Delaware won't play Delaware State? What a joke

[saint0917]

Dear Delaware football recruit:

On behalf of alumni across the nation, I would like to congratulate you on being recruited to play football at the University of Delaware. As you know, our Blue Hens are six-time national champions and perennially one of the top Division I-AA xrolleyesx programs in the country. We have produced dozens of NFL players, ranging from Rich Gannon and Scott Brunner to Ivory Sully and Mike Adams. With our explosive passing attack, I am confident that a wide receiver like you could thrive here.
Delaware's a I-AA xrolleyesx national power, but it won't even play its next-door neighbor.
I also have been informed, however, that you are a student of character, decency and open-mindedness. That, more than anything, is why I am writing this letter: to urge you (and your fellow recruits) not to attend my beloved university.

That's right. Say no to the Blue Hens.

Allow me to be blunt. The University of Delaware's persistent refusal to face Delaware State University in football is cowardly, pig-headed, self-righteous and, worst of all, oozing with racism.

Delaware won't play Delaware State? What a joke (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/070920&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1)

[Go...gate]

Dear Delaware football recruit:

On behalf of alumni across the nation, I would like to congratulate you on being recruited to play football at the University of Delaware. As you know, our Blue Hens are six-time national champions and perennially one of the top Division I-AA xrolleyesx programs in the country. We have produced dozens of NFL players, ranging from Rich Gannon and Scott Brunner to Ivory Sully and Mike Adams. With our explosive passing attack, I am confident that a wide receiver like you could thrive here.
Delaware's a I-AA xrolleyesx national power, but it won't even play its next-door neighbor.
I also have been informed, however, that you are a student of character, decency and open-mindedness. That, more than anything, is why I am writing this letter: to urge you (and your fellow recruits) not to attend my beloved university.

That's right. Say no to the Blue Hens.

Allow me to be blunt. The University of Delaware's persistent refusal to face Delaware State University in football is cowardly, pig-headed, self-righteous and, worst of all, oozing with racism.

Delaware won't play Delaware State? What a joke (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/070920&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1)

I just read this. He certainly held nothing back.

[putter]

I was surprised this was written by a Delaware alum because of all the negativity toward the school. He may be right, but did one of his professors give him an F?

[Seahawks Fan]

I anxiously await the Delaware side of this story.

[OL FU]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/kevncoll/Emoticons/th_1f4e507c.gif

I may need to pop another basket for this onexnodx

[saint0917]

I anxiously await the Delaware side of this story.

Me either, this will be good. xnodx

[Seahawks Fan]

They had room on the schedule this year for Monmouth.

[mcveyrl]

I was surprised this was written by a Delaware alum because of all the negativity toward the school. He may be right, but did one of his professors give him an F?

I think that he is just wishing that his school would do what he perceives as the right thing, and is angry that they're doing the wrong thing.

Just to echo everyone else's comments...

This will be good.

[TigerFan17]

Hmm...I think he is unfairly making it seem like DSU is traditionally good just because they're top 25 this year. Fact is, they're traditionally bad, leaving UD with nothing to gain and a lot to lose. Fan support? They're gonna draw close to capacity if they play Delaware State or Dixie State.

Why not schedule West Chester that they KNOW they can beat instead of DSU that they THINK they can beat, but may lose to on a DSU up year, like this one?

I'm not saying this game shouldn't happen, just offering up some points.

[ChickenMan]

This issue has been debated a zillion times by UD fans.. some want to see the game.. some don't and most really don't care one way or another. Until recently I was in the 'don't care' camp.. as DSU had been a woeful I-AA program and until recently certainly no better than DII West Chester. However DSU coach Al Lavan seems to have the Hornets back on track and as a result.. I now would like to see a UD/DSU game. Will it happen.. probably not soon unless they both make the playoffs.. but if they should.. no doubt that the NCAA would match them in a first round game in Newark.

[BlueHen86]

I've always thought that Delaware should play Del St.

[saint0917]

I wonder how many emails this guy is going to get from Delaware fans. xwhistlex And by the way, his email addy is [email protected]. xthumbsupx

[TigerFan17]

probably not soon unless they both make the playoffs.. but if they should.. no doubt that the NCAA would match them in a first round game in Newark.

Ooo...didn't think about that. What a big game that would be. xnodx

[Seahawks Fan]

I've always thought that Delaware should play Del St.

Good for you. Tell the administration that.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I would like to see the Hens play Delaware State. Not because I have any particular interest in the game, but because I'm tired of reading and hearing about it. xcoffeex

I would like to see ANY FCS team replace West Chester on the schedule. The Hornets would fit that bill just as well as anyone else.

[WUTNDITWAA]

Jeff Pearlman...Isn't he the guy that wrote the John Rocker piece for SI?

[Ivytalk]

The two schools play each other in hoops and baseball now. Jeez, UD even plays "we'll accept anyone" Wilmington College in baseball. There's no valid excuse for holding out in football. But it's Groundhog Day in Newark...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This was some pretty rough stuff, filled with personal insults and accusations of racism. It should never have been written.

But what worries me more is that Delaware State head coach Al Lavan gets quoted in this context:


"What a joke," Al Lavan, Delaware State's football coach, told me. "I've been a part of many state rivalries in my career, and they're better than bowl games. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no idea what he's talking about.

"No," says Lavan, "there has to be more to this than just that."

And part of me says, come on, if you are really serious abut having this game be played, is this really the way to get it done? Call the other side racist and then expect the offers to play to pour in? xrolleyesx

If Delaware and Delaware State both make it into the playoffs, or get close, you can bank on this game happening, by the way.

[BlueHen86]

Good for you. Tell the administration that.
Believe it or not, I have. But they don't listen to me. I also want them to bring back wrestling, but that hasn't happened yet either (althought there are rumblings...). Unfortunately I don't have much pull with the admin.

[aust42]

This is an age old debate. The vast majority of Delaware fans are baffled why this game has not been played and wish to see it happen some day. The administration always uses the scheduling difficulty excuse but that is total BS. Who knows why the powers that be won't schedule the game. Maybe using the race card will put pressure on them to do so. The race card seems to work wonders in this day and age.

[Go...gate]

This is an age old debate. The vast majority of Delaware fans are baffled why this game has not been played and wish to see it happen some day. The administration always uses the scheduling difficulty excuse but that is total BS. Who knows why the powers that be won't schedule the game. Maybe using the race card will put pressure on them to do so. The race card seems to work wonders in this day and age.

It worked for Kentucky and Louisville.

[Retro]

Delaware should play them with a home and home.. It's likely Delaware will crush them and then the Hornets will move on. If not and it is a good game with good crowds on both sides, maybe they continue and everyone's happy... It's certainly better than either playing Div II Schools..

[appfan2008]

this game should be mandated by the state to happen every year sort of like west virginia and marshall

[Seahawks Fan]

There is a lot of tradition between Delaware and West Chester. I wouldn't want to sacrafice that game. But there is room on the schedule to accomodate Delaware State. This should get done. Every year.

[lizrdgizrd]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/kevncoll/Emoticons/th_1f4e507c.gif got mine now too!

[ChickenMan]

There is a lot of tradition between Delaware and West Chester. I wouldn't want to sacrafice that game. But there is room on the schedule to accomodate Delaware State. This should get done. Every year.


The UD/West Chester game has been played for 40+ yrs.. but unfortunately WCU has become less and less competitive over the past 10+ years. I recently compared scores from the '80s.. '90s and 2000's and found UD's average margin of victory has dramatically increased..

average UD margin of victory..

'80/'89.. 9.7

'90/'99.. 14.2

'00/'07.. 33.7

what was once a relatively competitive game has become little more than a glorified scrimmage. It's past time to end the WCU series and if Del St is willing to play every year at UD (as does WCU) I'm all for it.

[OL FU]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/kevncoll/Emoticons/th_1f4e507c.gif got mine now too!


xthumbsupx

[henfan]

I anxiously await the Delaware side of this story.

Alas, there is no UD side to this story... not a reasonable explanation anyway. Pearlman nailed it.

BTW, he's the same guy who wrote a glowing featured on UD FB for SI in 2003 and an ESPN feature on UD MBB coach prior to last season. He's not about savaging UD except when criticism is due.xthumbsupx

[blukeys]

Delaware should play them with a home and home.. It's likely Delaware will crush them and then the Hornets will move on. If not and it is a good game with good crowds on both sides, maybe they continue and everyone's happy... It's certainly better than either playing Div II Schools..

Where are you gonna put the extra 16,000 fans who can't fit into the Del State Stadium???

The game should be played in Newark

[mcveyrl]

Where are you gonna put the extra 16,000 fans who can't fit into the Del State Stadium???

The game should be played in Newark

Is there a neutral site??

What about Dover Downs!!???:p

[skinny_uncle]

Playing another in-state DI school should be a no-brainer. I'm not sure what kind of snobbery blocks this in many places, but it leads to reasonable travel combined with better than average crowds in most places. If SIU can schedule Northwestern and the Fighting Illini over the next three years, I see no reason for Delaware not to play Delaware State. Delaware may have had the stronger program over the years, but that is not a great reason to ignore a neighbor.

[89Hen]

I anxiously await the Delaware side of this story.


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/kevncoll/Emoticons/th_1f4e507c.gif

I may need to pop another basket for this onexnodx


Me either, this will be good. xnodx
The short story... xboringx

The long story... xdeadhorsex

[89Hen]

it leads to reasonable travel combined with better than average crowds in most places.
UD sells out no matter who they bring in.

[89Hen]

I would like to see the Hens play Delaware State. Not because I have any particular interest in the game, but because I'm tired of reading and hearing about it. xcoffeex

xnodx The ONLY reason I'd be for the game. I grew up in Delaware and for people in Illinois, Massachusetts, etc... to comment on what a "rivalry" it would be is comical.

[89Hen]

Delaware should play them with a home and home...
DSU's stadium would NOT hold 1/4th of the crowd.

[mcveyrl]

I think this story could play out for a lot of other states.

Take Virginia for example. When's the last time that JMU, Richmond, William & Mary, etc. scheduled an HBCU within the state?

I would LOVE to take VMI off the schedule and add Hampton or Norfolk State.

IMO we don't schedule them enough and I don't know why. It can't be travel costs or that we're booked.

I honestly don't know about the other schools in the state, but I think a Hampton-JMU home and home makes sense. And ODU BETTER play one of those two schools yearly.

[89Hen]

There is a lot of tradition between Delaware and West Chester. I wouldn't want to sacrafice that game. But there is room on the schedule to accomodate Delaware State. This should get done. Every year.
90% of UD fans want West Chester off the schedule.

[Retro]

DSU's stadium would NOT hold 1/4th of the crowd.


OK, Then if that is the issue, then tell DSU that you will play them in delaware only or at a netural site for the 2nd game unless they can expand their stadium or give you a minimum of 5,000 tickets.. You can't expect DSU to accomodate all UD fans, but if they really want to play at their home they have to be somewhat accomodating.. If not, then just play at UD for now..

[OL FU]

DSU's stadium would NOT hold 1/4th of the crowd.

Time to head to the microwave and pop another batchxnodx

[89Hen]

OK, Then if that is the issue, then tell DSU that you will play them in delaware only or at a netural site for the 2nd game unless they can expand their stadium or give you a minimum of 5,000 tickets.. You can't expect DSU to accomodate all UD fans, but if they really want to play at their home they have to be somewhat accomodating.. If not, then just play at UD for now..
DSU has said in the past they will accept a game in Newark with no return game. They know they don't have a place to hold the game. Keep in mind that UD and DSU are only 45 minutes apart, so all 22,000 that normally go to Newark would also most likely go to Dover.

Keep in mind also that UD sells out every game these days and none of our opponents bring more than 1,000... and that's even rare. We can't fit any more in our stadium either.

[mvemjsunpx]

As a Montana fan, I couldn't care one way or the other as to whether Delaware plays Delaware State. However, this article is very journalistically irresponsible (assuming sports journalism even qualifies as journalism).

Jeff Pearlman argues that Delaware not scheduling Delaware State is motivated by racism, yet he gives absolutely no evidence as to why that may be. Pearlman basically says, "one school is mainly white, & the other is mainly black, so, therefore, it's racism". This hardly qualifies as proof. Does Appalachian State not schedule North Carolina A&T because of racism?
Does Georgetown not schedule Howard because of racism?

Maybe Delaware is partially motivated by race in not playing the Hornets, but Pearlman certainly didn't provide any proof of that. Instead he provided nothing but slanderous innuendo in his desperate & juvenile attempt to embarrass his alma mater.

[89Hen]

I think this story could play out for a lot of other states.

Take Virginia for example. When's the last time that JMU, Richmond, William & Mary, etc. scheduled an HBCU within the state?
I can't speak for anyone else, but for ME I don't give a rats arse if DSU were a Historically Green College and University... it has nothing to do with white v. black and everything to do that UD has built their program into what it is today and in turn gets great support and they don't need somebody else tell them who they HAVE to play.

[saint0917]

xnodx The ONLY reason I'd be for the game. I grew up in Delaware and for people in Illinois, Massachusetts, etc... to comment on what a "rivalry" it would be is comical.

Uh.....NOT!! We know it won't be a "rivalry". I just think two teams that close to each other, should play each other. xpeacex

[mcveyrl]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for ME I don't give a rats arse if DSU were a Historically Green College and University... it has nothing to do with white v. black and everything to do that UD has built their program into what it is today and in turn gets great support and they don't need somebody else tell them who they HAVE to play.

I get what you're saying, but I'm saying that he could put other schools in the story and his premise would still be valid, regardless of whether his reasoning is right or wrong.

[89Hen]

I get what you're saying, but I'm saying that he could put other schools in the story and his premise would still be valid, regardless of whether his reasoning is right or wrong.
Not sure I follow. xconfusedx His whole premise is racism, not locationism.

