Delaware won't play Delaware State? What a joke

[R.A.]

Del State isn't going to be itched by Delaware.

If IVY LEAGUE Princeton can return a game to MEAC Hampton... then WANNABE IVY Delaware can return a game to MEAC Delaware State.

Delaware needs to get off their artificial throne and return the trip to Dover.

And as for Hofstra and New Hampshire... why even use conference games in your argument??? You'll be returning those games?

I really want Del State to make the playoffs and get their shot at Delaware.

[89Hen]

If IVY LEAGUE Princeton can return a game to MEAC Hampton... then WANNABE IVY Delaware can return a game to MEAC Delaware State.

Delaware needs to get off their artificial throne and return the trip to Dover.

And as for Hofstra and New Hampshire... why even use conference games in your argument??? You're be returning.
What Princeton does is up to them.

Artificial throne? 22,000 compared to 4,000... there is nothing artificial about it.

They were stand alone games in years when they weren't on our conference schedule.

[R.A.]

Artificial throne? 22,000 compared to 4,000... there is nothing artificial about it.




Okay... well SCSU has 22,000 also compared with DSU's 6,000 plus. And Del State beat SCSU last season.

Seats don't equal wins.

Trying to get a huge payday by playing Del State at home, but not returning the favor by playing Del State in Dover is not an ethnical business practice, especially if they are willing to playing in Wilmington.

There's so much room around DSU's stadium to add temporary bleachers for a Delaware @ Del State game.

If they agree to add 10,000 seats--- 5,000 in each end zone, then what will Delaware's excuse be??

[BlueHen86]

Okay... well SCSU has 22,000 also compared with DSU's 6,000 plus. And Del State beat SCSU last season.

Seats don't equal wins.

But they do equal money, and right now Del State doesn't have enough of them.


Trying to get a huge payday by playing Del State at home, but not returning the favor by playing Del State in Dover is not an ethnical business practice, especially if they are willing to playing in Wilmington.

UD doesn't need Del State for a huge payday, they sell out anyway. It's Del State that wants the huge payday. At UD's expense. It would be a stupid business practice for UD to schedule a game in Dover when they could get a better payday somewhere else.


There's so much room around DSU's stadium to add temporary bleachers for a Delaware @ Del State game.

If they agree to add 10,000 seats--- 5,000 in each end zone, then what will Delaware's excuse be??

Let me know when that happens. I live in the real world and right now Del State doesn't have 5000 seats in each end zone.
xcoffeex

[SunCoastBlueHen]

But they do equal money, and right now Del State doesn't have enough of them.



UD doesn't need Del State for a huge payday, they sell out anyway. It's Del State that wants the huge payday. At UD's expense. It would be a stupid business practice for UD to schedule a game in Dover when they could get a better payday somewhere else.



Let me know when that happens. I live in the real world and right now Del State doesn't have 5000 seats in each end zone.
xcoffeex

I thought about entering this discussion, but you and '89 are holding down the fort quite well without any additional intervention. xcoffeex

[RadMann]

I would be for one home and home series, but then I hope we never have to talk about this again.... unless/until DSU gets a decent stadium and a few fans to fill it.. Then it would be cool to have an annual game, before then, no way.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I would be for one home and home series, but then I hope we never have to talk about this again.... unless/until DSU gets a decent stadium and a few fans to fill it.. Then it would be cool to have an annual game, before then, no way.

Why should Delaware give up a pay day (extra home game) for the simple reason of shutting everyone up? That smells a bit of extortion.

[RadMann]

I agree, but there are political extortionists all over the place nowadays. Darn, you see it in our political system everyday....

[BlueHen86]

I agree, but there are political extortionists all over the place nowadays. Darn, you see it in our political system everyday....
I would like to see them play. I lived in Dover once upon a time and knew some DSU students and football players.
I don't expect UD to have to make sacrifices in order to make it happen. I'm not privy to the negotiations, I would like to see something worked out. Maybe a 3 for 1 deal? I have no idea what would be acceptable to the UD and DSU administrations.
If they meet in the playoffs and DSU wins I wonder if UD would be willing to sign for 1 home and home?xeyebrowx

[ChickenMan]

Del State isn't going to be itched by Delaware.

If IVY LEAGUE Princeton can return a game to MEAC Hampton... then WANNABE IVY Delaware can return a game to MEAC Delaware State.

Delaware needs to get off their artificial throne and return the trip to Dover.



No they don't.. I'd like to se the game played.. but NOT if it requires home/home contract. As was stated UD can get many FCS opponents to play at Delaware Stadium with no return game agreement.. so why should they accomadate Del St.. a program that has certainly has not earned the right to dictate to UD. Del St is the school begging for the game.. not UD. The fact is.. if the Hornets truly want the game.. it will be scheduled on UD's terms or not scheduled at all.

[R.A.]

Sad xnonono2x

[ChickenMan]

Sad xnonono2x


Please explain why UD should agree to give Del St a home/home contract when many other more prominate FCS programs are willing to play at UD.. with no return game??? The only two FC opponents.. in recent years.. that have played home/home vs UD were GSU in '01 & '02 and Furman.. which is scheduled for '08 & '09. When Del St reaches the Furman & GSU level of prominance.. I'll agree that they have earned a home/home.. until then.. I think not.

[R.A.]

Please explain why UD should agree to give Del St a home/home contract when many other more prominate FCS programs are willing to play at UD.. with no return game???

UUUhhhmmm, because they haven't... ever!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Please explain why UD should agree to give Del St a home/home contract when many other more prominate FCS programs are willing to play at UD.. with no return game??? The only two FC opponents.. in recent years.. that have played home/home vs UD were GSU in '01 & '02 and Furman.. which is scheduled for '08 & '09. When Del St reaches the Furman & GSU level of prominance.. I'll agree that they have earned a home/home.. until then.. I think not.

So South Dakota State gets a 2-for-1, and that means, what, they're semi-prominent? So's Lehigh, with a one-and-done?

Am I the only one to see how arrogant that sounds?

Like I said before, there's nothing saying that Delaware has to allow Delaware State to play them with some sort of home game. The excuse, though, that's there's some "quality threshold" before scheduling a game is a new one for me.

Might as well just say it: is Delaware simply too arrogant to ever schedule this game? Is that just what it is? No racism, no "we haven't gotten the right deal", no "other schools are scheduling one-and-dones and two-for-ones, so why ever schedule this game". Isn't it just pure, unadulterated, arrogance?

[Tod]

Seems to me a 2 for 1 with a minimum payout (from both schools) would solve this problem.

xconfusedx

[SunCoastBlueHen]

So South Dakota State gets a 2-for-1, and that means, what, they're semi-prominent? So's Lehigh, with a one-and-done?

Am I the only one to see how arrogant that sounds?

Like I said before, there's nothing saying that Delaware has to allow Delaware State to play them with some sort of home game. The excuse, though, that's there's some "quality threshold" before scheduling a game is a new one for me.

Might as well just say it: is Delaware simply too arrogant to ever schedule this game? Is that just what it is? No racism, no "we haven't gotten the right deal", no "other schools are scheduling one-and-dones and two-for-ones, so why ever schedule this game". Isn't it just pure, unadulterated, arrogance?

When you sell out your stadium no matter who comes to visit, you can afford to act arrogant. It's all about $$$$$. Delaware is in a very positive bargaining position when making their schedule because they make money on their football program while most others at this level lose. Delaware can afford to say "you don't want to play us in Newark with no return date? Fine we'll find someone else who will who needs the payout more than you do". If you want to call that arrogance, fine. It all stems, however, from the superior financial position Delaware football has relative to most of the rest of the FCS.

[89Hen]

Okay... well SCSU has 22,000 also compared with DSU's 6,000 plus. And Del State beat SCSU last season.

Seats don't equal wins.

Trying to get a huge payday by playing Del State at home, but not returning the favor by playing Del State in Dover is not an ethnical business practice, especially if they are willing to playing in Wilmington.

There's so much room around DSU's stadium to add temporary bleachers for a Delaware @ Del State game.

If they agree to add 10,000 seats--- 5,000 in each end zone, then what will Delaware's excuse be??
I can see you'll be stubborn on this to the bitter end, but...

Who said anything about wins?

We're not trying to get a huge payday by playing DelSt at home. THEY want the game, not us. Wilmington? Delaware Stadium in Newark is the ONLY place remotely big enough other than the racetrack in Dover. Cracks me up that people that know nothing of the state of Delaware feel like they know what's going on.

Call DSU and see if they'll add 20,000 seats, restrooms, parking, concessions, etc... for a game.

[89Hen]

Sad xnonono2x
Let me know the next time Georgia plays at Georgia Southern. Then you'll have a case. xcoffeex

[89Hen]

UUUhhhmmm, because they haven't... ever!
Can't argue with that kind of reasoning. xrolleyesx xcoolx

[89Hen]

So South Dakota State gets a 2-for-1, and that means, what, they're semi-prominent? So's Lehigh, with a one-and-done?

Am I the only one to see how arrogant that sounds?

Like I said before, there's nothing saying that Delaware has to allow Delaware State to play them with some sort of home game. The excuse, though, that's there's some "quality threshold" before scheduling a game is a new one for me.

Might as well just say it: is Delaware simply too arrogant to ever schedule this game? Is that just what it is? No racism, no "we haven't gotten the right deal", no "other schools are scheduling one-and-dones and two-for-ones, so why ever schedule this game". Isn't it just pure, unadulterated, arrogance?
Sour grapes? xeyebrowx xcoffeex

[R.A.]

Let me know the next time Georgia plays at Georgia Southern. Then you'll have a case. xcoffeex

So Delaware's comparing themselves with Georgia??

Such arrogance from a wannabe Ivy...

[R.A.]

Can't argue with that kind of reasoning. xrolleyesx xcoolx

-Okay, argue it in financial terms xrolleyesx how non-beneficial it would be for Delaware not to develop an instate rivalry with Delaware State, a school on the same level as Delaware, about an hour's ride from each other?

-Wait, before you answer ... let me ask Southern and Grambling fans how non-beneficial the Bayou Classic is to both Louisiana schools ... or wait, I'll go ask Montana fans how non-beneficial playing Montana State is to both schools ... better yet, let me ask Georgia why the heck they play Georgia Tech each year....

-Delaware and Delaware State are on the same level... the FCS... It's not like MEAC Schools have never beaten A-10/CAA schools...

Start the series!

You feel like you're playing down, but you've never played Del State.

I hope the Hornets make the playoffs man so the committee can send them on up to Raymond.

[R.A.]

Can't argue with that kind of reasoning. xrolleyesx xcoolx

Can't argue with stupidity xnonono2x

[ChickenMan]

Seems to me a 2 for 1 with a minimum payout (from both schools) would solve this problem.

xconfusedx


Glass house.... :p

[HIU 93]

Then to whom were you referring?

The people who agree with your stance but say the SWAC and HBCUs shouldn't play classics for money.

[HIU 93]

He's just trying to draw attention away from the fact that there is a legitimate reason for UD to not play DSU right now. xnonono2x

Although, if DSU can leverage this b!tchfest into a new stadium I say more power to 'em. xthumbsupx

I'm glad your arrogance makes you think you have any clue what I was doing.xnonox

[ChickenMan]

--Delaware and Delaware State are on the same level... the FCS... It's not like MEAC Schools have never beaten A-10/CAA schools...




Sure and Michigan.. Central Michigan.. Western MicHigan and Eastern Michigan are all supposedly on the same level as well.. but you'll never see Michigan traveling to play a football game at any of those schools... I wonder why??? "It's not like MAC schools have never beaten Big 10 schools".... xrolleyesx

[Seahawks Fan]

Why is travelling an issue? Haven't we established that DSU doesn't require a home and home series? If you can play Monmouth at home, why can't you play DSU?

[BlueHen86]

-Okay, argue it in financial terms xrolleyesx how non-beneficial it would be for Delaware not to develop an instate rivalry with Delaware State, a school on the same level as Delaware, about an hour's ride from each other?

-Wait, before you answer ... let me ask Southern and Grambling fans how non-beneficial the Bayou Classic is to both Louisiana schools ... or wait, I'll go ask Montana fans how non-beneficial playing Montana State is to both schools ... better yet, let me ask Georgia why the heck they play Georgia Tech each year....

-Delaware and Delaware State are on the same level... the FCS... It's not like MEAC Schools have never beaten A-10/CAA schools...

Start the series!

You feel like you're playing down, but you've never played Del State.

I hope the Hornets make the playoffs man so the committee can send them on up to Raymond.
It about the money. Right now Delaware can make more money playing at Maryland or hosting Monmouth than they can playing at Del St.
Also, Delaware can make as much money hosting Monmouth as it can hosting Del St.
Financially, right now, there is no upside for Delaware in this series.

I would like to see them play too, but it would be stupid for UD to do so if it means a loss of revenue.

[BlueHen86]

Why is travelling an issue? Haven't we established that DSU doesn't require a home and home series? If you can play Monmouth at home, why can't you play DSU?

We HAVE NOT established that.


Important update to this story that falls under the "I TOLD YOU SO" category.

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070930/SPORTS07/709300359/1002/SPORTS

Costello said when he does meet with Johnson after the season regarding a matchup, the Hornets won't settle for a one-game deal. He said DSU would be interested only in a contract for a home-and-home series against Delaware, which means the Blue Hens would have to play at Alumni Stadium, which seats just 6,800.

"We'll play anywhere, any place and anytime," Costello said. "But it would have to be a fair and equitable situation."

