Could JMU, Jax State & Sam Leave Conferences a Year Earlier?

[TexasTerror]

I recently listened to the radio interview that JMU AD Bourne did with ESPN in Harrisonburg (https://soundcloud.com/espn-harrisonburg/jeff-bourne-jmu-director-of-athletics-2).


Quick synopsis:




James Madison is seeking to eliminate one year from the FCS to FBS transition along with Sam Houston and Jacksonville State
JMU is being offered eight games (four home / four away) by the Sun Belt for '22 season if they can get assistance from NCAA with this transition which would make them bowl eligible in '23 instead of '24
JMU AD indicates that they need to have five FBS home games as part of the transition (did not verify if fellow transitioning schools Sam Houston/Jacksonville St would count)
JMU AD felt very confident that they would be in the Sun Belt in July '22 in all sports and mentioned football is basically what would get them over the hump




My general and ideal scenario on this from a Sam Houston perspective.




Sam Houston is able to do similar.
The Kats would play an eight game CUSA schedule which for a year may actually include games against UTSA, North Texas and Rice who would still be around.
The ninth game would be Texas A&M.
For the 10th and 11th games, JMU engages in a round robin with Sam and Jacksonville St. This would give each a fifth FBS home game. Got to presume the NCAA would count this.
The 12th game (if this is counted as the second year of a transition and not the FCS Independent year) would be Northern Arizona at Bowers to finish the home and home.




Seems that there’s a lot of “ifs” scenarios here but if James Madison can do it and three programs are leaving CUSA a year early, why not? Sam should do whatever it can to take advantage of any efforts JMU is.


And that’s my two cents!


For similar threads, discussions on other boards...

KatFans.com (https://www.katfans.com/katsforum/showthread.php?23480-JMU-Attempting-to-Expedite-Transition-Sam-Too/)
Dukes' Domain (https://csnbbs.com/thread-937469.html)
CUSAbbs (https://csnbbs.com/thread-937192.html)

[ysubigred]

I recently listened to the radio interview that JMU AD Bourne did with ESPN in Harrisonburg (https://soundcloud.com/espn-harrisonburg/jeff-bourne-jmu-director-of-athletics-2).


Quick synopsis:




James Madison is seeking to eliminate one year from the FCS to FBS transition along with Sam Houston and Jacksonville State
JMU is being offered eight games (four home / four away) by the Sun Belt for '22 season if they can get assistance from NCAA with this transition which would make them bowl eligible in '23 instead of '24
JMU AD indicates that they need to have five FBS home games as part of the transition (did not verify if fellow transitioning schools Sam Houston/Jacksonville St would count)
JMU AD felt very confident that they would be in the Sun Belt in July '22 in all sports and mentioned football is basically what would get them over the hump




My general and ideal scenario on this from a Sam Houston perspective.




Sam Houston is able to do similar.
The Kats would play an eight game CUSA schedule which for a year may actually include games against UTSA, North Texas and Rice who would still be around.
The ninth game would be Texas A&M.
For the 10th and 11th games, JMU engages in a round robin with Sam and Jacksonville St. This would give each a fifth FBS home game. Got to presume the NCAA would count this.
The 12th game (if this is counted as the second year of a transition and not the FCS Independent year) would be Northern Arizona at Bowers to finish the home and home.




Seems that there’s a lot of “ifs” scenarios here but if James Madison can do it and three programs are leaving CUSA a year early, why not? Sam should do whatever it can to take advantage of any efforts JMU is.


And that’s my two cents!


For similar threads, discussions on other boards...

KatFans.com (https://www.katfans.com/katsforum/showthread.php?23480-JMU-Attempting-to-Expedite-Transition-Sam-Too/)
Dukes' Domain (https://csnbbs.com/thread-937469.html)
CUSAbbs (https://csnbbs.com/thread-937192.html)

I believe the 1 year transition is to help with the additional scholarships to the school to get a better recruiting class/players.. Although JMU, Sammy and Jax St. should already do well in their new conferences with out the additional schollies LOL!!

Good luck to all!

