didn't extend a bid to KSU way back when because it was made clear FCS was just a stepping stone to FBS for KSU just like it was for UNC-C.

[JSUSoutherner]

The 12 team CFP has just as much access for the G5 as a 1 bid league such as my Summit has at a #1 seed in March Madness. In reality it'll be 11 Power teams and 1 G5 thrown as a bone to head off anti-trust lawsuits. The new CUSA will find it almost impossible to get that spot due to conference SOS. Congrats on the invite, but be realistic about what it means. CUSA conference champ is nothing to sneeze at and KSU could get there.
Conference champ is a nice thing to play for but CUSA still has some pretty decent bowl game affiliations for the next several years. We have the Armed Forces Bowl and the Birmingham Bowl vs the SEC that should get a good amount of eyes.

And even outside of bowl season one of the big things for us is we go from receiving $425k for beating Florida State, to receiving $1.8 million for beating Florida State. Stack 2 of those P5 games every couple years into the schedule and that's a boatload o' cash.

Will be interesting to see what the new media deal looks like too.

[HootyHoo]

Source?

I believe CBSSports had the article. The 12 Team CFB Playoff is estimated to have an annual payday of $1.6 Billion. This is why the University Presidents got involved to push through the new format. And yes, $1.6 Billion/year is bigger than anything the SEC/Big10 could demand by themselves.

[JSUSoutherner]

And yes, $1.6 Billion/year is bigger than anything the SEC/Big10 could demand by themselves.
No it's not.

[HootyHoo]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-playoff-expansion-issues-including-scheduling-models-revenue-distribution-being-debated/#:~:text=As%20of%20now%2C%20the%20expanded,industr y%20sources%20tell%20CBS%20Sports.

[Reign of Terrier]

This was pretty apparent once App, GaSo, ODU, etc left. People have tried to convince themselves that a "real" playoff system is better. However, the almighty dollar is quite another thing.

Maybe I'm just jaded because my team has gotten farther away from winning a national title than it was 15 years or so, but I'm one of the few people that things even the FCS playoffs are broken.

Even if it didn't involve NDSU winning every year, the field is just too damn big, the sudden weather changes in late November/early December creates a lot of underrated chaos, and regionalization makes the whole thing kind of a farce. Regardless of what you think the merits are of the Big Sky/MVFC getting better playoff seeding than the rest of the FCS, from a fan's perspective, it's worse than it used to be. Basically, if you're a fan outside of those conferences, you can bank on either playing a game thanksgiving weekend (which is typically horrible because of short notice and the holiday kills attendance), or if you have a really good season, you'll get one home game after the holiday and if you win that, you'll be shipped across the country in a manner likely not feasible to travel for most. Usually it's against NDSU or a top 4 team. I know NDSU and the big sky are the elite of the conference, but I can't get excited to play EWU or whatever anymore.

I may be one of the few FCS fans who actually hates the playoffs, because most good teams go out on a bad note, but before they do, they get strung along like the above. For years, folks on this site (not so much any more) talked about how great it was to crown a real champion or whatever, but I would rather have a conference championship game or a regional bowl game between conference champions or top conference players.

Socon folks catch a little grief for feeling high on ourselves. I get it. But I'll be honest, I'm not sure one day a single FCS championship is worth the indefinite environment I just describe. It's not fun. My friends who root for middling FBS teams seem to have way more fun, because they don't have an all or nothing mindset with regard to national championships, and it seems to be tailored to the fan experience. The FCS isn't really for that either.

[JSUSoutherner]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-playoff-expansion-issues-including-scheduling-models-revenue-distribution-being-debated/#:~:text=As%20of%20now%2C%20the%20expanded,industr y%20sources%20tell%20CBS%20Sports.
The B10 and the SEC could easily command that.

The B10 already is worth $1.2B on its own.

The SEC is already worth close to a billion, but expect that number to shoot way up soon when the deals come up for renewal.

https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_e55cd5ea-21a1-11ed-a665-9b6617850158.html

[HootyHoo]

The B10 and the SEC could easily command that.

The B10 already is worth $1.2B on its own.

The SEC is already worth close to a billion, but expect that number to shoot way up soon when the deals come up for renewal.

https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_e55cd5ea-21a1-11ed-a665-9b6617850158.html

Remember this is just the playoff games, not the Conference's TV deals. The 1.6 Billion would be on top of the money the conferences receive from their media rights deals. You also have to consider the logistical nightmare of creating an entirely new postseason system for two bloated conferences with 24-30 members each instead of just letting the CFB Playoff run things, negotiate the media rights, and take the blame when/if things go wrong.

[taper]

Maybe I'm just jaded because my team has gotten farther away from winning a national title than it was 15 years or so, but I'm one of the few people that things even the FCS playoffs are broken.

Even if it didn't involve NDSU winning every year, the field is just too damn big, the sudden weather changes in late November/early December creates a lot of underrated chaos, and regionalization makes the whole thing kind of a farce. Regardless of what you think the merits are of the Big Sky/MVFC getting better playoff seeding than the rest of the FCS, from a fan's perspective, it's worse than it used to be. Basically, if you're a fan outside of those conferences, you can bank on either playing a game thanksgiving weekend (which is typically horrible because of short notice and the holiday kills attendance), or if you have a really good season, you'll get one home game after the holiday and if you win that, you'll be shipped across the country in a manner likely not feasible to travel for most. Usually it's against NDSU or a top 4 team. I know NDSU and the big sky are the elite of the conference, but I can't get excited to play EWU or whatever anymore.

I may be one of the few FCS fans who actually hates the playoffs, because most good teams go out on a bad note, but before they do, they get strung along like the above. For years, folks on this site (not so much any more) talked about how great it was to crown a real champion or whatever, but I would rather have a conference championship game or a regional bowl game between conference champions or top conference players.

Socon folks catch a little grief for feeling high on ourselves. I get it. But I'll be honest, I'm not sure one day a single FCS championship is worth the indefinite environment I just describe. It's not fun. My friends who root for middling FBS teams seem to have way more fun, because they don't have an all or nothing mindset with regard to national championships, and it seems to be tailored to the fan experience. The FCS isn't really for that either.
There's a lot to agree with here. The Dayton rule is one of the worst things to ever happen to FCS. Playoffs would be vastly improved by dropping the non-full scholarship(or redshirt) PFL, NEC, PL autobids, and going to 16 teams seeded without regard to geography. Get rid of the logistical nightmare of Thanksgiving weekend games and teams with no business in the playoffs. Note that at large is still open and someone like this year's Holy Cross would easily be in as long as they win out. Anything that promotes SOS is good in my book.

[JSUSoutherner]

Remember this is just the playoff games, not the Conference's TV deals. The 1.6 Billion would be on top of the money the conferences receive from their media rights deals. You also have to consider the logistical nightmare of creating an entirely new postseason system for two bloated conferences with 24-30 members each instead of just letting the CFB Playoff run things, negotiate the media rights, and take the blame when/if things go wrong.
There have been 32 selections so far to the CFP in it's history. 20 of them are by teams that are in the SEC/B1G or will be by 2025. And half of the remaining 12 are Clemson.

The CFP doesn't need anyone other than the B1G and the SEC.

[HootyHoo]

There have been 32 selections so far to the CFP in it's history. 20 of them are by teams that are in the SEC/B1G or will be by 2025. And half of the remaining 12 are Clemson.

The CFP doesn't need anyone other than the B1G and the SEC.

That's exactly the point of the expanded playoff. The 2021 CFB playoff semifinals dropped by 2 million viewers from 2020. The country does not care when 3 maybe 4 teams have a shot at the title. However, when you give people hope in more places than just Tuscaloosa, Athens, and Columbus you are going to get a better, more entertaining product that everybody can enjoy.

[Sitting Bull]

Somebody needs to clue in UMass and Idaho on what a financial windfall it is to “move-up” to G5.

[JSUSoutherner]

Somebody needs to clue in UMass and Idaho on what a financial windfall it is to “move-up” to G5.
Have they tried not being Grade-A dumpster fires?

[Sitting Bull]

I had two different ADs from different SoCon schools tell me that the SoCon didn't extend a bid to KSU way back when because it was made clear FCS was just a stepping stone to FBS for KSU just like it was for UNC-C.

Is that the same UNC-C that W&M clobbered in game one in front of an impressive (and near capacity) FCS level crowd of about 13,000? Are we sure they moved up?

[atthewbon]

That's exactly the point of the expanded playoff. The 2021 CFB playoff semifinals dropped by 2 million viewers from 2020. The country does not care when 3 maybe 4 teams have a shot at the title. However, when you give people hope in more places than just Tuscaloosa, Athens, and Columbus you are going to get a better, more entertaining product that everybody can enjoy.

Two new teams made it last year including a group of five team...

I'm glad it looks like a 12 team playoff is happening and that there will be an auto-bid for the Group of 5. I also think there is still a very real possibility the SEC, Big Ten, and maybe one other conference eventually break apart and do their own thing. I think it might be many years down the road but there is just too much money to be made.

[Sitting Bull]

Two new teams made it last year including a group of five team...

I'm glad it looks like a 12 team playoff is happening and that there will be an auto-bid for the Group of 5. I also think there is still a very real possibility the SEC, Big Ten, and maybe one other conference eventually break apart and do their own thing. I think it might be many years down the road but there is just too much money to be made.

Anyone who jumps into G5 football thinking they are going to make money is fooling themselves.

And I’m not sure the AAC (Cincinnati) is really G5. Most of the schools in the AAC have longer standing tradition and would do their best not to be labeled as such. It’s why Navy runs on the field with a P6 flag.

[HootyHoo]

Anyone who jumps into G5 football thinking they are going to make money is fooling themselves.

And I’m not sure the AAC (Cincinnati) is really G5. Most of the schools in the AAC have longer standing tradition and would do their best not to be labeled as such. It’s why Navy runs on the field with a P6 flag.

The AAC has already been looted by the Big 12. They are not even the Top G5 conference anymore. That would be the Sun Belt. But i get it, you are salty because KSU actually has hope while you are stuck competing for a flight to Fargo in December.

[JSUSoutherner]

The AAC has already been looted by the Big 12. They are not even the Top G5 conference anymore. That would be the Sun Belt. But i get it, you are salty because KSU actually has hope while you are stuck competing for a flight to Fargo in December.
The Owls can have all the Hope.

We'll take all the Wins.

[HootyHoo]

The Owls can have all the Hope.

We'll take all the Wins.

That was your first win ever against the Owls. Congrats. But you do realize your plan to run from us has now failed? The next time we play, you will not have 20 extra players.

[Sitting Bull]

The AAC has already been looted by the Big 12. They are not even the Top G5 conference anymore. That would be the Sun Belt. But i get it, you are salty because KSU actually has hope while you are stuck competing for a flight to Fargo in December.

It’s just different interest and priorities I guess. I like playing schools we have mutual interest, history etc. Most are schools within a 5 hour drive. We have great rivalries. We play on Saturday. We don’t have to worry about playing on a Tuesday night just so ESPN can televise a game with no fans. There is also always the chance we might get into a run for a national championship, and if it means going to Fargo, that’s fine - vs playing in some meaningless pre-holiday bowl game made up by ESPN to pad their tv schedule against some other G5 team no one knows or cares about. We also get to still play UVA of Virginia Tech on occasion, old rivals that are real FBS teams. And it doesn’t foul up our other sports where suddenly our basketball team has to play teams in different time zones that no one knows or cares about.