This game will never take place if that's the stance DSU is going to take.

[Blue Hen Nation]

Just like DSU, huh? Wonder why?????xwhistlex

Clearly you weren't an economics major.

[Blue Hen Nation]

The people who agree with your stance but say the SWAC and HBCUs shouldn't play classics for money.

The perenial A P O L O G I S T of all of things "black" xbawlingx

[813Jag]

What about a home/home with DSU's home game being at a neutral site?

[SunCoastBlueHen]

What about a home/home with DSU's home game being at a neutral site?

That would require moving the game out of state which would kind of defeat the whole in-state rivalry thing. I also doubt either team would be agreeable to traveling to somewhere in PA and paying cash for the use of a stadium. Though it only holds 6800, DSU has the second largest football stadium in the State of Delaware.

[BlueHen86]

What about a home/home with DSU's home game being at a neutral site?
Too hypothetical.
Where is this neutral site?
No guarantee that either UD or DSU would agree.

[mcveyrl]

This is a serious question - how much would Delaware stand to lose by having one game at DSU, assuming an "okay" payout?

And I know the logistics (ticket sales, concessions, souveys), but does anybody have concrete numbers? I'm not sure if this information is even available, but I'd like to know if it is.

[appfan2008]

I dont think Deleware would lose all that much... they should do it...

[mcveyrl]

I dont think Deleware would lose all that much... they should do it...

I guess that's what I was thinking, but I really don't know.

My thoughts on this is that there are certain games you should play, even if you have to take a hit in the pocketbook.

BUT, I think there's a line that you cross in terms of loss where that wouldn't apply. That line is different for everybody. I'd just like to know the amount of profit UD stands to lose.

I also think that UD is in a better position to absorb a loss since, as people have pointed out, Delaware has a fairly profitable football program.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

This is a serious question - how much would Delaware stand to lose by having one game at DSU, assuming an "okay" payout?

And I know the logistics (ticket sales, concessions, souveys), but does anybody have concrete numbers? I'm not sure if this information is even available, but I'd like to know if it is.

Well if you take 22,000 x $40 per person (conservative estimate of avg ticket + parking + concessions) that is $880,000 dollars in foregone revenue assuming UD would have had an extra home game. If DSU can only fit 6800 in the stadium x the same $40 that would equal gross revenue of only $272,000. How much of that could they really afford to pay out?

[89Hen]

So Delaware's comparing themselves with Georgia??

Such arrogance from a wannabe Ivy...
Nope. Guess you've never heard an analogy? xconfusedx Do the math...

Delaware = 21,825
Del State = 3,505

Georgia = 92,746
GSU = 15,612

Both examples are state schools, both smaller attendance figures are 16% of their larger in-state co-horts. xcoffeex

[89Hen]

-Okay, argue it in financial terms xrolleyesx how non-beneficial it would be for Delaware not to develop an instate rivalry with Delaware State, a school on the same level as Delaware, about an hour's ride from each other?

-Wait, before you answer ...
Perhaps you should read before you ask because your answer has been given at least a dozen times here. Delaware would LOSE money by travelling to Dover every other year (no HIU93 not because of the bus rental).

[mcveyrl]

Well if you take 22,000 x $40 per person (conservative estimate of avg ticket + parking + concessions) that is $880,000 dollars in foregone revenue assuming UD would have had an extra home game. If DSU can only fit 6800 in the stadium x the same $40 that would equal gross revenue of only $272,000. How much of that could they really afford to pay out?

That makes sense, but what would be UD's profit for that game? If you take into account coachs' salaries, workers, food costs, etc. (I'm assuming the stadium is paid for, otherwise you've got debt service to think about), plus the other team's payout. The profit's not HUGE.

I understand the same argument goes for DSU's game, too. Their profit's even smaller and they can't afford to pay much of that out, but they would probably go in the hole a little to shell out some money to Delaware. Certainly, having a home game at DSU is not going to be a big moneymaker for them, either. Not to mention Delaware gets an away game off of their schedule that requires minimum travel (I realize that doesn't save you any money because you wouldn't have traveled anyway, but I think it's a small factor to consider).
But, you also have to consider coach's salaries in your costs for the away game too.

With all that said, financially, how is traveling to DSU different than traveling to Monmouth or SDSU?

[SunCoastBlueHen]

That makes sense, but what would be UD's profit for that game? If you take into account coachs' salaries, workers, food costs, etc. (I'm assuming the stadium is paid for, otherwise you've got debt service to think about), plus the other team's payout. The profit's not HUGE.

I understand the same argument goes for DSU's game, too. Their profit's even smaller and they can't afford to pay much of that out, but they would probably go in the hole a little to shell out some money to Delaware. Certainly, having a home game at DSU is not going to be a big moneymaker for them, either. Not to mention Delaware gets an away game off of their schedule that requires minimum travel (I realize that doesn't save you any money because you wouldn't have traveled anyway, but I think it's a small factor to consider).
But, you also have to consider coach's salaries in your costs for the away game too.

With all that said, financially, how is traveling to DSU different than traveling to Monmouth or SDSU?

Well, coaches salaries are a fixed cost, as far as I know they get paid whether the game is a at home or on the road. ;)

As far as workers and other variable costs are concerned, you're certainly right that the the profit would not be $880,000, but I think net profit, excluding all fixed costs would probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of 75% of that figure.

As for Monmouth and SDSU, I don't believe we an away game scheduled with them and SDSU is a 2 for 1 deal.

Maybe that would be the ultimate solution, scheduling a 2 for 1 with DSU. xconfusedx

[Slammer50111]

Just another point of veiw on this. Maybe it is not so much about money or race but pride could be why UD won't play DSU. You could look at it like the Big Brother school UD and the little brother DSU. Big Brother does not want to take the chance and lose to little brother. If little brother beats big brother it might take some of the spotlight off of big brother.

UD is in the power position in the state. They don't want to share the spotlight with anyone in the state of Delaware. If DSU can be competive with UD then just maybe UD won't be Big Brother any more.

Not saying this is the way it is but it might have something to do with it. xtwocentsx

[mcveyrl]

Well, coaches salaries are a fixed cost, as far as I know they get paid whether the game is a at home or on the road. ;)

As far as workers and other variable costs are concerned, you're certainly right that the the profit would not be $880,000, but I think net profit, excluding all fixed costs would probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of 75% of that figure.

As for Monmouth and SDSU, I don't believe we an away game scheduled with them and SDSU is a 2 for 1 deal.

Maybe that would be the ultimate solution, scheduling a 2 for 1 with DSU. xconfusedx

Yea, I realized that as I typed, so I noted it as an expense for the away game. If the net profit is 75% then I think that that really is a lot of money to give up. What's UD's normal payout?

I was under the impression that you guys were traveling to Monmouth, but I guess I was wrong.

I think the 2 for 1 is a good solution, but don't know if that's what DSU is looking for.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Yea, I realized that as I typed, so I noted it as an expense for the away game. If the net profit is 75% then I think that that really is a lot of money to give up. What's UD's normal payout?

I was under the impression that you guys were traveling to Monmouth, but I guess I was wrong.

I think the 2 for 1 is a good solution, but don't know if that's what DSU is looking for.

I think I remember reading that Delaware football makes an annual net profit of over $1 mil including all fixed costs such as player scholarships, salaries, etc. I think the way to get to the real answer as to how much Delaware profits from an extra home game is to compare the net profit figures from a six home game season to a seven home game season.

Anyone know where to get those figures?

[mcveyrl]

I think I remember reading that Delaware football makes an annual net profit of over $1 mil including all fixed costs such as player scholarships, salaries, etc. I think the way to get to the real answer as to how much Delaware profits from an extra home game is to compare the net profit figures from a six home game season to a seven home game season.

Anyone know where to get those figures?

So long as all the games were sold out (which I assume they were) that would definitely be a pretty good approximation.

Plus, you'd want seasons close together to account for fluctuating ticket prices.

[ChickenMan]

With all that said, financially, how is traveling to DSU different than traveling to Monmouth or SDSU?


UD has never traveled to Monmouth and SDSU is two for one.. with the two being at UD.

[mcveyrl]

UD has never traveled to Monmouth and SDSU is two for one.. with the two being at UD.

Geez, read the whole thread...I already said that was my mistake, I got the impression that UD was traveling to Monmouth...

[Seahawks Fan]

OK if DSU won't just play a game at Newark (to break the ice) then I understand the problem. Reading through this thread there seems to be a difference of opinion on that.

[GannonFan]

UD normally profits (after expenses) somewhere from $1.5M to $2M a year from their football program. That equates, over a normal 6 game home schedule (UD normally does not play a I-A money game) to $250k to $333k profit (not revenue, profit) per home game. Considering that football is the main driver of funds for the other non-revenue generating sports, that's a pretty good chunk of cash to give up to appease the demand for a football game from another school.

Hey, I've never denied that UD football isn't elitist or even arrogant - of course we are. Oh well. We aren't alone in the football world thinking that either. Montana is pretty arrogant. Grambling is too, etc. When it comes down to it, UD doesn't have to play DSU in Dover. And frankly, even if the game was played there, the biggest loser in all of that would be the 16,000 fans who couldn't get into the game because of the size of the stadium who could've gotten into the game had it been played in Newark. For a game that some bill as a game for the residents of Delaware, it would appear to be odd that such a condition would be so adamantly pursued that the fans would suffer.

Again, it's certainly cynical of me, but since DSU has been public about wanting to move to FBS and wanting to build a huge stadium down in Dover for that purpose (with a lot of state financing required to do it as private funds are not readidly available), it's quite convenient now to publicly call UD racist and then demand a home and home series. Seeing how the biggest impediment to a home and home would be DSU's tiny stadium, it's rather convenient that DSU would have the answer to that - they have the blueprints all ready and now just need state funding. As the churchlady on SNL once said, "Mmmmmm, isn't that convenient??????" xcoffeex

[89Hen]

What about a home/home with DSU's home game being at a neutral site?
The neutral site would have to be at UD. Delaware is a small state, we only have one stadium. The only other place that could have it is Dover Downs and having a football game in the infield of a racetrack isn't a viable solution. Moving the game out of state ruins the whole concept.

[brownbear]

The neutral site would have to be at UD. Delaware is a small state, we only have one stadium. The only other place that could have it is Dover Downs and having a football game in the infield of a racetrack isn't a viable solution. Moving the game out of state ruins the whole concept.

Winston-Salem State plays at a racetrack. That could work!

[SunCoastBlueHen]

UD normally profits (after expenses) somewhere from $1.5M to $2M a year from their football program. That equates, over a normal 6 game home schedule (UD normally does not play a I-A money game) to $250k to $333k profit (not revenue, profit) per home game. Considering that football is the main driver of funds for the other non-revenue generating sports, that's a pretty good chunk of cash to give up to appease the demand for a football game from another school.

Hey, I've never denied that UD football isn't elitist or even arrogant - of course we are. Oh well. We aren't alone in the football world thinking that either. Montana is pretty arrogant. Grambling is too, etc. When it comes down to it, UD doesn't have to play DSU in Dover. And frankly, even if the game was played there, the biggest loser in all of that would be the 16,000 fans who couldn't get into the game because of the size of the stadium who could've gotten into the game had it been played in Newark. For a game that some bill as a game for the residents of Delaware, it would appear to be odd that such a condition would be so adamantly pursued that the fans would suffer.

Again, it's certainly cynical of me, but since DSU has been public about wanting to move to FBS and wanting to build a huge stadium down in Dover for that purpose (with a lot of state financing required to do it as private funds are not readidly available), it's quite convenient now to publicly call UD racist and then demand a home and home series. Seeing how the biggest impediment to a home and home would be DSU's tiny stadium, it's rather convenient that DSU would have the answer to that - they have the blueprints all ready and now just need state funding. As the churchlady on SNL once said, "Mmmmmm, isn't that convenient??????" xcoffeex

The lost profit by losing a home game would actually be more than that $250 - $333K because there are fixed cost built into those figures.

Excellent points made.

[89Hen]

Hey, I've never denied that UD football isn't elitist or even arrogant - of course we are. Oh well. We aren't alone in the football world thinking that either. Montana is pretty arrogant. Grambling is too, etc. When it comes down to it, UD doesn't have to play DSU in Dover. And frankly, even if the game was played there, the biggest loser in all of that would be the 16,000 fans who couldn't get into the game because of the size of the stadium who could've gotten into the game had it been played in Newark. For a game that some bill as a game for the residents of Delaware, it would appear to be odd that such a condition would be so adamantly pursued that the fans would suffer.

xnodx xbowx xnodx xbowx xnodx xbowx

I think that should really be the end to this debate.

[BlueHen86]

Winston-Salem State plays at a racetrack. That could work!
Have you seen Dover Downs? The stands are a loooooong way from the infield. You would need binoculars.

There is an awful lot of paving between the stands and the grass because of the NASCAR track.

[89Hen]

Winston-Salem State plays at a racetrack. That could work!
xeyebrowx Never knew that. However, they are already set up for that and the tracks really aren't comparable. Looks like their stadium seats 20,000 around a 1/4 mile, flat track with a grass infield. Dover Downs seats 120,000 around a one mile, steep banked track with a largely asphalt infield.

