Did Citadel and Western Kentucky run up the score this week too much?

[woffordgrad94]

Here are two scores that caught my attention scrolling at the bottom of the ESPN screen: The Citadel 76, Weber International 0 and Western Kentucky 87, West Virginia Tech 0. What is the deal with these two schools? What division are they in? If they are this bad, maybe they shouldn't even have football teams. In any event, was it really necessary for El Cid and WKU to score as much as they did, or were the teams they were playing just so bad that they couldn't help it? By the way, I happen to notice that the Citadel is at Wisconsin next week. Boy, what a stepup! THEY might be on the other side of a lopsided score! Not saying they will for sure, but it definitely could happen.

[Mountaineer#96]

very simple...... YES. They both could have taken a few notes on class from Jerry Moore this weekend.

[Millwoch]

I was at the Citadel game. They did not play one player on the first team in the second half and played third and 4th team QBs the fourth quarter. Webber Int. really gave up in the second half. It was sad. But The Citadel did not intentionally run the score up. They did not throw one pass in the 4th quarter and the offense only scored 2 TDs in the second half. Unfortunately for Webber Int., they kept turning the ball over with 1 int. and one fumble for TDs. I guess they could have taken a knee for an entire quarter. They could have scored 90 or 100 if they wanted. It was that bad of a mismatch...I think we are closer to Wisconsin talent wise than Webber was to us (not that we are even close to the badgers)

[FormerPokeCenter]

We played WVU last year and we called off the dogs in the second quarter. The score was STILL 76-0. We didn't throw a pass in the second half....

They had fist fights amongst their players on the field, and on the sideline during the game.

We played 3rd and 4th teamers, who are obviously going to try to make the most of opportunities.

What do you tell them, not to score?

WV Tech was a Division II school a few years back when they made the games with McNeese and Western Kentucky, but have since dropped to NAIA.....

[FCSFAN]

Here are two scores that caught my attention scrolling at the bottom of the ESPN screen: The Citadel 76, Weber International 0 and Western Kentucky 87, West Virginia Tech 0. What is the deal with these two schools? What division are they in? If they are this bad, maybe they shouldn't even have football teams. In any event, was it really necessary for El Cid and WKU to score as much as they did, or were the teams they were playing just so bad that they couldn't help it? By the way, I happen to notice that the Citadel is at Wisconsin next week. Boy, what a stepup! THEY might be on the other side of a lopsided score! Not saying they will for sure, but it definitely could happen.Western Kentucky is not FCS in case you did not know. What they do is their own FBS business. The Citadel could have taken knees considering the situation, other teams have. xtwocentsx

[mvemjsunpx]

The Citadel could have taken knees considering the situation, other teams have. xtwocentsx


Why would anyone do that?

The fans didn't come to a game to see 27 kneel downs in a row by the home team. How do you think the 2nd. & 3rd. stringers would feel when, now that they have a chance to actually play for a significant amount of time, the coach forbids them from doing anything out of fear of "embarrassing someone"

I like the Mick Dennehy philosophy: "If you can't beat my 2nd. & 3rd. string, that's too bad."

These are adult football players, it's up to them to not be embarrassed.

[patssle]

Theres only so much you can do. SHSU kicked a field goal from the 1/2 yard line and kneed it at the 6 yard line to keep from running our score up. Hell we ran it like 10 times in a row and still got a TD on a 3rd stringer RB.

[kardplayer]

...
These are adult football players, it's up to them to not be embarrassed.

Except the players don't schedule the games - the AD does.

Its not like these are conference games where the players signed up to play in a league they couldn't compete in, that would be a different story.

I'm sure the "adult football players" would rather be faced with teams that were more on their talent level...

[mvemjsunpx]

Except the players don't schedule the games - the AD does.

Its not like these are conference games where the players signed up to play in a league they couldn't compete in, that would be a different story.

I'm sure the "adult football players" would rather be faced with teams that were more on their talent level...


Maybe so, but it's not like suffering a blowout loss is some horrible, life-altering event. It happens to virtually every team & every college football player. I don't think these athletes need to have their feelings spared, especially when not doing so has much more practical benefit for both sides.

