Campbell University to CAA in 2023..

[UNHWildcat18]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhDR9hV_aXU

CAA is turning into the big south..........

Don't care about the CAA conference but this is another unnecessary team to the bloated CAAFB IMHO

[centraljerseycat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhDR9hV_aXU

CAA is turning into the big south..........

Don't care about the CAA conference but this is another unnecessary team to the bloated CAAFB IMHO

Agree 100% That's why America East needs to add FCS football and take Nova, Delaware and a few others with them.

[WestCoastAggie]

Agree 100% That's why America East needs to add FCS football and take Nova, Delaware and a few others with them.

That's difficult to do when AE is losing members to the CAA.

[FUBeAR]

With almost half of the CAA Schools soon-to-be below the Mason Dixon line and some sort of scheduling regionalization almost a future certainty, does Elon lose its primary reason for joining the CAA - to expose Elon/Elon’s name/Elon’s brand to (theoretically) more wealthy Northeastern families who would pay the ‘full boat’ at Elon to send their offspring South for their college experience?

FUBeAR doesn’t think Elon’s Adminstration envisioned playing Away games in Buies Creek (Campbell), @ NC A&T, or @ Hampton when they joined the CAA.

[crusader11]

What a weird addition.

[MUHAWKS]

anyone see their recruiting class? Has to be top 5 in FCS-- multiple studs who turned down big time top 10 FBS schools..not saying it translates to wins but they have talent.

[MR. CHICKEN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhDR9hV_aXU

CAA is turning into the big south..........

Don't care about the CAA conference but this is another unnecessary team to the bloated CAAFB IMHO

COMIN'....FROM UH MEMBER....UH CAA CONFERENCE........xconfusedx......HMMMM?

[Libertine]

That's really surprising to me. I thought the SoCon would have had the foresight to snatch up Campbell first and I didn't think Elon would want a new conference rival in their backyard.

[UNHWildcat18]

That's difficult to do when AE is losing members to the CAA.

Sadly the AE is never pro-active. Just reactionary...

[MR. CHICKEN]

What a weird addition.

...OWNLAH THIN' WEIRD....IS DEY'RE DUH CAMELS..........BLUE HENS/SEA WOLVES....WHAT'S ONE MO'.....AWK!

[crusader11]

Schools like UNH, Maine, and URI have to be doing a serious eye roll.

Sure be nice if the PL had some foresight here.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Schools like UNH, Maine, and URI have to be doing a serious eye roll.

Sure be nice if the PL had some foresight here.

....NEC.....IF DEY DON'T LIKE IT.....AWK!

[FUBeAR]

That's really surprising to me. I thought the SoCon would…snatch up Campbell first
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/c2/cd/35c2cddc5b910721dfb92000e3c8ac37.gif

[FUBeAR]

Schools like UNH, Maine, and URI have to be doing a serious eye roll.Only because they’ve never had Eastern NC BBQ and it’s peppery vinegar-based infused wonderfulness. Just wait!

[UNHWildcat18]

COMIN'....FROM UH MEMBER....UH CAA CONFERENCE........xconfusedx......HMMMM?

Sorry if that was not as clear as I thought, I could care less about the CAA varsity/Olympic sports conference, I just care about the CAAFB conference

[MR. CHICKEN]

DIS....MAKES DUH CAMPBELL/DEAWARE STATE...GAME......IN DOVER........UH MUST SEE.........BRAWK!

[mainejeff]

....NEC.....IF DEY DON'T LIKE IT.....AWK!

Not sure it’s just Maine, UNH and URI doing eye rolls….AWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

.....DON'T YA'S THINK.....DUH CAA MEMBERS WOOD HAVE INPUT.....SO 'NUFF...MUSTAH CONCURRED.........DEY'RE QUIETLY OFFERIN'...O'.....SKOOLS ARE QUIETLY ASKIN'......'BRAWK!

...IFIN' TOO BLOATED.......GIVE BACK DUH FORMER MEAC'S........BRAWK!

BG10.....COOD SWELL TA 18/20.......IS WHAA' IT IS LADS!

[MR. CHICKEN]

Only because they’ve never had Eastern NC BBQ and it’s peppery vinegar-based infused wonderfulness. Just wait!

WHEN YER UH SENIOR.........YA TAKE ALL FOOD......WHIFF UH GLASS UH MILK...AN' UH FEW TABLETS......BRAWK!

[Sitting Bull]

....NEC.....IF DEY DON'T LIKE IT.....AWK!

I don’t think it’s a bad add. It’s much the same as the addition of Elon several years ago or even Monmouth earlier this year. The CAA has had a pretty good handle on schools that are upwardly trending, investing in facilities and academic profile, Campbell has been moving that way. Plus it’s in North Carolina, pretty strategic.

The question to me is if it is necessary for another add. But the world is moving that way so it sounds like a forward bet. And I think they are a better fit than Howard.

There was some similar hand wringing when Elon was brought on board several years ago from some of the northern members. Much of that frankly was ignorance (not in a condescending way) about Elon and what a rising and beautiful school it was. I think Campbell is a very similar situation.

[FUBeAR]

With almost half of the CAA Schools soon-to-be below the Mason Dixon line and some sort of scheduling regionalization almost a future certainty, does Elon lose its primary reason for joining the CAA - to expose Elon/Elon’s name/Elon’s brand to (theoretically) more wealthy Northeastern families who would pay the ‘full boat’ at Elon to send their offspring South for their college experience?

FUBeAR doesn’t think Elon’s Adminstration envisioned playing Away games in Buies Creek (Campbell), @ NC A&T, or @ Hampton when they joined the CAA.
Adding on to FUBeAR’s post above…
https://twitter.com/the__bluebloods/status/1554837110753935360

FUBeAR just doesn’t think the HighMuckyMucks at Elon intended to join the MEAC+Campbell when they exited the SoCon after 2013.

[Mocs123]

Only because they’ve never had Eastern NC BBQ and it’s peppery vinegar-based infused wonderfulness. Just wait!

I'll second that.

[Sitting Bull]

Just checking as I wasn’t sure but Campbell does have a pretty varied academic field - a law school, a medical school, pharmacy school, business school and education. So again, if looks like a decent add on the upside.

[DFW HOYA]

Agree 100% That's why America East needs to add FCS football and take Nova, Delaware and a few others with them.

http://georgetownfootball.blogspot.com/2022/03/the-case-for-patriot-football-conference.html

[caribbeanhen]

This will put the CAA at 15 teams for football in 2023.... something is going to change about that number sooner than later

[caribbeanhen]

I don’t think it’s a bad add. It’s much the same as the addition of Elon several years ago or even Monmouth earlier this year. The CAA has had a pretty good handle on schools that are upwardly trending, investing in facilities and academic profile, Campbell has been moving that way. Plus it’s in North Carolina, pretty strategic.

The question to me is if it is necessary for another add. But the world is moving that way so it sounds like a forward bet. And I think they are a better fit than Howard.

There was some similar hand wringing when Elon was brought on board several years ago from some of the northern members. Much of that frankly was ignorance (not in a condescending way) about Elon and what a rising and beautiful school it was. I think Campbell is a very similar situation.

all of this sounds reasonable to me

[Sitting Bull]

Not sure it’s just Maine, UNH and URI doing eye rolls….AWK!

Campbell outdrew Maine, URI and UAlbany in football last year and has much newer facilities. Not sure who should be rolling eyes at who here.

[Mocs123]

A little bit of an odd addition, and I'm not sure they fit geographically with the CAA (before you mention Elon - they don't either). Back when there was some talk of changes in the SoCon (UTC and ETSU was rumored to be courted by the A-Sun and OVC, Furman was rumored to be courted by the CAA). I had assumed Campbell would be the SoCon's replacement for any team that left.

It appears that all SoCon schools are staying where they are for now, and seem committed to the conference since they voted unanimously to raise the exit fee to $2M. The Big South continues to be a bit of a revolving door and I think that leaves them with only 5 football playing members. I think the WAC and A-Sun also only have 5 football playing members and the MEAC only has 6. It seems like we have one too many FCS Football Conferences at the moment.

[UNHWildcat18]

This will put the CAA at 15 teams for football in 2023.... something is going to change about that number sooner than later

I'd imagine a northern school... but who? MEAC/PL/NEC Definitely not.

[MUHAWKS]

Campbell outdrew Maine, URI and UAlbany in football last year and has much newer facilities. Not sure who should be rolling eyes at who here.


and they have serious talent and a former NFL player as HC who ust recruited one of the best if not THE best fcs class..

[Sitting Bull]

This will put the CAA at 15 teams for football in 2023.... something is going to change about that number sooner than later

Not sure if that makes as much difference as filling the 14th all sports slot. Of the CAA all sports 14 members, 9 now play football.

I think UAlbany could still grab an all sports slot if they wanted. I can’t see how Monmouth and Campbell can be open and prepared to compete in the CAA and UAlbany can’t. They may wish not to enter though. They would be a good all sports fit IMO.

[mainejeff]

Campbell outdrew Maine, URI and UAlbany in football last year and has much newer facilities. Not sure who should be rolling eyes at who here.

Billy and Mary going to bat for Campbell…how cute. Sorry Billy….the CAA ain’t what it used to be.

[Dane96]

I don’t think it’s a bad add. It’s much the same as the addition of Elon several years ago or even Monmouth earlier this year. The CAA has had a pretty good handle on schools that are upwardly trending, investing in facilities and academic profile, Campbell has been moving that way. Plus it’s in North Carolina, pretty strategic.

The question to me is if it is necessary for another add. But the world is moving that way so it sounds like a forward bet. And I think they are a better fit than Howard.

There was some similar hand wringing when Elon was brought on board several years ago from some of the northern members. Much of that frankly was ignorance (not in a condescending way) about Elon and what a rising and beautiful school it was. I think Campbell is a very similar situation.

Agree on all but the academic part: they are 277 in USNWR. I personally hate academic rankings by magazines, etc...but the fact is, 277 does not fit into the academic profile of the CAA, or at least what is claimed to be a peer academic conference. I don't even believe they are an R2...but I could be wrong. Their acceptance rate is 81% on 5000+applicants, ranking 47th in THE STATE OF North CAROLINA on acceptance rates.. Let's not sugarcoat how weak their academic profile is right now and for the near future.

[CenMEBlackBearFan]

Most northeners know very little about our new southern members but agree Campbell seems very good educationally and their facilities seem top notch. Love their mascot and can you tell we wish we had Campbell's transfer and all conference LB Ray Miller for another yearxnodx

[Dane96]

Campbell outdrew Maine, URI and UAlbany in football last year and has much newer facilities. Not sure who should be rolling eyes at who here.

There is no question they are a solid athletic add. They are building the school brand on athletics.

[Dane96]

Check your messages

[OhioHen]

Only because they’ve never had Eastern NC BBQ and it’s peppery vinegar-based infused wonderfulness. Just wait!
As an immigrant to Eastern NC I just have to say "where the hell is the barfing emoji?"

[FUBeAR]

As an immigrant to Eastern NC I just have to say "where the hell is the barfing emoji?"
Right next to the scrapple, behind the muskrat

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ds14qOF4L._SX329_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[Sitting Bull]

Agree on all but the academic part: they are 277 in USNWR. I personally hate academic rankings by magazines, etc...but the fact is, 277 does not fit into the academic profile of the CAA, or at least what is claimed to be a peer academic conference. I don't even believe they are an R2...but I could be wrong. Their acceptance rate is 81% on 5000+applicants, ranking 47th in THE STATE OF North CAROLINA on acceptance rates.. Let's not sugarcoat how weak their academic profile is right now and for the near future.

I guess the emphasis should be on “trending”. I never thought of Campbell as an elite academic school though I was surprised at their graduate schools of study and the investments. Still, I would prefer the CAA focus on schools who want to be better rather than just existing. The entire package there is more than I thought until looking.

[Dane96]

Fair point...and who knows, like you said, maybe they end up being the next Elon.

[caribbeanhen]

Agree on all but the academic part: they are 277 in USNWR. I personally hate academic rankings by magazines, etc...but the fact is, 277 does not fit into the academic profile of the CAA, or at least what is claimed to be a peer academic conference. I don't even believe they are an R2...but I could be wrong. Their acceptance rate is 81% on 5000+applicants, ranking 47th in THE STATE OF North CAROLINA on acceptance rates.. Let's not sugarcoat how weak their academic profile is right now and for the near future.

I sincerely hope that GPA never really becomes a stat I care about, the blank stares from college boys always looked the same regardless of what college ripped them off

[MR. CHICKEN]

..IT'S HUMP DAY....IN CAA.........BRAWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

I don’t think it’s a bad add. It’s much the same as the addition of Elon several years ago or even Monmouth earlier this year. The CAA has had a pretty good handle on schools that are upwardly trending, investing in facilities and academic profile, Campbell has been moving that way. Plus it’s in North Carolina, pretty strategic.

The question to me is if it is necessary for another add. But the world is moving that way so it sounds like a forward bet. And I think they are a better fit than Howard.

There was some similar hand wringing when Elon was brought on board several years ago from some of the northern members. Much of that frankly was ignorance (not in a condescending way) about Elon and what a rising and beautiful school it was. I think Campbell is a very similar situation.

....I DON'T THINK SO EITHER.....AWQ!

[caribbeanhen]

Right next to the scrapple, behind the muskrat

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ds14qOF4L._SX329_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


Oh my, Southern Delaware cookbook

Let me see

Scrapple - raised on it thinking it was a national sensation, I was so wrong

Muskrat - I’ve seen my grandmother eat it, Legend has it she would crack the skull and suck out the brains... but I never saw her do that

But Beach plums? No idea what those are

[MR. CHICKEN]

MOUNTAIN OYSTERS??

[caribbeanhen]

MOUNTAIN OYSTERS??

Chincoteague

Babe Ruth had his own schooner importing them from the Island to NYC in the 1920s

[TribeNomad1]

..IT'S HUMP DAY....IN CAA.........BRAWK!


My mantra at work on Hump Day is....I hope I do not get screwed.

We have the dromedaries the second week of the season, so will see.