If DSU wants to front the money to make Dover Downs into a football venue, let's do it. :)

http://www.itpi.dpi.state.nc.us/counties/Forsyth/forsyth/stockcarracing.jpg

[mcveyrl]

UD normally profits (after expenses) somewhere from $1.5M to $2M a year from their football program. That equates, over a normal 6 game home schedule (UD normally does not play a I-A money game) to $250k to $333k profit (not revenue, profit) per home game. Considering that football is the main driver of funds for the other non-revenue generating sports, that's a pretty good chunk of cash to give up to appease the demand for a football game from another school.



Thanks. That sounds about right, do you know if the expenses include coaches, because as SCBH noted those are fixed costs. I think that means the profit per game would be higher since the fixed costs would be spread over all games, home and away.

That schedule gives UD one OOC away game per year, right? Who do they normally play for that? I know they're at Navy this year, and at some point they go to SDSU (but NOT Monmouth). It seems like they book these pretty far in advance.

Plus, your point about the fans is well taken, but you're really just talking about the UD fans who couldn't get tickets, which would really be more like 20,000 (maybe more) (I'm assuming UD couldn't get all the tickets!!). Surely this game would be on CN8.

[mcveyrl]

The lost profit by losing a home game would actually be more than that $250 - $333K because there are fixed cost built into those figures.

Excellent points made.


Thanks. That sounds about right, do you know if the expenses include coaches, because as SCBH noted those are fixed costs. I think that means the profit per game would be higher since the fixed costs would be spread over all games, home and away.



Scariness...

Sorry SCBH, you typed that as I was posting.

[GannonFan]

Thanks. That sounds about right, do you know if the expenses include coaches, because as SCBH noted those are fixed costs. I think that means the profit per game would be higher since the fixed costs would be spread over all games, home and away.

That schedule gives UD one OOC away game per year, right? Who do they normally play for that? I know they're at Navy this year, and at some point they go to SDSU (but NOT Monmouth). It seems like they book these pretty far in advance.

Plus, your point about the fans is well taken, but you're really just talking about the UD fans who couldn't get tickets, which would really be more like 20,000 (maybe more) (I'm assuming UD couldn't get all the tickets!!). Surely this game would be on CN8.

UD only (not that it's a small number btw) has 11,000 season tickets. The other 11,000 tickets sold for UD games (and all of them get sold) go to the general public. DSU's stadium could even hold half of the UD season ticket base. Putting the game on CN8 could certainly work, but again you're depriving 16,000 fans a chance to attend the game simply for the idea of having the game in Dover.

As for UD's OOC games, they do play Navy regularly (since 1990 all at Navy) and have Maryland on the schedule next year. We have also played home and home's with Youngstown St, Georgia Southern, The Citadel, and will have a home and home with Furman in '08 and '09.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There are three possibilities for Delaware State to "host" Delaware, all very possible:

1) Convert Dover Downs, for a day, into a football venue. I don't see why this couldn't work for a one-time thing, though it could be costly for DSU.

2) Add temporary stands to Hornet Stadium to increase the number of fans that could see the game. I haven't seen any reason to see why this would not be possible either, though you most likely wouldn't get 22,000.

3) Play a "home" game at Tubby Raymond stadium. Delaware "leases" the stadium to DSU for one game (getting revenue) and working something out with gate receipts.

Option #3 could be done. It is very similar to the deal Villanova worked out with Penn in Franklin field in the past. Delaware doesn't get the same revenues they get if it's a home game, but the "losses" of travelling allllll the wayyyy down to Dover are minimized.

If schools are *actually willing and able* to make this happen, something can be done. Unless the UD brass are (as I suspect) too arrogant to want to make this work.

[BlueHen86]

There are three possibilities for Delaware State to "host" Delaware, all very possible:

1) Convert Dover Downs, for a day, into a football venue. I don't see why this couldn't work for a one-time thing, though it could be costly for DSU.

2) Add temporary stands to Hornet Stadium to increase the number of fans that could see the game. I haven't seen any reason to see why this would not be possible either, though you most likely wouldn't get 22,000.

3) Play a "home" game at Tubby Raymond stadium. Delaware "leases" the stadium to DSU for one game (getting revenue) and working something out with gate receipts.

Option #3 could be done. It is very similar to the deal Villanova worked out with Penn in Franklin field in the past. Delaware doesn't get the same revenues they get if it's a home game, but the "losses" of travelling allllll the wayyyy down to Dover are minimized.

If schools are *actually willing and able* to make this happen, something can be done. Unless the UD brass are (as I suspect) too arrogant to want to make this work.
All of your options involve DSU spending money that they probably don't have.

1. Converting Dover Downs sounds great but the seating will be a long way away from the field. There will also be obstructed view seats since there are NASCAR garages on the infield. It would be very expensive to convert the Dover Downs infield to a football field, you would have to regrade the infield and sod it.

2. Temporary seats sound great, but again not cheap. Let me know when DSU does this.

3. This only works if DSU is willing to pay UD more for the game than if UD can earn by hosting themselves. Otherwise UD is losing revenue. I doubt that DSU can afford this.

You are doing a great job of spending DSU's and UD's money.

How about a fourth option:

We get Bill Gates to pay for the whole thing.

[ChickenMan]

If Del St truly wants a game(s) with Delaware they need to be willing to play the game anytime.. anywhere. By demanding that UD agree to a home/home Del St just gives UD's AD a LEGITIMATE excuse not to schedule the game.

I'm for a game (at UD) vs Del St.. but I'm starting to wonder.. does Del St really want a game or do they want a political issue???

[mcveyrl]

xeyebrowx Never knew that. However, they are already set up for that and the tracks really aren't comparable. Looks like their stadium seats 20,000 around a 1/4 mile, flat track with a grass infield. Dover Downs seats 120,000 around a one mile, steep banked track with a largely asphalt infield.

If DSU wants to front the money to make Dover Downs into a football venue, let's do it. :)

http://www.itpi.dpi.state.nc.us/counties/Forsyth/forsyth/stockcarracing.jpg

I performed a drum corps show on that field!!

What's funny about the race track discussion is that people for years have wanted Tennessee and Va. Tech to play each other at Bristol. It's about half-way between both schools, but neither school is willing to give up a home game for it (Bruton Smith, the track owner, has encrouaged it several times). The track is such that you could put temporary seating on the straightaways. You would probably come close to having 200,000 people at the game, but neither school wants to.

[BlueHen86]

If Del St truly wants a game(s) with Delaware they need to be willing to play the game anytime.. anywhere. By demanding that UD agree to a home/home Del St just gives UD's AD a LEGITIMATE excuse not to schedule the game.

I'm for a game (at UD) vs Del St.. but I'm starting to wonder.. does Del St really want a game or do they want a political issue???

Good question.

The reality is that both schools would make money if the game were in Newark. Any other venue means a loss of revenue for one or both schools.

[89Hen]

the "losses" of travelling allllll the wayyyy down to Dover are minimized.

If schools are *actually willing and able* to make this happen, something can be done. Unless the UD brass are (as I suspect) too arrogant to want to make this work.
Still sour grapes over UD not coming to Goodman.

Why do people keep dwelling on the "travel" aspect of this? Not one UD fan has said that the 'travel' is an issue. It has NOTHING to do with bus rentals and the 45 minute trip and everything to do with the venue. xbangx

[89Hen]

What's funny about the race track discussion is that people for years have wanted Tennessee and Va. Tech to play each other at Bristol. It's about half-way between both schools, but neither school is willing to give up a home game for it (Bruton Smith, the track owner, has encrouaged it several times). The track is such that you could put temporary seating on the straightaways. You would probably come close to having 200,000 people at the game, but neither school wants to.
It's gimmicky (sp?) and IMO just a spectacle. Similar to the Michigan/Michigan State hockey game at MSU's football stadium. They did it just to say they did it.

[mcveyrl]

Good question.

The reality is that both schools would make money if the game were in Newark. Any other venue means a loss of revenue for one or both schools.

From the discussions above, I think the answer to that is both schools lose money in Dover (assuming UD gets some money for themselves).

That gets back, I guess, to the main question. Is the loss suffered worth it to make this game happen? Obviously, UD's answer to this point, is no. And I'm not sure I disagree with them.

There's probably a creative solution to that problem, but I don't know that I've got it. Others might.

[mcveyrl]

It's gimmicky (sp?) and IMO just a spectacle. Similar to the Michigan/Michigan State hockey game at MSU's football stadium. They did it just to say they did it.

Well, I think the UT/Va. Tech game is gimmicky (going with your spelling there), but would bring in a TON of money, too.

I don't think a game would work at Dover Downs, just because the track is so much bigger (twice as big) and there's more in the infield (Bristol's just asphalt with a med center). Plus, it wouldn't draw as many fans.

[aust42]

So Delaware's comparing themselves with Georgia??

Such arrogance from a wannabe Ivy...


Wannabe Ivy? What?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

From the discussions above, I think the answer to that is both schools lose money in Dover (assuming UD gets some money for themselves).

That gets back, I guess, to the main question. Is the loss suffered worth it to make this game happen? Obviously, UD's answer to this point, is no. And I'm not sure I disagree with them.

There's probably a creative solution to that problem, but I don't know that I've got it. Others might.

I'm trying to come up with creative solutions, but they're all dismissed out of hand as being too expensive. Somehow, even a solution where DSU's "home" game at Tubby Raymond stadium all of a sudden is too expensive for Delaware and Delaware State.

My only point is that the details can be worked out if they want them to be worked out. Venues, guarantees, gates - it all can be worked out, if both sides want it. Both sides will have to give something up, and both sides will have to think some sort of greater good comes out of it (or have the "good" be legislated by the state: see Kentucky/Louisvile). If it's all about greed and financially favoring one side or another, it will never happen.

All I can say is that this game, no matter where or when it happens, will be a national story and will be hailed as the game that was finally played. I don't think that's bad for either school.

[89Hen]

My only point is that the details can be worked out if they want them to be worked out. Venues, guarantees, gates - it all can be worked out, if both sides want it. Both sides will have to give something up, and both sides will have to think some sort of greater good comes out of it (or have the "good" be legislated by the state: see Kentucky/Louisvile). If it's all about greed and financially favoring one side or another, it will never happen.
LFN, are you just now realizing that both sides don't want it? xconfusedx

[henfan]

LFN, are you just now realizing that both sides don't want it? xconfusedx

Given Rick Costello's position, I'd say that both sides don't want it. That's just really unfortunate for Delaware sports fans.xsmhx

[R.A.]

It about the money. Right now Delaware can make more money playing at Maryland or hosting Monmouth than they can playing at Del St.
Also, Delaware can make as much money hosting Monmouth as it can hosting Del St.
Financially, right now, there is no upside for Delaware in this series.

I would like to see them play too, but it would be stupid for UD to do so if it means a loss of revenue.

And how about 10 or 20 years from now??? Then what???

It's about developing a rivalry Hens fans with the other FCS team in the state.

10 years from now, when this game is the biggest on the schedule... what then???

It's not as if DSU can't add temporary seating. They have the room to do it... it's not a hard thing to do.

And I really wish your Delaware buddys would stop comparing themselves with Georgia and Michigan... simply comparing Delaware with DELAWARE would suffice.xthumbsupx

[brownbear]

The Georgia-Georgia Tech analogy is a good one. Georgia plays in a 92,000 seat stadium and has to travel every other year to Georgia Tech, which plays in a 55,000 seat stadium, that actually was only 45,000 seats until about 3 years ago.

[BlueHen86]

And how about 10 or 20 years from now??? Then what???

It's about developing a rivalry Hens fans with the other FCS team in the state.

10 years from now, when this game is the biggest on the schedule... what then???

[It's not as if DSU can't add temporary seating. They have the room to do it... it's not a hard thing to do.

And I really wish your Delaware buddys would stop comparing themselves with Georgia and Michigan... simply comparing Delaware with DELAWARE would suffice.xthumbsupx


In 10 years the game will have to be in Newark because Dover will be underwater due to global warming.
xbangx xbangx xbangx
xdeadhorsex

[R.A.]

Nope. Guess you've never heard an analogy? xconfusedx Do the math...

Delaware = 21,825
Del State = 3,505

Georgia = 92,746
GSU = 15,612

Both examples are state schools, both smaller attendance figures are 16% of their larger in-state co-horts. xcoffeex

xlolx
Stop comparing Georgia with Georgia Southern..... because it wouldn't be the proper analogy since Georgia is FBS and Georgia Southern is FCS.

Compare Gerogia with Georgia Tech... get me those stats... then compare the difference, not the percent, of how many less fans Tech averages than Georgia, and how many less fans Del State averages that
Delaware. Look at that the the differences in those two numbers, then answer for me why THEY STILL PLAY AT GEORGIA TECH EVERY OTHER SEASON!

[89Hen]

The Georgia-Georgia Tech analogy is a good one. Georgia plays in a 92,000 seat stadium and has to travel every other year to Georgia Tech, which plays in a 55,000 seat stadium, that actually was only 45,000 seats until about 3 years ago.
xconfusedx xsmhx Not even close. The Georgia-Georgia Southern figures were dead on.

[89Hen]

It's not as if DSU can't add temporary seating. They have the room to do it... it's not a hard thing to do.

And I really wish your Delaware buddys would stop comparing themselves with Georgia and Michigan... simply comparing Delaware with DELAWARE would suffice.xthumbsupx
And I really wish people in other states stopped pretending they know anything about the dynamic (or lack there of ) between two schools in Delaware.

I also have to laugh at the thought that a school can just put up twice as many temporary seats as they currently have. Poof, magic. xlolx

[89Hen]

xlolx
Stop comparing Georgia with Georgia Southern..... because it wouldn't be the proper analogy since Georgia is FBS and Georgia Southern is FCS.