[AZGrizFan]

Here are two scores that caught my attention scrolling at the bottom of the ESPN screen: The Citadel 76, Weber International 0 and Western Kentucky 87, West Virginia Tech 0. What is the deal with these two schools? What division are they in? If they are this bad, maybe they shouldn't even have football teams. In any event, was it really necessary for El Cid and WKU to score as much as they did, or were the teams they were playing just so bad that they couldn't help it? By the way, I happen to notice that the Citadel is at Wisconsin next week. Boy, what a stepup! THEY might be on the other side of a lopsided score! Not saying they will for sure, but it definitely could happen.

And the Griz get crap for scheduling Fort Lewis. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[chattanoogamocs]

To quote a FBS coach for a team I don't like, Phil "the great pumpkin" Fulmer was once asked if Steve Superior ran up the score on them in a UF/UTK game...Fat Phil said: "It's not their job to stop playing offense, it is our job to start playing defense".

But to answer the question, I don't think the Citadel ran the score up necessarily...I just think Webber is gawd awful.

It does beg the question though, is Les Robinson good buddies with the AD at Webber? The Bulldogs will be playing them in basketball this season too (and the Webber basketball team is just as bad as its football team).

[gophoenix]

No, Webber should not drop football. No one should drop football. There are only a handful of schools that offer it still. Let's try to commend the schools who have it, despite how bad they are.

IMHO, any time a team scores more than 70 points, I have to question motives and whether they were running up the score. I don't know why 70 is the limit for me but it is.

WKU is technically FBS. So why are they playing a BAD D-II team. They could have played any number of FCS or FBS schools but chose a bad D-II that offers nearly 50 less scholarships that WKU gives now.

With that said, Webber and WVT were looking for paydays and got it at the expense of their poor teams. So, as much as I want to blame WKU and The Citadel, I have to blame the other admins just as much. But then, by that same token, WKU and The Citadel didn't have to play them.


o quote a FBS coach for a team I don't like, Phil "the great pumpkin" Fulmer was once asked if Steve Superior ran up the score on them in a UF/UTK game...Fat Phil said: "It's not their job to stop playing offense, it is our job to start playing defense".

While I agree with this, you are quoting two coaches from the same division. There is no reason an FBS school should be playing a school 2 levels down. But still....

[CID1990]

We do play them every year in basketball (one of the few teams we can always beat, I think), so there is a relationship there. There was also a byline story in the press since there are two high school classmates (Wbber's QB and one of El Cid's players) who were on opposite sidelines for this game. Coach Higgins says we actually looked at WIU's quarterback, and had we needed to recruit a third one, he would have been our guy.

I said earlier, for those who bothered to read it, that Coach Higgins did all he could to keep the score down. Our defense did some scoring in the game, and the whole first team was on the bench after the first half.

I find it ironic that this thread was started by an ASU fan. ASU is a great team and a great program, but unlike The Citadel, ASU schedules a lower division team (read: cupcake) EVERY YEAR. For the last several years, two of our overall losses each season have been to schools in the big BCS conferences.

Should we have played Newberry, Davidson or even PC instead? Yes. Did anyone at the game feel comfortable with that score? Nope.

Come to think of it, whenever The Citadel gets whipped by one of those big BCS schools, none of you people ever come out and say, "Gee, that was really bush-league of LSU/FSU/Pitt/Texas A&M/Florida/Gatech/Auburn to run the score up on The Citadel like that." In fact, the only thing we hear from the trolls and media types is how masochistic we were for scheduling those teams.

If it makes you feel better that we will get "our medicine" next week, then so be it. Just watch out that WE don't give YOU some of the same medicine later in the season.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I think the WV Tech game was made several years ago, BEFORE they got to be as bad as they are.

Their former coach was pretty aggressive with scheduling....

[citdog]

it's THE Citadel and no, and no.



that will be all

[HiHiYikas]

I find it ironic that this thread was started by an ASU fan...
Woffordgrad94 is a strange name for an ASU fan. Being an ASU fan, he probably knows that, since 1990, the Mountaineers have played 22 I-A's and 3 DII's.

[Killtoppers90]

In regards to our game this weekend, it was scheduled several years ago when they were D-II and Coach E has ties to the school somehow I think. Either way, tyhe score was 53-0 by halftime, Elson basically put in the scrubs after that. What were we to do? Just stop playing? yeah it was embarassing for both side but what were the choices?