There’s no envy here at all. I like FCS for the schools and tradition in it and most of the schools - as someone pointed out - aren’t in it for the money.

And why would you complain about playing in Fargo when every G5 wishlist tries to drag NDSU into this G5 cesspool?

Anyway, good luck with it.

[Catamount87]

Is that the same UNC-C that W&M clobbered in game one in front of an impressive (and near capacity) FCS level crowd of about 13,000? Are we sure they moved up?

Yes they did and are now proud members of C-USA where they are currently 0-2 and 1-5 overall. Yep, they building a powerhouse football program down in Charlotte. xsmiley_wix

[JSUSoutherner]

That was your first win ever against the Owls. Congrats. But you do realize your plan to run from us has now failed? The next time we play, you will not have 20 extra players.
Your programs greatest achievement ever was beating John Grass. Congrats.

Imagine getting 5 takeaways and still losing the game.

I look forward to our yearly meetings. You guys can be our new Chattanooga. Y'all peaked in 2018.

[ElCid]

The expansion of the CFB playoff to 12 teams will change a lot for the G5. The 10 FBS conferences will all have access to the National Championship. The Big 10 and the SEC have realized that there is more money keeping this thing together than blowing it up and just making the division a two league invitational. Now it won't be easy to make it in from a G5 conference, but it is possible. Even more so once the system is expanded to 16 teams.

P.S: For the Indiana state guy whining about KSU getting an invite. We have 30K more students than you and double your Budget. We are not the same.

News flash. Commuter day students, night students, grad students and internet student don't enter the equation of positive football support except in very limited and unique instances. How many resident undergrads students ya got. That would be more of a gage.

[FUBeAR]

It’s just different interest and priorities I guess. I like playing schools we have mutual interest, history etc. Most are schools within a 5 hour drive. We have great rivalries. We play on Saturday. We don’t have to worry about playing on a Tuesday night just so ESPN can televise a game with no fans. There is also always the chance we might get into a run for a national championship, and if it means going to Fargo, that’s fine - vs playing in some meaningless pre-holiday bowl game made up by ESPN to pad their tv schedule against some other G5 team no one knows or cares about. We also get to still play UVA of Virginia Tech on occasion, old rivals that are real FBS teams. And it doesn’t foul up our other sports where suddenly our basketball team has to play teams in different time zones that no one knows or cares about.

There’s no envy here at all. I like FCS for the schools and tradition in it and most of the schools - as someone pointed out - aren’t in it for the money.

And why would you complain about playing in Fargo when every G5 wishlist tries to drag NDSU into this G5 cesspool?

Anyway, good luck with it.
https://media.tenor.com/images/ba7272e3d3f0519d2b323949b231fb7d/tenor.gif

[FUBeAR]

Your programs greatest achievement ever was beating John Grass. Congrats.

Imagine getting 5 takeaways and still losing the game.

I look forward to our yearly meetings. You guys can be our new Chattanooga. Y'all peaked in 2018.Do we have a Pre-Gee 5 Forum on AGS?

Looks like we need one, maybe.

[ElCid]

There’s no envy here at all. I like FCS for the schools and tradition in it and most of the schools - as someone pointed out - aren’t in it for the money.



And we have a WINNER!

Too many people equate money and success. While the two are obviously not exclusive from each other, they do not necessarily equate to each other. But this is the push by those with agendas or talking points trying to justify actions taken or desired, especially when it comes to college athletics.

[JSUSoutherner]

And we have a WINNER!

Too many people equate money and success.

Right, the Citadel is a perfect example that money doesn't equal success. Considering they have the highest (publicly available) posted football budget in the SoCon.

[ElCid]

Right, the Citadel is a perfect example that money doesn't equal success. Considering they have the highest (publicly available) posted football budget in the SoCon.

Well that is a silly attempt at pretzel logic. Especially considering we have four privates in the SOCON. And I am astonished that we do considering ETSU and Chattanooga's recent emphasis.

But in any event, you obviously missed the point entirely. But that is not surprising.

[HootyHoo]

What are these so called common interests? Long walks on the beach and candle lit dinners? There is only one interest in Football: Winning. Winning at the highest level of competition. If you do not value winning, that's fine. but you should just admit you have no ambition. You are small little privates who will never amount to much but have "great rivalries" where 4-5 William & Mary plays 3-7 Richmond, then everybody gathers around the dumpster fire after the game to tell stories of the good ole days when money didn't matter and we all played for the love of the game. Spare me the Bull. This game is about Winning. How do you win? You have the most money. It's why Montana started an NIL collective as soon as they possibly could. To pay for better talent. To win more games. Period.

[JSUSoutherner]

How do you win?
Kennesaw is gonna be asking that a lot more in the future.

[ElCid]

This game is about Winning. How do you win? You have the most money.

I love when people like you move on. You don't get it and probably never will.

[FUBeAR]

What are these so called common interests? Long walks on the beach and candle lit dinners? There is only one interest in Football: Winning. Winning at the highest level of competition. If you do not value winning, that's fine. but you should just admit you have no ambition. You are small little privates who will never amount to much but have "great rivalries" where 4-5 William & Mary plays 3-7 Richmond, then everybody gathers around the dumpster fire after the game to tell stories of the good ole days when money didn't matter and we all played for the love of the game. Spare me the Bull. This game is about Winning. How do you win? You have the most money. It's why Montana started an NIL collective as soon as they possibly could. To pay for better talent. To win more games. Period.
Do you often notice that people are frequently looking around for a wet-nap after they are introduced to you?

[MUMD]

This is the kind of set-up that nearly bankrupted Idaho.
Which meaningless bowl game does the winner here get to host?

I totally agree. Fargo is 1400 miles from El Paso. It's one thing to fly the teams back and forth for a football game on a Saturday, but totally different for a Tuesday volleyball or soccer game. And for what?

[HootyHoo]

You all know Hooty speaks the truth. Look at the list of top Athletic Budgets and then the all-time wins list. The top 6 winningest programs are Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame. Now let's see where those schools place in budget: 4th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th. Notre Dame wasn't listed on the Sportico website but they make 165 million in revenue.

[MUMD]

And we have a WINNER!

Too many people equate money and success. While the two are obviously not exclusive from each other, they do not necessarily equate to each other. But this is the push by those with agendas or talking points trying to justify actions taken or desired, especially when it comes to college athletics.

My school (Mercer) is one of the newest to FCS and the SoCon. We already had rivalries with ETSU and Samford since we were in the ASUN together back in the day. And I've thoroughly enjoyed developing new rivalries with the other teams. Basketball has played a big role in that, and we are finally having pretty good success on the football field, although we have never been really bad. I am sure my school is in the right conference in the right division of college sports. Our school has raised its profile significantly over the past 8 years, as well as enrollment and admissions standards. So call me an FCS lifer. I doubt seriously Mercer could/would ever be in a position to "move up" (tongue in cheek) and likely never will even think about it. FCS is right for us. And low level FBS is probably right for Kennesaw and their 40,000 students.

[HootyHoo]

My school (Mercer) is one of the newest to FCS and the SoCon. We already had rivalries with ETSU and Samford since we were in the ASUN together back in the day. And I've thoroughly enjoyed developing new rivalries with the other teams. Basketball has played a big role in that, and we are finally having pretty good success on the football field, although we have never been really bad. I am sure my school is in the right conference in the right division of college sports. Our school has raised its profile significantly over the past 8 years, as well as enrollment and admissions standards. So call me an FCS lifer. I doubt seriously Mercer could/would ever be in a position to "move up" (tongue in cheek) and likely never will even think about it. FCS is right for us. And low level FBS is probably right for Kennesaw and their 40,000 students.

Low level FBS huh? Mercer fans always have these glib, pithy remarks but never mention that the Bears have ducked playing KSU on several occasions. The reason why you are an "FCS lifer" is you cannot afford to run a big time athletic operation.

[MUMD]

Low level FBS huh? Mercer fans always have these glib, pithy remarks but never mention that the Bears have ducked playing KSU on several occasions. The reason why you are an "FCS lifer" is you cannot afford to run a big time athletic operation.

Not sure why we haven't played in football. But our basketball and baseball teams much more often than not wipe the floor with your @$$es on our private school budget (yes even your "elite" baseball team HAHAHAHA, your best quote yet IMO), even in down years. You can thank big time tax payers like me for your big time athletic budget. Like ElCid said, you just don't get it and you never will.

Per KSUOWLS.com basketball is 18-5 Mercer all time and baseball is 24-13.
https://ksuowls.com/sports/baseball/opponent-history/mercer-university/5
https://ksuowls.com/sports/mens-basketball/opponent-history/mercer-university/5

[HootyHoo]

Not sure why we haven't played in football. But our basketball and baseball teams much more often than not wipe the floor with your @$$es on our private school budget (yes even your "elite" baseball team HAHAHAHA, your best quote yet IMO), even in down years. You can thank big time tax payers like me for your big time athletic budget. Like ElCid said, you just don't get it and you never will.

Per KSUOWLS.com basketball is 18-5 Mercer all time and baseball is 24-13.
https://ksuowls.com/sports/baseball/opponent-history/mercer-university/5
https://ksuowls.com/sports/mens-basketball/opponent-history/mercer-university/5

You know exactly why you haven't played us. Because you have declined at least three times. We even offered to play you in Macon and still no dice. Classic Mercer, you can't even come out and talk trash right away. You have to hide behind backhand compliments because you know in the only game that matters in the south. We would woop your @$$.

[MUMD]

YWe would woop your @$$.

You may be the only person on AGS that actually thinks that, at least this year. Have fun in C-USA bruh. PS our lil old private school had over 10,000 butts in seats last Saturday. I was there and it was AWESOME.

[JSUSoutherner]

But our basketball and baseball teams much more often than not wipe the floor with your @$$es on our private school budget (yes even your "elite" baseball team HAHAHAHA, your best quote yet IMO)
Same.

I was going to let him have the baseball thing since we've had a few down years. But even with our recent struggles we still have a winning record against Kennesaw since like 2014.

Basketball... Well they try their best. :D

[HootyHoo]

How many Super Regionals have y’all been to?

[JSUSoutherner]

How many Super Regionals have y’all been to?
How many March Madness brackets you guys been in?

[HootyHoo]

How many March Madness brackets you guys been in?

not an equivalent comparison for Jacksonville state. Winning a regional is like going to the sweet 16. JSU has never done that. Now Mercer beat Duke, so Hooty can’t say anything about that. That’s legit. But JSU has never sniffed success at the highest level.

[katss07]

To me, this is why KSU to CUSA is puzzling. Like, yes, I think their team/program is better than people think it is, but it's basically due to great coaching and great recruiting (I think Murphy, their QB is from Los Angeles, for instance).

A lot of the stuff you need to be successful is passable to good (but not great) by FCS standards: home attendance and facilities. Those can be upgraded, sure, but it is a little bit of a head scratcher.

I will say, with those caveats already mentioned, remember that people said the same thing about Coastal Carolina (and Georgia State, who is at least better than they were when FCS)when they moved up. I think CUSA is trying to replicate the Sun Belt strategy of recruiting good FCS football programs, with the long term in mind. "Build it and they will come" sort of thing.

I don't know much about SHSU compared to KSU and on the top of my head, I can't remember who else CUSA invited (Liberty?), but KSU has potential. I don't think this would be a bad move long term, but definitely one people will question until KSU makes big moves at FBS like Coastal and App.
They’re certainly trying to replicate the Sun Belt’s strategy. But I think they’ve made terrible, flat out awful decisions on two of the additions (SHSU & KSU). They went for “markets” again over established fanbases. CUSA is destined to fail again. I don’t care what media partner told them to add KSU, it’s as bad an invite as Sam Houston. It’s nothing like the Sun Belt adding App State and GaSouthern, or even Texas State.

