More CAA Additions?

[atthewbon]

https://twitter.com/stevenjgaither/status/1515515822130794496?s=21&t=MuqSyZcdV90aszewGFhDIQ

Looks like Howard is going to the CAA

[Laker]

https://twitter.com/stevenjgaither/status/1515515822130794496?s=21&t=MuqSyZcdV90aszewGFhDIQ

Looks like Howard is going to the CAA

If this happens either the MEAC will have to take some D2 teams, lose teams to other conferences or have some teams drop to D2.

[DFW HOYA]

If this happens either the MEAC will have to take some D2 teams, lose teams to other conferences or have some teams drop to D2.

There are no D-II HBCU's in the progress of an upgrade.

[jajfitz]

If this happens either the MEAC will have to take some D2 teams, lose teams to other conferences or have some teams drop to D2.


Is a "merger" with the SWAC a possibility?

[WestCoastAggie]

Is a "merger" with the SWAC a possibility?
No.

[UNHWildcat18]

Great another program to Bloat CAA football even further. xsmhx

I feel if a few MEAC teams dropped the remaining would go NEC/Big South.

[aceinthehole]

Great another program to Bloat CAA football even further. xsmhx

I feel if a few MEAC teams dropped the remaining would go NEC/Big South.


I'm hoping that this is also some much needed good news for the Northeast Conference.

Delaware State and Morgan State to the NEC in 2023-24 as full members, which would give the NEC 10 football teams:

1. Central Connecticut
2. Delaware State
3. Long Island
4. Merrimack
5. Morgan State
6. Sacred Heart
7. Saint Francis
8. Stonehill
9. Wagner
+ Duquesne

Although Coppin State and Maryland-Eastern Shore would be in the NEC footprint; they would not be priority adds for the NEC. However, if the NEC lost Fairleigh Dickenson in addition to the upcoming announcement of Mt. St. Mary's to the MAAC, then I could see the NEC offering a home to all 4 "northern" MEAC schools:

NEC (12): CCSU, CSU*, DSU, LIU, UMES*, MC, MSU, SHU, SFPA, SFNY*, SC, WAG

That would make a 12-team league for basketball (3 schools do not play football)

[WestCoastAggie]

I'm hoping that this is also some much needed good news for the Northeast Conference.

Delaware State and Morgan State to the NEC in 2023-24 as full members, which would give the NEC 10 football teams:

1. Central Connecticut
2. Delaware State
3. Long Island
4. Merrimack
5. Morgan State
6. Sacred Heart
7. Saint Francis
8. Stonehill
9. Wagner
+ Duquesne

Although Coppin State and Maryland-Eastern Shore would be in the NEC footprint; they would not be priority adds for the NEC. However, if the NEC lost Fairleigh Dickenson in addition to the upcoming announcement of Mt. St. Mary's to the MAAC, then I could see the NEC offering a home to all 4 "northern" MEAC schools:

NEC (12): CCSU, CSU*, DSU, LIU, UMES*, MC, MSU, SHU, SFPA, SFNY*, SC, WAG

That would make a 12-team league for basketball (3 schools do not play football)

This is going to most likely happen but it’s going to be a slow roll.

[hengeek]

We're UNH and Maine ever invited in the past to the CAA as full members?

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[atthewbon]

I'm assuming with all these additions the CAA would do divisions. My guess is it would look something like this. It would be weird with 15 teams (I had the North with the extra team to keep the Delaware v. Villanova rivalry) Though some sort of pods system might work better, the North seems to be the stronger division.
North:
Rhode Island
Maine
Villanova
New Hampshire
Albany
Stony Brook
Monmouth
Delaware

South:
Howard
Hampton
NCA&T
William & Mary
Towson
Elon
Richmond

[UNAPride]

If this happens either the MEAC will have to take some D2 teams, lose teams to other conferences or have some teams drop to D2.

It's likely time for the southern-most MEAC schools to come up with a game plan. This is the fifth school to leave the conference in the past five years.

Would SC State, NC Central, and/or Norfolk State jump ship for another conference? Big South, ASUN, etc.?

[taper]

If Howard is true, then the CAA is up to 14 total with 9 FB. That's a great sized conference. CAA football is legally a separate single sport conference, and as much as the non-CAA members are denying it, I have to believe something has got to give. 15 members in a football only conference makes absolutely no sense in the FCS. I don't believe the CAA is deliberately trying to kill the MEAC, so can anybody think of a realistic reason to add all these members unless they intend to directly sponsor football? I don't see any mass exits happening that this is prepping for.

[WestCoastAggie]

It's likely time for the southern-most MEAC schools to come up with a game plan. This is the fifth school to leave the conference in the past five years.

Would SC State, NC Central, and/or Norfolk State jump ship for another conference? Big South, ASUN, etc.?

The only hope for the MEAC to stay intact would be for the Virginia State to leave the MEAC. Otherwise, expect to see Central, Norfolk, SC State, and perhaps even VA State in the Big South while Delaware State and Morgan State go NEC.

We have to see how the D1 Summer Meetings shake out this August to see if any more barriers are added to D2 move-ups.

The final nail will be the Celebration Bowl going to an At-Large Bid vs. the SCG Champion in 2024.

[ElCid]

If Howard is true, then the CAA is up to 14 total with 9 FB. That's a great sized conference. CAA football is legally a separate single sport conference, and as much as the non-CAA members are denying it, I have to believe something has got to give.

That's the million dollar speculation. Why have they done this? Something must be up and has to drop at some point. But what? Does someone, somewhere, know something? Or are they just piling up excessive insurance?

[WestCoastAggie]

That's the million dollar speculation. Why have they done this? Something must be up and has to drop at some point. But what? Does someone, somewhere, know something? Or are they just piling up excessive insurance?

Insurance from what I was told.

But for now, the divisional setup will help all members save on travel. Like in 2023, A&T will only have to travel North of DC once in Football and twice in Men’s and Women’s Basketball.

[ElCid]

Insurance from what I was told.

But for now, the divisional setup will help all members save on travel. Like in 2023, A&T will only have to travel North of DC once in Football and twice in Men’s and Women’s Basketball.

It may be as simple as that. Travel costs are going up. Enrollments are going down, in many cases, not all. Money is tight.

[UNAPride]

The only hope for the MEAC to stay intact would be for the Virginia State to leave the MEAC. Otherwise, expect to see Central, Norfolk, SC State, and perhaps even VA State in the Big South while Delaware State and Morgan State go NEC.

We have to see how the D1 Summer Meetings shake out this August to see if they any more barriers are added to D2 move-ups.

The final nail will be the Celebration Bowl going to an At-Large Bid vs. the SCG Champion in 2024.

It makes you wonder if the Big South/OVC football deal was a bit premature for the Big South. We shall see.

[WestCoastAggie]

It makes you wonder if the Big South/OVC football deal was a bit premature for the Big South. We shall see.
I don’t think it was. However, I’m sure the Big South and OVC commissioners are aware of the happenings in the MEAC and reached out to the remaining schools.

[UNHWildcat18]

We're UNH and Maine ever invited in the past to the CAA as full members?

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Probably not. I wouldn’t want to be IMHO. I love playing Richmond,W&M, UD in football but it just doesn’t make sense travel wise for all sports it’s one thing if NU UD SBU and Towson were in the AE but CofC Elon UNCW, UNH would never justify traveling that far for other sports

[centraljerseycat]

15 teams for CAA football is ridiculous. Maybe America East Football is happening!

[Tribe4SF]

15 teams for CAA football is ridiculous. Maybe America East Football is happening!

Not so ridiculous. Three section setup playing the other four in your section and two each from the others.

North- Maine, UNH, URI, Albany and Stony Brook.

Central- Monmouth, Villanova, Delaware, Towson and Howard.

South- Richmond, W&M, Hampton, Elon and NC A&T.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I actually think a 15-team CAA works fine. Despite the loss of JMU, the CAA is still solidly a multi-bid league going forward so it's not like you have 15 teams fighting for one playoff spot. Being the CAA auto-qualifier doesn't really mean that much. Oftentimes, the conference champ doesn't even end up with the highest seed from the conference.

America East Football is definitely much, much closer to being a possibility but only trivially until UNH and Maine decide that such a setup is in their best interests.

[centraljerseycat]

Not so ridiculous. Three section setup playing the other four in your section and two each from the others.

North- Maine, UNH, URI, Albany and Stony Brook.

Central- Monmouth, Villanova, Delaware, Towson and Howard.

South- Richmond, W&M, Hampton, Elon and NC A&T.

It's totally ridiculous. How can you have a real conference champion only playing 8 of the other 14 teams?

