Patriot League Pick 'Em - Week One

[DFW HOYA]

The long road that is Holy Cross and the Struggling Six (otherwise known as Patriot League football) begins.

All times EDT:

Thursday, September 1
Fordham at Wagner, 6:00 (NEC Front Row)

Friday, September 2
Lehigh at Villanova, 6:00 (FloSports)
Holy Cross at Merrimack 7:00 (NEC Front Row)

Saturday, September 3
Georgetown at Marist, 12 noon (TBA)
Sacred Heart at Lafayette, 12:30 (ESPN+)
Towson at Bucknell, 6:00 (ESPN)
Colgate at Stanford, 8:00 (Pac-12 Network)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Here we go...
Fordham 37 Wagner 20 - A loss here would be a devastating blow to Conlin and the PL...
Marist 24 Georgetown 17 - A slight edge to the home team in this pillow fight...
Sacred Heart 21 Lafayette 13 - Troxell may very well be the guy who changes the 'Pard's fortunes. It just won't be against the defending NEC Champs to start the season...
Towson 45 Bucknell 10 - The Bison were one of the worst teams I have ever season at the D1 level last year. Towson will roll...
Stanford 41 Colgate 7 - Shaw's job is likely in jeopardy with a subpar season. The Raiders don't get truly embarrassed but this one is never in doubt...
Holy Cross 37 Merrimack 14 - The Crusaders figure to be the PL's best squad since Colgate in 2018. They'll exact a good amount of payback for last year's shocking loss to the Warriors....
Villanova 44 Lehigh 17 - The Wildcats have dominated PL competition for 30 years. They'll throttle a downtrodden Lehigh team to start the year.....

[The Cats]

Thursday, September 1
Fordham at Wagner, 6:00 (NEC Front Row)

Friday, September 2
Lehigh at Villanova, 6:00 (FloSports)
Holy Cross at Merrimack 7:00 (NEC Front Row)

Saturday, September 3
Georgetown at Marist, 12 noon (TBA)
Sacred Heart at Lafayette, 12:30 (ESPN+)
Towson at Bucknell, 6:00 (ESPN)
Colgate at Stanford, 8:00 (Pac-12 Network)

[NY Crusader 2010]

Villanova
Holy Cross
Georgetown
Sacred Heart
Towson
Stanford
Fordham

The three Jesuit schools win, everyone else takes an L to open the season.

[bonarae]

Fordham
'Nova
Holy Cross
Georgetown
Sacred Heart
Towson
Stanford

[RichH2]

SHU over Pards. NEC champ. Not sure what Pards are other than a decent D.
Fordham over Wagner. Very talented team that has under performed consistently but enuf to take Wagner
Cross over Merrimack.Expect a rout
Stanford over Gate. Raiders will hang for a while but don't see a close game
Towson over Bucknell. Think Bison will be better than most expect but not enuf for this game
Hoyas over Marist. A Homer call.🤷*♂️😁
Nova over Lehigh. Lehigh experienced but still very young. Pieces are there if it has an OL.Even if we do,Nova is too good.

[MR. CHICKEN]

WAGNER.......HAS DUH CURRENT....FCS...LONGEST LOSIN' STREAK...@ 20 GAMES......SOON TA BE 21.....BRAWK!

[KPSUL]

Thursday, September 1
Fordham at Wagner

Friday, September 2
Lehigh at Villanova
Holy Cross at Merrimack

Saturday, September 3
Georgetown at Marist
Sacred Heart at Lafayette
Towson at Bucknell
Colgate at Stanford

This pick'em is like shooting fish in a barrell; except for the Hoyas @ the Red Foxes - which should be about as exciting as last year's game

[ngineer]

Good opening scrimmage for Fordham. Rams roll, 38-10
Lehigh's last two recruiting classes are showing some good skill, and the key will be keeping its OL intact. I see the Mtn. Hawks giving 'nova a good scrap, but will wear down in the 4th quarter
with the Wildcats winning 27-17.
Cross should have an easy time with the 'Macs', but recall the 'saders stumbled last year against lesser opponent. Still, can't pick against HC. 35-14
Redd Foxes will squeak by the Hoyas, 24-21.
Laughyette should be getting more serious with their new HC, but SHU early in the season will have the edge, 28-17
Bucknell could be in for an embarrassing evening. Tigers win big, 45-17
Not sure how 'gate got this game, but kudos on getting it and the 'moola'...I hope it is worth it. Cardinal 42-10.

[Go...gate]

Fordham 31, Wagner 17

Villanova 33, Lehigh 20

Holy Cross 48, Merrimack 17

Georgetown 22, Marist 16

Lafayette 21, Sacred Heart 14

Towson 36, Bucknell 14

Stanford 50, Colgate 7

[TheValleyRaider]

TGIF. Thank goodness it's football :D. A long summer finally comes to an end, and we're back. Let's allow the optimism of a new season to temporarily wash over the likely disappointment of the season to come.

Fordham at Wagner Fordham Going to take the Rams here. They are a talented bunch (we think) that doesn't always put it all together. Staten Island isn't really that far from the Bronx, geographically at least, so unless the Seahawks are dramatically improved, it's hard to see home field making up the 49-point difference from last season.

Lehigh at Villanova Villanova Speaking of rematches from blowouts the previous season, here come the Mountain Hawks to the Main Line. No home field switch in this one, so the Hawks won't have that to hang their hat on here. Presumably their offense is better, I hope? Not 44 points better, but maybe more than one field goal better.

Holy Cross at Merrimack Holy Cross One of the more inexplicable results from a year ago was the Crusaders losing at home. I'm feeling optimistic about HC this season, so it'll be a good test for them to stay focused. Not having a big win against UConn to distract will hopefully help.

Georgetown at Marist Georgetown Throwing it back with some MAAC-tion (that's right, we've got MAAC references here). Another rematch from 2021, this one in the same place. The Hoyas won by 40 on the banks of the Hudson, how much has really changed? Normally that's a negative question for the Hoyas and the Patriot League, so let's take the positive where possible.

Sacred Heart at Lafayette Lafayette Another rematch, but this time going all the way back to 2019. I haven't really thought one year is enough to overturn big deficits, but perhaps 3 years can bridge 16 points? As always, I never know what to expect with the Leopards, so let's keep the optimism going with the new season.

Towson at Bucknell Towson Again back to 2019, again with a big deficit, and again in the same place. I'm noticing patterns this week. I don't know if Towson is going to be any good this year, and maybe Bucknell improves. Probably not enough to really matter for the result.

Colgate at Stanford Colgate Look, a first time matchup! Sunny California, here come the Raiders. First trip to the Golden State since a 2017 victory over Cal Poly. Actually there is only one other visit, a victory over Saint Mary's in 1999. Two wins in two visits is all the possible evidence I could want to confidently predict the Raiders to take this one. What more could you possibly need?

[Fordham]

Fordham 42 Wagner 14 - Convincing start ahead of some tough FBS/CAA games
Georgetown 17 Marist 10 - Gtown starts off with a W
Sacred Heart 31 Lafayette 10 - SH always tough and I'm assuming it will take some time for new Pard system to click
Towson 52 Bucknell 10 - Bucknell in the crapper
Stanford 52 Colgate 10 - This one gets ugly early
Holy Cross 42 Merrimack 21 - HC starts off strong in what could be an epic PL season.
Villanova 38 Lehigh 24 - I think Lehigh makes this one more interesting than expected but 'Nova eventually pulls away

[crusader11]

Fordham 45 at Wagner 20 - DeMorat is likely to put up gaudy numbers this season. He throws for 4 TDs in an early season cakewalk.

Lehigh 13 at Villanova 27 - Make or break year for Gilmore. I'm betting Lehigh's positive feelings to conclude last season carry over to this year and they give Villanova a decent game. Lehigh's defense is supposed to be pretty good this year.

Holy Cross 34 at Merrimack 13 - In probably the most bizarre game/score of the Chesney era at HC (a 35-21 loss last year), HC gets some revenge in North Andover.

Georgetown 24 at Marist 21 - Don't know one iota about Marist, but going 5-5 last year and picked in the bottom half of the PFL leads me to believe they're somewhere between bad to average. I'll be a PL homer and give the Hoyas an edge.

Sacred Heart 20 at Lafayette 21 - New era in Easton gets off in a good way at the 'Pards pull a slight upset.

Towson 45 at Bucknell 14 - This figures to be ugly. Bucknell looked like they didn't want to be playing football at times last season.

Colgate 13 at Stanford 38 - Take the paycheck and get home safely. Shaw calls off the dogs in the second half and this one looks a bit more respectable on the scoreboard.