Coastal caught lightning in a bottle a few years ago. Good for them. They still only average about 5k more than they did in the FCS. I don’t see Coastal on TV too often. Sam or KSU turning into a Coastal type would be nice for CUSA, but not much of a boost for this pathetic, sad league.

[JSUSoutherner]

not an equivalent comparison for Jacksonville state. Winning a regional is like going to the sweet 16. JSU has never done that. Now Mercer beat Duke, so Hooty can’t say anything about that. That’s legit. But JSU has never sniffed success at the highest level.
You're right, it's not an equivalent.

Nobody knows or cares that you went to a super regional.

But 80 million people filled out brackets with Jacksonville State on them.

[HootyHoo]

They’re certainly trying to replicate the Sun Belt’s strategy. But I think they’ve made terrible, flat out awful decisions on two of the additions (SHSU & KSU). They went for “markets” again over established fanbases. CUSA is destined to fail again. I don’t care what media partner told them to add KSU, it’s as bad an invite as Sam Houston. It’s nothing like the Sun Belt adding App State and GaSouthern, or even Texas State.

Coastal caught lightning in a bottle a few years ago. Good for them. They still only average about 5k more than they did in the FCS. I don’t see Coastal on TV too often. Sam or KSU turning into a Coastal type would be nice for CUSA, but not much of a boost for this pathetic, sad league.

I understand where you are coming from. I think SHSU was added because they won a Natty recently and said Yes. CUSA was desperate when it added the four new teams. Now they can go about things more deliberately. The Atlanta market was a good add right before the conference starts the negotiations for the new media rights deal. Boosting the TV profile is the only reason KSU got invited.

I'm hopeful that the next phase of expansion will follow your suggestion of going for a more sun belt strategy by adding programs with strong fanbases. Missouri State, Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, and Tarleton State all fit this description. They are all top 50 in FCS attendance and will be long term members of the conference creating more stability.

Don't worry Katss, you can ride Hooty's coattails to greatness.

[JSUSoutherner]

They’re certainly trying to replicate the Sun Belt’s strategy. But I think they’ve made terrible, flat out awful decisions on two of the additions (SHSU & KSU). They went for “markets” again over established fanbases. CUSA is destined to fail again. I don’t care what media partner told them to add KSU, it’s as bad an invite as Sam Houston. It’s nothing like the Sun Belt adding App State and GaSouthern, or even Texas State.

Coastal caught lightning in a bottle a few years ago. Good for them. They still only average about 5k more than they did in the FCS. I don’t see Coastal on TV too often. Sam or KSU turning into a Coastal type would be nice for CUSA, but not much of a boost for this pathetic, sad league.
This might be the nicest thing you've ever said about us.

[katss07]

I understand where you are coming from. I think SHSU was added because they won a Natty recently and said Yes. CUSA was desperate when it added the four new teams. Now they can go about things more deliberately. The Atlanta market was a good add right before the conference starts the negotiations for the new media rights deal. Boosting the TV profile is the only reason KSU got invited.

I'm hopeful that the next phase of expansion will follow your suggestion of going for a more sun belt strategy by adding programs with strong fanbases. Missouri State, Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, and Tarleton State all fit this description. They are all top 50 in FCS attendance and will be long term members of the conference creating more stability.

Don't worry Katss, you can ride Hooty's coattails to greatness.
If CUSA hasn’t yet started negotiations and just invited Kennesaw State… man, this looks even worse. I think your Owls peaked as a program when Soft Houston sent them packing in the quarterfinals.

I get the rationale and potential of KSU. Maybe you’re another UCF or Memphis… or you’re another UNCC or FIU. Hope the fans show up to the new stadium. And it makes more sense than SHSU. But there were better options. Maybe they’re still coming. I hope Missouri State and Tarleton/UCA are otw because this conference is lame as is.

[HootyHoo]

If CUSA hasn’t yet started negotiations and just invited Kennesaw State… man, this looks even worse. I think your Owls peaked as a program when Soft Houston sent them packing in the quarterfinals.

I get the rationale and potential of KSU. Maybe you’re another UCF or Memphis… or you’re another UNCC or FIU. Hope the fans show up to the new stadium. And it makes more sense than SHSU. But there were better options. Maybe they’re still coming. I hope Missouri State and Tarleton/UCA are otw because this conference is lame as is.

If KSU is another UCF, you have all struck gold and will thank your lucky stars that you are associated with such distinguished company. C-USA is definitely not done expanding. Its strength in numbers right now in the FBS, and all four schools are quality adds. I wouldn't worry too much about how lame the conference is right now, look at what people were saying about the Sun Belt 10 years ago. Heck, C-USA was a superior league that took MTSU and WKU just because they could. TCU and Louisville used to be in CUSA. We can build the league back up.

If the scenario above played out, the league would have Bobby Petrino, Rich Rodriguez, and Hugh Freeze. That's not a bad start.

[JSUSoutherner]

If KSU is another UCF, you have all struck gold and will thank your lucky stars that you are associated with such distinguished company. C-USA is definitely not done expanding. Its strength in numbers right now in the FBS, and all four schools are quality adds. I wouldn't worry too much about how lame the conference is right now, look at what people were saying about the Sun Belt 10 years ago. Heck, C-USA was a superior league that took MTSU and WKU just because they could. TCU and Louisville used to be in CUSA. We can build the league back up.

If the scenario above played out, the league would have Bobby Petrino, Rich Rodriguez, and Hugh Freeze. That's not a bad start.
Y'all could hire Matt Rhule.

[HootyHoo]

Y'all could hire Matt Rhule.

Now that's not such a bad idea.

[Catbooster]

You're right, it's not an equivalent.

Nobody knows or cares that you went to a super regional.

But 80 million people filled out brackets with Jacksonville State on them.
What's a super regional?

[FUBeAR]

You know exactly why you haven't played us. Because you have declined at least three times. We even offered to play you in Macon and still no dice. Classic Mercer, you can't even come out and talk trash right away. You have to hide behind backhand compliments because you know in the only game that matters in the south. We would woop your @$$.
Mr. Massey says you don’t know your tail feathers from a hole in the ground…





https://masseyratings.com/img/col_mercer.gif
https://masseyratings.com/img/col_kennesaw.gif


Neutral Site
Mercer (https://masseyratings.com/384031/4649)
Kennesaw (https://masseyratings.com/384031/3766)


Most Likely
31
20


Median
34
21


Mean
34.59
22.41


Win Probability
75%
25%



…but we all already knew that.

[FUBeAR]

If KSU is another UCF, you have all struck gold and will thank your lucky stars that you are associated with such distinguished company. C-USA is definitely not done expanding. Its strength in numbers right now in the FBS, and all four schools are quality adds. I wouldn't worry too much about how lame the conference is right now, look at what people were saying about the Sun Belt 10 years ago. Heck, C-USA was a superior league that took MTSU and WKU just because they could. TCU and Louisville used to be in CUSA. We can build the league back up.

If the scenario above played out, the league would have Bobby Petrino, Rich Rodriguez, and Hugh Freeze. That's not a bad start.
LOL - that’s a helluva start of a 3-part documentary on lack of morals & ethics among College Football Coaches.

[JSUSoutherner]

What's a super regional?
Exactly.

[ElCid]

How many Super Regionals have y’all been to?

How many World Series you been to? Not a big deal over time. Baseball has waned in popularity though. But go ahead with your dick measuring contest.

[JSUSoutherner]

How many World Series you been to? Not a big deal over time. Baseball has waned in popularity though. But go ahead with your dick measuring contest.
Oh trust me, there's no contest. xdrunkyx

There's list of reasons our mascot is named Cocky, and his being a Gamecock isn't even in the top 3. :D

[katss07]

Wow, some news from the usually reliable Matt Brown this morning on the CUSA expansion front. Per Brown of Extra Points, “Austin Peay, Central Arkansas and North Alabama” are top candidates for CUSA expansion.

EKU being kept out of the league by WKU.

Edit: I’ll link the article, it is however behind a paywall.

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/conference-realignment-cusa-kennesaw-state-owls-rumors/

[JSUSoutherner]

Wow, some news from the usually reliable Matt Brown this morning on the CUSA expansion front. Per Brown of Extra Points, “Austin Peay, Central Arkansas and North Alabama” are top candidates for CUSA expansion.

EKU being kept out of the league by WKU.

Edit: I’ll link the article, it is however behind a paywall.

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/conference-realignment-cusa-kennesaw-state-owls-rumors/

No. No. And **** no.

Give me Missouri State or give me death.

*​Would also take SFA bc shooty hoops

[katss07]

I can accept UCA. But APSU and UNA are the best you can get? Really??

[JSUSoutherner]

I can accept UCA. But APSU and UNA are the best you can get? Really??
I'd rather just not expand.

[FUBeAR]

I'd rather just not expand.
LOL - “Now that I’ve ruined the neighborhood, I don’t want you other people exactly like me moving here and making it even worse!”

[JSUSoutherner]

LOL - “Now that I’ve ruined the neighborhood, I don’t want you other people exactly like me moving here and making it even worse!”

**** schools with tracks around their field.

[FUBeAR]

**** schools with tracks around their field.
Yeah…those are equivalent to the old, rusty washing machine sitting in the front yard.

[katss07]

No. No. And **** no.

Give me Missouri State or give me death.

*​Would also take SFA bc shooty hoops
Neither of those schools want to join CUSA. They’re smart.

[clenz]

Frankly, the FCS is in trouble. With the top P5 super conferences expanding taking in other p5/g5 schools there will be a trickle down affect. Eventually, the lower end G5 conferences that were poached will be poaching schools from the FCS causing it to turn into a glorified D2. Any program worth their salt should be looking to go FBS before they fade into irrelevance. There may be 1 or 2 exceptions to that (schools like ndsu in the upper midwest) but it is not out of the realm of possibility theose type school may move up. It seems many people on this thread are bitter because they are envious of the invite that KSU received.
The teams leaving the FCS right now - James Madison aside - are broke **** all tiny schools that don't do much on the FCS landscape.

Jax State had a few good years in the OVC under Grass but largely has been irrelevant on the national state
SHSU had a good few years lately under Keeler and finally had the spring season where they didn't **** the bed, but they have no fans, no money, a **** stadium, and the rest of their athletic department no one is jealous of.
Kennesaw State is a commuter school that has existed for 6 years in a **** conference that helped them pile up wins that got them nothing.

Look at who else is being rumored to move up

Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Austin Peay, Tarleton State, SFA, etc.

That isn't exactly a whose who of the FCS. The G5 taking the small, broke, ****ty programs that were D2 until recently out of the FCS does nothing except drop the G5 closer to the FCS. CUSA is going to be rated below more than a few FCS conferences. It's a horrible conference and adding programs that truly can't support an FBS budget is going to tank the athletic departments of all of them.

