SoCon Big Three

[The Cats]

Conference parity or conference in decline?

What has happned to the SoCon "Big Three" (ASU, GSU, & FU) this year?

With the exception of ASU, the big three are no more, now it seems to be the BIG ONE - Wofford. What does this mean? has the middle teams of the conference caught up, or is the big three now just weaker?

[blur2005]

Conference parity or conference in decline?

What has happned to the SoCon "Big Three" (ASU, GSU, & FU) this year?

With the exception of ASU, the big three are no more, now it seems to be the BIG ONE - Wofford. What does this mean? has the middle teams of the conference caught up, or is the big three now just weaker?
I'm no SoCon expert but I would say Furman is just having an off year while Georgia Southern is still in the process of adjusting to a new identity. Wofford has been strong in the past and App State is...well, App State.

[catamount man]

Looks like the big 3 this season are ASU, The Citadel, and Elon.xeekx xthumbsupx

I'm happy for the Elon folks. Amazing what a coaching change can do to spark a program. Too bad we won't have that luxury this off season in Cullowhee.

GO CATS!!!

[Saint3333]

I was unaware the SoCon was just Wofford and then everyone else...

ASU is slightly down from last year, but improving weekly (still a legit top 5 team)

Wofford is fielding probably their best team ever, yes better than the semifinalist team.

Furman is down

GSU is still down, but better than the 2006 team

Citadel is fielding their best team since the early 90's

Elon is fielding their best team by FAR since joining the SoCon

UTC - not sure, but appear to be abover their average season

WCU - not good...

I think the bottom half of the conference sans WCU is much better than usual. This is the most parity I've seen in the SoCon in over 5 years.

[furman94]

Furman has everything this year; skill, talent, fans, expierence, everything but the coaches.

Guess I upset Somebody cause I just got alot of negative reps. Sorry?!

[UNHWildCats]

Looks like the big 3 this season are ASU, The Citadel, and Elon.xeekx xthumbsupx

I'm happy for the Elon folks. Amazing what a coaching change can do to spark a program. Too bad we won't have that luxury this off season in Cullowhee.

GO CATS!!!


ASU, Citadel and Elon??? xeekx xeekx xnonox xnonox xnonox No wonder they call it Woofed xlolx xlolx xlolx Man you just Woofed Wofford.

[ChickenMan]

I was unaware the SoCon was just Wofford and then everyone else...

ASU is slightly down from last year, but improving weekly (still a legit top 5 team)

Wofford is fielding probably their best team ever, yes better than the semifinalist team.

Furman is down

GSU is still down, but better than the 2006 team

Citadel is fielding their best team since the early 90's

Elon is fielding their best team by FAR since joining the SoCon

UTC - not sure, but appear to be abover their average season

WCU - not good...

I think the bottom half of the conference sans WCU is much better than usual. This is the most parity I've seen in the SoCon in over 5 years.


I'd say.. it's about friggin time!!!... :D

[catamount man]

ASU, Citadel and Elon??? xeekx xeekx xnonox xnonox xnonox No wonder they call it Woofed xlolx xlolx xlolx Man you just Woofed Wofford.

My apologies to Wofford fans. All these WCU losses are effecting me. Carry on!xthumbsupx

[appfan2008]

Conference parity or conference in decline?

What has happned to the SoCon "Big Three" (ASU, GSU, & FU) this year?

With the exception of ASU, the big three are no more, now it seems to be the BIG ONE - Wofford. What does this mean? has the middle teams of the conference caught up, or is the big three now just weaker?

how can you say the big one?

we lost to wofford on the road... ok

we are 5-1 beat michigan and are 2 time defending national champs if you werent sure...

the socon is not a big one conference right now

[furman94]

Were sorta like the SEC of FCS, WCU= Vandy

[ncguitarplyr]

how can you say the big one?

we lost to wofford on the road... ok

we are 5-1 beat michigan and are 2 time defending national champs if you werent sure...

the socon is not a big one conference right now


what he said

[dungeonjoe]

i posted this on another thread, but I remember in 2003 the talk that the SoCon was down-- and that was one of the reasons Wofford's star was so bright then.

I don't think this year as much that the big three are down (well, ok, Furman maybe) as the rest of the conference is catching up. I believe the Southern COnference over the next few years will be an exciting group to watch with all of the parity in the league. There will be a rotating big threexlolx

[Seven Would Be Nice]

I'd say less of a decline of "the big three" and more of a rise of the "bottom 5"... well a rise in at least 4 of them.

[APPride]

Conference parity or conference in decline?

What has happned to the SoCon "Big Three" (ASU, GSU, & FU) this year?

With the exception of ASU, the big three are no more, now it seems to be the BIG ONE - Wofford. What does this mean? has the middle teams of the conference caught up, or is the big three now just weaker?

As a 1st timer, gotta say hello to AGS! xnodx

Now about this Wofford thing and them being the BIG ONE. huh? Yeah, APP lost and it definately kicked the Terriers into high gear for the rest of the season...congrats to Wofford. It's just that by the time of the Wofford game APP was shot. worn out. a ripe target at that moment for anyone, much less Wofford, an excellent team who played tough in Boone last year.