[TexasTerror]

I believe the 1 year transition is to help with the additional scholarships to the school to get a better recruiting class/players.. Although JMU, Sammy and Jax St. should already do well in their new conferences with out the additional schollies LOL!! Good luck to all!

All three schools can get up to 85 scholarships when they want. It does not make sense in many regards due to wanting to balance the classes and things of that nature...

In JMU's case, the desire to expedite the transition has everything to do with the Colonial not allowing all their sports teams to compete for postseason tournaments, automatic qualification. Football would not be a qualifier anyway (FBS or FCS) in '22 though JMU is hoping that they can get a waiver in light of circumstance(s) to speed up their move to the Sun Belt. The problem with moving to the Sun Belt in all sports is that you are then jeopardizing your Colonial football schedule in '22 so there's the problem the Dukes have, thus necessitating what they are seeking.

As it stands now, JMU would be a FCS Independent playing a CAA schedule in '22 while Sam for instance would be a FCS Independent playing a WAC schedule in '22.

[MSUBobcat]

I recently listened to the radio interview that JMU AD Bourne did with ESPN in Harrisonburg (https://soundcloud.com/espn-harrisonburg/jeff-bourne-jmu-director-of-athletics-2).


Quick synopsis:




James Madison is seeking to eliminate one year from the FCS to FBS transition along with Sam Houston and Jacksonville State
JMU is being offered eight games (four home / four away) by the Sun Belt for '22 season if they can get assistance from NCAA with this transition which would make them bowl eligible in '23 instead of '24
JMU AD indicates that they need to have five FBS home games as part of the transition (did not verify if fellow transitioning schools Sam Houston/Jacksonville St would count)
JMU AD felt very confident that they would be in the Sun Belt in July '22 in all sports and mentioned football is basically what would get them over the hump




My general and ideal scenario on this from a Sam Houston perspective.




Sam Houston is able to do similar.
The Kats would play an eight game CUSA schedule which for a year may actually include games against UTSA, North Texas and Rice who would still be around.
The ninth game would be Texas A&M.
For the 10th and 11th games, JMU engages in a round robin with Sam and Jacksonville St. This would give each a fifth FBS home game. Got to presume the NCAA would count this.
The 12th game (if this is counted as the second year of a transition and not the FCS Independent year) would be Northern Arizona at Bowers to finish the home and home.




Seems that there’s a lot of “ifs” scenarios here but if James Madison can do it and three programs are leaving CUSA a year early, why not? Sam should do whatever it can to take advantage of any efforts JMU is.


And that’s my two cents!


For similar threads, discussions on other boards...

KatFans.com (https://www.katfans.com/katsforum/showthread.php?23480-JMU-Attempting-to-Expedite-Transition-Sam-Too/)
Dukes' Domain (https://csnbbs.com/thread-937469.html)
CUSAbbs (https://csnbbs.com/thread-937192.html)

No idea how this would be handled, but would seem to be an odd end-around the rule to allow a non-counter become a counter in effort to turn the non-counter into a counter. Kind of a chicken-or-the-egg situation.

[KPSUL]

It will be interesting to see what happens.

The Sun Belt committing to JMU 8 conference games - how might that effect the 8 team chosen? Does JMU count as an FBS or FCS win for them? Doesn't only one FCS win count towards their 6 Div 1 wins to be bowl qualified? Most will already have an FCS game scheduled.

How easy will it be for JMU, SHSU and JSU to at least schedule 11 games? I don't see CAA teams stepping to fill JMU's schedule. With 11 teams remaining - no problem getting everyone 8 conference games, and most already have their 3 OOC games scheduled. It might also be hard to schedule G5 team, particularly at JMU. Of course UMass, UConn and Liberty may not have filled their dance cards - but they'd likely be looking for home games, and will playing and beating JMU qualify as a bowl qualifying win? Playing JMU might be a no-benefit proposition - lose and negatively effect bowl eligibility or win and gain virtually nothing.

[Libertine]

Y'all are revving the engine before putting gas in the tank. There's a reason that the provisional year exists and it's not just for adding 22 scholarships. It's about upgrading logistics, increasing budgets and numbers of personnel, adjusting for the adjusted Title IX ratios and, when necessary, adding sports. All of this has to be meticulously documented and then verified by the NCAA. The provisional year is the reason that FAMU only nearly bankrupted the school instead of completely bankrupting it when trying to make the FBS jump in '04.