[Remise]

Colgate at Stanford Colgate Look, a first time matchup! Sunny California, here come the Raiders. First trip to the Golden State since a 2017 victory over Cal Poly. Actually there is only one other visit, a victory over Saint Mary's in 1999. Two wins in two visits is all the possible evidence I could want to confidently predict the Raiders to take this one. What more could you possibly need?[/QUOTE]

That's the spirit! Ah, um....'Go Gate!" One never knows.... The last time we played Penn State, about a gazillion years ago, Colgate was ahead 10-0 in the second quarter. Of course, the final score was 55-10, but as my Chinese (fencing) coach would say, "What you can do?" I will be watching the stats!

[RichH2]

Good opening scrimmage for Fordham. Rams roll, 38-10
Lehigh's last two recruiting classes are showing some good skill, and the key will be keeping its OL intact. I see the Mtn. Hawks giving 'nova a good scrap, but will wear down in the 4th quarter
with the Wildcats winning 27-17.
Cross should have an easy time with the 'Macs', but recall the 'saders stumbled last year against lesser opponent. Still, can't pick against HC. 35-14
Redd Foxes will squeak by the Hoyas, 24-21.
Laughyette should be getting more serious with their new HC, but SHU early in the season will have the edge, 28-17
Bucknell could be in for an embarrassing evening. Tigers win big, 45-17
Not sure how 'gate got this game, but kudos on getting it and the 'moola'...I hope it is worth it. Cardinal 42-10.

Noticed today that Passarelli the starting LG is off the roster in the GameNotes. He is still listed on roster at the LU site. No idea yet of cause. I'm hoping fir a glitch. That seems a reach.
Keeping OL intact ses a lost cause already

[Go...gate]

Colgate at Stanford Colgate Look, a first time matchup! Sunny California, here come the Raiders. First trip to the Golden State since a 2017 victory over Cal Poly. Actually there is only one other visit, a victory over Saint Mary's in 1999. Two wins in two visits is all the possible evidence I could want to confidently predict the Raiders to take this one. What more could you possibly need?

That's the spirit! Ah, um....'Go Gate!" One never knows.... The last time we played Penn State, about a gazillion years ago, Colgate was ahead 10-0 in the second quarter. Of course, the final score was 55-10, but as my Chinese (fencing) coach would say, "What you can do?" I will be watching the stats![/QUOTE]

Ah, no. 54-10 and we never led. Closest we came was 17-3 in the second period.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Fordham 48 Wagner 23
Villanova 34 Lehigh 10
Holy Cross 23 Merrimack 17
Georgetown 23 Marist 21
Sacred Heart 28 Lafayette 0
Towson 30 Bucknell 14
Stanford 45 Colgate 6

[Leopard Loyalist]

Fordham 31 Wagner 14
Villanova 28 Lehigh 13
Holy Cross 35 Merrimack 21
Georgetown 24 Marist 17
Sacred Heart 21 Lafayette 17
Towson 35 Bucknell 7
Stanford 42 Colgate 10

[crusader11]

Conlin gonna Conlin.

What a mistake it was by Fordham giving him a contract extension.

[CHIP72]

How bad is Fordham if they lose to Wagner?

[DFW HOYA]

How bad is Fordham if they lose to Wagner?

They'll escape, bit Wagner entered the game on a 13 game losing streak. Even with the win, an alarm bell for the Patriot League.

[Fordham]

Oh relax everyone. Wagner much better than last year with 15 transfers. Did you guys watch or just commenting after looking at the score? Thought Wagner played great and they have some good talent/.

Add to it the awful awful call to give them a gift TD before half that was so so bad. Then we had the ball inside the 3 twice with no points and also threw a pick when inside the 15. We played poorly, had everything go against us and still grinded out the win. Not the start I was hoping for but save me the Pearl clenching about how poorly this bodes for the PL.

[CHIP72]

Oh relax everyone. Wagner much better than last year with 15 transfers. Did you guys watch or just commenting after looking at the score? Thought Wagner played great and they have some good talent/.

Add to it the awful awful call to give them a gift TD before half that was so so bad. Then we had the ball inside the 3 twice with no points and also threw a pick when inside the 15. We played poorly, had everything go against us and still grinded out the win. Not the start I was hoping for but save me the Pearl clenching about how poorly this bodes for the PL.
In recent years Wagner has been a doormat in one of the weakest conferences in DI-AA/FCS. Even if the Seahawks have improved, they still entered the game with a combined 1-24 record the last three seasons and on a 20 game losing streak. The Rams should be able to handle their fellow NYC team without too much trouble.

[crusader11]

Oh relax everyone. Wagner much better than last year with 15 transfers. Did you guys watch or just commenting after looking at the score? Thought Wagner played great and they have some good talent/.

Add to it the awful awful call to give them a gift TD before half that was so so bad. Then we had the ball inside the 3 twice with no points and also threw a pick when inside the 15. We played poorly, had everything go against us and still grinded out the win. Not the start I was hoping for but save me the Pearl clenching about how poorly this bodes for the PL.

I watched. Thought the defense was awful and offense about what I expected against one of the worst in the FCS. Joe Conlin is a bad coach. Period.

Fordham should be better than they are given the pieces they have, but I suspect they’ll underachieve.

[Fordham]

I watched. Thought the defense was awful and offense about what I expected against one of the worst in the FCS. Joe Conlin is a bad coach. Period.

Fordham should be better than they are given the pieces they have, but I suspect they’ll underachieve.

That’s an awful lot to glean from one game. We have a tough schedule ahead of us and we’ll know soon enough. I remember the HC loss to Merrimack last year. It was stunning. I took the word of those who posted who said they were good. At least we grinded this out and won convincingly despite what I posted earlier that could have made this a runaway much earlier. Much better than an L for sure

[DFW HOYA]

I watched. Thought the defense was awful and offense about what I expected against one of the worst in the FCS. Joe Conlin is a bad coach. Period.

Fordham should be better than they are given the pieces they have, but I suspect they’ll underachieve.

I watched parts of it as well amidst the Pitt-WVU game.

If Fordham really is the second best team in the PL, that defense should be a concern.

[Fordham]

I watched parts of it as well amidst the Pitt-WVU game.

If Fordham really is the second best team in the PL, that defense should be a concern.

Yep, we’ll see. Secondary was torched early. Finally settled in late so at least there were adjustments. Hats off to the Wagner QB and their one WR, though. They’re legit imo.

I’m not going to whine about a 48-31 win when so many things went against us and we persevered. Ive watched enough football through the years to know how easily it could be an L when things aren’t going your way and the other team is also playing with confidence. We now get some extra days to prep for Monmouth. They’re a tough team so if we get whooped I may jump on your guys’ bandwagon but let’s see that one first.

[NY Crusader 2010]

A win is a win. Fordham more or less dominated that stat sheet. The wideout Simmons accounted for about 60% of all of Wagner's yards from scrimmage in the first half.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh stops 'Nova on 4th and 1 on the Wildcats first drive. Then Lehigh gets to the 'Nova 30 and on 4th and 18 Gilmore opts to go for it instead of kick a long FG?

As it is 0-0 with about 7 minutes left in 1Q

[crusader11]

Lehigh defense with a nice stand after a big gainer by 'Nova to force a FG.

If they can have a semblance of an offense this year, they'll be competitive. Defense strikes me as being solid.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Villanova gets to the Lehigh 6 before settling for a FG

'Nova 3-0 3:52 1Q

Now that the emotion/adrenaline has worn off I am very interested to see how Lehigh fairs....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

TD 'Nova on a huge pass play!

10-0 'Nova 14:41 2Q

It should be noted that Lehigh completed another quarter of football without scoring a TD against an OOC opponent. A streak that dates back to 2019.....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Perri with a dreadful interception...

'Nova in business deep in Lehigh territory.

[UNHWildcat18]

17-0 Villanova. Getting ugly

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

TD 'Nova!

17-0 Villanova 12:33 2Q

Lehigh looks as incompetent as ever on both sides of the ball. Once the emotion wore off they reverted back to typical "Gilmore" form. Just awful football...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Another Villanova TD!! Like a hot knife through Gilmore's vaunted defense!

24-0 9:00 2Q

[crusader11]

Yikes. Now 24-0.

Lehigh doesn't look t have the horses and the offensive playbook is anything but imaginative.

How does Scott Brisson still have a job at Lehigh after last season?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Yikes. Now 24-0.

Lehigh doesn't look t have the horses and the offensive playbook is anything but imaginative.

How does Scott Brisson still have a job at Lehigh after last season?

Because Gilmore still has a job. Noone in their right mind would work for Gilmore. That's the best he can do. I see no way Gilmore makes it past this year. The man is a program cancer...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh finally scores a TD against an OOC opponent for the first time since 9/28/19 (Merrimack)

'Nova 24-7 3:53 2Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Villanova with another long TD pass! Guy was open by 20 yards!! Boom goes Gilmore's defense!!

