FU has third highest graduation rate

[Death Dealer]

http://furmanpaladins.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/100407aaa.html
xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xnodx xthumbsupx

[TigerFan17]

Good stuff. Checked out your website and realized that you have a flanker that went to my old high school, CMW.

http://furmanpaladins.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/canington_lance00.html

Sounds like he'll help keep that academic rep up! xnodx

[AggieFinn]

xthumbsupx Now this a stat worth applauding.

Can't wait for UC Davis to get in on this list. :)

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

I'd like to see that complete list.

[Kelly Green]

I'd like to see that complete list.

2007 NCAA Division I Graduation Success Rate (GSR) Data (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLN4g3NPUGSYGYxqb6kW hCjhgihqYeCDFfj_zcVH1v_QD9gtzQ0IhyR0UAA4M5xQ!!/delta/base64xml/L3dJdyEvUUd3QndNQSEvNElVRS82XzBfTFU!?CONTENT_URL=h ttp://www2.ncaa.org/portal/academics_and_athletes/education_and_research/academic_reform/gsr/2007/d1_school_gsr_data.html)

[JohnStOnge]

Nothing against Furman, but I really wonder about the idea that "higher graduation rate" means "better academics."

Seriously, that's how it works with ratings of college and univeristy rankings too. But why?

If one university has a 100% graduation rate and another has a 50% graduation rate, why does that mean the education at the first is "better?"

Could it not mean, "easier?"

I mean it. I really, really wonder about this idea that higher graduation rate is "better."

[BlueHen86]

Nothing against Furman, but I really wonder about the idea that "higher graduation rate" means "better academics."

Seriously, that's how it works with ratings of college and univeristy rankings too. But why?

If one university has a 100% graduation rate and another has a 50% graduation rate, why does that mean the education at the first is "better?"

Could it not mean, "easier?"

I mean it. I really, really wonder about this idea that higher graduation rate is "better."
You are such a "Debbie Downer"xlolx

[appfan2008]

sounds about right with furman

[Eyes of Old Main]

Congrats to Furman on this great achievement by their student-athletes and administration. xthumbsupx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Maybe the schools that have better academic reputations usually create more programs to help athletes wipe their a^ses? I notice that Villanova, Delaware, and Wofford have especially high GSR rates.

[OL FU]

Nothing against Furman, but I really wonder about the idea that "higher graduation rate" means "better academics."

Seriously, that's how it works with ratings of college and univeristy rankings too. But why?

If one university has a 100% graduation rate and another has a 50% graduation rate, why does that mean the education at the first is "better?"

Could it not mean, "easier?"

I mean it. I really, really wonder about this idea that higher graduation rate is "better."

Yep Furman is one of the easiest schools in the countryxrolleyesx

To be honest I think it has more to do with recrutiing players who can succeed academically and then caring if they do as opposed to some schools that just don't give a rat as long as you can play football.

[OL FU]

Maybe the schools that have better academic reputations usually create more programs to help athletes wipe their a^ses? I notice that Villanova, Delaware, and Wofford have especially high GSR rates.

So you think it is wrong to help your athletes to succeed academically. xeyebrowx Oh yeah you are a GSU you fanxrolleyesx Shut up, put those books down and just play footballxrolleyesx

[UNHFan99]

My understanding of graduation rates is that it literally means if the players graduate from your school. If a player transfers and graduates from an Ivy school they count as much as a dropout. That being said high graduation rates say alot about your school because kids are staying there even if they quit football. Its not just senior players that count into it. Its also senior ex players. This is just my understanding. Not totally sure though.

[tribe_pride]

My understanding of graduation rates is that it literally means if the players graduate from your school. If a player transfers and graduates from an Ivy school they count as much as a dropout. That being said high graduation rates say alot about your school because kids are staying there even if they quit football. Its not just senior players that count into it. Its also senior ex players. This is just my understanding. Not totally sure though.