[Dane96]

I sincerely hope that GPA never really becomes a stat I care about, the blank stares from college boys always looked the same regardless of what college ripped them off

100% agree however, if you remember, some fans from new member schools to the CAA and the CAA itself said realignment had two pillars: Geography (Campbell fits the Southern Group) and academics, joining with peer schools (Campbell does not, as potential is merely that...potential). If the second part is true, then you need to look at the CAA and ask yourself "what is the league really about right now".

What are the true underlying reasons for the moves made? It's really a disparate conference and I say this knowing that Albany is actually one of the schools that could be in line for an invite if the league goes to 16.

Here's how the academics shake out, since it was given as a reason for these moves:

BY USNWR RANKING
1. W&M: #38, R1 Carnegie.
2. NU: #49, R1 Carnegie
3. Elon: #83 National, D/PU Carnegie
4. Stony Brook: #93 R1 Carnegie, AAU
4. Delaware: #93, R1 Carnegie
6. Drexel: #103, R1 Carnegie
7. Hofstra: #162, D/PU Carnegie
8. UNCW: #187, R1 Carnegie
9. Towson: #196, D/PU Carnegie
10. Hampton: #202, R2 Carnegie (stated goal R1)
11. NC A&T: #277 National, R2 Carnegie (stated goal R1)
12. Campbell: #277 National, D/PU Carnegie
13. Charleston: #299-391, MC/U
14. Monmouth: #18 Regional Universities North

BY SHEER PRESTIGE (FACTORING AAU, CARNEGIE, and USWNR...not workplace prestige)

1. Stony Brook: #93 R1 Carnegie, AAU
2. W&M: #38, R1 Carnegie.
3. NU: #49, R1 Carnegie
4. Delaware: #93, R1 Carnegie
5. Drexel: #103, R1 Carnegie
6. UNCW: #187, R1 Carnegie
7. Hampton: #202, R2 Carnegie (stated goal R1)
8. NC A&T: #277 National, R2 Carnegie (stated goal R1)
9. Elon: #83 National, D/PU Carnegie
10. Hofstra: #162, D/PU Carnegie
11. Towson: #196, D/PU Carnegie
12. Campbell: #277 National, D/PU Carnegie
13. Charleston: #299-391, MC/U
14. Monmouth: #18 Regional Universities North

So let's call the additions what it is: Picking the best school in the North (SBU), picking a geographical fix irrespective of academic fit (Monmouth), and doing whatever the heck it needs to in order to appease the Southern schools. Once the top tier said no (there were Southern schools approached that said no), going after A&T and Howard made supreme sense due to the perception of Howard academically/endowment wise and the definite upward mobility path of Hampton. Don't understand the rest. What I do know is that any party line that this is to merge academic peers is literally nonsense.

[Sitting Bull]

100% agree however, if you remember, some fans from new member schools to the CAA and the CAA itself said realignment had two pillars: Geography (Campbell fits the Southern Group) and academics, joining with peer schools (Campbell does not, as potential is merely that...potential). If the second part is true, then you need to look at the CAA and ask yourself "what is the league really about right now".

What are the true underlying reasons for the moves made? It's really a disparate conference and I say this knowing that Albany is actually one of the schools that could be in line for an invite if the league goes to 16.

Here's how the academics shake out, since it was given as a reason for these moves:

BY USNWR RANKING
1. W&M: #38, R1 Carnegie.
2. NU: #49, R1 Carnegie
3. Elon: #83 National, D/PU Carnegie
4. Stony Brook: #93 R1 Carnegie, AAU
4. Delaware: #93, R1 Carnegie
6. Drexel: #103, R1 Carnegie
7. Hofstra: #162, D/PU Carnegie
8. UNCW: #187, R1 Carnegie
9. Towson: #196, D/PU Carnegie
10. Hampton: #202, R2 Carnegie (stated goal R1)
11. NC A&T: #277 National, R2 Carnegie (stated goal R1)
12. Campbell: #277 National, D/PU Carnegie
13. Charleston: #299-391, MC/U
14. Monmouth: #18 Regional Universities North

BY SHEER PRESTIGE (FACTORING AAU, CARNEGIE, and USWNR...not workplace prestige)

1. Stony Brook: #93 R1 Carnegie, AAU
2. W&M: #38, R1 Carnegie.
3. NU: #49, R1 Carnegie
4. Delaware: #93, R1 Carnegie
5. Drexel: #103, R1 Carnegie
6. UNCW: #187, R1 Carnegie
7. Hampton: #202, R2 Carnegie (stated goal R1)
8. NC A&T: #277 National, R2 Carnegie (stated goal R1)
9. Elon: #83 National, D/PU Carnegie
10. Hofstra: #162, D/PU Carnegie
11. Towson: #196, D/PU Carnegie
12. Campbell: #277 National, D/PU Carnegie
13. Charleston: #299-391, MC/U
14. Monmouth: #18 Regional Universities North

So let's call the additions what it is: Picking the best school in the North (SBU), picking a geographical fix irrespective of academic fit (Monmouth), and doing whatever the heck it needs to in order to appease the Southern schools. Once the top tier said no (there were Southern schools approached that said no), going after A&T and Howard made supreme sense due to the perception of Howard academically/endowment wise and the definite upward mobility path of Hampton. Don't understand the rest. What I do know is that any party line that this is to merge academic peers is literally nonsense.

I don’t think anyone said academics was the nucleus, no one said that about Campbell. What I said, and maybe some alluded, all the schools are heavily investing and striving for bigger profiles. That to me is what I would bring in, especially the upward mobility. The choices that are geographically available are limited.

[Dane96]

I don’t think anyone said academics was the nucleus, no one said that about Campbell. What I said, and maybe some alluded, all the schools are heavily investing and striving for bigger profiles. That to me is what I would bring in, especially the upward mobility. The choices that are geographically available are limited.

To be clear, you are not one of the many posters I was referring to about academics. You have been clear, concise, with solid points.

[POD Knows]

Oh my, Southern Delaware cookbook

Let me see

Scrapple - raised on it thinking it was a national sensation, I was so wrong

Muskrat - I’ve seen my grandmother eat it, Legend has it she would crack the skull and suck out the brains... but I never saw her do that

But Beach plums? No idea what those are
Scrapple is awesomexthumbsupx Used to stay in a hotel in Intercourse, PA that had a cafe that served that, I ate it for breakfast quite a few times.

[FUBeAR]

Scrapple is awesomexthumbsupx Used to stay in a hotel in Intercourse, PA that had a cafe that served that, I ate it for breakfast quite a few times.
Hah…Scrapple pales in comparison to good ol’ North Carolina made Liver Pudding
https://cutpcdnwimages.azureedge.net/images/products/720000/724803-600x600-A.jpg
Made right there in the heart of CAA Country - Home of CAA Stalwart, North Carolina A&T, and the birthplace of one FUBeAR - Greensboro, NC, the Gate City.

[OhioHen]

Right next to the scrapple, behind the muskrat

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ds14qOF4L._SX329_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
LOVE Scrapple and definitely on-board for some properly prepared muskrat. The vinegar-based garbage they try to pass off as barbecue sauce around here - NO THANKS!

[Libertine]

I think Campbell is a very similar situation.

I think this is actually a better add for the CAA in that I believe Campbell's potential upside right now is much higher than was Elon's when it was added.

[MR. CHICKEN]

To be clear, you are not one of the many posters I was referring to about academics. You have been clear, concise, with solid points.

.............AH'M HERE FO' FOOTBALL......X's & O's.....NOT ABC's.........BUT AN' AH-DEAR OCCURRED.......'STEAD UH NORFF/SOUFF DIVISIONS......SMART/DUMB.....OR.......MAYBEAH.....DUMB/DUMBER......AWK!

[FUBeAR]

.............AH'M HERE FO' FOOTBALL......X's & O's.....NOT ABC's.........BUT AN' AH-DEAR OCCURRED.......'STEAD UH NORFF/SOUFF DIVISIONS......SMART/DUMB.....OR.......MAYBEAH.....DUMB/DUMBER......AWK!
…for Posters?

[FUBeAR]

LOVE Scrapple and definitely on-board for some properly prepared muskrat. The vinegar-based garbage they try to pass off as barbecue sauce around here - NO THANKS!
FUBeAR Jr. and Little Miss FUBeAR, both born in Christiana Hospital in New-Ark, both native Delawareans, or Delawareites (depending on where you landed in the historic legislative question and debate depicted in a famous episode of Taxi - “Zen and the Art of Cab Driving" - Season 3, Episode 13), but properly raised to appreciate the absolute finest version of BBQ which God hath bestowed upon his unworthy children, would both consider those fightin’ words and request you satisfy their honor at dawn!

[Henny]

Hah…Scrapple pales in comparison to good ol’ North Carolina made Liver Pudding
https://cutpcdnwimages.azureedge.net/images/products/720000/724803-600x600-A.jpg
Made right there in the heart of CAA Country - Home of CAA Stalwart, North Carolina A&T, and the birthplace of one FUBeAR - Greensboro, NC, the Gate City.

This stuff is incredible. My Aunt use to pick it up in Lancaster Co. PA.

[caribbeanhen]

To be clear, you are not one of the many posters I was referring to about academics. You have been clear, concise, with solid points.

Some kids should be told the truth... You’re not college material son. Greed, fake trophy shelves and these colleges desperately trying to increase their profile by chasing the almighty dollar will not allow for it though. What’s worse .... Hurting a kids feelings a little bit by telling them the truth or bankrupting them by encouraging them to get a loan and chase a dream?

ok back to football

[FUBeAR]

ok back to footballand meat products

[caribbeanhen]

and meat products

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0329/5513/8183/products/1562941266_5d2897527499b_60x.jpg?v=1588828923



https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0329/5513/8183/products/1562941266_5d2897527499b_130x.jpg?v=1588828923
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0329/5513/8183/products/1562941266_5d2897527499b_1024x.jpg?v=1588828923)







Sausage (Morcilla) (1 lb)

[MR. CHICKEN]

.......SO WHAA HAPPENS TA BIG SOUFF CONFERENCE???......xdontknowx.......MAYBEAH GET COUPLE MO' NEC's......WILLIN' TA PLAY GARNER-WEBB....CHANGE NAME TA SOUFF EAST CONFERENCE.........AWK?

[Sir William]

.......SO WHAA HAPPENS TA BIG SOUFF CONFERENCE???

https://img.freepik.com/premium-vector/grim-reaper-skull-illustration_43623-823.jpg?w=360

[FUBeAR]

.......SO WHAA HAPPENS TA BIG SOUFF CONFERENCE???......xdontknowx.......MAYBEAH GET COUPLE MO' NEC's......WILLIN' TA PLAY GARNER-WEBB....CHANGE NAME TA SOUFF EAST CONFERENCE.........AWK?
“Big Ohio Whack-A-Sun Valley South” sounds like a great name for a 20 Team FCS POWER Conference

[aceinthehole]

.......SO WHAA HAPPENS TA BIG SOUFF CONFERENCE???......xdontknowx.......MAYBEAH GET COUPLE MO' NEC's......WILLIN' TA PLAY GARNER-WEBB....CHANGE NAME TA SOUFF EAST CONFERENCE.........AWK?

NEC is doing fine and has no need to save Robert Morris and Bryant from the Big South-OVC-ASUN-WAC travel :)

[UNHWildcat18]

.......SO WHAA HAPPENS TA BIG SOUFF CONFERENCE???......xdontknowx.......MAYBEAH GET COUPLE MO' NEC's......WILLIN' TA PLAY GARNER-WEBB....CHANGE NAME TA SOUFF EAST CONFERENCE.........AWK?

with 15 teams they’d probably want 1 northern team. If somehow Bryant was given it I’d probably fall out of my chair. They have 14 full members but 15 football. Do you think they’d even consider an affiliate?

[MR. CHICKEN]

…for Posters?

....UM ER.....UH.........UNIVERSITIES.....BRAWK!

[SU DOG]

Only time will tell if the SoCon missed the boat in not inviting Campbell. It is definitely an up-and-coming school.
As for the BBQ, there used to be a place near here in Hoover that had the real North Carolina style and the wonderful white sauce. It has been gone for years and I cannot find it (the N.C. BBQ) anywhere in the B'ham area. A couple of places claim to, but nope - not the same. That place spoiled me, and I haven't been able to enjoy BBQ since.

[GoBlueHens83]

Bryant has to be regretting that Big South move big time now. You'd have to think they will be headed back to the NEC asap if that is possible.

[HootyHoo]

“Big Ohio Whack-A-Sun Valley South” sounds like a great name for a 20 Team FCS POWER Conference

A logical solution is a consolidation of conferences. The FCS has two partnerships with 10 members each in the OVC/Big South and the ASUN/WAC. Just combine them into two football only conferences and that would solve most of the issues.

[WestCoastAggie]

A logical solution is a consolidation of conferences. The FCS has two partnerships with 10 members each in the OVC/Big South and the ASUN/WAC. Just combine them into two football only conferences and that would solve most of the issues.It won’t surprise me if your Owls are angling for a spot in the CAAFB South.

[HootyHoo]

It won’t surprise me if your Owls are angling for a spot in the CAAFB South.

Not likely, KSU would prefer the SOCON if we did leave the ASUN due to regional travel. But if the Owls leave at this point it would be to C-USA.

[Libertine]

Bryant has to be regretting that Big South move big time now.

Why? Joining the conference just in time to watch a stalwart conference member leave is the biggest part of the full Big South Experience.

[WileECoyote06]

Why? Joining the conference just in time to watch a stalwart conference member leave is the biggest part of the full Big South Experience.

10,000 reps

[Mocs123]

The Big South does have a ton of turnover. Is there an exit fee?

[UNHWildcat18]

The Big South does have a ton of turnover. Is there an exit fee?

Yeah a crisp $20 bill and a coupon for a free medium drink at popeyes

[OhioHen]

.............AH'M HERE FO' FOOTBALL......X's & O's.....NOT ABC's.........BUT AN' AH-DEAR OCCURRED.......'STEAD UH NORFF/SOUFF DIVISIONS......SMART/DUMB.....OR.......MAYBEAH.....DUMB/DUMBER......AWK!


