Crossroads of Ethics and Gamesmanship

[AlphaSigMD]

In light of App State's interesting medical situation involving the QB position, I'd like to pose a question to the AGS community regarding their thoughts on this weekends game with Georgia Southern.

First a little exposition:

If armanti is to play this weekend, as many think he will, he will likely not be at 100%. His much publicized injury has been a topic of conversation ever since the Michigan game. I'm sure this injury has not escaped even the most inept of scouting reports on ASU.

That said, Georgia Southern is a team in transition. New coach, new offense. A win at Kidd Brewer Stadium would certainly be magnanimous, if not season defining. Quite a way to jump start one's legacy at a new, celebrated school.

But at what cost? And now onto the question:

Would it be wrong for the Georgia Southern (or any team) defense to target Armanti's injured left arm and shoulder in hopes of taking him out for the game?

Here's my take: It's certainly not the ethical course of action, but likely one that will eventually find its way onto the field simply because it is easy to disguise. Shoulder shots are usually legal, and happen all the time to QB's. They happen much more often than say direct shots to the knee that are closely watched and flagged if unnecessary. This is not to say that GSU/ Coach Hatcher is a dirty program/coach, but more an indictment on the competetive human nature. Eventually, I feel if AE makes enough plays against any team(GSU or otherwise), the defense may get frustrated and individuals may begin targeting behavior. That is, to make sure he gets hit on the left, or if you hit him on the right, try to slam him to the ground on the left with the intention of hurting him.

In anticpation of possible arguments, I would like to add a corollary. I hope that GSU's defense comes to play, and that they play to their ability. This was never meant to suggest that "GSU should go easy on Edwards because he is hurt". My point is that I hope that they go after him the same way they would go after any other QB in the country, or more pointed, go after Edwards the same way they would if they didn't know he had a shoulder injury. If he gets hit in the left shoulder on an isolated play, and goes out, i've got no real problem with that from an ethical stance. However, I believe it will be unfortunate if he takes hit after hit after hit to this one isolated spot in the hopes of exploiting a weakness. We all agree that hard play is part of the game, and certainly one of the aspects that makes the game enjoyable, but in my opinion, going after a player with the specific intention to hurt or redamage a previous injury amounts to little more than base thuggery and assault.

Here's hoping for a great game.

[Eagle22]

I think if a head coach decides to put a player on the field in any circumstance, then they're fair game. Expect the opponent to play fair and within the rules ...

If on Saturday, you were to see GSU flagged for some late hits or extracurricular activity, I seriously doubt it would be direct correlation to the specific head-hunting you mentioned... instead, I'd attribute it to continued lack of discipline ... something that many Eagle fans have been discouraged with over the course of the past few seasons.

The GSU defense will be physical, and I expect them to approach this game with a do-or-die mentality the same as a season ago. Our season may very well hinge on the outcome of Saturday's game. ASU-GSU games are always a war ... in the trenches ... and are rarely one-sided affairs.

From my perspective, if Edwards is more susceptible than usual to re-injury, and he gets hurt during the course of play ... then ultimately that falls on the head coaches decision to play him... even more so when there is the luxury of having a backup who has performed quite well in numerous starts over the course of a few seasons.

[AZGrizFan]

The shoulder becomes a target. Much like a fighter will attack a cut on his opponent to worsen the damage. If he's not 100%, they're foolish to put him out there. They can beat GSU without Edwards. But if his season ends up being over, you can most likely kiss a three-peat goodbye.... xnodx xnodx xnodx

[JayJ79]

Defenders always love to hit QBs as hard as they can.
will they go out of their way to target an injured shoulder?
dunno.

There were a couple plays in the SIU/UNI game where it seemed like the SIU defenders put a little extra effort into popping Sanders (at least early in the game), and one was even flagged for roughing the passer.
But other than that play (early in the game), I didn't see anything too malicious. Not really anything to do with Edwards, but I think it falls into the same kind of topic.

[ASU88]

I don't know how many shots you're going to get at a player like AE where you have a chance to target a specific area to tackle. You are going to tackle however you need to by instinct.

Going after a particular shoulder would lead to missed tackles, which would hurt, rather than help, the defending team's chances.

The way AE plays he's going to get hit. If he can't take a hit on that shoulder he won't be playing long and they should just redshirt him.
I'm not one of those who feels that would end any chances ASU has of a nice, long run inthe playoffs ... or even the 3rd NC. The defense has been the issue, not the QB. They can get it done with Elder.