[mcveyrl]

Not sure I follow. xconfusedx His whole premise is racism, not locationism.

Well, I think his premise is that the reasons given to this point aren't valid (i.e. no room on schedule), so, because of the HBCU status of DState, the reason must be racism.

I think that could be said for several states, so I took my home state of Virginia as an example. I would love to see a home-home with Hampton, but we haven't played them in some years. Why not? No room on schedule? No. The two schools are very close and would make perfect sense as an OOC game. So, is JMU not playing Hampton because of racism? I don't think so, but his arguments would apply there.

The only difference is that these are the only two FCS teams in the state and DState has expressed an interest in playing UD.

[HIU 93]

And part of me says, come on, if you are really serious abut having this game be played, is this really the way to get it done? Call the other side racist and then expect the offers to play to pour in? xrolleyesx



He didn't call them racist. He said it was more to it than that. In all the interviews and quotes I've read from Coach Lavan, that is not even his style. I've said it was racist, and I will continue to. Coach Lavan hasn't, and to accuse him of such is to ignore the facts.

[HIU 93]

I think that could be said for several states, so I took my home state of Virginia as an example. I would love to see a home-home with Hampton, but we haven't played them in some years. Why not? No room on schedule? No. The two schools are very close and would make perfect sense as an OOC game. So, is JMU not playing Hampton because of racism? I don't think so, but his arguments would apply there.


I just think y'all don't want to take another loss to us. Seriously- I believe that is your coach's and AD's rationale for avoiding scheduling the home and home. I don't think it has anything to do with race.

[mcveyrl]

I just think y'all don't want to take another loss to us. Seriously- I believe that is your coach's and AD's rationale for avoiding scheduling the home and home. I don't think it has anything to do with race.

I don't it has anything to do with race, either, I was just drawing some parallels.

Plus, I think you're right. VMI/Liberty is a much easier in-state game for us.

[89Hen]

Well, I think his premise is that the reasons given to this point aren't valid (i.e. no room on schedule), so, because of the HBCU status of DState, the reason must be racism.
I could just as easily say it's because of the fact that they are named for a flying insect or that they are red and powder blue.

[mcveyrl]

I could just as easily say it's because of the fact that they are named for a flying insect or that they are red and powder blue.

But I wasn't talking about your reasons, I was applying the reasons in the article to another situation and saying that you could use that just about anywhere.

[89Hen]

But I wasn't talking about your reasons, I was applying the reasons in the article to another situation and saying that you could use that just about anywhere.
I'm dense because I still don't get it. :o Seemed like you were saying you could insert any teams and get the desired result... I took that to mean ANY pair, like Penn and Delaware... now I think you meant any PWC and and HBCU?

[Go...gate]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for ME I don't give a rats arse if DSU were a Historically Green College and University... it has nothing to do with white v. black and everything to do that UD has built their program into what it is today and in turn gets great support and they don't need somebody else tell them who they HAVE to play.


Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but you take this position even though UD is a state-funded institution?

[89Hen]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but you take this position even though UD is a state-funded institution?
We recieve no state funds for athletics and VERY little state funds for anything else. UD is considered a 'quasi-public' institution.

[HensRock]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but you take this position even though UD is a state-funded institution?

Delaware is quasi-private.

That means they are a private school whenever it's convenient and are a public school whenever they need state money. :D

[Go...gate]

We recieve no state funds for athletics and VERY little state funds for anything else. UD is considered a 'quasi-public' institution.

OK, did not know that. Thanks for the clarification.

[Ivytalk]

Delaware is quasi-private.

That means they are a private school whenever it's convenient and are a public school whenever they need state money. :D

Nailed it!xbowx xthumbsupx

[Go...gate]

Delaware is quasi-private.

That means they are a private school whenever it's convenient and are a public school whenever they need state money. :D

Not necessarily. I believe it does distinguish UD from the classic "land-grant" institution.

Bottom line, why not play DSU a couple of times and see what happens?

[WUTNDITWAA]

So which is it? Quasi-public or quasi-private. :D

[Go...gate]

Temple has a similar status in Pennsylvania, as does Pittsburgh.

[89Hen]

Bottom line, why not play DSU a couple of times and see what happens?
Sorry to answer a question with a question, but do you think that satisfy DSU's desire to play UD?

[Tealblood]

sure sounds like it would

[Go...gate]

Sorry to answer a question with a question, but do you think that satisfy DSU's desire to play UD?

Admittedly, probably not. But if you play them from time to time, it would not seem any different than playing a lot of other non-conference schools.

Back in the day, Rutgers had the same beef against Princeton - there was a 70-year pause between games - but they ultimately got together and it was a fun series for about 40 years until RU fully committed to I-A.

[Bro. Askia Musa Afiba]

They Should Play. Other HBCUs have played Delaware, including NC Central University. Why Not Delaware State, in both Football and Basketball? xconfusedx

I think we all truly do know what the real reason is. The person who wrote the aforementioned article seems to have a very correct finger on the issue.

Just my opinion.

Take Care!

[mcveyrl]

I'm dense because I still don't get it. :o Seemed like you were saying you could insert any teams and get the desired result... I took that to mean ANY pair, like Penn and Delaware... now I think you meant any PWC and and HBCU?

Yes. That's where I was going. Sorry for the confusion.

[89Hen]

sure sounds like it would
How so?

[89Hen]

Yes. That's where I was going. Sorry for the confusion.
I think that's a given because that's an automatic starter for many people.

[MR. CHICKEN]

MAY AH OFFERAH SOME REBUTTAL?...............DELAWARE STATE IS UH JOKE O' AN INSTITUTION.....WHIFF UH 30% GRADUATION RATE......CLASSROOM SCANDALS/GRADE FIXIN'....DOUBLE-DIPPIN' LEGISLATORS/EMPLOYEES......DERE ATTENDANCE IS...PITIFUL.......3200 TA WATCH DUH POLL BOUND HORNETS...TAKE ON UH RANKED...COASTAL CAROLINA........YOU CAN ENROLL IN DIS PLACE....IFIN' YA CAN SPELL CHECK YER JOHN HANCOCK............DERE PRESIDENT SESSOMS....IS UNDERAH FIRE....AS HE WISHES TA IMPOSE ENROLLMENT STANDARDS....WANTS DUH NATIONAL ANTHEM PLAYED PRIOR TA DUH BLACK ONE.........HE DOESN'T WANT TA REMAIN HISTORICALLY BLACK.....AS HE KNOWS HE MUST GROW DUH STUDENT BODYAH.......HE DOES SEEM TA HAVE UH CRAZY DREAM...AS ENVISIONIN'....DUH RED/BLUE.......GOIN' FBS..........FLA A&M......COULDN'T MAKE IT AFTERAH OWNIN' DUH MEAC FO' YEARS............NOW WHY WOULD U OF D.........WANNAH.....GIVE DIS INSTITUTION CREEDENCE?.......TRUE WE HAVE PLAYED IN BASKETBALL/BASEBALL.......DERE WAS AN INCIDENT WHEN DELAWARE WENT TA DOVER FO' ROUNDBALL.......HEY WE GOTTAH GET SOME NON-CONS IN B/FO'....DUH CAA BASEBALL SKED.....YA'LL CAN ONLY GET SO MANY IN DUH SOUTHERN SWING....IN MARCH!.....HENS HAVE NO TROUBLE GETTIN' PIGGY PARTIES........AH LIKE COACH LAVAN.....'CAUSE AH LIKE FOOTBALL.....HE IS DOIN' UH GREAT JOB AT STATE.............HEY YA WANNAH TEE IT UP........MAKE DUH PLAYOFF 16..............BRAWK/BUZZ!

[89Hen]

MAY AH OFFERAH SOME REBUTTAL?...............DELAWARE STATE IS UH JOKE O' AN INSTITUTION.....WHIFF UH 30% GRADUATION RATE......CLASSROOM SCANDALS/GRADE FIXIN'....DOUBLE-DIPPIN' LEGISLATORS/EMPLOYEES......DERE ATTENDANCE IS...PITIFUL.......3200 TA WATCH DUH POLL BOUND HORNETS...TAKE ON UH RANKED...COASTAL CAROLINA........YOU CAN ENROLL IN DIS PLACE....IFIN' YA CAN SPELL CHECK YER JOHN HANCOCK............DERE PRESIDENT SESSOMS....IS UNDERAH FIRE....AS HE WISHES TA IMPOSE ENROLLMENT STANDARDS....WANTS DUH NATIONAL ANTHEM PLAYED PRIOR TA DUH BLACK ONE.........HE DOESN'T WANT TA REMAIN HISTORICALLY BLACK.....AS HE KNOWS HE MUST GROW DUH STUDENT BODYAH.......HE DOES SEEM TA HAVE UH CRAZY DREAM...AS ENVISIONIN'....DUH RED/BLUE.......GOIN' FBS..........FLA A&M......COULDN'T MAKE IT AFTERAH OWNIN' DUH MEAC FO' YEARS............NOW WHY WOULD U OF D.........WANNAH.....GIVE DIS INSTITUTION CREEDENCE?.......TRUE WE HAVE PLAYED IN BASKETBALL/BASEBALL.......DERE WAS AN INCIDENT WHEN DELAWARE WENT TA DOVER FO' ROUNDBALL.......HEY WE GOTTAH GET SOME NON-CONS IN B/FO'....DUH CAA BASEBALL SKED.....YA'LL CAN ONLY GET SO MANY IN DUH SOUTHERN SWING....IN MARCH!.....HENS HAVE NO TROUBLE GETTIN' PIGGY PARTIES........AH LIKE COACH LAVAN.....'CAUSE AH LIKE FOOTBALL.....HE IS DOIN' UH GREAT JOB AT STATE.............HEY YA WANNAH TEE IT UP........MAKE DUH PLAYOFF 16..............BRAWK/BUZZ!

Yeah! What he said! Wait... what did he say? xconfusedx :p

[brownbear]

mcveryl,

Part of the reason you are arguing for Delaware and DSU to play is that they are close. This is the opposite thinking in Virginia. VMI is very close to JMU, so therefore they play against each other. Hampton and JMU are about 200 miles apart.

Also, someone talked about how Temple doesn't play anyone in Pennsylvania. The bigger one there is that Pitt and Penn State stopped playing each about 10 years ago. They make natural state rivals, but instead they'd rather play teams like Eastern Michigan and Florida International.

[Tealblood]

How so?

they want to play so if you play them it will help

Play them a couple of times see where it goes

[89Hen]

they want to play so if you play them it will help

Play them a couple of times see where it goes
Not to nitpick but you said it sounds like it would satisfy them. I don't know on what basis you're making that call. Run through the scenarios assuming one thing, that the first one or two games would be in Newark. This is how I see it...

We win both games by a big margin... DSU comes back with a request to play somewhere where we don't have home field advantage (which is rather ridiculous because if you play it anywhere near the state of DE we bring 4x the number of fans).

The games are close or they actually win... DSU would be clamouring even MORE for another game claiming the Hens are chicken (double entendre (sp?) intended).

I honestly don't think one or two games ends this debate. xtwocentsx

[ngineer]

Kentucky and Louisville had this problem years ago and it took an act of the State Legislature to have them play each other...Maybe that's what it takes....xreadx

[MR. CHICKEN]

KNUCKLE-DRAGGERAHS......DELAWARE'S...FOOTBALL SKED.....IS BOOKED.........TIL LIKE...DAT ZAGER & EVANS TUNE........FO' DUH LAST TIME.........IT WILL ONLY HAPPEN IN DUH PLAY-OFF ARENA!...xwhistlex...BRAWK!

[AlphaSigMD]

I would like to commission this guy to write a similar piece on why UNC and Duke keep avoiding Appalachian State. 1938's been far too long...

I understand they are completely different circumstances (no racial overtones for example), but still...i feel delaware st.'s pain on this one.

Give them a chance hens!

[JDC325]

Wow I am glad GSU occasionly stomps the crap out of Sav State. I suggest UD stomp the crap out of them and then they will not want to play as often or ever. You do not hear Sav State who is 45 down the road complaining about not getting to play GSU more often do ya? Play them beat them and watch the "racial" crapola fade away.

[RadMann]

I don't have much enthusiasm for such a game, although I am not against DSU replacing WCU on the UD schedule. If such a game were to take place, from UD's perspective it should replace WCU as the home-only game on the schedule, with no return game(s). My feelings on this are that if FBS programs can mandate that arrangement from FCS programs for a series, UD can demand that to DSU and there should be no complaint from the DSU side if such an offer were made. I really don't see this game garnering too much interest in Delaware though because UD and DSU are worlds apart. This is unfortunate, but very true.

[skinny_uncle]

I don't have much enthusiasm for such a game, although I am not against DSU replacing WCU on the UD schedule. If such a game were to take place, from UD's perspective it should replace WCU as the home-only game on the schedule, with no return game(s). My feelings on this are that if FBS programs can mandate that arrangement from FCS programs for a series, UD can demand that to DSU and there should be no complaint from the DSU side if such an offer were made. I really don't see this game garnering too much interest in Delaware though because UD and DSU are worlds apart. This is unfortunate, but very true.
If you gave DSU the kind of money FBS teams give out, they might go for a one-and-done at your place.
:D

[henfan]

DSU would be clamouring even MORE for another game claiming the Hens are chicken (double entendre (sp?) intended).

I honestly don't think one or two games ends this debate.

Well, you're certainly entitled to speculate all you want about what DSU might or might not do under hypothetical situations. In the end, it's just silliness. No one knows what would come of future games after an initial game or series was scheduled... no one. Not UD. Not DSU. Certainly not you or me. Speculation is no support for why the two teams should never meet in the regular season.

