NIL

[atthewbon]

https://twitter.com/nflprospectspod/status/1522019724359454720?s=21&t=JigsEdDwgI1BT3DkHgDoCw

SDSU TE Tucker Kraft was apparently offered 6 figure NIL deals from Power 5 teams. NIL is going to have a huge impact on fcs football. It’s going to be wild until the Power 5 finally breaks away from the NCAA and make a sort of professional league or at least until this NCAA restructuring is complete. Which looks like it could happen soon.

I’m personally in favor of NIL but the way it’s working now is so unsustainable and bad college sports. To me it seems like the final nail in the coffin to the NCAA’s involvement in power 5 football.

Has anyone heard of other fcs players receiving this type of money to transfer? I’d find it hard to pass up and can’t blame any players from taking it.

[POD Knows]

https://twitter.com/nflprospectspod/status/1522019724359454720?s=21&t=JigsEdDwgI1BT3DkHgDoCw

SDSU TE Tucker Kraft was apparently offered 6 figure NIL deals from Power 5 teams. NIL is going to have a huge impact on fcs football. It’s going to be wild until the Power 5 finally breaks away from the NCAA and make a sort of professional league or at least until this NCAA restructuring is complete. Which looks like it could happen soon.

I’m personally in favor of NIL but the way it’s working now is so unsustainable and bad college sports. To me it seems like the final nail in the coffin to the NCAA’s involvement in power 5 football.

Has anyone heard of other fcs players receiving this type of money to transfer? I’d find it hard to pass up and can’t blame any players from taking it.
Did he transfer??

[lionsrking2]

Who could have seen this coming. 🙄

[wapiti]

6 figures!!!!!!!!! That seems a bit extreme or does that include down to the penny??? Maybe I do not understand that amount of $$ involved with big FBS schools.

What if a player receives a huge NIL deal, but then turns out to be a dud on the football field?? I suppose how that is handled would depend on the contract associated to the NIL deal.

[atthewbon]

Did he transfer??

I don't believe so.

[atthewbon]

6 figures!!!!!!!!! That seems a bit extreme or does that include down to the penny??? Maybe I do not understand that amount of $$ involved with big FBS schools.

What if a player receives a huge NIL deal, but then turns out to be a dud on the football field?? I suppose how that is handled would depend on the contract associated to the NIL deal.

It's not crazy apparently Jordan Addison who is transferring from Pitt is looking at a $3 million NIL deal. There have been reports that top 2023 football commits are getting deals worth up to $2 million a year. I doubt any fcs to fbs transfers will get that kind of money but 6 figures is definitely believable the way things are going.

[Professor Chaos]

Funny that the big boys of college athletics wanted autonomy and now that they have it they're whining about the need for NIL regulation from the NCAA or "a smaller group": https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33858420/sec-pac-12-commissioners-visit-washington-pursuit-help-nil-policies-source-says

[Professor Chaos]

Comment from a current NDSU senior DE regarding Kraft's interview:

https://twitter.com/jkava8/status/1522227512083890179

[Daytripper]

The end of the NCAA football structure was coming. NIL just expedited the process. Good. The sooner the P5 leave to form their corporate NFL minor leagues with university sponsorships, the better. I just hope what is left (G5 and below) can create a equitable and sustainable system that benefits schools still adhering to, and believing in, the student-athlete model of college athletics.

[Hammerhead]

Or maybe Kraft made up those offers hoping the Taco John's in Brookings will offer him an endorsement deal to make sure he doesn't change his mind. xeyebrowx



Comment from a current NDSU senior DE regarding Kraft's interview:

https://twitter.com/jkava8/status/1522227512083890179

[ST_Lawson]

6 figures!!!!!!!!! That seems a bit extreme or does that include down to the penny??? Maybe I do not understand that amount of $$ involved with big FBS schools.

What if a player receives a huge NIL deal, but then turns out to be a dud on the football field?? I suppose how that is handled would depend on the contract associated to the NIL deal.

Six figures is pocket change for the top earning programs. If you're an SEC or Big 10 program, or a few others (Notre Dame, Oregon, Florida State, etc.) you could probably swing an average of 100k at 100 players (so, $10 million total) without even blinking. Obviously that'll vary based on the player and the school, but if they're trying to bring in a solid player with experience and are reasonably certain that player is good enough to start, then they'd have no problem shelling out that kind of money.

[Hammerhead]

It will be interesting to see what happens when college kids are "paid" more than their coaches.

[Daytripper]

Six figures is pocket change for the top earning programs. If you're an SEC or Big 10 program, or a few others (Notre Dame, Oregon, Florida State, etc.) you could probably swing an average of 100k at 100 players (so, $10 million total) without even blinking. Obviously that'll vary based on the player and the school, but if they're trying to bring in a solid player with experience and are reasonably certain that player is good enough to start, then they'd have no problem shelling out that kind of money.

The SEC team with the #1 rated recruiting class in history bought that class with NIL money. Texas A&M was ahead of the curve. Whether we like the system or not, they played (fast and loose) within the rules and were the best at using the system to their advantage. Others will learn from it. It will now be an NIL $ arms race in the upper P5. In the long run it will put more pressure on the coaches to succeed at a high level because this money is coming from alumni boosters and they are going to want results.

[Professor Chaos]

Six figures is pocket change for the top earning programs. If you're an SEC or Big 10 program, or a few others (Notre Dame, Oregon, Florida State, etc.) you could probably swing an average of 100k at 100 players (so, $10 million total) without even blinking. Obviously that'll vary based on the player and the school, but if they're trying to bring in a solid player with experience and are reasonably certain that player is good enough to start, then they'd have no problem shelling out that kind of money.
Although I'm sure there are (and if there isn't there will be) instances where big checkbook boosters pay a guy or guys to transfer and when they get there they find out that the coaches don't want them or don't have room for them. Whatever I guess, the players still get their money but it would leave a bad taste in your mouth as a competitor to have that happen to you and waste a year of eligibility not even on any roster.

[Daytripper]

Although I'm sure there are (and if there isn't there will be) instances where big checkbook boosters pay a guy or guys to transfer and when they get there they find out that the coaches don't want them or don't have room for them. Whatever I guess, the players still get their money but it would leave a bad taste in your mouth as a competitor to have that happen to you and waste a year of eligibility not even on any roster.

That is the price you pay when you prioritize chasing the money over looking for a good school/program fit.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The NCAA and Congress are making some interesting noises about shutting these collectives down. I don't know where this will end up. It seems like it would require Congress legislating, which seems very unlikely. But it sure looks to me like agents are spooked. I find it curious that FAMU's Isaiah Land was advertising his P5 offers, and two days later announced he's staying at FAMU.

[JacksFan40]

If nothing is done to regulate NIL, I imagine you’ll start to see teams like SDSU and NDSU lose players to the local P5 schools like Nebraska and Minnesota. While Kraft is staying as of now, I’d imagine some other players would jump on the opportunity to go play P5 ball and make good money.

FCS schools will have to adapt and try and use NIL to poach top D2 players or players from smaller FCS programs.