I would challenge any FCS team to go to Michigan, win/dominate the way APP did and be thrust into what our team was subjected to media/fan/campus wise in the hours, days and weeks that followed. I am not sure the rest of the FCS nation understands just how intense this was. It was all good of course, but all of ASU was the walking dead by that Wofford game. I know I was exausted, and all I do is couch it and surf the net! Any one who has seriously followed APP these last two BACK 2 BACK #1 seasons has to admit we haven't been in several years as lackluster in concentration, tackling and execution as we were in that Wofford game (and still had a chance to pull it out!). With DJ on the cover of SI, CoCo as a freshman getting national attention, Armanti injured, Coach Moore being besieged by everyone, etc., all head swirling, distracting non stop stuff. HELL YEAH, I for one am gonna give the team a pass for the Wofford slip up.

HATS OFF to the TEAM as too how they have now returned to business. The team and the ASU coaching staff has done a tremendous job over the last 3 years playing one game at a time. Let's see how that works the rest of the year, instead of just giving the prize to Woffie.

Remember, APP is the 2 time defending NATIONAL CHAMPIONS, who have won it and DEFENDED it with style, then opened with a WIN @ THE BIG HOUSE, continuing a 15 game unbeaten streak that went to 17 and currently has a 30 game winning homestand!

That said, we got a game to play. the only game to play. the NEXT one. Let's go ASU!

[appstate38]

Welcome APPRIDE,

I think this thing runs in cycles. This is just one of those years to catch lightening in a bottle. Wofford has been off the charts this year and they deserve all the credit they are receiving. To me one season does not elevate you to Big 3 Status. They are going to have to string together several years of finishing at or near the top to get serious consideration. Honestly that goes for the other up start teams that are enjoying some great success in our league this year. BTW it is not a matter of respect. Your teams have earned that much.

[AppMan]

As a 1st timer, gotta say hello to AGS! xnodx

Now about this Wofford thing and them being the BIG ONE. huh? Yeah, APP lost and it definately kicked the Terriers into high gear for the rest of the season...congrats to Wofford. It's just that by the time of the Wofford game APP was shot. worn out. a ripe target at that moment for anyone, much less Wofford, an excellent team who played tough in Boone last year.

I would challenge any FCS team to go to Michigan, win/dominate the way APP did and be thrust into what our team was subjected to media/fan/campus wise in the hours, days and weeks that followed. I am not sure the rest of the FCS nation understands just how intense this was. It was all good of course, but all of ASU was the walking dead by that Wofford game. I know I was exausted, and all I do is couch it and surf the net! Any one who has seriously followed APP these last two BACK 2 BACK #1 seasons has to admit we haven't been in several years as lackluster in concentration, tackling and execution as we were in that Wofford game (and still had a chance to pull it out!). With DJ on the cover of SI, CoCo as a freshman getting national attention, Armanti injured, Coach Moore being besieged by everyone, etc., all head swirling, distracting non stop stuff. HELL YEAH, I for one am gonna give the team a pass for the Wofford slip up.

HATS OFF to the TEAM as too how they have now returned to business. The team and the ASU coaching staff has done a tremendous job over the last 3 years playing one game at a time. Let's see how that works the rest of the year, instead of just giving the prize to Woffie.

Remember, APP is the 2 time defending NATIONAL CHAMPIONS, who have won it and DEFENDED it with style, then opened with a WIN @ THE BIG HOUSE, continuing a 15 game unbeaten streak that went to 17 and currently has a 30 game winning homestand!

That said, we got a game to play. the only game to play. the NEXT one. Let's go ASU!

If ASU and Wofford both finish the season 10-1, ASU gets the higher seed and the Terriers will make a trip to Boone. The win at Michigan trumps the loss at Wofford w/o the starting QB and a lot of injured and beat up players. Even with all that adversity and turnovers, ASU still was in a position to win the game late in the 4th qtr. The Mountaineers are recovering from all those injuries, building momentum and are getting better and better with each passing week. I like what I see in the Apps right now.

[lizrdgizrd]

The SoCon is far from the big One this season. Wofford is certainly at the top of the heap at this point, but there are plenty of games left to be played.

App got a wakeup call against Wofford that has gotten the refocused.

GSU is making progress toward removing the bad aftertaste of He Who Must Not Be Named.

Furman is just having a bad season. It happens to everyone at one time or another.

As far as the "weak sisters" go, they're having a great time this season:

Citadel is fighting hard to prove they're a legitimate contender for both the SoCon title and the playoffs.

Elon is flexing it's offensive muscle and regardless of this season's final disposition are going to be contending in the near future (if not already).

Chattanooga is showing that you can never count a conference game as a win until the clock reads 0:00

As for Western, well what is there to say about Western? They just can't get it done.

[Seven Would Be Nice]

I would think woffs win over app would have more of an impact than the victory of app over michigan.

[lizrdgizrd]

I would think woffs win over app would have more of an impact than the victory of app over michigan.
I think Apps attendance numbers would have more impact than either. xeyebrowx

[Appdad]

I would think woffs win over app would have more of an impact than the victory of app over michigan.

As far as being in the drivers seat for the Socon championship and the NCAA automatic bid it sure has.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Give GSU a couple of seasons, and we will be back in it. We have been through so much crap between getting on probation and having Brian VanGorder basically tell us "hey I'm no offensive expert but we need to throw out your backyard offense and replace it with something more conventional, and I will hire offensive coaches laid off from the Sun Belt conference, for the Sun Belt is a conference that has a level of competition for which the puny Socon cannot hold a pinky too", we have a big mess to clean up.

The term "the Big three" refers to the fact that the Socon (IMO) has three of the 6 most prestigious programs in the FCS, and no other conference can say that they even have 2.

By the way, who coined the term "big 3", anyways?

[Appdad]

The term "the Big three" refers to the fact that the Socon (IMO) has three of the 6 most prestigious programs in the FCS, and no other conference can say that they even have 2.