Incidentally, on the point about adding sports, FCS only requires schools to offer 14 varsity sports but FBS requires 16. At the moment, JMU (18 sports) and Jacksonville State (17 sports) already meet that requirement but --<checks SHSU athletics website>-- Sam Houston (15 sports) does not. Sam needs to add a rifle team or something.

[TexasTerror]

Y'all are revving the engine before putting gas in the tank. There's a reason that the provisional year exists and it's not just for adding 22 scholarships. It's about upgrading logistics, increasing budgets and numbers of personnel, adjusting for the adjusted Title IX ratios and, when necessary, adding sports. All of this has to be meticulously documented and then verified by the NCAA. The provisional year is the reason that FAMU only nearly bankrupted the school instead of completely bankrupting it when trying to make the FBS jump in '04.

Incidentally, on the point about adding sports, FCS only requires schools to offer 14 varsity sports but FBS requires 16. At the moment, JMU (18 sports) and Jacksonville State (17 sports) already meet that requirement but --<checks SHSU athletics website>-- Sam Houston (15 sports) does not. Sam needs to add a rifle team or something.

Libertine, as a longtime poster - I figure you would know how fans routinely get hung up on the sport sponsorship situation. Sam Houston has 17 sports. I am going to presume that you failed to count track & field twice (indoor and outdoor) for both men's and women's sports. Not all schools list the sport(s) similarly on their website but traditionally if schools have track and field, they have both indoor and outdoor components.

[TexasTerror]

It will be interesting to see what happens.

The Sun Belt committing to JMU 8 conference games - how might that effect the 8 team chosen? Does JMU count as an FBS or FCS win for them? Doesn't only one FCS win count towards their 6 Div 1 wins to be bowl qualified? Most will already have an FCS game scheduled.

How easy will it be for JMU, SHSU and JSU to at least schedule 11 games? I don't see CAA teams stepping to fill JMU's schedule. With 11 teams remaining - no problem getting everyone 8 conference games, and most already have their 3 OOC games scheduled. It might also be hard to schedule G5 team, particularly at JMU. Of course UMass, UConn and Liberty may not have filled their dance cards - but they'd likely be looking for home games, and will playing and beating JMU qualify as a bowl qualifying win? Playing JMU might be a no-benefit proposition - lose and negatively effect bowl eligibility or win and gain virtually nothing.

Your third paragraph nails it.

James Madison cannot leave the Colonial until all sports including football have a home. Leaving the Colonial without football having a home will make it a challenge to get to 11 football games and as you said, the Colonial schools won't feel any obligation to help the Dukes fill their schedule.

I believe this is why James Madison is actively pushing to a) play in the Sun Belt next year and b) get a transitional year removed so that they will count as a FBS counter and not a FCS game.

Their AD felt confident enough and if Sam Houston & Jacksonville State are in a similar place, the trio (JMU/SHSU/JAX) can use each other to add on top of the conference games in a mechanism that gets them all five FBS home games and to fuller schedules (see my post above about a 'round robin' between the schools). In Sam Houston's case, if the schools heading to the American from Texas have not left, would love if C-USA did the Kats a favor and put at least two of the three (Rice, UNT and UTSA) in Bowers Stadium to help with attendance, excitement surrounding FBS as those would be attractive games.

[KPSUL]

Y'all are revving the engine before putting gas in the tank. There's a reason that the provisional year exists and it's not just for adding 22 scholarships. It's about upgrading logistics, increasing budgets and numbers of personnel, adjusting for the adjusted Title IX ratios and, when necessary, adding sports. All of this has to be meticulously documented and then verified by the NCAA. The provisional year is the reason that FAMU only nearly bankrupted the school instead of completely bankrupting it when trying to make the FBS jump in '04.

