Big Sky Conference/Southland Conference...last 17 years have been pretty dang good

[GrizDen]

The catalyst of this thread stemmed from me reading an all too often comment on AGS that states something to the effect that the "Big Sky is weak." As the two most recent examples of this were shared by fans from the Southland Conference I figured I would do a little research to see if this truly can be said when comparing the two conferences.

I've researched head-to-head results in the playoffs dating back to 1980 as well as the regular season dating back to 1997. It's apparent that both conferences have had their share of success and heartache in the playoffs. There will be some missing information regarding regular season games as I don't have or couldn't find all of it. If Montana State, Eastern Washington and Portland State would model their websites after the likes of Texas State or Northern Arizona, the regular season information would be easier to find and thus even more complete. A simple inclusion of the most recent media guide would be wonderful. With that said, I think the information that I was able to find represents a fairly holistic view of these two great conferences. I'm hoping that those of you who know the information I missed or should have included will add to this thread to help out. I'll try to keep it updated as best I can with any new information.

Out of partial curiosity and partial pre-emptive strike, I've also included insight that asks "is there a major difference if you take out the records of the premier team in each conference from a sustained winning tradition standpoint?" In this example, I took the liberty of selecting Montana and McNeese State.

My goal was and is to present this information in an impartial way with the hope that folks will review this with fresh set of eyes. If there was any goal or should I say hope when I decided to do this research, it was to help educate us all on how even the Big Sky Conference and Southland are. And in a small way, maybe the "such and such conference is weak or overrated" comments will start to decrease and not just be added to posts without backing it up with some form or merit. Remember we're all here to celebrate our passion and appreciation for FCS football. :)

I will say this, although I don't intend on ever doing this much research again for a post xreadx xcoffeex xrotatehx ...I did enjoy the process and found it pretty interesting. Here are some quick thoughts that made my eyebrows arch:

- This year’s Championship game will be the 30th title for FCS/I-AA Football xhurrayx (not necessarily BSC or Southland related, but I hadn't made that connection yet).
- Both conferences have seen 3 or more of their former conference mates move up to the I-A/FBS level;
Boise State, Idaho and Nevada for the Big Sky
Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, North Texas, Troy (St.) and UL-Monroe for the Southland Conference
- 4 former Southland schools are now playing in the Sun Belt Conference in the FBS division.
- 3 former Big Sky schools are now playing in the Western Athletic conference in the FBS division.
- Former Southland participant Troy St. defeated current BSC team Portland State in the 1987 D-II Championship Game 31-17.
- Troy State made it to the playoffs, 4 of the 5 years it was in the Southland (plus 1 as an independent).
- Idaho made the playoffs 11 of their last 12 years in FCS/I-AA Football.
- Weber State has been to the playoffs more times (2) than Portland State (1).

Regarding the playoffs, I created an Excel file, but it doesn't look like I can attach it. My apologies for the extra-lengthy thread.
- The only time teams from these two conferences played for the title game was in 1984 with Montana State defeating Louisiana Tech 19-6.
- The Big Sky has had 5 different schools reach the Championship game a total of 10 times, going 5-5.
- The Southland has had 5 different schools reach the Championship game a total of 6 times, going 1-5.
- If you take Montana and McNeese out of the equation for the playoffs, it's very similar from a numbers perspective;
2000-present; Big Sky (8 playoff appearances) - Southland (7 appearances)
1990-1999; both conferences had 5 playoff appearances with current members. The Big Sky had 9 appearances by former members while the Southland had 6 appearances by former members.
1980-1989; both conferences had 5 playoff appearances with current members. The Big Sky had 12 appearances by former members while the Southland had 10 appearances by former members.
- The home team in the 29 playoff matchups have won 24 of the contests for a .828 winning percentage.
- Of the 5 road victories, the Southland holds a 3-2 lead over the Big Sky and they are:
Sam Houston St. over Eastern Washington 35-31 in the 2004 Quarterfinal (great game and comeback by SHS)
Northern Arizona over McNeese St. 35-3 in the first round
Idaho over La-Monroe 34-31 in 1993 1st Rd
McNeese State over Idaho 23-20 in 1992 1st Rd
Northwestern State over Boise State 22-13 in the 1988 1st Rd