From experience, we know what happened with the MBB & WBB series between UD & DSU. UD dominated the series, the contract expired and both sides mutually walked away without much discussion or animosity. The baseball series continues to this day because a competitive rivalry has developed that both schools see as beneficial, apparently. Not sure why anyone would think similar circumstances wouldn't be likely with FB?xconfusedx

BTW, the folks comparing JMU-Hampton or App-NC A&T to the UD-DSU situation, that's a complete fallacy. JMU & HU have at least scheduled one another twice. App State and NC A&T have played four times during the regular season. While it might not have been often enough for fans of those schools, the point is that the those schools haven't refused to EVER schedule one another, as is the case with UD. Despite having played at the same levels for close to five decades, UD has NEVER, EVER agreed to play DSU, despite numerous attempts by DSU over the years.

Make no mistake about it: both UD and DSU are very much public, land grant institutions. Despite what's been said here, both schools still rely heavily on state support. UD receives 17% of its budget ($116M) from taxpayers. DSU receives about 20% of its budget from the State. When a percentage of my tax dollar stops going to either school, when both reimburse the feds for the land they were granted over 100 years ago, they can call themselves quasi-public, quasi-private or quasi-moto, for all I care. For the time being, there are both still very much public institutions with public missions.

[MR. CHICKEN]

RIGHT NOW.....DELAWARE STATE....WOULD PLAY US....FO' UH BUCKET O' CHICKEN..............xnodx...BRAWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

If you gave DSU the kind of money FBS teams give out, they might go for a one-and-done at your place.
:D

RIGHT NOW......DELAWARE STATE WOULD PLAY US.....FO'...UH BUCKET O' CHICKEN....xnodx..BRAWK!

[henfan]

KNUCKLE-DRAGGERAHS......DELAWARE'S...FOOTBALL SKED.....IS BOOKED.........TIL LIKE...DAT ZAGER & EVANS TUNE........[/B]...xwhistlex...BRAWK!

Fine, but our Yellow Hens will need to invent another excuse when DSU still isn't scheduled in the YEAR 2526.xsmiley_wix

[skinny_uncle]

RIGHT NOW......DELAWARE STATE WOULD PLAY US.....FO'...UH BUCKET O' CHICKEN....xnodx..BRAWK!

http://bestsmileys.com/animals/3.gif

[GeeWiz]

MAY AH OFFERAH SOME REBUTTAL?...............DELAWARE STATE IS UH JOKE O' AN INSTITUTION.....WHIFF UH 30% GRADUATION RATE......CLASSROOM SCANDALS/GRADE FIXIN'....DOUBLE-DIPPIN' LEGISLATORS/EMPLOYEES......DERE ATTENDANCE IS...PITIFUL.......3200 TA WATCH DUH POLL BOUND HORNETS...TAKE ON UH RANKED...COASTAL CAROLINA........YOU CAN ENROLL IN DIS PLACE....IFIN' YA CAN SPELL CHECK YER JOHN HANCOCK............DERE PRESIDENT SESSOMS....IS UNDERAH FIRE....AS HE WISHES TA IMPOSE ENROLLMENT STANDARDS....WANTS DUH NATIONAL ANTHEM PLAYED PRIOR TA DUH BLACK ONE.........HE DOESN'T WANT TA REMAIN HISTORICALLY BLACK.....AS HE KNOWS HE MUST GROW DUH STUDENT BODYAH.......HE DOES SEEM TA HAVE UH CRAZY DREAM...AS ENVISIONIN'....DUH RED/BLUE.......GOIN' FBS..........FLA A&M......COULDN'T MAKE IT AFTERAH OWNIN' DUH MEAC FO' YEARS............NOW WHY WOULD U OF D.........WANNAH.....GIVE DIS INSTITUTION CREEDENCE?.......TRUE WE HAVE PLAYED IN BASKETBALL/BASEBALL.......DERE WAS AN INCIDENT WHEN DELAWARE WENT TA DOVER FO' ROUNDBALL.......HEY WE GOTTAH GET SOME NON-CONS IN B/FO'....DUH CAA BASEBALL SKED.....YA'LL CAN ONLY GET SO MANY IN DUH SOUTHERN SWING....IN MARCH!.....HENS HAVE NO TROUBLE GETTIN' PIGGY PARTIES........AH LIKE COACH LAVAN.....'CAUSE AH LIKE FOOTBALL.....HE IS DOIN' UH GREAT JOB AT STATE.............HEY YA WANNAH TEE IT UP........MAKE DUH PLAYOFF 16..............BRAWK/BUZZ!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/fragend/confused-smiley-013.gif

[blukeys]

From experience, we know what happened with the MBB & WBB series between UD & DSU. UD dominated the series, the contract expired and both sides mutually walked away without much discussion or animosity. The baseball series continues to this day because a competitive rivalry has developed that both schools see as beneficial, apparently. Not sure why anyone would think similar circumstances wouldn't be likely with FB?xconfusedx



Now John I am surprised you have not done your homework on the UD - DSU baseball rivalry. (Which was not stopped by racism, sorry HIU 93) This rivalry has survived because it is very competitive and is loaded with DELAWARE natives on both teams.

Local Dover coaches such as Harry Van Sant have done a great job of recruiting local talent for DSU. Now if you check out the rosters of DSU and UD FOOTBALL TEAMS and more important if you look at the student bodies of both DSU and UD you will see that most students at these schools are from out of state. This is not the case with the baseball teams.

Your attempt to compare the baseball situation to the football team is bogus. We have more DSU students who are natives of Newark NJ then Newark DE. How interested are they in a DSU-UD Game?

[hornetsrhorrible]

id like to see it happen. first ud would win and win big it would be an embarassment to dsu. now with that out of the way! would it be good for the fbs? probably wouldnt matter, would it be good for the mass media? no, would it be good for the state of delaware? yes! i grew up 20 miles down the road from dsu and there is a disconnect between the school and the community. this game would bring attention to dsu athletics and(ill get hammered for this by the upstaters) help motivate downstaters to start watching dsu and maybe even take an interest in dsu. it would be a winner for dowver if they could figure out how to accomodate all the hens fans. this game would help to elevate high school football in slower delaware(not that it has anywhere but up to go!). hs players would actually have a "local" college team/game thats of interest to them(maybe even, in a small way,help to produce some players that could play at one of the schools so the rosters would have more than 2-3 local kids!:( . i think its a winner for delaware and id like to see it happen especially if dsu continues to improve!xthumbsupx

[pantherfan]

Dear Delaware football recruit:

On behalf of alumni across the nation, I would like to congratulate you on being recruited to play football at the University of Delaware. As you know, our Blue Hens are six-time national champions and perennially one of the top Division I-AA xrolleyesx programs in the country. We have produced dozens of NFL players, ranging from Rich Gannon and Scott Brunner to Ivory Sully and Mike Adams. With our explosive passing attack, I am confident that a wide receiver like you could thrive here.
Delaware's a I-AA xrolleyesx national power, but it won't even play its next-door neighbor.
I also have been informed, however, that you are a student of character, decency and open-mindedness. That, more than anything, is why I am writing this letter: to urge you (and your fellow recruits) not to attend my beloved university.

That's right. Say no to the Blue Hens.

Allow me to be blunt. The University of Delaware's persistent refusal to face Delaware State University in football is cowardly, pig-headed, self-righteous and, worst of all, oozing with racism.

Delaware won't play Delaware State? What a joke (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/070920&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1)

Wow, how refreshing, a struggling freelance writer comes up with a story that will stir the racial-tension pot with this "Jena 6" nonsense on the frontpage! The UD administration MIGHT be the most racist, hate-filled people alive, but I have a feeling that race is not the reason this game does not take place...

NOTE TO READERS: I call the "Jena 6" issue 'nonsense' because I strongly feel that this particular case is not the one that the civil rights activists should have picked to make a stand. Let's not forget these 6 "poor kind-hearted young men" beat the ***** out of a guy in a 6 vs. 1 fight...not exactly guys that I would be demanding 'freedom' for.xcoffeex This is not to say that there aren't some racist bastard whites in this tiny little town.

[GannonFan]

Alright, here's my reply.

First off, despite Pearlman's slam, there truly are people at GoHens who don't care much one way or another whether UD ever plays DSU. It is far from the powderkeg that he makes it out to be. I'm one of those people - if we play DSU, great, if we don't, just as great. As a PA resident (and I'm not alone as almost 70% of UD students come from out of state) I'm not going to get worked up over an in-state "rivalry" of a state I don't even live in. Oh, and for reference, Delaware St isn't chock full of native Delawareans either - less than 50% of its students are from Delaware.

Second, Pearlman's done a disservice here by basically penning a hit and run slam piece. If UD was as racist as he claims, and that because Delaware St is an HBCU and therefore UD doesn't want to play them because of that, how do you explain the fact that UD has played HBCU's before?? Yes, UD has played teams like Morgan St, North Carolina A&T, and so on. Let me repeat, with bold italics... Delaware has played other HBCU's - how can we be racist then in our refusal to play DSU? The obvious answer is that Delaware isn't racist by not playing Delaware St.

Third, I have no doubt that Delaware does not want to play Delaware St. Since we have played other HBCU's before, and therefore since race is not an issue, and since none of us are UD trustees, we'll have to speculate a different reason. IMO, the main reason is that UD has absolutely nothing to gain playing such a game. UD sells out for every game anyway, UD has complete domination of the state for fans, media, money, everything. Heck, even the Dover paper does better coverage of the upstate Blue Hens as opposed to the hometown Hornets (and truthfully, DIII Wesley gets better coverage than the Hornets and they are in the same town). So with absolutely nothing to gain, the game only represents the chance to lose something. DSU has claimed they only want one game and will play it anywhere, but when this issue came up again 2-3 years ago (it comes up every year) some DSU officials were quoted that they would want to have an ongoing series and they would want games in Dover. It kinda makes the claim to only want to play one game anywhere anytime ring sort of hollow. Of course, that can't happen right now - DSU's facilities couldn't host the game and DSU lacks any credible following to get them right now. However, enter a game against Delaware every year, with a chance to eventually beat the Hens and become more credible, and that could change. Does that sound pompous, that UD could help "create" other programs? Sure it does, but that's exactly what Gordy Combs, coach at Towson, said after beating UD in the past two years - here's the quote:


“I always say this — we didn’t beat a team, we beat a program,” said Towson coach Gordy Combs. “We have always aspired to be like the Delaware program.

“I think it (beating Delaware twice) has helped our program immensely. It’s given us instant respect in our second and third year in the Atlantic 10 and now in the CAA.”


That kind of help leads to better recruiting, better followings, better facilities, etc. Again, why is it in UD's interest to be the springboard for DSU to rise to better things? DSU has a blueprint for a 20k stadium and a dream to move to FBS - certainly getting to play big bad Delaware and, on an off chance, beating them, would be a big help in getting the respectability to make those things happen. UD has to play Towson since they are conference mates, and playing schools like Albany and Lehigh, schools that on their own inertia are already at respectable levels or will be, has no impact on their fortunes. But DSU would be different, they are in UD's shadow right now. If they, on their own, continue to make their program better and get better recruits and better facilities, then eventually I'm sure UD will play them as it would be a meeting of equals. Right now, I'm sure the UD administration would feel, it would be helping DSU with no benefit whatsoever for UD.

And the last point, I don't think this game will be played right now or for the foreseeable future as I think UD is particularly annoyed at being labeled racist, including by the current DSU coach. Lavan's a very good coach for DSU, and I think he has them headed in the right way, but he called out UD as racists two years ago and he does it again in this article. That's a pretty damning allegation to make, and one that isn't easily refuted in public because I'm sure UD doesn't want to trot out with the real excuse that the don't play DSU because they don't want to be the backbone for building DSU's program up. So it puts them in an even harder position, as playing the game under those pronouncements would truly make the game a "white versus black" game complete with racial overtones. That's certainly the makings of an intense rivalry, but again, since UD has played HBCU's in the past it basically requires UD to take the public hit of being the evil "racist" university. I don't think it's surprising that UD doesn't want to be in that role. So they take the periodic slam piece in either the local paper or from apparently disgruntled alumns, and they continue on.

If luck should turn out, and if DSU makes their first playoff appearance ever and UD continues to play like the quality team they seem to be, the NCAA will gladly pair the two for a first round game, in Newark, this Thanksgiving Day weekend. For now, that's how the game will have to happen - both will need to be good, and in the playoffs, in the same year.

Cue the popcorn. xpeacex

[R.A.]

Ooo...didn't think about that. What a big game that would be. xnodx


Not so fast my friend, if DSU wins the MEAC or finishes with a better record than Delaware, say DSU goes 9-2 and UD goes 8-3... I bet that the committee would give Del State dibs on playing at home.

[R.A.]

This was some pretty rough stuff, filled with personal insults and accusations of racism. It should never have been written.

But what worries me more is that Delaware State head coach Al Lavan gets quoted in this context:



And part of me says, come on, if you are really serious abut having this game be played, is this really the way to get it done? Call the other side racist and then expect the offers to play to pour in? xrolleyesx


Well, what's he gonna call them, "chicken?" xlolx

[R.A.]

Wow I am glad GSU occasionly stomps the crap out of Sav State. I suggest UD stomp the crap out of them and then they will not want to play as often or ever. You do not hear Sav State who is 45 down the road complaining about not getting to play GSU more often do ya? Play them beat them and watch the "racial" crapola fade away.

When is the last time GSU played SCSU? I know they have played before, when's the last time and what's the series record?

[R.A.]

Not to nitpick but you said it sounds like it would satisfy them. I don't know on what basis you're making that call. Run through the scenarios assuming one thing, that the first one or two games would be in Newark. This is how I see it...