List of teams to move up in the last decade is the proof quality of the program - or potential of the program - means nothing especially if you haven't joined the Sun Belt

Charlotte - start up program that has been ****
Georgia State - absolute dog **** program
Texas State - worst FBS program in the country and were a bad FCS program
Jacksonville State - 2nd strongest man at the kids table
Sam Houston - strongest man at the kids table
ODU - good FCS program that wasn't ready for a FBS move and has fallen to Texas State levels
Coastal Carolina - even less prepared for an FBS move than ODU, caught lightning in the bottle for a year or two but generally not great
Liberty - was a bad FCS program that had to buy it's way into the FBS and then had to buy a conference (CUSA) to get into one and is now buying programs to come into it
App State - was a good move for everyone
Georgia Southern - meh on many levels but not a bad move for either side
James Madison - needed to go and were ready and found the one conference taking moves up sthat is healthy and done it right (not shockingly it's the same conference that took App and Georgia Southern and kicked out other programs that weren't at that level who are now CUSA programs)

[katss07]

"A few good years lately" yeah I'd say so we've been the most successful FCS program not named NDSU over the past decade plus...

[Mocs123]

I guess C-USA needs to add one more FB school to get to 10 so they can split into two divisions of 5 and have a championship game, but other than that, I'm not sure why they would want to reach to add more schools.

Nothing against UNA, APSU, UCF, etc, but I don't think they have the resources to compete in G5.

[katss07]

I guess C-USA needs to add one more FB school to get to 10 so they can split into two divisions of 5 and have a championship game, but other than that, I'm not sure why they would want to reach to add more schools.

Nothing against UNA, APSU, UCF, etc, but I don't think they have the resources to compete in G5.
CUSA is already at 10

Liberty/WKU/MTSU/FIU/KSU
Jax State/SHSU/LaTech/UTEP/NMSU

[clenz]

"A few good years lately" yeah I'd say so we've been the most successful FCS program not named NDSU over the past decade-plus...
You beat up on the bad SLC and got exposed in the playoffs. James Madison had a better decade. You had the spring title, which is a ****ed up season but whatever, but outside of that SDSU has had a better decade. Just like Jacksonville State.

In terms of the ability to sustain a move up SHSU doesn't seem prepared - and your own fans admit as much.

[Reign of Terrier]

I guess C-USA needs to add one more FB school to get to 10 so they can split into two divisions of 5 and have a championship game, but other than that, I'm not sure why they would want to reach to add more schools.

Nothing against UNA, APSU, UCF, etc, but I don't think they have the resources to compete in G5.
Isn't the rule for a conference title 12?

[POD Knows]

"A few good years lately" yeah I'd say so we've been the most successful FCS program not named NDSU over the past decade plus...
I would put JMU over SHSU for the past decade but it is close.

[clenz]

Isn't the rule for a conference title 12?
Dropped a few years ago at the request of the Sun Belt and B12.

[MR. CHICKEN]

The teams leaving the FCS right now - James Madison aside - are broke **** all tiny schools that don't do much on the FCS landscape.

Jax State had a few good years in the OVC under Grass but largely has been irrelevant on the national state
SHSU had a good few years lately under Keeler and finally had the spring season where they didn't **** the bed, but they have no fans, no money, a **** stadium, and the rest of their athletic department no one is jealous of.
Kennesaw State is a commuter school that has existed for 6 years in a **** conference that helped them pile up wins that got them nothing.

Look at who else is being rumored to move up

Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Austin Peay, Tarleton State, SFA, etc.

That isn't exactly a whose who of the FCS. The G5 taking the small, broke, ****ty programs that were D2 until recently out of the FCS does nothing except drop the G5 closer to the FCS. CUSA is going to be rated below more than a few FCS conferences. It's a horrible conference and adding programs that truly can't support an FBS budget is going to tank the athletic departments of all of them.

List of teams to move up in the last decade is the proof quality of the program - or potential of the program - means nothing especially if you haven't joined the Sun Belt

Charlotte - start up program that has been ****
Georgia State - absolute dog **** program
Texas State - worst FBS program in the country and were a bad FCS program
Jacksonville State - 2nd strongest man at the kids table
Sam Houston - strongest man at the kids table
ODU - good FCS program that wasn't ready for a FBS move and has fallen to Texas State levels
Coastal Carolina - even less prepared for an FBS move than ODU, caught lightning in the bottle for a year or two but generally not great
Liberty - was a bad FCS program that had to buy it's way into the FBS and then had to buy a conference (CUSA) to get into one and is now buying programs to come into it
App State - was a good move for everyone
Georgia Southern - meh on many levels but not a bad move for either side
James Madison - needed to go and were ready and found the one conference taking moves up sthat is healthy and done it right (not shockingly it's the same conference that took App and Georgia Southern and kicked out other programs that weren't at that level who are now CUSA programs)

......FIRST YEAR IN DUH THING.......LET US HOLD OFF UH FEW YEARS........TBD............BRAWK!

[katss07]

You beat up on the bad SLC and got exposed in the playoffs. James Madison had a better decade. You had the spring title, which is a ****ed up season but whatever, but outside of that SDSU has had a better decade. Just like Jacksonville State.

In terms of the ability to sustain a move up SHSU doesn't seem prepared - and your own fans admit as much.
Believe me, I don't want FBS.

Second most playoff wins since 2010? More than SDSU... and James Madison who can't get past Colgate. Our *****ed spring title should be worth MORE than a normal one considering all the turmoil surrounding the COVID season but whatever. Numbers don't lie. Sams has been a more successful team in the postseason than JMU, or any MVFC program aside from the Bison for years now. And we do it with no fans or money. Clearly the FCS is drying up.

[clenz]

Believe me, I don't want FBS.

Second most playoff wins since 2010? More than SDSU... and James Madison who can't get past Colgate. Our *****ed spring title should be worth MORE than a normal one considering all the turmoil surrounding the COVID season but whatever. Numbers don't lie. Sams has been a more successful team in the postseason than JMU, or any MVFC program aside from the Bison for years now. And we do it with no fans or money. Clearly the FCS is drying up.
Yeah

The losses of Kenensaw, Central Arkansas, Tarleton, Jacksonville State, etc. really dry up the FCS.

[JSUSoutherner]

The teams leaving the FCS right now - James Madison aside - are broke **** all tiny schools that don't do much on the FCS landscape.

Jax State had a few good years in the OVC under Grass but largely has been irrelevant on the national state
SHSU had a good few years lately under Keeler and finally had the spring season where they didn't **** the bed, but they have no fans, no money, a **** stadium, and the rest of their athletic department no one is jealous of.
Kennesaw State is a commuter school that has existed for 6 years in a **** conference that helped them pile up wins that got them nothing.

Look at who else is being rumored to move up

Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Austin Peay, Tarleton State, SFA, etc.

That isn't exactly a whose who of the FCS. The G5 taking the small, broke, ****ty programs that were D2 until recently out of the FCS does nothing except drop the G5 closer to the FCS. CUSA is going to be rated below more than a few FCS conferences. It's a horrible conference and adding programs that truly can't support an FBS budget is going to tank the athletic departments of all of them.

List of teams to move up in the last decade is the proof quality of the program - or potential of the program - means nothing especially if you haven't joined the Sun Belt

Charlotte - start up program that has been ****
Georgia State - absolute dog **** program
Texas State - worst FBS program in the country and were a bad FCS program
Jacksonville State - 2nd strongest man at the kids table
Sam Houston - strongest man at the kids table
ODU - good FCS program that wasn't ready for a FBS move and has fallen to Texas State levels
Coastal Carolina - even less prepared for an FBS move than ODU, caught lightning in the bottle for a year or two but generally not great
Liberty - was a bad FCS program that had to buy it's way into the FBS and then had to buy a conference (CUSA) to get into one and is now buying programs to come into it
App State - was a good move for everyone
Georgia Southern - meh on many levels but not a bad move for either side
James Madison - needed to go and were ready and found the one conference taking moves up sthat is healthy and done it right (not shockingly it's the same conference that took App and Georgia Southern and kicked out other programs that weren't at that level who are now CUSA programs)

We're in a pretty similar spot that Coastal was when they moved up and they seem to have been fine. We're better from a facilities standpoint and from an attendance standpoint. We're similar in university profile. We've shown to have an athletics department that's willing to spend the money necessary to compete. And we've arguably had more FCS success than they have even though it's not something that seems to directly translate (see: Georgia Southern)

I would be worried if we were going to end up in the west division but as it stands, the east would actually be a really nice setup for us. We'd be able to build a rivalry with MTSU and WKU, while renewing our rivalries with Troy and Southern Miss. We already have home and homes with Georgia Southern set up and So Miss is in the works (from what I've been told at least). So the division we're moving into won't put us in anything like an Idaho situation. It will be pretty comparable to what we have in the ASun now. Just with some trips out to Texas.

I'm more concerned with who is getting brought in with us at this point.


CUSA is already at 10

Liberty/WKU/MTSU/FIU/KSU
Jax State/SHSU/LaTech/UTEP/NMSU
Zero chance we end up in the west.


If anyone ends up in the west it will be FIU. They fly everywhere by default so they can just fly out west rather than making us have to fly everywhere as well.

[Mocs123]

I guess C-USA needs to add one more FB school to get to 10 so they can split into two divisions of 5 and have a championship game, but other than that, I'm not sure why they would want to reach to add more schools.

Nothing against UNA, APSU, UCF, etc, but I don't think they have the resources to compete in G5.

[katss07]

......FIRST YEAR IN DUH THING.......LET US HOLD OFF UH FEW YEARS........TBD............BRAWK!
Calling the Sun Belt a “healthy conference who done it right” while simultaneously making fun of CUSA for adding “broke **** schools” like Kennesaw State is quite the choice, too. As if the entire Sun Belt West aren’t broke **** FCS quality schools. They were adding the Texas States and ULMs of the world not too long ago.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Calling the Sun Belt a “healthy conference who done it right” while simultaneously making fun of CUSA for adding “broke **** schools” like Kennesaw State is quite the choice, too. As if the entire Sun Belt West aren’t broke **** FCS quality schools. They were adding the Texas States and ULMs of the world not too long ago.

Bringing in Georgia Southern and App State turned the tide for the league we used to jokingly refer to as the "Slum Belt" or the "Sun Belch". Two absolutely rabid fan bases with programs ready to go to compete at the next level. Then they gambled on Coastal, a decent FCS team in a phenomenal location perfectly fitting the league's new footprint. And they lucked out that CCU became the G5 darling that everyone wanted to see on ESPN. And the success of these three (App, Georgia Southern, CCU) is what resulted in Marshall, JMU and ODU being interested in coming in.

It's funny how the typical progression following each round of P5 expansion in the 2000's and 2010's was that the top Sun Belt programs would "graduate" to Conference USA, which was considered a better league. Look at MTSU and Western Kentucky. Both these two schools would kill to get back into the Sun Belt after they left it 10 years ago for what they thought were greener pastures.

The regional dynamic that the Sun Belt is put together is something that could be mirrored in the Great Plains/Rocky Mountain Region if the right schools could work it out and get into the same conference. Think Dakotas, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming....

[NY Crusader 2010]

I guess C-USA needs to add one more FB school to get to 10 so they can split into two divisions of 5 and have a championship game, but other than that, I'm not sure why they would want to reach to add more schools.

Nothing against UNA, APSU, UCF, etc, but I don't think they have the resources to compete in G5.

That's the issue. There are no more state schools at the level of App State, Georgia Southern and JMU knocking at the door right now. Look at the FCS Top 25 this year -- after all the defections, which most recently included Sammy and Jax State, I have never seen so many private schools, with good teams but without the size to be considered for an FBS move, in the rankings.

[Daytripper]

You beat up on the bad SLC and got exposed in the playoffs. James Madison had a better decade. You had the spring title, which is a ****ed up season but whatever, but outside of that SDSU has had a better decade. Just like Jacksonville State.