…for Posters?
Those would be some very uneven divisions.

[OhioHen]

FUBeAR Jr. and Little Miss FUBeAR, both born in Christiana Hospital in New-Ark, both native Delawareans, or Delawareites (depending on where you landed in the historic legislative question and debate depicted in a famous episode of Taxi - “Zen and the Art of Cab Driving" - Season 3, Episode 13), but properly raised to appreciate the absolute finest version of BBQ which God hath bestowed upon his unworthy children, would both consider those fightin’ words and request you satisfy their honor at dawn!
Nature vs. nurture. If they like that cr@p, they either have very unrefined palettes or you did a lousy job of introducing them to the many fine barbecue sauces available in this great nation.

[The Cats]

Looks like the Big South/OVC alliance maybe come permanent.

[FUBeAR]

Nature vs. nurture. If they like that cr@p, they either have very unrefined palettes or you did a lousy job of introducing them to the many fine barbecue sauces available in this great nation.
That’s IT! ENOUGH OF YOUR HERESY!!

The 3 of us will see you at dawn on the 1st day of the FCS season

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/NINTCHDBPICT000670680939.jpg?strip=all&w=960

We’ll meet you on hallowed ground; beside the smoking pits at this cathedral of wonderfulness - FUBeAR’s personal favorite - https://www.wilbersbbq.com/ - in Goldsboro - less than an hour from your listed location…you lucky dog, um, chicken.

[Libertine]

The Big South does have a ton of turnover. Is there an exit fee?

At this point, the Big South is less of a conference and more of an athletics-based AirBnB. The "exit fee" is just a cleaning charge.

[KPSUL]

This thread is really getting a lot of traction, but I stopped getting excited by the CAA adding teams several teams ago. At the rate we are going UNH will be playing most of our out of sector games in NC. (Campbell is in NC isn't it?) The NY teams can't play there due to differing opinions on who should use which bathroom. Works for me; I now live closer to the NC teams than the Virginia teams in the CAA.

[Dane96]

This thread is really getting a lot of traction, but I stopped getting excited by the CAA adding teams several teams ago. At the rate we are going UNH will be playing most of our out of sector games in NC. (Campbell is in NC isn't it?) The NY teams can't play there due to differing opinions on who should use which bathroom. Works for me; I now live closer to the NC teams than the Virginia teams in the CAA.

NY teams can play there now, Albany is at Elon...and not playing the game in Virginia like in past years.

[OhioHen]

We’ll meet you on hallowed ground; beside the smoking pits at this cathedral of wonderfulness - FUBeAR’s personal favorite - https://www.wilbersbbq.com/ - in Goldsboro - less than an hour from your listed location…you lucky dog, um, chicken.
To date I have only found one place in ENC that I find the "sauce" palatable. Even there, it's a requirement to go light on the "sauce." (I use quotes because anything as thin as the watery stuff around here hardly qualifies as a sauce). Most places do a great job of cooking the pig and there is quality to be found without the vinegar aberration being added.

Have not been to Wilber's (haven't even had a reason to go to Goldsboro so now I have one). Will give it a try based on your recommendation and will even strive to not pre-assess the sauce based on my culinary bias.

[KPSUL]

Those would be some very uneven divisions.

I agree, and the stronger division would end up being the north. With 16 teams the inseparable pair, Villanova and Delaware, would likely end up in the North, Towson in the South.

[KPSUL]

NY teams can play there now, Albany is at Elon...and not playing the game in Virginia like in past years.

Then I don't like the southward expansion. We are going see each CAA opponent south of Monmouth about once every five years - less frequently for the Southern teams if they went to divisions. Couldn't the NY State legislature find something else they don't like about NC laws?

[centraljerseycat]

http://georgetownfootball.blogspot.com/2022/03/the-case-for-patriot-football-conference.html

With 9 football playing full-time members, the "new" CAA doesn't need Villanova, Richmond or the New England state schools. Whether it's called America East or not, a new conference is inevitable. 15 is too unwieldy. Sucks losing a great rival in JMU and (outside Monmouth being fairly close), none of the other schools added have any academic, geographic and religious commonality to Villanova. Much rather be with Holy Cross and Fordham than Campbell and Hampton.
Great article Mr Hoya posted. Would love to see a separate Patriot Football League free from the antiquated AI and redshirting rules.

[MR. CHICKEN]

With 9 football playing full-time members, the "new" CAA doesn't need Villanova, Richmond or the New England state schools. Whether it's called America East or not, a new conference is inevitable. 15 is too unwieldy. Sucks losing a great rival in JMU and (outside Monmouth being fairly close), none of the other schools added have any academic, geographic and religious commonality to Villanova. Much rather be with Holy Cross and Fordham than Campbell and Hampton.
Great article Mr Hoya posted. Would love to see a separate Patriot Football League free from the antiquated AI and redshirting rules.

....WE KNOW DUH AIR IS THIN....OVERAH DUH MAINLINE.......BUT UNLESS CAA COMMISH IS GOIN' ROGUE........ALL SKOOLS INVOLVED......MUSTAH...HAD INPUT...TA ALLOW...........AWK!

[kdinva]

easy: split into independent divisions, another auto-bid.....right?

[MR. CHICKEN]

easy: split into independent divisions, another auto-bid.....right?


.....WELP!.....BIG SOUFF DOESN'T HAVE ONE @ DUH MOMENT.....SO ADD IT TA CAA....BRAWK!

[FUBeAR]

To date I have only found one place in ENC that I find the "sauce" palatable. Even there, it's a requirement to go light on the "sauce." (I use quotes because anything as thin as the watery stuff around here hardly qualifies as a sauce). Most places do a great job of cooking the pig and there is quality to be found without the vinegar aberration being added.

Have not been to Wilber's (haven't even had a reason to go to Goldsboro so now I have one). Will give it a try based on your recommendation and will even strive to not pre-assess the sauce based on my culinary bias.
FUBeAR thinks you’re doing it wrong. If you have to add additional sauce, they aren’t preparing the meat properly. The meat is flavored with the sauce during the cooking & chopping processes. If they do it right, the served meat (chopped pork is the way to go - anything else is just for variety & frivolity) should be rather moist & very tender. Ready to eat ‘stand-alone’ or on a sandwich bun with or without slaw. Shouldn’t need to add sauce.

[caribbeanhen]

http://georgetownfootball.blogspot.com/2022/03/the-case-for-patriot-football-conference.html

Who are the potential individuals that would need to step up and get this idea off the ground?

besides whomever wrote that blogspot of course

[OhioHen]

FUBeAR thinks you’re doing it wrong. If you have to add additional sauce, they aren’t preparing the meat properly. The meat is flavored with the sauce during the cooking & chopping processes. If they do it right, the served meat (chopped pork is the way to go - anything else is just for variety & frivolity) should be rather moist & very tender. Ready to eat ‘stand-alone’ or on a sandwich bun with or without slaw. Shouldn’t need to add sauce.
With real whole-hog barbecue, there is no sauce involved in the cooking and only a minimum (if any) is added during the chopping process. Proper moisture in the meat is achieved by proper cooking technique. Sauce is an add on.

[FUBeAR]

With real whole-hog barbecue, there is no sauce involved in the cooking and only a minimum (if any) is added during the chopping process. Proper moisture in the meat is achieved by proper cooking technique. Sauce is an add on.
Nah - mop sauce while cooking & mix in sauce when chopping/mixing. No need to make folks work. They can add sauce if they want, but they shouldn’t have to.

[wmmii]

Back to CAA expansion. Many feel the goal is 16 teams for both MBB and football. To do this the CAA needs one more all sports plus one w/o football.

The league goal appears to be North and South divisions and to achieve that must add more team for the South. This allows for regional travel to lower cost.

CAA clearly has success getting Big South teams to move. The best targets left in the Big South are for the MBB slot (without football) and the options are Winthrop, High Point, and Radford.

The all sports target is probably another HBCU with best options being Norfolk State and Howard.

[Dane96]

Back to CAA expansion. Many feel the goal is 16 teams for both MBB and football. To do this the CAA needs one more all sports plus one w/o football.

The league goal appears to be North and South divisions and to achieve that must add more team for the South. This allows for regional travel to lower cost.

CAA clearly has success getting Big South teams to move. The best targets left in the Big South are for the MBB slot (without football) and the options are Winthrop, High Point, and Radford.

The all sports target is probably another HBCU with best options being Norfolk State and Howard.

Unless my math is super fuzzy, there will be 1 North add and one South add. Everything I have heard is that a slot is being kept for Howard who would be placed in the South, irrespective of most believing that for the purposes of this kind of geography they are North...and the 16th slot is allegedly Albany / Fairfield.

If they bail on waiting for Howard, things get really interesting. If I am a betting man, whichever of NCCU or Norfolk St. is better positioned to increase spending for sports, will be the Southern add and the North add will remain Albany/Fairfield (some rumors about Quinn). If they can't find a good southern football, all-sport (e.g. Howard, NCCU, or Norfolk St), they can keep Football at 15 and add the same Northern school mentioned (one of Albany/Fairfield) and add one of the schools you mentioned but I would bet it is Winthrop or High Point.

Football can play at 15 or if they want, they can offer an affiliate.

[KPSUL]

Unless my math is super fuzzy, there will be 1 North add and one South add. Everything I have heard is that a slot is being kept for Howard who would be placed in the South, irrespective of most believing that for the purposes of this kind of geography they are North...and the 16th slot is allegedly Albany / Fairfield.

If they bail on waiting for Howard, things get really interesting. If I am a betting man, whichever of NCCU or Norfolk St. is better positioned to increase spending for sports, will be the Southern add and the North add will remain Albany/Fairfield (some rumors about Quinn). If they can't find a good southern football, all-sport (e.g. Howard, NCCU, or Norfolk St), they can keep Football at 15 and add the same Northern school mentioned (one of Albany/Fairfield) and add one of the schools you mentioned but I would bet it is Winthrop or High Point.

Football can play at 15 or if they want, they can offer an affiliate.

Why would Albany want to incur the added expense of flying every varsity team numerous times a season to schools in Virginia and NC to play sports that hardly anyone watches even when they play at home. I suppose you could ask the same question to Stony Brook; however, I believe that SB got roped in when it was only Monmouth and Hampton joining with them as all sports members.

[Dane96]

Why would Albany want to incur the added expense of flying every varsity team numerous times a season to schools in Virginia and NC to play sports that hardly anyone watches even when they play at home. I suppose you could ask the same question to Stony Brook; however, I believe that SB got roped in when it was only Monmouth and Hampton joining with them as all sports members.

I am not in agreement with the move...but I am just telling you what I have heard. There have been conversations for over a year now. What I was told, Albany said they weren't ready in the initial wave and politely declined further discussion. Discussions re-started and I was told that in Feb it was going to be Campbell, Howard, and Albany. Then Campbell did not get announced on the Tuesday date in February that they were supposed to be announced.

[caribbeanhen]

Why would Albany want to incur the added expense of flying every varsity team numerous times a season to schools in Virginia and NC to play sports that hardly anyone watches even when they play at home. I suppose you could ask the same question to Stony Brook; however, I believe that SB got roped in when it was only Monmouth and Hampton joining with them as all sports members.

great question!

[KPSUL]

I am not in agreement with the move...but I am just telling you what I have heard. There have been conversations for over a year now. What I was told, Albany said they weren't ready in the initial wave and politely declined further discussion. Discussions re-started and I was told that in Feb it was going to be Campbell, Howard, and Albany. Then Campbell did not get announced on the Tuesday date in February that they were supposed to be announced.

I wasn't assuming that you were in agreement, I was just asking the question rhetorically. I don't pay a lot of attention to most the sports played in the Atlantic East, but generally I think it is a good fit for UNH. The one exception for us is Men's Soccer. But we've strengthened our schedule through the OOC opponents played. I watch a lot of UNH soccer and we've had many tough AE games during the 4-5 year run of making the NCAA as well. Vermont beat us in the conference tournament finals last season.

[Dane96]

I wasn't assuming that you were in agreement, I was just asking the question rhetorically. I don't pay a lot of attention to most the sports played in the Atlantic East, but generally I think it is a good fit for UNH. The one exception for us is Men's Soccer. But we've strengthened our schedule through the OOC opponents played. I watch a lot of UNH soccer and we've had many tough AE games during the 4-5 year run of making the NCAA as well. Vermont beat us in the conference tournament finals last season.

Confused here...the America East (not Atlantic East) has some of the better soccer programs in the country. Heck, the East Coast itself has a ton of excellent programs. The AE generally has 3-4 teams in contention for the auto-bid and more often than not, a second bid to the tournament.

[KPSUL]

Confused here...the America East (not Atlantic East) has some of the better soccer programs in the country. Heck, the East Coast itself has a ton of excellent programs. The AE generally has 3-4 teams in contention for the auto-bid and more often than not, a second bid to the tournament.

Not sure what you are confused about, you were clearly right correcting my Atlantic vs American screw up. I warned you I didn't know much about MOST AE sports. Other than that we agree that AE Soccer is pretty solid. Although you might be confused if you don't think UNH has clearly been the best Soccer team in the conference the last 4 seasons and you do think 3-4 teams have been in contention for the Conference Championship during those 4 years.

[mainejeff]

Sorry to interrupt the soccer talk....

As far as Albany goes.....I think that the biggest attraction for them joining the CAA is being in an ALL-SPORTS conference including football. That is where AE really dropped the ball....not sponsoring football. But that was always going to be tough sell in a league that only had 4 out of 10 members with football. I also think that Albany really is somewhat on the fence about leaving AE mainly because there are still so many moving parts. The addition of Campbell was one piece of the puzzle......but we still have Howard hanging out there. And there is still a possibility that the CAA loses Delaware.....but we've been saying that for many years. Ultimately I think that Albany jumps to the CAA for all sports....it just makes sense for them.

[caribbeanhen]

Sorry to interrupt the soccer talk....