[UNHWildcat18]

I think not playing 6 members of your conference per season is garbage. I don’t care how you divy it up.. Can’t wait for a bunch of teams to finish with bubble records and for everyone to bitch at which ones do or don’t get in. I know that already happens lol but it's going to be even worse.

[caribbeanhen]

I think not playing 6 members of your conference per season is garbage. I don’t care how you divy it up.. Can’t wait for a bunch of teams to finish with bubble records and for everyone to bitch at which ones do or don’t get in. I know that already happens lol but it's going to be even worse.

This is where Marty will step in for you guys

[dgtw]

They should just dissolve the CAAFB conference and have CAA sponsor football for its full members. The AEC will have four football members after all the moves so they could sponsor it and take the others as affiliates.


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[UNHWildcat18]

This is where Marty will step in for you guys

Good ole Marty, he is retiring though. You will have to come up with another reason for our future years making the bubble xdrunkyx

[NY Crusader 2010]

It's totally ridiculous. How can you have a real conference champion only playing 8 of the other 14 teams?

I guess ask the SEC. But in general I'm with you and am not a fan of conferences larger than 12. In the 14-team (soon to be 16) SEC, Florida plays Alabama twice in a 12 year span.

The 15-team CAA would certainly dilute some rivalries but overall would work OK. And the way those divisions are constructed now, would be pretty even as far as competition. Of course that could change year over year. But again, since the CAA is a multi-bid league in FCS, it's not the end of the world if the best team doesn't win the AQ because of strength of schedule disparities.

You might also see a system of primary partners. For example, William & Mary-Delaware is a game I would expect to remain annual. As well as Hampton-Howard.

[NY Crusader 2010]

They should just dissolve the CAAFB conference and have CAA sponsor football for its full members. The AEC will have four football members after all the moves so they could sponsor it and take the others as affiliates.


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Arguably of the current football members, the 3 strongest programs the last 15 years are Villanova, UNH and Richmond. The CAA isn't going to show the affiliates the door anytime soon.

[Sitting Bull]

16 is just too many. If the CAA brings on two additional weak adds, I would almost rather see W&M and Delaware bolt for the Patriot all sports and take Villanova and Richmond as football affiliates. It’s getting to the point now where this looks more attractive.

[Anthony215]

IMO adding Howard is for contingency of Delaware following JMU to FBS. No other CAA school has the resources/following to make the move other than Delaware with their 20k seat stadium and being the main university of the state. Nova, Maine, UNH, Elon, URI, W&M all lack those things. Delaware & JMU have been at the forefront of the CAA for years in FB so I could possibly see a scenario lets have a back up in place. Also having 3 HBCU's in the conference helps with optics as well. Howard definitely needs to upgrade both BB & FB facilities but seating won't be an issue at Greene Stadium which holds 10k and still tops both NY schools, Rhody & Maine for seating capacity. Them hosting A&T or Hampton for HC every year will be epic and wonderful.

[caribbeanhen]

Good ole Marty, he is retiring though. You will have to come up with another reason for our future years making the bubble xdrunkyx


The least ole Marty could do was get the CAA to auto bids

[caribbeanhen]

IMO adding Howard is for contingency of Delaware following JMU to FBS. No other CAA school has the resources/following to make the move other than Delaware with their 20k seat stadium and being the main university of the state. Nova, Maine, UNH, Elon, URI, W&M all lack those things. Delaware & JMU have been at the forefront of the CAA for years in FB so I could possibly see a scenario lets have a back up in place. Also having 3 HBCU's in the conference helps with optics as well. Howard definitely needs to upgrade both BB & FB facilities but seating won't be an issue at Greene Stadium which holds 10k and still tops both NY schools, Rhody & Maine for seating capacity. Them hosting A&T or Hampton for HC every year will be epic and wonderful.

All of this makes a lot of sense except nobody at the University of Delaware is thinking like you, If they are it’s all hush-hush

[centraljerseycat]

16 is just too many. If the CAA brings on two additional weak adds, I would almost rather see W&M and Delaware bolt for the Patriot all sports and take Villanova and Richmond as football affiliates. It’s getting to the point now where this looks more attractive.

Love the Patriot League schools. Hate the Patriot League rules. If the PL dropped the AI and redshirting rules, I'm all in with this

[UNHWildcat18]

16 is just too many. If the CAA brings on two additional weak adds, I would almost rather see W&M and Delaware bolt for the Patriot all sports and take Villanova and Richmond as football affiliates. It’s getting to the point now where this looks more attractive.

This is your bed (conference) now sleep in it.

[UNHWildcat18]

Love the Patriot League schools. Hate the Patriot League rules. If the PL dropped the AI and redshirting rules, I'm all in with this

PL isn't going to go for that. The league overall has great academic schools but sucks for sports.

I truly think Delaware wants to be in the A-10 with URI and umASS. They will not be invited to an FBS league, no wants them IMO.

[UNHWildcat18]

The least ole Marty could do was get the CAA to auto bids

I know, guy is so selfish, he should have gotten that new bylaw passed into the FCS playoffs he was working on. I think it read

Page 124 paragraph 4B. " Any UNH.......I mean Delaware team with a record of 7-4 or better gets an auto bid to the playoffs"

[Sitting Bull]

Love the Patriot League schools. Hate the Patriot League rules. If the PL dropped the AI and redshirting rules, I'm all in with this

I think they have altered those rules? If not, perhaps the four can help negotiate a change. I don’t think the majority already in would object.

[Dane96]

IMO adding Howard is for contingency of Delaware following JMU to FBS. No other CAA school has the resources/following to make the move other than Delaware with their 20k seat stadium and being the main university of the state. Nova, Maine, UNH, Elon, URI, W&M all lack those things. Delaware & JMU have been at the forefront of the CAA for years in FB so I could possibly see a scenario lets have a back up in place. Also having 3 HBCU's in the conference helps with optics as well. Howard definitely needs to upgrade both BB & FB facilities but seating won't be an issue at Greene Stadium which holds 10k and still tops both NY schools, Rhody & Maine for seating capacity. Them hosting A&T or Hampton for HC every year will be epic and wonderful.

Does NOT top both NY schools. Greene stadium (been multiple times) sits 7,000 and the 10,000 for football includes the standing areas and adding bleachers. Stony Brook's Lavalle seats 12,300, up to 15,000 with SRO. Albany's Casey Stadium seats 8,500 but fire code allows 12,000+, which allows SRO and more fannies in the berm.

That said, Howard is an excellent academic add but will need to upgrade it's sports tremendously.

[Dane96]

Also, Alfond seats 10,000...without SRO and added bleachers.

[Dane96]

I think they have altered those rules? If not, perhaps the four can help negotiate a change. I don’t think the majority already in would object.

Precisely. Zero, absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind that if W&M and Delaware approached the PL and said, hey...we want in as full members and we can bring along 'Nova and Richmond for football, the PL schools would take a hot minute to make the changes required and still keep the academic integrity of the league.

[WestCoastAggie]

Precisely. Zero, absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind that if W&M and Delaware approached the PL and said, hey...we want in as full members and we can bring along 'Nova and Richmond for football, the PL schools would take a hot minute to make the changes required and still keep the academic integrity of the league.
The question is why hasn’t this happened? And weren’t Richmond and W&M members previously? Also, what is the benefit of joining the PL now?

How are admins really feeling about the Potentially 3 HBCU additions? Did these 4 programs vote for the invites?

[Tribe4SF]

I think they have altered those rules? If not, perhaps the four can help negotiate a change. I don’t think the majority already in would object.

They have not. Lafayette is not going to want to alter the redshirt rule. They have no graduate degrees.

[Tribe4SF]

16 is just too many. If the CAA brings on two additional weak adds, I would almost rather see W&M and Delaware bolt for the Patriot all sports and take Villanova and Richmond as football affiliates. It’s getting to the point now where this looks more attractive.

W&M as the Southern outlier in the PL would be expensive. Flights to Boston U., Holy Cross, Colgate and USMA as well as brutal bus trips to Fordham, Lafayette, Lehigh and Bucknell. You want to fund the additional travel costs?

[DFW HOYA]

They have not. Lafayette is not going to want to alter the redshirt rule. They have no graduate degrees.

Graduate studies does not preclude a redshirt year. Reserving the last 12 hours of courses for the fall of their fifth year allows the players the opportunity to complete the undergraduate degree one semester later, and without the need to commit to a summer term along the way.

[kdinva]

Graduate studies does not preclude a redshirt year. Reserving the last 12 hours of courses for the fall of their fifth year allows the players the opportunity to complete the undergraduate degree one semester later, and without the need to commit to a summer term along the way.

this,....and with the option of taking 3 hours during the summer and work on conditioning, etc., away from class, and on campus.

