Evaluation of the SWAC's ambitious playoff-bowl vision in football

[bonarae]

Is it too early to tell still? xchinscratchx

https://hbcusports.com/2021/11/30/thats-what-we-deserve-the-swacs-ambitious-playoff-bowl-vision-is-blossoming-just-as-planned/

SEC of the FCS? Give us a break; is the MVFC more deserving of that title, as I do believe...

Meanwhile, When will the Ivies grow up in the FCS level? That's for another forum topic though. xpeacex

[ASU33]

Is it too early to tell still? xchinscratchx

https://hbcusports.com/2021/11/30/thats-what-we-deserve-the-swacs-ambitious-playoff-bowl-vision-is-blossoming-just-as-planned/

SEC of the FCS? Give us a break; is the MVFC more deserving of that title, as I do believe...

Meanwhile, When will the Ivies grow up in the FCS level? That's for another forum topic though. xpeacex

When SWAC fans say the SEC of FCS it's referring to the SWACs ability to draw crowds and attention. No other conference in FCS can draw the types of crowds or attention that the SWAC does. As far as on the field nobody can argue against the MVFC.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

When SWAC fans say the SEC of FCS it's referring to the SWACs ability to draw crowds and attention. No other conference in FCS can draw the types of crowds or attention that the SWAC does. As far as on the field nobody can argue against the MVFC.


HBCU fans are one loyal fanbase!

[ASU33]

HBCU fans are one loyal fanbase!

That's true. We admire the MVFC and Big Sky too down in these parts. The level of ball played in those conferences is stellar. Down here we're trying to get to that level. You match that level of play with our fan bases and it's truly SEC lite.

[ST_Lawson]

When SWAC fans say the SEC of FCS it's referring to the SWACs ability to draw crowds and attention. No other conference in FCS can draw the types of crowds or attention that the SWAC does. As far as on the field nobody can argue against the MVFC.

I fully agree. If we could draw what most HBCU's bring in for attendance on even a "regular" game, I'd be ecstatic (and that's not even considering what many of them draw for the big "classics" games or other big events).

[caribbeanhen]

That's true. We admire the MVFC and Big Sky too down in these parts. The level of ball played in those conferences is stellar. Down here we're trying to get to that level. You match that level of play with our fan bases and it's truly SEC lite.

I would swim the mighty Mississippi to see a game if the SWAC vs Ivy challenge ever got started up

[Panther88]

I would swim the mighty Mississippi to see a game if the SWAC vs Ivy challenge ever got started up

But does such a match make sense and cents from a regional perspective? I think the MEAC kinda' sorta' touched on that w a recent Howard vs Harvard debacle.

No slight to the Ivys but I have absolutely zero interest in any of their schools. SHSU, SFA, Lamar, et al regionals, yes.

[DFW HOYA]

I would swim the mighty Mississippi to see a game if the SWAC vs Ivy challenge ever got started up

One could only imagine the response at Jackson State when this is the marching band that plays before the Sonic Boom of the South: (I would have posted a clip from Columbia but their band went defunct.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnnT83DIzPE

[walliver]

It is a nice PR piece, but the SWAC is not really like the NFL-Southeastern. They have great attendance and atmosphere, but the football product is not dominant.

Instead or pursuing a Celebration Bowl plus FCS at-large, they should probably go for a second bowl game. I doubt HBCU fans would get any more excited about a first round FCS playoff game than other fans, and since the two championship game teams as well as Grambling and Southern won't participate, it is unlikely a SWAC team will ever get a seed, so home games would be rare.

[Panther88]

It is a nice PR piece, but the SWAC is not really like the NFL-Southeastern. They have great attendance and atmosphere, but the football product from top to bottom is not dominant yet.

Instead or pursuing a Celebration Bowl plus FCS at-large, they should probably go for a second bowl game. I doubt HBCU fans would get any more excited about a first round FCS playoff game than other fans, and since the two championship game teams as well as Grambling and Southern (and Alabama St) won't participate, it is unlikely a SWAC team will ever get a seed, so home games would be rare.