[Daytripper]

If nothing is done to regulate NIL, I imagine you’ll start to see teams like SDSU and NDSU lose players to the local P5 schools like Nebraska and Minnesota. While Kraft is staying as of now, I’d imagine some other players would jump on the opportunity to go play P5 ball and make good money.

FCS schools will have to adapt and try and use NIL to poach top D2 players or players from smaller FCS programs.

It is not like every player will get NIL money. Remember that there are still (for now) scholarship limits and academic requirements. I think the powers-that-be are going to find some ways to reign in the most egregious aspects of this system while keeping the system intact.

[Hammerhead]

It is not like every player will get NIL money. Remember that there are still (for now) scholarship limits and academic requirements. I think the powers-that-be are going to find some ways to reign in the most egregious aspects of this system while keeping the system intact.

Minnesota probably doesn't have the donors to start waving wads of cash for dozens of players every year. I'm guessing some players will still go to the FCS if they want to increase chances for more playing time.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Fans wanted this for those poor, exploited players.

I am apathetic to the whole situation. Everyone from the players, coaches, and the schools want the whole pie.

[Bill]

I can't wait for the first headlines that read "Player X arrested on three counts of tax evasion/fraud"... and then losing their ability to actually receive an athletic scholarship. Sad...but it's going to happen at some pointxeyebrowx

[lionsrking2]

I can't wait for the first headlines that read "Player X arrested on three counts of tax evasion/fraud"... and then losing their ability to actually receive an athletic scholarship. Sad...but it's going to happen at some pointxeyebrowx
It’s 100% going to happen. Like a 2x4 to the head.

[Sycamore62]

I wasnt even worth a 6-figurine deal back in the 90's

Maybe MASK or He-Man but definitely not GI Joe or Star Wars

[bonarae]

NIL has gone out of control, sadly...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-coaches-leaders-share-candid-thoughts-on-future-of-nil-we-all-feel-like-theres-no-rules/

[atthewbon]

https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1523775828739325952?s=21&t=ZKU8t6aqYEbZQ1g_6p6p-g

The NCAA released new guidelines for NIL I doubt this changes much though. There is no incentives for colleges to follow this rule because the NCAA won’t do anything about it. Like some people have said here I think this is the beginning of the end of the NCAA’s involvement in P5 football and maybe more. Or at the very least there will be a dramatic restructuring that will give more power to the conferences/schools.

[NY Crusader 2010]

https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1523775828739325952?s=21&t=ZKU8t6aqYEbZQ1g_6p6p-g

The NCAA released new guidelines for NIL I doubt this changes much though. There is no incentives for colleges to follow this rule because the NCAA won’t do anything about it. Like some people have said here I think this is the beginning of the end of the NCAA’s involvement in P5 football and maybe more. Or at the very least there will be a dramatic restructuring that will give more power to the conferences/schools.

I agree. I think the horse is out of the barn. Re-structuring of some kind seems inevitable. I don't even think it's sustainable for all of the P5 schools. The gap between the Alabama, Oregon, Clemson, Texas and Ohio State's of the world compared to schools like Vanderbilt, Boston College, Wake Forest and Maryland is going to widen.

Are upstarts like Georgia Southern, App State and James Madison spitting into a hurricane right now? Guess we'll see. Let's see to what extent the NCAA regulates some of these boosters and fugasi "corporations" divvying up the NIL $$.

In addition to being able to raise massive funds to ensure they land all the top athletes, another issue that's not being talked about: bigger schools can now use NIL funds to create additional de facto scholarships. Let's say Nebraska boosters are able to raise $10 million for NIL to be spread out amongst a roster. What's to say they can't set aside 25K of those funds to obtain a PWO commitment from a guy with scholarship offers from Central Michigan and North Dakota State?

[atthewbon]

I agree. I think the horse is out of the barn. Re-structuring of some kind seems inevitable. I don't even think it's sustainable for all of the P5 schools. The gap between the Alabama, Oregon, Clemson, Texas and Ohio State's of the world compared to schools like Vanderbilt, Boston College, Wake Forest and Maryland is going to widen.

Are upstarts like Georgia Southern, App State and James Madison spitting into a hurricane right now? Guess we'll see. Let's see to what extent the NCAA regulates some of these boosters and fugasi "corporations" divvying up the NIL $$.

In addition to being able to raise massive funds to ensure they land all the top athletes, another issue that's not being talked about: bigger schools can now use NIL funds to create additional de facto scholarships. Let's say Nebraska boosters are able to raise $10 million for NIL to be spread out amongst a roster. What's to say they can't set aside 25K of those funds to obtain a PWO commitment from a guy with scholarship offers from Central Michigan and North Dakota State?

I agree with all of that besides for Maryland being in that bottom group (might be the biased Maryland fan in me talking but although the football team hasn't been good recently there is enough investment there to eventually be competitive). The way I could see it happen is a formation of a 60 or so team league (like Dabo Swinney alluded to earlier this year). Maybe the Big Ten and SEC both go to 20 teams and 20 other teams form a 3rd conference. Or an even smaller 30 team or so league forms if they really want to consolidate. This would have huge ripple effects over the whole college sports landscape that will no doubt trickle down to the FCS. It really feels like we are reaching a breaking point with the NCAA. I think it'll be an interesting few years.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I agree with all of that besides for Maryland being in that bottom group (might be the biased Maryland fan in me talking but although the football team hasn't been good recently there is enough investment there to eventually be competitive). The way I could see it happen is a formation of a 60 or so team league (like Dabo Swinney alluded to earlier this year). Maybe the Big Ten and SEC both go to 20 teams and 20 other teams form a 3rd conference. Or an even smaller 30 team or so league forms if they really want to consolidate. This would have huge ripple effects over the whole college sports landscape that will no doubt trickle down to the FCS. It really feels like we are reaching a breaking point with the NCAA. I think it'll be an interesting few years.

I think you'll see some form of a super-division with somewhere in the ballpark of 40-60 schools for football. The "new normal" IMO will see different structures for other sports -- or it's possible that football really becomes the only one to totally break off. Schools like Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, Maryland, Virginia and Illinois, for example will obviously remain major players in whatever the top division becomes for Men's Basketball. Probably 150 or so schools as opposed to 60, if it doesn't just remain the way it is now. Either way, in the world of NIL, the gap between the halves and the halve-nots will also widen in hoops. Imagine Kentucky being able to offer their 12 scholarship players at least $1 million each in NIL earnings plus at least 30-50K to 3 or 4 preferred walk-ons to "cover" their tuition and give them de facto schollies.

And w.r.t. Maryland, there's a massive, massive difference in the amount of funds the alumni bases will be able to generate at the top, top programs like Alabama and Texas relative to the likes of Maryland, Georgia Tech, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Pitt and Rutgers. Even with the new NCAA regulations, you bet these schools will find a way to get around it. You really expect the NCAA to launch a full-scale investigation of every third party "corporation" siphoning NIL funds? Don't think so. These schools might even outsource ticket and concession sales to third party vendors to ensure players get a revenue cut. They may even find a way do do this with the cable contracts too.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Entertain this scenario for a second. Congress realizes that collectives will destroy college sports if they are allowed to exist as they are today - because they will. But Congress doesn't want to get in the business of micromanaging college sports, either. So what they do is legislate an antitrust exemption (maybe a limited one) for the NCAA to be able to enforce hard limits on NIL collectives - maybe even make them illegal. That way, college football players can still get some of the more admirable aspects of NIL (Spotify money for songs they create, Adsense money on blogs they create, insta money, their own names on books they write, etc.) while destroying the part that is truly destroying college sports by making it basically minor league sports, i.e. the collectives abusing NIL rules to offer contracts.