- - - Updated - - -

[NY Crusader 2010]

PL isn't going to go for that. The league overall has great academic schools but sucks for sports.

I truly think Delaware wants to be in the A-10 with URI and umASS. They will not be invited to an FBS league, no wants them IMO.

There's a better chance of you winning the lotto and getting zapped by lightning on the same day than Delaware getting into the Atlantic 10. More like Atlantic 18 now...

And you're absolutely right, the way FBS is currently constructed, I don't see them getting invited anytime in the next 10 years. Best G5 fit would be the MAC which seems pretty staunch on not wanting to expand. Case in point: they didn't even give Middle Tennessee or Western Kentucky so much as a sniff when CUSA membership was collapsing. And both MTSU and WKU would've a) made the MAC a much better basketball conference and b) given the league a southern footprint to enhance football recruiting.

[NY Crusader 2010]

W&M as the Southern outlier in the PL would be expensive. Flights to Boston U., Holy Cross, Colgate and USMA as well as brutal bus trips to Fordham, Lafayette, Lehigh and Bucknell. You want to fund the additional travel costs?

Williamsburg to Colgate would be the roughest trip. Flight into Syracuse with a connection in Newark or LGA most likely, and then I think it's a 2 hour bus trip to Hamilton from there. Of course, the schools are currently in the midst of a 4-game football series so it's been done. You also left out American, Navy and Loyola, all of whom would be convenient road trips for W&M.

CAA's not exactly a tight travel league either. W&M has flights to Hofstra, Stony Brook and Northeastern in most sports. Charleston isn't a short bus ride by any means. Plus the couple of football road trips a year to the northern affiliate schools. With the new CAA additions, the Tribe would certainly benefit travel-wise as NC A&T, Hampton and Howard are all easy trips.

[Sitting Bull]

W&M as the Southern outlier in the PL would be expensive. Flights to Boston U., Holy Cross, Colgate and USMA as well as brutal bus trips to Fordham, Lafayette, Lehigh and Bucknell. You want to fund the additional travel costs?

The issue -IF the CAA goes to 16 as some suggest and move into North/South Divisions - here is where W&M lands in the projected “south” Division - this group then compiling our primary athletic partners:
W&M, Howard, Hampton, Elon, NC A&T, UNCW, Charleston - then an 8th which could be NC Central, Campbell or Norfolk State.

There’s not a member there we have anything more than 10 years of relationship, some none at all. There are no rivals there. No peers. How can this juice the W&M fan base or athletic opportunity?

I think the CAA did a great job adding SBU, Monmouth and Hampton. That was 12. It solved all potential issues. I wasn’t thrilled going to 14 and think 16 is a joke.

If this 16 vision becomes reality, W&M needs to look elsewhere. And the PL - for all sports - includes Navy, American, Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette and Army among others. If you threw in Delaware and Richmond/Nova for football, it would be a good home for Tribe sports and any travel concerns would be irrelevant.

[Tribe4SF]

The issue -IF the CAA goes to 16 as some suggest and move into North/South Divisions - here is where W&M lands in the projected “south” Division - this group then compiling our primary athletic partners:
W&M, Howard, Hampton, Elon, NC A&T, UNCW, Charleston - then an 8th which could be NC Central, Campbell or Norfolk State.

There’s not a member there we have anything more than 10 years of relationship, some none at all. There are no rivals there. No peers. How can this juice the W&M fan base or athletic opportunity?

I think the CAA did a great job adding SBU, Monmouth and Hampton. That was 12. It solved all potential issues. I wasn’t thrilled going to 14 and think 16 is a joke.

If this 16 vision becomes reality, W&M needs to look elsewhere. And the PL - for all sports - includes Navy, American, Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette and Army among others. If you threw in Delaware and Richmond/Nova for football, it would be a good home for Tribe sports and any travel concerns would be irrelevant.

Travel concerns will not be irrelevant. They will remain a primary consideration for the foreseeable future.

Thoughts of W&M, Delaware, Richmond and Villanova all moving together to the Patriot are far fetched at best even if the Patriot Presidents suddenly abandoned their Ivy envy and adopted rules acceptable to these schools. They'd have to abandon the AI, allow redshirting and move to 63 scholarships. There's zero evidence that may happen.

[Dane96]

Williamsburg to Colgate would be the roughest trip. Flight into Syracuse with a connection in Newark or LGA most likely, and then I think it's a 2 hour bus trip to Hamilton from there. Of course, the schools are currently in the midst of a 4-game football series so it's been done. You also left out American, Navy and Loyola, all of whom would be convenient road trips for W&M.

CAA's not exactly a tight travel league either. W&M has flights to Hofstra, Stony Brook and Northeastern in most sports. Charleston isn't a short bus ride by any means. Plus the couple of football road trips a year to the northern affiliate schools. With the new CAA additions, the Tribe would certainly benefit travel-wise as NC A&T, Hampton and Howard are all easy trips.

Syracuse airport to Colgate's campus is less than 50 miles, so about 30-40 min. All flights into Syracuse from Williamsburg would be from the shared airport, Newport News, or Richmond...all requiring a layover. It's literally not that big a deal for this to happen...and I think you point that out.

I have been saying this since this latest carousel started: If the PL wanted to, and got off its butts to make what would be minor changes that would still protect it's "brand" (academic integrity), then it could be the biggest winner of this whole process. Even if it didn't land Delaware, instead landing Northeastern and W&M, it would be a league of like minded institutions that would have the ability tor really up the athletic side of the equation to something more like a WCC for basketball. Football would be just fine as well.

[Tribe4SF]

Graduate studies does not preclude a redshirt year. Reserving the last 12 hours of courses for the fall of their fifth year allows the players the opportunity to complete the undergraduate degree one semester later, and without the need to commit to a summer term along the way.

They may not preclude it but if you think high academic kids won't prefer a graduate degree over that you're kidding yourself. It's a huge advantage when you're recruiting kids like we do. One of our captains this year will be a third year law school student. More typically our star cornerback will enter our MBA program in the Fall with two years to play. I haven't counted how many on our Fall roster will be in grad school but it's a significant number.

Edit: Just did a quick count and saw 11 who will be in grad school.

[DFW HOYA]

They may not preclude it but if you think high academic kids won't prefer a graduate degree over that you're kidding yourself. It's a huge advantage when you're recruiting kids like we do. One of our captains this year will be a third year law school student.

It varies by school, and hasn't been an advantage for Georgetown because it can't get enough kids admitted in the first place.

[Sitting Bull]

Travel concerns will not be irrelevant. They will remain a primary consideration for the foreseeable future.

Thoughts of W&M, Delaware, Richmond and Villanova all moving together to the Patriot are far fetched at best even if the Patriot Presidents suddenly abandoned their Ivy envy and adopted rules acceptable to these schools. They'd have to abandon the AI, allow redshirting and move to 63 scholarships. There's zero evidence that may happen.

I disagree on travel concerns. There are a core of 6 PL schools - 7 if we threw in Delaware - that are within a 5 hour drive. Right now in the CAA, we have 6 with Monmouth. NYC and Charleston are basically a wash in distance.

I also wonder if it may also help our ability to maintain other sports such as swimming, gymnastics, etc that have been threatened.

If you can look at the south grouping of 8, our new 7 core rivals, within the projected CAA 16 and believe this is our bright future, the best we can do on athletic partnerships, then we just have different visions on Tribe athletics.

And let’s say we join the PL on our own, no Delaware. I wouldn’t be surprised if Richmond and Villanova joined in for football only. They may do it anyway which would make our potential new world in the CAA even less appealing.

[Tribe4SF]

Syracuse airport to Colgate's campus is less than 50 miles, so about 30-40 min. All flights into Syracuse from Williamsburg would be from the shared airport, Newport News, or Richmond...all requiring a layover. It's literally not that big a deal for this to happen...and I think you point that out.

I have been saying this since this latest carousel started: If the PL wanted to, and got off its butts to make what would be minor changes that would still protect it's "brand" (academic integrity), then it could be the biggest winner of this whole process. Even if it didn't land Delaware, instead landing Northeastern and W&M, it would be a league of like minded institutions that would have the ability tor really up the athletic side of the equation to something more like a WCC for basketball. Football would be just fine as well.

W&M isn't going to the Patriot with only Northeastern under any circumstances.

[Tribe4SF]

I disagree on travel concerns. There are a core of 6 PL schools - 7 if we threw in Delaware - that are within a 5 hour drive. Right now in the CAA, we have 6 with Monmouth. NYC and Charleston are basically a wash in distance.

I also wonder if it may also help our ability to maintain other sports such as swimming, gymnastics, etc that have been threatened.