Compare Gerogia with Georgia Tech... get me those stats... then compare the difference, not the percent, of how many less fans Tech averages than Georgia, and how many less fans Del State averages that
Delaware. Look at that the the differences in those two numbers, then answer for me why THEY STILL PLAY AT GEORGIA TECH EVERY OTHER SEASON!
First off UGA, GT and GSU are all Division I schools. Second, there is no comparable GT in the state of Delaware. The gap between UD and DSU is like the gap between UGA and GSU. Again, sorry you don't understand what an analogy is. xcoffeex

[R.A.]

And I really wish people in other states stopped pretending they know anything about the dynamic (or lack there of ) between two schools in Delaware.

I also have to laugh at the thought that a school can just put up twice as many temporary seats as they currently have. Poof, magic. xlolx

yeah, that could never happenxrolleyesx Perhaps you should consult the good fans of NCCU, and ask them all about the Prince George's Classic that they played in held at Bowie State... ask them how many temp seats were around Bowie's small stadium field.

It's not such a hard thing to do if you have the space, resources, and the fire marshall allows it. All three of which Del State has...

[R.A.]

First off UGA, GT and GSU are all Division I schools. Second, there is no comparable GT in the state of Delaware. The gap between UD and DSU is like the gap between UGA and GSU. Again, sorry you don't understand what an analogy is. xcoffeex

I'm sure Delaware State fans feel the same wayxrolleyesx Your analogy is flawed... still...

[89Hen]

I'm sure Delaware State fans feel the same wayxrolleyesx Your analogy is flawed... still...
Why don't you ask them.... if you can find any. xcoffeex

[89Hen]

ask them all about the Prince George's Classic that they played in held at Bowie State... ask them how many temp seats were around Bowie's small stadium field.

It's not such a hard thing to do if you have the space, resources, and the fire marshall allows it. All three of which Del State has...
5,000 added to the 5,000. STILL less than just the season ticket holders of UD. Next. xcoffeex

BTW, glad to know that I can call you if I have any questions about DSU's resources or the fire codes in Delaware.

[brownbear]

Delaware fans, you are not Georgia. Georgia is easily one of the top 15 football programs in the entire country. Delaware would not make the top 50 or even 75. The gap between Georgia and Georgia Southern is enormous and definitely larger than the UD-DSU gap.

By the way, we already determined that DSU seats 6000, not 3000, so the math is off, UD has triple DSU's capacity, but UGA has six times GSU's seating capacity.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

5,000 added to the 5,000. STILL less than just the season ticket holders of UD. Next. xcoffeex

BTW, glad to know that I can call you if I have any questions about DSU's resources or the fire codes in Delaware.

Conveniently forgotten in this discussion is the possibility that Delaware State could play a "home" game at Tubby Raymond Field... which is exactly what Villanova did with Franklin Field at Penn... which we know for a fact would hold all the fans who want to see this game... and would eliminate any issues of "travel"... and would be a great deal for UD... and be less costly that the other options for DSU... but then again, who am I? xrolleyesx

[89Hen]

Delaware fans, you are not Georgia. Georgia is easily one of the top 15 football programs in the entire country. Delaware would not make the top 50 or even 75. The gap between Georgia and Georgia Southern is enormous and definitely larger than the UD-DSU gap.

By the way, we already determined that DSU seats 6000, not 3000, so the math is off, UD has triple DSU's capacity, but UGA has six times GSU's seating capacity.
Cripes, I swear nobody has heard of an analogy. xbangx xbangx

OF COURSE UD IS NO UGA, BUT DSU IS NO GSU EITHER.

What was that Will Ferrell quote from Zoolander?... "I fell like I'm on crazy pills."

The numbers ARE NOT WRONG! The numbers I provided are directly from the NCAA attendance figures for UGA, GSU, UD and DSU. UGA/GSU has the same attendance percentage as UD/DSU. Your UGA/GT analogy wasn't remotely even close. xsmhx

[brownbear]

Cripes, I swear nobody has heard of an analogy. xbangx xbangx

OF COURSE UD IS NO UGA, BUT DSU IS NO GSU EITHER.

What was that Will Ferrell quote from Zoolander?... "I fell like I'm on crazy pills."

The numbers ARE NOT WRONG! The numbers I provided are directly from the NCAA attendance figures for UGA, GSU, UD and DSU. UGA/GSU has the same attendance percentage as UD/DSU. Your UGA/GT analogy wasn't remotely even close. xsmhx

I thought the issue was over stadium capacity, not average attendance.

[89Hen]

Conveniently forgotten in this discussion is the possibility that Delaware State could play a "home" game at Tubby Raymond Field... which is exactly what Villanova did with Franklin Field at Penn... which we know for a fact would hold all the fans who want to see this game... and would eliminate any issues of "travel"... and would be a great deal for UD... and be less costly that the other options for DSU... but then again, who am I? xrolleyesx
It's not conveniently forgotten, it's merely dismissed. You really think DSU would consider a game at the Tub to satisfy their desire for a home and home? I don't care what Villanova/Penn does. Franklin Field is a behemouth where both teams can have as many fans as they want. It's more like a neutral site game. I seriously doubt DSU would consider a game at the Tub satisfactory for their end of the home and home.

[HensRock]

we already determined that DSU seats 6000, not 3000, so the math is off.

Seating and Filling are two different animals. I think the analogy is perfectly valid as far as attendance goes. The only thing that you could argue against it is that UGA and GSU are in to different subclassifications while UD and DSU are not. Personally, I don't think that is as important as the attendance differential.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's not conveniently forgotten, it's merely dismissed. You really think DSU would consider a game at the Tub to satisfy their desire for a home and home? I don't care what Villanova/Penn does. Franklin Field is a behemouth where both teams can have as many fans as they want. It's more like a neutral site game. I seriously doubt DSU would consider a game at the Tub satisfactory for their end of the home and home.

One word: yes. Why? It's the least costly option, with good profit for everyone. No other option even comes close.

UD gives up the extra money of an extra home game, but recoups much of that in whatever deal both schools come up with. DSU could also get a bigger gate than they could in Dover (i.e. more "home" fans than their stands in Dover would allow).

As for what DSU finds acceptable, have you, or anyone in UD's brass, ever even opened discussions as to what DSU might find acceptable?

[AZGrizFan]

Del. State is where the scary black people congregate, where "those" types of folk go to college.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[89Hen]

I thought the issue was over stadium capacity, not average attendance.
The analogy of UGA/GSU is that UD has the same support vs DSU that UGA has compared to GSU (I'd actually argue that GSU has more than DSU comparitively, but I can't support that through stats).

The capacity question is that even UD's season ticket holders substantially outnumber the capacity at DSU. But even if you wanted to argue capacity, the numbers are still pretty close...

92,750 vs. 18,000 = 19%
22,000 vs. 5,000 = 25%

[89Hen]

The only thing that you could argue against it is that UGA and GSU are in to different subclassifications while UD and DSU are not. Personally, I don't think that is as important as the attendance differential.
Correct. Delaware and Navy are in different subclassifications while UD and LaSalle are not... yet which two programs are more closely matched.

[HIU 93]

The perenial A P O L O G I S T of all of things "black" xbawlingx

The perennial R A C I S T of UD.xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

As for what DSU finds acceptable, have you, or anyone in UD's brass, ever even opened discussions as to what DSU might find acceptable?
I haven't, but I'm also not UD brass.... however, did you read the article? Obviously UD and DSU brass HAVE talked about this. Your opinion that DSU would be happy with a "home game" at the Tub is just that, your opinion. It is also only my opinion that they wouldn't. Given that you can only come up with one example where a team plays at their opponents stadium and calls it a home game, I'm not sure you have much to support your opinion.

Delaware already plays one opponent at the Tub every single year and that opponent has never considered it a home game for them. FWIW, West Chester and DSU's programs are probably more comparable than UD and DSU. Before you say I'm being arrogant, think about it. So far this year WCUPA is averaging 3,500 fans per game, DSU is averaging 3,200 per game. WCUPA has been to the DII playoffs numerous times, DelSt has never made the I-AA field. I know it's hard to compare common opponents, but that's all we have to go on...

2005
West Chester 27 - Millersville 7
Delaware State 38 - Millersville 6

2001
West Chester 24 - Millersville 21
Delaware State 27 - Millersville 19

1997
West Chester 54 - Cheney 20
Delaware State 50 - Cheney 18

These really aren't that compelling, but IMO it does show that perhaps DelSt and West Chester are in fact pretty similar programs.

BTW, I really hate piling up this kind of info because I do not hate DelSt in any way. In fact, I'm pulling for them big time to make the playoffs. Also in fact, there are the only non-CAA team that I've ever used their helmet for an avatar. I think their program may be improving and perhaps in a couple years we can revisit this topic and the answers may be different. xpeacex

[lizrdgizrd]

Funny. It seems that some of the same AGSer's that agree with this sentiment when it comes to UD playing DSU dislike the SWAC specifically and HBCUs in general for playing "Classics" for the paycheck.xwhistlex


He's just trying to draw attention away from the fact that there is a legitimate reason for UD to not play DSU right now. xnonono2x

Although, if DSU can leverage this b!tchfest into a new stadium I say more power to 'em. xthumbsupx


I'm glad your arrogance makes you think you have any clue what I was doing.xnonox
xrolleyesx

I guess my arrogance blinds me to your logic. xnutsx What does people disliking HBCU classics have to do with the DSU - UD game (or non-game as it may be)? It's got absolutely nothing to do with the argument at hand. In fact, the classics may support the UD side of this argument.

Isn't the purpose of a classic to allow more fans to watch two HBCUs play a game that will bring in more money for both teams than a home-and-home game would? UD would loose money by playing at DSU. If there were an acceptable venue I would imagine both DSU and UD would come to an agreement for a game similar to an HBCU classic.

[andy7171]

Delaware draws @22K fans per home game.
Del State draws @3400.

Why would Delaware go out of their way, give up all the revenue from a home sell-out just to appease 3400 fans? If Del State wants to play Delaware, all they have to do is agree to play in Newark. It's that simple.

[brownbear]

Common Opponents (Not common opponents' opponents):

2005

Delaware 34, James Madison 28
James Madison 65, Delaware State 7

2004

Delaware 21, UMass 7
UMass 51, Delaware State 0

1995

Delaware 24, Rhode Island 19
Rhode Island 17, Delaware State 14

1994

Delaware 26, Rhode Island 7
Delaware State 28, Rhode Island 26

1993

Towson 32, Delaware 30
Towson 31, Delaware State 14

1992

Delaware 55, Towson 27
Delaware State 27, Towson 13

1986

Boston U. 45, Delaware 35
Delaware State 30, Boston U. 9

Delaware 35, Connecticut 7
Delaware State 32, Connecticut 31

1984

Delaware 32, James Madison 3
James Madison 20, Delaware State 19

Delaware 56, Towson 23
Delaware State 23, Towson 7

1983

Delaware 26, James Madison 23
Delaware State 38, James Madison 28

Towson 13, Delaware 4
Towson 23, Delaware State 15

1982

Delaware 51, Towson 7
Towson 24, Delaware State 7

Delaware 55, West Chester 13
West Chester 41, Delaware State 21

1981

Delaware 31, West Chester 14
West Chester 19, Delaware State 16

1980

Delaware 21, UMass 17
UMass 39, Delaware State 0

1978

Delaware 26, North Carolina A&T 0
Delaware State 9, North Carolina A&T 6

1977

29-29 Delaware-Morgan State
Delaware State 20, Morgan State 6

1971

Delaware 47, West Chester 8
West Chester 51, Delaware State 0

1970

Delaware 38, Morgan State 23
Morgan State 34, Delaware State 6

1968

Delaware 31, Indiana (PA) 24
Indiana (PA) 17, Delaware State 0

[89Hen]

Common Opponents (Not common opponents' opponents):

2005

Delaware 34, James Madison 28
James Madison 65, Delaware State 7

2004

Delaware 21, UMass 7
UMass 51, Delaware State 0
xnodx wait, I thought you were on the other side of this discussion. I'm more convinced than ever that DSU and WCUPA are on the same level.

[ChickenMan]

Common Opponents (Not common opponents' opponents):

2005

Delaware 34, James Madison 28
James Madison 65, Delaware State 7

2004

Delaware 21, UMass 7
UMass 51, Delaware State 0

1995

Delaware 24, Rhode Island 19
Rhode Island 17, Delaware State 14

1994

Delaware 26, Rhode Island 7
Delaware State 28, Rhode Island 26


Over the past 20+ years.. the sad fact is.. that West Chester was far more deserving of a home/home vs Delaware than was Del St.

[brownbear]

Now that I finished the list of all common games, there were a few times that Delaware State won and Delaware lost, but yes, Delaware was on top in most of those.

[OL FU]

Delaware draws @22K fans per home game.
Del State draws @3400.

Why would Delaware go out of their way, give up all the revenue from a home sell-out just to appease 3400 fans? If Del State wants to play Delaware, all they have to do is agree to play in Newark. It's that simple.

I also wonder why the simplest explanation is the one that people ignore. xeyebrowx

[89Hen]

Now that I finished the list of all common games, there were a few times that Delaware State won and Delaware lost
xeyebrowx I'd be interested to see that, I can't think of who that would be.... Towson perhaps. xeyebrowx

[89Hen]

1982
West Chester 41, Delaware State 21

1981
West Chester 19, Delaware State 16

1971
West Chester 51, Delaware State 0
xeekx I never realized they had actually met. The defense rests on that one. xbowx xbowx xbowx

[89Hen]

I also wonder why the simplest explanation is the one that people ignore. xeyebrowx
They don't understand analogies, what makes you think they'd understand Ockham's Razor?

