Can the East Coast support a new FCS conference?

[Smendy]

Folks, I was thinking about this about while I was clicking back and forth between the Temple and Penn game:

Every part of the nation has a "mid-major" FBS Conference, except the East xeyebrowx

The Midwest has the MAC!!!!.....The Southern States have the Sun Belt, even Conference USA......The West has the WAC and (to a lesser extent) the Mountain West.

But were do the Eastern FCS Schools go (i.e. Massachusetts) if they want to go 1-A?

I feel a "potential" East Coast based mid-major conference can definitely recruit Temple and Buffalo from the MAC (MAC can add Southern Ill. to replace them)....

After that, I think a new conference might be able to add Marshall and Massachusetts would be a natural fit, as they want to go 1-A.

So you got Temple, Buffalo, Massachusetts and (maybe) Marshall...but were would the other schools come from?

Could New Hampshire make the jump?

How about Delaware?

How about stealing Fla. Atlantic and Florida Int'l from the Sun Belt?

Would Hofstra consider this?

How about Appalachian State or James Madison?



Just wondering....xcoffeex

[Seawolf97]

Dont forget Army . They could be competitive in a conference like this. This subject though has been spoken at length by many on this board. The thought was a new FCS conference - such as the AE or bring back a modified Yankee Conference- with new up and coming teams such as Stonybrook, Albany and Central Conn. State along with teams from the CAA.
Still alot of potential for change in the next few years.

[FCS Go!]

This year at least the East Coast does have a mid-major- its called the Big East! xpeacex

[UNHWildCats]

UNH wont go FBS.... There just isnt the potential for attendance for games.

Not to mention money to build a new stadium

[Smendy]

Dont forget Army . They could be competitive in a conference like this. This subject though has been spoken at length by many on this board. The thought was a new FCS conference - such as the AE or bring back a modified Yankee Conference- with new up and coming teams such as Stonybrook, Albany and Central Conn. State along with teams from the CAA.
Still alot of potential for change in the next few years.


Good points Seawolf.....forgot about Army, they would be a natural fit.

Yea, I actually thought about the old Yankee Conference.....I guess the Ivy League schools are 100% off limits, because they will never award scholarships...I've seen both Stonybrook and Central on TV. Both have impressive upstart programs, but you wonder if they could get the staduims and crowds to qualify?

I know Central a little better and they'd have a real tough finding a suitable place to play, unless they went to Rentschler Field.

Thanks for the replies.

[GaSouthern]

East Carolina University is looking for a conference like this already :)

[gr8ness97]

you mean FBS conference?

[Fresno St. Alum]

If UMass went up they would just go to the MAC.

I do love the idea of AEC football. I hope it happens and that CCSU becomes a full member of the AEC.
UNH
Maine
Stony Brook
Albany
CCSU
URI (fb only)
UMass (fb only)

[RadMann]

I don't see UD wanting to go to the FBS. A place like UD supports the team very well and the lower end FBS conferences are really not much above the FCS to begin with.

[UMass922]

I wouldn't want UMass to make the jump to FBS unless it was to a BCS conference (namely the Big East), but the MAC would be the likeliest mid-major home. I seriously hope that never happens, though. I'd much rather play schools like UNH and Delaware and compete for the FCS title than play a bunch of Directional Michigans and schools in Ohio for, at best, a trip to a .com Bowl.

[SirApp]

Folks, I was thinking about this about while I was clicking back and forth between the Temple and Penn game:

Every part of the nation has a "mid-major" FBS Conference, except the East xeyebrowx

The Midwest has the MAC!!!!.....The Southern States have the Sun Belt, even Conference USA......The West has the WAC and (to a lesser extent) the Mountain West.

But were do the Eastern FCS Schools go (i.e. Massachusetts) if they want to go 1-A?

I feel a "potential" East Coast based mid-major conference can definitely recruit Temple and Buffalo from the MAC (MAC can add Southern Ill. to replace them)....

After that, I think a new conference might be able to add Marshall and Massachusetts would be a natural fit, as they want to go 1-A.

So you got Temple, Buffalo, Massachusetts and (maybe) Marshall...but were would the other schools come from?

Could New Hampshire make the jump?

How about Delaware?

How about stealing Fla. Atlantic and Florida Int'l from the Sun Belt?

Would Hofstra consider this?

How about Appalachian State or James Madison?



Just wondering....xcoffeex

Ok, if you're talking about making a new FBS conference, then this would be horrible for the schools involved (namely the FCS schools jumping up).

Let's take 10 of the teams you have chosen:

Temple
Buffalo
Marshall
FIU
FAU
UMass
UNH
App State
JMU
Delaware

You're taking two of the bottom teams of the Sun Belt, a horrible indy team, and a bad Marshall team. Mix that in with the FCS teams (which in the eyes of the media and coaches means they are awful, although we all know this not to be true), and you have a conference that makes the Sun Belt look like the SEC. That conference would never get any respect.

