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SDFS
April 12th, 2022, 04:46 PM
Fall 2021 Boise had 3068 graduate students and 20,145 degree seeking undergrads though they had 25,829 total undergrads paying tutiont (I'm assuming certificate/continuing ed programs)

Idaho, in fall 2021, reported 11,303 students with 1,947 of those being grad students.

As I said, Boise is literally double the size of Idaho. From the start that is why Boise was the horse they all picked to ride with.

You're (royal) are over valuing the B12 importance on Academics. This isn't the B10 or P12 where that clearly is a vital part of it. The B12 has the lowest "school rankings" of any major conference, especially on the public side. The publics in the B12 average in the 180s in the US News rankings - talk about politics being why things happen why they do, these rankings are near the top of that list. Would boise be the lowest ranked? Sure. Let's not pretend like Boise is a JUCO trying to join the Ivy's here. Iowa State, Texas Tech, Okie State, WVU, and Kansas State, Cinci, Houston, and UCF would all REALLY struggle to pass the "academic muster" test of the B10 or P12. And to be honest if it wasn't for Kansas's basketball program there would be cases made that their overall university academic profile isn't great in terms of fitting with the B10. However, as you realized, warts are able to be overlooked when money and athletic profile can be added and made.

Other than being higher ranked by US News there is literally nothing that Idaho could offer any conference that Boise can't do, and do so at double to quadruple the level.

As far as, Idaho versus BSU. I think Idaho is a peer school with MSU, NDSU and SDSU (along with USD/UND). They belong with that group. If that is the "New G5" or FCS tbd I think that is the right place. I think BSU is academically bottom tier FBS with Liberty and athletically middle of the road P5. It is far from a perfect choice for P5. It's up to the Big XII if they are willing to look the other way on academics. I listen to Sic'm 365 (Baylor - radio) and they have had a number of consultants on the program talking about the expansion phase II for the Big XII. The last program they had talking about this topic had evaluated 20 G5 schools (including Phase I schools to help baseline). They had the following:

Qualified: BYU (selected), Rice, Cin (selected), Temple, AF, SMU, Navy, USF, Army, Tulane, UH (selected) and UCF (selected).
Near Par: Buffalo, SDSU, CSU, Tulsa, Miami
Not on Par: Memphis, UNLV, Wyoming, ECU, BSU, UNM, N. Ill, Liberty.

If you go to the Sic'M site: The discussion was with Altimore Collins LLC. - they put together a 240 page deck called - "Finding a Perfect Fit for the Big XII" - Data-driven expansion target analysis with strategic perspectives and insights for long-term conference success - 30 Sep 2021. Not sure I agree with all the comments but it was interesting discussion.

As far as enrollment numbers we have been passing back and forth.. I think both sets are correct: One is FT plus PT and other is simply FT. It shows that BSU is a commuter school, which most people would agree on. Sorry about the drift on UI/BSU - Big XII.

clenz
April 12th, 2022, 08:07 PM
I’m using official enrollment numbers from the school


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Yote 53
April 14th, 2022, 12:59 PM
Fall 2021 Boise had 3068 graduate students and 20,145 degree seeking undergrads though they had 25,829 total undergrads paying tutiont (I'm assuming certificate/continuing ed programs)

Idaho, in fall 2021, reported 11,303 students with 1,947 of those being grad students.

As I said, Boise is literally double the size of Idaho. From the start that is why Boise was the horse they all picked to ride with.

You're (royal) are over valuing the B12 importance on Academics. This isn't the B10 or P12 where that clearly is a vital part of it. The B12 has the lowest "school rankings" of any major conference, especially on the public side. The publics in the B12 average in the 180s in the US News rankings - talk about politics being why things happen why they do, these rankings are near the top of that list. Would boise be the lowest ranked? Sure. Let's not pretend like Boise is a JUCO trying to join the Ivy's here. Iowa State, Texas Tech, Okie State, WVU, and Kansas State, Cinci, Houston, and UCF would all REALLY struggle to pass the "academic muster" test of the B10 or P12. And to be honest if it wasn't for Kansas's basketball program there would be cases made that their overall university academic profile isn't great in terms of fitting with the B10. However, as you realized, warts are able to be overlooked when money and athletic profile can be added and made.