UNH - If I am right that was the old way of counting. The GSR was instituted to account for transfers who graduate from a different school I believe.

[ChickenMan]

CAA grad rates...

W&M.. 96
Northeastern.. 94
Richmond.. 93
Villanova 91
UNH.. 85
Towson .. 84
Delaware.. 83
URI.. 69
UMass.. 66
JMU.. 65
Maine.. 58
Hofstra.. 58

[flyenhigh]

PFL GSR #'s-

1. Davidson - 99%

2. Dayton - 94%

3. Valparaiso - 90%

4. Butler - 85%

5. San Diego - 82%

6. Drake - 74%

7. Jacksonville - 47%

8. Morehead State - 36%


Patriot Leagues GSR-

Bucknell 91%
Colgate 90%
Fordham 82%
Georgetown 97%
Holy Cross 94%
Lafayette 93%
Lehigh 91%


Last years final GSR in all of Div. 1-

UD's 96 scores in the latest GSR (Graduation Success Rate) is the fifth-best in NCAA Division I football. Fellow PFL member Davidson was atop the rankings with 100, followed by Navy and William & Mary (98), and Furman (97). Boston College and UD were next at 96. Other schools with APR's above 90 were Bucknell (95), Stanford (94), Air Force, Duke and Villanova (93

[OL FU]

SoCon

Furman - 97
The Citadel 93
Wofford 90
Western Carolina 81

ASU 69
Elon 67 WTFxconfusedx
GSU 61
Chattanooga 48xnonono2x

[Death Dealer]

Yep Furman is one of the easiest schools in the countryxrolleyesx

To be honest I think it has more to do with recrutiing players who can succeed academically and then caring if they do as opposed to some schools that just don't give a rat as long as you can play football.
Really!xrolleyesx Please put down the crack pipe JSO!xsmiley_wix

Furman is known for demanding high academic standards from their athletes. I was a trainer during my time at FU, and lived with a bunch of FB players. I can tell you, there are no dummies on the FU squad. They have to meet the same acceptance standards as every other student, and I can tell you from personal experience, some professors were actually a little tougher on the players than other students. If it weren't for a particular D-lineman who I studied with I'd have never gotten out of Physics! xlolx Why would you make intro to physics for non-majors calculus based? xsmhx Why!?!xbawlingx xoopsx

[gophoenix]

SoCon

Furman - 97
The Citadel 93
Wofford 90
Western Carolina 81

ASU 69
Elon 67 WTFxconfusedx
GSU 61
Chattanooga 48xnonono2x

You're counting Furman's GSR with Elon's FR. The FR doesn't count transfers who graduate from other schools. Only counts those who entered school and graduated from that school. The numbers listed for Elon don't count the 14 kids who transferred out last year and the 20 or so that have transferred out before that.

It isn't Apples to Apples when using the FR for Elon against the GSR for Furman.

[OL FU]

You're counting Furman's GSR with Elon's FR. The FR doesn't count transfers who graduate from other schools. Only counts those who entered school and graduated from that school. The numbers listed for Elon don't count the 14 kids who transferred out last year and the 20 or so that have transferred out before that.

It isn't Apples to Apples when using the FR for Elon against the GSR for Furman.


I wasn't counting anything really I was just listing the numbers. And was surprised to see Elon where it was listed. So thanks for the info.

So how to get the FR list, whatever that isxsmiley_wix

[lizrdgizrd]

You're counting Furman's GSR with Elon's FR. The FR doesn't count transfers who graduate from other schools. Only counts those who entered school and graduated from that school. The numbers listed for Elon don't count the 14 kids who transferred out last year and the 20 or so that have transferred out before that.

It isn't Apples to Apples when using the FR for Elon against the GSR for Furman.


I wasn't counting anything really I was just listing the numbers. And was surprised to see Elon where it was listed. So thanks for the info.

So how to get the FR list, whatever that isxsmiley_wix

Furman's FR is 83. It's on that same document at the NCAA site.