Amenxsmiley_wix

[walliver]

Maybe it's time for the "Fantastic Four":)

[WoCoTerrier]

Maybe it's time for the "Fantastic Four":)

I don't think THEY will let us do that. xnonono2x

[Appdad]

I don't think THEY will let us do that. xnonono2x


um... within the Socon the "big 4" has been penned for several years.

[Seven Would Be Nice]

Maybe it's time for the "Fantastic Four":)

shotgun jessica. no challenge.

[WoCoTerrier]

um... within the Socon the "big 4" has been penned for several years.

Whether it has been penned or not, it is clearly not the belief.

[HaveFunKc]

Whether it has been penned or not, it is clearly not the belief.

Hmmmm... Now that offers an interesting daydream. Let's say the 'Big 4' go 9-2 for the next several years and meet in the semi-finals every year. That would change the belief, wouldn't you think? xthumbsupx

Ker-Smack!!!! Someone just slapped me out of my daydream... Back to the real world. xpopcornx

[terrierbob]

OK. We have the second or third best record in the SOCON over the past several years; we were "Woffed" in '02, won the conference in '03, and are playing lights out in '07. This means that three out of the past six years we have been at or near the top of the conference. I really don't give a rat's ass if others cling to the memories of the misty, halcyon days of the 80s and 90s. It's now, and we're in the mix. Big three, big four, who cares. I'm enjoying the hell out of our season.

[blur2005]

Were sorta like the SEC of FCS, WCU= Vandy
I'm gonna say that if any conference in FCS is like the SEC, it's the CAA and Rhode Island=Vandy.

[Appdad]

I'm gonna say that if any conference in FCS is like the SEC, it's the CAA and Rhode Island=Vandy.

Academically?

Not even close.

[drpnut]

Hey folks,

In this thread I still see folks not giving Wofford proper "props." I remind you all that the last five years Wofford has the 2nd best record, App. is first. So please quit holding on to "history." I think five years and this being the sixth is a pretty good "history." Please quit "hatin."

So at least is should be the Big 4. But it is obvious in tis 6 year span the top of the league is simple: Appy and Woffy.

GSU is back on the rise, but if Furman doesn't so something quick to "right the ship," I envision them being down for at leat another year.

The Citadel appears to be on the up. And Elon is having a good year, but we have to wait another yer or so to see if it is "flash in the pan."

And to my App brother who thinks App will get a seed over Wofford if both finish 10-1. Well... seeing that Wofford has ben "hosed" at least twice in the last five years, that probably could happen... but there is no way App would deserve it if they can't win the SoCon title. Period.

Holla.

[blueballs]

Hey folks,

In this thread I still see folks not giving Wofford proper "props." I remind you all that the last five years Wofford has the 2nd best record, App. is first. So please quit holding on to "history." I think five years and this being the sixth is a pretty good "history." Please quit "hatin."

So at least is should be the Big 4. But it is obvious in tis 6 year span the top of the league is simple: Appy and Woffy.
GSU is back on the rise, but if Furman doesn't so something quick to "right the ship," I envision them being down for at leat another year.

The Citadel appears to be on the up. And Elon is having a good year, but we have to wait another yer or so to see if it is "flash in the pan."

And to my App brother who thinks App will get a seed over Wofford if both finish 10-1. Well... seeing that Wofford has ben "hosed" at least twice in the last five years, that probably could happen... but there is no way App would deserve it if they can't win the SoCon title. Period.

Holla.

GSU has won 2 conference titles in that 6 year span, despite all the self inflicted turmoil in the program, still has the third most wins in the nation in the past 8 years (per SportsSouth Sat.) and still averages anywhere from 16,000-21,000 per game in attendance... just to give some perspective.

[ChickenMan]

Academically?

Not even close.


right.. the graduation rate for CAA football players is far better than both the SEC and the SoCon... ;)

[lizrdgizrd]

I don't think THEY will let us do that. xnonono2x

Who? Marvel Comics? xlolx

[The Moody1]

I would think woffs win over app would have more of an impact than the victory of app over michigan.


That must be why Wofford is currently ranked ahead of App, woops, their not.:D If both teams finish 10-1 and meet in the play-offs the game will be in Boone.

[The Cats]

...... just to give some perspective.

Just to give some perspective, other than beat WCU what have you done in the last two years??????

[Death Dealer]

Hey folks,

In this thread I still see folks not giving Wofford proper "props." I remind you all that the last five years Wofford has the 2nd best record, App. is first. So please quit holding on to "history." I think five years and this being the sixth is a pretty good "history." Please quit "hatin."

So at least is should be the Big 4. But it is obvious in this 6 year span the top of the league is simple: Appy and Woffy.

GSU is back on the rise, but if Furman doesn't so something quick to "right the ship," I envision them being down for at leat another year.

The Citadel appears to be on the up. And Elon is having a good year, but we have to wait another yer or so to see if it is "flash in the pan."

And to my App brother who thinks App will get a seed over Wofford if both finish 10-1. Well... seeing that Wofford has ben "hosed" at least twice in the last five years, that probably could happen... but there is no way App would deserve it if they can't win the SoCon title. Period.

Holla.Well, you just proved you're a nut! xeekx Woffy the second best team in the Socon over the last six years?xrolleyesx Were you at any of the games you lost to us in the last six years, which are by far more than you won? Come on DrPNutcase! xrolleyesx
Wofford is having a great year. Anyone that wants to take that away from you guys will get a lot of argument from me to the contrary. You are without a doubt on fire and if you continue,deserve the autobid and a higher seed than App. But the second best in the last six years? xlolx

[blueballs]

Just to give some perspective, other than beat WCU what have you done in the last two years??????