We win both games by a big margin... DSU comes back with a request to play somewhere where we don't have home field advantage (which is rather ridiculous because if you play it anywhere near the state of DE we bring 4x the number of fans).

The games are close or they actually win... DSU would be clamouring even MORE for another game claiming the Hens are chicken (double entendre (sp?) intended).

I honestly don't think one or two games ends this debate. xtwocentsx


Is it suppose too?? xwhistlex

[Eagle22]

When is the last time GSU played SCSU? I know they have played before, when's the last time and what's the series record?

South Carolina State ? Last played them in 1996 ... GSU has a 6-0 mark vs. the Bulldogs.

Savannah State, last played them in 2003, and we lead that series 8-0.

[bluehenbillk]

They Should Play. Other HBCUs have played Delaware, including NC Central University. Why Not Delaware State, in both Football and Basketball? xconfusedx

I think we all truly do know what the real reason is. The person who wrote the aforementioned article seems to have a very correct finger on the issue.

Just my opinion.

Take Care!

Correct, as has UD played Morgan St & North Carolina A&T.

[Seahawks Fan]

Sorry to answer a question with a question, but do you think that satisfy DSU's desire to play UD?

Yes, I do.

[andy7171]

Delaware doesn't want ot play DelState because DelState wants to have a home game. Delaware is in a position where they DON'T have to play away games except for CAA league play. Why go somewhere else to play when you can make money at home?

[OL FU]

I think Delaware should play Delaware State. xnodx But I think to jump to the conclusion that race is the only reason they would not play them is a simplistic conclusion. There are many reasons they might not play them not the least of which is to maintain any competitive advantage they might think they have over DSU. While both are in the same division, obviously UD feels, with some reason, that they are superior to DSU in football.

Why doesn't Alabama play Jacksonville State when they will play Western Carolina?

Why won't GaTech play Ga Southern when they will play many other FCS schools.

Losing to a school that is considered inferior in football is bad enough ( just ask Michigan) but losing to one in your own state would be horrible beyond beliefxnodx

As I mentioned UD and DSU are in the same division, but the concept is the same.

Not saying this is the reason, but it as likely a reason as race.

[89Hen]

Is it suppose too?? xwhistlex
No, that's my point exactly.

[89Hen]

Alright, here's my reply.
And a fine one at that. xnodx xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

Not so fast my friend, if DSU wins the MEAC or finishes with a better record than Delaware, say DSU goes 9-2 and UD goes 8-3... I bet that the committee would give Del State dibs on playing at home.
DSU could be 11-0 but if they don't get one of the four seed, they have NO chance of hosting ANYONE let alone UD.

[henfan]

Delaware doesn't want ot play DelState because DelState wants to have a home game.

Not true at all. DSU has NEVER asked for a home game. Both times UD & DSU have entered into negotiations, the deals were for 2 games in Newark. There's absolutely no reason to believe DSU wouldn't agree to two games in Newark.

[GannonFan]

Not true at all. DSU has NEVER asked for a home game. Both times UD & DSU have entered into negotiations, the deals were for 2 games in Newark. There's absolutely no reason to believe DSU wouldn't agree to two games in Newark.

Come on, henfan, you know as well as I do when the News Journal came out with their annual "why doesn't Delaware play Delaware St" piece about two years ago, the first one where Lavan opined that the reason they don't play is that Delaware is racist, that Tripp Keister of DSU (not sure of his position at the time - interim AD or something like that) was quoted as saying that DSU would like an ongoing series and with their plans for building a larger stadium in Dover, would eventually like to play Delaware there. That sounds like reason enough to make that assumption to me that DSU now would eventually want something more. And that was much more recent than the negotiations that you're referring with Collick and Nelson back in the early 80's.

[grizbeer]

from the article:


Del. State is where the scary black people congregate, where "those" types of folk go to college.

from today's news:


Two students were shot and wounded, one seriously, at Delaware State University early Friday, and the campus was locked down as police searched for a gunman, officials said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070921/ap_on_re_us/delaware_state_shooting_14;_ylt=ApIo0bAdKeWGXKL6zp aXScQE1vAI

Not that this is related or anything, but talk about your bad timing coincidences. I wonder if his editor would have allowed him to run this article, with that quote, today giving the sad news from the DSU campus today.

[henfan]

Now John I am surprised you have not done your homework on the UD - DSU baseball rivalry...This rivalry has survived because it is very competitive and is loaded with DELAWARE natives on both teams.

I did say that the reason the hardball series has developed into a rivalry is chiefly because it's been competitive. That's exactly what I said. If DSU BB was as competitive as the WBB & MBB teams were in their series with UD (i.e.- not competitive at all), the BB thing would have ended a few years ago.

It helps that DE kids are on both teams, but it's not the reason the series continues. UD traditionally and currently has few DE kids on their squad. DE has not been even close to the chief recruiting ground for UD BB. (Unfortunately, I have first hand experience with this!) OTOH, DSU has recruited DE hard in recent years and their roster is loaded with DE kids. The local angle is less important for UD than it is DSU. I'd agree that there is some mutual affection & respect between the UD and DSU BB programs. Overall, that's been good for HS baseball in the state. As you suggested, coaches like Tripp Keister, Jim Sherman, Paul Niggebrugge & Harry Van Sant have helped.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Third, I have no doubt that Delaware does not want to play Delaware St. Since we have played other HBCU's before, and therefore since race is not an issue, and since none of us are UD trustees, we'll have to speculate a different reason. IMO, the main reason is that UD has absolutely nothing to gain playing such a game. UD sells out for every game anyway, UD has complete domination of the state for fans, media, money, everything.... So with absolutely nothing to gain, the game only represents the chance to lose something. DSU has claimed they only want one game and will play it anywhere, but when this issue came up again 2-3 years ago (it comes up every year) some DSU officials were quoted that they would want to have an ongoing series and they would want games in Dover. It kinda makes the claim to only want to play one game anywhere anytime ring sort of hollow. Of course, that can't happen right now - DSU's facilities couldn't host the game and DSU lacks any credible following to get them right now.

...

DSU has a blueprint for a 20k stadium and a dream to move to FBS - certainly getting to play big bad Delaware and, on an off chance, beating them, would be a big help in getting the respectability to make those things happen. UD has to play Towson since they are conference mates, and playing schools like Albany and Lehigh, schools that on their own inertia are already at respectable levels or will be, has no impact on their fortunes. But DSU would be different, they are in UD's shadow right now. If they, on their own, continue to make their program better and get better recruits and better facilities, then eventually I'm sure UD will play them as it would be a meeting of equals. Right now, I'm sure the UD administration would feel, it would be helping DSU with no benefit whatsoever for UD.

And the last point, I don't think this game will be played right now or for the foreseeable future as I think UD is particularly annoyed at being labeled racist, including by the current DSU coach. Lavan's a very good coach for DSU, and I think he has them headed in the right way, but he called out UD as racists two years ago and he does it again in this article. That's a pretty damning allegation to make, and one that isn't easily refuted in public because I'm sure UD doesn't want to trot out with the real excuse that the don't play DSU because they don't want to be the backbone for building DSU's program up. So it puts them in an even harder position, as playing the game under those pronouncements would truly make the game a "white versus black" game complete with racial overtones. That's certainly the makings of an intense rivalry, but again, since UD has played HBCU's in the past it basically requires UD to take the public hit of being the evil "racist" university. I don't think it's surprising that UD doesn't want to be in that role. So they take the periodic slam piece in either the local paper or from apparently disgruntled alumns, and they continue on.

There are some excellent points in here, and it does highlight the real reason that Delaware doesn't want to schedule Delaware State, all reasons that have nothing to do with race.

1) Delaware is the "big dog" in the state (as well as the greater Philadelphia area) and has no desire to help grow a potential challenger to that mantle.

2) Delaware says, "Well, I can get Sister Mary Of The Poor on the schedule and still sell out Raymond Stadium, so why should I go and schedule a tough opponent?"

3) Delaware says, "Why ever schedule a road game if we know we can get a sellout at Raymond Stadium?" Delaware doesn't do FCS road games out-of-conference ever having the pants scared off of them by Lehigh in 1997. Delaware always wants that fan base to stay in Newark.

Some of these arguments tail into, you guessed it, some of the beefs that I and other Lehigh fans have had about scheduling Delaware. Ultimately, Lehigh played ball the way Delaware wanted, agreeing to one-and-done games in Newark (with a check as well, I believe). But Delaware drove a hard bargain - and since 1997, never agreed to a return game in Murray Goodman. This next part is disputed, but it is my understanding that after Lehigh beat Delaware in 1999 in Newark a return date in Murray Goodman that was cancelled by Delaware.

All these provide much-needed context to the discussion here and the hatchet job by the writer. Delaware doesn't do road games. And Delaware doesn't have a responsibility to build up Delaware State's program. That's the reason that the games aren't scheduled, not some sort of invented racism charge. Historically, maybe this comes into play, but definitely not in 2007.

Would building up Delaware State's program with Delaware's help be a bad thing for Delaware? I really don't think so at all. The Hens would lose an extra home game every year, and they would (really) help the cause of higher education in Delaware every year by scheduling the game. I really believe this. Delaware State would have one guaranteed game every other year against a team which is historically one of the best in FCS, and fans would show up for the game and it would help fund athletics there.

What this boils down to is, Delaware isn't required to help Delaware State, and nobody can make them want to help Delaware State. But maybe it would be right thing to do, at the cost of a home game every other year. Helping matters is that there is a game on the schedule (West Chester) that can easily be removed without UD fans caring at all.

Where's the popcorn?

[ChickenMan]

3) Delaware says, "Why ever schedule a road game if we know we can get a sellout at Raymond Stadium?" Delaware doesn't do FCS road games out-of-conference ever having the pants scared off of them by Lehigh in 1997. Delaware always wants that fan base to stay in Newark.

Some of these arguments tail into, you guessed it, some of the beefs that I and other Lehigh fans have had about scheduling Delaware. Ultimately, Lehigh played ball the way Delaware wanted, agreeing to one-and-done games in Newark (with a check as well, I believe). But Delaware drove a hard bargain - and since 1997, never agreed to a return game in Murray Goodman. This next part is disputed, but it is my understanding that after Lehigh beat Delaware in 1999 in Newark a return date in Murray Goodman that was cancelled by Delaware.



A 'factual' rebuttal.. UD had a home/home scheduled with YSU in '01 & '02.. YSU cancelled that contract and UD replaced YSU with another home/home vs (at the time) the best I-AA program in the nation GSU. UD now has a home/home scheduled with another pretty fair FCS program.. Furman.. starting next year. It is amazing that you perceive that Lehigh "scared the pants off UD".. but long-time I-AA powers like YSU.. GSU and Furman... don't... :p

PS.. as for the LU/UD series.. my understanding is that the problem was that UD wanted to schedule the games in early Sept.. prior to league play and LU wanted the games scheduled later in the year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A 'factual' rebuttal.. UD had a home/home scheduled with YSU in '01 & '02.. YSU cancelled that contract and UD replaced YSU with another home/home vs (at the time) the best I-AA program in the nation GSU. UD now has a home/home scheduled with another pretty fair FCS program.. Furman.. starting next year. It is amazing that you perceive that Lehigh "scared the pants off UD".. but long-time I-AA powers like YSU.. GSU and Furman... don't... :p

PS.. as for the LU/UD series.. my understanding is that the problem was that UD wanted to schedule the games in early Sept.. prior to league play and LU wanted the games scheduled later in the year.

However, Youngstown State, Georgia Southern and Furman aren't local programs that could be "bolstered" by Delaware fans invading their stadium....

[ChickenMan]

However, Youngstown State, Georgia Southern and Furman aren't local programs that could be "bolstered" by Delaware fans invading their stadium....

Lehigh could have filled half Delaware Stadium with their fans.. but regardless.. I'd still much more concerned playing either GSU or Furman... ;)

[McNeese_beat]

Dear Delaware football recruit:

On behalf of alumni across the nation, I would like to congratulate you on being recruited to play football at the University of Delaware. As you know, our Blue Hens are six-time national champions and perennially one of the top Division I-AA xrolleyesx programs in the country. We have produced dozens of NFL players, ranging from Rich Gannon and Scott Brunner to Ivory Sully and Mike Adams. With our explosive passing attack, I am confident that a wide receiver like you could thrive here.
Delaware's a I-AA xrolleyesx national power, but it won't even play its next-door neighbor.
I also have been informed, however, that you are a student of character, decency and open-mindedness. That, more than anything, is why I am writing this letter: to urge you (and your fellow recruits) not to attend my beloved university.

That's right. Say no to the Blue Hens.

Allow me to be blunt. The University of Delaware's persistent refusal to face Delaware State University in football is cowardly, pig-headed, self-righteous and, worst of all, oozing with racism.

Delaware won't play Delaware State? What a joke (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/070920&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1)

So it's not racism when Ole Miss and State refuse to play Southern Miss. And it's not racism when West Virginia won't play Marshall until the governor intervenes. But it is racism when Delaware won't play Delaware State.

What that smacks of is opportunism on the part of the writer.

Let me ask this: If that's the case, is Southern's refusal to honor the second half of its home-and-home with McNeese because of racism? I don't think so, but if you are going to pull out the race card for Delaware-Delaware State than certainly the same (il)logic can be applied to Southern-McNeese.

[GannonFan]

However, Youngstown State, Georgia Southern and Furman aren't local programs that could be "bolstered" by Delaware fans invading their stadium....

I don't think, at this point, Lehigh's fortunes can in anyway be impacted by whether or not Delaware plays at Lehigh - Lehigh's program stands on its own and is well positioned and successful. We don't play Lehigh at Lehigh for two reasons - we don't have to, and for the aforementioned not wanting to play late in the year (although that may no longer be the impediment it once was since Lehigh has played people like nova early in the year now - maybe it was true in the late 90's though).

