Athlon Preseason Top 25

[crusader11]

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/athlon-sports-preseason-fcs-top-25-2022

Not much respect shown to the Ivy.

[Milktruck74]

Don't go staking the house on these picks....of the 5 mentioned in the Mocs write up...two will not be back next season, and one really won't play much.

[caribbeanhen]

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/athlon-sports-preseason-fcs-top-25-2022

Not much respect shown to the Ivy.

If I’m not mistaken, Haley has a long history of disrespecting the Ivies knowing full well the top Ivies are easily top 25 FCS teams

[caribbeanhen]

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/athlon-sports-preseason-fcs-top-25-2022

Not much respect shown to the Ivy.

but Holy Cross got a ton of respect

As for his Delaware, his write up hit the key points especially the winning record when Nolan Henderson plays. He was out last year with an injury.

He mentions All CAA WR Pitts and transfer J Witcher From Presbyterian, but doesn’t mention Michael Jackson from VMI and Chandler Harvin from Sam Houston, but that’s OK because I’m not gonna let anybody forget about them.

[Redbird 4th & short]

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/athlon-sports-preseason-fcs-top-25-2022

Not much respect shown to the Ivy.

Some love it, some hate it .. it depends on your perspective

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https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRAbp_Z4QMgDAlykNsHySAnZuQ-5YWLeMo8ZQ&usqp=CAU

[MR. CHICKEN]

Don't go staking the house on these picks....of the 5 mentioned in the Mocs write up...two will not be back next season, and one really won't play much.


.........HARD FO' MAGAZINES TA STAY CURRENT....AS DUH PORTALS SWINGIN' DOOR......CHANGES DUH INFO.....INK NOT DRY....AN' PLAYERS HAVE ALREADY....COME 'N GONE...AWK!!

[Daytripper]

If I’m not mistaken, Haley has a long history of disrespecting the Ivies knowing full well the top Ivies are easily top 25 FCS teams

It looks like he is only ranking those that are playoff eligible.

[Daytripper]

It looks like he is only ranking those that are playoff eligible.

Never mind. Just saw Jackson State.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

but Holy Cross got a ton of respect

As for his Delaware, his write up hit the key points especially the winning record when Nolan Henderson plays. He was out last year with an injury.

He mentions All CAA WR Pitts and transfer J Witcher From Presbyterian, but doesn’t mention Michael Jackson from VMI and Chandler Harvin from Sam Houston, but that’s OK because I’m not gonna let anybody forget about them.

The Holy Cross accolades are very much justified! Easily the best returning PL team since Fordham in 2015 imo. Even better than what Colgate in 2019 should have been. Lehigh in 2017 could have been Top 15ish but Coen's health made that impossible....

[DFW HOYA]

The Holy Cross accolades are very much justified! Easily the best returning PL team since Fordham in 2015 imo. Even better than what Colgate in 2019 should have been. Lehigh in 2017 could have been Top 15ish but Coen's health made that impossible....

That said, the rest of the PL is way, way down. HC could be at the top another four or five years.

[caribbeanhen]

That said, the rest of the PL is way, way down. HC could be at the top another four or five years.

that’s probably not gonna help them too much when they try to win that big playoff game and I’m not talking about that first round match up with Bryant or Sacred Heart

[caribbeanhen]

Never mind. Just saw Jackson State.

Yep, and if you’re gonna include Jackson State you should include an Ivy

Better yet Jackson State versus Dartmouth in the Celebration Bowl

[DFW HOYA]

that’s probably not gonna help them too much when they try to win that big playoff game and I’m not talking about that first round match up with Bryant or Sacred Heart

Here were the end of season Sagarin ratings below Holy Cross in the Patriot League (out of 258 Div. I schools):

197 Fordham (6-5)
224 Colgate (5-6)
229 Lafayette (3-8)
234 Lehigh (3-8)
246 Georgetown (2-8)
254 Bucknell (1-10)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

that’s probably not gonna help them too much when they try to win that big playoff game and I’m not talking about that first round match up with Bryant or Sacred Heart

I think Holy Cross was prepared to play Villanova last year. Holy Cross simply needs to get more explosive on offense imo to take the next step nationally....