[blueballs]

I hate with a burning passion akin to trying to pee with the clap defending Furman, but in this case I will.

Furman is a tough school academically and they lose players every year who graduate early and don't exhaust the athletic eligibility due to their ability to get good jobs immediately with their degrees. If you look at the average age of their players they are usually younger than most FCS schools.

[OL FU]

I hate with a burning passion akin to trying to pee with the clap defending Furman, but in this case I will.

Furman is a tough school academically and they lose players every year who graduate early and don't exhaust the athletic eligibility due to their ability to get good jobs immediately with their degrees. If you look at the average age of their players they are usually younger than most FCS schools.

xthumbsupx xbowx

[turfdoc]

Just to use one of my favorite quotes that I use to defend academic rigor against the rating of educational quality with graduation rates.

"When almost everyone graduates, almost anyone graduates" and no screening process is good enough to eliminate all the bad apples.

[OL FU]

Just to use one of my favorite quotes that I use to defend academic rigor against the rating of educational quality with graduation rates.

"When almost everyone graduates, almost anyone graduates" and no screening process is good enough to eliminate all the bad apples.

One of those wonderful conclusions drawn from faulty logic. My guess is that the graduation rate at Furman for the general student population is about 50 to 60%. At least in my day it was. However, if you are going to invest $40,000 per year in an athlete, why waste the money?

My guess is when discussing athletic scholarships a more likely answer for low graduation rates would be a school that accepts someone simply because they can play football and has little or no concern as to whether they graduate.

PS what school are you from?

[OL FU]

You're counting Furman's GSR with Elon's FR. The FR doesn't count transfers who graduate from other schools. Only counts those who entered school and graduated from that school. The numbers listed for Elon don't count the 14 kids who transferred out last year and the 20 or so that have transferred out before that.

It isn't Apples to Apples when using the FR for Elon against the GSR for Furman.


Do I understand? The GSR presents athletes that enter a school and graduate somewhere? The FR present athletes that enter a school and graduate from the same school? Is that correct?

[WMTribe90]

Congrats to FU and all the other schools that are committed to the principle of educating and graduating student athletes. Shame on those that would try to drag down those schools that our successful in their stated mission in an attempt to justify their school's shortcoming in that same regard. Sadly, claims like the one JSO made, are too common. It isn't luck or easy academics that have the same schools routinely graduating its players. Its the result of careful recruitng that ensures players with the ability and desire to succeed in a difficult academic environment are recruited and then giving them all the support, and quite frankly "tough love", they need to succeed after they arrive on campus.

Another note, this isn't academic elitism, I offer congrats to any program that is at least graduating players at the same rate as the student body at large. I think that is the benchmark of success. You don't to be Harvard or Yale to educate and graduate student athletes. There really is no legit excuse for failing to graduate players at least at the same rate as the student body. Programs that recruit players not equipped out of HS to handle rigorous academics or don't provide adequate academic support after thay arrive on campus are doing a huge dis-service to these young kids.

Yes, I'm all for giving kids a chance to succeed, but it has to be a reasonable fit between the student and the school. Too often admissions decisions are based soley on athletic prowess alone.

Sorry for the rant, but this issue is at the heart of COLLEGE athletics and whether or not DI football will srurvive as an amateur sport of integrity.

[OL FU]

Congrats to FU and all the other schools that are committed to the principle of educating and graduating student athletes. Shame on those that would try to drag down those schools that our successful in their stated mission in an attempt to justify their school's shortcoming in that same regard. Sadly, claims like the one JSO made, are too common. It isn't luck or easy academics that have the same schools routinely graduating its players. Its the result of carful recruitng that ensures players with the ability and desire to succeed in a difficult academic environment are recruited and then giving them all the support, and quite frankly "tough love", they need to succeed after they arrive on campus.