31-7 3:06 2Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh scores with 0:12 left in the half. Nice pass and run after....

'Nova 31-14 0:12 2Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh puts together another solid drive on offense. Ends with a FG

Villanova 31-17 9:25 3Q

Can the defense step up to actually make this interesting?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

'Nova responds with a nice TD drive. Lehigh's defense is lost...

38-17 4:15 3Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Villanova 38 Lehigh 17 End of 3Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Perri fumbles, 'Nova makes Lehigh pay with another TD. Just yuck! The defense is atrocious and the offense continues to bumble around. Inexcusable....

45-17 12:21 4Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Here we go...
Villanova 44 Lehigh 17 - The Wildcats have dominated PL competition for 30 years. They'll throttle a downtrodden Lehigh team to start the year.....

Villanova 45 Lehigh 17 Final

Simply a way too predictable of an outcome. Hopefully we're one game closer to the end of the Gilmore and Co. era.....

[DFW HOYA]

Villanova 45 Lehigh 17 Final
Simply a way too predictable of an outcome. Hopefully we're one game closer to the end of the Gilmore and Co. era.....

Gilmore can get to 1-1 with next week's game. If not, well...


https://lehighsports.com/sports/football/schedule

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Gilmore can get to 1-1 with next week's game. If not, well...

https://lehighsports.com/sports/football/schedule

That game means nothing.

[DFW HOYA]

That game means nothing.

But after that, things get busy: Richmond, Princeton, Monmouth.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

But after that, things get busy: Richmond, Princeton, Monmouth.

Which is awesome! Gives the program nowhere to hide!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Holy Cross 21 Merrimack 10 4:51 3Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Holy Cross 24 Merrimack 10 End 3Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Crusaders 31-10 9:15 4Q

HC stepping up as they should....

[crusader11]

31-17 final in North Andover with Merrimack getting a garbage TD late.

Get the win and get out of town. Very chippy game. Pretty sloppy. Too many after-the-play penalties.

I'm sure the team will enjoy watching Buffalo tomorrow. Be interesting to see how they do at Maryland.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown 0
Marist 3
End 1st

[Franks Tanks]

Pards -SHU tied at O in the 2nd

Laf defense playing well, and Pards offense just anemic so far.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Pards -SHU tied at O in the 2nd

Laf defense playing well, and Pards offense just anemic so far.

Both defenses are really good imo. SHU is a fringe Top 25 team which makes this is a great game to start the season with for Lafayette. A good team that a competent 'Pard team with should be competitive with.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Georgetown 20 Marist 6 Half

This is great to see!

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown 20
Marist 6
Halftime

[Franks Tanks]

Both defenses are really good imo. SHU is a fringe Top 25 team which makes this is a great game to start the season with for Lafayette. A good team that a competent 'Pard team with should be competitive with.

Pards will finish the 1st half with about 40 yards! I like the scheme and play calling is fine, just lack of execution. SHU’s power running game will be tough to stop in the 2nd half with the Pards D being on the field all day!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Georgetown 27 Marist 6 12:12 3Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

TD 'Pards on a nice QB run! Setup by a nice punt return. But they miss the Xp...

Lafayette 6-0 about 11:00 3Q

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown 27
Marist 12
End 3rd

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lafayette 6 Sacred Heart 0 End 3Q

[crusader11]

Lafayette has six completions for SIX YARDS and is winning this game, 6-0. Incredible.

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -


Georgetown 27
Marist 12
End 3rd

Hot seat: Bucknell

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown 43
Marist 12
Final

Marist is not good.

[crusader11]

John Troxell may want to try something new at QB next weekend against Temple.

Ryan Schuster: 7-16 for 7 yards and 2 interceptions.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

SHU on the move, about a minute left....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

SHU inside the Pards 3 with 9 second left!

[crusader11]

One more play, 'Pards! Would be a great stand.

I think SHU runs it...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Pards hold! What great stand!!

[crusader11]

Wow, nice win for Lafayette and the PL!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Wow, nice win for Lafayette and the PL!

Helluva a win! To beat a good NEC program is a huge boost both for the league and the 'Pards. Lafayette's defense is flat out legit. Temple's offense, who was shutout by Duke, will struggle next week....

[Fordham]

Congrats Pards! Nice win Gtown!

[crusader11]

4-1 so far for the league with three wins against the NEC and one against the PFL.

Let's just hope for a respectable showing tonight by Bucknell.

Zero expectations for Colgate. Just cash the check and come home healthy.

[Libertine]

Wow, nice win for Lafayette and the PL!

Congrats to Lafayette!

I didn't watch the game, just saw the box score and I'm curious. How in hell do you complete 8 passes for 8 yards? AND win? That's amazing by itself!

[Franks Tanks]

Congrats to Lafayette!

I didn't watch the game, just saw the box score and I'm curious. How in hell do you complete 8 passes for 8 yards? AND win? That's amazing by itself!

QB play was very ugly. Pard’s had a semblance of a running game, but with no pass threat SHU stacked the box.

Gotta think Lafayette looks to Davis next week (or Angelos) at QB. Both started games last year and while not impressive, were somewhat competent. Davis can run as well.

Pard’s D was very impressive.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Bucknell hanging tough with Towson

0-0 3:32 2Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Is anyone paying attention to the fight the Bison are putting forth against Towson? I have no idea how good/bad the Tigers were expected to be but even so, Bucknell was horrific last year. Not hyperbole when I say one of the very worst FCS teams I have ever seen.

0-0 8:18 3Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Tigers take the lead 7-0 but Bucknell responds with a long run at the end of the 3rd quarter. They'll have first and goal at the Tiger's 1 to start the 4th....

Towson 7-0 End 3Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

TD Bison!

7-7 14:21 4Q

[Fordham]

Cmon Bucknell!!!

[crusader11]

Towson was picked to finish towards the bottom of the CAA…but one would think that’s still much higher than the bottom of the PL. great showing.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The Bison block Towson's 38 yard FG attempt!

7-7 8:42 4Q

[crusader11]

Bucknell with the ball midway through the 4th knotted at 7. Wow. Didn’t see this one happening.

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 0
Stanford 7
End 1st

Cardinal got on the board with the first play, a 78 yard TD run. Raiders have done better since then, taking advantage of Stanford mistakes (touching a punt and a fumble). Two good opportunities ended in missed FGs for Colgate.

No video, just radio, because why make the Pac-12 Network easily accessible for people not in the conference footprint

[crusader11]

Colgate ties it up at 7!

Taking advantage of yet another muffed punt by Stanford, recovering the ball in the end zone for a TD.

[TheValleyRaider]

First play of the quarter, Stanford fumbles the punt return, Colgate recovers in the end zone!

7-7
14:48 2nd

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

They're headed to OT in Lewisburg! This is a Gadd-esque defensive performance by the Bison...

This has been the best opening weekend for the PL in several years. Granted, the bar has been set very, VERY low.....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Towson gets the ball first, Ambrose opts to go for a 4th and 8, Tigers convert then score a TD...

14-7 with the Bison to get their shot....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Bucknell scores but misses the XP...omg!...devastating way to lose...

Towson 14 Bucknell 13 Final

[crusader11]

Kickers, man.

Brutal.

Missed PAT and Bucknell loses 14-13.

Argument could have been made Cecchini should have gone for the win…

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Kickers, man.

Brutal.

Missed PAT and Bucknell loses 14-13.

Argument could have been made Cecchini should have gone for the win…

I would have went for two! A missed XP cost ECU today against NC State and nearly cost Lafayette...

[crusader11]

I would have went for two! A missed XP cost ECU today against NC State and nearly cost Lafayette...

It’s tough.

It’s the right call if you convert and wrong call if you don’t.

Bucknell’s defense was playing so well that Cecchini probably felt confident they could come up with a stop on the next series. That was a gut punch to watch.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It’s tough.

It’s the right call if you convert and wrong call if you don’t.

Bucknell’s defense was playing so well that Cecchini probably felt confident they could come up with a stop on the next series. That was a gut punch to watch.

Saw Bucknell is at VMI and at Central Michigan next. I'm interested to see how they respond. Based on what I saw they should have a shot down in Lexington....

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 7
Stanford 28
Halftime

This started to get away from the Raiders a bit. Got some big plays from the Stanford O, the offense has struggled to move the ball, the Cardinal opening this one up.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate 7
Stanford 28
Halftime

This started to get away from the Raiders a bit. Got some big plays from the Stanford O, the offense has struggled to move the ball, the Cardinal opening this one up.

The point differential in Colgate's FBS games have been bad. I wish they could find a way to avoid these payday beat downs.

