Regionally speaking... CAA or SoCon? Who has the better conference

[appstate38]

One of our JMU fans posted on the SoCon Big 3 thread that the CAA was the better conference and for the most part his comments were overlooked. So lets get is started. Their opinion is that the CAA is the FCS equal to the mighty SEC. Granted lots of good teams. Let the trash talking begin...

[89Hen]

Right now people aroung the country are screaming.... NOOOOOOOO! Not this again. :p

[appstate38]

Right now people aroung the country are screaming.... NOOOOOOOO! Not this again. :p

That's why I limited it to the region!

[appfan2008]

This year the CAA may be better... (still to be seen)

but historically the SOCON is the better conference

[89Hen]

This year the CAA may be better... (still to be seen)

but historically the SOCON is the better conference
Agreed... as long as we can say prior to 1998ish as the historical part. Marshall leaves the SoCon, and UMass beats GSU for the NC... the two conferences have been pretty even since.

[ChickenMan]

but historically the SOCON is the better conference

No brainer... CAA all the way. This is the first time in recent memory.. that the SoCon may have produced more than three good teams in the same year.

[henfan]

Top to bottom, there just isn't any comparison and hasn't been in this decade. The CAA is just a more balanced/competitively demanding conference than the SoCon.

OTOH, the top 1 or 2 in the SoCon have tended to be a little stronger than the top 1 or 2 in the CAA. Historically, the SoCon is also the more competitively sound conference, top to bottom.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

It's hard to say when the CAA teams don't play every other team - that might make them deeper - don't know about better --- The SoCon teams that enter the playoffs have played the same conference schedule whereas like this season UMass doesn't play JMU nor Delaware (the last 2 CAA NCs) - Are they better - who knows?

[bluehenbillk]

The SoCon is a great conference but has been extremely top-heavy as long as I can remember. There are much fewer weeks off in the CAA.

[89Hen]

It's hard to say when the CAA teams don't play every other team - that might make them deeper - don't know about better --- The SoCon teams that enter the playoffs have played the same conference schedule whereas like this season UMass doesn't play JMU nor Delaware (the last 2 CAA NCs) - Are they better - who knows?
Can work both ways. What about a team that may have to face JMU and UD in addition to UMass and UNH? That's a tough road to the playoffs and they may actually be a trememdous 7-4 team. xpeacex

[GannonFan]

Agreed... as long as we can say prior to 1998ish as the historical part. Marshall leaves the SoCon, and UMass beats GSU for the NC... the two conferences have been pretty even since.

This sums it up nicely - pretty even since 1998.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Can work both ways. What about a team that may have to face JMU and UD in addition to UMass and UNH? That's a tough road to the playoffs and they may actually be a trememdous 7-4 team.

Well that's my point - if everyone plays the same schedule then you don't have the what-ifs - I understand the CAA has too many teams to do this - And if you lose 4 conference games maybe you don't belong in the 8 at-large selections ---

[citdog]

It's called the SOUTHERN Conference, so of course it's BETTER!xlolx :D

[saint0917]

It's called the SOUTHERN Conference, so of course it's BETTER!xlolx :D

You thought the Gray Coats were better too, and look how that turned out. xlolx :p

[89Hen]

Well that's my point - if everyone plays the same schedule then you don't have the what-ifs - I understand the CAA has too many teams to do this - And if you lose 4 conference games maybe you don't belong in the 8 at-large selections ---
You have to look at the OCC games and playoff results to truly get a feel for conference strength anyway, so conference games have very little to do with this.

[GannonFan]

It's called the SOUTHERN Conference, so of course it's BETTER!xlolx :D

But we have your capital in Richmond. How about dem apples???? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I'm not so sure that the lower-tier programs in the Socon are as bad as people think they are. All of the teams in the Socon outside of "the big 3" have made the playoffs at least once except for our newest current member Elon, and their day could be coming up within the next few seasons.

The teams in the CAA benefit from not having to try and get out from under 3 teams that are almost constantly fielding top-10 quality teams. Just look at what Wofford was able to do in 2003 when hell froze over and GSU, ASU, and Furman all missed the playoffs. They were Delaware's biggest hurdle to the NC that year (okay, maybe they were really the biggest speed bump, but you get the idea). I think it's the fact that the CAA has put a greater variety of teams in the playoffs that people think that they are "more balanced" and "better top-to-bottom", but take a closer look at how the teams do once they get into the playoffs. The Socon has a much better record in the playoffs than the CAA does.

[citdog]

But we have your capital in Richmond. How about dem apples???? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx


where did Richmond, and William and Mary play in the 60's and 70's again?











oh yeah the SOCON.

[GannonFan]

I'm not so sure that the lower-tier programs in the Socon are as bad as people think they are. All of the teams in the Socon outside of "the big 3" have made the playoffs at least once except for our newest current member Elon, and their day could be coming up within the next few seasons.