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Your second and third stringers, especially if they are younger players, aren't going to get any experience if you just take knees or tell them not to play good.

[gophoenix]

Your second and third stringers, especially if they are younger players, aren't going to get any experience if you just take knees or tell them not to play good.

no, but you can put 2nd and 3rd stringers in from the 2nd quarter on and such rather than waiting until halftime.

Or take a look at what App did, they played Elder for the entire game, even when Edwards could have started.

[OL FU]

no, but you can put 2nd and 3rd stringers in from the 2nd quarter on and such rather than waiting until halftime.

Or take a look at what App did, they played Elder for the entire game, even when Edwards could have started.

Elder is not the typical second string player.

[walliver]

The problem with second and third stringers is that these people want to be first stringers and go into the game with the hope of doing something big. And you can't blame them. Wofford put it the third team quarterback late against Charleston Southern and run two simple plays, a triple option for 20 years and then a fullback give to a freshman for a 30 yard touchdown with 30 seconds left in the game. With a 45 to 24 lead at the time, the drive bothered me, on the other hand, the third team quarterback and freshman fullback do not really need to practice a quarterback kneel and a give to the fullback usually doesn't gain a lot of yardage.

[Black and Gold Express]

The Citadel could have taken knees considering the situation, other teams have. xtwocentsx

If we're talking the final minute of the 4th quarter yes. Anytime before that, that's stupid. You cannot tell players not to play, especially the guys at the end of the bench that were seeing likely their only significant action of the season not to go out and execute.

As long as the playcalling was fair (and it sounds like it was), if the scrubs ring up touchdowns then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[OL FU]

We can debate all day, but if a team is that badly mis-matched one should expect a large margin of victory. It is just the way things go.

[Black and Gold Express]

Elder is not the typical second string player.

That is true. We also had the majority of the second string offense in by the second quarter, we had the 2nd string O-line in before that. We rotate a lot of players on the O-line so the dropoff is not too much usually.

That being said, I was surprised the first team defense took the field in the 3rd quarter.

[OL FU]

That is true. We also had the majority of the second string offense in by the second quarter, we had the 2nd string O-line in before that. We rotate a lot of players on the O-line so the dropoff is not too much usually.

That being said, I was surprised the first team defense took the field in the 3rd quarter.


I wasn't being critical. Seems obvious that you guys took it easy on them to some extent. I was just making the point that putting Elder in doesn't seem like a big concession considering he would start for a large number of FCS teams.xnodx

[McNeese72]

Hey guys,

I don't know about The Citadel but I am positive that Western Kentucky didn't run up the score on West Virginia Tech. If they had, the score would have been 100+.

From what we saw of WVTech last year, they are terrible. We didn't throw a single pass the second half and fair caught all punts no matter what. And we still beat them 76-0.

Don't just look at the score and jump on WKU without knowing the situation. You can't ask the 2nd, 3rd, 4th stringers, waterboy, managers, student trainers, etc. to just quit playing. Yes WVTech is that bad.

Doc

[HiHiYikas]

I know a couple of kids who played for WV Tech. Good athletes in general, but one (if I recall correctly) didn't even play HS football. Not exactly a high level of competition.

[Black and Gold Express]

I wasn't being critical. Seems obvious that you guys took it easy on them to some extent. I was just making the point that putting Elder in doesn't seem like a big concession considering he would start for a large number of FCS teams.xnodx

True, I understand.

I will say this on the whole running up the score thing. There are some sitautions where I have no problem with it. There are cases where I would justify it on basis on big picture thinking. For example, a new coaching staff takes over and the team is learning a whole new playbook. I don't have a problem with the plays being run as they would be in a more normal game to get the players added experience. You can only learn so much in practice, and this is a stress-free place to get the players down the right path more.

On a similar note, if a program that has been stuck in a losing streak finds itself on the good end of one of these games, that can be a confidence builder. Confidence plays no small role in a team's performance, and again looking at the bigger picture it might be worth it to get these guys seeing positive results from their work and having that be a foundation for a return to winning ways.

[SoCon48]

Hey guys,

I don't know about The Citadel but I am positive that Western Kentucky didn't run up the score on West Virginia Tech. If they had, the score would have been 100+.

From what we saw of WVTech last year, they are terrible. We didn't throw a single pass the second half and fair caught all punts no matter what. And we still beat them 76-0.