[UMass922]

Ok, if you're talking about making a new FBS conference, then this would be horrible for the schools involved (namely the FCS schools jumping up).

Let's take 10 of the teams you have chosen:

Temple
Buffalo
Marshall
FIU
FAU
UMass
UNH
App State
JMU
Delaware

You're taking two of the bottom teams of the Sun Belt, a horrible indy team, and a bad Marshall team. Mix that in with the FCS teams (which in the eyes of the media and coaches means they are awful, although we all know this not to be true), and you have a conference that makes the Sun Belt look like the SEC. That conference would never get any respect.

Agreed. I wouldn't want any part of that.

[bkrownd]

If UMass went up they would just go to the MAC.


This has been discussed to death for over a decade. Joining the MAC makes no sense at all. It would be a recipe to lose money like crazy. Not gonna happen.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

I wouldn't want UMass to make the jump to FBS unless it was to a BCS conference (namely the Big East), but the MAC would be the likeliest mid-major home. I seriously hope that never happens, though. I'd much rather play schools like UNH and Delaware and compete for the FCS title than play a bunch of Directional Michigans and schools in Ohio for, at best, a trip to a .com Bowl.


I always pains me to agree with anything UMass...But when you're right you're right.xthumbsupx

[AppMan]

The Mid Atlantic Seaboard Conference

Core Group
ASU - 14,800 students, 23,500 stadium (by 2009)
UD - 20,400 students, 22,000 stadium
GSU - 16,500 students, 18,000 stadium
JMU - 15,500 students, 15,000 stadium
ODU - 20,800 students, 20,000 stadium

Potential Members -
Guidelines: Medium size state university, football facility 15,000+ or the potential to grow to that number, solid facilities for all other sports, location, location, location. State your case.

CCU - 8,300 students and growing, 6,500 stadium (expandable to 20,000+)
Located in the heart of the hottest tourist destination on the East Coast. New basketball facility in the plans, excellent baseball facility and others are more than adequate.

others???

[Smendy]

Ok, if you're talking about making a new FBS conference, then this would be horrible for the schools involved (namely the FCS schools jumping up).

Let's take 10 of the teams you have chosen:

Temple
Buffalo
Marshall
FIU
FAU
UMass
UNH
App State
JMU
Delaware

You're taking two of the bottom teams of the Sun Belt, a horrible indy team, and a bad Marshall team. Mix that in with the FCS teams (which in the eyes of the media and coaches means they are awful, although we all know this not to be true), and you have a conference that makes the Sun Belt look like the SEC. That conference would never get any respect.

Thanks for all the replies....By the way, I did mean "FBS"....It was much easier to type back in the 1-a/1-aa days xlolx

Honestly, I have to respectfully disagree that those 10 would be worse than Sun Belt. In time, if tweaked a bit, it could rival the MAC.

But these are all good points. Great debate.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

A big issue rarely brought up with regards to CAA teams is that it is really a basketball conference. The revenue is so much higher, or at least positive, from basketball. Mason going to the Final 4 and VCU taking down Duke and the historical upsets in the Tourney keep the conference alive and well and much more respected than any respect for our football teams.

Because of the relationships, rivalries and travel concerns, it makes no sense whatsoever to break up the CAA from those that could create an FBS conference and those that cannot.

Yet on the proposed conference, I think respect would be gained instantly by playing an "All I-A schedule". The teams would be deeper and much better than they currently are. Remember, most fans of college football only see through I-A colored glasses. Perceptions for most fans are usually biased and ignorant.

In the meantime, many of these schools will continue to build their programs, facilities etc. in preparation of a possible move one day down the road. Due to this I think there is a growing disparity between the good and the bad at the FCS level.

[BearsCountry]

If UMass went up they would just go to the MAC.

I do love the idea of AEC football. I hope it happens and that CCSU becomes a full member of the AEC.
UNH
Maine
Stony Brook
Albany
CCSU
URI (fb only)
UMass (fb only)

Its a shame Boston U still doesnt play football, they still need an 8th member IMO, I really dont know who though. Nova or Richmond makes sense but I doubt they would leave the CAA. I guess maybe Delaware State since there always seems to be rumblings about them.

[henfan]

A big issue rarely brought up with regards to CAA teams is that it is really a basketball conference. The revenue is so much higher, or at least positive, from basketball.

That's completely wrong misconception. Most CAA teams lose money on men's basketball (see EADA reports for verification.)

In terms of national prominence, I'll agree that MBB is the sport for which the CAA has been historically known. Then again, the conference has played football for exactly 8 weeks.xeyebrowx

[ButlerGSU]

If App State went with us I believe GSU fans would really be interested in joining a conference like this. Delaware could also join along with ECU, perhaps GA State (one day), Jacksonville St, Marshall, etc...