As far as Albany goes.....I think that the biggest attraction for them joining the CAA is being in an ALL-SPORTS conference including football. That is where AE really dropped the ball....not sponsoring football. But that was always going to be tough sell in a league that only had 4 out of 10 members with football. I also think that Albany really is somewhat on the fence about leaving AE mainly because there are still so many moving parts. The addition of Campbell was one piece of the puzzle......but we still have Howard hanging out there. And there is still a possibility that the CAA loses Delaware.....but we've been saying that for many years. Ultimately I think that Albany jumps to the CAA for all sports....it just makes sense for them.

If the CAA is losing Delaware its the best kept secret since Roswell or MacBook Pro

[KPSUL]

Sorry to interrupt the soccer talk....

As far as Albany goes.....I think that the biggest attraction for them joining the CAA is being in an ALL-SPORTS conference including football. That is where AE really dropped the ball....not sponsoring football. But that was always going to be tough sell in a league that only had 4 out of 10 members with football. I also think that Albany really is somewhat on the fence about leaving AE mainly because there are still so many moving parts. The addition of Campbell was one piece of the puzzle......but we still have Howard hanging out there. And there is still a possibility that the CAA loses Delaware.....but we've been saying that for many years. Ultimately I think that Albany jumps to the CAA for all sports....it just makes sense for them.

Still looking for any sort of explanation why: it just makes sense for them. The soccer digression didn't get us there.

[Tribal]

So many predicted CAA’s death for many years. Seems CAA planned for the future and added a few very promising schools, from the north and south. I applaud the effort.

[Professor]

Not sure why people are not grasping that the divisions would be for all sports. Other than football the teams would be different

[Go...gate]

Schools like UNH, Maine, and URI have to be doing a serious eye roll.

Sure be nice if the PL had some foresight here.

Agreed. Wonder what Center Valley and the PL Prexies thought of this. I guess they might satisfy themselves by thinking this digs Fordham more deeply into PL football, but I wonder if that is just wishful thinking. I hope not. I like having Fordham in our league.

[Sitting Bull]

So many predicted CAAÂ’s death for many years. Seems CAA planned for the future and added a few very promising schools, from the north and south. I applaud the effort.

Agreed. There seem to me two trains of thought. All sports member/posters here are near unanimously supportive. Affiliate member/posters seem to be upset. The only group that counts in my book are the full members. The affiliates are only in to take advantage of the leagues position in particular sports, primarily football. There’s no loyalty to the league other than their own self interest. None are bound to stay and now with 9 football/all sports members, the CAA really doesn’t need them even though I like having them involved.

[KPSUL]

[QUOTE=Professor;3065412]Not sure why people are not grasping that the divisions would be for all sports. Other than football the teams would be different[/QUOTE

The football only schools, which include most of the highly successful programs in CAAFB, don't care about sub-division in any other sport. Why should we? We do grasp that basketball seems to be driving most of the recent expansion. We also grasp that some of this expansion could have a detrimental effect on travel costs, attendance, overall conference quality and competitiveness. At some point one or several of the options suggested on AGS could become attractive - be that PL expansion, A-10 football, AE football, NEC expansion, or possibly a combination of a couple of these.

[ElCid]

Agreed. There seem to me two trains of thought. All sports member/posters here are near unanimously supportive. Affiliate member/posters seem to be upset. The only group that counts in my book are the full members. The affiliates are only in to take advantage of the leagues position in particular sports, primarily football. There’s no loyalty to the league other than their own self interest. None are bound to stay and now with 9 football/all sports members, the CAA really doesn’t need them even though I like having them involved.

I'm still thinking that there was something in the wind regarding the affiliates and the CAA, as an "entity," was looking at self preservation rather than creating some grand monstrosity of a conference. Sure the creation of a southern division to ease the travel cost burden is a bonus, but I don't think it was the primary purpose.

[taper]

Not sure why people are not grasping that the divisions would be for all sports. Other than football the teams would be different

The football only schools, which include most of the highly successful programs in CAAFB, don't care about sub-division in any other sport. Why should we? We do grasp that basketball seems to be driving most of the recent expansion. We also grasp that some of this expansion could have a detrimental effect on travel costs, attendance, overall conference quality and competitiveness. At some point one or several of the options suggested on AGS could become attractive - be that PL expansion, A-10 football, AE football, NEC expansion, or possibly a combination of a couple of these.
I'm not going to say it's as simple as you're only as good as your last game, but even without JMU the new full member CAA is at least the equal of the affiliates and probably has a brighter future. The last 4-5 years have not been kind to affiliates not named Villanova. As an outsider with no real skin in the game, it's clear to me the full CAA should break from the affiliates and directly sponsor football at this point without them. Not saying that will happen but I honestly believe it would be in their benefit.

[KPSUL]

I'm not going to say it's as simple as you're only as good as your last game, but even without JMU the new full member CAA is at least the equal of the affiliates and probably has a brighter future. The last 4-5 years have not been kind to affiliates not named Villanova. As an outsider with no real skin in the game, it's clear to me the full CAA should break from the affiliates and directly sponsor football at this point without them. Not saying that will happen but I honestly believe it would be in their benefit.

Well first of all they can't "break away from the affiliates", many of which are charter members. CAA Football's lineage goes back initially to the Yankee Conference, followed by the the Atlantic-10. When the CAA Football Conf was established Teams transitioning from the Atlantic 10 were considered founding members and cannot be made to leave the the CAA. UNH, Maine and URI have been members of this conference for 75 years. I doubt CAA Football uses the term affiliate for any of the conference members.
When you say 4-5 years, you are really talking 2021 - 5 years which equals 2016. (No one has played a down of football in 2022 yet). Also Villanova is an "affiliate" by your definition so it is completely arbitrary to remove them from the argument. Since 2016, 5 CAA teams (not named JMU) have reached the Quarter or Semi-Finals - 4 different football only members and 1 full sport member. If you want to trace the downturn in CAA fortunes to its beginning, look no further than 2018 when 4 all sports members made the playoff and soundly lost in the 1st round. A ridiculous number of 6 CAA teams made it in 2018, but only Maine did not embarrass the conference. Since then the CAA quota has usually been two.

[DFW HOYA]

Membership matters in article VII, below.

https://static.caasports.com/custompages/2015%20CAAFB%20Press%20Box/CAA/_Handbook%20(Web).pdf

[taper]

Well first of all they can't "break away from the affiliates", many of which are charter members. CAA Football's lineage goes back initially to the Yankee Conference, followed by the the Atlantic-10. When the CAA Football Conf was established Teams transitioning from the Atlantic 10 were considered founding members and cannot be made to leave the the CAA. UNH, Maine and URI have been members of this conference for 75 years. I doubt CAA Football uses the term affiliate for any of the conference members.
When you say 4-5 years, you are really talking 2021 - 5 years which equals 2016. (No one has played a down of football in 2022 yet). Also Villanova is an "affiliate" by your definition so it is completely arbitrary to remove them from the argument. Since 2016, 5 CAA teams (not named JMU) have reached the Quarter or Semi-Finals - 4 different football only members and 1 full sport member. If you want to trace the downturn in CAA fortunes to its beginning, look no further than 2018 when 4 all sports members made the playoff and soundly lost in the 1st round. A ridiculous number of 6 CAA teams made it in 2018, but only Maine did not embarrass the conference. Since then the CAA quota has usually been two.
Well first of all, yes, the full CAA members absolutely can break off from the affiliates. CAAFB is legally separate from CAA, no matter how much people want to believe otherwise. The rest of your post is a lot of words about past history that mean nothing in today's realignment. Again, I'm not saying the CAA full members will break, only that they can and it's probably a good decision to do so. I'm sorry if your school is left in the cold if that happens.

[Tribal]

Northeastern, Hofstra, and Richmond did the CAA dirty in either joining then dropping football or ditching the CAA only to remain CAAF. I’m not quite to the point of dissolving CAAF but the CAA should push CAAF members not named Villanova to join as full members (like SBU). I’m not a fan of a separate CAA/CAAF.

[KPSUL]

Well first of all, yes, the full CAA members absolutely can break off from the affiliates. CAAFB is legally separate from CAA, no matter how much people want to believe otherwise. The rest of your post is a lot of words about past history that mean nothing in today's realignment. Again, I'm not saying the CAA full members will break, only that they can and it's probably a good decision to do so. I'm sorry if your school is left in the cold if that happens.

If I wanted to be left out in the cold with nothing to do, I'd gone to NDSU. You had absolutely no factual basis to your assertion that the "affiliates" were in any way weakening the conference, even when you pulled 4 or 5 years out of your butt. In fact the opposite is true. In the future when you start a post with "I'm not going to say" It would be wise not to say it.

[KPSUL]

Northeastern, Hofstra, and Richmond did the CAA dirty in either joining then dropping football or ditching the CAA only to remain CAAF. I’m not quite to the point of dissolving CAAF but the CAA should push CAAF members not named Villanova to join as full members (like SBU). I’m not a fan of a separate CAA/CAAF.

Northeastern and Hofstra dropping football more than a decade ago is justification to dissolve CAAF ? I wasn't really aware of the Richmond power play - I can see where that would have been annoying to the conference in general. While I do think that the CAA has welcomed several new schools with no real regard to what's good for CAAF, I don't think there is some secret plot to dissolve CAAFB and then recreate football as a program for CAA total sport members only. Otherwise why would CAAF be playing up their 75th year anniversary and the Yankee Conference - Atlantic 10 - CAAF legacy. I'd think to placate the long time members of the conference that are not full sport CAA members during this time of change.

[UNHWildcat18]

Northeastern, Hofstra, and Richmond did the CAA dirty in either joining then dropping football or ditching the CAA only to remain CAAF. I’m not quite to the point of dissolving CAAF but the CAA should push CAAF members not named Villanova to join as full members (like SBU). I’m not a fan of a separate CAA/CAAF.

I’m pretty much at that point. I’m going to laugh when the next school added is another big south school..

[Tribal]

Northeastern and Hofstra dropping football more than a decade ago is justification to dissolve CAAF ? I wasn't really aware of the Richmond power play - I can see where that would have been annoying to the conference in general. While I do think that the CAA has welcomed several new schools with no real regard to what's good for CAAF, I don't think there is some secret plot to dissolve CAAFB and then recreate football as a program for CAA total sport members only. Otherwise why would CAAF be playing up their 75th year anniversary and the Yankee Conference - Atlantic 10 - CAAF legacy. I'd think to placate the long time members of the conference that are not full sport CAA members during this time of change.

I merely pointed out that HU and, especially, NU pulled the rug from under A10/CAA Football rather quickly after joining leaving the A10 short two members. This is why we have a separate and distinct football affiliate from, what was then, the A10. You can see where messing with the balance (leaving the conference short a required number of football members) forced a separate football affiliate.

I prefer adding Albany, UNH, and Maine as full members, set the north south divisions or create pods, and unify the CAA as an exclusively full member conference. I write that acknowledging the management of Villanova & Richmond Football would create a new issue.

[Tribal]

I’m pretty much at that point. I’m going to laugh when the next school added is another big south school..

CAA added northern schools to appease our northern conferencemates and in an attempt to strike a north-south balance. CAA is superior to the AE in every meaningful way so I don’t understand why UNH, Maine and Albany would prefer to remain in the AE, forcing CAA to look for schools in the Big South. A Maine to NY CAA pod wouldn’t look much different from what you have now but would include stronger competition in primary sports.

[UNHWildcat18]

CAA added northern schools to appease our northern conferencemates and in an attempt to strike a north-south balance. CAA is superior to the AE in every meaningful way so I don’t understand why UNH, Maine and Albany would prefer to remain in the AE, forcing CAA to look for schools in the Big South. A Maine to NY CAA pod wouldn’t look much different from what you have now but would include stronger competition in primary sports.

No desire for UNH and Maine to leave it’s HE conference mates behind and increase travel costs. We did add northern schools to replace northern football schools. We’ve added southern schools just to add schools and now have the largest FCS conference at 15…. There is truly no need for a conference that spans from Orono to Charleston at this level anyways.

[Dane96]

I merely pointed out that HU and, especially, NU pulled the rug from under A10/CAA Football rather quickly after joining leaving the A10 short two members. This is why we have a separate and distinct football affiliate from, what was then, the A10. You can see where messing with the balance (leaving the conference short a required number of football members) forced a separate football affiliate.

I prefer adding Albany, UNH, and Maine as full members, set the north south divisions or create pods, and unify the CAA as an exclusively full member conference. I write that acknowledging the management of Villanova & Richmond Football would create a new issue.

Hitting it all on the head, squarely.

KPSUL asked why Albany would want to join the CAA, same question he had for SBU. One simple reason: having all of its major sports in one league. UNH and Albany were actually offered the opportunity back when SBU and Albany joined for football. UNH declined, Albany was not ready and also did not feel comfortable not having SBU on board (Hofstra block). UNH's declination was due to travel costs.

However, with pods, those travel costs are muted.

[Dane96]

No desire for UNH and Maine to leave it’s HE conference mates behind and increase travel costs. We did add northern schools to replace northern football schools. We’ve added southern schools just to add schools and now have the largest FCS conference at 15…. There is truly no need for a conference that spans from Orono to Charleston at this level anyways.

UNH is only wed to Maine, per my understanding. I don't see sticking around the AE for UVM and Lowell as a "must have" for UNH.

[mainejeff]

At this point I don't care where Maine ends up. College athletics in general are turning into a different beast and I am losing interest. I don't think that I am alone in that train of thought. One word pretty much describes my enthusiasm for the future of D1 college sports....."meh".

[FUBeAR]

At this point I don't care where Maine ends up. College athletics in general are turning into a different beast and I am losing interest. I don't think that I am alone in that train of thought. One word pretty much describes my enthusiasm for the future of D1 college sports....."meh".
Prolly haven’t seen all 13,143 others, but FUBeAR thinks this is the 1st post from you with which he is muy simpatico.

[MR. CHICKEN]

.....FOOBIE.....SEE IFIN' YA CAN TALK JETHRO....ER....JIFFY.....UMM......JEFF....DOWN FROM DUH LEDGE......xeekx.......BRAWK!


ps.....BEIN' PICKED 8th IN CAA......ISN'T ALL BAD........IT COODAH BEEN......9th/10th/11th/12th/13th/14th/15th/16th......17th............18th.......BRAWK!