[DFW HOYA]

The point differential in Colgate's FBS games have been bad. I wish they could find a way to avoid these payday beat downs.

If you have a choice to play 1) at Stanford, 2) at Merrimack, or 3) at Marist on week one, take Stanford.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If you have a choice to play 1) at Stanford, 2) at Merrimack, or 3) at Marist on week one, take Stanford.

If you care about financial gain over competing for a win against a peer, yes. Colgate has proven over the year's they're simply in the FBS prostitution game. They're happy with the role of a tomato can. I personally care more about winning...

[Libertine]

I personally care more about winning...

...said the Lehigh and Temple fan. xsmiley_wix

[TheValleyRaider]

If you care about financial gain over competing for a win against a peer, yes. Colgate has proven over the year's they're simply in the FBS prostitution game. They're happy with the role of a tomato can. I personally care more about winning...

The irony of this coming from a Lehigh fan... ;)

Colgate likes the games for the experience. Talked to a few players over the summer and they were pretty jazzed at the opportunity to go out to California. We did play Army pretty well in 2018, though that was a pretty good team overall.

Otherwise the Raiders have pretty much excised NEC and PFL games. In the last 4 full seasons Colgate has played Stony Brook, William & Mary, Villanova, Maine, New Hampshire, Cal Poly, Richmond, and Furman OOC.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The irony of this coming from a Lehigh fan... ;)

Colgate likes the games for the experience. Talked to a few players over the summer and they were pretty jazzed at the opportunity to go out to California. We did play Army pretty well in 2018, though that was a pretty good team overall.

Otherwise the Raiders have pretty much excised NEC and PFL games. In the last 4 full seasons Colgate has played Stony Brook, William & Mary, Villanova, Maine, New Hampshire, Cal Poly, Richmond, and Furman OOC.

Lehigh and the PL are a proven Villanova punching bag!

2018 was a special Colgate team. But generally, the last 15 years these FBS games have not been competitive.

Holy Cross definitely has a shot to push Buffalo for 4 quarters next week and I think Lafayette can be competitive against an atrocious Temple team.

[DFW HOYA]

If you care about financial gain over competing for a win against a peer, yes. Colgate has proven over the year's they're simply in the FBS prostitution game. They're happy with the role of a tomato can. I personally care more about winning...

I care about program visibility, alumni relations, and recruiting. The opportunity to visit alumni and recruit student-athletes in the Bay Area is certainly a better opportunity than a Saturday in Poughkeepsie.

[crusader11]

Colgate's football program and alumni had a much better time in Palo Alto today than Georgetown in Poughkeepsie for many reasons.

This is not debatable.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate's football program and alumni had a much better time in Palo Alto today than Georgetown in Poughkeepsie for many reasons.

This is not debatable.

But Georgetown playing in Poughkeepsie is a byproduct of their overall commitment to the football. As a non-scholarship program they're simply not an attractive opponent to host given their non-qualifier status. Given their brand recognition I am sure several academic minded FBS programs would gladly schedule them.

While there is tremendous value in "playing up" from a marketing standpoint, I still question using clearly inferior players to go go out, get smacked around to facilitate such an institutional initiative. At the end of the day, the players are simply being pimped out for cash. You can spin it anyway you want but they're doing athletic department work in order to generate income. This isn't about winning a game.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

BTW, score is "only" 28-10 so nothing too bad. Nor did I expect Colgate to get truly embarrassed. Just a token FBS loss and move on. I just want to see them actually have a chance to win a FBS game...

[DFW HOYA]

But Georgetown playing in Poughkeepsie is a byproduct of their overall commitment to the football. As a non-scholarship program they're simply not an attractive opponent to host given their non-qualifier status. Given their brand recognition I am sure several academic minded FBS programs would gladly schedule them.

Georgetown does not disclose its equivalency number, but it's not 0. NEC teams have a 40 scholarship limit but seem to get FBS games because they count athletic need-based aid. Then again, Georgetown doesn't get any interest from CAA, SoCon, OVC, MVFC, etc. opponents either.

I'm rowing upstream on this one but after 20 years in the PL, Marist should not be on the schedule.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Are you sure they are a non-qualifier?

What is their equivalency number?

Either they are are a qualifier and they choose not to pursue FBS games or they are not a qualifier which makes them not attractive to FBS opponents. Either way, from afar it would appear but possibilities fall at the feet of Georgetown leadership?

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 10
Stanford 28
End 3rd

Game has stagnated a bit, better from Colgate overall. Did get a FG, but Stanford is driving, inside the 10

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 10
Stanford 41
Final

Got pulled away during the 4th quarter, not sure I missed much more. Raiders didn't get enough out of 4 Stanford turnovers to make it interesting. Come home, reset, go up to Orono next Saturday

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate 10
Stanford 41
Final

Got pulled away during the 4th quarter, not sure I missed much more. Raiders didn't get enough out of 4 Stanford turnovers to make it interesting. Come home, reset, go up to Orono next Saturday

Colgate's next 3 games...

at Maine, at Penn then home against Holy Cross. Good chance their season will be defined before October 1st....

[Go...gate]

If you care about financial gain over competing for a win against a peer, yes. Colgate has proven over the year's they're simply in the FBS prostitution game. They're happy with the role of a tomato can. I personally care more about winning...

Not a very classy thing to say.

[Go...gate]

Colgate 10
Stanford 28
End 3rd

Game has stagnated a bit, better from Colgate overall. Did get a FG, but Stanford is driving, inside the 10

Kicking game seems spotty at best.

[Go...gate]

The irony of this coming from a Lehigh fan... ;)

Colgate likes the games for the experience. Talked to a few players over the summer and they were pretty jazzed at the opportunity to go out to California. We did play Army pretty well in 2018, though that was a pretty good team overall.

Otherwise the Raiders have pretty much excised NEC and PFL games. In the last 4 full seasons Colgate has played Stony Brook, William & Mary, Villanova, Maine, New Hampshire, Cal Poly, Richmond, and Furman OOC.

Yep. We've been playing "stretch games" since before the days of Andy Kerr. The players have always been for it.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Colgate's next 3 games...

at Maine, at Penn then home against Holy Cross. Good chance their season will be defined before October 1st....

Remember this is the Patriot League where you could start out 0-5 and end up in Durham, NH the Saturday after Thanksgiving for a playoff game.

[crusader11]

Holy Cross definitely has a shot to push Buffalo for 4 quarters next week and I think Lafayette can be competitive against an atrocious Temple team.

No reason our game against Buffalo next week shouldn't be very competitive. Weren't too impressed with their showing against Buffalo. Very interested to see what the line is for this one. AIR, HC was +5.5 against UConn last year. I expect they'll be somewhere between 6 and 10 point dogs against Buffalo.

I didn't realize just how badly Temple has fallen. Rod Carey really drove that program into the ground in a matter of three years, huh?

The bottom half of the AAC isn't great football, and Temple was picked to finish dead last. If they can find an offense in a week's time, they should be in that game.

[Bill]

If you care about financial gain over competing for a win against a peer, yes. Colgate has proven over the year's they're simply in the FBS prostitution game. They're happy with the role of a tomato can. I personally care more about winning...

I'm love that Colgate schedules up...but I think you are missing one key element here. Colgate does NOT consider Marist or Merrimack their academic peers...but they do consider as peers(or aspire) to be more like Stanford, Duke, etc. It's not like Colgate is playing UGA:)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Not a very classy thing to say.

Nor is it classy for the athletic department to schedule games for the sole purpose of generating revenue when you're already an extremely wealthy, privileged institution. IMO, these players deserve a cut of the cash since they are acting with the sole purpose of improving the bottom line.

This is something I intend to research further as part of my doctoral work within higher education; i.e. as "it" relates to various pay for play avenues relating to legal, ethical and evolving social concerns....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Remember this is the Patriot League where you could start out 0-5 and end up in Durham, NH the Saturday after Thanksgiving for a playoff game.

True, but that is not advancing the league or program. Rather, reaffirming the league's deficiencies. For Colgate's and the league's sake I really hope that does not happen. The last thing the league needs is another 2013 Lafayette or 2017 Lehigh. Both of those teams had zero business in the playoff......

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'm love that Colgate schedules up...but I think you are missing one key element here. Colgate does NOT consider Marist or Merrimack their academic peers...but they do consider as peers(or aspire) to be more like Stanford, Duke, etc. It's not like Colgate is playing UGA:)

Colgate is too intelligent to consider Stanford an academic peer. Colgate has WAY more in common with the D3 NESCAC schools than they do Stanford.....

[DFW HOYA]

Colgate is too intelligent to consider Stanford an academic peer. Colgate has WAY more in common with the D3 NESCAC schools than they do Stanford.....