If you can look at the south grouping of 8, our new 7 core rivals, within the projected CAA 16 and believe this is our bright future, the best we can do on athletic partnerships, then we just have different visions on Tribe athletics.

And let’s say we join the PL on our own, no Delaware. I wouldn’t be surprised if Richmond and Villanova joined in for football only. They may do it anyway which would make our potential new world in the CAA even less appealing.

Sticking with travel concerns there will be 9 CAA schools within 5 hours. UNCW, NC A&T, Elon, Hampton, Howard, Towson, Delaware, Drexel and Monmouth. Add Richmond and Villanova with football. What are the six Patriot teams you see within 5 hours? If you're including Bucknell, Lehigh and Lafayette you haven't been on a team bus lately.

[Dane96]

W&M isn't going to the Patriot with only Northeastern under any circumstances.

And you can guarantee that how? Not saying you aren't right or wrong...just saying that "under any circumstances" is quite the hyperbolic statement.

[Sitting Bull]

Sticking with travel concerns there will be 9 CAA schools within 5 hours. UNCW, NC A&T, Elon, Hampton, Howard, Towson, Delaware, Drexel and Monmouth. Add Richmond and Villanova with football. What are the six Patriot teams you see within 5 hours? If you're including Bucknell, Lehigh and Lafayette you haven't been on a team bus lately.

American, Navy, Loyola MD, Georgetown (football) Lehigh, Lafayette and Bucknell. Add Richmond and Villanova on football as I would bet if we moved, chances good they might as well. The rest aren’t exactly going to the moon - Fordham, Army, Colgate. Holy Cross and BU would be similar to Northeastern.

There’s just not enough difference in my view to swing a decision, especially when you look at this in terms of your athletic partners.

Here’s a look at our potential “Divisional” differences, all sports:
CAA: Howard, Hampton, Elon, NC A&T, UNCW, Charleston, then likely NC Central or Campbell.

Patriot: American, Navy, LoyolaMD, Lehigh, Lafayette,Bucknell, Army.

Which looks like a better fit for W&M all sports to you?

I should add that this scenario does not include my best case PL where Delaware, Richmond and Villanova all moved with us. That would then be a no brainer in my view.

[Tribe4SF]

And you can guarantee that how? Not saying you aren't right or wrong...just saying that "under any circumstances" is quite the hyperbolic statement.

Assuming the PL changed their rules to suit us we are not going to be an extreme Southern outlier in their conference with zero natural or historic rivals and a huge increase in travel costs. We'd be flying for all sports to BU, Northeastern, Holy Cross, USMA and Colgate as well as looking at 6 hour bus rides to Bucknell, Lehigh and Lafayette. It ain't happening... ever.

[Tribe4SF]

American, Navy, Loyola MD, Georgetown (football) Lehigh, Lafayette and Bucknell. Add Richmond and Villanova on football as I would bet if we moved, chances good they might as well. The rest aren’t exactly going to the moon - Fordham, Army, Colgate. Holy Cross and BU would be similar to Northeastern.

There’s just not enough difference in my view to swing a decision, especially when you look at this in terms of your athletic partners.

Here’s a look at our potential “Divisional” differences, all sports:
CAA: Howard, Hampton, Elon, NC A&T, UNCW, Charleston, then likely NC Central or Campbell.

Patriot: American, Navy, LoyolaMD, Lehigh, Lafayette,Bucknell, Army.

Which looks like a better fit for W&M all sports to you?

I should add that this scenario does not include my best case PL where Delaware, Richmond and Villanova all moved with us. That would then be a no brainer in my view.

You're still delusional thinking a team bus is going to get to Bucknell, Lehigh or Lafayette in 5 hours and Army is way up there. So of their all-sport members you have 3 within 5 hours. No one has mentioned NCCU or Campbell as potential members outside of message board dreamers. I get the feeling that there's a bit of academic snobism involved here. I have no problem with the academic profiles of our new members or our potential "Southern" CAA partners so you won't bring me on board with that stuff. Times change. We used to be rivals with VMI, Furman, ODU, VCU, GMU, Davidson and The Citadel. New rivalries develop and can be just as meaningful.

Edit: "The rest aren’t exactly going to the moon - Fordham, Army, Colgate. Holy Cross and BU would be similar to Northeastern." Yeah, that's five instead of one. Add the plane fare up.

[Sitting Bull]

You're still delusional thinking a team bus is going to get to Bucknell, Lehigh or Lafayette in 5 hours and Army is way up there. So of their all-sport members you have 3 within 5 hours. No one has mentioned NCCU or Campbell as potential members outside of message board dreamers. I get the feeling that there's a bit of academic snobism involved here. I have no problem with the academic profiles of our new members or our potential "Southern" CAA partners so you won't bring me on board with that stuff. Times change. We used to be rivals with VMI, Furman, ODU, VCU, GMU, Davidson and The Citadel. New rivalries develop and can be just as meaningful.

Edit: "The rest aren’t exactly going to the moon - Fordham, Army, Colgate. Holy Cross and BU would be similar to Northeastern." Yeah, that's five instead of one. Add the plane fare up.

It’s just my opinion, I’m not trying to bring you on board with anything. And I really don’t like academic snobbism either. There’s enough of that on the Tribe board sometimes. That’s typically when the insults and condescending comments start getting thrown around.

Just being a Tribe fan for over 40 years and getting excited about a new southern line-up of schools we have zero history with and are actually in most cases ranked below us athletically, it’s depressing to me to think this is where we are heading. But I understand time changes. I just don’t think it’s in the best interest of my school. As a fan, I have no interest in these schools.

[Professor]

It’s just my opinion, I’m not trying to bring you on board with anything. And I really don’t like academic snobbism either. There’s enough of that on the Tribe board sometimes. That’s typically when the insults and condescending comments start getting thrown around.

Just being a Tribe fan for over 40 years and getting excited about a new southern line-up of schools we have zero history with and are actually in most cases ranked below us athletically, it’s depressing to me to think this is where we are heading. But I understand time changes. I just don’t think it’s in the best interest of my school. As a fan, I have no interest in these schools.

So what exactly would make you excited? Where do you wanna see W&M

[UNHWildcat18]

CAAFB ****ed up not being an entirely separate league without automatic entry clause. I think NCA&T FAMU and Jackson St should have made a massive move and gone FBS to the CUSA. Was the ripe time to bring HBCUs to the FBS.

[Sitting Bull]

So what exactly would make you excited? Where do you wanna see W&M

I was pleased when we went to 12 adding SBU, Monmouth and Hampton. One league, no divisions though easier travel. It plugged the major issues in the CAA.

Going up 14 and likely to 16 as speculated with divisions, it’s a different animal with the created southern cluster. It’s just unnecessarily large and creates bigger risks. There’s no upgrade in this expanded core cluster, athletically or stature. Might be wrong though I think every member of this new southern Division was a D2 or NAIA school when I attended. I know times have changed but that’s been the progression of our program that I’ve watched.

Tribe4sf, who is a terrific rep for us, listed some of our older rivals. Everyone of them has moved up into leagues offering better athletics and higher profile members during my years, at worst they have remained stable (VMI, Citadel). We continue to spiral down on both counts.

And I think 16 just invites collapse, a split with our bigger rivals (football and other) on the northern side. That’s a huge risk to W&M in my view.

So the possibility I first mentioned, VU, UR and Delaware in a beefed up Patriot would be ideal as I see things are developing. We were a founding member in 1982 and pulled back partly for maintaining rivalries with these 3 (plus JMU). Now that playoffs are allowed and the OOC schedule isn’t committed to the Ivys, we have taken most of the obstacles off the board. It might be too remote to happen - but that’s what I would like to see for W&M at this point. Basically a league with Delaware, Navy, Army, Richmond and Villanova, understanding two are football affiliates. The others - Bucknell, Lehigh, Colgate, BU - aren’t exactly strangers either.

[Sader87]

I don't think it will happen due to travel and other concerns....W&M and Richmond should really rejoin the Southern Conference imo....my $.02 from a Northern Yankee xdrunkyx

[FUBeAR]

I don't think it will happen due to travel and other concerns....W&M and Richmond should really rejoin the Southern Conference imo....my $.02 from a Northern Yankee xdrunkyx
Sold. We’ll take ‘em!

[Sader87]

All kidding aside, they are a much bettah geographic and institutional fit in the Southern Conference than either the CAA or PL.

[Sitting Bull]

All kidding aside, they are a much bettah geographic and institutional fit in the Southern Conference than either the CAA or PL.

That’s correct except you aren’t considering the move over with Richmond, Delaware and Villanova as a group. It’s a longer shot though that’s the direction I was suggesting.