[caribbeanhen]

Lord have merci when will the games finally start

[NY Crusader 2010]

If CAA goes to a POD system, the addition of Campbell might result in LESS travel in football. Consider the following:

New England: UNH, Maine, URI, Albany, Stony Brook
Mid-Atlantic: Villanova, Monmouth, Delaware, Towson, William & Mary
South: Richmond, Elon, NCAT, Hampton, Campbell

Only logistic issue here would be having W&M and Richmond in different pods, as both would obviously continue to play each other every year the last week of the season.

The move to add Campbell was an all-sports move that I believe will ultimately make the league stronger in football. The schools with the most travel miles in the CAA overall are College of Charleston and UNC Wilmington (yes more so than Northeastern believe it or not) and this helps appease those two key members.

[NY Crusader 2010]

No desire for UNH and Maine to leave it’s HE conference mates behind and increase travel costs. We did add northern schools to replace northern football schools. We’ve added southern schools just to add schools and now have the largest FCS conference at 15…. There is truly no need for a conference that spans from Orono to Charleston at this level anyways.

To be honest, I just don't think the CAA has ever had a burning desire to bring in New Hampshire and Maine for all-sports (and if the CAA were going to take 1 of the 2 it would obviously be UNH 1000x over Maine). And with the CAA no interested, there's really no other option that's more attractive than where they're at now. The addition of Bryant will make the America East a stronger league going forward.

[Dane96]

To be honest, I just don't think the CAA has ever had a burning desire to bring in New Hampshire and Maine for all-sports. And with the CAA no interested, there's really no other option that's more attractive than where they're at now. The addition of Bryant will make the America East a stronger league going forward. If the league is smart, they'll bring in Merrimack sooner rather than later.

Can 100% confirm that UNH has received TWO all sport offers. One when the AE-4 left, the second when Albany and SBU were added for football. Not even a secret, it's pretty open and not speculative at all. UNH is the reason that Albany and SBU are in the CAA (football, and now SBU all sports). When the move was made, Albany and UNH were given offers to join the CAA but Hofstra blocked SBU. Albany was a bit wary of the value in going to a one bid league, as was UNH. If SBU had not been blocked...I do think UNH would have made the move even with its ties to Maine.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Agree 100% That's why America East needs to add FCS football and take Nova, Delaware and a few others with them.

I'll take this bait. America East Football, while still a long shot in near future IMO, is a lot closer to being a possibility than it was even 5 years ago. But zero shot Nova and Delaware would jump into that. I could see the following league taking shape IF UNH and Maine wanted to spearhead it. The reason AE football is a non-starter now is because those two would rather play football in the CAA, a league with more travel but that will continue to have a much higher ceiling at the FCS level than America East Football ever would.

Adding football would also make the America East Conference a stronger Division I league in all sports because it would allow it to add members that it currently can't because of the football problem, namely Merrimack, CCSU and Sacred Heart (unless of course they wanted to go the Bryant route, join AE anyway and play football in the Ohio Valley).

Consider this America East Football conference:

New Hampshire
Maine
Albany
Bryant
Rhode Island
Merrimack
Sacred Heart
Central Connecticut State

I would actually support Holy Cross joining America East a) if a football conference were to be created AND b) if joining would help our Men's Hockey team get into Hockey East as a result of newfound relationships with America East core members.

[WestCoastAggie]

If CAA goes to a POD system, the addition of Campbell might result in LESS travel in football. Consider the following:

New England: UNH, Maine, URI, Albany, Stony Brook
Mid-Atlantic: Villanova, Monmouth, Delaware, Towson, William & Mary
South: Richmond, Elon, NCAT, Hampton, Campbell

Only logistic issue here would be having W&M and Richmond in different pods, as both would obviously continue to play each other every year the last week of the season.

The move to add Campbell was an all-sports move that I believe will ultimately make the league stronger in football. The schools with the most travel miles in the CAA overall are College of Charleston and UNC Wilmington (yes more so than Northeastern believe it or not) and this helps appease those two key members.
I have this exact same thought. These pods would lead to a 4+2+2 schedule format with 1 potential flight for teams in the north and south pods.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Can 100% confirm that UNH has received TWO all sport offers. One when the AE-4 left, the second when Albany and SBU were added for football. Not even a secret, it's pretty open and not speculative at all. UNH is the reason that Albany and SBU are in the CAA (football, and now SBU all sports). When the move was made, Albany and UNH were given offers to join the CAA but Hofstra blocked SBU. Albany was a bit wary of the value in going to a one bid league, as was UNH. If SBU had not been blocked...I do think UNH would have made the move even with its ties to Maine.

Good insight and not surprising. UNH is definitely a much more attractive add for the CAA than Maine. Travel to Banger has always been an albatross for Maine -- would be a much situation for them athletics-wise if the school were located in the Portland area.

[caribbeanhen]

I have this exact same thought. These pods would lead to a 4+2+2 schedule format with 1 potential flight for teams in the north and south pods.

tiebreaker scenarios for a conference title?

With four 5-3 three teams and only three playoff spots how is that gonna work out?

[WestCoastAggie]

tiebreaker scenarios for a conference title?

With four 5-3 three teams and only three playoff spots how is that gonna work out?
Probably involving winning percentage for games in their home pod, win-loss record Against the other pods, along with more weight for FBS victories.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Probably involving winning percentage for games in their home pod, win-loss record Against the other pods, along with more weight for FBS victories.

It would probably be simpler than that. There's only one auto-bid, even with three "pods". So the CAA standings would still be top to bottom. It's just that certain schools would have the advantage versus others when it comes to strength of schedule. So, a four-way tie for first in the CAA would be handled the same way it is in any other league without a full round robin schedule. Head-to-head amongst top 4, record against #5, common opponents, FCS ranking, committee vote, etc. etc.

[CenMEBlackBearFan]

I'll take this bait. America East Football, while still a long shot in near future IMO, is a lot closer to being a possibility than it was even 5 years ago. But zero shot Nova and Delaware would jump into that. I could see the following league taking shape IF UNH and Maine wanted to spearhead it. The reason AE football is a non-starter now is because those two would rather play football in the CAA, a league with more travel but that will continue to have a much higher ceiling at the FCS level than America East Football ever would.

Adding football would also make the America East Conference a stronger Division I league in all sports because it would allow it to add members that it currently can't because of the football problem, namely Merrimack, CCSU and Sacred Heart (unless of course they wanted to go the Bryant route, join AE anyway and play football in the Ohio Valley).

Consider this America East Football conference:

New Hampshire
Maine
Albany
Bryant
Rhode Island
Merrimack
Sacred Heart
Central Connecticut State

I would actually support Holy Cross joining America East a) if a football conference were to be created AND b) if joining would help our Men's Hockey team get into Hockey East as a result of newfound relationships with America East core members.

Can't speak for the UNH fans although I am pretty sure they would agree with me that no way does URI,UNH or Maine want to leave the CAA football for an America East Football Conference. I will say the talent gap between the CAA and the America East may be shrinking. In 2109 we destroyed Sacred Heart now the polls have SHU a top 25 team, time will tell how correct that prediction is. The cost reduction in travel would not be great in football as we play 4 road CAA games per year and have Rhody, UNH or Albany so you are only talking 2 trips to the south and one of them can be SBU or Monmouth.
The only way the AE in football happens is if the CAA does not want affiliate football schools.

[The Cats]

The only way the AE in football happens is if the CAA does not want affiliate football schools.


I don't think that will happen, seems like the CAA is like the ASUN, willing to take most anybody in football....

[caribbeanhen]

It would probably be simpler than that. There's only one auto-bid, even with three "pods". So the CAA standings would still be top to bottom. It's just that certain schools would have the advantage versus others when it comes to strength of schedule. So, a four-way tie for first in the CAA would be handled the same way it is in any other league without a full round robin schedule. Head-to-head amongst top 4, record against #5, common opponents, FCS ranking, committee vote, etc. etc.

Sounds like a mess

[UNHWildcat18]

I'll take this bait. America East Football, while still a long shot in near future IMO, is a lot closer to being a possibility than it was even 5 years ago. But zero shot Nova and Delaware would jump into that. I could see the following league taking shape IF UNH and Maine wanted to spearhead it. The reason AE football is a non-starter now is because those two would rather play football in the CAA, a league with more travel but that will continue to have a much higher ceiling at the FCS level than America East Football ever would.

Adding football would also make the America East Conference a stronger Division I league in all sports because it would allow it to add members that it currently can't because of the football problem, namely Merrimack, CCSU and Sacred Heart (unless of course they wanted to go the Bryant route, join AE anyway and play football in the Ohio Valley).

Consider this America East Football conference:

New Hampshire
Maine
Albany
Bryant
Rhode Island
Merrimack
Sacred Heart
Central Connecticut State

I would actually support Holy Cross joining America East a) if a football conference were to be created AND b) if joining would help our Men's Hockey team get into Hockey East as a result of newfound relationships with America East core members.

While I think it’s possible unless the CAA wants the affiliates out (doubtful) and A-10 takes UD than it’s pretty unlikely for now. None of the affiliates want to leave as of now. 15 teams going to 16 isn’t feasible for too long IMHO. Also as much as I’d like Holy Cross as a conference mate for sports I don’t think HE is interested in another mass school. Personally I think QU is blowing it not going to the HE/AE which I think they’d be able to accomplish. If Binghamton adds D1 Hockey I think they’d love an NY school to join.

I think next year realignment is going to ravage the FBS again and it’s going to affect the non football conferences as well, and shall trickle down to us yet again

[Dane96]

Albany fans (but for a minor few) feel the same.

[MR. CHICKEN]

While I think it’s possible unless the CAA wants the affiliates out (doubtful) and A-10 takes UD than it’s pretty unlikely for now. None of the affiliates want to leave as of now. 15 teams going to 16 isn’t feasible for too long IMHO. Also as much as I’d like Holy Cross as a conference mate for sports I don’t think HE is interested in another mass school. Personally I think QU is blowing it not going to the HE/AE which I think they’d be able to accomplish. If Binghamton adds D1 Hockey I think they’d love an NY school to join.

I think next year realignment is going to ravage the FBS again and it’s going to affect the non football conferences as well, and shall trickle down to us yet again

...AH DON'T UNDERSTAND........IN THIS THREAD.......TOO MANY.....MAKIN' ARBITRARY STATEMENTS.....WHIFF NO EXPLANATION.......WHAA DO YOUSE SAY "ISN'T FEASIBLE FOR TOO LONG"....IFIN' IT'S FEASIBLE....TA BEGIN WHIFF...??....AWK!


HOW WILL IT EFFECT NON FOOTBALL?.........POSTERS NEED TA BACK UP STATEMENTS....WHIFF REASONS.....&...LINKS.............BRAWK!

....TOO MUCH HERESAY....&....POPPYCOCK.....IN SOME UH DEESE THREADS.........AWQ!

[Daytripper]

I am just amazed that a thread about Campbell has lasted this long.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Sounds like a mess

Tiebreakers can be a mess in any conference.

[UNHWildcat18]

...AH DON'T UNDERSTAND........IN THIS THREAD.......TOO MANY.....MAKIN' ARBITRARY STATEMENTS.....WHIFF NO EXPLANATION.......WHAA DO YOUSE SAY "ISN'T FEASIBLE FOR TOO LONG"....IFIN' IT'S FEASIBLE....TA BEGIN WHIFF...??....AWK!


HOW WILL IT EFFECT NON FOOTBALL?.........POSTERS NEED TA BACK UP STATEMENTS....WHIFF REASONS.....&...LINKS.............BRAWK!

....TOO MUCH HERESAY....&....POPPYCOCK.....IN SOME UH DEESE THREADS.........AWQ!


I mean look at what has happened this year........ I don't think I need peer reviewed sources to say I think another big wave of realignment is coming next year as well....

It's feasible for the moment otherwise we wouldn't be here.. Also 16 teams fighting for a max of 4 playoff spots is pretty ****ty. UD fans would be the first to complain when they miss playoffs when a crappier team with a better record from playing weaker teams due the schedule does over them. (I know UNH 7-4 way back when yada yada) Just saying I don't think anyone is going to be happy in a 16 team FCS conference for long. Just IMHO

[MR. CHICKEN]

I mean look at what has happened this year........ I don't think I need peer reviewed sources to say I think another big wave of realignment is coming next year as well....

It's feasible for the moment otherwise we wouldn't be here.. Also 16 teams fighting for a max of 4 playoff spots is pretty ****ty. UD fans would be the first to complain when they miss playoffs when a crappier team with a better record from playing weaker teams due the schedule does over them. (I know UNH 7-4 way back when yada yada) Just saying I don't think anyone is going to be happy in a 16 team FCS conference for long. Just IMHO



....SHOODAH PUT THOSE THOUGHTS....IN YER ORIGINAL POST.......ALL AH'M ASKIN'.......IS EXPLANATION.......xhugx......BRAWK!

[Sitting Bull]

I am just amazed that a thread about Campbell has lasted this long.

And this is only about one new add in the CAA. I didn’t do the math but I would bet the majority are commentary from non CAA full members, which is a bit strange.

I like overall the Campbell add and it has grown on me the more I’ve studied it. Upwardly mobile and strategic location for CAA, 30 miles outside Raleigh. We will be hosting them in our home opener and expect to see a fair showing of Orange (great new color for the membership!) at Zable.

Most impressive to me though is how aggressively the CAA attacked their two major issues; strengthening the all sports core and responding to the travel concerns from the members. If you are part of the core CAA, you have to like that. And despite some of the snark on here, I think they brought in quality adds. I would only question Hampton. The other 4, well done.

The interest and comments from those outside the CAA core here is I think part frustration and part sour grapes. They are either losing leverage (the football affiliates) or living in conferences that are inactive growing their respective bases.

[MR. CHICKEN]

And this is only about one new add in the CAA. I didn’t do the math but I would bet the majority are commentary from non CAA full members, which is a bit strange.

I like overall the Campbell add and it has grown on me the more I’ve studied it. Upwardly mobile and strategic location for CAA, 30 miles outside Raleigh. We will be hosting them in our home opener and expect to see a fair showing of Orange (great new color for the membership!) at Zable.