[FUBeAR]

I think Holy Cross was prepared to play Villanova last year. Holy Cross simply needs to get more explosive on offense imo to take the next step nationally....
Will HC’s OC from last season moving to Furman in the off-season help or hurt HC’s explosiveness on Offense this coming season?

[crusader11]

Will HC’s OC from last season moving to Furman in the off-season help or hurt HC’s explosiveness on Offense this coming season?

New OC at Holy Cross (Chris Smith) isn't so new. He was a four-year starter at Center for HC (graduated in 2009) and then has spent the majority of his coaching career as the offensive line coach / recruiting coordinator.

I don't see the offense changing much under his watch. It should be better with Matt Sluka having a full year under his belt.

Some HC fans get a little frustrated with an often conservative, run-first approach that the offense takes...but that is due to Chesney and not the OC.

Chesney-coached teams are always going to excel in special teams and be very good on defense, while the offense looks to win the TOP. That said, with the number of talented skilled players and Sluka entering his junior season, I'll be surprised if the playbook doesn't get opened up a bit more this season.

[centraljerseycat]

I think Holy Cross was prepared to play Villanova last year. Holy Cross simply needs to get more explosive on offense imo to take the next step nationally....

The Crusaders impressed the hell out of me in last year's playoff game at Villanova. Would be a nice home/home series to schedule.

[Baron Sardonicus]

San Diego should be in the top-25. Re-Al Mitchell and Chris Childers have transferred in to give the backfield some spark. The defensive front is very good. The old coach wins 75 percent of his games. Too bad the Ivies won't play USD any more.

[atthewbon]

Never mind. Just saw Jackson State.

Jackson State is technically playoff eligible though I don’t think playoff eligibility was a criteria for him. Interestingly he didn’t include Sam Houston, I think I heard somewhere that Sam Houston and Jacksonville st won’t be apart of the stats poll (don’t remember where). It’ll be interesting to see what AGS or AGS voters decide to do. I think all voters should do the same thing, we either all consider them or no one considers them.

[Daytripper]

Jackson State is technically playoff eligible though I don’t think playoff eligibility was a criteria for him. Interestingly he didn’t include Sam Houston, I think I heard somewhere that Sam Houston and Jacksonville st won’t be apart of the stats poll (don’t remember where). It’ll be interesting to see what AGS or AGS voters decide to do. I think all voters should do the same thing, we either all consider them or no one considers them.

I agree. I was planning on continuing to vote in the AGS poll and not including Sam Houston or Jacksonville State because they are no longer tied to the scholarship limits of FCS during their transition.

[McCowboys]

Jackson State is technically playoff eligible though I don’t think playoff eligibility was a criteria for him. Interestingly he didn’t include Sam Houston, I think I heard somewhere that Sam Houston and Jacksonville st won’t be apart of the stats poll (don’t remember where). It’ll be interesting to see what AGS or AGS voters decide to do. I think all voters should do the same thing, we either all consider them or no one considers them.

I asked this question in the AGS Poll sub-forum. Two people replied. Both said Sam Houston and Jacksonville State have left and will be playing with more players than other FCS teams, and so they should be excluded. I agree, but I will wait for Ursus to give the final say.

[Daytripper]

I asked this question in the AGS Poll sub-forum. Two people replied. Both said Sam Houston and Jacksonville State have left and will be playing with more players than other FCS teams, and so they should be excluded. I agree, but I will wait for Ursus to give the final say.

I agree. If they are not playing by the same scholarship rules, they shouldn't be part of the rankings.

[ElCid]

I agree. If they are not playing by the same scholarship rules, they shouldn't be part of the rankings.

My voting will not include them.