Something key to remember here is - I don't think the schools themselves are enamored with runaway collectives that they have no control over, but are responsible for. I get the impression that a lot of these programs feel like they need it to not "be behind" - but I don't think anyone loves this.

The NCAA hasn't been great, but they remain the only, best way to get things under control here. Those that are hoping for the NCAA to get broken and destroyed will almost certainly hate what spawns from its ashes.

[FUBeAR]

Entertain this scenario for a second. Congress realizes that collectives will destroy college sports if they are allowed to exist as they are today - because they will. But Congress doesn't want to get in the business of micromanaging college sports, either. So what they do is legislate an antitrust exemption (maybe a limited one) for the NCAA to be able to enforce hard limits on NIL collectives - maybe even make them illegal. That way, college football players can still get some of the more admirable aspects of NIL (Spotify money for songs they create, Adsense money on blogs they create, insta money, their own names on books they write, etc.) while destroying the part that is truly destroying college sports by making it basically minor league sports, i.e. the collectives abusing NIL rules to offer contracts.

Something key to remember here is - I don't think the schools themselves are enamored with runaway collectives that they have no control over, but are responsible for. I get the impression that a lot of these programs feel like they need it to not "be behind" - but I don't think anyone loves this.

The NCAA hasn't been great, but they remain the only, best way to get things under control here. Those that are hoping for the NCAA to get broken and destroyed will almost certainly hate what spawns from its ashes.Nah…the NCAA has already failed. They decided complete abdication of their responsibilities was their best path and here we are. Maybe there was nothing they could have done better or differently, but they will soon be as irrelevant to the Top 50 (or so) Collegiate Athletics programs as The Buggy Whip Manufacturers Association is to Tesla owners.

If there is a ‘problem’ (which FUBeAR thinks there is / will be) with the way this all plays out for those Top 50 (or so) programs, it will be up to the Presidents, Trustees/Regents/etc. to solve it. It won’t be the gub-mint and it won’t be the NCAA and it won’t be those within the Athletics Departments…and it sure as heck won’t be the “boosters” that resolve the issue.

FUBeAR has long been a proponent of the idea that these schools should just become owners/sponsors of affiliated professional teams confederated into a league of like-minded institutions. Players will be paid employees; paid as the market (and their union’s abilities) dictates with education reimbursement at the sponsoring school available as part of their benefits plans. It’s where this is headed. Might as well rip the band-aid off and just do it now.

For schools not invited to or unwilling to join “The League,” maybe they can return to pursuing amateur intercollegiate athletics.

[Daytripper]

Between LFN and FUBeAR, I tend to lean in the direction of the latter. It's going to happen eventually...there is too much money involved. Take the medicine now and those that don't go semi-pro can build something more viable and equitable from scratch while maintaining the student-athlete model. I don't know what that would look like, but it can't be worse than what we deal with now.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Nah…the NCAA has already failed. They decided complete abdication of their responsibilities was their best path and here we are. Maybe there was nothing they could have done better or differently, but they will soon be as irrelevant to the Top 50 (or so) Collegiate Athletics programs as The Buggy Whip Manufacturers Association is to Tesla owners.

If there is a ‘problem’ (which FUBeAR thinks there is / will be) with the way this all plays out for those Top 50 (or so) programs, it will be up to the Presidents, Trustees/Regents/etc. to solve it. It won’t be the gub-mint and it won’t be the NCAA and it won’t be those within the Athletics Departments…and it sure as heck won’t be the “boosters” that resolve the issue.

FUBeAR has long been a proponent of the idea that these schools should just become owners/sponsors of affiliated professional teams confederated into a league of like-minded institutions. Players will be paid employees; paid as the market (and their union’s abilities) dictates with education reimbursement at the sponsoring school available as part of their benefits plans. It’s where this is headed. Might as well rip the band-aid off and just do it now.

For schools not invited to or unwilling to join “The League,” maybe they can return to pursuing amateur intercollegiate athletics.

I almost think we might as well just go in that direction. Allow non-students to play for a school's team, no academic minimums, no eligibility limits. Heck, Tim Tebow would still be the QB at Florida and Gerry McNamara would still be camping out in the corner drilling 3's for the Syracuse basketball team.

In the new world of NIL, you might even see players stay in college longer than they otherwise would because they'll make more $$ there than they would in their rookie NFL contract. Imagine if AJ McCarron were still the QB at Bama now. He'd be making a lot more in endorsements and NIL than he does as a very good backup QB in the NFL (currently on a 1 year, 1.2M deal).

[NY Crusader 2010]

Entertain this scenario for a second. Congress realizes that collectives will destroy college sports if they are allowed to exist as they are today - because they will. But Congress doesn't want to get in the business of micromanaging college sports, either. So what they do is legislate an antitrust exemption (maybe a limited one) for the NCAA to be able to enforce hard limits on NIL collectives - maybe even make them illegal. That way, college football players can still get some of the more admirable aspects of NIL (Spotify money for songs they create, Adsense money on blogs they create, insta money, their own names on books they write, etc.) while destroying the part that is truly destroying college sports by making it basically minor league sports, i.e. the collectives abusing NIL rules to offer contracts.

Something key to remember here is - I don't think the schools themselves are enamored with runaway collectives that they have no control over, but are responsible for. I get the impression that a lot of these programs feel like they need it to not "be behind" - but I don't think anyone loves this.

The NCAA hasn't been great, but they remain the only, best way to get things under control here. Those that are hoping for the NCAA to get broken and destroyed will almost certainly hate what spawns from its ashes.

Absolutely, I think 60% (or more) of those closely connected with collegiate athletics would be totally behind student-athletes being able to do this -- just like guys like Chris Weinke, Dennis Dixon and Kyler Murray in the past were allowed to earn $$ from playing a sport other than the one they played in college (minor league baseball in those cases). The point where the amateur aspect of college sports gets ruined is where boosters create ferkakta "corporations" to use as NIL fund-raising vehicles, which effectively is no different than the boosters just paying the players directly. Most people would be OK with what you described and the majority of the following:

- Allowing student athletes to generate revenue from social media platforms, to include accounts that utilize their image and persona as a student athlete
- Allowing student athletes to earn money by working at or hosting camps, or holding private lessons.
- Legitimate companies, local or national, choosing to employ or pay NIL royalties to student-athletes => this is obviously where it gets gray but in an ideal world I'd be totally fine with this. Problem is, what's to stop an alumni group from approaching a company, offering that company $10 million with the instructions to pay $9 million of those funds in NIL to select athletes from that school, with the corporate middleman taking a $1 million transaction fee?