This is rich... a WCU supporter asking a GSU fan what his team has done in the past two years.xlolx

GSU has been in the playoffs w/in the last two years and currently sits 4-2. When was the last time WCU (A)was in the playoffs, (B) defeated GSU, (C) had a winning season?

[BestOfBreed]

Well, you just proved you're a nut! xeekx Woffy the second best team in the Socon over the last six years?xrolleyesx Were you at any of the games you lost to us in the last six years, which are by far more than you won? Come on DrPNutcase! xrolleyesx
Wofford is having a great year. Anyone that wants to take that away from you guys will get a lot of argument from me to the contrary. You are without a doubt on fire and if you continue,deserve the autobid and a higher seed than App. But the second best in the last six years? xlolx


I'm pretty sure Wofford has the 2nd best conference record over the last 6 years. Furman might be 3rd if it helps you any xrolleyesx

[Death Dealer]

FACT: Wofford has the 2nd best conference record over the last 6 years. Furman might be 3rd if it helps you any xrolleyesxHow many playoffs you been to in that 6 years? How many times have you played Furman, App, and GSU and beaten them in that 6 years? How many SOCON titles in that 6 years? 'nuff said.

You guys are great this year. Enjoy it. Don't try to make more of it than it is.

[appfan2008]

How many playoffs you been to in that 6 years? How times have you played Furman, App, and GSU and beaten them in that 6 years? How many SOCON titles in that 6 years? 'nuff said.

You guys are great this year. Enjoy it. Don't try to make more of it than it is.

To add to that... this wont continue for years... IMO

[BestOfBreed]

How many playoffs you been to in that 6 years? How many times have you played Furman, App, and GSU and beaten them in that 6 years? How many SOCON titles in that 6 years? 'nuff said.

You guys are great this year. Enjoy it. Don't try to make more of it than it is.

Last 6 games against each:
App State : 3 wins 3 losses
GSU : 4 wins 2 losses
Furman : 2 wins 4 losses

I'm sorry we don't have the political clout on the selection committee to make it as a bubble team.

[drpnut]

To Death Dealer,

I'm basing my words on win-lose records. And yes Furman has us 4-2 over last six, but we split with app 3-3 and have a 4-2 lead over Ga Southern.

Sounds to me like you are still reeling from FU's down year. So don't let this year cloud your vision and make you out to be more than you are.

I believe that Furman has to make some radical changes for next year to be a good year. People make excuses all the time about injuries, etc. I think it is the coaches job and the players who are asked to fill in to be ready at all times.

Last year Wofford lost about 1/2 of it's defense and still finished 7-4, 5-2 and almost snuck into the playoffs. We are not moaning because we didn't make it, because we know the politcal machine doesn't want small schools that don't have a big travleing base in the playoffs. And we deal with it.

Remember, most of the SoCon schools did not want Wofford to join in. So I think that being 2nd in won-lose % over the last 6 years speaks volumes, considering our short history in I-AA and the SoCon.

We will consitently put a good team on the field because of our vision, coaches, schemes and commitment to "stay the course" of what we do.

Ga. Southern is finding out that you dont fix something that wasn't broken.

So, I go back to FU. I really think you guys need to decide what offense/defense works best and get the coaches coaching together even if it means saying bye to Coach Lamb. You have basically the same talent as last year, so why the major bumps in the road?

Peace

[OL FU]

If ASU and Wofford both finish the season 10-1, ASU gets the higher seed and the Terriers will make a trip to Boone. The win at Michigan trumps the loss at Wofford w/o the starting QB and a lot of injured and beat up players. Even with all that adversity and turnovers, ASU still was in a position to win the game late in the 4th qtr. The Mountaineers are recovering from all those injuries, building momentum and are getting better and better with each passing week. I like what I see in the Apps right now.

So The committee should look at your win at Michigan with more importance than your loss at Woffordxeyebrowx I certainly hope notxnonox

[lizrdgizrd]

So The committee should look at your win at Michigan with more importance than your loss at Woffordxeyebrowx I certainly hope notxnonox
I think if the call were to be made in App's favor it would be because of revenue potential for the NCAA. xnodx

[OL FU]

I think someone ask
SoCon games only (regular season)2001-2006 ( Can't do this year until they are all played)

ASU 35-10
FU 34-11
GSU 32-13
WC 29-16
WCU 17-28
Cit 15-30
Chatt 13-32


Elon did not participate for the entire 6 years

did not count OOC since schedules vary so much

[OL FU]

I think if the call were to be made in App's favor it would be because of revenue potential for the NCAA. xnodx


That is possible but once again I would hope not

[lizrdgizrd]

That is possible but once again I would hope not
Wouldn't have had this problem if we hadn't lost to them. xbawlingx

[Death Dealer]

To Death Dealer,

I'm basing my words on win-lose records. And yes Furman has us 4-2 over last six, but we split with app 3-3 and have a 4-2 lead over Ga Southern.

Sounds to me like you are still reeling from FU's down year. So don't let this year cloud your vision and make you out to be more than you are.

I believe that Furman has to make some radical changes for next year to be a good year. People make excuses all the time about injuries, etc. I think it is the coaches job and the players who are asked to fill in to be ready at all times.

Last year Wofford lost about 1/2 of it's defense and still finished 7-4, 5-2 and almost snuck into the playoffs. We are not moaning because we didn't make it, because we know the politcal machine doesn't want small schools that don't have a big travleing base in the playoffs. And we deal with it.