[GannonFan]

Now that I finished the list of all common games, there were a few times that Delaware State won and Delaware lost, but yes, Delaware was on top in most of those.

??? Per your list, there is one example, in 1986, when UD lost to a team that DSU beat. Also per your list, there are 11 times that UD beat a team who then went on to beat DSU (and in many cases UD won big and DSU lost big).

[henfan]

xeekx I never realized they had actually met. The defense rests on that one. xbowx xbowx xbowx

In fairness, DSU was just transitioning up to D-I when they played WCUPA in '81/'82 AND DSU was probably at about the same level of equivalancies as the Rams at that point. In '71, both schools were in the same Small College classification. That '71 team was one of the worst in DSU's history. The '81 & '82 teams weren't great either. The Hornets program was in such shambles, Purczyki didn't get things running until his third year at the helm ('83.) Charles Henderson had really run that program into the ground.

I believe 2006 was the first time DSU has been at or near 65 equivalancies. Not that anyone here necessarily was, but it's ridiculous to try to make competitive comparisons between 2006/2007 WCUPA and Al Lavan's teams. I witnessed both teams play and they are a universe apart competitively. It's amazing what you can do when you invest in your FB program.xnodx

[Go...gate]

So Delaware's comparing themselves with Georgia??

Such arrogance from a wannabe Ivy...


I don't see that UD has compared itself with the Ivy League, though UD clearly has a fine academic reputation. Let's stay on topic here.

[OL FU]

I don't see that UD has compared itself with the Ivy League, though UD clearly has a fine academic reputation. Let's stay on topic here.

And they sure don't want to be Georgiaxeekx

[Go...gate]

Delaware draws @22K fans per home game.
Del State draws @3400.

Why would Delaware go out of their way, give up all the revenue from a home sell-out just to appease 3400 fans? If Del State wants to play Delaware, all they have to do is agree to play in Newark. It's that simple.

Colgate has operated with this philosophy for only about 117 years. Nobody really ever wanted to play us in Hamilton, so we were predominately the visiting team. IMO, it helped us build a durable program - and we have won more than our share of those road games.

[89Hen]

Not that anyone here necessarily was, but it's ridiculous to try to make competitive comparisons between 2006/2007 WCUPA and Al Lavan's teams. I witnessed both teams play and they are a universe apart competitively. It's amazing what you can do when you invest in your FB program.xnodx
Not sure we can tell. DSU has improved under Lavan, but hasn't WCUPA improved under Zwann? Three straight trips to the playoffs and probably a fourth coming this year. We've seen that the top DII teams can compete with much of I-AA... I don't think DSU and WCUPA are as far apart as you think.

[gr8ness97]

just thought I'd point out the Georgia/ Ga. Southern point is moot, since BCS teams arent allow to travel to FCS schools...

As for the Dover Downs issue, didnt Michigan State and Kentucky play in at Ford Field in Detroit one year...

Of course, I've been to Delaware...

carry on

(P.S., love the WSSU references lol)

[89Hen]

just thought I'd point out the Georgia/ Ga. Southern point is moot, since BCS teams arent allow to travel to FCS schools...

carry on
They didn't when they were allowed, but thanks.

[HIU 93]

xrolleyesx

I guess my arrogance blinds me to your logic. xnutsx What does people disliking HBCU classics have to do with the DSU - UD game (or non-game as it may be)?

Comprehension isn't your strong point, huh?xlolx

Let me see if I can break it down for you. UD defenders say they won't play DSU because they can't make any money doing so.

The HBCUs tend to play classics for profit.

Some of the same folks who say "UD is right..." for making a decision in the best financial interest of the school ALSO SAY that "HBCUs are wrong..." for making decisions that are in the best interest of the schools.

That is what one would call speaking with forked tounge.

[89Hen]

Some of the same folks who say "UD is right..." for making a decision in the best financial interest of the school ALSO SAY that "HBCUs are wrong..." for making decisions that are in the best interest of the schools.
Still not sure to whom you are referring. You said it wasn't me or several others.

[lizrdgizrd]

Comprehension isn't your strong point, huh?xlolx

Let me see if I can break it down for you. UD defenders say they won't play DSU because they can't make any money doing so.

The HBCUs tend to play classics for profit.

Some of the same folks who say "UD is right..." for making a decision in the best financial interest of the school ALSO SAY that "HBCUs are wrong..." for making decisions that are in the best interest of the schools.

That is what one would call speaking with forked tounge.
You have yet to argue any of the salient points in this discussion with anyone who has derided the HBCU practice of playing classics for money. Thus your contention that it has any bearing on the conversation is sadly mistaken.

If you were arguing with those who dislike the classics I could see how this point would be pertinent. You're not so it's not.

[henfan]

Not sure we can tell. DSU has improved under Lavan, but hasn't WCUPA improved under Zwann? Three straight trips to the playoffs and probably a fourth coming this year. We've seen that the top DII teams can compete with much of I-AA... I don't think DSU and WCUPA are as far apart as you think.

Well, we've seen full equivalancy D-II programs compete with a few FCS programs lately. You just aren't going to see a lot of reduced equivalancy D-II programs like WCUPA & its PSAC mates compete because of the huge difference in aid (19 equivalancies vs. 63.) The PSAC hasn't even faired all that well in the D-II realm once they step outside of the East region.

The 2006 & 2007 version of Del State would absolutely level WCUPA or any team from the PSAC you'd throw at them. The odds would be very long that WCUPA could compete with any Top 25 FCS team at this point in their history. Granted, Zwann has done a nice job with what he has to work with up there, but still...

I've seen WCUPA & DSU play and, trust me, there is absolutely ZERO comparison this year or last. DSU's OL & DL are so much bigger, faster, stronger than WCUPA, as are their skill players. On top of it, DSU has exceptional special teams (a hallmark of Lavan's program) and the kind of depth that WCUPA just doesn't have. IMO, it's silly to even try to compare them.

But what do I know? I'm no talent scout. Watch the Hornets on ESPNU on Thursday and judge for yourself.

[BlueHen86]

Comprehension isn't your strong point, huh?xlolx

Let me see if I can break it down for you. UD defenders say they won't play DSU because they can't make any money doing so.

The HBCUs tend to play classics for profit.

Some of the same folks who say "UD is right..." for making a decision in the best financial interest of the school ALSO SAY that "HBCUs are wrong..." for making decisions that are in the best interest of the schools.
That is what one would call speaking with forked tounge.

And what is your position here? You have been arguing that UD should play DSU. Are you against 'Classics'? Or are you speaking parseltongue?xlolx

[89Hen]

DSU's OL & DL are so much bigger, faster, stronger than WCUPA, as are their skill players.
IIRC DelSt has ALWAYS had giant linemen (ie Jamaal Jackson)... but that never meant much.

[ChickenMan]

I agree that Del St would hammer West Chester.. this year.

[R.A.]

Still arguing...

[SunCoastBlueHen]

One thing for sure, articles like the one Pearlman wrote are nothing but destructive to race relations. It was an antagonistic article and the only thing it accomplished was provoking black and white into yelling at each other, pointing and yelling "racist"(as evidenced by this thread). I think it has been well argued in this thread that Delaware is more concerned about dollars and cents than race relations. Delaware has ALWAYS been about money - I don't think anyone could argue that. I believe Mr. Pearlman wrote this article trying to find controversy hoping to boost his own career in the process. He is the worst kind of journalist.

[brownbear]

For people who want to use the common opponents, how about this from 2006:

Delaware State beat Concord
Concord beat West Liberty State
West Liberty State beat Duquesne
Duquesne beat Fordham
Fordham beat Albany
Albany beat Delaware

or the opposite:

Delaware beat Richmond
Richmond beat Northeastern
Northeastern beat New Hampshire
New Hampshire beat Hampton
Hampton beat Delaware State

[BlueHen86]

For people who want to use the common opponents, how about this from 2006:

Delaware State beat Concord
Concord beat West Liberty State
West Liberty State beat Duquesne
Duquesne beat Fordham
Fordham beat Albany
Albany beat Delaware

or the opposite:

Delaware beat Richmond
Richmond beat Northeastern
Northeastern beat New Hampshire
New Hampshire beat Hampton
Hampton beat Delaware State
Can you do some research and find the common opponents for Brown beating Kevin Bacon?
How about the other way around?xlolx

[RadMann]

I looked up Michigan's all-time series versus the other FBS programs in that state and UM has played Central and Western Michigan only once or twice. I'm sure you can find other examples all over the country. Just because you are in the same state and at the same "level" does not mean you need to play. This whole discussion is going nowhere. The UD admin sees much more favorable scheduling options. So be it. Don't take it personally. Move on to the next topic...

[BlueHen86]

Still arguing...
Found this on another thread:


The MEAC hasn't been able to get own act together.

I support actions that help institutions develop and grow.

If the MEAC is limiting SCSU in any way, the SCSU needs to do what is best for their school.

And I promise you that this statement from SCSU's Board is a direct result of the MEAC's halt on conference expansion.

The conference expansion was going to reduce travel costs for SCSU, by adding NCCU and SSU.

I guess in your fantasy world of immaculately conceived DSU endzone seating this rule doesn't apply to UD.
You must be one of those forked tongue people that HIU93 referenced.xlolx

[brownbear]

Can you do some research and find the common opponents for Brown beating Kevin Bacon?
How about the other way around?xlolx

Last year, Brown beat Cornell
Cornell beat Dartmouth
Dartmouth is the basis for "Animal House"
In "Animal House," Kevin Bacon gets beaten with a paddle when he is initiated into Omega house.

[BlueHen86]

Last year, Brown beat Cornell
Cornell beat Dartmouth
Dartmouth is the basis for "Animal House"
In "Animal House," Kevin Bacon gets beaten with a paddle when he is initiated into Omega house.
"Thank you sir! May I have another?"xlolx
xthumbsupx

[Punchykky]

If UD is too scared to play DSU, then that's their problem.xlolx

[henfan]

One thing for sure, articles like the one Pearlman wrote are nothing but destructive to race relations... I believe Mr. Pearlman wrote this article trying to find controversy hoping to boost his own career in the process. He is the worst kind of journalist.

I respectfully disagree on both counts.

Dialogue is not destructive. The most destructive type of conversations are the ones that never take place.

None of us know Pearlman's intentions in writing the article. I highly doubt he believed an article about two comparatively obscure D-I FB programs was going to have any effect whatsoever on this career, especially since the guy has penned dozens of other articles for national publications & books on topics more relevant to most sports fans. He probably knew it would cause a fuss in the next to the smallest state in the country, without question. My guess is that Pearlman felt passionately about the topic and was frustrated by his alma mater's lack of effort and cooperation over many years. (Welcome aboard, Jeff.) I don't agree with all of the conclusions Pearlman reaches but credit him for speaking out when he could have played it safe and not written about it at all.

Right or wrong, agree or disagree, some of the things Pearlman discusses have been talked about in Delaware for many years in many different ways. He published nothing new, ASAIC, and that's why it's so comical to see some people's over-the-top reaction to the article, like it's the first time this topic's ever been brought up.

[GannonFan]

I respectfully disagree on both counts.

Dialogue is not destructive. The most destructive type of conversations are the ones that never take place.

None of us know Pearlman's intentions in writing the article. I highly doubt he believed an article about two comparatively obscure D-I FB programs was going to have any effect whatsoever on this career, especially since the guy has penned dozens of other articles for national publications & books on topics more relevant to most sports fans. He probably knew it would cause a fuss in the next to the smallest state in the country, without question. My guess is that Pearlman felt passionately about the topic and was frustrated by his alma mater's lack of effort and cooperation over many years. (Welcome aboard, Jeff.) I don't agree with all of the conclusions Pearlman reaches but credit him for speaking out when he could have played it safe and not written about it at all.

Right or wrong, agree or disagree, some of the things Pearlman discusses have been talked about in Delaware for many years in many different ways. He published nothing new, ASAIC, and that's why it's so comical to see some people's over-the-top reaction to the article, like it's the first time this topic's ever been brought up.

Come on, HF, you know better than that. Most of the people who were upset with Pearlman's article were upset at the reckless, and completely unsupported argument, that UD was racist. Pearlman threw a big blanket over everything UD and almost made it out to be a den of the KKK. And considering that his venue for doing that was a national web site, that's what rankled most people - people who have no knowledge whatsoever of Delaware or the two schools involved would now only have Pearlman's slanted opinion piece that paints UD to be a hotbed of racism. I know that you disagree with this premise of his, at least the wide range of it, but you seem to ignore that since he promotes a game you have always championed. I just think it's a bit odd to wink and give a pass to an egregious piece of slander simply because it could effect a change on a football schedule. Kinda like taking a blowtorch to kill a fly. xpeacex

[Punchykky]

Maybe the racism issue was taking it over the top, then again, maybe not. But UD needs to come up with a better explanation of why they won't schedule DSU. It's not as if as though DSU's team is a punk on the football field. They could make so much money, for both schools!:D And if UD loses the game?xeekx

[BlueHen86]

Maybe the racism issue was taking it over the top, then again, maybe not. But UD needs to come up with a better explanation of why they won't schedule DSU. It's not as if as though DSU's team is a punk on the football field. They could make so much money, for both schools!:D And if UD loses the game?xeekx
Have you read this thread? Tell us how UD would make money playing at DSU. UD plays at Maryland next year. Can DSU pay out as much as Maryland?