Every school has an identified group of institutional peers - some schools disclose it, some tend to keep it more private, but it tends to be a peer group trustees and directors look carefully among. For example, here are Bucknell's peers:

Colgate
Davidson
Dartmouth
Furman
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Middlebury
Trinity CT
Richmond
Villanova
Wake Forest
William and Mary

https://www.bucknell.edu/azdirectory/institutional-research-planning/peer-group-institutions

[crusader11]

Nor is it classy for the athletic department to schedule games for the sole purpose of generating revenue when you're already an extremely wealthy, privileged institution. IMO, these players deserve a cut of the cash since they are acting with the sole purpose of improving the bottom line.

This is something I intend to research further as part of my doctoral work within higher education; i.e. as "it" relates to various pay for play avenues relating to legal, ethical and evolving social concerns....

Ask any player on Colgate and they'd tell you they'd rather play Stanford than an NEC/PFL school.

[Pards Rule]

Fordham 45 at Wagner 20 - DeMorat is likely to put up gaudy numbers this season. He throws for 4 TDs in an early season cakewalk.

Lehigh 13 at Villanova 27 - Make or break year for Gilmore. I'm betting Lehigh's positive feelings to conclude last season carry over to this year and they give Villanova a decent game. Lehigh's defense is supposed to be pretty good this year.

Holy Cross 34 at Merrimack 13 - In probably the most bizarre game/score of the Chesney era at HC (a 35-21 loss last year), HC gets some revenge in North Andover.

Georgetown 24 at Marist 21 - Don't know one iota about Marist, but going 5-5 last year and picked in the bottom half of the PFL leads me to believe they're somewhere between bad to average. I'll be a PL homer and give the Hoyas an edge.

Sacred Heart 20 at Lafayette 21 - New era in Easton gets off in a good way at the 'Pards pull a slight upset.

Towson 45 at Bucknell 14 - This figures to be ugly. Bucknell looked like they didn't want to be playing football at times last season.

Colgate 13 at Stanford 38 - Take the paycheck and get home safely. Shaw calls off the dogs in the second half and this one looks a bit more respectable on the scoreboard.

You were right!

- - - Updated - - -


Fordham 45 at Wagner 20 - DeMorat is likely to put up gaudy numbers this season. He throws for 4 TDs in an early season cakewalk.

Lehigh 13 at Villanova 27 - Make or break year for Gilmore. I'm betting Lehigh's positive feelings to conclude last season carry over to this year and they give Villanova a decent game. Lehigh's defense is supposed to be pretty good this year.

Holy Cross 34 at Merrimack 13 - In probably the most bizarre game/score of the Chesney era at HC (a 35-21 loss last year), HC gets some revenge in North Andover.

Georgetown 24 at Marist 21 - Don't know one iota about Marist, but going 5-5 last year and picked in the bottom half of the PFL leads me to believe they're somewhere between bad to average. I'll be a PL homer and give the Hoyas an edge.

Sacred Heart 20 at Lafayette 21 - New era in Easton gets off in a good way at the 'Pards pull a slight upset.

Towson 45 at Bucknell 14 - This figures to be ugly. Bucknell looked like they didn't want to be playing football at times last season.

Colgate 13 at Stanford 38 - Take the paycheck and get home safely. Shaw calls off the dogs in the second half and this one looks a bit more respectable on the scoreboard.

You were right!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Ask any player on Colgate and they'd tell you they'd rather play Stanford than an NEC/PFL school.

And I bet if you ask them where they would rather play at/attend they would say Stanford, Northwestern, Wake Forest etc. But circumstances have led them to play at the institution/level they are currently at.

I do not have a problem with scheduling FBS games when there is some reason to believe there will be a competitive game. However, when the fundamental game based on its competitive design have the clear optics/evidence of a facade hiding a blatant cash grab further inquiry is needed. This has always been a dynamic that has fascinated me. Especially since I rarely see FCS teams (especially PL) schools schedule D2 or D3 programs. If a significant driving force is related to opening up more opportunities for all student athletes to experience a bigger, "better" environment why is there not a more uniform approach? What is the threshold for ensuring equitable student-athlete experiences? Should FBS vs FCS game payouts be more uniform in nature?

[Pards Rule]

Yep. We've been playing "stretch games" since before the days of Andy Kerr. The players have always been for it.

And good! I believe in stretch games. A year ago today I watched Lafayette at Air Force (furthest west game ever for Pards) and what a great performance by Lafayette. Lost by 21 (spread 44) with the Falcons scoring after a TO by Lafayette around midfield trying to make it a 7 point game! Air Force ran back the interception but were called for a clip and they eventually scored with exactly 6 minutes left. We were roundly congratulated by the Force fans after the game. Glad I made that trek. I tacked on a Mountain West vaca after. Colorado Springs where I went up Pikes Peak (never knew about vapor lock!), Cheyenne on my way to SD and Rushmore, Black Hills, Badlands and stayed in Deadwood at historic Franklin Hotel there. Also drove an hour out of way to Alzada MT to cross MT off 50 state list! Next Saturday the Pards play Temple (first time since 70s!) at the Linc!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Every school has an identified group of institutional peers - some schools disclose it, some tend to keep it more private, but it tends to be a peer group trustees and directors look carefully among. For example, here are Bucknell's peers:

Colgate
Davidson
Dartmouth
Furman
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Middlebury
Trinity CT
Richmond
Villanova
Wake Forest
William and Mary

https://www.bucknell.edu/azdirectory/institutional-research-planning/peer-group-institutions

Here is Lehigh's list. Stanford doesn't make their current or aspiration peer group. But Dayton, Baylor, Loyola (Chicago), Syracuse, Clemson, UConn do as peers and U Chicago, CalTech, Duke, Southern Cal and Notre Dame do for "aspirationals".....

https://confluence.cc.lehigh.edu/display/LTSHD/Lehigh+comparable+and+aspirational+peers

[crusader11]

However, when the fundamental game based on its competitive design have the clear optics/evidence of a facade hiding a blatant cash grab further inquiry is needed.

Don't believe that to be the case, at least in this instance.

You are totally disregarding factors such as: Furthering the Colgate brand, tapping into a market they want to play more in (west coast), opportunity for west coast alums to reconnect with the school (i.e. fundraising), associating themselves with a school (Stanford) in which they may want to be in the same circle with for prospective students (albeit prospective Stanford students using Colgate as a safety school), football recruiting on the west coast, etc.

There are a number of reasons this game is great for Colgate, the paycheck aside.

And while Stanford beat them handily, I watched about half the game and it's not like Colgate embarrassed themselves.

[crusader11]

You were right!

- - - Updated - - -



A 7-0 sweep! A wonder what a seven game moneyline parlay would have paid.

Had good reads on all games with the exception of Bucknell and Georgetown -- glad to have been proven wrong and our PL brothers stepped up with good showings.

[Pards Rule]

Don't believe that to be the case, at least in this instance.

You are totally disregarding factors such as: Furthering the Colgate brand, tapping into a market they want to play more in (west coast), opportunity for west coast alums to reconnect with the school (i.e. fundraising), associating themselves with a school (Stanford) in which they may want to be in the same circle with for prospective students (albeit prospective Stanford students using Colgate as a safety school), football recruiting on the west coast, etc.

There are a number of reasons this game is great for Colgate, the paycheck aside.

And while Stanford beat them handily, I watched about half the game and it's not like Colgate embarrassed themselves.

What was the payout to Colgate? I recall hearing in 2011 when I went to Fargo that LC got $125K, free NDSU plane rides from ABE, free hotel and food. Not sure the academies can pay out like LC at Air Force a year ago today??

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Don't believe that to be the case, at least in this instance.

You are totally disregarding factors such as: Furthering the Colgate brand, tapping into a market they want to play more in (west coast), opportunity for west coast alums to reconnect with the school (i.e. fundraising), associating themselves with a school (Stanford) in which they may want to be in the same circle with for prospective students (albeit prospective Stanford students using Colgate as a safety school), football recruiting on the west coast, etc.

There are a number of reasons this game is great for Colgate, the paycheck aside.

And while Stanford beat them handily, I watched about half the game and it's not like Colgate embarrassed themselves.

I mentioned the marketing component before. It's FAR more about furthering a business plan than it is a game plan.

Colgate did not get blown off the field. I predicted 41-7 and it was 41-10. But the game was never in doubt since the Cardinal jumped on the Raiders early then coasted to the finish line.

Holy Cross has a real shot against Buffalo. Fordham has the talent to push a struggling Ohio Bobcat program dealing with life after Solich....

Lehigh rarely participates in FBS games given their institutional thought process. I wish I knew their "thinking" in more detail.....