[Sader87]

Villanova should be in the PL for football and probably will be sooner rather than later....like W&M and the Spiders in the Southern, Nova is a much bettah fit geograpically and institutionally in the PL.

[NY Crusader 2010]

CAAFB ****ed up not being an entirely separate league without automatic entry clause. I think NCA&T FAMU and Jackson St should have made a massive move and gone FBS to the CUSA. Was the ripe time to bring HBCUs to the FBS.

Florida A&M already tried going FBS and it took the program two decades to recover from the attempted move (in addition to some ugly NCAA penalties a number of years later). They started a transition process to I-A in 2002 or 2003 and I believe were actually planning on joining the OLD C-USA, back when it had Memphis, Houston, Southern Miss, Louisville, East Carolina, South Florida, etc.

[Laker]

Florida A&M already tried going FBS and it took the program two decades to recover from the attempted move (in addition to some ugly NCAA penalties a number of years later). They started a transition process to I-A in 2002 or 2003 and I believe were actually planning on joining the OLD C-USA, back when it had Memphis, Houston, Southern Miss, Louisville, East Carolina, South Florida, etc.

Savannah State and Winston-Salem tried going D1 and are now back in D2. People talk like it is an easy move but it isn't.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In all seriousness, does the idea of Howard in the CAA make literally anyone happy?

[Tribe4SF]

In all seriousness, does the idea of Howard in the CAA make literally anyone happy?

Yes. Me to a limited degree and W&M, Hampton, NC A&T, Towson, Drexel, Delaware, Richmond, and Villanova.

[dgtw]

W&M isn't going to the Patriot with only Northeastern under any circumstances.

I would enjoy the irony of a conference called the Patriot League having a member named for a king and queen of England.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UNHWildcat18]

In all seriousness, does the idea of Howard in the CAA make literally anyone happy?

Maybe for CAA-Sports, but I don't think anyone is excited for them to be the 15TH! member of the football conference. They don't add anything

[DFW HOYA]

I would enjoy the irony of a conference called the Patriot League having a member named for a king and queen of England.


The Georgetown neighborhood of Washington DC (where the university was named after) was named after George II.

[Laker]

The Georgetown neighborhood of Washington DC (where the university was named after) was named after George II.

Wasn't he the last British king to actually lead his troops in battle?

[ElCid]

Wasn't he the last British king to actually lead his troops in battle?

Yup. Battle of Dettingen, 1743. But I'm pretty sure, while he was present on the battlefield, he didn't actually lead his troops. Probably, kind of a ceremonial presence.

[centraljerseycat]

In all seriousness, does the idea of Howard in the CAA make literally anyone happy?

No not at all happy. You lose a perennial top 5 FCS school in JMU and replace them with 4 underfunded mediocre programs. Hence my interest in a Villanova exit to a new FCS conference in the next few years.

[WestCoastAggie]

No not at all happy. You lose a perennial top 5 FCS school in JMU and replace them with 4 underfunded mediocre programs. Hence my interest in a Villanova exit to a new FCS conference in the next few years.

So you don't think A&T can and will boost their funding to the CAA average? We got a commitment from Chancellor Martin and A&T's BOT that $25 Million is the base line. And the CAA also invited two HBCUs with the highest endowments in the entire sector and Howard has a goal of a $1 Billion dollar endowment and is engaging on a $750 million capital campaign that's also going to help with Athletics.

Lastly, Hampton is in the middle of a major athletic facility upgrade including Armstrong Stadium.

Trust when I say we wouldn't have been invited if we didn't have a commitment to get our acts together athletically.

As a SN, the 3 of us have been taking arrows on both sides (HBCU Athletics Community & you all) regarding this move. Sheesh. It's exhausting.

[caribbeanhen]

So you don't think A&T can and will boost their funding to the CAA average? We got a commitment from Chancellor Martin and A&T's BOT that $25 Million is the base line. And the CAA also invited two HBCUs with the highest endowments in the entire sector and Howard has a goal of a $1 Billion dollar endowment and is engaging on a $750 million capital campaign that's also going to help with Athletics.

Lastly, Hampton is in the middle of a major athletic facility upgrade including Armstrong Stadium.

Trust when I say we wouldn't have been invited if we didn't have a commitment to get our acts together athletically.

As a SN, the 3 of us have been taking arrows on both sides (HBCU Athletics Community & you all) regarding this move. Sheesh. It's exhausting.

From a pure football standpoint, A&T and Monmouth I’m fine with, but Howard, Hampton and Norfolk State just not doing anything for me. How the mighty CAA has fallen.

[WestCoastAggie]

From a pure football standpoint, A&T and Monmouth I’m fine with, but Howard, Hampton and Norfolk State just not doing anything for me. How the mighty CAA has fallen.

Of course from a football standpoint, it's a, "huh?" However, holistically, Hampton and Howard are a bit of a coup, especially on the academic side of things. Now, if Howard finally gets their stuff together, starts properly investing into football (including playing games at Audi Field), and start winning, they'll be a crown jewel for the conference.

However, critics can always ask why in the world didn't these admins invest into their school's athletic programs while in the MEAC?

[Sitting Bull]

So you don't think A&T can and will boost their funding to the CAA average? We got a commitment from Chancellor Martin and A&T's BOT that $25 Million is the base line. And the CAA also invited two HBCUs with the highest endowments in the entire sector and Howard has a goal of a $1 Billion dollar endowment and is engaging on a $750 million capital campaign that's also going to help with Athletics.

Lastly, Hampton is in the middle of a major athletic facility upgrade including Armstrong Stadium.

Trust when I say we wouldn't have been invited if we didn't have a commitment to get our acts together athletically.

As a SN, the 3 of us have been taking arrows on both sides (HBCU Athletics Community & you all) regarding this move. Sheesh. It's exhausting.

I think NC A&T was the best add the CAA made. They should have locked the Aggies, SBU, Monmouth and stopped

[unknown-swac]

I had to go check records to see what some of these schools that hate the adds so much have added to the CAA for the last 10 years. Ironically, it's always the schools that haven't done much of anything either to criticize.

[Anthony215]

So you don't think A&T can and will boost their funding to the CAA average? We got a commitment from Chancellor Martin and A&T's BOT that $25 Million is the base line. And the CAA also invited two HBCUs with the highest endowments in the entire sector and Howard has a goal of a $1 Billion dollar endowment and is engaging on a $750 million capital campaign that's also going to help with Athletics.

Lastly, Hampton is in the middle of a major athletic facility upgrade including Armstrong Stadium.

Trust when I say we wouldn't have been invited if we didn't have a commitment to get our acts together athletically.

As a SN, the 3 of us have been taking arrows on both sides (HBCU Athletics Community & you all) regarding this move. Sheesh. It's exhausting.

A&T has a history of playing successful football. Throw out last season and they ran through the MEAC and in the process knocked off some FBS programs in non conference play. I have no doubt A&T will be able to raise their funding to be not only competitive i conference play but nationally. I'm interested in the upgrades to Armstrong Stadium, are there any online renderings/details?

[MR. CHICKEN]

32442


.....WHIFF ALL DUH ADDITIONS TA CAA........WHERE WILL WE FIND OOC'S TA PLAY.....xdontknowx....AWQ!

.....WE'LL NEED TA SKED......GRIZZWOLDS/BIZONSSSS.......TA GET OURAH STRENGTH O' SKED......NORFF UH ACCEPTABLE.........BRAWK!

[FUBeAR]

32442


.....WHIFF ALL DUH ADDITIONS TA CAA........WHERE WILL WE FIND OOC'S TA PLAY.....xdontknowx....AWQ!

.....WE'LL NEED TA SKED......GRIZZWOLDS/BIZONSSSS.......TA GET OURAH STRENGTH O' SKED......NORFF UH ACCEPTIBLE.........BRAWK!
Don’t matter…The CAA haves will roll up 8-9 wins against the CAA havenots, then can play D2’s, Transitionals, and NAIA OOC to get 9-10 wins and get 3 seeds and 5 Teams in the Playoffs. Just follow the Big Sky model.

[WestCoastAggie]

A&T has a history of playing successful football. Throw out last season and they ran through the MEAC and in the process knocked off some FBS programs in non conference play. I have no doubt A&T will be able to raise their funding to be not only competitive i conference play but nationally. I'm interested in the upgrades to Armstrong Stadium, are there any online renderings/details?

Eh... All I got is this: http://docs.hamptonu.edu/hunews/HU-2021-Campus-Enhancement-Booklet_highRES.pdf

And when Hampton oddly enough kicked out butts this past fall, sadly, I could clearly see the south end zone renovation was well underway along with their soccer/lacrosse fields getting a facelift.

[caribbeanhen]

I had to go check records to see what some of these schools that hate the adds so much have added to the CAA for the last 10 years. Ironically, it's always the schools that haven't done much of anything either to criticize.