No doubt, the current view of the UD administration is to play home games when possible, continue to play the elite of FCS in home and homes (Youngstown, Georgia Southern, Furman come to mind), and play a FBS from time to time (Navy and Maryland right now). Delaware knows they can get semi-local teams to play at Delaware only and of course they pursue that - Albany, Holy Cross, Lehigh, Monmouth, New Hampshire and Hofstra when they weren't on the conference schedule. For teams even further, like South Dakota St, UD is getting a 2 for 1 deal - one trip to Brookings for 2 games in Newark. Pretty good position to be in if you can get it. When the goal is to make the playoffs, there's no reason to not do all you can to make it, and playing home games helps.

btw, I'm all in favor of a game at Lehigh since I'm much closer the Bethlehem than to Newark but, alas, I was overruled. :p

[MSUBear42]

Prayers to anyone/everyone hurt.

[89Hen]

3) Delaware says, "Why ever schedule a road game if we know we can get a sellout at Raymond Stadium?" Delaware doesn't do FCS road games out-of-conference ever having the pants scared off of them by Lehigh in 1997. Delaware always wants that fan base to stay in Newark.

Some of these arguments tail into, you guessed it, some of the beefs that I and other Lehigh fans have had about scheduling Delaware. Ultimately, Lehigh played ball the way Delaware wanted, agreeing to one-and-done games in Newark (with a check as well, I believe). But Delaware drove a hard bargain - and since 1997, never agreed to a return game in Murray Goodman. This next part is disputed, but it is my understanding that after Lehigh beat Delaware in 1999 in Newark a return date in Murray Goodman that was cancelled by Delaware.
As others pointed out, you are wrong on your facts about UD home and homes (people forgot to mention that we're actually going all the way to South Dakota coming up)... so it would also reason that you're wrong on your facts surrounding the UD/LU series.... you're at least correct that it's disputed. xsmiley_wix It is MY understanding that after the last game with Lehigh, the Engineers wanted to do home and homes, but only in late October or November. UD wanted any game at Goodman to be in September... you know, the normal time to play OOC games away from home (Navy not withstanding because they get to say when we play them).

[89Hen]

Prayers to anyone/everyone hurt.
No animals were hurt during the making of this thread.

[eaglesrthe1]

UD sells out no matter who they bring in.

Yep, increased attendance for UD isn't a valid reason.

The UD admin probably feels like scheduling a game now would be like folding to pressure and admitting that racism was a factor all along. They can't admit that, now can they?

[bison137]

The Hens have a long tradition of ducking teams :)

"On Nov. 22, 1963, the nation was shocked and paralyzed by the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Th e Bucknell campus mourned with the rest of the world, and the football game scheduled at home the next day with the University of Delaware was postponed....

A victory would give Bucknell a tie with Delaware for the Middle Atlantic Conference University Division championship. The Blue Hens were 8-0 overall and ranked fi rst in the national small college polls conducted by both the Associated Press and United Press International. Interest in the game was at an all-time high on campus, in Lewisburg and the surrounding area, and the media almost certainly would have overflowed Memorial Stadium’s press facilities. A sellout was a distinct possibility.

And then the shots rang out in Dealey Plaza. We watched a president take the oath of office on an airplane. We cried. We saw Jack Ruby make a shambles of any pretense of security. We cried again as a young boy saluted his father and the funeral procession moved slowly down Pennsylvania Avenue. We talked about what had happened and tried to get back to some semblance of “normalcy.”

That included trying to reschedule the football game for the following weekend (Delaware said no), Thanksgiving Day (Delaware said no), or at a neutral site (Delaware said no).

The game that might have brought Bucknell its first MAC crown and one of the largest home crowds in history was never played.

Delaware finished the season undefeated with its 8-0 record. UPI kept the Blue Hens at the top of their poll and awarded them a national championship plaque. AP, though, asked questions about why the game wasn’t played, and learning of the Blue Hens’ intransigence, dropped Delaware to second in its final ranking."


LINK: Delaware backs into 1963 MAC Title by refusing to reschedule game (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/buck/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/2006FBMG98-132.pdf)

[89Hen]

Yep, increased attendance for UD isn't a valid reason.

The UD admin probably feels like scheduling a game now would be like folding to pressure and admitting that racism was a factor all along. They can't admit that, now can they?
xnodx at least to the folding to pressure part.

[89Hen]

The Hens have a long tradition of ducking teams :)
xcoffeex Grain of salt... written in a Bucknell publication probably 40 years after the events. :p

[henfan]

Come on, henfan, you know as well as I do when the News Journal came out with their annual "why doesn't Delaware play Delaware St" piece about two years ago, the first one where Lavan opined that the reason they don't play is that Delaware is racist, that Tripp Keister of DSU (not sure of his position at the time - interim AD or something like that) was quoted as saying that DSU would like an ongoing series and with their plans for building a larger stadium in Dover, would eventually like to play Delaware there. That sounds like reason enough to make that assumption to me that DSU now would eventually want something more.

Oh, cut the BS, GF.

I'll repeat. Whenever UD and DSU have negotiated for football games, DSU has NEVER requested a home game. NEVER. That comment is based not on speculation or some fan's memory of something he might have read in a newspaper article two years ago, but conversations I've had directly with the people who were involved in both sets of negotiations- two DSU ADs.

Despite requests & informal discussions, UD has refused to even negotiate with DSU since the late 1980s. There have been no further negotiations. Comprende? So, don't pretend for a second that the possibility of DSU requesting a home game is the barrier to getting this done. It's not location or money that's kept the two teams apart. The only impediment to UD and DSU meeting at this point in time is UD's refusal to even open discussions. Chuck Bell in 2006 approached Edgar Johnson about a game & he refused to even talk about it. Bill Collick through the '90s tried to get UD to do a deal and finally got tired of begging. (This according to Bill himself in my December & November '99 conversations with him.)

BTW, I've never heard that Tripp Keister (former DSU assoc. AD for development) was involved in negotiations between UD and DSU for a FB game. I've also never heard or read that Tripp said DSU would demand that UD come to Dover as part of any deal. Please clarify.

[henfan]

The Hens have a long tradition of ducking teams

Coincidentally, UD and DSU were involved in negotiations through 1979 into early 1980 for two games in Newark during the 1983 & 1984 seasons. The UD Board of Trustees got involved and inexplicably nixed the deal, despite a follow up reconsideration request from DSU president Mishoe in Jan '80.

Guess who the Hens scheduled instead? Yup, Bucknell.xlolx

[bkrownd]

DSU 35
UD 24

when is kickoff? ;)

[Seahawks Fan]

henfan seems to know what he is talking about. It's time to schedule this game.

[GannonFan]

I've also never heard or read that Tripp said DSU would demand that UD come to Dover as part of any deal. Please clarify.

Hey, if you choose to forget then that's your problem. We had this same very discussion when that article came out in the News Journal 2 years ago and the biggest point that came out in that article was the idea on the DSU side that they would want to eventually host a game in Dover. It was a significant comment and one that launched quite a many threads. Ignore it if you want to, but it was said and it was in print.

You're right, though, that there haven't been any negotiations. And I don't see that changing in the current climate anyway. UD has now been called racist in the press twice over the past 2-3 years directly by DSU - that's not going to all of a sudden make UD want to play the game. On the contrary, that's going to entrench them further. If UD played now, it would explicitly imply that racism was the factor and UD would enter the game as the "lilly-white" racists that Pearlman said they are going against the discriminated against minorities from DSU. Talk about a no-win scenario. An article like this actually has the reverse effect of its intention - this game isn't going to be scheduled for years now as there's no way UD wants to play the game under a heated racial cloud. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if UD won't play DSU as long as Lavan is at DSU - calling people racists through the papers isn't a way to break the ice. Heck, Penn St refused to play Pitt anymore just because Joe Pa didn't like Jackie Sherill and I don't think Sherrill ever libeled Joe Pa in the press.

UD and DSU could play in the playoffs, and that could happen this year. But UD and DSU probably won't face each other in the regular season for at least the foreseable next 5-6 years, if not more.

[Jaxhen]

I guess if UD is racist because they only have 6.1% of their student population listed as black, non-hispanic, most of the rest of the CAA are apparently also racist using Mr. Pearlman's logic:

Percentage of Student Population (black, non-hispanic):

Towson - 12%
Hofstra - 10%
William & Mary - 7%
Delaware - 6.1%
Northeastern - 6.1%
Richmond - 5%
Rhode Island - 4.5%
Massachusetts - 4.5%
James Madison - 4%
Villanova - 3%
New Hampshire - 1.2%
Maine 0.9%

Of course, Maine and New Hampshire have a much lower percentage of blacks, non-hispanic, in the general population, but those details would probably be ignored by Mr. Pearlman.

[hornetsrhorrible]

evidenced by this thread i would say there is interest in this game! i stand by my belief that this game would be good for delaware(the state of) hs football, giving kids a lively instate college game to aspire playing in. god knows delaware hs football needs all the help it can get! ultimately(disclouser:i am now a virginia res though a native of delaware and an alumni of dsu.) i dont care what the alumni in eww jersey, penciltuckey, murkyland and new pork think!(spoken like a true downstater!):D this game would benefit delawareans by offering entertainment value, economic value and even would help as a recruiting tool for instate students (i know those schools could care less about localsxrolleyesx)and should be played.
i will concede that lavan spewing that ud is racist is not productive and will not produce the desired reaction from ud. add the fact that dsu is almost 50% non african american and the arguement holds little value(discloser: i am caucasian and am offended by lavans comments and feel he should have been more diplomatic and showed little knowledge of what i believe to be a bigger "minor" issue, upstate prejudice against lower delaware. i dont mean racial prejudice but regional. if you live or have lived in delaware you will understand what i mean by that comment)

[henfan]

Hey, if you choose to forget then that's your problem.

No, the lack of evidence for a comment you say was made would be your problem. All I'm asking is for you to back up with an actual reference. You brought it up, so prove it. If you can't, that's fine too. We can take your comment FWIW. I'm willing to recant if I can see the actual reference.


Hey, if you choose to forget then that's your
You're right, though, that there haven't been any negotiations. And I don't see that changing in the current climate anyway. UD has now been called racist in the press twice over the past 2-3 years directly by DSU - that's not going to all of a sudden make UD want to play the game.

There never seems to be a dearth of excuses where UD's concerned. But "they called us names" is one of the lamest excuses I've heard yet. Looks like the old "they aren't competitive", "there's no room on our schedule" excuses must be getting tired. xnodx

[GannonFan]

I'm not chosing to forget. All I'm asking is for you to back up an assertion you made, not from memory, but with an actual reference. You brought it up, so prove it. If you can't, that's fine too. We can take your comment FWIW.



There never seems to be a dearth of excuses where UD's concerned. But "they called us names" is one of the lamest excuses I've heard yet. Looks like the old "they aren't competitive", "there's no room on our schedule" excuses must be getting tired. xnodx

It's two years ago on the News Journal site - I don't have access to it (which you know) so it remains there. I'll take your sudden lack of memory FWIW as well. xrolleyesx

You've always known the reason UD doesn't play DSU (they don't want to help build a program right in their own backyard) but you jump on Pearlman's article and will gladly accept/look past Pearlman's baseless claim that UD is racist, just because he champions playing DSU, something you've always wanted. Hey, more power to you, but that's a tough association to make just because he agrees with you that the game should be played. xpeacex

[henfan]

It's two years ago on the News Journal site - I don't have access to it (which you know) so it remains there.

My wife accuses me of having a selective memory and now I've got to hear it from you too, GF. Come on! xoopsx xlolx

[Menudo]

Wow, how refreshing, a struggling freelance writer comes up with a story that will stir the racial-tension pot with this "Jena 6" nonsense on the frontpage! The UD administration MIGHT be the most racist, hate-filled people alive, but I have a feeling that race is not the reason this game does not take place...

NOTE TO READERS: I call the "Jena 6" issue 'nonsense' because I strongly feel that this particular case is not the one that the civil rights activists should have picked to make a stand. Let's not forget these 6 "poor kind-hearted young men" beat the ***** out of a guy in a 6 vs. 1 fight...not exactly guys that I would be demanding 'freedom' for.xcoffeex This is not to say that there aren't some racist bastard whites in this tiny little town.

It's the perfect example. It clearly shows the disconnect of how blacks are treated by the judicial system. Do i think they should be punished
"YES" do I think they deserve life in prison" NO". The kid that was beaten so badly, he attended an event that night.

[GannonFan]

My wife accuses me of having a selective memory and now I've got to hear it from you too, GF. Come on! xoopsx xlolx

You're all for the "call 'em like you see 'em" approach so I didn't think you'd mind! xlolx xlolx xlolx :p xpeacex

[henfan]

You're all for the "call 'em like you see 'em" approach so I didn't think you'd mind! xlolx xlolx xlolx :p xpeacex

Yeah, that's what she said too.xsmhx

[slycat]

play the game. seems weird to me state schools wouldnt play each other. and the argument that "dsu used to be as good as a d2 so we might as well schedule a d2" is a joke as well. atleast dsu would count toward the playoffs.

[eaglesrthe1]

As others pointed out, you are wrong on your facts about UD home and homes (people forgot to mention that we're actually going all the way to South Dakota coming up)... so it would also reason that you're wrong on your facts surrounding the UD/LU series.... you're at least correct that it's disputed. xsmiley_wix It is MY understanding that after the last game with Lehigh, the Engineers wanted to do home and homes, but only in late October or November. UD wanted any game at Goodman to be in September... you know, the normal time to play OOC games away from home (Navy not withstanding because they get to say when we play them).


Yep, DSU wanting a home and home is not a valid reason for UD to not schedule the game.