Another note, this isn't academic elitism, I offer congrats to any program that is at least graduating players at the same rate as the student body at large. I think that is the benchmark of success. You don't to Harvard or Yale to educate and graduate student athletes. There really is no legit excuse for failing to graduate players at least at the same rate as the student body. Programs that recruit players not equipped out of HS to handle rigorous academics or don't provide adequate academic support after thay arrive on campus are doing a huge dis-service to these young kids.

Yes, I'm all for giving kids a chance to succeed, but it has to be a reasonable fit between the student and the school. Too often admissions decisions are based soley on athletic prowess alone.

Sorry for the rant, but this issue is at the heart of COLLEGE athletics and whether or not DI football will srurvive as an amateur sport of integrity.


xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx You said this much better than I could have.

I suppose that is why I have responded so often in the thread.

I rarely ever discuss academics on a football issue. I know there are Furman people that are quick to point out, you may beat us in football but you can't beat us in SATs. Not me. Furman is in a diverse conference with schools that have different goals. In football we compete on the field not in the class room. However, don't try to degrade our classroom achievements. We are not an FBS football factory. In fact, in FCS what is the purpose of football other than to have a successful program that educates young adults. xnodx If you don't have the second part of the previous statement you should take a hard look at your athletic programxnodx

[OL FU]

You're counting Furman's GSR with Elon's FR. The FR doesn't count transfers who graduate from other schools. Only counts those who entered school and graduated from that school. The numbers listed for Elon don't count the 14 kids who transferred out last year and the 20 or so that have transferred out before that.

It isn't Apples to Apples when using the FR for Elon against the GSR for Furman.


For whatever reason, the GSR was not reported for Elon (all the other schools had the GSR reported) that is why the numbers did not match. Sorry. xsmiley_wix

[WMTribe90]

You said this much better than I could have.

I suppose that is why I have responded so often in the thread.

I rarely ever discuss academics on a football issue. I know there are Furman people that are quick to point out, you may beat us in football but you can't beat us in SATs. Not me. Furman is in a diverse conference with schools that have different goals. In football we compete on the field not in the class room. However, don't try to degrade our classroom achievemnts. We are not an FBS football factory. In fact, in FCS what is the purpose of football other than to have a successful program that educates young adults. If you don't have the second part of the previous statement you should take a hard look at your athletic program

I don't know, I think you said it pretty well right there. I try not to harp on academics either because it doesn't matter between the lines and I have never used academics as an excuse for losing a football game. However, some opponents get fired up at the mere mentioning of academcis as if it has no place in COLLEGE football. I will make no secret that I take as much pride in WM's academic successes as I do any football victory.

[gophoenix]

Do I understand? The GSR presents athletes that enter a school and graduate somewhere? The FR present athletes that enter a school and graduate from the same school? Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct. GSR takes more to track than FR does.

Not sure why GSR wasn't reported for Elon though.

[Go...gate]

Congrats to FU and all the other schools that are committed to the principle of educating and graduating student athletes. Shame on those that would try to drag down those schools that our successful in their stated mission in an attempt to justify their school's shortcoming in that same regard. Sadly, claims like the one JSO made, are too common. It isn't luck or easy academics that have the same schools routinely graduating its players. Its the result of careful recruitng that ensures players with the ability and desire to succeed in a difficult academic environment are recruited and then giving them all the support, and quite frankly "tough love", they need to succeed after they arrive on campus.

Another note, this isn't academic elitism, I offer congrats to any program that is at least graduating players at the same rate as the student body at large. I think that is the benchmark of success. You don't to be Harvard or Yale to educate and graduate student athletes. There really is no legit excuse for failing to graduate players at least at the same rate as the student body. Programs that recruit players not equipped out of HS to handle rigorous academics or don't provide adequate academic support after thay arrive on campus are doing a huge dis-service to these young kids.

Yes, I'm all for giving kids a chance to succeed, but it has to be a reasonable fit between the student and the school. Too often admissions decisions are based soley on athletic prowess alone.