What schools did you check?

[caribbeanhen]

Eh... All I got is this: http://docs.hamptonu.edu/hunews/HU-2021-Campus-Enhancement-Booklet_highRES.pdf

And when Hampton oddly enough kicked out butts this past fall, sadly, I could clearly see the south end zone renovation was well underway along with their soccer/lacrosse fields getting a facelift.

Hampton had about 200 in attendance last fall for a game, but it was blustery

[Tribe4SF]

No not at all happy. You lose a perennial top 5 FCS school in JMU and replace them with 4 underfunded mediocre programs. Hence my interest in a Villanova exit to a new FCS conference in the next few years.

And who will you invite to this new FCS conference?

[UNHWildcat18]

No not at all happy. You lose a perennial top 5 FCS school in JMU and replace them with 4 underfunded mediocre programs. Hence my interest in a Villanova exit to a new FCS conference in the next few years.

I agree but I think out of all NC A&T was a good replacement for JMU. I don’t have a lot of faith in the rest. Again not concerned about the CAA conference but the FB conference didn’t need more than one school to replace JMU, hell I think we would have been stronger with 11.

[Panther88]

In all seriousness, does the idea of Howard in the CAA make literally anyone happy?

Doesn't make me happy. Perhaps The H should have thought to transition to D-II, since it appears to be satisfied with the status quo since forever.

Lack of (athletic financial) resources, incompetetent and inept (athl) leadership, subpar athletic facilities, et al "issues" relating campus life does not qualify Howard for this type move, unless the CAA wants another instant whipping boy and adoption of another institution's problems.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I had to go check records to see what some of these schools that hate the adds so much have added to the CAA for the last 10 years. Ironically, it's always the schools that haven't done much of anything either to criticize.

....HALF DUH COMPLAINERS...FROM DUH PATRIOT......SPRINKLED WHIFF SOGONES......AN' ASSORTED OTHERAH CONFERENCE BELLYACHERS.......IS WHAA IT IS........PLAY BALL!............BRAWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

No not at all happy. You lose a perennial top 5 FCS school in JMU and replace them with 4 underfunded mediocre programs. Hence my interest in a Villanova exit to a new FCS conference in the next few years.

.....GRAB DUH EZ DUBBYA'S......'NOVA'S....DUH FLAGSHIP.......YA SMACK DUH PATRIOT/NEC....IN 1st ROUND........YER ON YER WAY TA FARGO........AWK!

.....LET DUH MVFC/BIG FLUFFY...PULL EACH OTHERAHS HAIR..........YOU'LL BE FRESH AS UH CUCUMBER FACIAL.........AT DUH DANCE.......BRAWK!

[unknown-swac]

What schools did you check?

Yours was one of em. I see basically no championships since 2003. I mean, you want props for a conference championship? If so I can give ya that. Basketball, gross. Baseball, gross. From what I see,
2012 - 5-6
2013 - 7-5
2014 - 6-6
2015 - 4-7
2016 - 4-7
2017 - 7-4
2018 - 7-5
2019 - 5-7
2020 - 7-1
2021 - 5-6

That about right? But JMU is gone now so should be a bit easier for ya.

[centraljerseycat]

Yours was one of em. I see basically no championships since 2003. I mean, you want props for a conference championship? If so I can give ya that. Basketball, gross. Baseball, gross. From what I see,
2012 - 5-6
2013 - 7-5
2014 - 6-6
2015 - 4-7
2016 - 4-7
2017 - 7-4
2018 - 7-5
2019 - 5-7
2020 - 7-1
2021 - 5-6

That about right? But JMU is gone now so should be a bit easier for ya.

And best of all the Hens are 1-9 against Nova in the time frame you reference above...

[Sader87]

I actually love the fact that PL schedules allow for 5 OOC games...allows for good Ivy games, CAA games, FBS games etc...I hope we never add another PL team to the league schedule.

[centraljerseycat]

And who will you invite to this new FCS conference?

Well barring the Patriot League changing it's rules, I'd start with the 4 schools from America East-UNH, Maine, Albany & Bryant and add URI for 5 northern schools and then Nova, Delaware, Richmond, W&M and Fordham for a southern region to get to 10. Play the 4 from your region plus 4 of the 5 from the other region. One division of 10 teams though. Everyone has a rival for the last week of the season-Nova-Del, Richmond-W&M, UNH-Maine, URI-Bryant & Albany -Fordham.

[Tribe4SF]

Well barring the Patriot League changing it's rules, I'd start with the 4 schools from America East-UNH, Maine, Albany & Bryant and add URI for 5 northern schools and then Nova, Delaware, Richmond, W&M and Fordham for a southern region to get to 10. Play the 4 from your region plus 4 of the 5 from the other region. One division of 10 teams though. Everyone has a rival for the last week of the season-Nova-Del, Richmond-W&M, UNH-Maine, URI-Bryant & Albany -Fordham.

In a perfect world I'd love to see it! But with our imperfect world the Tribe would have six flights with those schools so it will never happen.

[UNHWildcat18]

Well barring the Patriot League changing it's rules, I'd start with the 4 schools from America East-UNH, Maine, Albany & Bryant and add URI for 5 northern schools and then Nova, Delaware, Richmond, W&M and Fordham for a southern region to get to 10. Play the 4 from your region plus 4 of the 5 from the other region. One division of 10 teams though. Everyone has a rival for the last week of the season-Nova-Del, Richmond-W&M, UNH-Maine, URI-Bryant & Albany -Fordham.


IF CAA kicked out affiliates A core 6 of UNH Maine Albany URI Bryant Villanova would be the best we could hope for. I feel like Richmond would join that for football over asking for affiliation with the socon. That would be a solid 7. I wouldn't be surprised if Fordham would be solidly looking to leave the PL for that if they ever wanted to get rid of those stupid PL rules. That 8 person conference would be solid for a long time and allow Nova and Richmond to schedule their UD/W&M game every year.

Unlikely, but I think that's what the AE schools would try for if the sad day ever came. If only umASS came back to FCS, then it would be one good 9 team league IMO.

And as long as I'm being honest here how many more teams will it take for the levy to break? They going to add another HBCU team to make football 16? what about a big south team? like lets be real here how the F are teams expected to stay happy with a 16 person league.

[NY Crusader 2010]

UNH -- totally agree that a 16 team league at this level is overkill and a half. There was no reason for the CAA to expand beyond 12 for all sports. 12 for all sports and a 13 or 14 team football conference with the affiliates, OK. But it's getting ridiculous now. How in the heck is Howard supposed to be competitive in the CAA? Other than the couple of years Mike London was there, they've been a bottom feeder in the MEAC.

[Dane96]

Rumor mill strong that Albany is in serious discussions with the CAA, reviving discussions from last fall. Clearly the CAA will go to 16 at some point, the question is why?

[Sitting Bull]

I actually love the fact that PL schedules allow for 5 OOC games...allows for good Ivy games, CAA games, FBS games etc...I hope we never add another PL team to the league schedule.

You never liked the FCS playoffs either until Holy Cross started participating.

[Sitting Bull]

Rumor mill strong that Albany is in serious discussions with the CAA, reviving discussions from last fall. Clearly the CAA will go to 16 at some point, the question is why?

I can only imagine it has something related with leveraging better media support plans or preparation for some expected changes with the Divisional structures in the NCAA. Possibly both.

16 does seem to be the trend in the FBS conferences. The SEC is going to 16. The ACC is at 15. The Big 10 at 14. The Sun Belt has 14. The A10 is at 14. Those not at 16 appear to flirt with adding to reach that number.

Someone else mentioned insurance from departing members. If youÂ’re running the CAA, you would have to look at who are the conferences you are most vulnerable of getting plucked. In the CAA, it has been largely the A10, a conference built on basketball. The CAA has been smart in this expansion by adding members with football. That takes the A10 off the table as a major threat. Among the few basketball only schools left in the CAA, none look to be on the A10 radar. Charleston would be most likely however if they were concerned about travel expenses in the CAA, the A10 surely makes no sense. On the football side, only Delaware would be a flight risk though there is no FBS option that really makes any sense.

As far as UAlbany, that would be an easy add, much like SBU.

[WestCoastAggie]

I can only imagine it has something related with leveraging better media support plans or preparation for some expected changes with the Divisional structures in the NCAA. Possibly both.

16 does seem to be the trend in the FBS conferences. The SEC is going to 16. The ACC is at 15. The Big 10 at 14. The Sun Belt has 14. The A10 is at 14. Those not at 16 appear to flirt with adding to reach that number.