I think they said something along the lines of anytime, anyplace?

[BlueHen86]

Yep, DSU wanting a home and home is not a valid reason for UD to not schedule the game.

I think they said something along the lines of anytime, anyplace?

Do you have a link?

[eaglesrthe1]

Do you have a link?


Yeah, the very first post in this thread.xreadx

[bison137]

xcoffeex Grain of salt... written in a Bucknell publication probably 40 years after the events. :p


Originally published in many papers in the East at the time it happened. UD was offered every possible date and venue but opted to back into the title. Many were happy when UPI yanked their #1 ranking away for doing it.

[eaglesrthe1]

Originally published in many papers in the East at the time it happened. UD was offered every possible date and venue but opted to back into the title. Many were happy when UPI yanked their #1 ranking away for doing it.


Maybe lacking of cajones, but still smart. I can't say what they are doing on this issue is smacking of intelligence, tho.

[Go...gate]

Sounds like it is more of a pain in the backside for UD not to play DSU than it is to play them a couple times....

[Tod]

Sounds like it is more of a pain in the backside for UD not to play DSU than it is to play them a couple times....

xnodx xnodx xnodx

[BlueHen86]

Yeah, the very first post in this thread.xreadxThat has been disputed by other posts on this thread. Do you have anything new to add, or are you just parroting what you read here?

[BDKJMU]

I think this story could play out for a lot of other states.

Take Virginia for example. When's the last time that JMU, Richmond, William & Mary, etc. scheduled an HBCU within the state?

I would LOVE to take VMI off the schedule and add Hampton or Norfolk State.

IMO we don't schedule them enough and I don't know why. It can't be travel costs or that we're booked.

I honestly don't know about the other schools in the state, but I think a Hampton-JMU home and home makes sense. And ODU BETTER play one of those two schools yearly.

Mcveyrl, there's 7 I-AAs in VA (soon to be 8 with ODU). UR, W&M, and JMU have all played Hampton in the regular season in the last 6-8 years. Not sure about VMI or Liberty, or how many have played Norfolk State. Hampton and Norfolk State moved from D-II to I-AA in I think it was around 97' or 98'. There is no comparison to the state of Delaware with this because UD and DSU are the ONLY 2 Div I schools in the state.

[BDKJMU]

DSU has said in the past they will accept a game in Newark with no return game. They know they don't have a place to hold the game. Keep in mind that UD and DSU are only 45 minutes apart, so all 22,000 that normally go to Newark would also most likely go to Dover.

Keep in mind also that UD sells out every game these days and none of our opponents bring more than 1,000... and that's even rare. We can't fit any more in our stadium either.

I know UD's listed stadium capacity a few years ago was 22k (I have all the CAA schools written down). Is it still 22k? maybe 23 overflow? The game could be played in Newark each year, and it could be mandated that DSU receive the # of tickets that their home fans normally get for a home game. What is that, 6500-500? Say 6k tickets would have to go to DSU, leaving 16-17k for UD.

[BDKJMU]

Not so fast my friend, if DSU wins the MEAC or finishes with a better record than Delaware, say DSU goes 9-2 and UD goes 8-3... I bet that the committee would give Del State dibs on playing at home.

Nope, only the 4 seeded teams are guaranteed home games. After that, it goes to who puts up a bigger $ bid, who has the bigger stadium, better facilities. Only way DSU would get a home playoff game vs UD would be if they were 11-0 and got a seed (as Hampton did in 05', hosting UR. UR won 38-10 if memory serves me correct). 10-1 DSU wouldn't get a seed, and maybe not even 11-0 due to SOS (MEAC and OOC schedule).

[BDKJMU]

1

[89Hen]

henfan seems to know what he is talking about. It's time to schedule this game.
henfan has been one of the more vocal advocates of this game. xnodx He even had his mug in the newspaper in DE regarding this. xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

evidenced by this thread i would say there is interest in this game!
xconfusedx So far there is a total of one Hen fan that is for this game by my count.

[89Hen]

seems weird to me state schools wouldnt play each other.
No doubt that from 1500 miles away it would seem weird... from 150 miles away now and 20 miles away growing up it doesn't to me. xpeacex

[89Hen]

Yeah, the very first post in this thread.xreadx
xconfusedx This was an opinion piece.

[89Hen]

Originally published in many papers in the East at the time it happened. UD was offered every possible date and venue but opted to back into the title.
Find me some more then. xcoffeex

[89Hen]

Sounds like it is more of a pain in the backside for UD not to play DSU than it is to play them a couple times....
xconfusedx How so? A couple articles written by amateur writers... where's the pain?

[Jaxhen]

For Mr. Pearlman to make the gigantic leap that UD is racist because UD has never played Delaware State in football is irresponsible journalism. He offers no concrete proof to support his view other than his presumption that he knows the motives of UD's administrators. What is factual is this:

1. UD has played Delaware State in other sports (baseball, basketball, etc.). If racism was the reason, why would UD play them in other sports. This doesn't make any sense.

2. UD has played other HBCUs. If the reason was racism, why would UD play other HBCUs. Again, this doesn't make any sense.

3. UD's last two basketball coaches have been black (something you surely wouldn't expect if UD was racist), and the administration stuck with David Henderson a lot longer than one would expect considering the downward spiral of the program under Henderson's reign. It certainly wasn't the case of tolerating him because the program was winning.

4. UD has had black assistant coaches for a number of years, and has three on its current staff.

5. UD has had black football players going back to the early 1960s at least.

6. UD has the 4th highest percentage of black, non-hispanic, students of all the CAA schools.

7. UD has two black members on its Board of Regents. Don't you think we would know about it if there was any behind the doors good old boy discussions that even had the slightest hint of racism.

Academic and cultural snobbery or elitism, maybe, which doesn't make it right, but racism, I doubt it. UD has always looked upon itself as superior to Delaware State both academically and athletically in football. Some of you may recall Portland State beating Delaware State in 1980 by a score of 105 - 0. This was a source of great embarassment to the State of Delaware, and I even remember having to inform several of my out-of-state friends that it was not UD who suffered that humiliating defeat as some mistakenly had thought. I just think for a longtime UD did not want to associate itself in anyway with such an embarassing program. Also, UD had everything to lose and nothing to gain by playing them. Now that Delaware State is a respectable program, I think we should play them, if for nothing else than to put these ridiculous accusations to rest. Of course, now UD has a dilemna. If they schedule them now in response to these accusations, it may appear to some as some sort of admission that the allegations have merit.

[BlueHen86]

For Mr. Pearlman to make the gigantic leap that UD is racist because UD has never played Delaware State in football is irresponsible journalism. He offers no concrete proof to support his view other than his presumption that he knows the motives of UD's administrators. What is factual is this:

1. UD has played Delaware State in other sports (baseball, basketball, etc.). If racism was the reason, why would UD play them in other sports. This doesn't make any sense.

2. UD has played other HBCUs. If the reason was racism, why would UD play other HBCUs. Again, this doesn't make any sense.

3. UD's last two basketball coaches have been black (something you surely wouldn't expect if UD was racist), and the administration stuck with David Henderson a lot longer than one would expect considering the downward spiral of the program under Henderson's reign. It certainly wasn't the case of tolerating him because the program was winning.

4. UD has had black assistant coaches for a number of years, and has three on its current staff.

5. UD has had black football players going back to the early 1960s at least.

6. UD has the 4th highest percentage of black, non-hispanic, students of all the CAA schools.

7. UD has two black members on its Board of Regents. Don't you think we would know about it if there was any behind the doors good old boy discussions that even had the slightest hint of racism.

Academic and cultural snobbery or elitism, maybe, which doesn't make it right, but racism, I doubt it. UD has always looked upon itself as superior to Delaware State both academically and athletically in football. Some of you may recall Portland State beating Delaware State in 1980 by a score of 105 - 0. This was a source of great embarassment to the State of Delaware, and I even remember having to inform several of my out-of-state friends that it was not UD who suffered that humiliating defeat as some mistakenly had thought. I just think for a longtime UD did not want to associate itself in anyway with such an embarassing program. Also, UD had everything to lose and nothing to gain by playing them. Now that Delaware State is a respectable program, I think we should play them, if for nothing else than to put these ridiculous accusations to rest. Of course, now UD has a dilemna. If they schedule them now in response to these accusations, it may appear to some as some sort of admission that the allegations have merit.
Excellent post.

[Go...gate]

xconfusedx How so? A couple articles written by amateur writers... where's the pain?

Well, no pain, we're talking about football scheduling here. But it really seems like there is a real aversion for any football match-up at all. And I don't live there either (though NJ is not very far), so I'm sure I don't know all the backstory, but the match-up seems like a natural.

[89Hen]

I know UD's listed stadium capacity a few years ago was 22k (I have all the CAA schools written down). Is it still 22k? maybe 23 overflow? The game could be played in Newark each year, and it could be mandated that DSU receive the # of tickets that their home fans normally get for a home game. What is that, 6500-500? Say 6k tickets would have to go to DSU, leaving 16-17k for UD.
xconfusedx UD sells out every game with no more than 1k going to the visiting team, why would we give DSU 6k?

[pantherfan]

For Mr. Pearlman to make the gigantic leap that UD is racist because UD has never played Delaware State in football is irresponsible journalism. He offers no concrete proof to support his view other than his presumption that he knows the motives of UD's administrators. What is factual is this:

1. UD has played Delaware State in other sports (baseball, basketball, etc.). If racism was the reason, why would UD play them in other sports. This doesn't make any sense.

2. UD has played other HBCUs. If the reason was racism, why would UD play other HBCUs. Again, this doesn't make any sense.

3. UD's last two basketball coaches have been black (something you surely wouldn't expect if UD was racist), and the administration stuck with David Henderson a lot longer than one would expect considering the downward spiral of the program under Henderson's reign. It certainly wasn't the case of tolerating him because the program was winning.

4. UD has had black assistant coaches for a number of years, and has three on its current staff.

5. UD has had black football players going back to the early 1960s at least.

6. UD has the 4th highest percentage of black, non-hispanic, students of all the CAA schools.

7. UD has two black members on its Board of Regents. Don't you think we would know about it if there was any behind the doors good old boy discussions that even had the slightest hint of racism.

Academic and cultural snobbery or elitism, maybe, which doesn't make it right, but racism, I doubt it. UD has always looked upon itself as superior to Delaware State both academically and athletically in football. Some of you may recall Portland State beating Delaware State in 1980 by a score of 105 - 0. This was a source of great embarassment to the State of Delaware, and I even remember having to inform several of my out-of-state friends that it was not UD who suffered that humiliating defeat as some mistakenly had thought. I just think for a longtime UD did not want to associate itself in anyway with such an embarassing program. Also, UD had everything to lose and nothing to gain by playing them. Now that Delaware State is a respectable program, I think we should play them, if for nothing else than to put these ridiculous accusations to rest. Of course, now UD has a dilemna. If they schedule them now in response to these accusations, it may appear to some as some sort of admission that the allegations have merit.

Stop making so much sense with posts like this...xbowx

[BDKJMU]

xconfusedx UD sells out every game with no more than 1k going to the visiting team, why would we give DSU 6k?

As a condition with any series with DSU all games being played in Newark as opposed to a one & one or even a one in Dover vs 2 games in Newark.

[89Hen]

As a condition with any series with DSU all games being played in Newark as opposed to a one & one or even a one in Dover vs 2 games in Newark.
Again... why would we do that?

[skinny_uncle]

Why does this sound so much like why Illini hoops fans trying to explain why they don't want to play SIU a basketball game?

[kardplayer]

You've always known the reason UD doesn't play DSU (they don't want to help build a program right in their own backyard) ...

Sounds like UD is acting monopolistic... maybe the governor should step in and force them to play...
:D :D :D

[kardplayer]

Mcveyrl, there's 7 I-AAs in VA (soon to be 8 with ODU). UR, W&M, and JMU have all played Hampton in the regular season in the last 6-8 years. Not sure about VMI or Liberty, or how many have played Norfolk State. Hampton and Norfolk State moved from D-II to I-AA in I think it was around 97' or 98'. There is no comparison to the state of Delaware with this because UD and DSU are the ONLY 2 Div I schools in the state.

Liberty (4x) and VMI (2x) have both played Norfolk State since they joined I-AA/FCS, W&M played them 2x also ('77 and' 85). Richmond and JMU haven't played them.

[GannonFan]

Sounds like UD is acting monopolistic... maybe the governor should step in and force them to play...
:D :D :D

Absolutely UD is acting that way - I don't think you'd get a smidgen of argument about that. If Wesley all of sudden transitioned from DIII to FCS we wouldn't play them either. But is it racist? Well, only if you want to smear people it is. xsmhx

[brownbear]

Why does this sound so much like why Illini hoops fans trying to explain why they don't want to play SIU a basketball game?

You would think that the two would play especially with Bruce Weber being a former SIU coach.

[RadMann]

xdeadhorsex

[eaglesrthe1]

xconfusedx This was an opinion piece.

I never said that it wasn't. I just refered to the opinion piece when I was prompted to provide a link to support the anytime-anyplace angle.


"Name the place and the day, and we'll be there," Rick Costello, Delaware State's athletic director, told me recently. "

[BlueHen86]

I never said that it wasn't. I just refered to the opinion piece when I was prompted to provide a link to support the anytime-anyplace angle.
Except that you repeated a statement ( a disputed statement) from this opinion piece as if it were fact.

[UDChE89]

Here's what I posted on the ESPN site regarding this issue. I've thought about it more and it still doesn't change my opinion. I live in Dover and I don't think the local paper here agitates for the game annually as the News Journal seems. I also hear no groundswell that wants the game.