[ChickenMan]

It's not as if as though DSU's team is a punk on the football field.

But they were until very recently... up until last two years.. Del St would have been no more competitive vs UD than was DII West Chester.

[henfan]

Most of the people who were upset with Pearlman's article were upset at the reckless, and completely unsupported argument, that UD was racist. Pearlman threw a big blanket over everything UD and almost made it out to be a den of the KKK.

I'm not going to defend Pearlman's opinion because it's his and not one I necessarily share, at least not wholly. I do defend Pearlman's right to offer an opinion, no matter how much I disagree with it. Frankly, I think there are grains of truth in what he writes and, I believe, that's why some people have reacted so defensively to it, not because it was unsupported, reckless or attacked UD directly. And, honestly, this article will largely go unnoticed by the public and will not affect a majority of the public's opinions of either school.

IMO, Pearlman's only mistake was writing the article out of frustration and bringing up an issue that, though it may contain kernels of truth, has little relevance to why the two teams can't play now. If the unintended consequence of the article is that the two schools begin talking to one another, then maybe some good can come out of this afterall. Given Rick Costello's recent comments, that remains to be seen.

[henfan]

But they were until very recently... up until last two years.. Del St would have been no more competitive vs UD than was DII West Chester.

I think that's very true through much of the '90's, even with WCUPA's deemphasis on FB; however, that would not have been the case from the mid-80's through early '90's or during Lavan's tenure.

What hurt DSU in the '90's was then Pres. DeLauder's utter disregard towards athletics. FB scholarships were cut back to 42 by the mid 1990s and the school continue to let its already aging facilities deteriorate. In the process, DSU managed to turn off many die-hard Hornet supporters, who had been the life blood of the FB program. Losing never helps.

Things are beginning to come around again, but a lot of damage was done during the last decade. DSU is now at or near 65 scholarships, they're putting money into Alumni Field, they have very good coaches and it's beginning to show on the field. If they keep winning, maybe some of the alums who have stayed away from Hornet FB will come back. They have a lot of potential & momentum if the school admin doesn't find a way to screw it up again.

[GannonFan]

I'm not going to defend Pearlman's opinion because it's his and not one I necessarily share, at least not wholly. I do defend Pearlman's right to offer an opinion, no matter how much I disagree with it. Frankly, I think there are grains of truth in what he writes and, I believe, that's why some people have reacted so defensively to it, not because it was unsupported, reckless or attacked UD directly. And, honestly, this article will largely go unnoticed by the public and will not affect a majority of the public's opinions of either school.

IMO, Pearlman's only mistake was writing the article out of frustration and bringing up an issue that, though it may contain kernels of truth, have little relevance to why the two teams can't play now. If the unintended consequence of the article is that the two schools begin talking to one another, then maybe some good can come out of this afterall. Given Rick Costello's recent comments, that remains to be seen.


The thing is, "kernels of truth" doesn't really amount to the truth. When he says the situation "oozes with racism" and calls UD "lilly white" he starts to leave any connection to the truth. Certainly race was a factor when DSU was formed in the early 1900's, but that's about the last factual thing he got right. Though he doesn't actually connect UD with his own commentary that DSU is where "the scary black people go", he certainly intends it with how he wrote that section. Opinion is one thing, pointed slander is another.

As with regards to the exposure of such an article, I disagree a little with that as well. Surely Page 2 on the ESPN website is far from the front page of the NYT, but the reach is more than you like to admit it is. How many people on these boards have seen the article, heck, from the comments in this thread alone it's clear that some take a lot of stock in what that article said. And this isn't the only message board it found. How many FB recruits, when looking where to go, could google UD football and see this article?

When it comes down to it, I know you agree with his idea that the two football teams should play. But like I said, to take out the big ugly stick of racism and write an entire article that slanders UD and basically says that racism is 99% the issue, that's where he's reckless and that's where many people in opposition to the article come from.

We don't play DSU because UD is elitist and snobbish. Not too many people would contest that or even get upset about it. xthumbsupx

[Seahawks Fan]

We don't play DSU because UD is elitist and snobbish. Not too many people would contest that or even get upset about it. xthumbsupx

End of story. Let's move on.

[lizrdgizrd]

Maybe the racism issue was taking it over the top, then again, maybe not. But UD needs to come up with a better explanation of why they won't schedule DSU. It's not as if as though DSU's team is a punk on the football field. They could make so much money, for both schools!:D And if UD loses the game?xeekx
Do they teach reading comprehension at Norfolk State? Or were you too lazy to read the thread? xnutsx

[MR. CHICKEN]

DELAWARE ISN'T DOIN' ANYTHIN'.....DAT MONTANA DOESN'T DO.........O' MARSHALL (USED TA DO)........DEMAND HOME GAMES!.......xrotatehx....AWQ/[email protected]!

GET SOME REAL FANS....AN YE MIGHT GET HOMERS TOO!

[Punchykky]

Have you read this thread? Tell us how UD would make money playing at DSU. UD plays at Maryland next year. Can DSU pay out as much as Maryland?

xrolleyesx You don't have to play DSU at DSU. They'd be happy to smack UD in the mouth @ UD!xlolx Or any neutral spot!xlolx And you can still have your money game with Maryland as well!:D

[Punchykky]

Do they teach reading comprehension at Norfolk State? Or were you too lazy to read the thread? xnutsx

xrolleyesx Yes, they do teach it, I'm sure. But this thread is what 30 something pages long? So heyall yes I'm too lazy to read the whole thread! What's it to you?xrolleyesx

[Punchykky]

The thing is, "kernels of truth" doesn't really amount to the truth. When he says the situation "oozes with racism" and calls UD "lilly white" he starts to leave any connection to the truth. Certainly race was a factor when DSU was formed in the early 1900's, but that's about the last factual thing he got right. Though he doesn't actually connect UD with his own commentary that DSU is where "the scary black people go", he certainly intends it with how he wrote that section. Opinion is one thing, pointed slander is another.

As with regards to the exposure of such an article, I disagree a little with that as well. Surely Page 2 on the ESPN website is far from the front page of the NYT, but the reach is more than you like to admit it is. How many people on these boards have seen the article, heck, from the comments in this thread alone it's clear that some take a lot of stock in what that article said. And this isn't the only message board it found. How many FB recruits, when looking where to go, could google UD football and see this article?

When it comes down to it, I know you agree with his idea that the two football teams should play. But like I said, to take out the big ugly stick of racism and write an entire article that slanders UD and basically says that racism is 99% the issue, that's where he's reckless and that's where many people in opposition to the article come from.

We don't play DSU because UD is elitist and snobbish. Not too many people would contest that or even get upset about it. xthumbsupx

Well,,,,at least I know where you stand on the issue. And I can definitely respect that!xthumbsupx

[blukeys]

xrolleyesx Yes, they do teach it, I'm sure. But this thread is what 30 something pages long? So heyall yes I'm too lazy to read the whole thread! What's it to you?xrolleyesx

Are you really from Norfolk State?? or are you from Hampton and just want to make Norfolk State look bad???

[Cap'n Cat]

Jesus Christ!

Just play them already, Delaware!!!!!!


xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex

[Go...gate]

This is becoming one of the longest AGS threads ever....xrotatehx

[Punchykky]

Are you really from Norfolk State?? or are you from Hampton and just want to make Norfolk State look bad???

Man, I'm just talkin' siht!xlolx I'm really from NSU, class of 1990. I'd like to see UD play DSU, but if it never happens, the world won't stop spinning, well,,,at least my world won't stop spinning!xlolx I just see it as a tremendous money making machine, that's all.xnodx I mean, the way I see it, if UD and DSU play each other at a neutral spot, or at UD, they could probably make 300k or 400k per team, which is around the same thing you'd get playing a FBS school. But as I said earlier, it's just wishful thinking.xthumbsupx

[ChickenMan]

Jesus Christ!

Just play them already, Delaware!!!!!!


xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex


Nov 24th.. Del St @ Delaware.. 1st round of the playoffs...

[89Hen]

I just see it as a tremendous money making machine, that's all.xnodx I mean, the way I see it, if UD and DSU play each other at a neutral spot, or at UD, they could probably make 300k or 400k per team
Ahh, yet another person with no ties to Delaware making incredible predictions.

[Punchykky]

Ahh, yet another person with no ties to Delaware making incredible predictions.

xrolleyesx Ahhh, yet another non-believer. Tell me why you think UD and DSU couldn't make money playing each other playing @UD or a neutral spot? I know I'd pay money to see this game myself(provided my NSU isn't playing somewhere close to me at the same time/day).

[Seahawks Fan]

This is becoming one of the longest AGS threads ever....xrotatehx


oh how I miss the Counting Thread. :D

[henfan]

The thing is, "kernels of truth" doesn't really amount to the truth. When he says the situation "oozes with racism" and calls UD "lilly white" he starts to leave any connection to the truth... Opinion is one thing, pointed slander is another...

Surely Page 2 on the ESPN website is far from the front page of the NYT, but the reach is more than you like to admit it is. How many people on these boards have seen the article...

When it comes down to it, I know you agree with his idea that the two football teams should play. But like I said, to take out the big ugly stick of racism and write an entire article that slanders UD and basically says that racism is 99% the issue, that's where he's reckless and that's where many people in opposition to the article come from.

I'm not sure any of us, least of all Pearlman, really know what the truth is. There are a few people at UD who do and they aren't talking. Until they break honest, 'truth' will continue to be in the eye of the beholder.

Both you and I and many others suspect that race couldn't possibly be the reason for these two teams not meeting at this late date. It seems improbable to us, but we really don't know for sure. We are aware that the public face UD presents is one of diversity and inclusion. Without question we alums are very proud of the great strides in the last 17 years towards those goals. What we don't know are the inner workings of the UD, who really controls certain decisions, etc. I was floored to find that the Board of Trustees had the temerity to insert themselves into the decision to not play DSU in FB in the '80's. Why in God's name were they involved in that sort of minuate, when there was no record of them being involved in similar decisions where other opponents were concerned? (Incidentally, that fact really flies in the face of a particular UD trustee's comment, which appears to be less than honest.)

We all know the influence that money has at universities. Who's to say a group of well-heeled UD FB benefactors with a particular prejudice (social, racial or otherwise) don't have a specific agenda towards DSU FB? Certainly you can't say that without a doubt, nor can I. IMO, that theory is no less wacky than Pearlman's editorial or the UD's long offered "no room on the schedule" excuse.

As for the ESPN.com's reach, I disagree. Maybe I just have a limited perspective. I consider myself a sports fan and I wouldn't have known about the article at all unless several second parties directed me to it via message boards, mailing lists and ultimately, the local newspaper. I'd venture a guess that an incredibly small percentage of the population (i.e.- those not participating in FCS message boards or following the DE media) have any clue about Pearlman's article or the entire issue.

Personally, I don't think any of the history, no matter how innocent or sordid, should have anything to do with the future of a potential game. I'm anxious to overlook the ugliness of it all and get the two teams playing some FB, as they should have done many, many moons ago. And with that hope I'm pxssing up a rope, I know.

[BlueHen86]

Man, I'm just talkin' siht!xlolx I'm really from NSU, class of 1990. I'd like to see UD play DSU, but if it never happens, the world won't stop spinning, well,,,at least my world won't stop spinning!xlolx I just see it as a tremendous money making machine, that's all.xnodx I mean, the way I see it, if UD and DSU play each other at a neutral spot, or at UD, they could probably make 300k or 400k per team, which is around the same thing you'd get playing a FBS school. But as I said earlier, it's just wishful thinking.xthumbsupx

Lets see: $400,000 x 2 teams = $800,000.
$800,000 divided by #seats at UD (22,000) = $36.36 per ticket.
Yeah, that works.xnutsx

Or were you factoring in the pay per view amount?xconfusedx

[Go...gate]

Lets see: $400,000 x 2 teams = $800,000.
$800,000 divided by #seats at UD (22,000) = $36.36 per ticket.
Yeah, that works.xnutsx

Or were you factoring in the pay per view amount?xconfusedx

They way things look, this is going to be addressed in this year's playoffs. Question is whether there will be any more games after that.

[Punchykky]

Lets see: $400,000 x 2 teams = $800,000.
$800,000 divided by #seats at UD (22,000) = $36.36 per ticket.
Yeah, that works.xnutsx

Or were you factoring in the pay per view amount?xconfusedx

xrolleyesx Do you all have to pay for parking? What about concession stands? Do you all sell alcohol(beer)? Do you think ESPNU would be interested in the possibilities? Does UD have 22k at every home game on the average? The 400k for both teams was an estimation. DSU would probably be happy to visit UD for 200k!

[89Hen]

Does UD have 22k at every home game on the average?
You may want to go back and read this thread afterall... xcoffeex

[89Hen]

xrolleyesx Ahhh, yet another non-believer. Tell me why you think UD and DSU couldn't make money playing each other playing @UD or a neutral spot? I know I'd pay money to see this game myself(provided my NSU isn't playing somewhere close to me at the same time/day).
xcoffeex See above. You really don't know enough about UD or the state to really comment on this.

[BlueHen86]

xrolleyesx Do you all have to pay for parking? What about concession stands? Do you all sell alcohol(beer)? Do you think ESPNU would be interested in the possibilities? Does UD have 22k at every home game on the average? The 400k for both teams was an estimation. DSU would probably be happy to visit UD for 200k!