[89Hen]

I don't see UD wanting to go to the FBS. A place like UD supports the team very well and the lower end FBS conferences are really not much above the FCS to begin with.
xnodx I certainly don't want UD to go anywhere. I love it here. xnodx xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

Let's take 10 of the teams you have chosen:

Temple
Buffalo
Marshall
FIU
FAU
UMass
UNH
App State
JMU
Delaware

:pumpuke: except for the UMass, UNH, AppSt and JMU part. xsmiley_wix xthumbsupx

[EKU05]

This year at least the East Coast does have a mid-major- its called the Big East! xpeacex

Too bad the Big East has spent most of the year with literally half of the league in the top 25...a feat that no other conference has accomplished for even one single week of the season. The BE has only one truly terrible team, and that's Syracuse.

As far as a new FCS conference...this gets thrown out there from time to time, and if you were living in a football only world it very well might work. But here is the bottom line...

The reason that this hasn't already been done, or at least a big part of it, is related more to basketball. When you form a new conference you generally have to wait five years for your league to be awarded an NCAA tournament auto-bid...and for a conference made up of the schools being thrown around here that would be detrimental. There are issues to deal with in other sports as well. The multi-sport nature of a conference makes it more complicated than simply getting together a group of FCS schools that want to make the jump.

[henfan]

When you form a new conference you generally have to wait five years for your league to be awarded an NCAA tournament auto-bid...and for a conference made up of the schools being thrown around here that would be detrimental. There are issues to deal with in other sports as well. The multi-sport nature of a conference makes it more complicated than simply getting together a group of FCS schools that want to make the jump.

Yup. While forming a conference is not as complicated as splitting atoms, it's also not as easy as some would have us believe. When it gets to the level of having Presidents & Boards of Trustees/Regents involved, academic & financial aspects necessarily take precedent. That's why some of the scenarios that are regularly thrown out there for message board fodder, while they make perfect sense from the football standpoint, are highly unlikely. The world of higher ed doesn't always revolve around college football.

[DFW HOYA]

As far as a new FCS conference...this gets thrown out there from time to time, and if you were living in a football only world it very well might work.

To get this topic back onto I-AA/FCS and not the bowl schools, this question: excepting the MAAC football schools, there are eleven (corrected) Eastern schools playing football outside its "home" conference. If you want to create or expand an existing conference, it has to start here and not by pulling teams out of all-sports conference relationships, nor by dipping into the D-II ranks.

Who are they?

Albany
Duquesne
Fordham
Georgetown
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Richmond
Rhode Island
Stony Brook
Villanova

[BearsCountry]

To get this topic back onto I-AA/FCS and not the bowl schools, this question: excepting the MAAC football schools, there are ten Eastern schools playing football outside its "home" conference. If you want to create or expand an existing conference, it has to start here and not by pulling teams out of all-sports conference relationships, nor by dipping into the D-II ranks.

Who are they?

Albany
Duquesne
Fordham
Georgetown
Maine
New Hampshire
Richmond
Rhode Island
Stony Brook
Villanova

You forgot about UMass.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

To get this topic back onto I-AA/FCS and not the bowl schools, this question: excepting the MAAC football schools, there are eleven (corrected) Eastern schools playing football outside its "home" conference. If you want to create or expand an existing conference, it has to start here and not by pulling teams out of all-sports conference relationships, nor by dipping into the D-II ranks.

Who are they?

Albany
Duquesne
Fordham
Georgetown
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Richmond
Rhode Island
Stony Brook
Villanova

Which begs the question why didn't the A-10 continue to sponsor a football league after Northeastern joined the CAA? They had five (bold) of these schools in their all sports roster along with three (blue) as affiliates. I can't help but think that UMass and Richmond were interested enough in this type of league; otherwise, wouldn't the A-10 have pursued a revamped football league while they still held the auto-bid? xconfusedx

JMHO, but the A-10 would have had a significantly better opportunity to create a new Eastern FCS League than America East does. For example, the A-10 could have mandated Richmond participate. AE can not do this. With Richmond on board, the A-10 would have had a better chance of keeping Villanova than the AE would have attracting them.

To me, this is just another example of how the A-10 really didn't care enough about football. And another example of just how difficult it will be to form a viable AE Football League.

FWIW, I don't think Fordham or Georgetown are candidates for a new league as they appear quite content in the Patriot League.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

That's completely wrong misconception. Most CAA teams lose money on men's basketball (see EADA reports for verification.)