Incidentally, on the point about adding sports, FCS only requires schools to offer 14 varsity sports but FBS requires 16. At the moment, JMU (18 sports) and Jacksonville State (17 sports) already meet that requirement but --<checks SHSU athletics website>-- Sam Houston (15 sports) does not. Sam needs to add a rifle team or something.

Women's Beach Volleyball.

[TexasTerror]

Women's Beach Volleyball.

Sam Houston is apparently on track to add women's beach volleyball (pending who you ask) but yet again, Sam Houston is over the threshold with 17 total sports offerings. Of the sports, 16 presently are in the WAC with a 17th (bowling) competing in the Southland Bowling League.

[Libertine]

Sam Houston has 17 sports. I am going to presume that you failed to count track & field twice (indoor and outdoor) for both men's and women's sports. Not all schools list the sport(s) similarly on their website but traditionally if schools have track and field, they have both indoor and outdoor components.

My bad. You're right, that's what I did. I went down the list and counted the sports headings without separating T&F.

My larger point stands though. Making the jump to FBS is a lot of behind the scenes work that fans will never see but which typically takes about a year or so to get done.

[JMUflyer]

JMU will not be CAA affiliated in any way next year ('22). We will be done with that conference. They will be full Sunbelt, and any games played will count as FBS games. I highly doubt we play any CAA teams for a while. We only need 1 more home game with an FBS team to have '22 count as our transition year. 2023 we will be bowl elidgeable according to Sunbelt sources. AD J Bourne said he is having trouble getting teams to commit to play us, only for a fear of loosing and ruining thier bowl elidgeabilty with a FBS team loss. The further we go in playoffs I think the harder it will be to find opponents for 2022.

[TexasTerror]

JMU will not be CAA affiliated in any way next year ('22). We will be done with that conference. They will be full Sunbelt, and any games played will count as FBS games. I highly doubt we play any CAA teams for a while. We only need 1 more home game with an FBS team to have '22 count as our transition year. 2023 we will be bowl elidgeable according to Sunbelt sources. AD J Bourne said he is having trouble getting teams to commit to play us, only for a fear of loosing and ruining thier bowl elidgeabilty with a FBS team loss. The further we go in playoffs I think the harder it will be to find opponents for 2022.

Your post is aligned with the hopeful trajectory of James Madison that I have shared in the initial post and some of my subsequent responses.

Until some of the dominoes begin falling (which will probably be by mid-January), we have to assume James Madison is in the Colonial in '22 for all sports and playing a CAA schedule while being a FCS Independent.

[DirtyDukes]

It will be interesting to see what happens.

The Sun Belt committing to JMU 8 conference games - how might that effect the 8 team chosen? Does JMU count as an FBS or FCS win for them? Doesn't only one FCS win count towards their 6 Div 1 wins to be bowl qualified? Most will already have an FCS game scheduled.

How easy will it be for JMU, SHSU and JSU to at least schedule 11 games? I don't see CAA teams stepping to fill JMU's schedule. With 11 teams remaining - no problem getting everyone 8 conference games, and most already have their 3 OOC games scheduled. It might also be hard to schedule G5 team, particularly at JMU. Of course UMass, UConn and Liberty may not have filled their dance cards - but they'd likely be looking for home games, and will playing and beating JMU qualify as a bowl qualifying win? Playing JMU might be a no-benefit proposition - lose and negatively effect bowl eligibility or win and gain virtually nothing.

NCAA/Our AD has already stated since we will have more than the FCS allowed schollies we will count as an FBS win. Thus why we've been able to field a mostly FBS schedule.

[DirtyDukes]

Your post is aligned with the hopeful trajectory of James Madison that I have shared in the initial post and some of my subsequent responses.

Until some of the dominoes begin falling (which will probably be by mid-January), we have to assume James Madison is in the Colonial in '22 for all sports and playing a CAA schedule while being a FCS Independent.

No man we've already got an all SBC schedule - we just need one more FBS home game to compete in the division:

https://twitter.com/Shane_DNRSports/status/1469358069725507604?s=20

Here's poster bcp's best guess:

So Mettlen says Weber and NS are the only fcs games...