[Go...gate]

I'm love that Colgate schedules up...but I think you are missing one key element here. Colgate does NOT consider Marist or Merrimack their academic peers...but they do consider as peers(or aspire) to be more like Stanford, Duke, etc. It's not like Colgate is playing UGA:)

Yes, that is correct.

[Go...gate]

Nor is it classy for the athletic department to schedule games for the sole purpose of generating revenue when you're already an extremely wealthy, privileged institution. IMO, these players deserve a cut of the cash since they are acting with the sole purpose of improving the bottom line.

This is something I intend to research further as part of my doctoral work within higher education; i.e. as "it" relates to various pay for play avenues relating to legal, ethical and evolving social concerns....

Respectfully, Colgate was not always a "wealthy, privileged institution", and as we have discussed numerous times on this very forum, Colgate has a history of encouraging its students and athletes to test themselves against the best level of competition. I know it made a difference for me.

[Go...gate]

And I bet if you ask them where they would rather play at/attend they would say Stanford, Northwestern, Wake Forest etc. But circumstances have led them to play at the institution/level they are currently at.

I do not have a problem with scheduling FBS games when there is some reason to believe there will be a competitive game. However, when the fundamental game based on its competitive design have the clear optics/evidence of a facade hiding a blatant cash grab further inquiry is needed. This has always been a dynamic that has fascinated me. Especially since I rarely see FCS teams (especially PL) schools schedule D2 or D3 programs. If a significant driving force is related to opening up more opportunities for all student athletes to experience a bigger, "better" environment why is there not a more uniform approach? What is the threshold for ensuring equitable student-athlete experiences? Should FBS vs FCS game payouts be more uniform in nature?

You sound like the administrators that intended, and damn near succeeded, in taking Colgate to Division III between about 1982-1999. Presidents like George Langdon, Neil Grabois, Charles "Buddy" Karelis and Athletic Directors like Dave Roach. Thankfully, they failed and moved on. They made Arthur Rothkopf look good.

[Fordham]

You sound like the administrators that intended, and damn near succeeded, in taking Colgate to Division III between about 1982-1999. Presidents like George Langdon, Neil Grabois, Charles "Buddy" Karelis and Athletic Directors like Dave Roach. Thankfully, they failed and moved on. They made Arthur Rothkopf look good.

Roach was the absolute WORST!!!

I have to say that the coaches and players at Fordham are way in favor of playing these games and we played in arguably the goofiest, lopsided matchup in PL history last year v Nebraska. Even then the players loved it, the coaches said it helped tremendously with recruiting, alums loved it and, yes, we got a much needed pay day. LU T, I would agree with you if this was all strictly an admin’s fiscal decision thrust upon an unwilling staff, team and alumni base but that’s just not the case.

My only other point is that as much as the financials aren’t the only reason for playing, it’s still important imo. There’s a reason football in the Northeast is dying and it’s easy for institutions to look at the cost and title ix impact of football and decide it’s either not worth it to have a program or that they should just drop to D3. Managing that budget responsibly and also making sure ex players continue to show their interest and involvement in sustaining it are critical imo. Just mentioning because your line makes it sound like Colgate has all these excess funds floating around and they just need to choose to sprinkle more on football and I would argue that’s not the case

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You sound like the administrators that intended, and damn near succeeded, in taking Colgate to Division III between about 1982-1999. Presidents like George Langdon, Neil Grabois, Charles "Buddy" Karelis and Athletic Directors like Dave Roach. Thankfully, they failed and moved on. They made Arthur Rothkopf look good.

I am not suggesting anything of the sort, nor even close. Simply I am not impressed with non-competitive games against a non-peer. I am also curious from an athletic department standpoint the nuances of the "student-athlete experience". How is it defined and is there consideration for the opponent's "student-athlete experience"?

I am really looking forward to Holy Cross's game this week against I-90 mate Buffalo! Likewise, I think Lafayette will put up a respectable fight when they make the 75 mile trip south to the Linc to play regional foe Temple.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I am not suggesting anything of the sort, nor even close. Simply I am not impressed with non-competitive games against a non-peer. I am also curious from an athletic department standpoint the nuances of the "student-athlete experience". How is it defined and is there consideration for the opponent's "student-athlete experience"?

I am really looking forward to Holy Cross's game this week against I-90 mate Buffalo! Likewise, I think Lafayette will put up a respectable fight when they make the 75 mile trip south to the Linc to play regional foe Temple.

AH'D UH THOUGHT.....GEORGETOWN PIGSTERS.....WOOD KNOW WHAT TA EXPECT.....B/COMIN' UH HOYA.........SO PUT UH HOLD ON DUH PLASTIC TROPHYS.........FO' SUITIN' UP......AWK!

[Go...gate]

I am not suggesting anything of the sort, nor even close. Simply I am not impressed with non-competitive games against a non-peer. I am also curious from an athletic department standpoint the nuances of the "student-athlete experience". How is it defined and is there consideration for the opponent's "student-athlete experience"?

I am really looking forward to Holy Cross's game this week against I-90 mate Buffalo! Likewise, I think Lafayette will put up a respectable fight when they make the 75 mile trip south to the Linc to play regional foe Temple.

Your not being impressed with "non-competitive games against a non-peer", while certainly your prerogative, is misguided.

First, Colgate hardly embarrassed itself. We played a stronger club and lost, which happens in athletics all the time. Hell, we might lose 41-10 to the Engineers later this fall!

Second, Colgate has historically considered its "peers" to be a diverse group of institutions. Needless to say, we have a long relationship with the schools of the Ivy League andremain their most-played opponent (notably, Brown and Colgate were both founded by members of the same Baptist theological society and still enjoy a close and cordial relationship). However, during the period when my late brother and I attended Colgate (roughly 1966 - 1984), I can state with certainty that Colgate considered its peers to be Brown, Dartmouth, Princeton, Rutgers, Boston University, NYU, Northwestern, Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Bucknell, Holy Cross, Lafayette, Lehigh (though we only started playing you guys annually in the early 1960s - Lehigh replaced Syracuse after the teams agreed to stop their football series), Middlebury, Trinity, Rochester, RPI, Clarkson, St. Lawrence and a few others.

Third, with regard to intersectional games against larger schools, Colgate is, in fact, a pioneer, Nearly 100 years ago, and long before the commencement of the Notre Dame-Southern California series began, in 1923, Colgate played THE Ohio State University in Columbus and tied the Buckeyes, 23-23. The following year, we traveled to Lincoln, Nebraska - an unheard-of road trip at the time - to play the Cornhuskers and lost, 33-7. Thereafter, we played games against the likes of Wisconsin, Michigan State, Indiana, Michigan State, Iowa, Illinois and others. Invariably, up to the present, coaches and players found the big intersectional matchups a benefit to team morale and performance, especially in subsequent games. School spirit benefitted as well. The experiences have categorically NOT been detrimental to the ''nuances of the student-athlete experience".

This is why I take great issue with your assertion that Colgate is somehow whoring itself to play games against FBS opponents.

[Bill]

Go Gate,

My dad - class of '67 (I think, may be off a year) and brother, class of '98 both feel exactly as you do...especially my father. The alumni of the earlier era totally consider Stanford and the others listed (he likes to include Duke too) to be academic peers, and are THRILLED at these FBS games regardless of the score.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Your not being impressed with "non-competitive games against a non-peer", while certainly your prerogative, is misguided.

First, Colgate hardly embarrassed itself. We played a stronger club and lost, which happens in athletics all the time. Hell, we might lose 41-10 to the Engineers later this fall!

Second, Colgate has historically considered its "peers" to be a diverse group of institutions. Needless to say, we have a long relationship with the schools of the Ivy League andremain their most-played opponent (notably, Brown and Colgate were both founded by members of the same Baptist theological society and still enjoy a close and cordial relationship). However, during the period when my late brother and I attended Colgate (roughly 1966 - 1984), I can state with certainty that Colgate considered its peers to be Brown, Dartmouth, Princeton, Rutgers, Boston University, NYU, Northwestern, Rice, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Bucknell, Holy Cross, Lafayette, Lehigh (though we only started playing you guys annually in the early 1960s - Lehigh replaced Syracuse after the teams agreed to stop their football series), Middlebury, Trinity, Rochester, RPI, Clarkson, St. Lawrence and a few others.

Third, with regard to intersectional games against larger schools, Colgate is, in fact, a pioneer, Nearly 100 years ago, and long before the commencement of the Notre Dame-Southern California series began, in 1923, Colgate played THE Ohio State University in Columbus and tied the Buckeyes, 23-23. The following year, we traveled to Lincoln, Nebraska - an unheard-of road trip at the time - to play the Cornhuskers and lost, 33-7. Thereafter, we played games against the likes of Wisconsin, Michigan State, Indiana, Michigan State, Iowa, Illinois and others. Invariably, up to the present, coaches and players found the big intersectional matchups a benefit to team morale and performance, especially in subsequent games. School spirit benefitted as well. The experiences have categorically NOT been detrimental to the ''nuances of the student-athlete experience".