You really need to read the whole thread. You might actually learn something.

[Punchykky]

xcoffeex See above. You really don't know enough about UD or the state to really comment on this.

OK; so the state is really that bad on attendance?

[Seahawks Fan]

http://ag.udel.edu/pasturesandhay/images/phheader.jpg


http://ag.udel.edu/pasturesandhay/

[lizrdgizrd]

xrolleyesx Yes, they do teach it, I'm sure. But this thread is what 30 something pages long? So heyall yes I'm too lazy to read the whole thread! What's it to you?xrolleyesx
You just show your ignorance. Your points have all been refuted by keener minds than yours (or mine for that matter) and all you have to do is read the thread to see why it's not going to work. xnonono2x

[BlueHen86]

OK; so the state is really that bad on attendance?
You can't be this stupid.

You must be a troll.
Now get back under your bridge, you have goats to scare.

[89Hen]

OK; so the state is really that bad on attendance?
xreadx the thread

[Punchykky]

You just show your ignorance. Your points have all been refuted by keener minds than yours (or mine for that matter) and all you have to do is read the thread to see why it's not going to work. xnonono2x

It takes an ignorant one to know an ignorant one.

[Punchykky]

You can't be this stupid.

You must be a troll.
Now get back under your bridge, you have goats to scare.

xrolleyesx So now we're calling people names, right? You azzwipe.

[Punchykky]

xreadx the thread

Thank you for a decent response. I'll do that whenever I have an hour to spare!xthumbsupx

[BlueHen86]

You can't be this stupid.

You must be a troll.
Now get back under your bridge, you have goats to scare.


xrolleyesx So now we're calling people names, right? You azzwipe.

I was wrong. You are that stupid.

[Punchykky]

I was wrong. You are that stupid.

So are you, so are you.

[lizrdgizrd]

It takes an ignorant one to know an ignorant one.
It's true! I was ignorant until I read this thread. Why don't you try it? xrolleyesx

[BlueHen86]

So are you, so are you.
No I'm not. You are.:p xlolx

[Punchykky]

It's true! I was ignorant until I read this thread. Why don't you try it? xrolleyesx

xrolleyesx Try reading my response 3 or 4 threads up, and you'll have my response.

[Punchykky]

No I'm not. You are.:p xlolx

xlolx

[R.A.]

Jeff Pearlman will be speaking to Charlie Neal and Jay Walker duing the 2nd Half of tonight's ESPNU broadcast of the B-CU/ DSU game!!

[gr8ness97]

lol i was bout to say that RA

[R.A.]

lol i was bout to say that RA

Of course you were gr8ness, our minds think alikexsmiley_wix xthumbsupx

[Henny]

unfortunatly Pearman spent 4 years in Newark 20 years ago and has no idea how us Delawareans feel. When the Hens have gone to the playoffs DSU athletic Dept. took a page out wishing the Hens good luck.

Likewise we support the Hornets regardless of what the AD does.

[RadMann]

Agreed, hopefully the teams meet in the playoffs and then we can put this whole thing to rest.....

[R.A.]

Agreed, hopefully the teams meet in the playoffs and then we can put this whole thing to rest.....

The NCAA scheduling a game isn't the same as UD and DSU coming together and scheduling a game.

And the debate won't end until UD plays at DSU... it's only an hour away...

[Seahawks Fan]

Agreed, hopefully the teams meet in the playoffs and then we can put this whole thing to rest.....


How so? Because the NCAA selection committee forces a game? Come on.

[BlueHen86]

End of story. Let's move on.


How so? Because the NCAA selection committee forces a game? Come on.

xconfusedx

[MR. CHICKEN]

UH GAME'S UH GAME.........WE PLAY 'EM IN DUH P-OFFS........KICK DUH HONEY OUTTAH DERE HIVES........DEY WHIMPERAH....BACK TA DOVERAH.....AN' START FUSSIN'...'BOUT...HOW...DOVERAH HIGH....WON'T PLAY 'EM..........xrotatehx......DOODLE-DOO-DOO!


WOULDN'T UH PLAY-OFF GAME BE DUH ULTIMATE.....WAY.....FO' DIS GAME TA COME 'BOUT.........'STEAD UH 0-6.....BUZZ ATTACK....VS.....6-0.......CAA.............BUZZ SAW..........IN.....2012?????????............AWK!

[zymergy]

I lived in Delaware my whole life, and trust me when I say there is only a small group of people who really care if UD and DSU play that game. The people who scream the most generally have another motive.

Yes I think they should play, but unless it replaces the long standing West Chester game as a yearly match up it is a pointless endeavor. One game (playoffs) would be a nice start, but shouldn't be used a gauge to compare the teams. Just schedule it so we can stop beating this poor dead horse.
xdeadhorsex
xpopcornx

[YoUDeeMan]

The NCAA scheduling a game isn't the same as UD and DSU coming together and scheduling a game.

And the debate won't end until UD plays at DSU... it's only an hour away...

Gosh, what an intelligent, well thought out thing to suggest. xnutsx

henfan...taking notice of some of these comments or will you continue to insist that there will not be any pressure for the Hens to play a game in Dover? xeyebrowx

Pressure from people with other agendas, mind you, but that is already plain to see. xcoffeex

[YoUDeeMan]

I'm not going to defend Pearlman's opinion because it's his and not one I necessarily share, at least not wholly. I do defend Pearlman's right to offer an opinion, no matter how much I disagree with it.

Nice dodge.

Would you be just as willing to defend ESPN printing an article from a member of the KKK asking schools to stop playing minorities on their football teams? xeyebrowx

Pearlman clearly slandered UD without a single bit of proof to back his central theme that UD is racist for not wanting a game with DSU.

He is a fool. And anyone defending his article is just looking to support their own personal agenda.

Any means to an end...xnonono2x xnonox

[MR. CHICKEN]

xrolleyesxxcoolx;)xcoolxxrolleyesx

[MR. CHICKEN]

xrolleyesx;)xcoolx;)xrolleyesx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://ag.udel.edu/pasturesandhay/images/phheader.jpg


http://ag.udel.edu/pasturesandhay/

xlolx xlolx xlolx

I thought this was the Bucknell web site for a second!

[MR. CHICKEN]

xrolleyesx ;) xcoolx ;) xrolleyesx

[Punchykky]

Nice dodge.

Would you be just as willing to defend ESPN printing an article from a member of the KKK asking schools to stop playing minorities on their football teams? xeyebrowx

Pearlman clearly slandered UD without a single bit of proof to back his central theme that UD is racist for not wanting a game with DSU.

He is a fool. And anyone defending his article is just looking to support their own personal agenda.

Any means to an end...xnonono2x xnonox

I heard that. And I truly do respect your opinion, too!xthumbsupx But then again, maybe he made his statement because it dosen't make sense for the only 2 FCS schools in the whole state to not schedule each other in football, either.

[BlueHen86]

I heard that. And I truly do respect your opinion, too!xthumbsupx But then again, maybe he made his statement because it dosen't make sense for the only 2 FCS schools in the whole state to not schedule each other in football, either.

Have you read the thread yet?xconfusedx

[lizrdgizrd]

I heard that. And I truly do respect your opinion, too!xthumbsupx But then again, maybe he made his statement because it dosen't make sense for the only 2 FCS schools in the whole state to not schedule each other in football, either.


Have you read the thread yet?xconfusedx
I love the way he keeps piping up without having read any of the extensive reasoning that refutes his position. xnonono2x

[Punchykky]

Have you read the thread yet?xconfusedx

Yes I have.

[Punchykky]

I love the way he keeps piping up without having read any of the extensive reasoning that refutes his position. xnonono2x


I've read the whole post.

[andy7171]

I want to know why no one has mentioned why Widener is being left out from this conversation. Del State has been ducking them for decades! Friggin hypocrties!

[lizrdgizrd]

I've read the whole post.
So you know understand why UD is willing to play at home but that DSU will only accept a home-and-home?

[BlueHen86]

I want to know why no one has mentioned why Widener is being left out from this conversation. Del State has been ducking them for decades! Friggin hypocrties!
You mean Wesley right?

Del State has been ducking them for a long time. Everyone in Dover wants to see that game. Both teams could easily make $400,000 if that game were played.xrolleyesx

[Punchykky]

So you know understand why UD is willing to play at home but that DSU will only accept a home-and-home?

Of course I understand that. I understood that from the beginning. DSU's stadium is too small. But I thought that DSU would be willing to play UD at UD or a neutral site. xeekx I never meant for UD to play DSU @ DSU!xeekx

[Punchykky]

You mean Wesley right?

Del State has been ducking them for a long time. Everyone in Dover wants to see that game. Both teams could easily make $400,000 if that game were played.xrolleyesx


This Wesley College, or University,,,,is it a FCS school? I've never heard of them.

[Punchykky]

I want to know why no one has mentioned why Widener is being left out from this conversation. Del State has been ducking them for decades! Friggin hypocrties!

Where is Widener located? Are they FCS?

[lizrdgizrd]

Of course I understand that. I understood that from the beginning. DSU's stadium is too small. But I thought that DSU would be willing to play UD at home or a neutral site. xeekx I never meant for UD to play DSU @ DSU!xeekx
Well it turns out that DSU won't accept less than a home-and-home and there's no neutral site in Delaware that would work so looks like it's DSU's fault that this game won't get played outside of the playoffs.

[andy7171]

You mean Wesley right?

Del State has been ducking them for a long time. Everyone in Dover wants to see that game. Both teams could easily make $400,000 if that game were played.xrolleyesx

No Widener in Wilmington. Theys till play football there don't they? I was joking.

[Punchykky]

Well it turns out that DSU won't accept less than a home-and-home and there's no neutral site in Delaware that would work so looks like it's DSU's fault that this game won't get played outside of the playoffs.

xcoolx Well, then I guess under those circumstances it's all on DSU.

[BlueHen86]

No Widener in Wilmington. Theys till play football there don't they? I was joking.

Me too.xnodx Wesley is in Dover and they are a good DIII school but they are no match for DSU.

Wesley beat Widener 31 - 17 last month.

[andy7171]

Where is Widener located? Are they FCS?
In Wilmington, DE. One of my high school teammates went there and played football. They're just D.III. I was joking. This topic is more tired than some of the "Conks and Donks" arguements.

BTW, where in Laurel are you? I went to school there.

[andy7171]

Me too.xnodx Wesley is in Dover and they are a good DIII school but they are no match for DSU.

Wesley beat Widener 31 - 17 last month.

Well let's throw in Delaware Valley College too! Sure they aren't actually IN Delaware, but it seems people one on side of this arguement only want the name match ups anyway.

[Punchykky]

In Wilmington, DE. One of my high school teammates went there and played football. They're just D.III. I was joking. This topic is more tired than some of the "Conks and Donks" arguements.

BTW, where in Laurel are you? I went to school there.

I live right off Cherry Lane! Just moved here in 2004. Nice area; everything's within a 5 minute drive.xthumbsupx

[andy7171]

I live right off Cherry Lane! Just moved here in 2004. Nice area; everything's within a 5 minute drive.xthumbsupx

I went to Pallotti HS over in the Main Street area of Laurel. You're over by the malls and the hated Laurel HS! I stomped all around your area back in the late 80's!

[brownbear]

Widener has a law school in Wilmington, but their main campus (where they play football) is in Chester, Pennsylvania.

[R.A.]

Gosh, what an intelligent, well thought out thing to suggest. xnutsx

henfan...taking notice of some of these comments or will you continue to insist that there will not be any pressure for the Hens to play a game in Dover? xeyebrowx

Pressure from people with other agendas, mind you, but that is already plain to see. xcoffeex

xlolx xrotatehx Wait, you can already see that the final piece in my plan for world domination is to have the Hens play the Hornets at Alumni Stadium, thus forcing a shifting of the societal classes resulting in me leading a new age in world history??? Geez, yah got me figured outxsmiley_wix ...

Or, could the real agenda be something as simple as scheduling the traditional home and home series with a team on the same division of play, for the first time ever mind you, and showing a peer institution the same type of respect as you would show a school from your own conference...

What's funny is while reading this thread, it has been somewhat suggested that Pearman isn't a real Hen now, because he only spent four years at the school and graduated, and is an alumnus ... but now that he's telling UD about itself, all of a sudden-- well he was pretty much too himself in college spending most of his time alone in the weight room, and he was only at Delaware for four years.-- So now he's a fake Hen...

I find U of D comical in their handling of this situation. Why should any institution be respected seriously when it handles a racially tense issue such as this, in the manner in which U of D is handling it??

EVEN PRINCETON HAS A RETURN GAME WITH HAMPTON!! An Ivy league team from Jersey can return a game at a MEAC School that is half the East coast away, but U of D can't return a trip to Delaware State, a school that's an hour away... This is a joke, right Hens? This has got to be a joke.

Even Maine has been to Howard... I think UMass has been to DSU... Furman to SCSU... it can go on and on, but it stops at U of D, first never scheduling DSU, then never wanting to play a game on DSU's campus.

Sadxnonono2x

Things like this have a way of balancing out themselves, one way or another.

Good luck versus New Hampshire, Santos and the rest, Hens... what's the record for the Hens versus Santos now?? Just curious??xsmiley_wix xthumbsupx

[brownbear]

Even maine has been to Howard... I think UMass has been to DSU... Furman to SCSU... it can go on and on, but it stops at U of D, first never scheduling DSU, then never wanting to play a game on DSU's campus.