And we must have 5 home FBS...this is getting into focus (home / away and order for SBC games are just placeholders)


- Weber
- NS
- Unknown FBS (cusa seems likely, or another call up)
- App
- Ga St
- @ Coastal
- @Marshall
- @ GaSo
- SBC W team
- @ SBC W team
- @ Louisville
- ODU

[Mocs123]

Another difference I see is JMU already has a Sun Belt budget, while JSU and SHSU do not. I think all 3 will be fine in their new conference, but JMU was the only one that was really ready to make the move - they are probably the school in the FCS that most ready to make the move and that includes NDSU.

[DirtyDukes]

Another difference I see is JMU already has a C-USA budget, while JSU and SHSU do not. I think all 3 will be fine in their new conference, but JMU was the only one that was really ready to make the move - they are probably the school in the FCS that most ready to make the move and that includes NDSU.

*SBC budget ;)

[Mocs123]

*SBC budget ;)

Correct, the conferences have flip-flopped in the past couple of years.

[TexasTerror]

Another difference I see is JMU already has a Sun Belt budget, while JSU and SHSU do not. I think all 3 will be fine in their new conference, but JMU was the only one that was really ready to make the move - they are probably the school in the FCS that most ready to make the move and that includes NDSU.

Hope you are keeping up with the benjamins...

Schools moving from FCS to FBS should be able to add $4-5M to their budget at minimum with two FBS game guarantee checks, enhanced revenues from media, royalties, NCAA disbursement and conference distribution.

Sam Houston has a $21M budget and will reach $25-26M thanks to the new revenues. Sam Houston increased its athletic fee minimally vs. what the students voted down, which actually adds another $1.5-2M to the kitty so we are probably in the $27-28M range right now. That's definitely more than ULM and comparable to some of the lower Sun Belt schools. The question becomes how much more can Sam add to the count based on some of the other things that they are doing on the development/revenue generation side? Remains to be seen.

[TexasTerror]

No man we've already got an all SBC schedule - we just need one more FBS home game to compete in the division:

https://twitter.com/Shane_DNRSports/status/1469358069725507604?s=20

Here's poster bcp's best guess:

So Mettlen says Weber and NS are the only fcs games...


And we must have 5 home FBS...this is getting into focus (home / away and order for SBC games are just placeholders)


- Weber
- NS
- Unknown FBS (cusa seems likely, or another call up)
- App
- Ga St
- @ Coastal
- @Marshall
- @ GaSo
- SBC W team
- @ SBC W team
- @ Louisville
- ODU

You just regurgitated what I said, what I quoted in the initial post as saying the Sun Belt has given you eight games, looking for a fifth FBS home game, etc.

Only difference is that I have also said that we should not expect the confirmation, dominoes to fall until mid January (as I am directly referencing the NCAA constitutional conference and some of the things that will be hashed out there).

And your post just doubled down on why I am saying that Sam Houston and Jacksonville State should work with James Madison because if they are considered in the second year of transition (all three of them), we can all become each other's fifth FBS game (CUSA could create a conference schedule with Sam & Jax St not playing so they can play as a OOC game in '22).

Thanks for proving me right, showing an example of what I have suggested. Much appreciated, DirtyDukes!

[Mocs123]

Hope you are keeping up with the benjamins...

Schools moving from FCS to FBS should be able to add $4-5M to their budget at minimum with two FBS game guarantee checks, enhanced revenues from media, royalties, NCAA disbursement and conference distribution.

Sam Houston has a $21M budget and will reach $25-26M thanks to the new revenues. Sam Houston increased its athletic fee minimally vs. what the students voted down, which actually adds another $1.5-2M to the kitty so we are probably in the $27-28M range right now. That's definitely more than ULM and comparable to some of the lower Sun Belt schools. The question becomes how much more can Sam add to the count based on some of the other things that they are doing on the development/revenue generation side? Remains to be seen.

$21M is a good FCS budget and you're right that you are in the lower sunbelt ballpark in the upper 20's, but JMU's budget was $52M the last time I looked and that is unreal for the FCS level and competes with some of the top tier G5 teams already. I think their athletic fee is $2K per student, which is a lot. Our athletic fee is less than $100 of course we only have an $18M budget.