[bonarae]

San Diego should be in the top-25. Re-Al Mitchell and Chris Childers have transferred in to give the backfield some spark. The defensive front is very good. The old coach wins 75 percent of his games. Too bad the Ivies won't play USD any more.

Are you guys open to playing Big Sky and WAC teams in the future?

[FUBeAR]

Are you guys open to playing Big Sky and WAC teams in the future?
The non-scholarship Toreros have been very open to defeating Big Sky Teams in the Playoffs in the recent past. FUBeAR likes to see those types of matchups!

[OhioHen]

Jackson State is technically playoff eligible though I don’t think playoff eligibility was a criteria for him. Interestingly he didn’t include Sam Houston, I think I heard somewhere that Sam Houston and Jacksonville st won’t be apart of the stats poll (don’t remember where). It’ll be interesting to see what AGS or AGS voters decide to do. I think all voters should do the same thing, we either all consider them or no one considers them.
Even within the AGS poll there is a difference here. Some people include the Ivies and SWAC teams. Others refuse to rank teams from those conferences because they don't consider then "full FCS" members.

[bonarae]

The non-scholarship Toreros have been very open to defeating Big Sky Teams in the Playoffs in the recent past. FUBeAR likes to see those types of matchups!

In the regular season, too? I'm hyped for that!

[Baron Sardonicus]

Are you guys open to playing Big Sky and WAC teams in the future?

I'd think so. Especially Cal Poly.

[wapiti]

I'd think so. Especially Cal Poly.

I'm surprised you didn't list UNCU as another Big Sky team you want to play. They would be an easier game to win.

[wapiti]

The non-scholarship Toreros have been very open to defeating Big Sky Teams in the Playoffs in the recent past. FUBeAR likes to see those types of matchups!

That does not mean the players don't have a scholarship. Some may have multiple scholarships.

[FUBeAR]

That does not mean the players don't have a scholarship. Some may have multiple scholarships.
FUBeAR is very familiar with PFL Football & their financial model. As PFL Football Teams do not (or are not permitted to by conference rules) offer ATHLETICS Scholarships, FUBeAR believes they are often & typically referred to here as “non-scholarship.” Apologies if the phrasing in FUBeAR’s initial post confused anyone.

[caribbeanhen]

I know there was a lot of people that thought Rhode Island was a good football team last year it looks like Mr. Heroder bought into all the hype

Rhode Island at number 14 in the country is a joke

14. Rhode Island(7-4, 4-4 CAA)
The Rams' seven wins were the most since they had eight in 2001. They are strong in the trenches, which is welcome news to quarterback Kasim Hill and the running backs, including Kevin Brown Jr. back from injury, plus for cornerback Jordan Jones (five interceptions) and safety O'Neil "Buzz" Robinson to operate on the back end of the defense

[wapiti]

FUBeAR is very familiar with PFL Football & their financial model. As PFL Football Teams do not (or are not permitted to by conference rules) offer ATHLETICS Scholarships, FUBeAR believes they are often & typically referred to here as “non-scholarship.” Apologies if the phrasing in FUBeAR’s initial post confused anyone.

It's not confusing, but it needs to be clear that there are ways around the "Non-Scholarship" rule. I would not be surprised if most of the players for San Diego have a scholarship (many may be full ride equivalent.)

[Catatonic]

It's not confusing, but it needs to be clear that there are ways around the "Non-Scholarship" rule. I would not be surprised if most of the players for San Diego have a scholarship (many may be full ride equivalent.)
Non athletic scholarship rule to be more precise. Academic scholarships or grants/scholarships that cover a percentage of demonstrated need may indeed be the equivalent of a full ride.

[FUBeAR]

It's not confusing, but it needs to be clear that there are ways around the "Non-Scholarship" rule. I would not be surprised if most of the players for San Diego have a scholarship (many may be full ride equivalent.)
Sure…but the PFL (and/or its member schools), unlike the current NCAA, has a track record of investigating, enforcing, and penalizing schools that seem to ‘cross the line’ and award financial aid to Football Players beyond what non-football-playing students with similar financial aid need and/or academic accomplishments would receive. San Diego and former member, Jacksonville, both had some combination of wins vacated, titles revoked, and playoff opportunities forfeited for violation of the PFL’s NO ATHLETICS SCHOLARSHIPS FOR FOOTBALL PLAYERS rules in the recent past.