Sorry for the rant, but this issue is at the heart of COLLEGE athletics and whether or not DI football will srurvive as an amateur sport of integrity.

Wonderful post. xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

[walliver]

Maybe the schools that have better academic reputations usually create more programs to help athletes wipe their a^ses? I notice that Villanova, Delaware, and Wofford have especially high GSR rates.


Actually, the ability to wipe own's one a^s is a prerequisite for admission.

I suspect the real difference is that some schools encourage athletes to work toward graduation, while others just want students to work toward maintaining eligibility (and some coaches don't even get that involved).

[FurmanPaladins4138]

Nothing against Furman, but I really wonder about the idea that "higher graduation rate" means "better academics."

Seriously, that's how it works with ratings of college and univeristy rankings too. But why?

If one university has a 100% graduation rate and another has a 50% graduation rate, why does that mean the education at the first is "better?"

Could it not mean, "easier?"

I mean it. I really, really wonder about this idea that higher graduation rate is "better."

You obviously have never been to Furman. The school has one of the best and most rigorous liberal arts programs in the country.

Please, please keep your conjectures to yourself until you actually know what you're talking about.

Thank you.

[lucchesicourt]

Before people try to say some universities are easy and that's why they have high graduation rates, I would say try looking at the admission requirements. If you have HIGH admission requirements it is obvious a university is recruiting very good students who have a great desire to succeed. I have not looked at Furman's requirements for admission, but I am sure they are higher than many FCS schools. I say, congrats to Furman. I have been against atletic schollies, but they do give an opportunity to those that cannot afford school otherwise. The reason I have been against them is some schools may be inclined to admit someone only because they are good at a sport and not because they really have any chance at graduating. Only students with the desire and dedication to work towards graduation should be offered athletic schollies, and I believe that is EXACTLY what Furman is doing.

[Go...gate]

Actually, the ability to wipe own's one a^s is a prerequisite for admission.

I suspect the real difference is that some schools encourage athletes to work toward graduation, while others just want students to work toward maintaining eligibility (and some coaches don't even get that involved).

Even though they have broken Colgate's hearts for years, It is well established that UD is a very good school academically. The reputations of Villanova and Wofford are similarly outstanding.

[Go...gate]

Before people try to say some universities are easy and that's why they have high graduation rates, I would say try looking at the admission requirements. If you have HIGH admission requirements it is obvious a university is recruiting very good students who have a great desire to succeed. I have not looked at Furman's requirements for admission, but I am sure they are higher than many FCS schools. I say, congrats to Furman. I have been against atletic schollies, but they do give an opportunity to those that cannot afford school otherwise. The reason I have been against them is some schools may be inclined to admit someone only because they are good at a sport and not because they really have any chance at graduating. Only students with the desire and dedication to work towards graduation should be offered athletic schollies, and I believe that is EXACTLY what Furman is doing.

Could not agree with you more, and this is why I have been anti-scholarship for the Patriot League until recently, when it became clear that the league seeks to work toward a model like the one you have stated, along with an Academic Index.

[Go...gate]

You obviously have never been to Furman. The school has one of the best and most rigorous liberal arts programs in the country.
Please, please keep your conjectures to yourself until you actually know what you're talking about.

Thank you.

Damn well told. It always has had an outstanding reputation.

[lucchesicourt]

Go Gate, UCD was non schollie for a long time, until going D1 or FCS, and we put a quality team on thefield without schollies. Now that we offer schollies we have not lowered the standards requireed to enter the school. The high requirements will be required for all students regardless of athletics. The athletic schollie just allows you to compete with all the other schollie schools for quality players. There is no need to lower standards.

[youwouldno]

Furman is a very tough school academically, myself being a recent grad. It is definitely impressive such a high % of athletes graduate. There are no easy majors, and only a handful of relatively easy classes. I think that's why grad school are generally favorable towards applicants from Furman.