[JMUflyer]

Hope you are keeping up with the benjamins...

Schools moving from FCS to FBS should be able to add $4-5M to their budget at minimum with two FBS game guarantee checks, enhanced revenues from media, royalties, NCAA disbursement and conference distribution.

Sam Houston has a $21M budget and will reach $25-26M thanks to the new revenues. Sam Houston increased its athletic fee minimally vs. what the students voted down, which actually adds another $1.5-2M to the kitty so we are probably in the $27-28M range right now. That's definitely more than ULM and comparable to some of the lower Sun Belt schools. The question becomes how much more can Sam add to the count based on some of the other things that they are doing on the development/revenue generation side? Remains to be seen.

Sam has a lot of facility upgrades that need to be done to be FBS ready. Know that first hand

[TexasTerror]

Sam has a lot of facility upgrades that need to be done to be FBS ready. Know that first hand

Football, soccer & track/field.

No questions there. Baseball, softball are on par with what we're dealing with. Basketball could be improved (i.e. practice gym for hoops/volleyball) but it's also not a shortcoming.

It's all about moving track & field to a new venue, possibly a combo soccer/track & field venue and re-doing football.

[dgtw]

Jax State fan here.

I would love to be able to join in 2022. Right now, we have an OOC game at Murray State (they come here in 2025) and a money game at Tulsa.

So if we were to join CUSA and played the normal eight games and set up a round robin with Sammy and Jimmy, we’d be all set, assuming the NCAA lets the three of us count as a fifth FBS game.

We went to Texas this year for the AQ7 so maybe they’d be willing to come here and we go to JMU and JMU go to Texas.

Sammy and Jimmy both have more OOC FCS games than they need under this plan so they have a few games to dump. Our only issue is in 2023 when we are scheduled to host Kennesaw and visit Chattanooga. The UTC game may have to go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Daytripper]

Hope you are keeping up with the benjamins...

Schools moving from FCS to FBS should be able to add $4-5M to their budget at minimum with two FBS game guarantee checks, enhanced revenues from media, royalties, NCAA disbursement and conference distribution.

Sam Houston has a $21M budget and will reach $25-26M thanks to the new revenues. Sam Houston increased its athletic fee minimally vs. what the students voted down, which actually adds another $1.5-2M to the kitty so we are probably in the $27-28M range right now. That's definitely more than ULM and comparable to some of the lower Sun Belt schools. The question becomes how much more can Sam add to the count based on some of the other things that they are doing on the development/revenue generation side? Remains to be seen.

I have to think we have an ace in the hole with former Houston Texans president Jamey Rootes at the university now. I know officially he is just an adjunct professor, but his business connections in the Houston area should come into play in fundraising and revenue streams. My hope is he replaces Bobby Williams.

[TexasTerror]

Here are my proposed schedules for the three teams as they navigate what a 'year early' could look like.

James Madison 2022 Schedule
Home: FCS (Weber St), FBS (Jacksonville St), 4 Sun Belt teams
Road: FBS (Sam Houston), Guarantee (Louisville), 4 Sun Belt teams
Note: Need to 'buy out' or work out of Weber or Norfolk State games; suggesting Norfolk State (see below)

Sam Houston 2022 Schedule
Home: FCS (Northern Arizona), FBS (James Madison), 4 CUSA teams
Road: FBS (Jacksonville St), Guarantee (Texas A&M), 4 CUSA teams
Note: This sadly ends the BOTPW without a "finale"

Jacksonville State 2022 Schedule
Home: FBS (Sam Houston), FCS (TBA), 4 CUSA teams
Road: FBS (James Madison), Guarantee (Tulsa), 4 CUSA teams
Note: Has Murray State on road on 9/10; perhaps Jax St can 'broker' a deal for Norfolk State to travel to Murray State (same dates)

[Cocky]

Heard rumor our football budget will go to 16 million. Sound like a huge jump to me, but we will see.

[JSUSoutherner]

Heard rumor our football budget will go to 16 million. Sound like a huge jump to me, but we will see.
What are we at now? $6-7m just for football?


Edit: just checked. We are right around $7m a year right now.