The teams in the CAA benefit from not having to try and get out from under 3 teams that are almost constantly fielding top-10 quality teams. Just look at what Wofford was able to do in 2003 when hell froze over and GSU, ASU, and Furman all missed the playoffs. They were Delaware's biggest hurdle to the NC that year (okay, maybe they were really the biggest speed bump, but you get the idea). I think it's the fact that the CAA has put a greater variety of teams in the playoffs that people think that they are "more balanced" and "better top-to-bottom", but take a closer look at how the teams do once they get into the playoffs. The Socon has a much better record in the playoffs than the CAA does.

I'm sure 89 has the playoff records of the respective conferences since 1998 so maybe we'll see how different the playoff records really are. Of course, an argument could easily be made that having fewer teams in the playoffs can lead to better records - you don't see the fewer SoCon teams that make the playoffs having to travel all that much, and having homefield advantage, especially in the first round or two of the playoffs is a huge advantage.

[GannonFan]

where did Richmond, and William and Mary play in the 60's and 70's again?











oh yeah the SOCON.

So they improved their lot in life, what's your point??? xlolx xlolx xlolx

[89Hen]

I'm not so sure that the lower-tier programs in the Socon are as bad as people think they are. All of the teams in the Socon outside of "the big 3" have made the playoffs at least once except for our newest current member Elon, and their day could be coming up within the next few seasons....

Just look at what Wofford was able to do in 2003 when hell froze over and GSU, ASU, and Furman all missed the playoffs. They were Delaware's biggest hurdle to the NC that year (okay, maybe they were really the biggest speed bump, but you get the idea).
Not true at all on the WC front. Delaware had a MUCH tougher time going through the CAA schedule than the playoffs that year. We should have lost to UNH, could have easily lost to UMass, did lose to NU...

BTW, everyone in the CAA except Towson has been in the playoffs too and their day could be coming up sooner than Elon's. Furthermore, more of the CAA teams have been more recently than the SoCon teams (URI being the exception).

The Citadel - 1992
Chattanooga - 1984
Western Carolina - 1983

That's a lonnnnnng drought.

[CID1990]

The current capital of the Confederate States of America is Danville, VA.

[HensRock]

This is the first time in recent memory.. that the SoCon may have produced more than three good teams in the same year.

and which 4 would those be?

1. Wofford
2. Appalachian State
.
.
.
. The Citadel ?
.
.
.
. Elon ?

[89Hen]

I'm sure 89 has the playoff records of the respective conferences since 1998....
xlolx I was busy typing when you posted this. Too funny. :p

[89Hen]

Here are the last appearances....

AppSt - 2006
UMass - 2006
UNH - 2006
Furman - 2006
JMU - 2006
Richmond - 2005
Georgia Southern - 2005
W&M - 2004
Delaware - 2004
Wofford - 2003
Villanova - 2002
Maine - 2002
Northeastern - 2002
Hofstra - 2001

there's an obvious line here

The Citadel - 1992
URI - 1985
Chattanooga - 1984
Western Carolina - 1983
Towson - n/a
Elon - n/a

Blue and grey for your benefit Cit. xsmiley_wix

[citdog]

Here are the last appearances....

AppSt - 2006
UMass - 2006
UNH - 2006
Furman - 2006
JMU - 2006
Richmond - 2005
Georgia Southern - 2005
W&M - 2004
Delaware - 2004
Wofford - 2003
Villanova - 2002
Maine - 2002
Northeastern - 2002
Hofstra - 2001

there's an obvious line here

The Citadel - 1992
URI - 1985
Chattanooga - 1984
Western Carolina - 1983
Towson - n/a
Elon - n/a

Blue and grey for your benefit Cit. xsmiley_wix

thanks 89!

[UncleSam]

I'm not so sure that the lower-tier programs in the Socon are as bad as people think they are. All of the teams in the Socon outside of "the big 3" have made the playoffs at least once except for our newest current member Elon, and their day could be coming up within the next few seasons.

The teams in the CAA benefit from not having to try and get out from under 3 teams that are almost constantly fielding top-10 quality teams. Just look at what Wofford was able to do in 2003 when hell froze over and GSU, ASU, and Furman all missed the playoffs. They were Delaware's biggest hurdle to the NC that year (okay, maybe they were really the biggest speed bump, but you get the idea). I think it's the fact that the CAA has put a greater variety of teams in the playoffs that people think that they are "more balanced" and "better top-to-bottom", but take a closer look at how the teams do once they get into the playoffs. The Socon has a much better record in the playoffs than the CAA does.


I just did some quick checking so my math may not be 100%, but if not, it's very close:



The playoff records of the CAA and SoCon over the last 10 years (since '97)

SoCon - 32-20 - three titles - two different schools (ASU, GSU).. four playoff teams (GSU, FU, ASU, Wofford)


CAA - 35-23 - three titles - three different schools (UMass, UD, JMU) ten playoff teams (UD, UMass, JMU, Nova, W&M, UNH, Maine, Hofstra, N'eastern, Richmond).


