North Dakota State situation vs St. Thomas of Minnesota

[Boogs]

For those of you unfamiliar, St. Thomas of Minnesota was forced out of D3 into the Pioneer Football League/FCS because they won too much in their conference even though they did not get the ultimate Stagg Bowl rings like Mount Union/Wisconsin Whitewater.

In the same way, why haven't the fellow athletic directors in the Missouri Valley Football Conference kicked out the Bison into FBS?

If St. Thomas of Minnesota can charter flights across the United States for their new PFL foes, why can't North Dakota State do the same by either being an independent FBS school or join the Big Ten?

[Laker]

St Thomas has wanted to go D1 since the early 1980s. I remember reading Sid Hartman's columns in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune which claimed they considered changing the name to the University of St Paul. They really didn't fight getting kicked out because it gave them the excuse to skip all of that probationary time moving to D2 first, then D1. They had a conference that wanted them- which really threw Augustana for a loop. The MIAC did them a favor.

They have dominated more in other MIAC sports than they have in football.

The BIG doesn't want NDSU. Not an AAU school for one thing- all of the BIG schools are except Nebraska, who used to be. MVFC would be crazy to drop them- they bring more people in for road games than some of the home schools.

[Bisonator]

Yes please kick us out! The sooner the better! xlolx

[Boogs]

They had a conference that wanted them- which really threw Augustana for a loop.

What is that about? Which Augustana?

[Laker]

What is that about? Which Augustana?

D2 Augustana of Sioux Falls. They never have embraced the NSIC, have won D2 titles in men's basketball, baseball and softball. They are adding men's hockey. With a student body of only about 2000 and a landlocked campus, beside USD and SDSU not wanting them in the Summit (football would be Pioneer) they were not happy at all when St Thomas jumped in front of them.

[dewey]

For those of you unfamiliar, St. Thomas of Minnesota was forced out of D3 into the Pioneer Football League/FCS because they won too much in their conference even though they did not get the ultimate Stagg Bowl rings like Mount Union/Wisconsin Whitewater.

In the same way, why haven't the fellow athletic directors in the Missouri Valley Football Conference kicked out the Bison into FBS?

If St. Thomas of Minnesota can charter flights across the United States for their new PFL foes, why can't North Dakota State do the same by either being an independent FBS school or join the Big Ten?

I love NDSU but there is absolutely no way in God's green Earth they will ever be in the Big Ten.

Dewey

[mmiller_34]

St Thomas had much better funding for athletics than the rest of the teams in the MIAC. At most of the other MIAC schools, athletics simply isn’t a priority. It was dumb they got kicked out, but it was better for all parties that it happened the way it did.

No way my Bison will ever be in the Big Ten. I am a huge supporter of Bison to the MWC tho.


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[Bisonoline]

For those of you unfamiliar, St. Thomas of Minnesota was forced out of D3 into the Pioneer Football League/FCS because they won too much in their conference even though they did not get the ultimate Stagg Bowl rings like Mount Union/Wisconsin Whitewater.

In the same way, why haven't the fellow athletic directors in the Missouri Valley Football Conference kicked out the Bison into FBS?

If St. Thomas of Minnesota can charter flights across the United States for their new PFL foes, why can't North Dakota State do the same by either being an independent FBS school or join the Big Ten?

They do fly every where. To join a conference you have to be invited. To go Independent you better have a war chest full of cash as its going to be hard to find games and you will find few who will want to fly to Fargo unless they are going to get paid. So youre going to be on the road a lot which doesnt help with the fans and cash flow.

[JacksFan40]

NDSU isn’t going Big Ten, as mentioned by Laker they’re not an AAU school and they bring nothing in terms of market power. The last time the Big Ten expanded was for Maryland and Rutgers, who brought in the DC and NYC markets respectively, Fargo-Moorhead isn’t quite that big.

Being an Independent depends on if they can put together as reasonable schedule. The only way NDSU moves up is if the MWC comes calling.

[NDB]

Maryland and Rutgers did not bring the dc and NYC markets.

[Hammerhead]

Doesn’t the NCAA require a conference invite to move up to the FBS?

[Boogs]

Doesn’t the NCAA require a conference invite to move up to the FBS?

It's like entering the work force after graduating. You get yourself invited by contacting the conference you'd like to join and you present yourself as a resource person by presenting what you have to offer.

In the same way, do you sit around at home waiting for some gal to ask you out? No, you go out and act independent at social events and that makes the gal want to get to know you.