This is why I take great issue with your assertion that Colgate is somehow whoring itself to play games against FBS opponents.

Playing a PAC-12 school 3,000 miles away as a 40 point underdog is done so for profit. "Whoring" out might be strong, used for emphasis, but nevertheless that verbiage drives home the fact this was not about winning/losing a game against a competitive/academic/regional peer. As you mentioned, Tulane, Rice (who got crushed by USC), Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Rutgers etc. are institutions that check more boxes than Stanford does.

For a league that has struggled as mightily as the PL, where winning records have become more scarce than playoff wins, I simply cannot wrap my head around taking on a sure loss against a P5 FBS program 3,000 miles away when the league desperately needs to regain some traction in its own subdivision. As I have rehashed before, scheduling tough is when there is something to be gained or lost. It's not taking on games where virtually noone gives you a chance to win. I really hope for the sake of Colgate and the PL the Raiders do not go O-fer in September. They and Lehigh need to get back to their winning ways!

Beat Maine!!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Go Gate,

My dad - class of '67 (I think, may be off a year) and brother, class of '98 both feel exactly as you do...especially my father. The alumni of the earlier era totally consider Stanford and the others listed (he likes to include Duke too) to be academic peers, and are THRILLED at these FBS games regardless of the score.

I am sorry but that is delusional. It just is. I do not care what era it was....

[Go...gate]

I am sorry but that is delusional. It just is. I do not care what era it was....

Sorry, but it is not delusional. It is fact.

Good luck to the Engineers in their next game.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Sorry, but it is not delusional. It is fact.

Good luck to the Engineers in their next game,

Colgate is/was an academic peer of Stanford? Based on what metric? Please provide sourced evidence.

I am extremely interested in this topic as it relates to institutional positioning; especially pertaining to student-athlete counseling/advisement/support systems.

[Go...gate]

Roach was the absolute WORST!!!

I have to say that the coaches and players at Fordham are way in favor of playing these games and we played in arguably the goofiest, lopsided matchup in PL history last year v Nebraska. Even then the players loved it, the coaches said it helped tremendously with recruiting, alums loved it and, yes, we got a much needed pay day. LU T, I would agree with you if this was all strictly an admin’s fiscal decision thrust upon an unwilling staff, team and alumni base but that’s just not the case.

My only other point is that as much as the financials aren’t the only reason for playing, it’s still important imo. There’s a reason football in the Northeast is dying and it’s easy for institutions to look at the cost and title ix impact of football and decide it’s either not worth it to have a program or that they should just drop to D3. Managing that budget responsibly and also making sure ex players continue to show their interest and involvement in sustaining it are critical imo. Just mentioning because your line makes it sound like Colgate has all these excess funds floating around and they just need to choose to sprinkle more on football and I would argue that’s not the case

He surely was. Took Colgate's out of conference scheduling right down the tubes. He had a "fever" for home and home games against the NEC and ticked off much of the Ivy League. We get three (3) games against the Ivy next year, and we have Penn and Brown back on the schedule, which is progress. It may be a while before Princeton plays us again, though.

[Go...gate]

Colgate is/was an academic peer of Stanford? Based on what metric? Please provide sourced evidence.

I am extremely interested in this topic as it relates to institutional positioning; especially pertaining to student-athlete counseling/advisement/support systems.

I am extremely interested in your preoccupation with "student-athlete counseling/advisement/support systems". Are you implying that Colgate's student athletes are somehow coddled during their time at school and, once they have graduated, cannot obtain employment? If this is your thesis, please provide your own objective evidence.

As far as institutional positioning is concerned, Colgate is a top tier institution by every known metric. Stanford and Lehigh are no different.

[Go...gate]

AH'D UH THOUGHT.....GEORGETOWN PIGSTERS.....WOOD KNOW WHAT TA EXPECT.....B/COMIN' UH HOYA.........SO PUT UH HOLD ON DUH PLASTIC TROPHYS.........FO' SUITIN' UP......AWK!

Mr, Chicken, when I was out with a stroke these last couple years, one of the things I REALLY missed was this board and ESPECIALLY your posts. They are always insightful and always give me a smile.

[Go...gate]

Go Gate,

My dad - class of '67 (I think, may be off a year) and brother, class of '98 both feel exactly as you do...especially my father. The alumni of the earlier era totally consider Stanford and the others listed (he likes to include Duke too) to be academic peers, and are THRILLED at these FBS games regardless of the score.

I wish we had a few more Colgate people on here.

[TheValleyRaider]

Playing a PAC-12 school 3,000 miles away as a 40 point underdog is done so for profit. "Whoring" out might be strong, used for emphasis, but nevertheless that verbiage drives home the fact this was not about winning/losing a game against a competitive/academic/regional peer. As you mentioned, Tulane, Rice (who got crushed by USC), Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Rutgers etc. are institutions that check more boxes than Stanford does.

Wait, you object to playing Stanford, but Northwestern (Big Ten) and Vanderbilt (SEC) make more sense?

I get you don't see the value here, but I don't see how the Patriot League's reputation is hurt because Colgate lost to Stanford. As you point out, losing to Maine or Penn in the next few weeks would hurt the League. Would it really be better to replace Stanford with Marist or Wagner?

Players like the game, coaches like it, fans/alumni like it, and that's good enough for Colgate.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Wait, you object to playing Stanford, but Northwestern (Big Ten) and Vanderbilt (SEC) make more sense?

I get you don't see the value here, but I don't see how the Patriot League's reputation is hurt because Colgate lost to Stanford. As you point out, losing to Maine or Penn in the next few weeks would hurt the League. Would it really be better to replace Stanford with Marist or Wagner?

Players like the game, coaches like it, fans/alumni like it, and that's good enough for Colgate.

Simply from a geographic standpoint Northwestern is a pretty easy game to get to. I can have breakfast in Northeast PA drive to Chicago and enjoy an evening dinner in the Loop. Overall though, I would be hesitant to schedule the Wildcats since they've had some darn good teams over the last 25 years or so. As for Vanderbilt, they have a long history of futility. ETSU smacked them around last year in Nashville and a meh Elon team hung pretty tough with them this year. Plus, Nashville is a great place to spend a weekend imo!

Stanford, from the league affiliation to their academic pedigree is simply on another level. It just is. Even relative to Duke, Northwestern and Vanderbilt imo. I am trying to identify a practical "reach" doctoral program to apply to in addition to Kansas State and DePaul; Northwestern's HDSP program is very much in play. To provide context based on sound advice; I couldn't justify the time to put my name on Stanford's application. Just literally no chance in hell. Likewise Penn and Harvard. The big difference obviously is the fact Stanford competes at the highest level of college athletics across the board compared to the Ivies.

From a Lehigh perspective, reasonable reach P5 FBS games should the program return to its winning ways? Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Boston College, Rutgers, Virginia, Maryland. With Syracuse, Pitt, Purdue, Northwestern and Virginia Tech as maybes?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I am extremely interested in your preoccupation with "student-athlete counseling/advisement/support systems". Are you implying that Colgate's student athletes are somehow coddled during their time at school and, once they have graduated, cannot obtain employment? If this is your thesis, please provide your own objective evidence.

As far as institutional positioning is concerned, Colgate is a top tier institution by every known metric. Stanford and Lehigh are no different.

Colgate is a liberal arts institution while Lehigh and Stanford are national universities. It's literally a completely different classification of institutions! I am not trying to be difficult but there is no one on earth that has Colgate as a peer institution of Stanford. They are VASTLY different. Hell, Lehigh has virtually nothing in common with Stanford outside of maybe some very specific undergrad/grad engineering programs? Lehigh desperately needs to increase their masters and doctoral offerings! Until Lehigh does they will not elevate to the Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, NYU etc. level. let alone the top-tier Ivies and Stanford.

Check your PM....

[crusader11]

Owl, time to take the L on this one.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Owl, time to take the L on this one.

Based on what?

That Colgate vs Stanford is a good game for BOTH sides? Or Colgate is an academic peer of Stanford?

I will firmly stand my ground on both accords; especially the latter. To claim Colgate is an academic peer of Stanford is pure lunacy....

BTW, I really like Colgate! I've spent a ton of time in Hamilton and have gotten to know several individuals associated with the institution. I would take the same stance if it were Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, Holy Cross in the same shoes so to speak etc....