[DFW HOYA]

Imagine if AJ McCarron were still the QB at Bama now. He'd be making a lot more in endorsements and NIL than he does as a very good backup QB in the NFL (currently on a 1 year, 1.2M deal).

A. J. McCarron is 31 years old.

[Hammerhead]

Absolutely, I think 60% (or more) of those closely connected with collegiate athletics would be totally behind student-athletes being able to do this -- just like guys like Chris Weinke, Dennis Dixon and Kyler Murray in the past were allowed to earn $$ from playing a sport other than the one they played in college (minor league baseball in those cases). The point where the amateur aspect of college sports gets ruined is where boosters create ferkakta "corporations" to use as NIL fund-raising vehicles, which effectively is no different than the boosters just paying the players directly. Most people would be OK with what you described and the majority of the following:

- Allowing student athletes to generate revenue from social media platforms, to include accounts that utilize their image and persona as a student athlete
- Allowing student athletes to earn money by working at or hosting camps, or holding private lessons.
- Legitimate companies, local or national, choosing to employ or pay NIL royalties to student-athletes => this is obviously where it gets gray but in an ideal world I'd be totally fine with this. Problem is, what's to stop an alumni group from approaching a company, offering that company $10 million with the instructions to pay $9 million of those funds in NIL to select athletes from that school, with the corporate middleman taking a $1 million transaction fee?

Or a big-time donor who owns several car dealerships from paying a recruit $100K/yr to be a spokesperson.

[NY Crusader 2010]

A. J. McCarron is 31 years old. Yes, I said imagine a world where there would be no eligibility restrictions. Plausibly a guy like McCarron could have made more $$$ the last ten years as the QB at Alabama than as one of the more highly regarded backup QBs in the NFL.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Or a big-time donor who owns several car dealerships from paying a recruit $100K/yr to be a spokesperson. Yep, "spokesperson". Nijel Pack, a basketball transfer from K State to Miami (FL) received an 800K deal to be a "spokesperson" for an app called Lifewallet that's owned by a an alum. Deals like this aren't legit endorsement deals, these are effectively donations from boosters.

[DFW HOYA]

Yes, I said imagine a world where there would be no eligibility restrictions. Plausibly a guy like McCarron could have made more $$$ the last ten years as the QB at Alabama than as one of the more highly regarded backup QBs in the NFL.

That would be contrary to a college athlete. Holy Cross does not need a 31 year old at QB who is mindlessly taking classes for a degree he already earned.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'd like to point out once again that no school has gone out and said that they love this NIL world we are living in today. I see lots and lots of P5 ADs and commissioners revealing their true nature - that they want the P5 to separate and become their own league, etc. Fact is, NIL is being used as an excuse for administrators to propose their dreams for the sport (most of which involve throwing FCS in the trash and separating it from FBS). But not a single person from a school is saying, "you know what, these NIL collectives throwing millions at our athletes are kind of cool and I want to keep working with them."

You guys do realize that all the latest leaks from the P5 commissioners are an attempt to destroy FCS football, right?

[Daytripper]

I'd like to point out once again that no school has gone out and said that they love this NIL world we are living in today. I see lots and lots of P5 ADs and commissioners revealing their true nature - that they want the P5 to separate and become their own league, etc. Fact is, NIL is being used as an excuse for administrators to propose their dreams for the sport (most of which involve throwing FCS in the trash and separating it from FBS). But not a single person from a school is saying, "you know what, these NIL collectives throwing millions at our athletes are kind of cool and I want to keep working with them."

You guys do realize that all the latest leaks from the P5 commissioners are an attempt to destroy FCS football, right?

I don't think it's an attempt to destroy FCS football. I just think P5 administrators are selfishly looking out for their best interest economically. The FCS will just be collateral damage, just like the G5 and any other schools that can't play with the big boys. That is why I think that the non-P5 schools should see this as an opportunity to start a new system from scratch...whatever that may look like.

[Milktruck74]

Powerlifting had two different Championships back in the day... there was the World Championship and the NATURAL World Championship (for those that weren't using the juice), maybe Colleges need to have different divisions based NIL or Non-NIL. At the end of the day, call it what it is...Professional College Division and College amateur Division. And in reality, why even make the Professional attend classes? or even enroll in school if they don't want to? And why stop there, why not unlimited eligibility?

[Hammerhead]

The P5 don't want really good program to crash the party and demand a spot in the playoffs should they ever expand to more than four teams.


I don't think it's an attempt to destroy FCS football. I just think P5 administrators are selfishly looking out for their best interest economically. The FCS will just be collateral damage, just like the G5 and any other schools that can't play with the big boys. That is why I think that the non-P5 schools should see this as an opportunity to start a new system from scratch...whatever that may look like.

[Daytripper]

The P5 don't want really good program to crash the party and demand a spot in the playoffs should they ever expand to more than four teams.

Exactly. Give them what they want because NIL is going to make it that much harder for for a Non-P5 to crash the party in the future. Just peel the scab and get it over with.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Question for LFN: what exactly is going to transpire that will "destroy" FCS football. Wouldn't the G5-level and lower-level P5 schools have the most to worry about trying to directly compete in this environment with the machines that are Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Oregon, Clemson, Ohio State and Michigan?

[Daytripper]

Question for LFN: what exactly is going to transpire that will "destroy" FCS football. Wouldn't the G5-level and lower-level P5 schools have the most to worry about trying to directly compete in this environment with the machines that are Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Oregon, Clemson, Ohio State and Michigan?

That is my thought, as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Question for LFN: what exactly is going to transpire that will "destroy" FCS football. Wouldn't the G5-level and lower-level P5 schools have the most to worry about trying to directly compete in this environment with the machines that are Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Oregon, Clemson, Ohio State and Michigan?

The P5 is floating the idea that the P5 have their own governance structure and rules separate from the NCAA (and hence FCS). If you have different rules, you can't have inter-subdivision games. Or the new division can just say P5 teams can only play P5 teams. Either way, FCS no longer plays FBS teams, draining a critical type of funding for FCS schools.

Lack of competitiveness could be the most useless and baseless rationale for separation ever. Oh, really, FCS teams can't compete? Ask Florida State, Virginia Tech, Michigan, etc. etc. etc. This uncompetitiveness theory has been constantly disproven across football and basketball and across sports. St. Peter's made the damned Elite Eight this year! Yet that's the rationale being given - some future date, that doesn't exist today, where things are noncompetitive. Unfortunately without a "Division I football" structure under the NCAA, FBS would have the power to separate, create its own arbitrary rulebook, and cripple a good hunk of FCS. HBCU football might disappear overnight.

[Sycamore62]

The P5 is floating the idea that the P5 have their own governance structure and rules separate from the NCAA (and hence FCS). If you have different rules, you can't have inter-subdivision games. Or the new division can just say P5 teams can only play P5 teams. Either way, FCS no longer plays FBS teams, draining a critical type of funding for FCS schools.