[dewey]

It's like entering the work force after graduating. You get yourself invited by contacting the conference you'd like to join and you present yourself as a resource person by presenting what you have to offer.

In the same way, do you sit around at home waiting for some gal to ask you out? No, you go out and act independent at social events and that makes the gal want to get to know you.

You are assuming that NDSU hasn't done this already....

The Big Ten would laugh at NDSU presenting a case to be added to the conference. NDSU could (perhaps already has) made a presentation to the MWC.

Making a case that a middle school dance is the same as college athletics is laughable.

Dewey

[Bisonoline]

It's like entering the work force after graduating. You get yourself invited by contacting the conference you'd like to join and you present yourself as a resource person by presenting what you have to offer.

In the same way, do you sit around at home waiting for some gal to ask you out? No, you go out and act independent at social events and that makes the gal want to get to know you.

xblahxxblahxxblahxxblahxxblahxxblahxxblahx

[Professor Chaos]

It's like entering the work force after graduating. You get yourself invited by contacting the conference you'd like to join and you present yourself as a resource person by presenting what you have to offer.

In the same way, do you sit around at home waiting for some gal to ask you out? No, you go out and act independent at social events and that makes the gal want to get to know you.
Ok, here's the continuation of that analogy.

You started work in a fledgling start up (Great West Conference) and doing pretty well there you were able to parlay that into an employment offer with an established regional employer in the industry (Gateway/MVFC conference). Now you're doing super well and are looking to move to one of the top employers nationally in your industry. The problem is these employers all tell you they need you to re-locate to gain employment with them and you can't/won't.


Geography is and always will be the great limiting factor to NDSU's move to FBS. Program pedigree is a very distant 2nd (at best) to geography when it comes to conference realignment. NDSU can't afford to go the Liberty route and go FBS as an independent and even if they did they'd very likely neuter the program in the process by putting themselves on an island in scheduling hell. When NDSU moves up it almost has to be with one or more regional partners also currently in FCS.

[dgtw]

I could see NDSU getting in the MWC if they get gutted in a future realignment. But they aren’t getting in the Big Ten even if they join the AAU and become known as Harvard West. It is as silly as me saying Jax State will be in the SEC.


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[JSUSoutherner]

why can't North Dakota State do the same by joining the Big Ten?

I just choked on my own spit reading this.

Are you having a stroke?

[Professor Chaos]

I could see NDSU getting in the MWC if they get gutted in a future realignment. But they aren’t getting in the Big Ten even if they join the AAU and become known as Harvard West. It is as silly as me saying Jax State will be in the SEC.


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I've seen a few people saying that the MWC is the perfect or ideal situation for NDSU and I still don't see it. Fargo is as close to Laramie (the closest MWC school) as we are to Indianapolis. The MWC is probably the best of a bunch of poor options when it comes to geography fit just because the MWC itself is all spread out anyway. Unless NDSU can parlay a football only invite, which seems unlikely, this really hurts all the other sports.

[dgtw]

I've seen a few people saying that the MWC is the perfect or ideal situation for NDSU and I still don't see it. Fargo is as close to Laramie (the closest MWC school) as we are to Indianapolis. The MWC is probably the best of a bunch of poor options when it comes to geography fit just because the MWC itself is all spread out anyway. Unless NDSU can parlay a football only invite, which seems unlikely, this really hurts all the other sports.

You’d be an outlier for sure in the MWC but it doesn’t look like there are a lot of bus trips for anyone in that league. I doubt they’d want you as football-only. I get you are the biggest name in FCS but you’d be just another G5 if you moved up. They have Hawaii as a football associate but clearly they are a special case.

If St. Thomas decided to offer football scholarships, would the Summit consider sponsoring football and telling the MVFC to kick rocks?


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[atthewbon]

Maryland and Rutgers did not bring the dc and NYC markets.

It brought the Big Ten Network to these two cities and people payed for it wether they wanted to or not. With cable tv falling out of favor just being in a big market doesn’t mean as much anymore bc most people in big cities (at least DC) care a lot more about pro sports. (Although when umd basketball is good people care I’d imagine if the football teams gets good people would as well). NDSU brings absolutely nothing to the big ten (neither does Kansas, K-state, or any other big 12 team that haven’t left for the SEC). The MWC could make sense but it won’t happen unless someone else leaves bc adding NDSU isn’t adding enough revenue to compensate the cut they’ll take from the conference. (Plus travel will be a lot for non-revenue sports).