Don't just look at the score and jump on WKU without knowing the situation. You can't ask the 2nd, 3rd, 4th stringers, waterboy, managers, student trainers, etc. to just quit playing. Yes WVTech is that bad.

Doc

WKU did pass against WV Tech this year, anyway.

09:37 WKU - Cooper, Qntrnce 31 yd pass from Black, K.J. (Minturn, Zac kick)
4 plays, 32 yards, TOP 0:33, WVUTECH 0 - WKU 66

[CID1990]

Woffordgrad94 is a strange name for an ASU fan. Being an ASU fan, he probably knows that, since 1990, the Mountaineers have played 22 I-A's and 3 DII's.

Sorry, I meant to say that the quote was from an ASU fan.

[CID1990]

If I seemed a little sensitive about the inference that The Citadel players and coaches should somehow be ashamed of the score, it is because to suggest that a team has run up the score in a game is to suggest bad sportsmanship. In fact, running up the score against a mismatched opponent IS bad sportsmanship. If the alumni and fans who saw the game felt like Coach Higgins had intentionally run up the score, he would be hearing about it. The fact is that WIU stank badly, and believe it or not, The Citadel appears to be more improved this year than expected. Time will tell on the latter.

Folks can accuse The Citadel's football program of many things, from historical mediocrity, to being a little bit mercenary at the expense of the players (Like playing two FBS teams on average per year), but one thing we have always prided ourselves on is good sportsmanship, since sportsmanship is synonymous with honor.

[citdog]

If I seemed a little sensitive about the inference that The Citadel players and coaches should somehow be ashamed of the score, it is because to suggest that a team has run up the score in a game is to suggest bad sportsmanship. In fact, running up the score against a mismatched opponent IS bad sportsmanship. If the alumni and fans who saw the game felt like Coach Higgins had intentionally run up the score, he would be hearing about it. The fact is that WIU stank badly, and believe it or not, The Citadel appears to be more improved this year than expected. Time will tell on the latter.

Folks can accuse The Citadel's football program of many things, from historical mediocrity, to being a little bit mercenary at the expense of the players (Like playing two FBS teams on average per year), but one thing we have always prided ourselves on is good sportsmanship, since sportsmanship is synonymous with honor.


citdog in his best Ed Mcmahon voice..............YOU ARE CORRECT SIR!

[ChooChoo]

I know a current redshirt freshman at WV Tech. He told me going into that game that they knew they were going to have their hands full. Although these blow-outs are unfortunate, sometimes it just is what it is. Play the game, take your lumps, and learn form it. IMHO a kid can learn more about their team and their character from such a loss than from blowout wins.

[catdaddy2402]

I've played and coached various sports and to me it's more embarassing to have a team take it easy on you and beat you like 43-0 than it is to get beat 76-0 while they play their style game. When a team takes it easy on you essentially they are saying "You can't stop us, so bless your heart we are stopping ourselves."

Not to mention the fact that it's not fair to your backup players, many who will likely never see the playing field in any other role, to ask them just to kneel on the ball.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Just to clarify a few things. Western Kentucky did not run up the score on West Virginia Tech. Elson put in many, many reserves as early as the 2nd quarter and limited the passing plays. The score was 49-0 at the end of the 1st quarter.

Western Kentucky had this game scheduled several years in advance. I'm not sure why because West Virginia Tech is an NAIA school, not a Division II school.

I don't agree with any Division 1-A or 1-AA school playing an NAIA school, but I guess Elson has a history with that school and kept it on the schedule. Western Kentucky is classified as a 1-AA Independent this year in transition. They are not a member of the Gateway anymore and are not eligible for the 1-AA playoffs.

[The Cats]

the answer is YES

[EKU05]

I hate it when I'm compelled to defend the Hilltoppers, but the only mistake they made was playing that team in the first place. WV Tech is reclassifying from DII to NAIA...they are in terrible, terrible shape. Well over half of those WKU points came in the first quarter...so obviously they did slack off. I'll give them a pass on the scheduling ONLY because that's tough to do as a transitional independent.

When you put in those third string guys for some rare PT are you just supposed to tell them not to try? That's a joke.