In terms of the ability to sustain a move up SHSU doesn't seem prepared - and your own fans admit as much.

At least we made multiple deep runs in the playoffs. Did some end in less-than-spectacular fashion?...sure. But, you can only play who is in front of you in your conference. You can only play who you are pitted against in the bracket. You haters can belittle and denigrate all you want, but you know you wish you had our resume over yours in the last decade.

As for moving up, we will see. At least we are trying to improve ourselves and reach for something bigger. Staying where you are in the FCS while it withers down to a meaningless D-II is cool if that is the vision of your AD.

[clenz]

Bringing in Georgia Southern and App State turned the tide for the league we used to jokingly refer to as the "Slum Belt" or the "Sun Belch". Two absolutely rabid fan bases with programs ready to go to compete at the next level. Then they gambled on Coastal, a decent FCS team in a phenomenal location perfectly fitting the league's new footprint. And they lucked out that CCU became the G5 darling that everyone wanted to see on ESPN. And the success of these three (App, Georgia Southern, CCU) is what resulted in Marshall, JMU and ODU being interested in coming in.

It's funny how the typical progression following each round of P5 expansion in the 2000's and 2010's was that the top Sun Belt programs would "graduate" to Conference USA, which was considered a better league. Look at MTSU and Western Kentucky. Both these two schools would kill to get back into the Sun Belt after they left it 10 years ago for what they thought were greener pastures.

The regional dynamic that the Sun Belt is put together is something that could be mirrored in the Great Plains/Rocky Mountain Region if the right schools could work it out and get into the same conference. Think Dakotas, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming....
That's exactly what makes the Sun Belt so much healthier right now

App/Georgia Southern absolutely changed the tide on what the Sun Belt was doing. Everyone move they've made the last 8-10 years has been entirely dedicated to fitting the region, fitting the university profile, fitting the culture, fitting the football side of things. They forced non-football schools UALR and UT-Arlington out and replaced them with James Madison and Marshall along with Southern Miss. App State, Georgia Southern and CCU are their other adds in the last 9 years

So you've done traded
FAU for App State
FIU for Georgia Southern
Middle Tennessee State for Coastal Carolina
North Texas for James Madison
Western Kentucky for Marshall
UALR for ODU
UT-Arlington for Texas State

Added Southern Miss as a kicker as a football school

FAU/FIU are schools without a home/identity, especially in athletics. App State and Georgia Southern are football schools dedicated to that culture. James Madison (yes, they are in year 1) has more money, more fans, more success, more national name, etc. than North Texas. Marshall and WKU are about a push. Two non-football schools pushed out for football schools. Texas State was a stretch of an add, but when that happened the SBC was at the very beginning of redfining who they are as a conference. Southern Miss as a football school for #14 is a no brainer over UALR or UT-Arlington.

CUSA is the knock off version of the AAC right now. CUSA, in the last decade, has lost
UCF
Houston
Memphis
SMU
ECU
Tulane
Tulsa
Marshall
ODU
Southern Miss

It is currently set to lose
UAB

FAU
Charlotte
North Texas
Rice
UTSA

To replace all of those they are bringing in
Jacksonville State - FCS move up 3 conferences in 3 years
Liberty - a school litterally no one wanted so they are using cult money to buy the conference
New Mexico State - a school literally no one has wanted for a decade
Sam Houston - an FCS move up 3 conferences in 3 years, a school where the HC doesn't want the move, the majority of fans don't want the move, a school with a 3 million dollar football budget

and then some combo of
Tarleton State (D2 until a year or two ago) with a $13m budget total and 3m for football
Central Arkansas (just completed a D2 transition) with a smaller budget than Tarleton State
Eastern Kentucky who has been irrelevant in the FCS world for the better part of 4 decades and a 16m total budget

I've done the breakdown here before but App, Georgia Southern, CCU, etc. all had higher budgets to start with an had things in place to be at/near 35-40 within 2 years of going FBS

App spends 10m on football a year - a 80% increase since they were FCS
CCU is over 13m and increased its athletic budget by 40% since they moved
Georgia Southern has increased football spending 171% since they moved and their entire athletic budget 157%

To ignore things beyond "SHSU won FCS playoff games" when it comes to how much more stable/healthy/strategic the Sun Belt was over the last 10 years than CUSA, especially moving forward, is biased because CUSA is now your home and refusing to acknowledge the reality of CUSA and what's happening in/around it.

[JSUSoutherner]

That's exactly what makes the Sun Belt so much healthier right now

App/Georgia Southern absolutely changed the tide on what the Sun Belt was doing. Everyone move they've made the last 8-10 years has been entirely dedicated to fitting the region, fitting the university profile, fitting the culture, fitting the football side of things. They forced non-football schools UALR and UT-Arlington out and replaced them with James Madison and Marshall along with Southern Miss. App State, Georgia Southern and CCU are their other adds in the last 9 years

So you've done traded
FAU for App State
FIU for Georgia Southern
Middle Tennessee State for Coastal Carolina
North Texas for James Madison
Western Kentucky for Marshall
UALR for ODU
UT-Arlington for Texas State

Added Southern Miss as a kicker as a football school

FAU/FIU are schools without a home/identity, especially in athletics. App State and Georgia Southern are football schools dedicated to that culture. James Madison (yes, they are in year 1) has more money, more fans, more success, more national name, etc. than North Texas. Marshall and WKU are about a push. Two non-football schools pushed out for football schools. Texas State was a stretch of an add, but when that happened the SBC was at the very beginning of redfining who they are as a conference. Southern Miss as a football school for #14 is a no brainer over UALR or UT-Arlington.

CUSA is the knock off version of the AAC right now. CUSA, in the last decade, has lost
UCF
Houston
Memphis
SMU
ECU
Tulane
Tulsa
Marshall
ODU
Southern Miss

It is currently set to lose
UAB

FAU
Charlotte
North Texas
Rice
UTSA

To replace all of those they are bringing in
Jacksonville State - FCS move up 3 conferences in 3 years
Liberty - a school litterally no one wanted so they are using cult money to buy the conference
New Mexico State - a school literally no one has wanted for a decade
Sam Houston - an FCS move up 3 conferences in 3 years, a school where the HC doesn't want the move, the majority of fans don't want the move, a school with a 3 million dollar football budget

and then some combo of
Tarleton State (D2 until a year or two ago) with a $13m budget total and 3m for football
Central Arkansas (just completed a D2 transition) with a smaller budget than Tarleton State
Eastern Kentucky who has been irrelevant in the FCS world for the better part of 4 decades and a 16m total budget

I've done the breakdown here before but App, Georgia Southern, CCU, etc. all had higher budgets to start with an had things in place to be at/near 35-40 within 2 years of going FBS

App spends 10m on football a year - a 80% increase since they were FCS
CCU is over 13m and increased its athletic budget by 40% since they moved
Georgia Southern has increased football spending 171% since they moved and their entire athletic budget 157%

To ignore things beyond "SHSU won FCS playoff games" when it comes to how much more stable/healthy/strategic the Sun Belt was over the last 10 years than CUSA, especially moving forward, is biased because CUSA is now your home and refusing to acknowledge the reality of CUSA and what's happening in/around it.
This is why, as much as I hate to say it, I don't think Kennesaw is a truly terrible all around get.

Sam and UCA haven't shown they're willing to put forth the cash.

Jax State has. Kennesaw absolutely has the financial backing to if they choose to. So from that POV I'm fine with it, provided they throw down on a new stadium and try to get some actual fans. But that's much easier said than done I admit.

But the problem I have with UCA, APSU, and especially EKU, is none of them have that going for them. You could make a case that APSU is making an effort to get better, but they are still only 5 years removed from being the biggest D1 dumpster fire not burdened by a scandal.

The real problem for CUSA is there really isn't anyone left to grab that's worth a damn.

[HootyHoo]

That's exactly what makes the Sun Belt so much healthier right now

App/Georgia Southern absolutely changed the tide on what the Sun Belt was doing. Everyone move they've made the last 8-10 years has been entirely dedicated to fitting the region, fitting the university profile, fitting the culture, fitting the football side of things. They forced non-football schools UALR and UT-Arlington out and replaced them with James Madison and Marshall along with Southern Miss. App State, Georgia Southern and CCU are their other adds in the last 9 years

So you've done traded
FAU for App State
FIU for Georgia Southern
Middle Tennessee State for Coastal Carolina
North Texas for James Madison
Western Kentucky for Marshall
UALR for ODU
UT-Arlington for Texas State

Added Southern Miss as a kicker as a football school

FAU/FIU are schools without a home/identity, especially in athletics. App State and Georgia Southern are football schools dedicated to that culture. James Madison (yes, they are in year 1) has more money, more fans, more success, more national name, etc. than North Texas. Marshall and WKU are about a push. Two non-football schools pushed out for football schools. Texas State was a stretch of an add, but when that happened the SBC was at the very beginning of redfining who they are as a conference. Southern Miss as a football school for #14 is a no brainer over UALR or UT-Arlington.

CUSA is the knock off version of the AAC right now. CUSA, in the last decade, has lost
UCF
Houston
Memphis
SMU
ECU
Tulane
Tulsa
Marshall
ODU
Southern Miss

It is currently set to lose
UAB

FAU
Charlotte
North Texas
Rice
UTSA

To replace all of those they are bringing in
Jacksonville State - FCS move up 3 conferences in 3 years
Liberty - a school litterally no one wanted so they are using cult money to buy the conference
New Mexico State - a school literally no one has wanted for a decade
Sam Houston - an FCS move up 3 conferences in 3 years, a school where the HC doesn't want the move, the majority of fans don't want the move, a school with a 3 million dollar football budget

and then some combo of
Tarleton State (D2 until a year or two ago) with a $13m budget total and 3m for football
Central Arkansas (just completed a D2 transition) with a smaller budget than Tarleton State
Eastern Kentucky who has been irrelevant in the FCS world for the better part of 4 decades and a 16m total budget

I've done the breakdown here before but App, Georgia Southern, CCU, etc. all had higher budgets to start with an had things in place to be at/near 35-40 within 2 years of going FBS

App spends 10m on football a year - a 80% increase since they were FCS
CCU is over 13m and increased its athletic budget by 40% since they moved
Georgia Southern has increased football spending 171% since they moved and their entire athletic budget 157%

To ignore things beyond "SHSU won FCS playoff games" when it comes to how much more stable/healthy/strategic the Sun Belt was over the last 10 years than CUSA, especially moving forward, is biased because CUSA is now your home and refusing to acknowledge the reality of CUSA and what's happening in/around it.

Hooty notices no mention of KSU, is it because we blow up your narrative of tiny s*** schools with no budget? No one is disputing that C-USA is the worst FBS conference right now. But until recently C-USA was the superior league to the Sun Belt and can be again. KSU and JSU have the potential to grow into an app state/ ga southern type presence in the league. Liberty is controversial but they have great facilities and are competitive in all sports. Let's not act like they aren't a Top 40 team in FBS, because they definitely are. The conference has a long way to go but it's not impossible by any means.

[EKU05]

EKU, is none of them have that going for them.

I want to make sure I'm not misreading this. You're implying that EKU isn't putting the money into athletic facilities right now?

[Mocs123]

I'm not saying KSU couldn't be successful if they do move up - they absolutely have a large student population that they can levy a steep "athletics fee" on to help raise funds and are in a good media and recruiting market - of course all those same things could/can be said about Georgia State too.