*Apps = Appearances Ind. = Independent N/A = Not Applicable
Big Sky Conference Playoff Apps 2000-2006 Playoff Apps 1990-1999 Playoff Apps 1980-1989
Montana (17 total) 7 7 3
E. Washington (5 total) 2 2 1
Montana State (4 total) 3 0 1
Northern Arizona (4 total) 2 2 0
Idaho State (2 total) 0 0 2
Weber State (2 total) 0 1 1
Portland State (1 total) 1 D-II most of decade D-II
# of Apps with Montana (35 total) 15 12 8
# of Apps with out Montana (18 total) 8 5 5
No longer in Big Sky
Idaho Vandals (11 total) Left BSC after 1995 season 5 6
Boise State (5 total) Left BSC after 1995 season 2 3
Nevada Wolf Pack (5 total) Left BSC after 1991 season 2 3
# of Apps of former members (21 total) N/A 9 12

Southland Conference Playoff Apps 2000-2006 Playoff Apps 1990-1999 Playoff Apps 1980-1989
McNeese State (11 total) 4 7 0
N'Western State (6 total) 3 2 1
Sam Houston State (4 total) 2 1 1
Stephen F. Austin (4 total) 0 2 2
Nicholls State (3 total) 1 1 1
Texas State (1 total) 1 D-II most of decade D-II
# of Apps with McNeese St. (28 total) 11 12 5
# of Apps with out McNeese St. (17 total) 7 5 5
No longer in Southland
Troy (4 + 1 Ind.) 1 (last season in 2000) 3 (1 more as Ind.) Troy was Ind.
UL – Monroe (3 total) N/A 2 1
North Texas (4 total) N/A 1 3
Arkansas State (4 total) N/A N/A 4
Louisiana Tech (2 total) N/A N/A 2
# of Apps of former members (17 +1) 1 6 SLC + 1 as Ind. 10

Regarding the Regular Season over the last 10 years. I truly wish I could have found some more media guides or official sites that listed the year-by-year results for all teams. As that didn’t happen, if you know of regular season games between BSC and Southland teams that are represented in the last 10 years, please respond with the details.

Montana vs. Southland in Regular Season last 10 years:
at Sam Houston St; L 41-29 (2004)
vs Sam Houston St; W 38-14 (2003)
at SFA; W 49-42 (1998)
vs SFA; W 24-10 (1997)
3-1 overall; 1-1 on the road
Prior to that:
at North Texas; W 21-17 (1994)
at McNeese St; L31-3 (1991)
vs McNeese St; W 45-22 (1990)

Northern Arizona vs Southland in Regular Season last 10 years:
at SFA; L 24-17 (2004)
at Sam Houston St; W 34-18 (2003)
vs Sam Houston St; W 40-14 (2002)
vs SFA; W 10-3 (2001)
at SW Texas St; W 29-26 (1999)
vs SW Texas St; W 38-16 (1998)
5-1 overall; 2-1 on the road
Prior to that:
vs North Texas; W 24-23 (1993)

Texas St vs. Big Sky in Regular Season last 10 years:
vs. Northern Colorado; L 14-13 (2006)
at Portland State; L 16-0 (2002)
vs Portland State; W 23-20 (2001)
vs Cal State-Northridge; L 19-13 (2000)
vs N. Arizona; L 29-26 (1999)
at N. Arizona; L 38-16 (1998)
vs Montana St; W 28-26 (1997)
2-5 overall (0-2 on the road)

I'm completely exhausted, but I hope the fans of the Big Sky and Southland find this information insightful.

Cheers - GrizDen

[GrizDen]

The title of the post should read, "last 27 years have been pretty dang good!"

[Griz0383]

true dat!

[GannonFan]

Yes, if the Big Sky got Boise St, Idaho, and Nevada back and if the Southland could add back in Ark St, Troy St, UL-Monroe, La Tech, and North Texas, then they would be very good and very strong conferences. Until then, the big gaping holes left in the wake of those teams leaving (and most of them left 10-15 years ago so that's a long time for the holes to still be holes) would still be there. No one's criticizing the entirety of either conference's history in I-AA/FCS, but when they do criticize they look at the past 10 years, and rightfully so. xpeacex

[McTailGator]

One minor note (very minor).

The Southland did not join I-AA until 1982. We were a I-A conference prior to that, and ONLY McNeese was a member of that conference during it's I-A years.

EVERY other SLC school was D-II prior to joining the SLC.

[TexasTerror]

This is a great site if your searching for results alone...