Remember, most of the SoCon schools did not want Wofford to join in. So I think that being 2nd in won-lose % over the last 6 years speaks volumes, considering our short history in I-AA and the SoCon.

We will consitently put a good team on the field because of our vision, coaches, schemes and commitment to "stay the course" of what we do.

Ga. Southern is finding out that you dont fix something that wasn't broken.

So, I go back to FU. I really think you guys need to decide what offense/defense works best and get the coaches coaching together even if it means saying bye to Coach Lamb. You have basically the same talent as last year, so why the major bumps in the road?

PeaceI don't have a problem with either of the statements I bolded above. I agree 100%. But your post wasn't about this year alone, nor about next year at all. It was about the last six years and how you were a better team than us over those 6 years. In order to be a better team, you will have to beat us more than a third of the time at best.

As to the rest of the SOCON not wanting you to join? FU was not part of that dissenting group for sure, we welcomed a good rival just a short drive away.

Good luck the rest of the season. If you're really lucky, you might get a chance to get to .500 with us in the next few years, but I wouldn't start counting chickens yet. xsmiley_wix xpeacex

[OL FU]

I have heard a lot of people say Furman has to change something ( including a few e-mail discussions with the experts) I know a lot of people say we run an old fashion offense and that may be the case. But it is not unusual for new fangled offenses to fly high for a few years until the defenses figure out how to stop it. Personally I think the biggest problem on offense last year the early part of the this season is that we were spoiled by having Martin under center for two years. We could run and pass basically at will because every defensive coordinator knew that Martin could burn them very quickly. Because that that we did not need deception to help the offense win games. Martin is gone and we need to be less obvious. Hopefully the coaches have not realized that deception is a must as we have put the option (another dead offense ) back into play. Have the ability to run the option and run a standard run and pass offense from the same formations will serve Furman well. We will see.

PS, this year the biggest offensive struggle we had was 4 turnovers a game until saturday. I am not saying we would have been the offensive dynamo of the past, but you just can't win when you hand the ball to the other team. Typically you get what 10 12 offensive possession ( not counting a game full of 3 and outs). You turn it over four times and you are not going to score 30 points a game.

Assuming I am correct about the above ( which who knows) the biggest concern is the defense which has not been worth much for the last three years. I don't know what the answer there is.

[OL FU]

I don't have a problem with either of the statements I bolded above. I agree 100%. But your post wasn't about this year alone, nor about next year at all. It was about the last six years and how you were a better team than us over those 6 years. In order to be a better team, you will have to beat us more than a third of the time at best.

As to the rest of the SOCON not wanting you to join? FU was not part of that dissenting group for sure, we welcomed a good rival just a short drive away.

Good luck the rest of the season. If you're really lucky, you might get a chance to get to .500 with us in the next few years, but I wouldn't start counting chickens yet. xsmiley_wix xpeacex


My guess is that FU was a driving force in getting Wofford in the SoConxnodx

[OL FU]

I'm pretty sure Wofford has the 2nd best conference record over the last 6 years. Furman might be 3rd if it helps you any xrolleyesx


Please see above post.

you are thirdxnodx Furman is second

[BestOfBreed]

Please see above post.

you are thirdxnodx Furman is second

I believe the original post (drpnut on page 4 of this thread) was last 5 years and counting this year as 6th meaning Wofford in 2nd and Furman 3rd xwhistlex

[OL FU]

I believe the original post (drpnut on page 4 of this thread) was last 5 years and counting this year as 6th meaning Wofford in 2nd and Furman 3rd xwhistlex
I made a mistakexnodx in the last six years
you are fourth behind ASU FU and GSU. sorry


Last five years not counting this year since it is not yet comparable.

ASU 29-8
FU 29-10
Wofford 26-11xnodx

[OL FU]

I will mentioned one other thing that has bothered me about recent Paladin teams ( I was reminded of this one by a phone call from one citdog). We do not seem to be nearly as disciplined as in the past. Untimely penalties really hurt last weekend. Late hit after stopping Citadel on a 3rd down giving them a first down and the celebration penalty after the kick off return making us kick from the 15 yard line. xnodx


This of course is another topic but an important impact I had not thought of regarding moving the kick off back to the 30 is the assessment of a penalty on the kick off . Kicking from the 15 is huge. xnodx

[OL FU]

Last 6 games against each:
App State : 3 wins 3 losses
GSU : 4 wins 2 losses
Furman : 2 wins 4 losses

I'm sorry we don't have the political clout on the selection committee to make it as a bubble team.

xeyebrowx I would assume that you a referring mostly to 2002 and I would assume you think our political clout was more important than the fact that we beat youxeyebrowx

[UNHWildCats]

The last 5 years plus 2007 so far Conference in ( ) total includes playoffs.

ASU 52-18 (30-8)
Wofford 48-18 (29-10)
Furman 45-23 (27-12)
Georgia Southern 42-24 (26-14)

[BestOfBreed]

xeyebrowx I would assume that you a referring mostly to 2002 and I would assume you think our political clout was more important than the fact that we beat youxeyebrowx

Nope. You must not know about 2002 if you thought that was directed towards Furman. Also, keep in mind the general consensus is Wofford has to win the autobid to get in (see 2002, 2004, 2006).

[BestOfBreed]

The last 5 years plus 2007 so far Conference in ( ) total includes playoffs.