Lack of competitiveness could be the most useless and baseless rationale for separation ever. Oh, really, FCS teams can't compete? Ask Florida State, Virginia Tech, Michigan, etc. etc. etc. This uncompetitiveness theory has been constantly disproven across football and basketball and across sports. St. Peter's made the damned Elite Eight this year! Yet that's the rationale being given - some future date, that doesn't exist today, where things are noncompetitive. Unfortunately without a "Division I football" structure under the NCAA, FBS would have the power to separate, create its own arbitrary rulebook, and cripple a good hunk of FCS. HBCU football might disappear overnight.


FCS schools play NAIA schools. dont they have different rules?

[MR. CHICKEN]

.......JES' AGREE TA ONES' RULES..OR...DUH OTHERAH.....LIKE NATIONAL LEAGUE DID FO' A FEW YEARS..........WHIFF DH.......LOTTA THINGS CAN BE WORKED OUT.....DOODLE-DOO!

.......VILLANOVA DIDN'T CARE...PENN STATE HAD MO' SKOLLYS.....AWK!

[Daytripper]

The P5 is floating the idea that the P5 have their own governance structure and rules separate from the NCAA (and hence FCS). If you have different rules, you can't have inter-subdivision games. Or the new division can just say P5 teams can only play P5 teams. Either way, FCS no longer plays FBS teams, draining a critical type of funding for FCS schools.

Lack of competitiveness could be the most useless and baseless rationale for separation ever. Oh, really, FCS teams can't compete? Ask Florida State, Virginia Tech, Michigan, etc. etc. etc. This uncompetitiveness theory has been constantly disproven across football and basketball and across sports. St. Peter's made the damned Elite Eight this year! Yet that's the rationale being given - some future date, that doesn't exist today, where things are noncompetitive. Unfortunately without a "Division I football" structure under the NCAA, FBS would have the power to separate, create its own arbitrary rulebook, and cripple a good hunk of FCS. HBCU football might disappear overnight.

FCS can play G5 FBS schools that don't break off.

Also, this is what I mean about the rest of us having an opportunity to build a new structure from scratch that doesn't require FBS largess for the FCS to survive. This is that opportunity to create an equitable and fair system.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The P5 is floating the idea that the P5 have their own governance structure and rules separate from the NCAA (and hence FCS). If you have different rules, you can't have inter-subdivision games. Or the new division can just say P5 teams can only play P5 teams. Either way, FCS no longer plays FBS teams, draining a critical type of funding for FCS schools.

Lack of competitiveness could be the most useless and baseless rationale for separation ever. Oh, really, FCS teams can't compete? Ask Florida State, Virginia Tech, Michigan, etc. etc. etc. This uncompetitiveness theory has been constantly disproven across football and basketball and across sports. St. Peter's made the damned Elite Eight this year! Yet that's the rationale being given - some future date, that doesn't exist today, where things are noncompetitive. Unfortunately without a "Division I football" structure under the NCAA, FBS would have the power to separate, create its own arbitrary rulebook, and cripple a good hunk of FCS. HBCU football might disappear overnight.

I don't see that happening for one reason. The P5 schools generate a ton of revenue by getting to play 7 or 8 home games every year. They don't play games against FCS teams as acts of charity. Create a system where they only play each other and that goes away. Alabama can play whoever they want -- and yet they host the likes of The Citadel, Western Carolina or Chattanooga every year.

And HBCU football isn't going to disappear...unless the HBCU schools themselves disappear.

[NY Crusader 2010]

FCS schools play NAIA schools. dont they have different rules?

Yes, and so do the random unaccredited Christian colleges that some of the FCS schools down south play on occasion. And a lot of the Southland and SWAC teams will frequently have these schools on their basketball schedules. NCCAA or something....

[Puddin Tane]

Yes, and so do the random unaccredited Christian colleges that some of the FCS schools down south play on occasion. And a lot of the Southland and SWAC teams will frequently have these schools on their basketball schedules. NCCAA or something....

Lamar is guilty of this. And the fans have raised hell. Weve played schools ive never heard of on opening weekend, ( then follow it up with a beatdown from a big 12 team). Last year was North American University??? I think i read they are going up to naia. Weve done weber intl, bacone, langston, texas college but north american was the lowest of lows.

i dont mind a D2 school, seeing how the “big boys” give us a money game beat down.

this year we open with a conference game, followed by smu. So no Team Crapola. Hopefully a thing of the past

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yes, and so do the random unaccredited Christian colleges that some of the FCS schools down south play on occasion. And a lot of the Southland and SWAC teams will frequently have these schools on their basketball schedules. NCCAA or something....

IMO FCS shouldn't play NAIA schools, and in quite a few cases the non-affiliated games don't "count" for NCAA purposes, playoffs, records, etc - because the rules are so different (and in some cases, the students from those schools don't have access to modern training, coaching, etc.). I have zero problem with them playing a limited number of local D-II or D-III schools, keeping in mind if they want to be in the playoffs, they are to be judged on Division I wins, not NAIA/D-II/D-III wins.

Back to the topic at hand - separation. The problem is, when "FBS" separates from the NCAA, implicitly they won't need to follow the same rules as the rest of the NCAA. FBS could institute 10 point field goals, or 20 minute quarters. They claim that academics will be a part of what they do, but, really? What about the NCAA clearinghouse determining eligibility? Does that go away? Does FBS have its own clearinghouse? Do they decide on a lower standard?

Once the athlete eligibility is deemed different, the FBS argument will morph into, "well, FCS and FBS are really different sports. I mean, we have 10 point field goals and our own eligibility rules - can they really be considered the same anymore?" That's when the rule will come up that FBS schools can only play other FBS schools - after all, they can play "eligible" UL-Monroe as well as "ineligible" North Dakota State.

"The FCS can keep their championship," FBS will say in an effort to mollify the critics. However, they don't say that FCS schools have the right to play FBS schools.

It's also easy to say that losing literally millions of dollars keeping athletic departments afloat are an "opportunity to restructure," but the real, practical result of such a move would be to strangle many programs that rely on that money to balance the books. Again, more than half of all HBCUs rely on those checks to fund their programs. The vast majority would need to reclassify or drop their programs.

[atthewbon]

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2022-05-16/nil-college-sports-california-bill-ncaa

This might add an even further wrinkle into the NIL discussion. A proposed California bill will require schools to share 50% of revenue from Football and Men’s/Womens’s basketball with players. However, it seems it would require the athletes to graduate before seeing the majority of the money (can only make $25,000 a year before graduating). The article breaks down how the payments would work but as an example USC football players could make up to $200,000 a year which I guess would be payed out after graduation. It’ll be interesting to see if this passes and then if other states follow suit.

[Professor Chaos]

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2022-05-16/nil-college-sports-california-bill-ncaa

This might add an even further wrinkle into the NIL discussion. A proposed California bill will require schools to share 50% of revenue from Football and Men’s/Womens’s basketball with players. However, it seems it would require the athletes to graduate before seeing the majority of the money (can only make $25,000 a year before graduating). The article breaks down how the payments would work but as an example USC football players could make up to $200,000 a year which I guess would be payed out after graduation. It’ll be interesting to see if this passes and then if other states follow suit.
This would kill non-revenue sports at many places and the scholarship opportunities those sports provide. If that's what they want so be it but I think most people cheering on legislation like this don't realize the consequences.