[MarkCCU]

The shoulder becomes a target. Much like a fighter will attack a cut on his opponent to worsen the damage. If he's not 100%, they're foolish to put him out there. They can beat GSU without Edwards. But if his season ends up being over, you can most likely kiss a three-peat goodbye.... xnodx xnodx xnodx

BRAVO! GOOD POST! xbowx xbowx xbowx

[mcveyrl]

The shoulder becomes a target. Much like a fighter will attack a cut on his opponent to worsen the damage. If he's not 100%, they're foolish to put him out there. They can beat GSU without Edwards. But if his season ends up being over, you can most likely kiss a three-peat goodbye.... xnodx xnodx xnodx

I agree with this and would also add that if I were a coach and Edwards was in, I would load up the right side on blitzes, not necessarily to go after Edwards' shoulder, but to get in his head.

The problem, as somebody pointed out, is that Edwards is not exactly John Elway. You load up the right side, he's probably scrambling to your left and you better hope you've got somebody spying him that can stop him.

[appheel]

I don't know how many shots you're going to get at a player like AE where you have a chance to target a specific area to tackle. You are going to tackle however you need to by instinct.

Going after a particular shoulder would lead to missed tackles, which would hurt, rather than help, the defending team's chances.

The way AE plays he's going to get hit. If he can't take a hit on that shoulder he won't be playing long and they should just redshirt him.
I'm not one of those who feels that would end any chances ASU has of a nice, long run inthe playoffs ... or even the 3rd NC. The defense has been the issue, not the QB. They can get it done with Elder.

I think that's all pretty accurate. I'm not too worried about the QB position, we have 2 experienced talented QBs. When you add CoCo into the picture, we're loaded at that position. If Armanti isn't 100%, he shouldn't play. It's too risky.

As for the ethics of going after Armanti, I think it's okay as long as the hits aren't dirty, i.e. out-of-bounds, late hits, etc. If you're willing to take a penalty just to hurt the QB, I have a problem with that. Otherwise, clean, hard hits are just a part of the game, which is why Armanti shouldn't play if they're worried about aggravating the injury.

[Cap'n Cat]

The shoulder becomes a target. Much like a fighter will attack a cut on his opponent to worsen the damage. If he's not 100%, they're foolish to put him out there. They can beat GSU without Edwards. But if his season ends up being over, you can most likely kiss a three-peat goodbye.... xnodx xnodx xnodx


Agreed.

Was tearing what is left of my hair out at the 2005 Championship Game because UNI wouldn't go after that limpin' mofo's gimpy-ass ankle!! One "unfortunate" hit low and hero boy would been "immediate surgery boy" and UNI woulda carried the flag home.


xmadx xmadx xmadx

[BlueHen86]

Sweep the leg.

[McNeese75]

If he is not 100% then why play him? Elder appears to be a comparable passer and mobile enough. If you put Armanti in for his running ability, he will get hit!!

It is being announced today that Steven Whitehead (McNeese preseason AA) will not be back this year due to the knee injury he sustained in the second game of the year. Steven is 5'6" and 170 lbs and if he is not 100%when it comes to being elusive and quick then there is no reason to play him. He does however still have his redshirt year and hopefully will return next year.

If Armanti steps on the field at this point in the season, does he lose the option to reshirt?

[blueballs]

If Edwards isn't healthy then he will almost certainly re-injure the shoulder and it won't be from a direct hit on it, but rather from being driven to the ground on it and a defender landing on top of him. It may even come as a hit after the release of a pass... happens all the time to QB's.

I have no problem with it as long as it is clean as that is a risk of playing football... again, as long as it is a clean play.

[FormerPokeCenter]

It's great that Edwards is a competitor, but the other kid is doing just fine. Go with him, either redshirt Edwards if he has one, or save him for the playoffs...

It's absolutely stupid to put a kid out there who's not sufficiently healed enough to protect himself...

There's no shortcut to rehabing a significant injury. The only thing that helps is the passage of time and plenty of hard work.

[walliver]

First, Edwards is not a helpless drop back passer, and defenders will be thankful if they can get to him and will worry about tackling him first (and probably will not be able to target the shoulder even if they wanted to - other than a blatant late hit).

On the other hand, when he aggravated his injury against Wofford, it was not reinjured by a blow. He was knocked down and landed on his shoulder.

I have not seen a definitive diagnosis of his injury, so it is hard to comment on the claim that he is 100%. But, you gotta get back on the field at some point, and this weekend is as good as any.

[eaglesrthe1]

Trying to avoid hitting a shoulder, either by contact or by the ground? You've got to be kidding. That's like trying to avoid hitting a rib. Just about any proper tackle would involve contact in that area.

[Go...gate]

If he plays, he will play as hard as he can and hold nothing back. The opposition honors the game and the injured player by playing as hard as they can as well - as Lombardi used to say, "cleanly, fairly, within the rules". If he takes a clean hit to the shoulder, that is part of the game.

[proasu89]

If Armanti steps on the field at this point in the season, does he lose the option to reshirt?

Yes, and the word is that he is good to go.

[ASU88]

Yes, and the word is that he is good to go.
Of course, that's not the first time we've heard that this season. :)