Other than being higher ranked by US News there is literally nothing that Idaho could offer any conference that Boise can't do, and do so at double to quadruple the level.

ISU and Kansas are both AAU schools and would get into the Big Ten without issue based on academics. Iowa State has the issue of a market that is already covered by the Big Ten and I think Kansas would have been invited already if they had a football program with a pulse.

Baron Sardonicus
April 14th, 2022, 02:08 PM
Kansas would have been invited already if they had a football program with a pulse.

Kansas was never seriously interested once it was apparent that the Big 12 would survive. KU will never walk away from the Jayhawk circus that is the conference tournament in Kansas City. The city worships them.

Professor Chaos
April 14th, 2022, 02:13 PM
Kansas was never seriously interested once it was apparent that the Big 12 would survive. KU will never walk away from the Jayhawk circus that is the conference tournament in Kansas City. The city worships them.
Well, yeah... they are the Kansas City Jayhawks right???
https://121-jgweb.newscyclecloud.com/storyimage/JG/20160819/ARTICLE/308199974/EP/1/3/EP-308199974.jpg&MaxH=400

Yote 53
April 14th, 2022, 02:51 PM
True. And Big 12 basketball is pretty high up there. The Big 12 reminds a bit of the Big East, stellar basketball but questions about whether it can be considered a Power football conference. In the end the Big 12 will be considered a step below the P5 and we'll have a P4. Oh, I know what the talking heads (ahem, ESPN) are saying now. But once the Sooners and Longhorns move and are backfilled by a group of G5 move-ups the talking heads will change their talking points. They are just avoiding the subject now so these changes can slide through nice and easy.

To the point, Kansas doesn't care about that. Big 12 basketball is really good and KU can win national titles there...while fielding something resembling a football team that they don't have to dump much money into.

clenz
April 14th, 2022, 08:20 PM
To the point, Kansas doesn't care about that. Big 12 basketball is really good and KU can win national titles there...while fielding something resembling a football team that they don't have to dump much money into.
You just described NDSU but flip the sports


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taper
April 14th, 2022, 10:28 PM
You just described NDSU but flip the sports


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You know what's really funny? NDSU has more MBB postseason appearances and the same number of wins as UNI in the last 10 years. You seem very insecure about this.

atthewbon
April 14th, 2022, 11:26 PM
Kansas was never seriously interested once it was apparent that the Big 12 would survive. KU will never walk away from the Jayhawk circus that is the conference tournament in Kansas City. The city worships them.

Kansas definitely would have joined the Big Ten if offered. Conference realignment is all about $$$ (especially at the top levels). They would be getting between 2 to 3 times the money from the big ten (once they get the new tv deal) as opposed to big 12. Problem is the Big Ten didn’t want them because they don’t add enough value to the conference. As big as Kansas basketball is it still doesn’t add more value then they would take from their cut of the tv deal.

The Big Ten does care a lot about AAU which Kansas does have so they probably would have been good on the academic side. The research sharing program the Big Ten schools have is crazy big ($$$) and is why the conference cares so much about AAU. Though I do think they’d make an exception for Notre Dame. Ultimately conference realignment (especially at the top levels) has much less to do with on field success than a lot of people think and more to do with “if we add this school will our school make more money.” The problem with the rest of the Big 12 schools trying to join the Big Ten the answer is no.

Exact same problem with SDSU and NDSU joining a FBS conference. How much do these schools move the needle for a tv contract? (Not a lot) Is the hassle of the travel for all other sports worth it? The best chance was the CUSA as they needed schools to stay afloat. Maybe the MWC takes NDSU as a football affiliate but otherwise I just don’t see a clear path. I’m not against SDSU and NDSU moving up I just don’t see it happening in this landscape. Maybe the new NCAA restructure changes the landscape, everything kinda seems in flux with that, the portal, and NIL right now.