ASU 52-18 (30-8)
Wofford 48-18 (29-10)
Furman 45-23 (27-12)
Georgia Southern 42-24 (26-14)

xbowx xthumbsupx

[UNHWildCats]

The big 4 against each other since 2004

Appalachian State 7-3
Furman 6-3
Wofford 4-7
Georgia Southern 3-6

[OL FU]

xbowx xthumbsupx

Do you want me to call in 89 hen to play with numbers until they turn our rightxsmiley_wix xlolx

[BestOfBreed]

Do you want me to call in 89 hen to play with numbers until they turn our rightxsmiley_wix xlolx

"Statistics are for losers." - Vince Lombardi

xrotatehx xlolx

[OL FU]

Nope. You must not know about 2002 if you thought that was directed towards Furman. Also, keep in mind the general consensus is Wofford has to win the autobid to get in (see 2002, 2004, 2006).

Not the first time I have lept before looking:p

[OL FU]

"Statistics are for losers." - Vince Lombardi

xrotatehx xlolx

Well then it is a good year for me to keep the record book handyxlolx :o xbawlingx

[AlphaSigMD]

This question was posed to me by my best friend, the sports editor at a prominent newspaper in NC.

When was the last time the Big 3 all "failed to win" on the same day during the regular season?

Yes, I know its not the same things as all 3 losing, because ASU was on a bye, but I'd still be interested to know if anyone care to do the research.

[walliver]

Well then it is a good year for me to keep the record book handyxlolx :o xbawlingx

You just have to present the numbers correctly. Mention your winning streak against PC. Point out that you have win every single game against Coastal except 1. Boast that you have never lost to Elon in a SoCon game.

A good record book will give you all kinds of positive stats, even when you are having a sucktacular season.xnodx

[OL FU]

You just have to present the numbers correctly. Mention your winning streak against PC. Point out that you have win every single game against Coastal except 1. Boast that you have never lost to Elon in a SoCon game.

A good record book will give you all kinds of positive stats, even when you are having a sucktacular season.xnodx

I'll just remember our overall record against you guys (but only since you joined the conferencexsmiley_wix )

[Death Dealer]

You just have to present the numbers correctly. Mention your winning streak against PC. Point out that you have win every single game against Coastal except 1. Boast that you have never lost to Elon in a SoCon game.

A good record book will give you all kinds of positive stats, even when you are having a sucktacular season.xnodxSounds like the voice of experience.xcoolx xlolx xlolx xsmiley_wix xpeacex

[HiHiYikas]

The "Big 3" have 13 championship appearances and 9 national titles, including the only I-AA/FCS title ever won by a private school. Two of the big three, Georgia Southern and Furman, have met in the championship game.

SoCon teams will have good years and bad years. Typical bottom-dwellers and so-so teams will rise, traditional powers will fall. It happens every single year, bringing about the now-predictable "is it really the big 3?" discussion. It's 2007, and the talk is back, almost on cue.

Until one of the non "Big 3" programs brings home a national Championship, "Big 4 (or more)" talk seems a little short-sighted.

[straightshooter]

GSU and Furman met in the championship game twice - '85 and '88.

From 1985-2000, GSU played in eight championship games.

[terrierbob]

The "Big 3" have 13 championship appearances and 9 national titles, including the only I-AA/FCS title ever won by a private school. Two of the big three, Georgia Southern and Furman, have met in the championship game.

SoCon teams will have good years and bad years. Typical bottom-dwellers and so-so teams will rise, traditional powers will fall. It happens every single year, bringing about the now-predictable "is it really the big 3?" discussion. It's 2007, and the talk is back, almost on cue.

Until one of the non "Big 3" programs brings home a national Championship, "Big 4 (or more)" talk seems a little short-sighted.
We're doing our best, Dad! Gosh!

[appfan2008]

GSU and Furman met in the championship game twice - '85 and '88.

From 1985-2000, GSU played in eight championship games.

that could be asu here shortly... i hope!

[HiHiYikas]

We're doing our best, Dad! Gosh!
There's no doubt about that...and, since I guess ASU probably can't win every national championship from here out, I'll be glad when another SoCon team brings home their first championship.

The way Wofford has been playing, it might happen sooner than later.

[terrierbob]

There's no doubt about that...and, since I guess ASU probably can win every national championship from here out, I'll be glad when another SoCon team brings home their first championship.

The way Wofford has been playing, it might happen sooner than later.

xprayx

[catamount man]

This is rich... a WCU supporter asking a GSU fan what his team has done in the past two years.xlolx

GSU has been in the playoffs w/in the last two years and currently sits 4-2. When was the last time WCU (A)was in the playoffs, (B) defeated GSU, (C) had a winning season?

a)1983
b)1994
c)2005

And you thought I didn't know?!!!xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xlolx

GO CATAMOUNTS!!!

[walliver]

The "Big 3" have 13 championship appearances and 9 national titles, including the only I-AA/FCS title ever won by a private school. Two of the big three, Georgia Southern and Furman, have met in the championship game.

SoCon teams will have good years and bad years. Typical bottom-dwellers and so-so teams will rise, traditional powers will fall. It happens every single year, bringing about the now-predictable "is it really the big 3?" discussion. It's 2007, and the talk is back, almost on cue.

Until one of the non "Big 3" programs brings home a national Championship, "Big 4 (or more)" talk seems a little short-sighted.

Go back two years and your argument would prove that ASU was a pretender, and there was really only a "Big 2".xnodx

Go back eleven years to the Marshall era, and there was no talk of a "Big 3":D

As of October 2005, ASU had won just as many National Championships as Elon. (Actually Elon had two NAIA championships, and ASU had nothing.)