[NY Crusader 2010]

IMO FCS shouldn't play NAIA schools, and in quite a few cases the non-affiliated games don't "count" for NCAA purposes, playoffs, records, etc - because the rules are so different (and in some cases, the students from those schools don't have access to modern training, coaching, etc.). I have zero problem with them playing a limited number of local D-II or D-III schools, keeping in mind if they want to be in the playoffs, they are to be judged on Division I wins, not NAIA/D-II/D-III wins.

Back to the topic at hand - separation. The problem is, when "FBS" separates from the NCAA, implicitly they won't need to follow the same rules as the rest of the NCAA. FBS could institute 10 point field goals, or 20 minute quarters. They claim that academics will be a part of what they do, but, really? What about the NCAA clearinghouse determining eligibility? Does that go away? Does FBS have its own clearinghouse? Do they decide on a lower standard?

Once the athlete eligibility is deemed different, the FBS argument will morph into, "well, FCS and FBS are really different sports. I mean, we have 10 point field goals and our own eligibility rules - can they really be considered the same anymore?" That's when the rule will come up that FBS schools can only play other FBS schools - after all, they can play "eligible" UL-Monroe as well as "ineligible" North Dakota State.

"The FCS can keep their championship," FBS will say in an effort to mollify the critics. However, they don't say that FCS schools have the right to play FBS schools.

It's also easy to say that losing literally millions of dollars keeping athletic departments afloat are an "opportunity to restructure," but the real, practical result of such a move would be to strangle many programs that rely on that money to balance the books. Again, more than half of all HBCUs rely on those checks to fund their programs. The vast majority would need to reclassify or drop their programs.

Of course whatever division is created isn't going to create ridiculous XFL-like rule changes. Why would they? That's not what any of this is about. It's about doing whatever is needed to share as little as possible financially with smaller schools. And yes, the new top division, could very well scrap or loosen academic and eligibility requirements, if they feel that such changes will enhance their overall product. But that doesn't mean schools in that division can't play G5 or FCS teams anymore. UCONN and Holy Cross have different academic standards and follow different sets of rules when it comes to redshirting -- but we still played each other last year.

Like I said, P5 schools hosting FCS schools only happens now because its a mutually beneficial arrangement for both parties. The big school gets a home game, where they get to sell 60,000 tickets and generate concession revenue from an incremental home game while the smaller school gets a pay check to come take a beat down. It's not like some NCAA scheduling committee is enforcing a rule that every FBS team must host at least one FCS team per year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Of course whatever division is created isn't going to create ridiculous XFL-like rule changes. Why would they? That's not what any of this is about. It's about doing whatever is needed to share as little as possible financially with smaller schools. And yes, the new top division, could very well scrap or loosen academic and eligibility requirements, if they feel that such changes will enhance their overall product. But that doesn't mean schools in that division can't play G5 or FCS teams anymore. UCONN and Holy Cross have different academic standards and follow different sets of rules when it comes to redshirting -- but we still played each other last year.

Like I said, P5 schools hosting FCS schools only happens now because its a mutually beneficial arrangement for both parties. The big school gets a home game, where they get to sell 60,000 tickets and generate concession revenue from an incremental home game while the smaller school gets a pay check to come take a beat down. It's not like some NCAA scheduling committee is enforcing a rule that every FBS team must host at least one FCS team per year.

This is about money, full stop. If FBS thinks 10 point FGs would increase revenue, they could and would do it. If FBS mandates paying players, they could do it. If FBS thinks that football players going to classes would devalue their football product and thus forbid it, they could do it. Without an NCAA or something equivalent, there is nobody watching the henhouse. Though is it popular nowadays to say that the NCAA has issues with enforcement, the truth is, for now, they control those rules that a field is 100 yards, a field goal is 3 points, etc - and it applies to ALL DIVISION I FOOTBALL (FCS and FBS). To be very clear, that is what is being proposed to be done away with - or at least the NCAA's role hasn't been clarified in that matter.

Carry this thought through. Why are FCS games on FBS schedules at all? Because one FCS game is allowed to count for bowl eligibility. Guess what? FBS could repeal that rule tomorrow, removing any incentive for FBS schools to schedule any FCS teams. FBS schools are scheduling FCS games because the rules allow them to do so, not out of the goodness of their hearts. Those wins over FCS schools mean something valuable to them.

[DFW HOYA]

More than a few eyebrows were raised when College of Faith was once able to schedule Division I teams, but it's become all too common with unaccredited, borderline education-based institutions can pickup checks to play games on the road with what are glorified club teams. Yet, North American, Virginia-Lynchburg, Lincoln (CA) and Fort Lauderdale are all over the FCS schedules.

If you don't schedule them, they go away.

[walliver]

The NCAA counts games against NAIA and NCCAA schools. The NCAA doesn't count wins against other schools, but doesn't punish anyone for playing these games.

Most FCS schools will stay where they are. Players may get free pizzas and perks and a few (attractive volleyball players, for example) may make some actual cash (although they probably want make the profits that CCU's cheerleaders made a few years back - https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/details-coastal-carolina-cheerleaders-escort-prostitution/ ).

The NCAA is in free-fall right now, and will give the P5 anything they want to save March Madness. The P5 would do just great with their own championship, but March Madness would evolve into the Gonzaga invitational should the P5 leave. I suspect the most likely football result is that the FBS and FCS labels go away and individual conferences choose their own policies.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The NCAA counts games against NAIA and NCCAA schools. The NCAA doesn't count wins against other schools, but doesn't punish anyone for playing these games.

Most FCS schools will stay where they are. Players may get free pizzas and perks and a few (attractive volleyball players, for example) may make some actual cash (although they probably want make the profits that CCU's cheerleaders made a few years back - https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/details-coastal-carolina-cheerleaders-escort-prostitution/ ).

The NCAA is in free-fall right now, and will give the P5 anything they want to save March Madness. The P5 would do just great with their own championship, but March Madness would evolve into the Gonzaga invitational should the P5 leave. I suspect the most likely football result is that the FBS and FCS labels go away and individual conferences choose their own policies.

The CCU scheme with that slimy sugar daddy enabler and NIL as it is currently implemented seem quite related to me.

[wapiti]

IMO FCS shouldn't play NAIA schools, and in quite a few cases the non-affiliated games don't "count" for NCAA purposes, playoffs, records, etc - because the rules are so different (and in some cases, the students from those schools don't have access to modern training, coaching, etc.). I have zero problem with them playing a limited number of local D-II or D-III schools, keeping in mind if they want to be in the playoffs, they are to be judged on Division I wins, not NAIA/D-II/D-III wins.

Back to the topic at hand - separation. The problem is, when "FBS" separates from the NCAA, implicitly they won't need to follow the same rules as the rest of the NCAA. FBS could institute 10 point field goals, or 20 minute quarters. They claim that academics will be a part of what they do, but, really? What about the NCAA clearinghouse determining eligibility? Does that go away? Does FBS have its own clearinghouse? Do they decide on a lower standard?