Most impressive to me though is how aggressively the CAA attacked their two major issues; strengthening the all sports core and responding to the travel concerns from the members. If you are part of the core CAA, you have to like that. And despite some of the snark on here, I think they brought in quality adds. I would only question Hampton. The other 4, well done.

The interest and comments from those outside the CAA core here is I think part frustration and part sour grapes. They are either losing leverage (the football affiliates) or living in conferences that are inactive growing their respective bases.

.......HARD TA LISTEN TA PATSY POSTERS....ON CAA GROWTH.........WHEN DAT CONFERENCE........IS UH SH$T-SHOW..........NO WONDER CHESNEY...IS AN UP AN' COMER......PADDIN' HIS' DUBBYA'S.......ON DAT TRIPE.....AWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

......LOOK HOW......TEAMS IMPROVED IN DUH VALLEY......IN EFFORT....TA CURB BIZON.......REIGN...............MO. STATE/N&S DAKOTA/SOUFFERN ILLINOIS.....ARE TOUGH OUTS........WON'T TAKE LONG FO' CAMPBELL ETAL......TA CATCH UP....WHIFF 'NOVA........DEY'RE EX-QB....STEERED 'CATS TA GLORY......AWK!

[FUBeAR]

The interest and comments from those outside the CAA… They are…living in conferences that are inactive growing their respective bases.
Wait by the river long enough and the body of your enemy will float by you. (https://www.azquotes.com/quote/541310)

Sun Tzu (https://www.azquotes.com/author/19687-Sun_Tzu)

[MR. CHICKEN]

Wait by the river long enough and the body of your enemy will float by you. (https://www.azquotes.com/quote/541310)

Sun Tzu (https://www.azquotes.com/author/19687-Sun_Tzu)


....PULL DUH CORPSES....FROM....BIG SOUFF SWAMP........DRAG CHARLESTON SOUFFERN/GARDNER-WEBB.....INTA SOGONE......&....SEND DUH YANKEES.....BACK HOME...........AWK!

[Sir William]

DRAG CHARLESTON SOUFFERN/GARDNER-WEBB.....INTA SOGONE

Not happening. Not desperate. SoCon in good shape.

[mvfcfan]

If anything I think the SOCON could poach the CAA at this point, particularly non-football members UNC-Wilmington and the College of Charleston. At this point the SOCON is clearly a step up in men's basketball.

[MR. CHICKEN]

If anything I think the SOCON could poach the CAA at this point, particularly non-football members UNC-Wilmington and the College of Charleston. At this point the SOCON is clearly a step up in men's basketball.


....UMM.....DUH INK AIN'T DRY ON DUH FOOTBALL ADDS........AN' CAMPBELL/NCA&T......WOOD BOLT...??.........TRUE DAT ON ROUNDBALL......AWK!

[FUBeAR]

Not happening. Not desperate. SoCon in good shape.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/c2/cd/35c2cddc5b910721dfb92000e3c8ac37.gif

[kdinva]

Not happening. Not desperate. SoCon in good shape.


.....This.....

[Libertine]

....PULL DUH CORPSES....FROM....BIG SOUFF SWAMP........DRAG CHARLESTON SOUFFERN/GARDNER-WEBB.....INTA SOGONE.....

I sincerely doubt that D1 football will exist much longer at CSU and the G-W fanbase seems to be finally starting to accept that their eventual destination is the Pioneer. I also don't believe that the CAA's en masse additions are actually improving their conference's stability nor is the SoCon particularly better off for doing nothing. Just a whole lot of wobbling and delusion going on in the east coast FCS.

[NY Crusader 2010]

If anything I think the SOCON could poach the CAA at this point, particularly non-football members UNC-Wilmington and the College of Charleston. At this point the SOCON is clearly a step up in men's basketball.

Charleston just finished paying their exorbitant exit fee to LEAVE the SoCon and join the CAA....

[Dane96]

I think Charleston's only move is to the A-10. Otherwise, they seem to be happy in the CAA.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think Charleston's only move is to the A-10. Otherwise, they seem to be happy in the CAA.

Which if they keep adding schools, it will soon be the Atlantic 30.

[Tribal]

I think Charleston's only move is to the A-10. Otherwise, they seem to be happy in the CAA.

I’d say the same for UNCW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dane96]

I’d say the same for UNCW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed

[ElCid]

I also don't believe that the CAA's en masse additions are actually improving their conference's stability nor is the SoCon particularly better off for doing nothing.

Why? I think the SOCON is very stable. Adding some team that doesn't fit would be worse than doing nothing, so I'm not sure I see your point.

Campbell probably would have fit, I don't know enough about them, but the delicate balance we have between public and private would have required the addition of a public and there are just not any that really fit. Not sure we really wanted KSU. And their time in FCS may be limited, even if it is ten more years.

As it stands now, we got three big public, two small specialized public, and four privates, including a big private. Four big publics outside of football. So it's a nice balance. Adding "just" Campbell would have upset the apple cart. The only private/public adds I would seek out are Richmond/W&M.

[FUBeAR]

The only private/public adds I would seek out are Richmond/W&M.
https://c.tenor.com/PSF4MDN5yzsAAAAC/come-home-cat.gif

[UNHWildcat18]

Why? I think the SOCON is very stable. Adding some team that doesn't fit would be worse than doing nothing, so I'm not sure I see your point.

Campbell probably would have fit, I don't know enough about them, but the delicate balance we have between public and private would have required the addition of a public and there are just not any that really fit. Not sure we really wanted KSU. And their time in FCS may be limited, even if it is ten more years.

As it stands now, we got three big public, two small specialized public, and four privates, including a big private. Four big publics outside of football. So it's a nice balance. Adding "just" Campbell would have upset the apple cart. The only private/public adds I would seek out are Richmond/W&M.

Sounds about right, KSU has the designs for their expanded stadium but it still doesn't seem like FBS size. Unless they go C-USA tomorrow I don't think they are leaving FCS anytime soon. IF they stay fcs and expand their stadium I can see them giving you guys a phone call again.

[FUBeAR]

Sounds about right, KSU has the designs for their expanded stadium but it still doesn't seem like FBS size. Unless they go C-USA tomorrow I don't think they are leaving FCS anytime soon. IF they stay fcs and expand their stadium I can see them giving you guys a phone call again.
The owlets Hoops prowess, or extreme lack of, is way more important to the SoCon than their Women’s Soccer Stadium size

[kdinva]

The owlets Hoops prowess, or extreme lack of, is way more important to the SoCon than their Women’s Soccer Stadium size

Agree 105%.....thier men's hoops program would drag the SoCon down two slots in the RPI.

[Sir William]

The owlets Hoops prowess, or extreme lack of, is way more important to the SoCon than their Women’s Soccer Stadium size
Bingo.

[UNHWildcat18]

The owlets Hoops prowess, or extreme lack of, is way more important to the SoCon than their Women’s Soccer Stadium size

I think their expansion plan that I read had a strong focus on improving basketball as well but you are right! SoCon basketball is very strong right now. Can't take a big hit like that

[Libertine]

Why? I think the SOCON is very stable. Adding some team that doesn't fit would be worse than doing nothing, so I'm not sure I see your point.

Campbell probably would have fit, I don't know enough about them, but the delicate balance we have between public and private would have required the addition of a public and there are just not any that really fit. Not sure we really wanted KSU. And their time in FCS may be limited, even if it is ten more years.

As it stands now, we got three big public, two small specialized public, and four privates, including a big private. Four big publics outside of football. So it's a nice balance. Adding "just" Campbell would have upset the apple cart. The only private/public adds I would seek out are Richmond/W&M.

If the goal is stability then, sure, the SoCon is in fine shape in that they have a group of schools that seem seem content with the status quo and put a premium on remaining together above all other considerations. But, this is "fine" in the same sense that the Patriot League is fine. From a competitive standpoint, the SoCon used to be the class FCS but is getting passed by, in that the gap between the top of the SoCon and the top of FCS is now large and only getting larger.

To be fair, I don't know that SoCon reps haven't explored expansion or reached out to schools to gauge their interest, but the image being projected by the SoCon -- deciding to just stand pat because "everything here is fine" -- comes across as a bit willfully obtuse, particularly as the CAA expands their footprint into what has been the SoCon's philosophical and geographical territory. For example, I agree that KSU doesn't fit the SoCon but Campbell, NC A&T and Hampton would all have been better fits in the SoCon than they are in the CAA and could arguably have made that conference stronger. Meanwhile, the CAA taking those schools on may be an improved situation for the schools but doesn't really do much for the CAA in terms of stability or quality as a whole and only exacerbates the regional and philosophical differences in a conference that has always been a bit schizophrenic to begin with.

Meanwhile, the SoCon's seeming disinterest in the face of other conference's aggression is only helping to create opportunities for other schools and conferences; I seriously doubt that the A-Sun would have even considered trying to cobble together a football conference if the SoCon were still the dominant athletic power that it used to be. When Campbell and A&T would rather be conference mates with Stony Brook, Albany and Rhode Island instead of Furman, Wofford and Chattanooga, there's a disconnect somewhere. There is a fine line between stability and stagnation and, in my opinion, the SoCon is happily, unknowingly yet surely backing itself into a corner.

[Sir William]

If the goal is stability then, sure, the SoCon is in fine shape in that they have a group of schools that seem seem content with the status quo and put a premium on remaining together above all other considerations. But, this is "fine" in the same sense that the Patriot League is fine. From a competitive standpoint, the SoCon used to be the class FCS but is getting passed by, in that the gap between the top of the SoCon and the top of FCS is now large and only getting larger.

To be fair, I don't know that SoCon reps haven't explored expansion or reached out to schools to gauge their interest, but the image being projected by the SoCon -- deciding to just stand pat because "everything here is fine" -- comes across as a bit willfully obtuse, particularly as the CAA expands their footprint into what has been the SoCon's philosophical and geographical territory. For example, I agree that KSU doesn't fit the SoCon but Campbell, NC A&T and Hampton would all have been better fits in the SoCon than they are in the CAA and could arguably have made that conference stronger. Meanwhile, the CAA taking those schools on may be an improved situation for the schools but doesn't really do much for the CAA in terms of stability or quality as a whole and only exacerbates the regional and philosophical differences in a conference that has always been a bit schizophrenic to begin with.

Meanwhile, the SoCon's seeming disinterest in the face of other conference's aggression is only helping to create opportunities for other schools and conferences; I seriously doubt that the A-Sun would have even considered trying to cobble together a football conference if the SoCon were still the dominant athletic power that it used to be. When Campbell and A&T would rather be conference mates with Stony Brook, Albany and Rhode Island instead of Furman, Wofford and Chattanooga, there's a disconnect somewhere. There is a fine line between stability and stagnation and, in my opinion, the SoCon is happily, unknowingly yet surely backing itself into a corner.

You are correct when you say "To be fair, I don't know that SoCon reps haven't explored expansion or reached out to schools to gauge their interest...." Other than that, you lost me.

The question I would pose back to you would be "what schools in your opinion should the SoCon add at this point?" We can discuss ad nauseum about whether they should have added NC A&T and possibly Campbell, and we would likely agree on most of that discussion. But those schools are soon to be in the CAA, so the discussion about that is mute and pretty pointless.

"To be fair", the CAA expansion is not to be compared to the SEC and Big 10 expansion in FBS. It is not comparable. Both the SEC and Big 10 are adding storied and historically excellent programs to their stable, and likely more over the next few years. The CAA's expansion with NC A&T, Campbell, Hampton and Monmouth is to be commended - I guess - as all of those are nice schools, but none are historical powerhouses in FCS. I'm just making this point so that we don't go down a long-winded rabbit hole that compares apples and oranges somehow.

The formation of the ASUN had nothing to do with the SoCon, except possibly in the eyes of a few Kennesaw fans. Currently, Kennesaw is not ready as a complete athletic program to compete in the SoCon. Not a put down, just the fact at present. That could eventually change. IMHO, the only school in the current ASUN that I could see as SoCon material is EKU - but I digress.

You say the SoCon is coming across as "obtuse". Maybe you're not looking at it the right way. It could be that the SoCon leadership is patiently waiting. Waiting patiently for what, you may ask? Waiting patiently to see whether or not the cobbled-together ASUN (as you put it) actually survives long-term (doubtful). Waiting patiently to see whether or not the southern half of the CAA ultimately pulls away from a possibly oversaturated league (possible, who knows). Waiting patiently to be in a position to add the right schools at the right time. Nothing obtuse about it, my friend!

Then again, maybe the SoCon is waiting patiently for nothing, believing we are better as we are for the time being. Addition for the sake of addition does not necessarily equal a better or stronger future. We're in good shape, and not in any way "backed into a corner".

[walliver]

I don’t know if any of us know what college football will look like in 5 years. I suspect most SoCon schools are in a wait and see mode. The only real benefit to the CAA having 15-16 members would be the future possibility that multiple members would leave in some near-term realignment.

[DFW HOYA]

Maybe in a perfect world the Southern would be the following, but that's not the way college athletics is these days:

Campbell
The Citadel
Davidson
Elon
Furman
NC Central
NC A&T
Norfolk St.
Richmond
VMI
Western Carolina
William & Mary

[The Cats]

If the goal is stability then, sure, the SoCon is in fine shape in that they have a group of schools that seem seem content with the status quo and put a premium on remaining together above all other considerations. But, this is "fine" in the same sense that the Patriot League is fine. From a competitive standpoint, the SoCon used to be the class FCS but is getting passed by, in that the gap between the top of the SoCon and the top of FCS is now large and only getting larger.

To be fair, I don't know that SoCon reps haven't explored expansion or reached out to schools to gauge their interest, but the image being projected by the SoCon -- deciding to just stand pat because "everything here is fine" -- comes across as a bit willfully obtuse, particularly as the CAA expands their footprint into what has been the SoCon's philosophical and geographical territory. For example, I agree that KSU doesn't fit the SoCon but Campbell, NC A&T and Hampton would all have been better fits in the SoCon than they are in the CAA and could arguably have made that conference stronger. Meanwhile, the CAA taking those schools on may be an improved situation for the schools but doesn't really do much for the CAA in terms of stability or quality as a whole and only exacerbates the regional and philosophical differences in a conference that has always been a bit schizophrenic to begin with.