[BestOfBreed]

Go back two years and your argument would prove that ASU was a pretender, and there was really only a "Big 2".xnodx

Go back eleven years to the Marshall era, and there was no talk of a "Big 3":D

As of October 2005, ASU had won just as many National Championships as Elon. (Actually Elon had two NAIA championships, and ASU had nothing.)

LMAO. I was thinking the same thing when I read his post. I guess there really must have only been a "Big 2" all those years. xnodx

[HiHiYikas]

Go back two years and your argument would prove that ASU was a pretender, and there was really only a "Big 2".xnodx

Go back eleven years to the Marshall era, and there was no talk of a "Big 3":D

As of October 2005, ASU had won just as many National Championships as Elon. (Actually Elon had two NAIA championships, and ASU had nothing.)
Precisely...You're really not telling me anything I didn't already know or take into consideration when making the argument, here.

When it comes to prominence beyond the SoCon stage, there wasn't a real "Big 3" before 2005. There was Georgia Southern and Furman, teams known for winning bigger trophies than the SoCon title. ASU was one of those programs that could make some noise in the SoCon, mount an occasional playoff run, but couldn't win the big one. Unlike their rivals at WCU, they couldn't even make it to the national title game.

They just won a lot of conference games. And fans of GaSo and Furman were right to say "What do you mean 'big 3?' Anybody can win a lot of conference games now and then. Give us a call when you actually win a national title."

If you want to make "Big 3" about season-to-season prominence within the SoCon, it's going to be different every year (nobody's won 3 outright conference titles in a row since Furman in the early 80's). And every year, the latest on-the-rise team will, on cue, start asking "what's all this about a big 3?" When that starts happening again, those 9 national championships become a pretty solid distinguishing factor, pointing to bigger accomplishments than conference success.

And Elon's NAIA championships, as impressive as they are, aren't exactly germane to this conversation. If success in a different division is to be considered, I'd like ASU to get some credit for winning a few bowl games back before WWII.

[gophoenix]

Precisely...You're really not telling me anything I didn't already know or take into consideration when making the argument, here.

When it comes to prominence beyond the SoCon stage, there wasn't a real "Big 3" before 2005. There was Georgia Southern and Furman, teams known for winning bigger trophies than the SoCon title. ASU was one of those programs that could make some noise in the SoCon, mount an occasional playoff run but couldn't win the big one. Unlike their rivals at WCU, they couldn't even make the national title game.

If you want to make "Big 3" about season-to-season prominence within the SoCon, it's going to be different every year (nobody's won 3 outright conference titles in a row since Furman in the early 80's). And every year, the latest on-the-rise team will, on cue, start asking "what's all this about a big 3?" When that starts happening again, those 9 national championships become a pretty solid distinguishing factor, one that points to bigger accomplishments than conference success.

And Elon's NAIA championships, as impressive as they are, aren't exactly germane to this conversation. If success in a different division is to be considered, I'd like ASU to get some credit for winning a few bowl games back before WWII.

Yeah, the Burly Bowl or something like that. But that was just a Bowl game of local colleges for the region right? But I don't have any more information on it.

But App was 2-6 in those Bowl Games playing Southern Miss, West Chester, Emory & Henry, ETSU, West Liberty St, and Newberry.

The Burley Bowl, Olympian Bowl, Pythian Bowl and Elks Bowl. The Burley Bowl was in Johnson City, I think. But that's about all I know. I've always been curious about these. Can one of the App Historians talk more on them?

[HiHiYikas]

Yeah, the Burly Bowl or something like that....Can one of the App Historians talk more on them?
I found a good article about the Burley Bowl a while back, after asking some of the same questions...

http://bcyesteryear.com/fulltext.php?article=28

[gophoenix]

Now that I am curious... according to CFBDatawarehouse for SoCon Bowl Games:

Furman 0-1 (Diamond Bowl)
Elon 2-2 (NAIA Bowl, Palm Bowl)
App 2-6 (Burley Bowl, Pythian Bowl, Olympian Bowl, Elks Bowl, Doll&Toy Charity Game)
GSU 2-0 (Diamond Bowls)
UTC 0-0
Wofford - No Data
The Citadel 1-0 (Tangerine Bowl is pretty big)
Western Carolina 0-1 (Smokey Mountain Bowl)
Samford 3-1 (Textile Bowl, Golden Isles Bowl, Space City Bowl, Stagg Bowl)

So in Reality - The SoCon still looks good....
GSU - 6 I-AA Championships
App - 2 I-AA Championships
Furman - 1 I-AA Championship
Samford - 1 D-III Championship
Elon - 2 NAIA-I Championships

[The Cats]

Remember, most of the SoCon schools did not want Wofford to join in.

If that had in fact been the case, you would not now be in the SoCon. You need to come up with a new argument. Now, many might agree that fans of most SoCon schools did not want Wofford in the conference.

[Eyes of Old Main]

Until one of the non "Big 3" programs brings home a national Championship, "Big 4 (or more)" talk seems a little short-sighted.

Appalachian has been considered part of the Big 3 for many years prior to their winning their titles. Before 2005, Appalachian's deepest run into the playoffs was the same as Wofford's, the semifinals, and not as deep as Western Carolina's trip to the finals in 1983.

I don't consider Wofford to have acheived the stature of any of the Big 3, and they won't unless they can sustain their current level of success for 5-10 more years (kind of like Virginia Tech, they were crap for years, but have been good for 10-12 years and now are considered a national power within their classification), but don't forget that it hasn't been long since the Mountaineers were the piece of the Big 3 puzzle that had no titles just a few years ago.