"As you can tell by my name, I'm a UD grad (Class of '89). I'll come at it from a different perspective. Most of the students at UD couldn't tell you where DSU is. They don't really care about a rivalry with DSU. Why's that? Not because it's an HBCU, but because they're not from Delaware. I grew up in CT and didn't care that UD and DSU didn't play. I wanted them to play UNH, UConn, UMass, URI, and other schools that I knew and might have applied to. Now that UD's drawing more students from out of state than instate (as a cousin of mine told me last year, UD was the "in" choice for kids from NJ), they'd rather see their school play schools where their high school friends go. In all likelihood, that isn't DSU.

While I hate the WCU game as well, I'm not sure that replacing it with DSU is the way I want to go. Yes, it could be legislated by the state but that doesn't mean that the students and alumni are going to want it. I'd rather see us play Georgia Southern again or Furman (as we will again in 2008)... even better would be Montana. They're schools that with a home and home could make up for the gate receipts that we would lose for not having that home game.

See, in the long run, it's all about money. Even with a 3/1 UD/DSU split, as I've heard proposed, UD still comes out on the short end. When you can place 22K butts in the seats regardless of who you play, giving up a home game means a loss of money.
"

[Sam Adams]

Completely refusing to play DSU seems lame.

Maybe the rationalizations work for you if you went to UD, but honestly to the rest of FCS it looks like UD is just snobby and wants to duck DSU because DSU might just kick UD's butt. This in combination insisting on maintaining the ridiculous tradition if killing westchester ever frikken year is really pathetic. Wake up UD.

[RadMann]

"Snobby", "pathetic", "ridiculous" ... You have a vivid imagination and way too much time on your hands Sam Adams...

[Sam Adams]

Just calling it like I see it. If UD wants to change that perception play DSU instead of D2 Westchester. If UD continues to flatly refuse to schedule DSU then people outside of UD nation are going to continue have that perception regardless of whether UD fans think its wrong.

I readily admit that I would enjoy watching UD lose to DSU and so would pretty much everybody else outside of UD.

[RadMann]

Why would Duke play DSU?

[Sam Adams]

Why would Duke play DSU?

oops sorry did i get your precious little abbreviation backwards? xlolx

[RadMann]

No, it is just not Delaware University, just like UMass is not Massachusetts University... Pretty basic stuff there guy...

[eaglesrthe1]

Except that you repeated a statement ( a disputed statement) from this opinion piece as if it were fact.


About the only person that could reliably dispute it would be the person who he was quoting, unless there is reliable information that this guy is a complete liar.
How does a third party dispute a conversation between two other individuals?

[Sam Adams]

Whateva ace, just keep refusing to play DSU...

[BlueHen86]

About the only person that could reliably dispute it would be the person who he was quoting, unless there is reliable information that this guy is a complete liar.
How does a third party dispute a conversation between two other individuals?

The same way a third party - YOU - can repeat a statement from a conversation between two other people.


Yep, DSU wanting a home and home is not a valid reason for UD to not schedule the game.

I think they said something along the lines of anytime, anyplace?


Can you support this statement or not?

[hornetsrhorrible]

well its clear to me that ud'rs dont want this game. unfortunatly they would rather play games against schools that are from their(students) home states. once again ud could do the right thing and schedule dsu, it would be good for the state of delaware but ud is a private (till they need money from the lowly downstaters in the forms of tax revenue then all of a sudden they are "delaware's public u) university and if the hordes of out of staters that go there and went there dont want the game, so be it. dsu is now doing a better job of of recruiting delaware students than in the past(not that its a great # but its getting better). hopefully if they can get a large in state student body the drum will be too loud for the "university of southeastern pa and southwestern nj to ignore!:D

[ChickenMan]

I readily admit that I would enjoy watching UD lose to DSU and so would pretty much everybody else outside of UD.

It's hardly surprising that a fan of a school that is a woeful 5-22 vs UD would like to see DSU or anyone whip the Hens.. but I understand.. if you can't do it yourself.. hope somebody else can do it for you... :) :D xlolx

[eaglesrthe1]

The same way a third party - YOU - can repeat a statement from a conversation between two other people.



Can you support this statement or not?

Well, this will be my last post on this line of reasoning that you hold onto.
A third party can't refute a statement between two other individuals, unless they were present for every single conversation that the other two ever had with each other.

You could be privy to every conversation that I hold with someone else for the next year, but wouldn't have a clue what was said the very next time we spoke to each other when you weren't present.

All I supported it with was a direct quote. What you want is a tape recording. Sorry, I can't help you out here.xrolleyesx

[BlueHen86]

Well, this will be my last post on this line of reasoning that you hold onto.
A third party can't refute a statement between two other individuals, unless they were present for every single conversation that the other two ever had with each other.

You could be privy to every conversation that I hold with someone else for the next year, but wouldn't have a clue what was said the very next time we spoke to each other when you weren't present.

All I supported it with was a direct quote. What you want is a tape recording. Sorry, I can't help you out here.xrolleyesx

Your statement was that UD should play Del St because Del St said "anytime, anyplace". That is clearly a bravado statement that no reasonable person would take at face value. Also, that statement is disputed because there are also rumors that Del St would eventually want games in Dover.

[R.A.]

Nope, only the 4 seeded teams are guaranteed home games. After that, it goes to who puts up a bigger $ bid, who has the bigger stadium, better facilities. Only way DSU would get a home playoff game vs UD would be if they were 11-0 and got a seed (as Hampton did in 05', hosting UR. UR won 38-10 if memory serves me correct). 10-1 DSU wouldn't get a seed, and maybe not even 11-0 due to SOS (MEAC and OOC schedule).


What was Hampton's seed last season when they hosted UNH

[DelState05]

I ran across this atrical on espn and was curious what all you guys think bout the whole UD not playing Del State issue.http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/070920&sportCat=ncf

[andy7171]

Do we really have to bring this up every week?

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Discussed at length over here...

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29599

[89Hen]

I ran across this atrical on espn and was curious what all you guys think bout the whole UD not playing Del State issue.http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/070920&sportCat=ncf

Here's the discussion...

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29599

[DelState05]

Im sorry im new to the fourm and didnt know you guys talked bout it already.

[Cap'n Cat]

Shoot, even Cap'n Cat and Northern Iowa played Delaware State!!!!


UNI 37
DSU 17

1985, Cap'n Cat's senior season

[MR. CHICKEN]

WHAA...DID DUH CHICKEN CROSS DUH ROAD?.........MAYBEAH....TA AVOID......DELAWARE STATE.............:o.....BRAWK/OMAR15TDS&RISIN'.AWQ!

[89Hen]

Shoot, even Cap'n Cat and Northern Iowa played Delaware State!!!!

UNI 37
DSU 17
Figured you may as well get the easy win in the state? :p

[GannonFan]

Figured you may as well get the easy win in the state? :p

Apparently there was no snow that day!!! :p :p :p :p

http://www.udel.edu/sportsinfo/football/jenkins-12-6-03.gif

OMG it's cold - where's our dome???? Let's let him score so we can get over to the sidelines and those heaters!!!!! BRRRRRRRRR!

[bluehenbillk]

Hopefully DSU can find their way into the playoffs for the 1st time ever this year & the NCAA will take care of things sooner than 2012. Of course if they lose to Hampton this week it's pretty much a moot point.

[henfan]

Well, SCSU might have something to say about that. DSU has a lot more winning to do than simply beating Hampton (see the 2004 season.)

[R.A.]

Hopefully DSU can find their way into the playoffs for the 1st time ever this year & the NCAA will take care of things sooner than 2012. Of course if they lose to Hampton this week it's pretty much a moot point.


xlolx

So, what now?

xlolx xlolx

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Still a long way to go, but this game looks more and more likely every week. xthumbsupx

[AGSPoll]

VERY important update to this story and this falls under the "I TOLD YOU SO" category...

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070930/SPORTS07/709300359/1002/SPORTS

Costello said when he does meet with Johnson after the season regarding a matchup, the Hornets won't settle for a one-game deal. He said DSU would be interested only in a contract for a home-and-home series against Delaware, which means the Blue Hens would have to play at Alumni Stadium, which seats just 6,800.

"We'll play anywhere, any place and anytime," Costello said. "But it would have to be a fair and equitable situation."

IF that's the stance they're going to take and keep, I will tell you that this game will NEVER happen.

[89Hen]

Important update to this story that falls under the "I TOLD YOU SO" category.

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070930/SPORTS07/709300359/1002/SPORTS

Costello said when he does meet with Johnson after the season regarding a matchup, the Hornets won't settle for a one-game deal. He said DSU would be interested only in a contract for a home-and-home series against Delaware, which means the Blue Hens would have to play at Alumni Stadium, which seats just 6,800.

"We'll play anywhere, any place and anytime," Costello said. "But it would have to be a fair and equitable situation."

This game will never take place if that's the stance DSU is going to take.

[OL FU]

As the season progresses, it is looking more and more like we may get this gamexthumbsupx

[YoUDeeMan]

Your statement was that UD should play Del St because Del St said "anytime, anyplace". That is clearly a bravado statement that no reasonable person would take at face value. Also, that statement is disputed because there are also rumors that Del St would eventually want games in Dover.

No more rumors. xlolx It is in writing (again). xrulesx

And in 6 more days, when the News Journal puts the above article into their archives, there will again be denials that the DSU folks ever asked for a home game. xrolleyesx

[Blue Hen Nation]

B O R I N G !

[89Hen]

As the season progresses, it is looking more and more like we may get this gamexthumbsupx
I hope so. I heard the DelSt score as I was driving up within sight of Delaware Stadium and gave out a loud 'Woo Hoo'. xnodx I would love to see DSU come to Newark for a playoff game.

[HIU 93]

Important update to this story that falls under the "I TOLD YOU SO" category.

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070930/SPORTS07/709300359/1002/SPORTS

Costello said when he does meet with Johnson after the season regarding a matchup, the Hornets won't settle for a one-game deal. He said DSU would be interested only in a contract for a home-and-home series against Delaware, which means the Blue Hens would have to play at Alumni Stadium, which seats just 6,800.

"We'll play anywhere, any place and anytime," Costello said. "But it would have to be a fair and equitable situation."

This game will never take place if that's the stance DSU is going to take.


Why shouldn't they ask for a home game in return? It's amazing how UD expects DSU to just bend over and grab their ankles for them. If that's the attitude that UD is taking, I hope y'all don't play.

[HIU 93]

As the season progresses, it is looking more and more like we may get this gamexthumbsupx

They still have to play SCSU and we still have to play SCSU. It ain't hardly over, yet.

[89Hen]

Why shouldn't they ask for a home game in return? It's amazing how UD expects DSU to just bend over and grab their ankles for them. If that's the attitude that UD is taking, I hope y'all don't play.
You serious? We have 4000+ more season ticket holders than they have seats. They cannot host this game, period.

[OL FU]

They still have to play SCSU and we still have to play SCSU. It ain't hardly over, yet.

I know. I am pulling for the Bulldogsxnodx

[BlueHen86]

Why shouldn't they ask for a home game in return? It's amazing how UD expects DSU to just bend over and grab their ankles for them. If that's the attitude that UD is taking, I hope y'all don't play.
DSU has every right to ask for a home game.
UD has every right to say no.
It doesn't work financially for UD to play at DSU.
I would like to see this game, I wish the two schools could work something out. Right now there are not enough seats in Dover for DSU to host this game.

[HIU 93]

You serious? We have 4000+ more season ticket holders than they have seats. They cannot host this game, period.

And? SIU stadium is larger than ours, they have National Championships, more season ticket holders, and they are halfway across the country from us. They still are giving us a home and home series, and they're starting at our place.

So, what's UD's reasoning, again?

[Blue Hen Nation]

Why shouldn't they ask for a home game in return? It's amazing how UD expects DSU to just bend over and grab their ankles for them. If that's the attitude that UD is taking, I hope y'all don't play.

DSU @ 6,800 seats v. UD @ 22,000..........No brainer!

[OL FU]

There are lots of reasons the two teams should play, but saying UD should go to DSU is a stretch.

Even in-state football has to face economic realities.


Edit: In-state football does not have to face the economic realities but you can't blame a school that will not ignore them. That's better

[89Hen]

And? SIU stadium is larger than ours, they have National Championships, more season ticket holders, and they are halfway across the country from us. They still are giving us a home and home series, and they're starting at our place.

So, what's DSU's reasoning, again?

DSU has every right to ask for a home game.
UD has every right to say no.
It doesn't work financially for UD to play at DSU.
I would like to see this game, I wish the two schools could work something out. Right now there are not enough seats in Dover for DSU to host this game.
86 has it right. DSU also hosted SIU and UMass... not my concern. Last time I checked SIU averaged 9500 per game at 52% capacity, and UMass averaged 11,600 per game at 68% capacity. Furthermore, few of their fans probably travel to games. UD averages 22,000 at 100% capacity and are located 45 minutes from DSU. You HONESTLY don't see a problem here? xcoffeex

[BlueHen86]

86 has it right. DSU also hosted SIU and UMass... not my concern. Last time I checked SIU averaged 9500 per game at 52% capacity, and UMass averaged 11,600 per game at 68% capacity. Furthermore, few of their fans probably travel to games. UD averages 22,000 at 100% capacity and are located 45 minutes from DSU. You HONESTLY don't see a problem here? xcoffeex
How about if UD hosts every year, but DSU is guaranteed 6800 tickets? I don't know what the visiting team ticket allotment usually is, but I think 6800 is reasonable. xtwocentsx

[HIU 93]

86 has it right. DSU also hosted SIU and UMass... not my concern. Last time I checked SIU averaged 9500 per game at 52% capacity, and UMass averaged 11,600 per game at 68% capacity. Furthermore, few of their fans probably travel to games. UD averages 22,000 at 100% capacity and are located 45 minutes from DSU. You HONESTLY don't see a problem here? xcoffeex

I do see aproblem. I see that UD is refusing to play DSU, and the reasoning does not make sense. How can SIU possibly make it financially feasible to travel to Hampton, VA, but UD can't make it financially feasible to travel an hour?