I'm not sure a comparison with App and GSU (the original GSU) is a good one though. KSU is a commuter school (so is UTC to be fair) and really doesn't have good attendance or support for football. Appy State and GSU both had rabid support for their programs in FCS and averaged nearly four times the attendance of KSU. Back when the National Championship game was in Chattanooga, App Fans used to buy UTC Football season tickets so they could get the preferred option for NC game tickets before they went on sale to anyone else. Honestly JSU and App have some similarities as they have a strong fan base too, but I'm not sure I'd put KSU in that category.

[JSUSoutherner]

I want to make sure I'm not misreading this. You're implying that EKU isn't putting the money into athletic facilities right now?
You guys done anything other than add some bleachers on the back sideline and suck really hard at sports?

What does EKU bring to the table?

[HootyHoo]

I'm not saying KSU couldn't be successful if they do move up - they absolutely have a large student population that they can levy a steep "athletics fee" on to help raise funds and are in a good media and recruiting market - of course all those same things could/can be said about Georgia State too.

I'm not sure a comparison with App and GSU (the original GSU) is a good one though. KSU is a commuter school (so is UTC to be fair) and really doesn't have good attendance or support for football. Appy State and GSU both had rabid support for their programs in FCS and averaged nearly four times the attendance of KSU. Back when the National Championship game was in Chattanooga, App Fans used to buy UTC Football season tickets so they could get the preferred option for NC game tickets before they went on sale to anyone else. Honestly JSU and App have some similarities as they have a strong fan base too, but I'm not sure I'd put KSU in that category.


That's fair as far as the fanbases go. Hooty will refrain from mentioning Owls fans at all since it seems everybody on this board wants to make it very clear:
KSU HAS ZERO FANS. NOBODY COMES TO THE GAMES. THE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY JUST CARDBOARD CUTOUTS.

Now moving on....KSU has the support of Cobb County. KSU will not be relying on student fees. The County is going to bankroll this project because they want a 30K mixed use facility to host concerts and other events. Let Hooty be very clear. KSU has access to more money than JSU, more money than SHSU. The only team that has more money in the conference is Liberty.

Is it such a bad thing to be a commuter school? UCF is basically an identical university profile to KSU. Things seem to have worked out for the Golden Knights.

[JSUSoutherner]

That's fair as far as the fanbases go. Hooty will refrain from mentioning Owls fans at all since it seems everybody on this board wants to make it very clear:
KSU HAS ZERO FANS. NOBODY COMES TO THE GAMES. THE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY JUST CARDBOARD CUTOUTS.

Now moving on....KSU has the support of Cobb County. KSU will not be relying on student fees. The County is going to bankroll this project because they want a 30K mixed use facility to host concerts and other events. Let Hooty be very clear. KSU has access to more money than JSU, more money than SHSU. The only team that has more money in the conference is Liberty.

Is it such a bad thing to be a commuter school? UCF is basically an identical university profile to KSU. Things seem to have worked out for the Golden Knights.
Yeah but UCF has fans.

[katss07]

Bringing in Georgia Southern and App State turned the tide for the league we used to jokingly refer to as the "Slum Belt" or the "Sun Belch". Two absolutely rabid fan bases with programs ready to go to compete at the next level. Then they gambled on Coastal, a decent FCS team in a phenomenal location perfectly fitting the league's new footprint. And they lucked out that CCU became the G5 darling that everyone wanted to see on ESPN. And the success of these three (App, Georgia Southern, CCU) is what resulted in Marshall, JMU and ODU being interested in coming in.

It's funny how the typical progression following each round of P5 expansion in the 2000's and 2010's was that the top Sun Belt programs would "graduate" to Conference USA, which was considered a better league. Look at MTSU and Western Kentucky. Both these two schools would kill to get back into the Sun Belt after they left it 10 years ago for what they thought were greener pastures.

The regional dynamic that the Sun Belt is put together is something that could be mirrored in the Great Plains/Rocky Mountain Region if the right schools could work it out and get into the same conference. Think Dakotas, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming....
It is funny. College sports and conference affiliations are so volatile, especially at the G5 level. And it could very well change once again. People boost up the SBC now, but they were the butt of jokes taking in TXST and Coastal. Who knows, maybe Jacksonville State is the next App State. Maybe the tide is turning for CUSA. They sure don’t seem to be making it easy on themselves.

[Mocs123]

I'm not dogging on the Owls (in this post) as we've had our own struggles with attendance but I'm just saying that those schools had large rabid fanbases for years before they went FBS. I don't think anyone doubted App's readiness and it's shown. GSU people were a little less sure about, but they were closer (IMO) then most of the schools moving up today (JMU aside). KSU will need Cobb Co, support and there are plenty of resources there to help ease the transition. JSU has a strong fan base and community support. Money may be an issue for them though, but they want to be successful and have a former rival in Troy they will go to great lengths to be competitive with.

Liberty is the elephant in the room for all the C-USA teams as they have the funding of a lower tier P5.

If the Owls have half the success of UCF moving up will be considered a success.

[EKU05]

You guys done anything other than add some bleachers on the back sideline and suck really hard at sports?

What does EKU bring to the table?

Let's address the second statement first shall we? During JSU's time in the OVC EKU...

-Won the all-sports trophy like three out of every four years. JSU never won it a single time if I remember correctly. So if you're going to say "suck at sports" at least qualify it.
-You certainly don't mean men's basketball given that we had the third highest conference win total in that time period and JSU wasn't one of the two ahead of us (Belmont, Murray State).
-So by "sports" you must mean football in which JSU has "dominated" us with a whopping 8-6 advantage in the head to head series. Congratulations on taking advantage of the Mark Elder era.
-Maybe you mean the most recent football game? No...EKU won that too. Admittedly, I'd pick you to win this year when we meet up.

Now look, I'm not here to disparage JSU's program just because. To be clear, I think it was smart that C-USA took you before us. But the "suck at sports" thing is a silly statement.

But what else have we done?

-Knocked down and rebuilt the entire baseball stadium.
-Built a new indoor hitting facility for baseball.
-Knocked down and rebuilt the entire softball stadium.
-Built a new indoor hitting facility for softball.
-Rebuilt the small side of the football stadium already, and they are currently raising the money to overhaul the larger side as well. They just signed a new corporate naming deal to help with that project.
-The already pretty good basketball arena is getting a $31 million renovation that will basically rebuild the entire interior of the arena.
-We also draw three times as many fans as KSU for football, and nearly double what SHSU gets.


So look. Are we the only choice? Of course not, and I'm not contending that we are. Other schools have their merits. But to act like we're doing nothing is just outing your ignorance.

[JSUSoutherner]

I'm not dogging on the Owls (in this post) as we've had our own struggles with attendance but I'm just saying that those schools had large rabid fanbases for years before they went FBS. I don't think anyone doubted App's readiness and it's shown. GSU people were a little less sure about, but they were closer (IMO) then most of the schools moving up today (JMU aside). KSU will need Cobb Co, support and there are plenty of resources there to help ease the transition. JSU has a strong fan base and community support. Money may be an issue for them though, but they want to be successful and have a former rival in Troy they will go to great lengths to be competitive with.

Liberty is the elephant in the room for all the C-USA teams as they have the funding of a lower tier P5.

If the Owls have half the success of UCF moving up will be considered a success.
We're dropping $80m on updating a stadium we just updated.

I think we're better off than we get credit for.

[Mocs123]

I'm far from an expert on JSU's athletics department, but I get the impression they are sort of like Georgia Southern, where they minimize funding for all other sports to put out a quality football program.

[clenz]

Hooty notices no mention of KSU, is it because we blow up your narrative of tiny s*** schools with no budget? .
No.

It's because even though this thread is about them, they literally never cross my mind. That's not a dig for the purpose of this thread. I literally didn't even have them enter my mind on all of this.

[Mocs123]

We're dropping $80m on updating a stadium we just updated.

I think we're better off than we get credit for.

On my first trip to Jacksonville for a game in 2007? JSU's stadium was descent sized - I think it sat 13K - but had the feel of a large HS stadium to me. The upgrades you did a few years ago are really nice and while there are some things I'm not wild about, it's a fantastic facility even before the proposed upgrades. It's currently one of the nicest facilities in FCS and should be a nice G5 facility too.

[JSUSoutherner]

Let's address the second statement first shall we? During JSU's time in the OVC EKU...

-Won the all-sports trophy like three out of every four years. JSU never won it a single time if I remember correctly. So if you're going to say "suck at sports" at least qualify it.
-You certainly don't mean men's basketball given that we had the third highest conference win total in that time period and JSU wasn't one of the two ahead of us (Belmont, Murray State).
-So by "sports" you must mean football in which JSU has "dominated" us with a whopping 8-6 advantage in the head to head series. Congratulations on taking advantage of the Mark Elder era.
-Maybe you mean the most recent football game? No...EKU won that too. Admittedly, I'd pick you to win this year when we meet up.

Now look, I'm not here to disparage JSU's program just because. To be clear, I think it was smart that C-USA took you before us. But the "suck at sports" thing is a silly statement.

But what else have we done?

-Knocked down and rebuilt the entire baseball stadium.
-Built a new indoor hitting facility for baseball.
-Knocked down and rebuilt the entire softball stadium.
-Built a new indoor hitting facility for softball.
-Rebuilt the small side of the football stadium already, and they are currently raising the money to overhaul the larger side as well. They just signed a new corporate naming deal to help with that project.
-The already pretty good basketball arena is getting a $31 million renovation that will basically rebuild the entire interior of the arena.
-We also draw three times as many fans as KSU for football, and nearly double what SHSU gets.


So look. Are we the only choice? Of course not, and I'm not contending that we are. Other schools have their merits. But to act like we're doing nothing is just outing your ignorance.
Admittedly, I was partially pulling your chain.

I know you guys have been dumping money into facilities and I know you guys draw well. Didnt know you had that much going on though. I admittedly don't really follow it much.

If I'm honest my problem with EKU is the problem I think a lot of EKU fans seem to have with the program. Y'all have only had 3 seasons with 8 wins or better in the past 15 years. Y'all haven't won a postseason game since before I was born. And in the past 8 seasons of hoops y'all have had 6 losing records.

You guys used to be an absolute powerhouse. But it seems the admin is content with the regression and being mediocre most years as long as there's a 2020 basketball season or 2014 football season sprinkled in every blue moon.

If this version of CUSA has any chance of working it needs schools that will commit to being better, follow through, and not be satisfied with 7-4.

[HootyHoo]

No.

It's because even though this thread is about them, they literally never cross my mind. That's not a dig for the purpose of this thread. I literally didn't even have them enter my mind on all of this.

It is literally the Title of the thread lol. It must really burn you that KSU got invited. Hooty has been saying for years that the Owls are a sleeping giant. And now, everything is proceeding exactly as Hooty has foreseen. You shall bear witness to our rise to greatness.

[JSUSoutherner]

It is literally the Title of the thread lol. It must really burn you that KSU got invited. Hooty has been saying for years that the Owls are a sleeping giant. And now, everything is proceeding exactly as Hooty has foreseen. You shall bear witness to our rise to greatness.

I can tell you with 100% certainty, he really doesn't care.


I'm far from an expert on JSU's athletics department, but I get the impression they are sort of like Georgia Southern, where they minimize funding for all other sports to put out a quality football program.Well in the past 5 years we've renovated the basketball arena, overhauled the softball field, and built a brand new baseball stadium.

Honestly if Jim Case would hurry up and retire so we could get a coach more with the times we'd be in good shape.