[Eyes of Old Main]

If that had in fact been the case, you would not now be in the SoCon. You need to come up with a new argument. Now, many might agree that fans of most SoCon schools did not want Wofford in the conference.

Agreed. The presidents wanted us because they were the ones to vote us in, the fans thought it was the worst thing to ever happen. Hopefully by now, 10 years later, we at least have proven that we can play at this level, particularly since even in our early SoCon years we never finished last in the final standings.

[BestOfBreed]

Now that I am curious... according to CFBDatawarehouse for SoCon Bowl Games:

Furman 0-1 (Diamond Bowl)
Elon 2-2 (NAIA Bowl, Palm Bowl)
App 2-6 (Burley Bowl, Pythian Bowl, Olympian Bowl, Elks Bowl, Doll&Toy Charity Game)
GSU 2-0 (Diamond Bowls)
UTC 0-0
Wofford - No Data
The Citadel 1-0 (Tangerine Bowl is pretty big)
Western Carolina 0-1 (Smokey Mountain Bowl)
Samford 3-1 (Textile Bowl, Golden Isles Bowl, Space City Bowl, Stagg Bowl)

So in Reality - The SoCon still looks good....
GSU - 6 I-AA Championships
App - 2 I-AA Championships
Furman - 1 I-AA Championship
Samford - 1 D-III Championship
Elon - 2 NAIA-I Championships

Wofford lost to Florida State in the 1950 Cigar Bowl. Final score 19-6. They also played in the NAIA Championship Bowl in 1970 losing to Texas A&I 48-7.

[OL FU]

What's the big three. From all the talk about small versus large in the conference I thought we were a member of the little three dons.

Furman The Citadel and Wofford

[HiHiYikas]

Appalachian has been considered part of the Big 3 for many years prior to their winning their titles. Before 2005, Appalachian's deepest run into the playoffs was the same as Wofford's, the semifinals, and not as deep as Western Carolina's trip to the finals in 1983.

I don't consider Wofford to have acheived the stature of any of the Big 3, and they won't unless they can sustain their current level of success for 5-10 more years (kind of like Virginia Tech, they were crap for years, but have been good for 10-12 years and now are considered a national power within their classification), but don't forget that it hasn't been long since the Mountaineers were the piece of the Big 3 puzzle that had no titles just a few years ago.
That makes sense...

Since 1980...27 Conference titles for "the big 3" (that includes several shared titles)...6 for others (3 for Marshall, 1 for Chattanooga, 1 for The Citadel, 1 for Wofford). During that period, there's not been a 2-year stint when one of the big 3 didn't win the conference title. On top of that, there have been some deep playoff runs - semi's or even finals - for members of the "big 3" even when they didn't win the conference.

I think we agree that, with sustained success a requirement, any change to the "big 3" is short-sighted. I think Wofford is definitely on the cusp, since no other SoCon program outside the "big 3" has more than 1 conference title in the last 20-something years (And Wofford, barring the unforeseen, will probably win the league outright this year).

I would add, though, that, given the postseason résumé of the "big 3," a Wofford national title in the short-term would be just as effective at changing perceptions than sustained Wofford success in the long-term.

[BestOfBreed]

That makes sense...

Since 1980...27 Conference titles for "the big 3" (that includes several shared titles)...5 for others (2 for Marshall, 1 for Chattanooga, 1 for The Citadel, 1 for Wofford). During that period, there's not been a 2-year stint when one of the big 3 didn't win the conference title.

I think we agree that, with sustained success a requirement, any change to the "big 3" is short-sighted. I think Wofford is definitely on the cusp, since no other SoCon program outside the "big 3" has more than 1 conference title in the last 20-something years (And Wofford, barring the unforeseen, will probably win the league outright this year).

I would add, though, that, given the postseason résumé of the "big 3," a Wofford national title in the short-term would be just as effective at changing perceptions than sustained Wofford success in the long-term.

I'm not so sure. There's still a pretty common perception that Wofford is a once every 4 years team now. I don't hear it much on here but it comes up from time to time on opponents boards.

[OL FU]

That makes sense...

Since 1980...27 Conference titles for "the big 3" (that includes several shared titles)...5 for others (2 for Marshall, 1 for Chattanooga, 1 for The Citadel, 1 for Wofford). During that period, there's not been a 2-year stint when one of the big 3 didn't win the conference title. On top of that, there have been some deep playoff runs - semi's or even finals - for members of the "big 3" even when they didn't win the conference.

I think we agree that, with sustained success a requirement, any change to the "big 3" is short-sighted. I think Wofford is definitely on the cusp, since no other SoCon program outside the "big 3" has more than 1 conference title in the last 20-something years (And Wofford, barring the unforeseen, will probably win the league outright this year).

I would add, though, that, given the postseason résumé of the "big 3," a Wofford national title in the short-term would be just as effective at changing perceptions than sustained Wofford success in the long-term.


I would like to remind everyone of that when they speak of Marshall dominationxrolleyesx

[HiHiYikas]

I would like to remind everyone of that when they speak of Marshall dominationxrolleyesx
Exactly...and I missed one of their titles, actually - they split with you guys in '88, won outright in '94 and '96...so that's 3 titles...6 total for non-big-3's since 1980.

[JDC325]

Looks like the big 3 this season are ASU, The Citadel, and Elon.xeekx xthumbsupx

I'm happy for the Elon folks. Amazing what a coaching change can do to spark a program. Too bad we won't have that luxury this off season in Cullowhee.

GO CATS!!!


NM

[The Cats]

The shake up continues......, but GSU and FU shows signs of life.