[galojay]

I was at the game. WKU did what they could to stop the bleeding. We ran the fire out of the ball, few passes. We tried to keep the clock going but the ref wouldn't let us. Heck, we started taking knees. They just kept fumbling the ball deep in their side. They fumbled one in their own end zone. I don't think they made it past their own side of the field.
Problem was we scored so many points in the first quarter. And as mentioned, you can't expect 2nd and 3rd string players not to play well. They want to be 1st string!

It is tough in year one of transition. I-A schools don't want to play you because you count as a I-AA win. I-AA's don't want to play you because you have more scholarships and they would likely lose. WKU needed some homes games (WKU still only has five home games).

We won't play anything less than a I-AA after this year. Next year WKU will have 10 I-A games and 2 I-AA (Murray State and @EKU).


PS - I am freaking out-- both a MTSU fan and an EKU fan defended WKU in the same thread. WOW!

[RaiderInTheZone]

I was at the game. WKU did what they could to stop the bleeding. We ran the fire out of the ball, few passes. We tried to keep the clock going but the ref wouldn't let us. Heck, we started taking knees. They just kept fumbling the ball deep in their side. They fumbled one in their own end zone. I don't think they made it past their own side of the field.
Problem was we scored so many points in the first quarter. And as mentioned, you can't expect 2nd and 3rd string players not to play well. They want to be 1st string!

It is tough in year one of transition. I-A schools don't want to play you because you count as a I-AA win. I-AA's don't want to play you because you have more scholarships and they would likely lose. WKU needed some homes games (WKU still only has five home games).

We won't play anything less than a I-AA after this year. Next year WKU will have 10 I-A games and 2 I-AA (Murray State and @EKU).


PS - I am freaking out-- both a MTSU fan and an EKU fan defended WKU in the same thread. WOW!

You're preaching to the choir, Galojay. Fans of 1-AA schools view schools that play 1-A football as the Dark Side. They don't like you and will make any kind of lame excuse to try to lift themselves up. They try to find the bad in any kind of circumstance that former 1-AA schools get put into when they transition and compete in 1-A. Typical of 1-AA fans. Just let it go. You'll never convince them that your school didn't run up the score. They are just too uneducated enough to analyze the game such as the number of points scored by quarters and the play-by-play which is available on Western Kentucky's website under statistics for the game in question. I can't wait until Western is playing in the Sun Belt as a full member. Once Denver leaves in 2011, our league's affiliation will be complete.

[OL FU]

You're preaching to the choir, Galojay. Fans of 1-AA schools view schools that play 1-A football as the Dark Side. They don't like you and will make any kind of lame excuse to try to lift themselves up. They try to find the bad in any kind of circumstance that former 1-AA schools get put into when they transition and compete in 1-A. Typical of 1-AA fans. Just let it go. You'll never convince them that your school didn't run up the score. They are just too uneducated enough to analyze the game such as the number of points scored by quarters and the play-by-play which is available on Western Kentucky's website under statistics for the game in question. I can't wait until Western is playing in the Sun Belt as a full member. Once Denver leaves in 2011, our league's affiliation will be complete.

Seems like THE Citadel was part of this thread tooxrolleyesx

[citdog]

Seems like THE Citadel was part of this thread tooxrolleyesx

good boy!

[lizrdgizrd]

You're preaching to the choir, Galojay. Fans of 1-AA schools view schools that play 1-A football as the Dark Side. They don't like you and will make any kind of lame excuse to try to lift themselves up. They try to find the bad in any kind of circumstance that former 1-AA schools get put into when they transition and compete in 1-A. Typical of 1-AA fans. Just let it go. You'll never convince them that your school didn't run up the score. They are just too uneducated enough to analyze the game such as the number of points scored by quarters and the play-by-play which is available on Western Kentucky's website under statistics for the game in question. I can't wait until Western is playing in the Sun Belt as a full member. Once Denver leaves in 2011, our league's affiliation will be complete.
Just ignore the fact that this thread asks if I-A transition team - WKU - and I-AA confederate (just for you, citdog) - Citadel (also for you, citdog) - both ran up the score. Seems a reasonable question given the scores.

Your inferiority complex has you trying to defend your soon-to-be-brethren where no defense is necessary. If you bothered reading the thread, you'd have seen plenty of I-AA fans defending the Hilltoppers because they managed to penetrate the mysteries of game statistics. xnonono2x