There's also a couple whispers of a completely new basketball arena in the next couple years. But Im not putting much stock into them unless the basketball program keeps winning. I'd rather keep paying Harper than get a bigger court. But it wouldn't surprise me if that becomes the next big thing after the football stadium, the housing, and the performance center projects wrap up.

[FUBeAR]

That's fair as far as the fanbases go. Hooty will refrain from mentioning Owls fans at all since it seems everybody on this board wants to make it very clear:
KSU HAS ZERO FANS. NOBODY COMES TO THE GAMES. THE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY JUST CARDBOARD CUTOUTS.

Now moving on....KSU has the support of Cobb County. KSU will not be relying on student fees. The County is going to bankroll this project because they want a 30K mixed use facility to host concerts and other events. Let Hooty be very clear. KSU has access to more money than JSU, more money than SHSU. The only team that has more money in the conference is Liberty.

Is it such a bad thing to be a commuter school? UCF is basically an identical university profile to KSU. Things seem to have worked out for the Golden Knights.Link to source?

[clenz]

It is literally the Title of the thread lol. It must really burn you that KSU got invited.the next time I care what the title of a thread is when I start posting in it will be the first.

Second I genuinely couldn’t give less of a shot of KSU got an invite before UNI. I can promise you UNI tells CUSA no even if invited. Just like NDSU, Missouri State, Stephan F Austin, etc.

UNIs athletic department has a home that is significantly better, top to bottom, than CUSA and it’s really not close.

KSU wants to go into massive debt to finish middle to bottom of the worst FBS conference that will be rated below 3 or 4 FCS conferences, including UNIs conference, then so be it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[katss07]

That's exactly what makes the Sun Belt so much healthier right now

App/Georgia Southern absolutely changed the tide on what the Sun Belt was doing. Everyone move they've made the last 8-10 years has been entirely dedicated to fitting the region, fitting the university profile, fitting the culture, fitting the football side of things. They forced non-football schools UALR and UT-Arlington out and replaced them with James Madison and Marshall along with Southern Miss. App State, Georgia Southern and CCU are their other adds in the last 9 years

So you've done traded
FAU for App State
FIU for Georgia Southern
Middle Tennessee State for Coastal Carolina
North Texas for James Madison
Western Kentucky for Marshall
UALR for ODU
UT-Arlington for Texas State

Added Southern Miss as a kicker as a football school

FAU/FIU are schools without a home/identity, especially in athletics. App State and Georgia Southern are football schools dedicated to that culture. James Madison (yes, they are in year 1) has more money, more fans, more success, more national name, etc. than North Texas. Marshall and WKU are about a push. Two non-football schools pushed out for football schools. Texas State was a stretch of an add, but when that happened the SBC was at the very beginning of redfining who they are as a conference. Southern Miss as a football school for #14 is a no brainer over UALR or UT-Arlington.

CUSA is the knock off version of the AAC right now. CUSA, in the last decade, has lost
UCF
Houston
Memphis
SMU
ECU
Tulane
Tulsa
Marshall
ODU
Southern Miss

It is currently set to lose
UAB

FAU
Charlotte
North Texas
Rice
UTSA

To replace all of those they are bringing in
Jacksonville State - FCS move up 3 conferences in 3 years
Liberty - a school litterally no one wanted so they are using cult money to buy the conference
New Mexico State - a school literally no one has wanted for a decade
Sam Houston - an FCS move up 3 conferences in 3 years, a school where the HC doesn't want the move, the majority of fans don't want the move, a school with a 3 million dollar football budget

and then some combo of
Tarleton State (D2 until a year or two ago) with a $13m budget total and 3m for football
Central Arkansas (just completed a D2 transition) with a smaller budget than Tarleton State
Eastern Kentucky who has been irrelevant in the FCS world for the better part of 4 decades and a 16m total budget

I've done the breakdown here before but App, Georgia Southern, CCU, etc. all had higher budgets to start with an had things in place to be at/near 35-40 within 2 years of going FBS

App spends 10m on football a year - a 80% increase since they were FCS
CCU is over 13m and increased its athletic budget by 40% since they moved
Georgia Southern has increased football spending 171% since they moved and their entire athletic budget 157%

To ignore things beyond "SHSU won FCS playoff games" when it comes to how much more stable/healthy/strategic the Sun Belt was over the last 10 years than CUSA, especially moving forward, is biased because CUSA is now your home and refusing to acknowledge the reality of CUSA and what's happening in/around it.
“SHSU won FCS playoff games” isn’t an argument for CUSA being better than the Sun Belt, and it never was. Its an argument for the program being more than a “broke **** tiny school that didn’t do much on the FCS landscape”. I don’t think anyone believes CUSA is better than the Sun Belt. Good try, though.

[katss07]

This is why, as much as I hate to say it, I don't think Kennesaw is a truly terrible all around get.

Sam and UCA haven't shown they're willing to put forth the cash.

Jax State has. Kennesaw absolutely has the financial backing to if they choose to. So from that POV I'm fine with it, provided they throw down on a new stadium and try to get some actual fans. But that's much easier said than done I admit.

But the problem I have with UCA, APSU, and especially EKU, is none of them have that going for them. You could make a case that APSU is making an effort to get better, but they are still only 5 years removed from being the biggest D1 dumpster fire not burdened by a scandal.

The real problem for CUSA is there really isn't anyone left to grab that's worth a damn.
The real problem for CUSA is that neither Missouri State or Chattanooga are interested. There are schools worth adding in the SE. None care to be in CUSA though, and who can blame em?

JMU used to turn their nose up at the SBC. Think they rejected them twice. Maybe MSU, or one of the schools worth adding, come around eventually.

[HootyHoo]

Link to source?

The BOR votes tomorrow . The plans will be released for you to read all about them Fubear.

[FUBeAR]

The BOR votes tomorrow . The plans will be released for you to read all about them Fubear.
A. Board of Regents of KSU controlling the purse strings of Cobb County these days

OR

B. I got no source. It’s all just wild speculation


FUBeAR will take B. for $1,000, Alex.

[HootyHoo]

A. Board of Regents of KSU controlling the purse strings of Cobb County these days

OR

B. I got no source. It’s all just wild speculation


FUBeAR will take B. for $1,000, Alex.

the B.O.R has to approve a change to KSU’s Athletic agreement. Obviously they do not control the spending of C.C.

[FUBeAR]

the B.O.R has to approve a change to KSU’s Athletic agreement. Obviously they do not control the spending of C.C.
So, this statement of yours…

“KSU has the support of Cobb County. KSU will not be relying on student fees. The County is going to bankroll this project because they want a 30K mixed use facility to host concerts and other events.”

…is, then, just wild speculation. Right?

[HootyHoo]

So, this statement of yours…

“KSU has the support of Cobb County. KSU will not be relying on student fees. The County is going to bankroll this project because they want a 30K mixed use facility to host concerts and other events.”

…is, then, just wild speculation. Right?

Hooty doesn't have any insider info. But it seems every KSU alum/fan is hearing the same thing. That KSU is getting a new stadium and surrounding bars/restaurants/entertainment called Hooty World. All of this seems to be pretty far along in the process. The University wouldn't go before the board with a half baked idea.

[UNAPride]

Liberty - was a bad FCS program that had to buy it's way into the FBS and then had to buy a conference (CUSA) to get into one and is now buying programs to come into it


As all of this continues to unfold, I see this as being the driver of it all.

It's been tough for UNA to go through a four-year transition with a school like Liberty in the conference due to their unlimited funds and amazing facilities. But, they have sort of been the big brother to many ASUN programs, like UNA, who see what a real budget can do. They threw the Lions a bone in 2020 and scheduled them in football.

I can totally see this as their master plan, however. They've been FBS Indy for several years now and needed a conference home. The chips started falling in P5, then G5, and they saw their in! A conference on its last legs needing an interested school with a lot of money. Next, they needed more football schools. Liberty's current conference just happens to have several.

Now, more ASUN teams are/will be invited and all of a sudden, the votes are there to over rule WKU and invite EKU (who would be their closest CUSA foe to Lynchburg).

I dunno really. But, I just see Liberty as pulling most of the strings here. Of course, to set themselves up for CUSA domination in every sport until they are eventually invited to the ACC. Thus, fulfilling the mission to move from the Big South to P5.

[HootyHoo]

As all of this continues to unfold, I see this as being the driver of it all.

It's been tough for UNA to go through a four-year transition with a school like Liberty in the conference due to their unlimited funds and amazing facilities. But, they have sort of been the big brother to many ASUN programs, like UNA, who see what a real budget can do. They threw the Lions a bone in 2020 and scheduled them in football.

I can totally see this as their master plan, however. They've been FBS Indy for several years now and needed a conference home. The chips started falling in P5, then G5, and they saw their in! A conference on its last legs needing an interested school with a lot of money. Next, they needed more football schools. Liberty's current conference just happens to have several.

Now, more ASUN teams are/will be invited and all of a sudden, the votes are there to over rule WKU and invite EKU (who would be their closest CUSA foe to Lynchburg).

I dunno really. But, I just see Liberty as pulling most of the strings here. Of course, to set themselves up for CUSA domination in every sport until they are eventually invited to the ACC. Thus, fulfilling the mission to move from the Big South to P5.

Hooty is no one's little bro. KSU doesn't need Liberty's money. We already have Cobb County as our sugar daddy thank you very much. KSU will soon take control of this ship. Hooty is the captain now. The cultists need to sit back, shut up, and take their cues from the true Alpha of the conference.

[UNAPride]

Hooty is no one's little bro. KSU doesn't need Liberty's money. We already have Cobb County as our sugar daddy thank you very much. KSU will soon take control of this ship. Hooty is the captain now. The cultists need to sit back, shut up, and take their cues from the true Alpha of the conference.

Love it. xlolxxthumbsupx

[HootyHoo]

Love it. xlolxxthumbsupx

Hooty appreciates North Alabama's support. Your loyalty will be remembered when we move for the throne.

[FUBeAR]

Hooty doesn't have any insider info. But it seems every KSU alum/fan is hearing the same thing. That KSU is getting a new stadium and surrounding bars/restaurants/entertainment called Hooty World. All of this seems to be pretty far along in the process. The University wouldn't go before the board with a half baked idea.
Ah…very different than wild speculation. This claim rises all the way to the level of being a rumor. Impressive.

[HootyHoo]

Hate all you want Fubear. Hooty is focused on bigger and better things. Like making CUSA not suck. If one were to not consider Geographic footprint in CUSA's decisions. There is one school that pops out as a phenomenal candidate. The fightin' Blue Hens of Delaware. Tradition, Fanbase, Facilities. They have it all. This addition would change the trajectory and perception of the league.

[BisonFan02]

Hate all you want Fubear. Hooty is focused on bigger and better things. Like making CUSA not suck. If one were to not consider Geographic footprint in CUSA's decisions. There is one school that pops out as a phenomenal candidate. The fightin' Blue Hens of Delaware. Tradition, Fanbase, Facilities. They have it all. This addition would change the trajectory and perception of the league.

You guys can start by making KSU not suck first. Lower the bar a shade...it'll be easier.

[Daytripper]

Ursus, can we outlaw people posting in the third person??

[FUBeAR]

Ursus, can we outlaw people posting in the third person??
With appropriate grandfathering stipulations, FUBeAR thinks that is an excellent idea. He has noticed several imitators cropping up from time to time.

[JSUSoutherner]

Ursus, can we outlaw people posting in the third person??
JSUSoutherner supports this proposal.

[Libertine]

Ursus, can we outlaw people posting in the third person??