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa_team_index.php

[89Hen]

xbowx on the research, but the Southland is weak too. :p xsmiley_wix

[AZGrizFan]

Yes, if the Big Sky got Boise St, Idaho, and Nevada back and if the Southland could add back in Ark St, Troy St, UL-Monroe, La Tech, and North Texas, then they would be very good and very strong conferences. Until then, the big gaping holes left in the wake of those teams leaving (and most of them left 10-15 years ago so that's a long time for the holes to still be holes) would still be there. No one's criticizing the entirety of either conference's history in I-AA/FCS, but when they do criticize they look at the past 10 years, and rightfully so. xpeacex

Well, unfortunately the West is not like the East in that you can drive down a street and see 3-4 different I-AA teams in an hours drive. There's not exactly a wealth of teams to choose from should a conference made decide to make the leap to I-A. Granted, the BSC should have taken NDSU and SDSU when they had the chance....and the GWFC and BSC would probably be better served to merge ala the CAA, but we all know politics ain't gonna let that happen. We have what we have, and ain't a damned thing we can do about it...

[GannonFan]

Well, unfortunately the West is not like the East in that you can drive down a street and see 3-4 different I-AA teams in an hours drive. There's not exactly a wealth of teams to choose from should a conference made decide to make the leap to I-A. Granted, the BSC should have taken NDSU and SDSU when they had the chance....and the GWFC and BSC would probably be better served to merge ala the CAA, but we all know politics ain't gonna let that happen. We have what we have, and ain't a damned thing we can do about it...

Hey, I agree with the NDSU and SDSU - Big Sky finally had a change to plug the hole and went the other way with UNC - as you say, it is what it is.

[already123]

great read!

[Dallas Demon]

One minor note (very minor).

The Southland did not join I-AA until 1982. We were a I-A conference prior to that, and ONLY McNeese was a member of that conference during it's I-A years.

EVERY other SLC school was D-II prior to joining the SLC.

You are INCORRECT sir, Northwestern St. was a I-A member (independent) prior to joining I-AA. We would have been a member of the Southland had La. Tech and USL not voted us out year after year.

[appfan2008]

great work compiling all that information but really whats the point they(especially slc) are weak today!

[FCS Go!]

great work compiling all that information but really whats the point they(especially slc) are weak today!

I think the point was addressed in the initial post: compare Big Sky and Southland teams head-to-head. I'll apologize for GrizDen for not having the decency to include App St in there.xrolleyesx

[appfan2008]

my bad i was just making a point!

[Lionsrking]

One minor note (very minor).

The Southland did not join I-AA until 1982. We were a I-A conference prior to that, and ONLY McNeese was a member of that conference during it's I-A years.

EVERY other SLC school was D-II prior to joining the SLC.

Correction. Southeastern Louisiana was I-AAA (D-I with no football) when we moved from the TAAC to the Southland in 1997-98. We became I-AA again when we re-instated football in 2002. Our last year of D-II was 1979.

[AZGrizFan]

my bad i was just making a point!

And such an original point it is....

xdeadhorsex xdeadhorsex xdeadhorsex xdeadhorsex xdeadhorsex xdeadhorsex xdeadhorsex xdeadhorsex xdeadhorsex xdeadhorsex

[McNeese_beat]

One minor note (very minor).

The Southland did not join I-AA until 1982. We were a I-A conference prior to that, and ONLY McNeese was a member of that conference during it's I-A years.

EVERY other SLC school was D-II prior to joining the SLC.

To be technical, I think most of the members moved up from D-II prior to joining the SLC, but they were in the Gulf Star Conference as they transitioned to D-I.

By the time they joined the league, they had completed the transition.

[Dallas Demon]

To be technical, I think most of the members moved up from D-II prior to joining the SLC, but they were in the Gulf Star Conference as they transitioned to D-I.

By the time they joined the league, they had completed the transition.

That is correct for Sam Houston, SFA, and Texas St. - they were Division II before moving up to I-AA and the Gulf Star Conference.

Northwestern for sure was I-A for at least a couple of years before I-AA was formed, and I'm not sure when Nicholls and Southeastern moved up - they may have moved straight from Division II to I-AA in 1978.

[GrizDen]

No one's criticizing the entirety of either conference's history in I-AA/FCS, but when they do criticize they look at the past 10 years, and rightfully so. xpeacex

I agree that when doing research like this, the more recent it is makes it more relavent. But, I didn't want to be accused of not going back further where it would include other National Championship game appearances or titles for the Southland.

That's also why I included the playoff information broken up by decade. While we've only had 7 playoffs from 2000-to present, both the Big Sky and Southland have had 5 different schools reach the playoffs during that time.

That's not bad in my book.

[GrizDen]

This is a great site if your searching for results alone...

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa_team_index.php


Thanks, this likely would have cut my research time in half. xoopsx I'm going to book mark this site for future reference.