In terms of national prominence, I'll agree that MBB is the sport for which the CAA has been historically known. Then again, the conference has played football for exactly 8 weeks.xeyebrowx

Well, in terms of JMU - we are right now really crappy in basketball, few fans, and amassed about 12 or so wins over the last 3 years. However, in football we have been selling out our stadium. The report you alluded to for JMU 2005-2006 shows:

Expenses:
$1.576 million for basketball
$4.208 million for football

Revenues:
$1.506 revenue for 300 rpi basketball (barely in the hole)
$3.407 for nationally ranked I-AA football (about a million in the hole)

Net loss is less for a crappy basketball program than it is for good FCS football as I see it. I don't have the time to look at each school, but football is much more expensive than basketball. Also, residuals from winning tournament games get spread over the entire conference from the NCAA tourney wins. That is, Mason in the final 4 gave all 12 schools more revenue for future seasons. Does winning the FCS Div-I title do that? If so, it certainly isn't the millions that comes from CBS television contracts with the NCAA.

[BearsCountry]

Which begs the question why didn't the A-10 continue to sponsor a football league after Northeastern joined the CAA? They had five (bold) of these schools in their all sports roster along with three (blue) as affiliates. I can't help but think that UMass and Richmond were interested enough in this type of league; otherwise, wouldn't the A-10 have pursued a revamped football league while they still held the auto-bid? xconfusedx

JMHO, but the A-10 would have had a significantly better opportunity to create a new Eastern FCS League than America East does. For example, the A-10 could have mandated Richmond participate. AE can not do this. With Richmond on board, the A-10 would have had a better chance of keeping Villanova than the AE would have attracting them.

To me, this is just another example of how the A-10 really didn't care enough about football. And another example of just how difficult it will be to form a viable AE Football League.

FWIW, I don't think Fordham or Georgetown are candidates for a new league as they appear quite content in the Patriot League.

That's a very good question.

[FCS Go!]

Too bad the Big East has spent most of the year with literally half of the league in the top 25...a feat that no other conference has accomplished for even one single week of the season. The BE has only one truly terrible team, and that's Syracuse.

As far as a new FCS conference...this gets thrown out there from time to time, and if you were living in a football only world it very well might work. But here is the bottom line...

The reason that this hasn't already been done, or at least a big part of it, is related more to basketball. When you form a new conference you generally have to wait five years for your league to be awarded an NCAA tournament auto-bid...and for a conference made up of the schools being thrown around here that would be detrimental. There are issues to deal with in other sports as well. The multi-sport nature of a conference makes it more complicated than simply getting together a group of FCS schools that want to make the jump.

Re: my Big East smack. I guess my definition of mid-major for FBS is "no chance for any team in the conf. to win the NC". That fits the Big East this year.

Good point on the basketball tie-in to conf. affiliation. No one wants to hamper a major PR generating sport for the mere possibility of a more favorable situation in another sport.

[appfan2008]

something will happen for sure... but i dont see major changes any time soon

[henfan]

Net loss is less for a crappy basketball program than it is for good FCS football as I see it. I don't have the time to look at each school, but football is much more expensive than basketball.

If you did, the results would be eye opening, especially if you examined them over the long term. CAA MBB has typically not been a money maker for the overwhelming majority of schools who participate. (FTR, JMU made money on both FB and MBB in 2004/2005, as did Delaware- the only two CAA teams to make money on the sports.) Granted, I-AA/FCS FB is typically a money maker either, which gets back to the original point... CAA MBB, while still incredibly important, is not a profitable venture, nor is it any longer the conference-defining sport you seem to think it still is. That profile went out the door went out the door when FB entered the equation.


Also, residuals from winning tournament games get spread over the entire conference from the NCAA tourney wins... Does winning the FCS Div-I title do that?

Revenue from FCS playoff participation is not shared, as the NCAA's intent is to conduct a self-sustaining tournament. However, home teams who draw well can make money- and lots of it- on home playoff games.

The net results for each CAA team resulting from MBB tournament money is negligable and still obviously not enough to stave off teams losing money on the sport.

Don't misunderstand me. MBB success is still critical to the CAA. The sport just doesn't singularly define the conference any longer.xthumbsupx

[Brad82]

Rhody is dropping to JV and scheduling Bryant.
Will post link.

[henfan]

Rhody is dropping to JV and scheduling Bryant.
Will post link.

IMO, since Bryant is joining they NEC, there's little reason URI shouldn't schedule them. URI, Brown & Bryant could have a nice round-robin going for the mythical Ocean State Championship.xthumbsupx

[danefan]

We'll see what type of team Bryant has this weekend. They take on Stony Brook. Should be a good relative comparison.

[Syntax Error]

Re: my Big East smack. I guess my definition of mid-major for FBS is "no chance for any team in the conf. to win the NC". That fits the Big East this year.Then all FBS is mid-major because none have a chance to win a D-I NC unless they join FCS. xnodx