[Professor Chaos]

If St. Thomas decided to offer football scholarships, would the Summit consider sponsoring football and telling the MVFC to kick rocks?
I hope not. Summit football doesn't do much to stabilize the conference and losing the MVC publics like Illinois St, Indiana St, Missouri St, and UNI would hurt the overall strength of the league. At some point the MVFC will get too big for their own good if the Summit and MVC keep adding football schools but adding one more team to get to 12 would be alright IMO.

[BisonFan02]

I hope not. Summit football doesn't do much to stabilize the conference and losing the MVC publics like Illinois St, Indiana St, Missouri St, and UNI would hurt the overall strength of the league. At some point the MVFC will get too big for their own good if the Summit and MVC keep adding football schools but adding one more team to get to 12 would be alright IMO.

If NDSU stays FCS, Summit league football potentially only helps stabilize the Summit league for all sports (versus non-football table scraps that have been a revolving door). No offense to some, but NDSU is a football first school....and it can only help their Summit League schedule if there were more familiar conference game foes on it.

In short.....I couldn't give a **** less about the MVC members of the MVFC...good riddance. xlolx

[Professor Chaos]

If NDSU stays FCS, Summit league football potentially only helps stabilize the Summit league for all sports (versus non-football table scraps that have been a revolving door). No offense to some, but NDSU is a football first school....and it can only help their Summit League schedule if there were more familiar conference game foes on it.

In short.....I couldn't give a **** less about the MVC members of the MVFC...good riddance. xlolx
NDSU is a football first school and the MVFC with the Summit football schools, the MVC publics, and YSU is a better football conference than just the Summit football schools. A strong MVFC keeps the football schools in the Summit from going anywhere just like a strong Summit League football conference would and I don't see how that Summit League football conference could be stronger than the current MVFC (unless you could convince the MVC publics to join as football affiliates).

[BisonFan02]

NDSU is a football first school and the MVFC with the Summit football schools, the MVC publics, and YSU is a better football conference than just the Summit football schools. A strong MVFC keeps the football schools in the Summit from going anywhere just like a strong Summit League football conference would and I don't see how that Summit League football conference could be stronger than the current MVFC (unless you could convince the MVC publics to join as football affiliates).

All sports Summit League......Summit League runs the scholly football side of things...and can use football/all sports when navigating school recruitment/retention.

[dgtw]

Is there a “divide” in the Summit between the football and non-football members?


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[taper]

Is there a “divide” in the Summit between the football and non-football members?


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No more than any other conference. I think several would prefer a "better" conference, but what school in all of NCAA doesn't? Kansas City and Oral Roberts left but came back after realizing the grass isn't always greener. Summit's also had almost complete turnover in the last 20 years, hopefully we're finally relatively stable.

[Mocs123]

As much as I want to see someone other than NDSU win National Championships, I'm not sure winning too much is a valid reason to kick someone out. It's not like they are spending significantly more than other top tier FCS programs (I'm looking at you JMU) from what I could tell either. It might be different if they were spending so much on football that nobody else can afford to compete.

Using that same logic of kicking NDSU to FBS we should make Alabama move to the NFL. Of course with Name, Image, and Likeness rules that's probably not far off.

[wapiti]

I thought this thread was going to be about a game being scheduled between these 2 teams.

[JSUSoutherner]

I thought this thread was going to be about a game being scheduled between these 2 teams.

I'm still hung up on the "why doesn't NDSU just go to the Big 10" suggestion. Lol

[POD Knows]

I'm still hung up on the "why doesn't NDSU just go to the Big 10" suggestion. Lol
I didn’t realize this but this thread was started by the same guy that thinks Urban Meyer and Dayton would be a good fit.

[McCowboys]

I didn’t realize this but this thread was started by the same guy that thinks Urban Meyer and Dayton would be a good fit.

POD, I didn't recognize you without the Sam Houston helmet logo!

[POD Knows]

POD, I didn't recognize you without the Sam Houston helmet logo!
Got rid of it New Years Eve. I feel smarter and more successful already.

[Carolina010]

I don’t post very often more of just a reader. I’m not sure if this guy actually believes these things or if he is trying to make a name for himself but these last two threads he started might be some of the worst I’ve seen here.

Just looked and he has been around for almost 15 years. He definitely has come crazy ideas.