Meanwhile, the SoCon's seeming disinterest in the face of other conference's aggression is only helping to create opportunities for other schools and conferences; I seriously doubt that the A-Sun would have even considered trying to cobble together a football conference if the SoCon were still the dominant athletic power that it used to be. When Campbell and A&T would rather be conference mates with Stony Brook, Albany and Rhode Island instead of Furman, Wofford and Chattanooga, there's a disconnect somewhere. There is a fine line between stability and stagnation and, in my opinion, the SoCon is happily, unknowingly yet surely backing itself into a corner.

Why do you think the SoCon should get "bigger" just to get bigger? 9 is perfect for football and 10 is great for basketball. We tried having three that only played basketball once, and we are better now in round ball than when we had the 12 playing basketball and were divided into divisions.

15 or 16 are too many schools in a conference, watch what happens to the CAA, it's unruly and schools will leave for better fits in a few years. Example, Elon and Charleston wanted exposure in the northeast (trolling for students), now most of that exposure will not happen due to the divisional setup coming to the CAA.

The SoCon would have taken back Richmond and W&M (still would), but there is no one else in the CAA that interests the SoCon membership. Most schools would vote against Charleston and Elon returning, that ship has sailed in both directions, but I'm sure the ASUN would be interested...

[FUBeAR]

If the goal is stability then, sure, the SoCon is in fine shape in that they have a group of schools that seem seem content with the status quo and put a premium on remaining together above all other considerations. But, this is "fine" in the same sense that the Patriot League is fine. From a competitive standpoint, the SoCon used to be the class FCS but is getting passed by, in that the gap between the top of the SoCon and the top of FCS is now large and only getting larger.

To be fair, I don't know that SoCon reps haven't explored expansion or reached out to schools to gauge their interest, but the image being projected by the SoCon -- deciding to just stand pat because "everything here is fine" -- comes across as a bit willfully obtuse, particularly as the CAA expands their footprint into what has been the SoCon's philosophical and geographical territory. For example, I agree that KSU doesn't fit the SoCon but Campbell, NC A&T and Hampton would all have been better fits in the SoCon than they are in the CAA and could arguably have made that conference stronger. Meanwhile, the CAA taking those schools on may be an improved situation for the schools but doesn't really do much for the CAA in terms of stability or quality as a whole and only exacerbates the regional and philosophical differences in a conference that has always been a bit schizophrenic to begin with.

Meanwhile, the SoCon's seeming disinterest in the face of other conference's aggression is only helping to create opportunities for other schools and conferences; I seriously doubt that the A-Sun would have even considered trying to cobble together a football conference if the SoCon were still the dominant athletic power that it used to be. When Campbell and A&T would rather be conference mates with Stony Brook, Albany and Rhode Island instead of Furman, Wofford and Chattanooga, there's a disconnect somewhere. There is a fine line between stability and stagnation and, in my opinion, the SoCon is happily, unknowingly yet surely backing itself into a corner.
Nice to see all the SoCon posters here thinking in synch. That sure wasn’t the case before we were fortunate enough to shed a bunch of whining, malcontented, carpetbagging, social-climbing wannabes. Speaking of…and not to pick on the Iggles alone….but FUBeAR did recently see somewhere that GaSou is projected to finish last in the Suck Bleccch South this season. Bringing up the rear is where they should always be…”in a perfect world.”

Libertine - you’ve said a lot in the post FUBeAR has quoted. Not feelin’ up to breaking it all down today, but you’ve presented several premises here and then drawn ‘reasonable conclusions’ around the actions that the SoCon should or has failed to make related to those premises.

The problem is one has to accept your premises as FACTS, to agree with your conclusions. FUBeAR (and apparently SoCon Officials & Members) reject your premises, so FUBeAR, et al must also find your conclusions invalid.

Appreciate the thoughts, but…honestly…

https://c.tenor.com/cEGFIL-MNIEAAAAM/we-good-chris-redd.gif

[Sitting Bull]

I love the So Con and agree overall, no issues. Very stable today, everyone seems content. Really don’t see any need for any moves and given the conference footprint and the demographic trends, there are a solid number of eventual new contenders if needed in the future (G-W, Winthrop, High Point, etc).

The CAA had issues to address which the So Con does not - namely stabilizing the all sports membership and travel costs. The new adds have solved both.

I think Libertine is touching on how the CAAs growth footprint has entered into previously So Con territory, namely North Carolina. North Carolina now has more members in the CAA - 4 now with Campbell - than any other state in league footprint. And vs the So Con, the CAA now has 4 teams in NC vs just 2 now for the So Con. So really it’s been a shift the past 10 years where at the FCS/mid major level, North Carolina is firmly now CAA territory. And back to the thread at hand, Campbell was one more major feather in that hat.

[FUBeAR]

I love the So Con and agree overall, no issues. Very stable today, everyone seems content. Really don’t see any need for any moves and given the conference footprint and the demographic trends, there are a solid number of eventual new contenders if needed in the future (G-W, Winthrop, High Point, etc).

The CAA had issues to address which the So Con does not - namely stabilizing the all sports membership and travel costs. The new adds have solved both.

I think Libertine is touching on how the CAAs growth footprint has entered into previously So Con territory, namely North Carolina. North Carolina now has more members in the CAA - 4 now with Campbell - than any other state in league footprint. And vs the So Con, the CAA now has 4 teams in NC vs just 2 now for the So Con. So really it’s been a shift the past 10 years where at the FCS/mid major level, North Carolina is firmly now CAA territory. And back to the thread at hand, Campbell was one more major feather in that hat.
Campbell-Schmampbell - Buies Creek is where FUBeAR’s Dirt/Tobacco-Farmin’ Eastern NC kin’s kids go because they can’t get accepted into EZU in the big city of Greenville.

Elon-B’gon - Formerly Fightin’ Former Christians backslid their way into imaginin’ they’re located in Essex County, NJ instead of being a muddy spot in the road outside of the mill-town of Burlington, NC

AT&T - 3 conferences in 2 years. They’re getting around the FCS like Davis’ Mama at the bar last night! (IYKYK)

UNC-by-the-sea - C-riously?

https://c.tenor.com/PSF4MDN5yzsAAAAC/come-home-cat.gif

[ElCid]

If the goal is stability then, sure, the SoCon is in fine shape in that they have a group of schools that seem seem content with the status quo and put a premium on remaining together above all other considerations. But, this is "fine" in the same sense that the Patriot League is fine. From a competitive standpoint, the SoCon used to be the class FCS but is getting passed by, in that the gap between the top of the SoCon and the top of FCS is now large and only getting larger.

To be fair, I don't know that SoCon reps haven't explored expansion or reached out to schools to gauge their interest, but the image being projected by the SoCon -- deciding to just stand pat because "everything here is fine" -- comes across as a bit willfully obtuse, particularly as the CAA expands their footprint into what has been the SoCon's philosophical and geographical territory. For example, I agree that KSU doesn't fit the SoCon but Campbell, NC A&T and Hampton would all have been better fits in the SoCon than they are in the CAA and could arguably have made that conference stronger. Meanwhile, the CAA taking those schools on may be an improved situation for the schools but doesn't really do much for the CAA in terms of stability or quality as a whole and only exacerbates the regional and philosophical differences in a conference that has always been a bit schizophrenic to begin with.

Meanwhile, the SoCon's seeming disinterest in the face of other conference's aggression is only helping to create opportunities for other schools and conferences; I seriously doubt that the A-Sun would have even considered trying to cobble together a football conference if the SoCon were still the dominant athletic power that it used to be. When Campbell and A&T would rather be conference mates with Stony Brook, Albany and Rhode Island instead of Furman, Wofford and Chattanooga, there's a disconnect somewhere. There is a fine line between stability and stagnation and, in my opinion, the SoCon is happily, unknowingly yet surely backing itself into a corner.

Well, I'm not sure how Campbell, NC A&T, and Hampton would have benefited us, but not benefit the CAA in regard to strength and stability. Does not compute. Adding schools that don't really fit, just for the sake of change, is always a poor choice. There has to be benefit for all involved and I just don't see those schools adding much. Maybe good for them, but that is half the equation. I can bet you they would have loved to have joined the SOCON. But they weren't invited. As it is, they got their second choice. You can call it stagnation, but that is just spin.

[Tribal]

All 3 of those schools help build to conference and provide much needed travel partners for schools south of DC. It’s a win-win.

The CAA is big and the head shed probably figures a few CAA schools will leave over the next 5 years. Another thought - the CAA may be pulling a land developer stunt and buying up all the local land so someone else can’t. I’d love for Albany to join as a full member. That would lock up most non-PL or A10 “FCS” schools from NY to NC.

I still think we’ll establish a POD system once the dust clears. I’m happy with the progress.

[FUBeAR]

All 3 of those schools help build to conference and provide much needed travel partners for schools south of DC. It’s a win-win.

The CAA is big and the head shed probably figures a few CAA schools will leave over the next 5 years. Another thought - the CAA may be pulling a land developer stunt and buying up all the local land so someone else can’t. I’d love for Albany to join as a full member. That would lock up most non-PL or A10 “FCS” schools from NY to NC.

I still think we’ll establish a POD system once the dust clears. I’m happy with the progress.
https://c.tenor.com/PSF4MDN5yzsAAAAC/come-home-cat.gif

[KPSUL]

Hitting it all on the head, squarely.

KPSUL asked why Albany would want to join the CAA, same question he had for SBU. One simple reason: having all of its major sports in one league. UNH and Albany were actually offered the opportunity back when SBU and Albany joined for football. UNH declined, Albany was not ready and also did not feel comfortable not having SBU on board (Hofstra block). UNH's declination was due to travel costs.

However, with pods, those travel costs are muted.
'
Good historical insight and explanation for the NY schools thinking. I wonder if SB would have made the same decision had they known that NC A&T, Campbell and likely one more school from VA or NC would be joining one year later? I think I could sum up in one word why NH and Maine are looking at this differently - Hockey. Both are in Hockey East Conference, and both have a big investment in Men's and Women's Ice Hockey. Another NCAA sport at the Div 1 level, Skiing, takes a big investment by UNH. I think UNH is perfectly happy with AE for the majority of our other sports and the CAAFB for football. CAAFB isn't going to force any members out, nor can they unless serious violations of NCAA or CAAFB rules occur. There are a couple of trump cards the CAA can play on CAAFB membership and they seem to be playing them now. Any CAA full member school that has a football team is "entitled" to play in CAAFB and full membership in the CAA is decided by a 3/4 vote of full CAA members. So for all intents and purposes the members of CAAFB who are not in the CAA have had no say in admitting the recent additions to CAAFB. Also, 3/4 of both the members of CAAFB and the CAA must vote for admitting new football-only members to CAAFB. Now I have no idea how the UNH administration, or any other football only CAAFB member, feels about the recent additions; however it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that collectively Maine, UNH, URI, NOVA, Richmond and Albany could become disenchanted with the CAA decision-making and decide to play football elsewhere.

[NY Crusader 2010]

'
Good historical insight and explanation for the NY schools thinking. I wonder if SB would have made the same decision had they known that NC A&T, Campbell and likely one more school from VA or NC would be joining one year later? I think I could sum up in one word why NH and Maine are looking at this differently - Hockey. Both are in Hockey East Conference, and both have a big investment in Men's and Women's Ice Hockey. Another NCAA sport at the Div 1 level, Skiing, takes a big investment by UNH. I think UNH is perfectly happy with AE for the majority of our other sports and the CAAFB for football. CAAFB isn't going to force any members out, nor can they unless serious violations of NCAA or CAAFB rules occur. There are a couple of trump cards the CAA can play on CAAFB membership and they seem to be playing them now. Any CAA full member school that has a football team is "entitled" to play in CAAFB and full membership in the CAA is decided by a 3/4 vote of full CAA members. So for all intents and purposes the members of CAAFB who are not in the CAA have had no say in admitting the recent additions to CAAFB. Also, 3/4 of both the members of CAAFB and the CAA must vote for admitting new football-only members to CAAFB. Now I have no idea how the UNH administration, or any other football only CAAFB member, feels about the recent additions; however it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that collectively Maine, UNH, URI, NOVA, Richmond and Albany could become disenchanted with the CAA decision-making and decide to play football elsewhere.

Great post overall.

As far as Stony Brook, yes. They've been pining to get into the same conference as Hofstra for 10+ years now. The southern adds made sense for the CAA, which wanted to appease C of C and UNCW -- these schools believe it or not had more travel miles in conference than Northeastern. Might be my northeast bias but I still think Fairfield would be a perfect plug to bridge the gap between the LI schools and Boston. If the league is even considering expanding further at this time.

[Reign of Terrier]

My thoughts on this. I'll start with my Socon hat on(points 1-9), then I'll put on my FCS hat.