[89Hen]

How about if UD hosts every year, but DSU is guaranteed 6800 tickets? I don't know what the visiting team ticket allotment usually is, but I think 6800 is reasonable. xtwocentsx
You'd have a bunch of Delaware fans buying through DelSt... just like for Navy game. Delaware only sells 2,000 tix but there are 10,000 Hen fans in attendance. xnodx

[89Hen]

I do see aproblem. I see that UD is refusing to play DSU, and the reasoning does not make sense. How can SIU possibly make it financially feasible to travel to Hampton, VA, but UD can't make it financially feasible to travel an hour?
Don't know, I can't speak for the athletic budgeting of Southern Illinois. What I do know is that the UD football program makes money for the University. I also know that we would have three times as many fans who would want to go to the game than their stadium can hold. Delaware can make a LOT more money by having Monmouth come to Newark.

Reasoning doesn't make sense? xlolx You're just being stubborn.

[GannonFan]

How about if UD hosts every year, but DSU is guaranteed 6800 tickets? I don't know what the visiting team ticket allotment usually is, but I think 6800 is reasonable. xtwocentsx

Currently we typically give only 500 tickets to visiting schools when they come to UD. Even with that small number, they seldom all are sold. Strange enough, it always seems like some of the Northern schools are the better travel fanbases - UNH brought down a decent amount in 2004 and that was before even they knew about Santos.

[HIU 93]

Reasoning doesn't make sense? xlolx You're just being stubborn.

Just like DSU, huh? Wonder why?????xwhistlex

[89Hen]

Currently we typically give only 500 tickets to visiting schools when they come to UD. Even with that small number, they seldom all are sold. Strange enough, it always seems like some of the Northern schools are the better travel fanbases - UNH brought down a decent amount in 2004 and that was before even they knew about Santos.
Monmouth had more fans there on Saturday than I've seen most bring. xeyebrowx They even brought a pep band (but they sucked).

[89Hen]

Just like DSU, huh? Wonder why?????xwhistlex
Because they want something for nothing. The only thing they have to offer is persistence.

[HIU 93]

What I do know is that the UD football program makes money for the University. I also know that we would have three times as many fans who would want to go to the game than their stadium can hold. Delaware can make a LOT more money by having Monmouth come to Newark.


That makes sense. Saying "...it is not financially feasible to travel..." an hour (travel being the key word) makes it sound like y'all can't afford to travel to Dover.xeekx

[GannonFan]

Don't know, I can't speak for the athletic budgeting of Southern Illinois. What I do know is that the UD football program makes money for the University. I also know that we would have three times as many fans who would want to go to the game than their stadium can hold. Delaware can make a LOT more money by having Monmouth come to Newark.

Reasoning doesn't make sense? xlolx You're just being stubborn.

Agree with 89 here - UD doesn't have to go to DSU. College football still has a large amount to do with money, and UD can and has found plenty of teams that are willing to come to Delaware Stadium with no return game - Lehigh, New Hampshire (when not on conference schedule), Hofstra (same reason), Holy Cross, Monmouth, Albany, Towson in the 90's. Even when we play South Dakota St in a few years, it's a 2 for 1 deal with UD going there once and SDSU coming here twice. UD makes $400k profit per home game, so there is incentive to play as many home games as possible, and UD is in the position to be able to do that. When you can give a team a check to come play you for more money than they would make playing at their stadium sometimes the other team's willing to do that.

But specifically with the UD/DSU argument, one of the big selling points is how it would be great for the state and so on - but seeing how 22k people in the state can see the game in Newark but then 16k people will be shut out in the much smaller stadium in Dover, that selling point becomes less compelling. Of course, that then prompts the cynic in me to think that maybe DSU officials publicly calling UD racist has less to do with UD at all (and the UD/DSU series) and more to do with convincing the state to come up with the money to fund a stadium expansion at DSU, which they just happen to have the blueprints all ready but can't find a way to fund it. Nah, that couldn't be it. xrolleyesx

[HIU 93]

Agree with 89 here - UD doesn't have to go to DSU. College football still has a large amount to do with money...

Funny. It seems that some of the same AGSer's that agree with this sentiment when it comes to UD playing DSU dislike the SWAC specifically and HBCUs in general for playing "Classics" for the paycheck.xwhistlex

[89Hen]

That makes sense. Saying "...it is not financially feasible to travel..." an hour (travel being the key word) makes it sound like y'all can't afford to travel to Dover.xeekx
xconfusedx Those were YOUR words, not mine or any of the Hen fans.

[BlueHen86]

That makes sense. Saying "...it is not financially feasible to travel..." an hour (travel being the key word) makes it sound like y'all can't afford to travel to Dover.xeekx
UD playing at DSU would be charity for DSU and costly for UD. Why should UD give up a home game? There are plenty of teams willing to travel to Newark. UD does not need to play DSU. If DSU wants to play UD they have to make some concessions.

SIU has no bearing on this discussion. I doubt if UD and SIU consult each other before making Athletic Department moves. Maybe SIU wants to come east for the exposure?

[89Hen]

Funny. It seems that some of the same AGSer's that agree with this sentiment when it comes to UD playing DSU dislike the SWAC specifically and HBCUs in general for playing "Classics" for the paycheck.xwhistlex
Not me. I've said the SWAC does the right thing by playing classics and I'm pretty sure Gannon agrees. xconfusedx

[BlueHen86]

Funny. It seems that some of the same AGSer's that agree with this sentiment when it comes to UD playing DSU dislike the SWAC specifically and HBCUs in general for playing "Classics" for the paycheck.xwhistlex

You have never read that argument from me. If HBCU's can make more money in classics, more power to them.

[HIU 93]

Not me. I've said the SWAC does the right thing by playing classics and I'm pretty sure Gannon agrees. xconfusedx

Did I mention you or Gannon in that statement?

[HIU 93]

You have never read that argument from me. If HBCU's can make more money in classics, more power to them.

Wasn't talking about you.

[GannonFan]

Not me. I've said the SWAC does the right thing by playing classics and I'm pretty sure Gannon agrees. xconfusedx

But of course I agree!!! Hey, I've never, ever knocked the HBCU's for playing Classic games and getting the money - they would be foolish not to take advantage of an opportunity like that. I'm sure there are AGS'ers out there who think differently, but I would respectfully disagree with them.

[HIU 93]

xconfusedx Those were YOUR words, not mine or any of the Hen fans.

Really?



It doesn't work financially for UD to play at DSU.

[YoUDeeMan]

Of course, that then prompts the cynic in me to think that maybe DSU officials publicly calling UD racist has less to do with UD at all (and the UD/DSU series) and more to do with convincing the state to come up with the money to fund a stadium expansion at DSU, which they just happen to have the blueprints all ready but can't find a way to fund it. Nah, that couldn't be it. xrolleyesx

DSU pulling a political maneuver for money? With a couple of state representatives double dipping on their payroll and Norman (What? You Want Me to Provide An Accounting Of The Money?) Oliver on their BOT?

Nah...xlolx xlolx xrotatehx xwhistlex

[BlueHen86]

Really?
I never used the word travel.xnonono2x

[HIU 93]

But of course I agree!!! Hey, I've never, ever knocked the HBCU's for playing Classic games and getting the money - they would be foolish not to take advantage of an opportunity like that. I'm sure there are AGS'ers out there who think differently, but I would respectfully disagree with them.

I didn't say it was you- I said there are those that seem to agree with you on UD vs. DSU that have said that trhe SWAC and HBCUs shouldn't play "Classics".

[skinny_uncle]

Don't know, I can't speak for the athletic budgeting of Southern Illinois. What I do know is that the UD football program makes money for the University. I also know that we would have three times as many fans who would want to go to the game than their stadium can hold. Delaware can make a LOT more money by having Monmouth come to Newark.

Reasoning doesn't make sense? xlolx You're just being stubborn.
SIU needed a replacement game when WKU left the Gateway. Hampton was just available at the right time.

[HIU 93]

I never used the word travel.xnonono2x

How were y'all going to get there, teleport?xlolx

[HIU 93]

SIU needed a replacement game when WKU left the Gateway. Hampton was just available at the right time.

So why did they give us a return game at their place?

[GannonFan]

I didn't say it was you- I said there are those that seem to agree with you on UD vs. DSU that have said that trhe SWAC and HBCUs shouldn't play "Classics".

And I agree with you that they are double faced to have that position. Makes no sense to me. Get the money where you can, and have fun while doing it. It's all good. xthumbsupx

[BlueHen86]

That makes sense. Saying "...it is not financially feasible to travel..." an hour (travel being the key word) makes it sound like y'all can't afford to travel to Dover.xeekx


How were y'all going to get there, teleport?xlolx

You are the person who used the word travel, not me.

What I said was:


DSU has every right to ask for a home game.
UD has every right to say no.
It doesn't work financially for UD to play at DSU.
I would like to see this game, I wish the two schools could work something out. Right now there are not enough seats in Dover for DSU to host this game.

That has nothing to do with travel, it has to do with playing a road game when we can schedule a home game with someone else. If we can schedule 7 home games, why play 6? Unless the road game is going to give us a nice payout, which DSU can't.

[89Hen]

Did I mention you or Gannon in that statement?


Wasn't talking about you.
Then to whom were you referring?

[89Hen]

You are the person who used the word travel, not me.

What I said was:

That has nothing to do with travel, it has to do with playing a road game when we can schedule a home game with someone else. If we can schedule 7 home games, why play 6? Unless the road game is going to give us a nice payout, which DSU can't.
xnodx xnodx xnodx

[lizrdgizrd]

Then to whom were you referring?
He's just trying to draw attention away from the fact that there is a legitimate reason for UD to not play DSU right now. xnonono2x

Although, if DSU can leverage this b!tchfest into a new stadium I say more power to 'em. xthumbsupx

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/kevncoll/Emoticons/th_1f4e507c.gif

I may need to pop another basket for this onexnodx

I'll just chill with a bowl of ice cream on this one....

Looks like the SWAC vs Southland Battle has hit the Northwest....CAA vs MEAC Style that is

[89Hen]

Looks like the SWAC vs Southland Battle has hit the Northwest....CAA vs MEAC Style that is
Nah, I don't have any issues with the MEAC. This isn't about CAA vs MEAC or PWC vs HBCU.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UD playing at DSU would be charity for DSU and costly for UD. Why should UD give up a home game? There are plenty of teams willing to travel to Newark. UD does not need to play DSU. If DSU wants to play UD they have to make some concessions.

If travelling to DSU is "charity", what is the South Dakota State game then? A chance to see Mount Rushmore?

I will repeat: there is nothing saying that Delaware HAS to be "charitable" to Delaware State and schedule a game with the Hornets. But it would be better for Delaware higher education in Delaware if they would play Delaware State, and would heal a ton of old wounds between the two schools if it were to happen.

I happen to think this matchup is going to happen in the playoffs, anyway, even though there's a lot of football left to play.

[GannonFan]

If travelling to DSU is "charity", what is the South Dakota State game then? A chance to see Mount Rushmore?

Nah, Mt Rushmore is on the other side of the state from Brookings - it's a 2 for 1 deal - UD gets 2 home gates for only travelling once. $$$$$$ xthumbsupx

[LUHawker]

Monmouth had more fans there on Saturday than I've seen most bring. xeyebrowx They even brought a pep band (but they sucked).

I think Lehigh had about 3-5k in the stands at UD a couple of years ago. Tough to estimate since we were mixed in throughout the stands.

[Go...gate]

And? SIU stadium is larger than ours, they have National Championships, more season ticket holders, and they are halfway across the country from us. They still are giving us a home and home series, and they're starting at our place.

So, what's UD's reasoning, again?

As is Princeton.

[89Hen]

Nah, Mt Rushmore is on the other side of the state from Brookings - it's a 2 for 1 deal - UD gets 2 home gates for only travelling once. $$$$$$ xthumbsupx
Plus it's a brand new area for the Hens and previous to this year SDSU was a better opponent.

[R.A.]

As is Princeton.

The return game is in 2011.

[henfan]

Agree with 89 here - UD doesn't have to go to DSU.

I'm probably one of the biggest advocates of a DSU-UD game you'll find but even I can't support a lamebrained idea for a home-home. That just makes no sense for either school.

DSU would stand to make more cash from the two road guarantees. Home-home deals are typically structured to be revenue neutral. Guarantees offered for road only deals are usually higher than the road half of home-home deals.

[Go...gate]

How about playing at the Linc?

[R.A.]

DSU can add stands and increase capacity for the return game... it's not like that's impossible.

Delaware fans, you all are tripping.

What school isn't going to want a Home & Home?!?!

Del State isn't a DII. This is a typical business practice-- THE HOME & HOME CONTRACT.

[henfan]

How about playing at the Linc?

The Battle of Delaware in Philadelphia? Not going to happen, if the game is truely for the benefit of Delawareans.

Besides, the Eagles allegedly gouge Temple to the tune of several hundred thou per game to rent the Linc. That would leave little room for revenue for either side. And a huge stadium like that would be overkill for a UD-DSU game, IMO.

As for FCS schools who don't want a home-home, there have been several who have come to Newark without a return trip. Home-homes are typical business for most FCS schools, but not necessarily schools who draw 22K fans every game.

[89Hen]

Delaware fans, you all are tripping.

What school isn't going to want a Home & Home?!?!

Del State isn't a DII. This is a typical business practice-- THE HOME & HOME CONTRACT.
Well... just in the last four years...

Hofstra
New Hampshire
Monmouth
Albany
Lehigh
Holy Cross