Once the athlete eligibility is deemed different, the FBS argument will morph into, "well, FCS and FBS are really different sports. I mean, we have 10 point field goals and our own eligibility rules - can they really be considered the same anymore?" That's when the rule will come up that FBS schools can only play other FBS schools - after all, they can play "eligible" UL-Monroe as well as "ineligible" North Dakota State.

"The FCS can keep their championship," FBS will say in an effort to mollify the critics. However, they don't say that FCS schools have the right to play FBS schools.

It's also easy to say that losing literally millions of dollars keeping athletic departments afloat are an "opportunity to restructure," but the real, practical result of such a move would be to strangle many programs that rely on that money to balance the books. Again, more than half of all HBCUs rely on those checks to fund their programs. The vast majority would need to reclassify or drop their programs.

Div 3 < NAIA < Div 2 < Div1

When it comes to quality football on the field, NAIA is better than Div 3. In my inexact opinion, the top of NAIA could play with the top of Div 2, its the middle and lower teams of each division where NAIA loses more quality.

I would think Div 3 and NAIA should both be off limits and once in a while play a regional Div 2 team

[bonarae]

Back to the topic...

NIL enters a new frontier. A UTM QB landed a NIL deal from a local political candidate xeekx

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-qb-lands-first-known-political-nil-deal-endorses-local-district-attorney-candidate/

[FUBeAR]

Back to the topic...

NIL enters a new frontier. A UTM QB landed a NIL deal from a local political candidate xeekx

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-qb-lands-first-known-political-nil-deal-endorses-local-district-attorney-candidate/
Don’t know…just wondering if that is kosher with campaign finance laws?

Can/Do, like, Presidential Candidates use campaign funds to BUY, like, Kim Kardashian’s “endorsement?”

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Back to the topic...

NIL enters a new frontier. A UTM QB landed a NIL deal from a local political candidate xeekx

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-qb-lands-first-known-political-nil-deal-endorses-local-district-attorney-candidate/

I was talking to someone last night about this. This can of worms this opens up of fascinating....

- It's one thing for a college athlete to support/say they're voting for a political candidate. It's another thing to openly endorse someone through financial or some other tangible compensation. Now the QB (and team) is far more likely to be asked, scrutinized for anything this particular politician stands for/says.
- If I am an opposing candidate I am going after another prominent player on the team to create a rivalry/division on the team. If that doesn't work, then I will pay for a rival team's player as a way to market the "us vs them" angle.
- If a politician has enough power/resources they can create teams that lean heavily one way or another politically. The Texas Longhorns sponsored by the Republican Party is quite possible now.

[ElCid]

Of course whatever division is created isn't going to create ridiculous XFL-like rule changes. Why would they? That's not what any of this is about. It's about doing whatever is needed to share as little as possible financially with smaller schools. And yes, the new top division, could very well scrap or loosen academic and eligibility requirements, if they feel that such changes will enhance their overall product. But that doesn't mean schools in that division can't play G5 or FCS teams anymore. UCONN and Holy Cross have different academic standards and follow different sets of rules when it comes to redshirting -- but we still played each other last year.

Like I said, P5 schools hosting FCS schools only happens now because its a mutually beneficial arrangement for both parties. The big school gets a home game, where they get to sell 60,000 tickets and generate concession revenue from an incremental home game while the smaller school gets a pay check to come take a beat down. It's not like some NCAA scheduling committee is enforcing a rule that every FBS team must host at least one FCS team per year.

This is very true. And believe it or not, some FBS schools have history with FCS schools. I think Clemson is still like in our top ten opponents for number of games played. USC is pretty high as well. In-state FBS games, like when we play the Tigers and Cocks, generates local interest. Sure, they obviously have much bigger games, but it is a little different than when we play an FBS P5 out of state. Then we are just some Div II team from somewhere, LOL. And a huge number of families in SC are mixed families...they have family that went to Clemson, USC, The Citadel, SC St, Furman, Wofford, etc. But this obviously isn't why we or other local FCS schools end up on Clemson's schedule occasionally. They want to sell tickets, have a full stadium, and get a win counter for a Bowl game. But it is a win win for everyone involved.

I'm sure this applies to others as well like N Iowa and Iowa St. I know Colgate and Syracuse have history. My dad still talks about going to those games. I know there are many others. I realize this is ancient history to some, but I believe it still has some influence. It can help fill up stadiums by playing familiar, historical, and nearby opponents.

And one other issue to be considered is the part that state legislatures play. I'm not sure about other states, but I'm fairly certain I heard that the SC state government "encourages" Clemson and USC to play in state public schools for obvious reasons. The power of the purse can be very persuasive.

[walliver]

Don’t know…just wondering if that is kosher with campaign finance laws?

Can/Do, like, Presidential Candidates use campaign funds to BUY, like, Kim Kardashian’s “endorsement?”

Most likely, politicians would pay Kim Kardashian to endorse their opponents.

Paid political endorsements by athletes are many AD's worst nightmares. Will fans begin booing and heckling their own players. Will wealthy donors be offended and stop giving money?

[POD Knows]

Most likely, politicians would pay Kim Kardashian to endorse their opponents.

Paid political endorsements by athletes are many AD's worst nightmares. Will fans begin booing and heckling their own players. Will wealthy donors be offended and stop giving money?
Yes. They will.

[ElCid]

More than a few eyebrows were raised when College of Faith was once able to schedule Division I teams, but it's become all too common with unaccredited, borderline education-based institutions can pickup checks to play games on the road with what are glorified club teams. Yet, North American, Virginia-Lynchburg, Lincoln (CA) and Fort Lauderdale are all over the FCS schedules.

If you don't schedule them, they go away.

I know we used to play quite a few club teams...back in the 00s, 10s, and 20s...the 1900s, 1910s, and 1920s that is. I know a lot of schools did when searching to fill a schedule that didn't involve huge travel. We used to play a lot of military teams as well (Charleston Navy shipyard, Paris Island). I was poking around Massey, and in 1914 South Carolina played a "club" team call the "Machinist Mates." They did beat them 30-7. Not new, I think it is just a cycle.

[ElCid]

Most likely, politicians would pay Kim Kardashian to endorse their opponents.

Paid political endorsements by athletes are many AD's worst nightmares. Will fans begin booing and heckling their own players. Will wealthy donors be offended and stop giving money?

OMG. This is forbidden territory. I think a coach or school would have the power to restrict this. It will destroy fan bases. That affects bottom lines.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why on Earth would a candidate waste valuable funds to spend on any amount of NIL money for a student? Not only that, it's a violation of the FEC.

https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/making-disbursements/personal-use/

Using campaign funds for personal use is prohibited.


Commission regulations provide a test, called the "irrespective test," to differentiate legitimate campaign and officeholder expenses from personal expenses. Under the "irrespective test," personal use is any use of funds in a campaign account of a candidate (or former candidate) to fulfill a commitment, obligation or expense of any person that would exist irrespective of the candidate’s campaign or responsibilities as a federal officeholder.


More simply, if the expense would exist even in the absence of the candidacy or even if the officeholder were not in office, then the personal use ban applies.

Conversely, any expense that results from campaign or officeholder activity falls outside the personal use ban.




Example: A candidate may not make tuition payments with campaign funds, unless the costs are associated with training campaign staff.