FUBeAR understands, as a supporter of a Big Sky program, you seem to want to discount and disparage those PFL non-scholarship Teams’ wins over FULL 63 ATHLETICS SCHOLARSHIPS FOR FOOTBALL PLAYERS Big Sky Playoff Teams, but it just comes across as…

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/annoyingorange/images/d/de/SourGrapes.png

[ElCid]

Even within the AGS poll there is a difference here. Some people include the Ivies and SWAC teams. Others refuse to rank teams from those conferences because they don't consider then "full FCS" members.

I don't think that is an accurate evaluation. I think it's the entire playoff participation thing for many (most?). Which is quite different from viewing them as not "full FCS."

[DFW HOYA]

It's not confusing, but it needs to be clear that there are ways around the "Non-Scholarship" rule. I would not be surprised if most of the players for San Diego have a scholarship (many may be full ride equivalent.)

Clarifying this:

There are 20 non-scholarship programs in FCS/I-AA. Of these, 11 schools offer merit aid upon admission. Even if an athletic scholarship is not available, academic scholarships are available at the following schools. Most offer up to half the cost of tuition, while the Belk Scholarship at Davidson is a full ride. No guarantee a football player would get this, but it is available.

Butler University (Pioneer)
Davidson College (Pioneer)
University of Dayton (Pioneer)
Drake University (Pioneer)
Marist College (Pioneer)
Morehead State University (Pioneer)
Presbyterian College (Pioneer)
University of St. Thomas (Pioneer)
University of San Diego (Pioneer)
Stetson University (Pioneer)
Valparaiso University (Pioneer)

Nine schools do not offer athletic scholarships for football and do not offer merit awards of any kind.

Brown University (Ivy)
Columbia University (Ivy)
Cornell University (Ivy)
Dartmouth College (Ivy)
Georgetown University (Patriot)
Harvard University (Ivy)
University of Pennsylvania (Ivy)
Princeton University (Ivy)
Yale University (Ivy)

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

This strikes me as a fair assessment. I figured ETSU may have a fall-off from last season with all the turnover (18th overall -> 3rd SoCon). Chattanooga and Mercer are right where I thought they would be as right there team-wise. Furman was listed as one of the five teams to watch. No offense to Furman, they have been underwhelming the past couple of seasons. If there is anyone SoCon team that I would not sleep on, it's Western Carolina.

[FUBeAR]

Furman was listed as one of the five teams to watch. No offense to Furman, they have been underwhelming the past couple of seasons.
So…you’re saying Furman was “underwhelming” as they whipped ETSU in 2019, 2020, and led the entire 2021 game vs. the SoCon Champion Bucs, save the final 9 seconds???



Qtr
Time
ETSU
FUR


1st
09:52
0
3


2nd
12:48
0
6


2nd
01:30
3
6


3rd
11:39
3
13


3rd
05:33
10
13


4th
00:09
17
13



What term to describe the 1-2 vs. Furman - and pulled the 1 outta their hindquarters at the last second - similar to “underwhelming,” would you use to describe your Bucs “the past couple of seasons” then?

[Cocky]

Unless forced I have no plans to include JSU or Sam this year. Both are playing by a different set of rules. May not help the performance but still.

[OhioHen]

I don't think that is an accurate evaluation. I think it's the entire playoff participation thing for many (most?). Which is quite different from viewing them as not "full FCS."
The comments are along the lines of "I don't include any teams that don't fully participate in FCS." Yes, they mean playoff participation. That's where I draw the "full FCS" terminology.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Unless forced I have no plans to include JSU or Sam this year. Both are playing by a different set of rules. May not help the performance but still.