Someone else mentioned insurance from departing members. If youÂ’re running the CAA, you would have to look at who are the conferences you are most vulnerable of getting plucked. In the CAA, it has been largely the A10, a conference built on basketball. The CAA has been smart in this expansion by adding members with football. That takes the A10 off the table as a major threat. Among the few basketball only schools left in the CAA, none look to be on the A10 radar. Charleston would be most likely however if they were concerned about travel expenses in the CAA, the A10 surely makes no sense. On the football side, only Delaware would be a flight risk though there is no FBS option that really makes any sense.

As far as UAlbany, that would be an easy add, much like SBU.

The most immediate benefit out there is minimizing travel costs. Heck, you have a 14-game schedule in each division alone before you start crossing over in basketball and olympic sports. You have a 7-game schedule in Football just within your division. For A&T, that means we're playing in DC, NC, and VA (the MEAC footprint pre-1980/D1) for 7 conference games. We won't even have to travel north of DC in football no more than once every other year in a 8-game conference schedule format.

For Maine and New Hampshire, they don't travel south of Delaware anymore but once every other year in Football. If you don't realize the significance in minimizing times a school will have to charter flights is huge, I don't know what to tell you.

And pulling in Albany, Stony Brook, and Monmouth help stops the America East or Patriot from pulling away members. Meanwhile, adding A&T, Hampton, and Howard help stops the SoCon from taking back College of Charleston and Elon, and adding UNCW.

[Bill]

I can only imagine it has something related with leveraging better media support plans or preparation for some expected changes with the Divisional structures in the NCAA. Possibly both.

16 does seem to be the trend in the FBS conferences. The SEC is going to 16. The ACC is at 15. The Big 10 at 14. The Sun Belt has 14. The A10 is at 14. Those not at 16 appear to flirt with adding to reach that number.

.

Yes - but I think it's important to note FBS conferences are also very concerned with having enough teams to also run a conference championship game...big $$ implications there. Now unless the CAA is looking to host the Dr. Pepper Tubby Raymond bowl....xlolx

[UNHWildcat18]

The most immediate benefit out there is minimizing travel costs. Heck, you have a 14-game schedule in each division alone before you start crossing over in basketball and olympic sports. You have a 7-game schedule in Football just within your division. For A&T, that means we're playing in DC, NC, and VA (the MEAC footprint pre-1980/D1) for 7 conference games. We won't even have to travel north of DC in football no more than once every other year in a 8-game conference schedule format.

For Maine and New Hampshire, they don't travel south of Delaware anymore but once every other year in Football. If you don't realize the significance in minimizing times a school will have to charter flights is huge, I don't know what to tell you.

And pulling in Albany, Stony Brook, and Monmouth help stops the America East or Patriot from pulling away members. Meanwhile, adding A&T, Hampton, and Howard help stops the SoCon from taking back College of Charleston and Elon, and adding UNCW.

One thing people are overlooking, is that albany isn't southern NY by any means. they are 1hr 45min drive from umASS Amherst and slightly further north. I get NU hofstra and SBU even monmouth, but everyone else outside of Towson drexel and UD is a far distance for them..

[DFW HOYA]

The problem when you get above 12 is that, absent a lot of money (read=SEC), it is not sustainable. No one wants to finish 15th or 16th. A lot of conferences have been overinflated through the years (the pre-1953 Southern Conference, the small college MAC, WAC, Big East, various versions of Conference USA) and they've broken up.

[caribbeanhen]

Yes - but I think it's important to note FBS conferences are also very concerned with having enough teams to also run a conference championship game...big $$ implications there. Now unless the CAA is looking to host the Dr. Pepper Tubby Raymond bowl....xlolx

haha good one I like it

lets call it the “I got Tubby off grotto pizza bowl”

[Sitting Bull]

Yes - but I think it's important to note FBS conferences are also very concerned with having enough teams to also run a conference championship game...big $$ implications there. Now unless the CAA is looking to host the Dr. Pepper Tubby Raymond bowl....xlolx

That’s one element of it, unrelated here obviously. I’m thinking this could involve upcoming shifts though within the NCAA, football classification or future basketball classifications.

The A10 is now at 15. The Sun Belt at 14. The MAC at 12 though speculating additions. A quick check of current basketball standings shows most leagues are 12 or above.

The CAA is planning for something bigger happening I think than just travel expenses. On the plus side, the expansions are not spreading the geo boundaries and are solidifying the full all-sports (including football) structure.

[MR. CHICKEN]

The problem when you get above 12 is that, absent a lot of money (read=SEC), it is not sustainable. No one wants to finish 15th or 16th. A lot of conferences have been overinflated through the years (the pre-1953 Southern Conference, the small college MAC, WAC, Big East, various versions of Conference USA) and they've broken up.


....NO ONE WANTS TA BE...9/10....11/12.......THINK UMA$$/UCONN......WANTS TA BE ON FBS's......LAST PAGE UH.....STREET & SMIFF............BRAWK!

.....GET ON YER BEAT WRITERS.........C'MON TRESSOLINI..........WHAT'S UP WHIFF CAA....AWK?

[Sitting Bull]

One thing people are overlooking, is that albany isn't southern NY by any means. they are 1hr 45min drive from umASS Amherst and slightly further north. I get NU hofstra and SBU even monmouth, but everyone else outside of Towson drexel and UD is a far distance for them..

Albany is a 5 hour bus ride to Baltimore. That’s puts 7 teams in bus distance.

[WestCoastAggie]

One thing people are overlooking, is that albany isn't southern NY by any means. they are 1hr 45min drive from umASS Amherst and slightly further north. I get NU hofstra and SBU even monmouth, but everyone else outside of Towson drexel and UD is a far distance for them..

For Albany, accepting membership in the CAA means they will mostly hang out within the similar AE footprint they're in.

Here's what a CAA North would look like with Albany:

Albany
Delaware
Drexel - Basketball Only
Hofstra - Basketball Only
Monmouth
Northeastern - Basketball Only
Stony Brook
Towson
(Maine) - Football Only
(New Hampshire) - Football Only
(Rhode Island) - Football Only

They won't have to travel below Baltimore no more than 1 time in Football and Men's Basketball/Women's Basketball & Olympic Sports. Or, 2 times if Basketball goes to a 18-game schedule. To add to that, Towson is a 5 hour drive from Albany. It may be a hotel stay depending on when the game is played and weather. However, Albany won't have many hotel stays in-conference for their olympic sports.

[ElCid]

Albany is a 5 hour bus ride to Baltimore. That’s puts 7 teams in bus distance.

5 Hours? I don't think so. Traffic, construction, accidents, etc. More like 6-7. Unless its night travel.

[caribbeanhen]

5 Hours? I don't think so. Traffic, construction, accidents, etc. More like 6-7. Unless its night travel.

Night travel with a 3:15 AM stop at the Waffle House

[NY Crusader 2010]

Yes - but I think it's important to note FBS conferences are also very concerned with having enough teams to also run a conference championship game...big $$ implications there. Now unless the CAA is looking to host the Dr. Pepper Tubby Raymond bowl....xlolx

You no longer need 12+ teams to have a conference championship game in FBS. This is why the Big 12 has been able to have one with just 10 teams. The reason for the expansion up to 16 teams is the following:

P5: Media markets, media markets and media markets. It's all about expanding the reach of the TV networks.

G5: The over-expansion beyond 12 is generally to hedge against getting raided by the bigger conferences in the future. Say you're the AAC and you stand pat at 10, all of a sudden an exodus of 4 teams could bring you to 6. When you're at 14, 4 teams leave and you're still at 10. Same logic applies to Sun Belt hedging against a future raid by the AAC.

At the FCS level, over-expansion is really not needed.

[WestCoastAggie]

That’s one element of it, unrelated here obviously. I’m thinking this could involve upcoming shifts though within the NCAA, football classification or future basketball classifications.

The A10 is now at 15. The Sun Belt at 14. The MAC at 12 though speculating additions. A quick check of current basketball standings shows most leagues are 12 or above.

The CAA is planning for something bigger happening I think than just travel expenses. On the plus side, the expansions are not spreading the geo boundaries and are solidifying the full all-sports (including football) structure.

Two things I keep hearing thrown around are a spending floor & increase in conference membership min for an Automatic Qualifier from 6 to 8 or 10. In addition, the requirements to transition to a Division 1 school will change and possibly get harder.

[Dane96]

One thing people are overlooking, is that albany isn't southern NY by any means. they are 1hr 45min drive from umASS Amherst and slightly further north. I get NU hofstra and SBU even monmouth, but everyone else outside of Towson drexel and UD is a far distance for them..