[FUBeAR]

Most likely, politicians would pay Kim Kardashian to endorse their opponents.

Paid political endorsements by athletes are many AD's worst nightmares. Will fans begin booing and heckling their own players. Will wealthy donors be offended and stop giving money?
And….there is an even bigger problem here.

How are we gonna discuss Politics-based NIL deals outside of the Political Board without incurring the wrath of a big, mean bear?

[Yote 53]

Great thread. One thing that needs pointed out is that all this NIL stuff is going to kill the golden goose. I'm a huge CFB fan, obviously, I'm on this board after all. I was just thinking yesterday how this fall I'll go to the USD games, tailgate, and have a good time, but on road weekends I think I'll spend my Saturdays golfing. I'm just not excited for this upcoming CFB season at all, and I'm someone who will watch every single game from Gameday to Hawaii at 2 AM and my favorite TV show this fall was the Dr. Pepper Fansville series.

It's being turned into professional football and I can watch the best professional football on Sundays. Just not interested in watching college kids get paid all this money. Frankly, I didn't, and I resent the hell that these kids are getting paid. If I feel that way being decades removed from the locker room how do you think the current backup left guard feels about the WR getting a seven figure deal while he gets chump change to nothing? These are college kids, not pros, they can't handle that type of locker room dynamic. I can see all hell breaking loose in many locker rooms. The first time one of these high dollar NIL guys loafs on a play, doesn't run out a sprint, skips a workout, etc. there is going to be animosity and hell to pay.

I'm to the point where I'm almost done with "big time" college sports.

[FUBeAR]

Why on Earth would a candidate waste valuable funds to spend on any amount of NIL money for a student? Not only that, it's a violation of the FEC.

https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/making-disbursements/personal-use/

Using campaign funds for personal use is prohibited.


Commission regulations provide a test, called the "irrespective test," to differentiate legitimate campaign and officeholder expenses from personal expenses. Under the "irrespective test," personal use is any use of funds in a campaign account of a candidate (or former candidate) to fulfill a commitment, obligation or expense of any person that would exist irrespective of the candidate’s campaign or responsibilities as a federal officeholder.


More simply, if the expense would exist even in the absence of the candidacy or even if the officeholder were not in office, then the personal use ban applies.

Conversely, any expense that results from campaign or officeholder activity falls outside the personal use ban.




Example: A candidate may not make tuition payments with campaign funds, unless the costs are associated with training campaign staff.
Here’s an interesting article from a couple of years ago about paid political endorsers/endorsements…says it’s all legal

https://www.ocregister.com/2020/02/06/did-that-celebrity-really-endorse-that-candidate-the-video-cant-be-trusted/

…and an academic publication that says, basically, Oprah was worth 1 million votes for Obama

https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/garthwaite/htm/celebrityendorsements_garthwaitemoore.pdf

Reckon how many votes a paid Bryce Young endorsement would be worth for an Alabama gubernatorial candidate?

Reckon could a paid Stetson Bennett endorsement get Herschel Walker over the goal line against Warnock in the Georgia senatorial race?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Here’s an interesting article from a couple of years ago about paid political endorsers/endorsements…says it’s all legal

https://www.ocregister.com/2020/02/06/did-that-celebrity-really-endorse-that-candidate-the-video-cant-be-trusted/

…and an academic publication that says, basically, Oprah was worth 1 million votes for Obama

https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/garthwaite/htm/celebrityendorsements_garthwaitemoore.pdf

Reckon how many votes a paid Bryce Young endorsement would be worth for an Alabama gubernatorial candidate?

Reckon could a paid Stetson Bennett endorsement get Herschel Walker over the goal line against Warnock in the Georgia senatorial race?

I don't believe this is the same thing because the UT Martin player is at UT Martin to attend school, and the candidate is spending money to use his NIL to push his campaign. In any event this is 100% going to go to court at some point. Because isn't the NIL an educational benefit? As I've said many times, the only winners in NIL are unethical sports agents and lawyers.

[taper]

I'm not a lawyer, but from a plain English reading of various laws I don't know how you can prevent a person endorsing a political candidate. I think they have to disclose if they're being paid, but in concept is there any difference between a college football player being paid to make a tv commercial and paying a campaign manager? As long as they're truthful the 1st Amendment should cover all of this. The school can probably prevent the player from appearing in uniform, but for high profile athletes everyone's going to know who they are anyway.

[ST_Lawson]

And….there is an even bigger problem here.

How are we gonna discuss Politics-based NIL deals outside of the Political Board without incurring the wrath of a big, mean bear?

I think if we keep it non-partisan and football-related, then it's probably going to be allowed.
If it gets into "this is bad because democrats..." or "this is bad because republicans...", then that's when Ursus gets growly.

I personally haven't gone to look up what political party this guy is in who paid the UT-Martin player to endorse him, and honestly I don't care. I think this is a very bad precedent regardless of your political leanings and like others have said, has the potential to really tear apart a team, fanbase, the team's donors, etc. Even if it is technically legal currently, I wonder if the NCAA (or maybe conferences) will lay down the law and issue a blanket ban on paid political endorsements by student athletes. I don't know where it falls legally, but I know there are certain types of advertisements that aren't allowed on TV (like most tobacco products), so I wonder if this would be "adjacent" to that type of thing. The problem is that a player can endorse a candidate, like on their twitter account, and that should be covered under the first amendment...however, if that player is paid for the endorsement, then it falls under NIL...and how do you monitor that (or are we back to the whole "bag men" situation, dropping off money in private locations)?

[atthewbon]

Great thread. One thing that needs pointed out is that all this NIL stuff is going to kill the golden goose. I'm a huge CFB fan, obviously, I'm on this board after all. I was just thinking yesterday how this fall I'll go to the USD games, tailgate, and have a good time, but on road weekends I think I'll spend my Saturdays golfing. I'm just not excited for this upcoming CFB season at all, and I'm someone who will watch every single game from Gameday to Hawaii at 2 AM and my favorite TV show this fall was the Dr. Pepper Fansville series.

It's being turned into professional football and I can watch the best professional football on Sundays. Just not interested in watching college kids get paid all this money. Frankly, I didn't, and I resent the hell that these kids are getting paid. If I feel that way being decades removed from the locker room how do you think the current backup left guard feels about the WR getting a seven figure deal while he gets chump change to nothing? These are college kids, not pros, they can't handle that type of locker room dynamic. I can see all hell breaking loose in many locker rooms. The first time one of these high dollar NIL guys loafs on a play, doesn't run out a sprint, skips a workout, etc. there is going to be animosity and hell to pay.

I'm to the point where I'm almost done with "big time" college sports.

Interestingly the majority of the proposals that involve schools or conferences directly paying athletes a portion of TV money (in some form of revenue sharing model) involve all players on each team making the same amount. Obviously the big guys will still make more from commercials, merch & jersey sales and other things like that.

Some of the proposals are very interesting and have some goals I like. For the record I’m definitely for NIL but on the fence with paying players directly. Some of the proposals for the later involve payments increasing per year at the school to disincentivize transferring. Others will tie a significant portion of the payments to graduation.