Seems pretty clear to me that while the number of playoff wins and titles are similar the defining factor in favor of the CAA, is that over 83% of the CAA has made the playoffs in recent years.... while only 50% of the SonCon has made the post season.

[gophoenix]

But we have your capital in Richmond. How about dem apples???? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Richmond was only 1 of the 5 capitals.

[bluehenbillk]

Richmond was only 1 of the 5 capitals.


Is that because Sherman kept burning them down??

[HensRock]

The teams in the CAA benefit from not having to try and get out from under 3 teams that are almost constantly fielding top-10 quality teams. Just look at what Wofford was able to do in 2003 when hell froze over and GSU, ASU, and Furman all missed the playoffs. They were Delaware's biggest hurdle to the NC that year (okay, maybe they were really the biggest speed bump, but you get the idea). I think it's the fact that the CAA has put a greater variety of teams in the playoffs that people think that they are "more balanced" and "better top-to-bottom", but take a closer look at how the teams do once they get into the playoffs. The Socon has a much better record in the playoffs than the CAA does.

Yes and No. While the CAA does not have 3 teams that are always in the top 10, we do always have 3 teams in the top 10. I know that sounds confusing, but in other words, it's not always the same 3 teams, but the CAA always does have 3 teams in the top 10. We do right now and in fact have #11 as well. What the CAA DOES usually have that the SoCon does not, is 6 teams in the top 25 (as we do now). This is NOT unusual, in fact it's about average. In some years I can recall the A10 having 7 or even 8 teams ranked during the season.

Every team in the CAA ranks in the top half of the GPI as well. Rhode Island is the lowest at 55th out of 122 teams. If you don't care for the GPI, pick any reasonable index. You'll find that the lowest ranking team in the CAA is at least an average FCS team. The Great West is the only other conference that can claim this and there's only 5 of them (SUU is ranked 60th in GPI). This is not unusual either. It is true what they say - there are no week's off in the CAA.

I agree with you that the SoCon has a better track record in the playoffs and I think that might be due at least in part to the "seasoned veteran" effect. The SoCon "Big 3" have been there before, know what to expect, etc. and go about "business as usual". Sometimes a CAA team will get in there that has not been in a while and have no playoff experience on the roster.

[URMite]

Richmond was only 1 of the 5 capitals.

Yes, but are we the only one that still thinks there is a current capital and that we are it?

It took quite a while to get over the shock of leaving the Southern Conference and a few years later joining the Yankee (!!??!!) Conference.

Nowadays our student body looks like it did the same thing...xnonono2x

[ChickenMan]

I agree with you that the SoCon has a better track record in the playoffs

If you go back to the Marshall days and beyond.. that's true.. but not in recent years. The CAA actually has more playoff wins in the past ten seasons and is 9-6 vs the SoCon.. head to head.. during that time.

[appstate38]

Glad to see this spark some good fun natured debate. I would say as previously posted the the CAA is probably better top to bottom but I would also say that the top 2 or 3 teams in the SoCon are better than most of the CAA.

[Millwoch]

I too believe that at the present time, the CAA is the better conference. But it has been amazing to me to see the increase in talent level of the mid-tier SOCON school(especially on the offensive side of the ball). Every team is improving with the exception of Chatty/WCU. Elon used to be the door mat of the SOCON, but not anymore. We will know more about them in the next several weeks, as they play Wofford, FU, and Cit. Can the Socon get 3 teams in the playoffs this year? I doubt it...but maybe. It will take an Elon win over Wofford or a Cit over Appy in my opinion. How many from the CAA will make this year?

Wouldn't be great to take the conferences top to bottom and play each other head to head, 1 vs. 1, 2 vs. 2 from previous year finish. Too many other money games to be played and too much to lose if you are a 1 or 2 for that to happen, but it would be fun.

Don't forget we have a new door mat coming into the conference next year. Samford will struggle.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Last year I think the two best teams met in Chattanooga - UMass was clearly the best team I saw APP play all year - we also saw JMU but I must say the 2 teams I have seen that came into Boone that were better than I expected were both from the Big Sky - N.Ariz and Montana St.

[89Hen]

Wouldn't be great to take the conferences top to bottom and play each other head to head, 1 vs. 1, 2 vs. 2 from previous year finish. Too many other money games to be played and too much to lose if you are a 1 or 2 for that to happen, but it would be fun.

Don't forget we have a new door mat coming into the conference next year. Samford will struggle.
I've always wondered why conferences haven't done this in football. I think it would be great and could settle a lot of debates. Based on last year's standings...

UMass vs. AppSt
JMU vs. Furman
UNH vs. Wofford
Villanova vs. The Citadel
Maine vs. Elon
Towson vs. Chattanooga
Northeastern vs. Georgia Southern
Richmond vs. Western Carolina

Of course the bad news is that we'd be left out... but this should show you the incredible depth of the CAA... Delaware, Hofstra and W&M all waiting for Samford. :p