[ngineer]

I'm love that Colgate schedules up...but I think you are missing one key element here. Colgate does NOT consider Marist or Merrimack their academic peers...but they do consider as peers(or aspire) to be more like Stanford, Duke, etc. It's not like Colgate is playing UGA:)

Agreed. I know Lehigh is exploring a game "out west", as we do have some players from CA, AZ, TX. Just like in basketball, the teams like to make a regional visit every few years if there are students from that area. I know we're going to play Army in the next year or so, and I think getting a game at the AFA, Wake Forest, Duke, Vanderbilt, etc. would be exciting.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I found this a great nugget..


Many of these colleges probably fit better with the philosophy of Division III sports than Division I. The lower division does not allow any scholarship awards, and its members don't care about spectators or profits for their teams. But being small liberal-arts colleges competing against everyone from Princeton to the University of Kansas gives them a certain cachet, according to their officials. Without Division I sports, one says, Colgate would be Hamilton College with a worse location.

Suggs, W. (2002). The Patriot League’s Grand Experiment. Chronicle of Higher Education, 48(29).

[ngineer]

Really enjoyed the 'reporting' on the Board, here, as I have been tied up with other matters, but was able to travel to Villanova Friday night. The outcome was not surprising, but the several blown coverages that resulted in 3 'nova TD's was disconcerting, due to our experience in the secondary. I thought the team played hard and saw some definite improvement from last year on offense. the OL did a credible job considering two starters were our with injuries and replaced by freshmen. Our set of RBs were very good and Burbage had a very nice game at WR. Score should have been a bit closer, but opening games and against a #5 ranked team will result in errors being cashed in by a very good opponent who was bigger and faster. If the kids keep working and stay together like they did last year, I think there could be some pleasant surprises down the road. From experience, next week is no gimme, but the team should be of a mindset that they should win.
Congrats to the PL teams for putting up one of the best opening night showings in years!

[crusader11]

Based on what?


Based on the fact you'd be okay with Colgate playing Northwestern but not Stanford.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

Northwestern is probably better than Stanford. That game could be more lopsided.

Why would it be acceptable to play Northwestern, but not Stanford?

You are also making many assumptions for Colgate's reasoning / motivation in playing Stanford. I think it's much more than just a paycheck. Colgate could probably travel to a bunch of FBS programs for a check, but playing Stanford seems more strategic than that to me.

[Pards Rule]

Agreed. I know Lehigh is exploring a game "out west", as we do have some players from CA, AZ, TX. Just like in basketball, the teams like to make a regional visit every few years if there are students from that area. I know we're going to play Army in the next year or so, and I think getting a game at the AFA, Wake Forest, Duke, Vanderbilt, etc. would be exciting.

We start next season in Chapel Hill

[Franks Tanks]

We start next season in Chapel Hill

We have Duke actually.

Pard’s upcoming FBS games

23- Duke
24-Buffalo
25-Bowling Green
26- UCONN

[Fordham]

Based on what?

That Colgate vs Stanford is a good game for BOTH sides? Or Colgate is an academic peer of Stanford?

I will firmly stand my ground on both accords; especially the latter. To claim Colgate is an academic peer of Stanford is pure lunacy....

BTW, I really like Colgate! I've spent a ton of time in Hamilton and have gotten to know several individuals associated with the institution. I would take the same stance if it were Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, Holy Cross in the same shoes so to speak etc....
Georgetown and Fordham fans thank you for being the only PL schools you seem to consider Stanford peers, btw <no need to respond>.

[Fordham]

We have Duke actually.

Pard’s upcoming FBS games

23- Duke
24-Buffalo
25-Bowling Green
26- UCONN

Good stuff! Here's what we have so far:

23 - Buffalo
24 - Bowling Green
25 - BOSTON COLLEGE!


28 - Hawaii

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Based on the fact you'd be okay with Colgate playing Northwestern but not Stanford.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

Northwestern is probably better than Stanford. That game could be more lopsided.

Why would it be acceptable to play Northwestern, but not Stanford?

You are also making many assumptions for Colgate's reasoning / motivation in playing Stanford. I think it's much more than just a paycheck. Colgate could probably travel to a bunch of FBS programs for a check, but playing Stanford seems more strategic than that to me.

Stanford is 3k miles away. It's not an easy nor cheap place to get to for alums/fans/families etc. Chicago is both "driveable" and "flyable" from CNY which makes it a bit more of an attractive game. Both games at this point are nothing more than scheduled losses but at least one gives you an easier path to attend the loss. Plus, Colgate is somewhat in the Big 10 footprint. Granted, the traditional one....

[Gate83]

Stanford is 3k miles away. It's not an easy nor cheap place to get to for alums/fans/families etc. Chicago is both "driveable" and "flyable" from CNY which makes it a bit more of an attractive game. Both games at this point are nothing more than scheduled losses but at least one gives you an easier path to attend the loss. Plus, Colgate is somewhat in the Big 10 footprint. Granted, the traditional one....

California is Gate's 4th largest state in terms of current student population (after NY/MA/NJ). The SF Bay area has our 4th largest concentration of alumni (after NY/Boston/DC). Our alumni turnout at the game was excellent from what I've heard from those who attended. Our president got his law degree from Stanford (and I assume had a hand in getting the game scheduled).

Duly noted that you don't like our scheduling philosophy, our players and alumni love it. You can save some breath the next time the subject comes up...

[Sader87]

I really wouldn't want HC to be cannon fodder for a really high-profile FBS program like an Alabama, Ohio St, Texas etc but I wouldn't mind seeing us play historic P5 FBS rivals like BC and Syracuse as we have recently. We seem to have a good mix going forward: possible winnable games and those old rivals.

23: BC....longtime historic rival
24: nothing official yet but both Army and Syracuse have been both hinted at. (possible 12 game season).
25: Northern Illinois...trip to the Chicago-area as HC has a pretty big (for its size) alumni-base there. Another FBS game could be possible in 25.
26: Miami (Ohio) ...good academic match-up and again, Ohio has a fair amouth of HC grads.
27: nothing yet
28: nothing yet
29: San Jose St....good trip for Cali HC alums and a game in the Silicon Valley market.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I really wouldn't want HC to be cannon fodder for a really high-profile FBS program like an Alabama, Ohio St, Texas etc but I wouldn't mind seeing us play historic P5 FBS rivals like BC and Syracuse as we have recently. We seem to have a good mix going forward: possible winnable games and those old rivals.

23: BC....longtime historic rival
24: nothing official yet but both Army and Syracuse have been both hinted at. (possible 12 game season).
25: Northern Illinois...trip to the Chicago-area as HC has a pretty big (for its size) alumni-base there. Another FBS game could be possible in 25.
26: Miami (Ohio) ...good academic match-up and again, Ohio has a fair amouth of HC grads.
27: nothing yet
28: nothing yet
29: San Jose St....good trip for Cali HC alums and a game in the Silicon Valley market.

Perhaps UCONN or BC will boomerang back to us one of those years? Or opportunity to get UMASS on the schedule again...

[Go...gate]

One of these days, maybe a PL school will find its way out to South Bend to play Notre Dame.

[NY Crusader 2010]

One of these days, maybe a PL school will find its way out to South Bend to play Notre Dame.

Notre Dame is finally breaking it's FCS cherry in 2023 when they host Tennessee State. So a future game against Fordham or Holy Cross is now no longer IMPOSSIBLE.

Notre Dame v. North Dakota would also be cool (ND v. ND) with the same interlocking letters on helmets. Kind of how I always thought Delaware/Michigan would be cool because of the similar colors and same helmet design. Too bad Northeastern v. Northwestern never happened...

[DFW HOYA]

I really wouldn't want HC to be cannon fodder for a really high-profile FBS program like an Alabama, Ohio St, Texas etc but I wouldn't mind seeing us play historic P5 FBS rivals like BC and Syracuse as we have recently. We seem to have a good mix going forward: possible winnable games and those old rivals.

23: BC....longtime historic rival
24: nothing official yet but both Army and Syracuse have been both hinted at. (possible 12 game season).
25: Northern Illinois...trip to the Chicago-area as HC has a pretty big (for its size) alumni-base there. Another FBS game could be possible in 25.
26: Miami (Ohio) ...good academic match-up and again, Ohio has a fair amouth of HC grads.
27: nothing yet
28: nothing yet
29: San Jose St....good trip for Cali HC alums and a game in the Silicon Valley market.

Still better than this run of "historic rivals":

23: Brown, Columbia
24: Brown, Columbia
25: Brown, Morgan State

[Fordham]

Still better than this run of "historic rivals":

23: Brown, Columbia
24: Brown, Columbia
25: Brown, Morgan State


https://sweatpantsandcoffee.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/1200x600-Eeyore.jpg

[DFW HOYA]

Wish I had some better news on that front. Georgetown does not aim very high.

[RichH2]

Wish I had some better news on that front. Georgetown does not aim very high.

Off topic but Massey favors GU over Lehigh 20-18.