Once the Big South basically died, it was only a matter of time before Campbell landed somewhere better. It was either going to be the Socon or the CAA.
Someone earlier in the thread talked about Campbell not being a great school relative to the CAA, and I would just throw the nuance that Campbell is very much a regionally recognized school. Lots of people in the Carolinas and Virginia are heading that way nowadays.
The reason why #2 is a thing is because it's an up and coming school. They're good in basketball and committed (by FCS standards) to football. They have also made the good decision to keep their stadium small (by FCS standards) because it creates a great environment (it's better than Wofford's, and barring the last two years, Wofford has been leaps and bounds a better program)
The biggie: The reason why the Socon is content and why this isn't a heart-breaking development is one thing: money. The Socon has great basketball right now relative to the Big South, CAA, etc and that's anchoring lots of decisions for football, basketball, and conference expansion.
Given the $2m exit fee and the fact that other FCS conferences that would make geographic sense are just not anywhere near the Socon in basketball (looking at you A-Sun), there's a strong disincentive to leave. Mostly financial. One day, I could see UTC, ETSU, and maybe even Mercer being one of those programs that constantly delivers and get whispered about for FBS (they have Coastal Carolina vibes). But those days are a decade+ in the future.
Given all of the above, if the Socon was going to expand, it would make sense to take Campbell. But that ship has passed now. Time will tell if this is a missed opportunity.
If the Socon expands, they're not going to go after Gardner Webb or Charleston Southern. Those programs add nothing in terms of geography, quality of play, or academics. I don't mean that as a slight on those school (if you went there and graduated, congratulations on being the 30% of people who get a college degree!), but those are just the perceptions, if not reality of those schools
The Socon, in expansion, would probably go after Virginia Schools like Richmond, William & Mary, and also Campbell if it truly wanted to expand (cut some costs for VMI in terms of travel expenses because those bus trips are long!). With this Campbell addition to the CAA, the probability of this already-unlikely scenario fell. The only reason it would have happened is if W&M and Richmond didn't like the travel costs of the conference, which have been at least slightly mitigated.
I'm a little disappointed by the lack of ambition to expand by the Socon. It makes perfect sense for basketball, but for football: it's pretty obvious that being in a conference where not everyone is an asset when vying for FCS playoff invitations. You get there by getting there by being huge. See below.
I think the future of the CAA in FCS is similar to the Socon. They're not going to have that one elite team that has boat loads of cash (raised by student fees or not) and is a named candidate for FBS promotion. But they're going to have a lot of solid teams that are going to be continuously screwed by the committee after the first or second round of the playoffs because of the lacking elite power.
It's possible the latter point doesn't happen because they're so darn big that they can inflate their records by not playing everyone. In this way, the CAA will have an advantage.
For the last couple of points, when I talk about "inflating the record" I'm not derailing the thread to say how the Socon is screwed or how we're better than the CAA (we're not). If your $100 investment goes up 10% when there's 5% inflation, it's value increased 5% (or something like that). The value of the "investment" that is the CAA has been higher (without JMU, we'll see) than the socon, but that inflation is also there. But it's a credit to the CAA because it's smart to set up your conference this way. The socon isn't, and it makes sense for basketball (the money maker), but sucks for more exciting football.

[katss07]

Delaware has lots of cash and is seemingly committed the FCS, and given the void left by JMU, would it be a surprise to see old powers like UD, New Hampshire, Villanova, ect. step up in a sense? Maybe not to a JMU extent, but those names are still respected within the FCS to where I don’t believe the drop off will be as harsh as App State/GaSouthern’s SoCon exists were in terms of perception of the quality of conference. The CAA’s willingness to add schools that seem to be rising in FCS prominence (Monmouth and NC A&T specifically, IMO) helps as well.

Don’t see why it won’t still be a three-four bid league every season, while the SoCon fights to stay out of the one bid discussion.

[caribbeanhen]

Delaware has lots of cash and is seemingly committed the FCS, and given the void left by JMU, would it be a surprise to see old powers like UD, New Hampshire, Villanova, ect. step up in a sense? Maybe not to a JMU extent, but those names are still respected within the FCS to where I don’t believe the drop off will be as harsh as App State/GaSouthern’s SoCon exists were in terms of perception of the quality of conference. The CAA’s willingness to add schools that seem to be rising in FCS prominence (Monmouth and NC A&T specifically, IMO) helps as well.

Don’t see why it won’t still be a three-four bid league every season, while the SoCon fights to stay out of the one bid discussion.

Delaware has just announced another $80 million investment into football facilities, Which by the way are already some of the best if not the best in FCS .. (No Stadium pictures necessary, I’m not really talking about the Stadium)

so what does this all mean?

It means it would be pretty silly to invest that much money into facilities if FCS is the long-term plan

[WestCoastAggie]

Stay tuned because A&T will be making similar announcements during this School Year. Hopefully.

[katss07]

Delaware has just announced another $80 million investment into football facilities, Which by the way are already some of the best if not the best in FCS .. (No Stadium pictures necessary, I’m not really talking about the Stadium)

so what does this all mean?

It means it would be pretty silly to invest that much money into facilities if FCS is the long-term plan
The pictures and videos I’ve seen of UD’s recent facility updates look great. They’d be a solid addition to any G5 conference. But who is coming to get them? Not the Sun Belt. Has the MAC ship sailed?

[caribbeanhen]

The pictures and videos I’ve seen of UD’s recent facility updates look great. They’d be a solid addition to any G5 conference. But who is coming to get them? Not the Sun Belt. Has the MAC ship sailed?

thats the big question and if anyone has the answer their not saying

[DFW HOYA]

Delaware has just announced another $80 million investment into football facilities, Which by the way are already some of the best if not the best in FCS .. (No Stadium pictures necessary, I’m not really talking about the Stadium) so what does this all mean?

It means it would be pretty silly to invest that much money into facilities if FCS is the long-term plan

FBS would be a tectonic shift for the regions UDel recruits for students. A SBC Eastern Division would be much different for Hens fans:

App State
Coastal Carolina
Delaware
Georgia State
James Madison
Marshall
Old Dominion

Or an eastern division of the MAC?
Akron
Bowling Green State
Buffalo
Delaware
Kent State
Miami
Ohio

[Sitting Bull]

Delaware has just announced another $80 million investment into football facilities, Which by the way are already some of the best if not the best in FCS .. (No Stadium pictures necessary, I’m not really talking about the Stadium)

so what does this all mean?

It means it would be pretty silly to invest that much money into facilities if FCS is the long-term plan

That is a chunk if 80 million is all for football. It sounds like an indoor practice facility is the primary target?

W&M just announced a 58 million new athletic investment this Spring though much of that is updating the basketball arena. The renovation of Zable and Laycock Center in the 5-10 year stretch was another $40m.

Maybe this is more about positioning which is smart. Or maybe UD wants facilities more competitive with ND State, Montana, SD State, etc. Their investments have led to consistent championship drives. Depending on how things develop over the next few years, I think there are possibly up to 5 or 6 CAA schools who would be prepared for bigger things if they became an opportunity. I’m not sure it’s designed strictly as bait for the Sun Belt or MAC.

[mainejeff]

Maine has announced $110 million in athletic facility improvements.

[Libertine]

All valid points. I would just like to make a couple of points on your points:


The biggie: The reason why the Socon is content and why this isn't a heart-breaking development is one thing: money. The Socon has great basketball right now relative to the Big South, CAA, etc and that's anchoring lots of decisions for football, basketball, and conference expansion.
The SoCon has great basketball compared to the Big South but is about even in terms of conference RPI with the CAA and has been for several years. The rankings slide around a bit but both conferences are consistently ranked in the low-to-mid teens. Yes, you're correct that basketball anchors a lot of decisions for non-FBS conferences which is precisely why I think it's important that the SoCon needs to be looking at expansion, if for no other reason than to avoid getting stuck in the CAA's wake.


If the Socon expands, they're not going to go after Gardner Webb or Charleston Southern. Those programs add nothing in terms of geography, quality of play, or academics. I don't mean that as a slight on those school (if you went there and graduated, congratulations on being the 30% of people who get a college degree!), but those are just the perceptions, if not reality of those schools
Unless it's the Pioneer League, G-Webb and CSU are done factoring into any conference's expansion plan.


I'm a little disappointed by the lack of ambition to expand by the Socon. It makes perfect sense for basketball, but for football: it's pretty obvious that being in a conference where not everyone is an asset when vying for FCS playoff invitations. You get there by getting there by being huge.
I disagree that it makes sense to stay smaller for basketball because the same concept applies to the NCAA tourney as it does the FCS playoffs. Smaller conferences with fewer quality teams get fewer invites. More teams in the Dance means more money, better media coverage and rights packages and more prestige for the conference.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

That is a chunk if 80 million is all for football. It sounds like an indoor practice facility is the primary target?

W&M just announced a 58 million new athletic investment this Spring though much of that is updating the basketball arena. The renovation of Zable and Laycock Center in the 5-10 year stretch was another $40m.

Maybe this is more about positioning which is smart. Or maybe UD wants facilities more competitive with ND State, Montana, SD State, etc. Their investments have led to consistent championship drives. Depending on how things develop over the next few years, I think there are possibly up to 5 or 6 CAA schools who would be prepared for bigger things if they became an opportunity. I’m not sure it’s designed strictly as bait for the Sun Belt or MAC.

If it's a facilities, money tossing arms race some of the Patriot League schools still stack up quite well with the elites of FCS. Lehigh, Lafayette and Holy Cross all have or will have top-shelf facilities across the board for their student-athletes. Colgate's are also quite good all things considered. Fordham lags behind because of location, Bucknell is so-so and we all know Georgetown's deficiencies. This is simply to state as college athletics, especially football, continues to evolve largely due to resource availability there are a lot of nuances to consider when it comes to formal and informal associations....

* Just dawned on me there's far more FCS programs in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic who have elite level facilities relative to their peers than in FBS where it's Penn State and everyone else. Between the Ivy League, PL and CAA there's some damn good facilities. Now that I think of it, it's a fascinating dynamic and goes back to a recent ESPN.com article.....

[DFW HOYA]

If it's a facilities, money tossing arms race some of the Patriot League schools still stack up quite well with the elites of FCS. Lehigh, Lafayette and Holy Cross all have or will have top-shelf facilities across the board for their student-athletes. Colgate's are also quite good all things considered. Fordham lags behind because of location, Bucknell is so-so and we all know Georgetown's deficiencies. This is simply to state as college athletics, especially football, continues to evolve largely due to resource availability there are a lot of nuances to consider when it comes to formal and informal associations....

It raises this question: if clothes maketh the man, do facilities maketh the team? There are some teams with absolutely outstanding facilities that never rise to the top and vice versa. Fordham is playing with minimal facilities and does fine. Georgetown** could have NFL quality facilities and it might not even matter. An indoor field is a nice to have and a recruiting value-add (assuming you are allowed to compete for players in the first place**) but it's not going to elevate the PL beyond a one bid league.

[ElCid]

It raises this question: if clothes maketh the man, do facilities maketh the team? There are some teams with absolutely outstanding facilities that never rise to the top and vice versa. Fordham is playing with minimal facilities and does fine. Georgetown** could have NFL quality facilities and it might not even matter. An indoor field is a nice to have and a recruiting value-add (assuming you are allowed to compete for players in the first place**) but it's not going to elevate the PL beyond a one bid league.

Yup. Money can be nice, but it will not make a team alone. Money never replaces some shortfalls regardless of the endeavor.

[caribbeanhen]

Yup. Money can be nice, but it will not make a team alone. Money never replaces some shortfalls regardless of the endeavor.

it doesn’t hurt recruiting though, kiddies and parents liking what they see at UD. Talent matters

[KPSUL]

It raises this question: if clothes maketh the man, do facilities maketh the team? There are some teams with absolutely outstanding facilities that never rise to the top and vice versa. Fordham is playing with minimal facilities and does fine. Georgetown** could have NFL quality facilities and it might not even matter. An indoor field is a nice to have and a recruiting value-add (assuming you are allowed to compete for players in the first place**) but it's not going to elevate the PL beyond a one bid league.

Case in point, UNH was the consensus choice for the worst facilities in Atlantic 10/CAA until the extensive renovations were completed before the 2016 season (except for perhaps Northeastern which dropped football in 2009). But during the period 2004 thru the 2015 season UNH was 59-11 at home (21-5 vs Top25), won a dozen playoff games and made the playoffs every year.

[Reign of Terrier]

All valid points. I would just like to make a couple of points on your points:


The SoCon has great basketball compared to the Big South but is about even in terms of conference RPI with the CAA and has been for several years. The rankings slide around a bit but both conferences are consistently ranked in the low-to-mid teens. Yes, you're correct that basketball anchors a lot of decisions for non-FBS conferences which is precisely why I think it's important that the SoCon needs to be looking at expansion, if for no other reason than to avoid getting stuck in the CAA's wake.


Unless it's the Pioneer League, G-Webb and CSU are done factoring into any conference's expansion plan.


I disagree that it makes sense to stay smaller for basketball because the same concept applies to the NCAA tourney as it does the FCS playoffs. Smaller conferences with fewer quality teams get fewer invites. More teams in the Dance means more money, better media coverage and rights packages and more prestige for the conference.

I don't disagree with really anything here. But the reason why the Socon is staying small is because there's not really any teams that have made geographic sense other than Campbell (Or Richmond, or William & Mary, who were always going to be hard sells). Expansion sounds great, but if basketball is king, it really doesn't make sense to take on many other viable candidates that make sense in football, like Kennesaw.

[Reign of Terrier]

Also, I'm not really sure what people mean when they say "top facilities" or what have you. Like sure, you have the indoor practice facility if you're NDSU, but I have heard from at least one player parent at Wofford that Wofford has better facilities than a lot of FCS teams (they mentioned an Ivy league team, Cornell? I can't remember specifically), which is interesting to me. Our facilities are pretty much an athlete's-only weight room, a very nice new basketball arena that has pretty good capacity for practice facilities, and an athletics building that was built in the late 90s.

I'm not really sure the ROI on a lot of facilities other than "it looks nice and convenient to use relative to what we have now." I think the NDSU-like indoor practice facility is something regionally needed (it's cold in Fargo!) but I don't see it as a barrier to national championships to anyone outside of those geographically-located teams.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Case in point, UNH was the consensus choice for the worst facilities in Atlantic 10/CAA until the extensive renovations were completed before the 2016 season (except for perhaps Northeastern which dropped football in 2009). But during the period 2004 thru the 2015 season UNH was 59-11 at home (21-5 vs Top25), won a dozen playoff games and made the playoffs every year.

..........ANOMALY!.......xwhistlex.....BRAWK!

[Anthony215]

Maine has announced $110 million in athletic facility improvements.

I wonder if any of that money will go towards the football stadium?

[Dane96]

I wonder if any of that money will go towards the football stadium?

major upgrades to the stadium, including a smaller version of what ODU put into their endzone

[dunbar]

major upgrades to the stadium, including a smaller version of what ODU put into their endzone

A little of an overstatement. Basically, a new track will be built elsewhere, a new basketball facility (where FB ops will be relocated as well) will be built in the south endzone, and the field and east stands will be shifted towards the home side.

[KPSUL]

Maine has announced $110 million in athletic facility improvements.

Mr. Alfond should change his name to Mr. Fund-all ! xnodx