......IN DUH....AGS POLL FORUM........."QUESTIONS ABOUT UPCOMING SEASON" THREAD........POST #5........URSUS HAS DECIDED...NOT TA ALLOW.....JSU/SAM.....IN POLL.........AWK!

[Milktruck74]

.........HARD FO' MAGAZINES TA STAY CURRENT....AS DUH PORTALS SWINGIN' DOOR......CHANGES DUH INFO.....INK NOT DRY....AN' PLAYERS HAVE ALREADY....COME 'N GONE...AWK!!

I completely forgive the portal guys....it is very hard to keep up with all them...but Chris James was a 7 year guy LAST SEASON!!!!

[ElCid]

The comments are along the lines of "I don't include any teams that don't fully participate in FCS." Yes, they mean playoff participation. That's where I draw the "full FCS" terminology.

Ah. Got it.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I completely forgive the portal guys....it is very hard to keep up with all them...but Chris James was a 7 year guy LAST SEASON!!!!

.....MAYBE....TIME TA FORGIVE....NCAA.............BRAWK!

[Redbird 4th & short]

Seems like criteria for FCS ranking should be straight forward .. either abide by the D-I FCS schollie rules (or less), and/or be FCS playoff eligible. Either or both, should do it.

Though I do find it hypocritical that Ivy League does playoffs for all other sports, except football. But they are FCS regardless of that choice and I think should be ranked.

[aceinthehole]

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/athlon-sports-preseason-fcs-top-25-2022

Not much respect shown to the Ivy.

Why should they? Don't we have the same discussion every year?

[crusader11]

Why should they? Don't we have the same discussion every year?

They had an Ivy (Dartmouth) in their final top 25 of the 2021 season. If one was good enough to finish with a ranking, then Ivy teams should be ranked in the preseason...unless, of course, Craig Haley doesn't think one of these schools is one of the 25 best teams.

[nevadagriz]

I don't consider non-playoff teams and transition teams to be FCS. I get why SWAC and MEAC teams play the celebration bowl (money) but would love to see their top teams in the playoffs.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I don't consider non-playoff teams and transition teams to be FCS. I get why SWAC and MEAC teams play the celebration bowl (money) but would love to see their top teams in the playoffs.
but they are still eligible for at large bids, so they have to be included in all ranking .. i would think.

[nevadagriz]

but they are still eligible for at large bids, so they have to be included in all ranking .. i would think.
Which is exactly why I hope JSU finishes second and participates in the Play-offs.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

So…you’re saying Furman was “underwhelming” as they whipped ETSU in 2019, 2020, and led the entire 2021 game vs. the SoCon Champion Bucs, save the final 9 seconds???



Qtr
Time
ETSU
FUR


1st
09:52
0
3


2nd
12:48
0
6


2nd
01:30
3
6


3rd
11:39
3
13


3rd
05:33
10
13


4th
00:09
17
13



What term to describe the 1-2 vs. Furman - and pulled the 1 outta their hindquarters at the last second - similar to “underwhelming,” would you use to describe your Bucs “the past couple of seasons” then?

Fair question, I will concede that the last three games were all decided by seven points or less and that Furman went 2-1 agaimst ETSU during that time. I also looked at the bigger picture:

- Spring 2021: Since Furman beat ETSU, they lost to a Chattanooga team that eventually became ChattaQuitta which started a three-game losing streak that would have ended vs. Wofford except it got cancelled. Furman finished sixth in conference play.
- Fall 2021: Since ETSU pulled that win out of their hindquarters, Furman would go to lose (again) to a NottaQuitta team that had the SoCon all but sewn up if it was not for that pesky Mercer team (the rest was history) and then lose to a resurgent Western Carolina side before picking off VMI and Samford to finish fifth in conference play.

Clay Hendrix took Furman to the playoffs twice (2017-Torbush's last year at ETSU, 2019) whilst the since-retired Randy Sanders took ETSU to the playoffs twice (2018, Fall 2021).