Sadxnonono2x

In the last ten years, UMass, Southern Illinois, Bucknell, Liberty, and Elon have all traveled to Dover.

[Seahawks Fan]

xconfusedx

Good catch. Just when I thought I was free, this thread keeps dragging me back in. xbowx xbowx

[Punchykky]

xlolx xrotatehx Wait, you can already see that the final piece in my plan for world domination is to have the Hens play the Hornets at Alumni Stadium, thus forcing a shifting of the societal classes resulting in me leading a new age in world history??? Geez, yah got me figured outxsmiley_wix ...

Or, could the real agenda be something as simple as scheduling the traditional home and home series with a team on the same division of play, for the first time ever mind you, and showing a peer institution the same type of respect as you would show a school from your own conference...

What's funny is while reading this thread, it has been somewhat suggested that Pearman isn't a real Hen now, because he only spent four years at the school and graduated, and is an alumnus ... but now that he's telling UD about itself, all of a sudden-- well he was pretty much too himself in college spending most of his time alone in the weight room, and he was only at Delaware for four years.-- So now he's a fake Hen...

I find U of D comical in their handling of this situation. Why should any institution be respected seriously when it handles a racially tense issue such as this, in the manner in which U of D is handling it??

EVEN PRINCETON HAS A RETURN GAME WITH HAMPTON!! An Ivy league team from Jersey can return a game at a MEAC School that is half the East coast away, but U of D can't return a trip to Delaware State, a school that's an hour away... This is a joke, right Hens? This has got to be a joke.

Even Maine has been to Howard... I think UMass has been to DSU... Furman to SCSU... it can go on and on, but it stops at U of D, first never scheduling DSU, then never wanting to play a game on DSU's campus.

Sadxnonono2x

Things like this have a way of balancing out themselves, one way or another.

Good luck versus New Hampshire, Santos and the rest, Hens... what's the record for the Hens versus Santos now?? Just curious??xsmiley_wix xthumbsupx

You don't think DSU's stadium is too small?xconfusedx

[R.A.]

You don't think DSU's stadium is too small?xconfusedx

Temp Seating... like schools do for homecoming games or for classics... or like Howard does for every gamexlolx

For example... like A&T does for their homecoming crowd... it shoots their stadium capacity up from 21,000 to 34,000.

Put up some endzone seating at Alumni Stadium, bring the capacity up.

[lizrdgizrd]

xlolx xrotatehx Wait, you can already see that the final piece in my plan for world domination is to have the Hens play the Hornets at Alumni Stadium, thus forcing a shifting of the societal classes resulting in me leading a new age in world history??? Geez, yah got me figured outxsmiley_wix ...

Or, could the real agenda be something as simple as scheduling the traditional home and home series with a team on the same division of play, for the first time ever mind you, and showing a peer institution the same type of respect as you would show a school from your own conference...

What's funny is while reading this thread, it has been somewhat suggested that Pearman isn't a real Hen now, because he only spent four years at the school and graduated, and is an alumnus ... but now that he's telling UD about itself, all of a sudden-- well he was pretty much too himself in college spending most of his time alone in the weight room, and he was only at Delaware for four years.-- So now he's a fake Hen...

I find U of D comical in their handling of this situation. Why should any institution be respected seriously when it handles a racially tense issue such as this, in the manner in which U of D is handling it??

EVEN PRINCETON HAS A RETURN GAME WITH HAMPTON!! An Ivy league team from Jersey can return a game at a MEAC School that is half the East coast away, but U of D can't return a trip to Delaware State, a school that's an hour away... This is a joke, right Hens? This has got to be a joke.

Even Maine has been to Howard... I think UMass has been to DSU... Furman to SCSU... it can go on and on, but it stops at U of D, first never scheduling DSU, then never wanting to play a game on DSU's campus.

Sadxnonono2x

Things like this have a way of balancing out themselves, one way or another.

Good luck versus New Hampshire, Santos and the rest, Hens... what's the record for the Hens versus Santos now?? Just curious??xsmiley_wix xthumbsupx
Are you really this obtuse? DSU has insufficient facilities to make a return game financially feasible. xnonono2x

[BlueHen86]

Temp Seating... like schools do for homecoming games or for classics... or like Howard does for every gamexlolx

For example... like A&T does for their homecoming crowd... it shoots their stadium capacity up from 21,000 to 34,000.

Put up some endzone seating at Alumni Stadium, bring the capacity up.
Or just play the game 45 minutes away in Newark.

Sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

[Go...gate]

This is getting to be like the Bikini Thread or the Counting Thread!!!

[R.A.]

Are you really this obtuse? DSU has insufficient facilities to make a return game financially feasible. xnonono2x

That's not true, and it's just another excuse stacked upon a framework of others.

xnonono2x

Anyone who has been to Alumni Stadium knows that DSU has a bunch of endzone space for temp seats.

[R.A.]

Or just play the game 45 minutes away in Newark.

Sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

We're not against that... but give them the return trip they deserve.

[BlueHen86]

That's not true, and it's just another excuse stacked upon a framework of others.

xnonono2x

Anyone who has been to Alumni Stadium knows that DSU has a bunch of endzone space for temp seats.
They can't install enough seats to equal UD's capacity, also installing the seats won't be free, DSU will have to pay to have this done. DSU will also have to pay UD for the visit.
The smart finacial move FOR BOTH SCHOOLS is to play the game in Newark.

[Punchykky]

This is getting to be like the Bikini Thread or the Counting Thread!!!

Where's that bikini thread?!?!?xnodx xsmiley_wix

[Punchykky]

They can't install enough seats to equal UD's capacity, also installing the seats won't be free, DSU will have to pay to have this done. DSU will also have to pay UD for the visit.
The smart finacial move FOR BOTH SCHOOLS is to play the game in Newark.


OK; if they ever do schedule UD to visit DSU, do you think UD would have 22k people show up @ DSU? If this came up before, pleaz forgive me because I overlooked that thread.:D

[89Hen]

And the debate won't end until UD plays at DSU... it's only an hour away...
Then get used to it, because it aint gonna end.

[mcveyrl]

This is getting to be like the Bikini Thread or the Counting Thread!!!

Counselor...

I know the Bikini Thread. And this is no Bikini Thread.xsmhx xsmhx xbawlingx xbawlingx

[89Hen]

EVEN PRINCETON HAS A RETURN GAME WITH HAMPTON!! An Ivy league team from Jersey can return a game at a MEAC School that is half the East coast away, but U of D can't return a trip to Delaware State, a school that's an hour away... This is a joke, right Hens? This has got to be a joke.
The joke is you trying to argue this point. xnodx xcoffeex

[89Hen]

We're not against that... but give them the return trip they deserve.
Explain, in detail, why they 'deserve' a return trip.

[BlueHen86]

This is a similiar situation to Yale and UConn. For years they were the only two Div I schools in Connecticut.
They began playing each other in 1948 and stopped in 1998.
From 1948 through 1991 they played each other 41 times ALL AT YALE.
In 1992 they played at UConn FOR THE ONLY TIME
From 1993 through 1998 they played at Yale.

Thats 48 times played, 47 at Yale, 1 at UConn.
Why? Because the Yale Bowl had greater seating capacity than Memorial Field in Storrs.

[BlueHen86]

OK; if they ever do schedule UD to visit DSU, do you think UD would have 22k people show up @ DSU? If this came up before, pleaz forgive me because I overlooked that thread.:D
If the game is in Dover there will definitely be more UD people wanting tickets than tickets available.

UD sells out, and has about 10,000 season ticket holders.
DSU seats 6800.

Putting the game in Dover means that a lot of people who want tickets won't be able to get them. They would be able to get them if the game were in Newark.

[lizrdgizrd]

That's not true, and it's just another excuse stacked upon a framework of others.

xnonono2x

Anyone who has been to Alumni Stadium knows that DSU has a bunch of endzone space for temp seats.
When they get a stadium expansion then this might work out just fine. :o

[aust42]

F this whole subject. The game should be played. I don't understand how any Delaware fan can argue otherwise. A home/home series is only fair. F the finances, Delaware will still have 6 home games if DSU is a road trip and be in the black at the end of the year. If they were smart they'd find a neutral site somewhere in Philly (Franklin Field or Lincoln), market the game on TV, advertisements, etc. and draw 40k fans. I can't explain why my adm won't schedule the game, it's just ridiculous.

[BlueHen86]

F this whole subject. The game should be played. I don't understand how any Delaware fan can argue otherwise. A home/home series is only fair. F the finances, Delaware will still have 6 home games if DSU is a road trip and be in the black at the end of the year. If they were smart they'd find a neutral site somewhere in Philly (Franklin Field or Lincoln), market the game on TV, advertisements, etc. and draw 40k fans. I can't explain why my adm won't schedule the game, it's just ridiculous.

You should have stopped there.

[brownbear]

F this whole subject. The game should be played. I don't understand how any Delaware fan can argue otherwise. A home/home series is only fair. F the finances, Delaware will still have 6 home games if DSU is a road trip and be in the black at the end of the year. If they were smart they'd find a neutral site somewhere in Philly (Franklin Field or Lincoln), market the game on TV, advertisements, etc. and draw 40k fans. I can't explain why my adm won't schedule the game, it's just ridiculous.

The problem with playing in Philly is that by playing outside of Delaware, you are losing some of the concept of a state rivalry, which is the only reason to do it.

[aust42]

The problem with playing in Philly is that by playing outside of Delaware, you are losing some of the concept of a state rivalry, which is the only reason to do it.

Delaware is only 2 miles wide by 30 miles long. xlolx Having it in Philly wouldn't be a big deal. But if that is a big concern then just play a home/home series. Just play the dang game!

[brownbear]

Just play one game in Middletown, Delaware, which is about the halfway point between Newark and Dover. Here's a picture of Billings Stadium:

http://64.62.152.162/images/fields/06_Billings_large.jpg

[89Hen]

Billings Stadium
You're joking, right? xconfusedx xeyebrowx

[brownbear]

You're joking, right? xconfusedx xeyebrowx

The two teams could play in the middle of the night, no spectators, unannounced, and you read about it the next morning in the newspaper!! Solves everything!

[BlueHen86]

The two teams could play in the middle of the night, no spectators, unannounced, and you read about it the next morning in the newspaper!! Solves everything!
They already did that. Only it wasn't in the paper. I forget who won.

[brownbear]

They already did that. Only it wasn't in the paper. I forget who won.

You need one photo of the two teams playing so the issue. Or, you could sell tickets to a small stadium at a very high price for what would be the only time you'd see the two schools play each other. Both schools make the money they want.

[R.A.]

Explain, in detail, why they 'deserve' a return trip.

Nope, done talking. I'll let it play out now.

[Sam Adams]

ud has no problem playing monmouth and west chester, why not D State?

[RadMann]

Hmmm, Monmouth and West Chester are games that are played only at UD. DSU would want a home and home and their stadium holds about 4K. That's the quick answer.... Next question....

[89Hen]

Nope, done talking. I'll let it play out now.
That's what I thought. There is no reason so you'll just go home. xcoffeex

[aust42]

Hmmm, Monmouth and West Chester are games that are played only at UD. DSU would want a home and home and their stadium holds about 4K. That's the quick answer.... Next question....

Just another weak a$$ excuse. This isn't about making a profit at an away game. This is Division 1AA (FCS). There aren't big payouts for the majority of away games. We'll still be in the black at the end of the year with our 6 home games. We don't need to make money on this game. Look no further than our own conference. Rhode Island, Northeastern are dumps and are an embarrassment to our conference. Villanova & Maine are lucky if they get 4k at their games. What's the next excuse?

[RadMann]

...but they are conference games. If you are going to play an OOC, you want one that makes sense for the program. Simple math really...

[Go...gate]

That's what I thought. There is no reason so you'll just go home. xcoffeex


So UD vs. DSU at all is not a realistic option? I think UD has successfully made its argument for the Newark-only game, but blowing any UD-DSU game off completely seems unreasonable.

[89Hen]

We don't need to make money on this game. Look no further than our own conference. Rhode Island, Northeastern are dumps and are an embarrassment to our conference. Villanova & Maine are lucky if they get 4k at their games.
xnutsx xconfusedx

[89Hen]

So UD vs. DSU at all is not a realistic option? I think UD has successfully made its argument for the Newark-only game, but blowing any UD-DSU game off completely seems unreasonable.
Not what I was responding to. RA said DSU somehow 'deserved' a home game vs UD.

[DSUHornet]

they have been backing down from us for years from what i understand. i'm a redshirt freshman now for the hornets.

i dont see why they wont play us. it seems like it will be a very competitive game. look at the rankings! whoever wins will be rewarded handsomely. its not like either team is out of the other's league. i believe that race coming into the issue was inevitable because theres no real reason that the match up doesnt happen after all these years.
we played kent state earlier this season. why doesnt a team like delaware accept the invite?

[YoUDeeMan]

they have been backing down from us for years from what i understand. i'm a redshirt freshman now for the hornets.

i dont see why they wont play us. it seems like it will be a very competitive game. look at the rankings! whoever wins will be rewarded handsomely. its not like either team is out of the other's league. i believe that race coming into the issue was inevitable because theres no real reason that the match up doesnt happen after all these years.
we played kent state earlier this season. why doesnt a team like delaware accept the invite?

Read the thread. xcoffeex

[Sam Adams]

UD has no good reason for not playing DSU except that they'd rather play west chester and monmouth for rather obvious reasons.xcoffeex