Libertine has actually decided to start posting in the fourth person. It sounds exactly like posting in the third person except that every post is written by his own clone.

[Professor Chaos]

Ursus, can we outlaw people posting in the third person??
Must be a southeastern thing like speed or bowling.

[JSUSoutherner]

Must be a southeastern thing like speed or bowling.

Of all the uniquely southern things you could have used for this post, you picked bowling?

I bet you also consider St Louis the deep south.

[Professor Chaos]

Of all the uniquely southern things you could have used for this post, you picked bowling?

I bet you also consider St Louis the deep south.
Are you trying to tell me "Alabama Man" isn't accurate?!?!?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrimMyOoEDA

[Mocs123]

Of all the uniquely southern things you could have used for this post, you picked bowling?

I bet you also consider St Louis the deep south.

I was unaware bowling was thought of as a southern thing. Also, St. Louis is not deep south....personally I think of it as more mid west but I'm sure Midwesterners don't agree with that either.

[clenz]

Of all the uniquely southern things you could have used for this post, you picked bowling?

I bet you also consider St Louis the deep south.
St Louis is the southern border of midwest. If you want me to specifically say upper midwest then fine, but once you get south of Highway 50 in Missouri (or I70 if you wish) you are southern.

I take far more issue to the idea that Ohio is Midwest than St. Louis.

[JSUSoutherner]

Are you trying to tell me "Alabama Man" isn't accurate?!?!?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrimMyOoEDA

Something tells me I should wait and watch this video after I leave the office for the day. xdrunkyx


I was unaware bowling was thought of as a southern thing. Also, St. Louis is not deep south....personally I think of it as more mid west but I'm sure Midwesterners don't agree with that either.I've literally never heard bowling called a southern thing.

[ElCid]

Of all the uniquely southern things you could have used for this post, you picked bowling?

I bet you also consider St Louis the deep south.

Yeah I was curious about that as well. I view it as more of a rust belt northern thing than southern. I don't know anyone who bowls. Now if his example entailed arguing over barbeque or something along those lines, it would have been better.

[ElCid]

I was unaware bowling was thought of as a southern thing. Also, St. Louis is not deep south....personally I think of it as more mid west but I'm sure Midwesterners don't agree with that either.

Well I lived just outside of St Louis for fours years. It ain't close to being "Southern."

[Professor Chaos]

How come no one is questioning speed being a southern/southeastern thing???

[ElCid]

How come no one is questioning speed being a southern/southeastern thing???

Because that is obvious?

[JSUSoutherner]

Yeah I was curious about that as well. I view it as more of a rust belt northern thing than southern. I don't know anyone who bowls. Now if his example entailed arguing over barbeque or something along those lines, it would have been better.
I didn't know anyone who bowls until I moved to Grand Rapids. So you're pretty on it with your Rust Belt assumption in my anecdotal experience.

[katss07]

Interesting article from Vannini of the Athletic, also a very reliable source. His info contradicts what Brown reported yesterday. Apparently EKU and Tarleton remain CUSA’s top options, with McNeese and SFA “in the mix but lacking resources”. League considering going to 12.

Also details CUSA’s effort to reshape the league’s image and it’s impending media rights deal.

https://theathletic.com/3682027/2022/10/12/conference-usa-realignment-expansion-tv-football/?amp=1

[UNAPride]

Interesting article from Vannini of the Athletic, also a very reliable source. His info contradicts what Brown reported yesterday. Apparently EKU and Tarleton remain CUSA’s top options, with McNeese and SFA “in the mix but lacking resources”. League considering going to 12.

Also details CUSA’s effort to reshape the league’s image and it’s impending media rights deal.

https://theathletic.com/3682027/2022/10/12/conference-usa-realignment-expansion-tv-football/?amp=1

WKU president and C-USA board chair Tim Caboni said any notion or rumor that WKU would block EKU from joining the conference is “nonsense.”

xlolx

[JSUSoutherner]

WKU president and C-USA board chair Tim Caboni said any notion or rumor that WKU would block EKU from joining the conference is “nonsense.”

xlolx
Weird. Troy said something similar when the Sunbelt did their last expansion.

Granted we weren't ready to move at that point anyway.

[EKU05]

Oh, man. I totally expected him to come clean and close his statement with "Suck on that, Colonels!" I'm convinced...

[JSUSoutherner]

I'd heard some rumors that the new media deal would necessitate 12 members but it sounds like we'd actually be fine with 10.

So it seems we will end up with:

East:
Liberty
Jax
Kennesaw
MTSU
WKU


West:
FIU
LTU
Sam Houston
NMSU
UTEP

If I'm a Sam fan I'm throwing up in my mouth a little bit. But that east group is an excellent setup.

[katss07]

I'd heard some rumors that the new media deal would necessitate 12 members but it sounds like we'd actually be fine with 10.

So it seems we will end up with:

East:
Liberty
Jax
Kennesaw
MTSU
WKU


West:
FIU
LTU
Sam Houston
NMSU
UTEP

If I'm a Sam fan I'm throwing up in my mouth a little bit. But that east group is an excellent setup.
No it isn’t, it sucks almost as bad as the west.

[JSUSoutherner]

No it isn’t, it sucks almost as bad as the west.

The only game in the east that isn't a bus trip is Liberty.

You could throw a rock from Jacksonville, skip it off MTSU, and hit WKU. You could blowout a birthday candle in Jacksonville from Kennesaw.

Its a much tighter footprint than the ASun-WAC currently is for us. Makes it easier to travel to games. Makes it easier to develop rivalries. Makes for better football.

[clenz]

But that east group is an excellent setup.
Define excellent.

[UNAPride]

I'd heard some rumors that the new media deal would necessitate 12 members but it sounds like we'd actually be fine with 10.

So it seems we will end up with:

East:
Liberty
Jax
Kennesaw
MTSU
WKU


West:
FIU
LTU
Sam Houston
NMSU
UTEP

If I'm a Sam fan I'm throwing up in my mouth a little bit. But that east group is an excellent setup.


I hope they stick with 10. UNA isn't ready and I'm just not into Judy and CUSA as an alum or fan.

[JSUSoutherner]

I hope they stick with 10. UNA isn't ready and I'm just not into Judy and CUSA as an alum or fan.
Y'all could just move all your home games to Trash Panda stadium.

[UNAPride]

Y'all could just move all your home games to Trash Panda stadium.

LOL. Not a fan of that either. :D

I'm just not interested in my alma mater having to try to match up with Liberty's budget and facilities. We've seen how that is in the ASUN for Olympic sports. I can't image trying to match up in FBS football.

Their funds are unlimited basically.

[Mocs123]

I agree the east looks good from a geographical and potential rivalry standpoint to me. I mean, they're probably not sending anyone to the Playoffs, but to be fair the P5 wants to keep the G5 out of the playoffs anyways. Look at what UCF did for two years and they still didn't let them in.

The west looks well........

[Professor Chaos]

Define excellent.
Well, when you're coming from being a geographic outlier in the OVC with no natural in-conference rivals you can probably use that term pretty loosely. xlolx

[JSUSoutherner]

I agree the east looks good from a geographical and potential rivalry standpoint to me. I mean, they're probably not sending anyone to the Playoffs, but to be fair the P5 wants to keep the G5 out of the playoffs anyways. Look at what UCF did for two years and they still didn't let them in.

The west looks well........
Anyone moving up from FCS with the intention of going to the CFP is missing the boat.

I have no delusions that Jax State will ever sniff a CFP appearance. Even JMU has next to no chance. Like you said even UCF and Cincinnati (which are both basically P5 programs anyway) had to both move mountains to even get into the conversation.

The way I see it, if Jacksonville State can come into the FBS, rekindle some old rivalries, start some new ones, and be competitive for the conference title and a nice bowl game against a middling SEC west team in the Birmingham Bowl. I can live with that.

One of the things I've realized over the past little while is that I just could not care less about our regular season slate.

The only regular season games I truly cared about were the games we had with you guys back when y'all had Huesman and they were spectacular fun to watch and be at. And the Kennesaw games that were the same thing even though we may have been on the other end of the stick. Those were about it. Nobody in our fanbase cares about a regular season game vs Murray State or Nicholls. For us, the regular season has largely just been a necessary step taken to get to the postseason where there were no stakes because we were blowing teams out be 40 every week.

I'd rather have games against Troy, Georgia Southern, and other regional rivals where the games get to matter and people recognize the schools we play for reasons other than "they're in our conference and we will beat them by 45 like every other year".

The OVC provided no challenge to us in the regular season.

The ASun only provided a challenge last year because of Grass and since then it's taken us giving the ball away 5 times to get a competitive game.

I want to be able to look forward to the regular season again and not just be sitting around watching blowouts all season waiting for our chance to maybe draw a good game in the playoffs.

Does that mean the ceiling now is a CUSA championship and a Birmingham Bowl Bid rather than a National Championship?

Yup. And that's fine by me personally as long as we come out and compete for it.

[katss07]

I’d bet 90% of people who go to JSU games couldn’t tell you the classification difference between WKU and EKU

[POD Knows]

Yeah I was curious about that as well. I view it as more of a rust belt northern thing than southern. I don't know anyone who bowls. Now if his example entailed arguing over barbeque or something along those lines, it would have been better.It is a rust belt, kind of midwest deal and usually involves Polacks or some other eastern European clan types.

[Mocs123]

I’d bet 90% of people who go to JSU games couldn’t tell you the classification difference between WKU and EKU

Chattanooga fans are no different. If you're not in the SEC you're D2.

[Daytripper]

Chattanooga fans are no different. If you're not in the SEC you're D2.

Same with Sam Houston fans. Don't let anybody try to tell you different. As for what JSUSoutherner said about playing a bowl game against a middling SEC or Big 12 team, I am okay with that. But, I think we are still not through with the seismic shifts that are coming. The semi-pro conferences will eventually break away and become what they already are...just brand names. Not real student athletes. They need to quit pretending. If (when) that happens the G5 schools that are left can reimagine a playoff system similar to the FCS. If they have the foresight and b*lls.

[katss07]

Chattanooga fans are no different. If you're not in the SEC you're D2.
I think this could be a blanket statement for any school across the south.

[clenz]

Well, when you're coming from being a geographic outlier in the OVC with no natural in-conference rivals you can probably use that term pretty loosely. xlolx
touche

[JSUSoutherner]

Same with Sam Houston fans. Don't let anybody try to tell you different. As for what JSUSoutherner said about playing a bowl game against a middling SEC or Big 12 team, I am okay with that. But, I think we are still not through with the seismic shifts that are coming. The semi-pro conferences will eventually break away and become what they already are...just brand names. Not real student athletes. They need to quit pretending. If (when) that happens the G5 schools that are left can reimagine a playoff system similar to the FCS. If they have the foresight and b*lls.
If the B10 and SEC want to go off and leave the rest of us to be the new second level, then Sam and Jax are going to look like geniuses for getting in with the crowd early.

I'm good with either honestly. If we end up in bowl games. Cool. If we end up in a new and improved version of the FCS, also cool.

At the end of the day, I'm just glad we have an administration that is willing to at least try to climb the ladder. We may not be making a huge movement upwards. But at least we are moving upwards at all rather than toiling away in the OVC beating Lindenwood senseless year in and year out.

[MUMD]

Chattanooga fans are no different. If you're not in the SEC you're D2.

Y'all are so right. When people ask me (in Savannah, 30 miles from Statesboro) what conference Mercer is in I usually have to reply "SoCon", then add the qualifier "you know the conference Georgia Southern used to be in."