Not so sure I understand (though I do agree with your geography). In all-sports, Albany is trading the following:

1. LOWELL-Northeastern
2. Stony Brook-Stony Brook
3. NJIT-Monmouth
4. UMBC-Towson
5- Maine-Delaware
6- Vermont-Hofstra
7- Bryant-Drexel

I left out Binghamton just for time matchups....no other reason and because there is not a 8th CAA North school in the AE to match up. Binghamton can slip into any of those just mentioned. So that's 14 conference games...and then you are adding probably 4 more (so two other teams) that you will charter to for an 18 game schedule. So there are costs there that outweigh the bus costs, and that's times two for women's hoops.

Now for the CAA North teams, you are just adding a trip but reducing a southern trip. So Albany becomes the "Maine" of the CAA North for Delaware and Towson...but the reality is, you can just schedule a northern swing of Northeastern and Albany.

I just don't think geography is that big a deal with an 8 team northern group...that's the whole point to this...reduce travel between the South and the North of the CAA.

[Dane96]

Albany is a 5 hour bus ride to Baltimore. That’s puts 7 teams in bus distance.


For Albany, accepting membership in the CAA means they will mostly hang out within the similar AE footprint they're in.

Here's what a CAA North would look like with Albany:

Albany
Delaware
Drexel - Basketball Only
Hofstra - Basketball Only
Monmouth
Northeastern - Basketball Only
Stony Brook
Towson
(Maine) - Football Only
(New Hampshire) - Football Only
(Rhode Island) - Football Only

They won't have to travel below Baltimore no more than 1 time in Football and Men's Basketball/Women's Basketball & Olympic Sports. Or, 2 times if Basketball goes to a 18-game schedule. To add to that, Towson is a 5 hour drive from Albany. It may be a hotel stay depending on when the game is played and weather. However, Albany won't have many hotel stays in-conference for their olympic sports.

Exactly, to both tweets. Didn't see these while I was typing my reply on what it would look like for Albany and the rest of the CAA.

[Sitting Bull]

5 Hours? I don't think so. Traffic, construction, accidents, etc. More like 6-7. Unless its night travel.

Yes, 5 hours, at least to Towson. Just check Google maps. You don’t have to cut through NYC to do it (84/81/83).

Where travel gets dicey is when you have to get out to Long Island. There’s no easy way to route around NYC.

[UNHWildcat18]

Not so sure I understand (though I do agree with your geography). In all-sports, Albany is trading the following:

1. LOWELL-Northeastern
2. Stony Brook-Stony Brook
3. NJIT-Monmouth
4. UMBC-Towson
5- Maine-Delaware
6- Vermont-Hofstra
7- Bryant-Drexel

I left out Binghamton just for time matchups....no other reason and because there is not a 8th CAA North school in the AE to match up. Binghamton can slip into any of those just mentioned. So that's 14 conference games...and then you are adding probably 4 more (so two other teams) that you will charter to for an 18 game schedule. So there are costs there that outweigh the bus costs, and that's times two for women's hoops.

Now for the CAA North teams, you are just adding a trip but reducing a southern trip. So Albany becomes the "Maine" of the CAA North for Delaware and Towson...but the reality is, you can just schedule a northern swing of Northeastern and Albany.

I just don't think geography is that big a deal with an 8 team northern group...that's the whole point to this...reduce travel between the South and the North of the CAA.

That's fair and all but what is the point of being in a league that has EIGHT other teams outside of the 7 in your scenario that you would play? You basically play none of the southern teams, or if you play a lot you have a big travel distance for all sports. What's the point in this one bid league world with either scenario?

One bid League
Horrible TV deal for another year, I'd laugh if flo stuck around.
Travel expenses when playing the far southern members increase
Less interaction between league members due to size
Less $ distributed.

I see it, but I just don't at the same time. The east coast really needs a clean wipe and realignment of teams.

[ElCid]

Yes, 5 hours, at least to Towson. Just check Google maps. You don’t have to cut through NYC to do it (84/81/83).

Where travel gets dicey is when you have to get out to Long Island. There’s no easy way to route around NYC.

Goggle map? Been on I95 lately? It's been a couple years for me, but those time estimates for anything going through Jersey are a joke. Going on the NY Thruway to 95 is about the best route, but it's dicey depending on traffic that you could ever make it in 5 hours, in a bus especially. But you are right, it isn't horribly far. Just congested.

Yeah you could go the PA route out to 81, but you still got Scranton, the perpetual construction zone to deal with.

[WestCoastAggie]

That's fair and all but what is the point of being in a league that has EIGHT other teams outside of the 7 in your scenario that you would play? You basically play none of the southern teams, or if you play a lot you have a big travel distance for all sports. What's the point in this one bid league world with either scenario?

One bid League
Horrible TV deal for another year, I'd laugh if flo stuck around.
Travel expenses when playing the far southern members increase
Less interaction between league members due to size
Less $ distributed.

I see it, but I just don't at the same time. The east coast really needs a clean wipe and realignment of teams.

True. However, regarding Flo, they're being "invested" in by Discovery Networks. It wouldn't surprise me to see Flo folded into a bigger media corporation soon. Also, Byron Allen's AMG is apparently working on a 9-figure deal with the SWAC. If the SWAC is pulling that, "yesterday's price is not today's price" regarding the CAA's primary and secondary linear or streaming/digital media rights.

That deal is potentially something the CAA should be watching especially now since they have three pretty large HBCU brands in their fold in addition to the fact many members are within large media markets.

[Sitting Bull]

Goggle map? Been on I95 lately? It's been a couple years for me, but those time estimates for anything going through Jersey are a joke. Going on the NY Thruway to 95 is about the best route, but it's dicey depending on traffic that you could ever make it in 5 hours, in a bus especially. But you are right, it isn't horribly far. Just congested.

Yeah you could go the PA route out to 81, but you still got Scranton, the perpetual construction zone to deal with.

I drive from the the Hudson Valley of NY to Richmond Va once a month. So yeah, I’m kind of familiar. I can get to the Delaware Bridge in 3 hours from my house, straight down the NJ turnpike. And I’m usually the person in the far right lane with my blinker on. Not a fast driver.

If it’s much over 5 hours, Albany to Towson, you’re really splitting hairs. Particularly when the trips are post game, late evening.

[Anthony215]

Eh... All I got is this: http://docs.hamptonu.edu/hunews/HU-2021-Campus-Enhancement-Booklet_highRES.pdf

And when Hampton oddly enough kicked out butts this past fall, sadly, I could clearly see the south end zone renovation was well underway along with their soccer/lacrosse fields getting a facelift.

I've been clamoring and pestering both Hampton & Howard athletic departments to start using twitter more like other HBCU FCS/D2 programs. Jackson State, Southern, Bethune, Cookman, TSU, PVSU, SC State, Morehouse & A&T as it is a driving force in recruiting and swaying kids to say hmmmmm they're promoting their programs and I can get viral attention I'll go there and star.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Probably the best excuse for Howard in the CAA is being called "insurance in case Delaware leaves.". But if Delaware leaves, there is zero reason for any of the Northern schools to ever play the full CAA members. I promise you UNH isn't going to stick around just so they can still fly to W&M for conference games every six years, and they're also not going to stick around to play Stony Brook every year.

[Dane96]

I wouldn't be surprised if any rumored additions will be for 2023-24, meaning it is likely the CAA is closed for business this season.

[Sader87]

You never liked the FCS playoffs either until Holy Cross started participating.

Really not that big of a fan today of FCS playoffs actually....will nevah happen in today's world, but a last game of the year against BC tops the FCS playoffs every, single time.

[DFW HOYA]

Really not that big of a fan today of FCS playoffs actually....will nevah happen in today's world, but a last game of the year against BC tops the FCS playoffs every, single time.

If they add just approximately 22 more scholarships, HC is back in the little big time alongside UConn and UMass, and maybe that's where BC ends up after the ACC is raided.

Meanwhile, Colgate ended its 2021 season drawing 1,312 to Hamilton against Fordham and Georgetown was left scheduling Morgan State before 576 in Baltimore.

https://colgateathletics.com/sports/football/stats/2021/fordham/boxscore/8570

https://guhoyas.com/sports/football/stats/2021/morgan-state/boxscore/17111

[UNHWildcat18]

If they add just approximately 22 more scholarships, HC is back in the little big time alongside UConn and UMass, and maybe that's where BC ends up after the ACC is raided.

Meanwhile, Colgate ended its 2021 season drawing 1,312 to Hamilton against Fordham and Georgetown was left scheduling Morgan State before 576 in Baltimore.

https://colgateathletics.com/sports/football/stats/2021/fordham/boxscore/8570

https://guhoyas.com/sports/football/stats/2021/morgan-state/boxscore/17111

BC won't not be in a power 5 conference, regardless of record. IMHO