FYP.

Won't comment on your other opinion as that's your take and since you're not a stakeholder or constituent, it doesn't matter anyway.

[Preferred Walk-On]

That's true. We admire the MVFC and Big Sky too down in these parts. The level of ball played in those conferences is stellar. Down here we're trying to get to that level. You match that level of play with our fan bases and it's truly SEC lite.

As an outside observer, I often wonder why with that type of support (which is amazing and quite commendable), the football programs are often not at a higher level of play or competitiveness compared to other FCS programs or conferences. That was shown just this past weekend in the Florida A&M @ Southeastern Louisiana matchup, despite the fact that Florida A&M had hung with an FBS and only lost to Jackson State by 1 pt (granted, both games were much earlier in the season, but...). Is there a specific reason or set of reasons for this apparent discrepancy in support vs. ability to compete with other FCS conferences?

[caribbeanhen]

But does such a match make sense and cents from a regional perspective? I think the MEAC kinda' sorta' touched on that w a recent Howard vs Harvard debacle.

No slight to the Ivys but I have absolutely zero interest in any of their schools. SHSU, SFA, Lamar, et al regionals, yes.

I was thinking SWAC fans would show up regardless but you know these waters much better than I.

Both conferences seem similar in that neither show an interest in changing

It might not be broke but there could be some good that came out of one of these moated Conferences reaching out to the other

[WestCoastAggie]

That's true. We admire the MVFC and Big Sky too down in these parts. The level of ball played in those conferences is stellar. Down here we're trying to get to that level. You match that level of play with our fan bases and it's truly SEC lite.

Umm... I don't think very few HBCU Football Fans admire the MVFC and Big Sky. If anything, many of us look down upon them, oddly enough.

[caribbeanhen]

Umm... I don't think very few HBCU Football Fans admire the MVFC and Big Sky. If anything, many of us look down upon them, oddly enough.

I remember when the CAA was looked down upon

[WestCoastAggie]

I remember when the CAA was looked down upon

https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ba_dum_tss_pirates_band_of_misfits.gif

🤣

[JacksFan40]

Umm... I don't think very few HBCU Football Fans admire the MVFC and Big Sky. If anything, many of us look down upon them, oddly enough.
That’s like saying the Sun Belt looks down upon the SEC.

[caribbeanhen]

https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ba_dum_tss_pirates_band_of_misfits.gif

藍

lol

that gif or meme or whatever it is is funny

[CHIP72]

As an outside observer, I often wonder why with that type of support (which is amazing and quite commendable), the football programs are often not at a higher level of play or competitiveness compared to other FCS programs or conferences. That was shown just this past weekend in the Florida A&M @ Southeastern Louisiana matchup, despite the fact that Florida A&M had hung with an FBS and only lost to Jackson State by 1 pt (granted, both games were much earlier in the season, but...). Is there a specific reason or set of reasons for this apparent discrepancy in support vs. ability to compete with other FCS conferences?

Ironically the answer to that question IS the SEC. Back in the day SWAC (and MEAC) schools got a lot of the talent that now plays in the SEC.

[Panther88]

Ironically the answer to that question IS the SEC. Back in the day SWAC (and MEAC) schools got a lot of the talent that now plays in the SEC.

There is too much history here.

But, spot on. Same geographical footprint.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Ironically the answer to that question IS the SEC. Back in the day SWAC (and MEAC) schools got a lot of the talent that now plays in the SEC.


There is too much history here.

But, spot on. Same geographical footprint.

I was pretty sure that would be the first argument, so how about getting a lot of the talent that plays FCS (don't try to be 'Bama, try to be Southeast Louisiana?).

Not saying there isn't a problem with recruiting some talent, but the perception is that the top SWAC teams would not be competitive for the Southland, OVC, Big South, or SoCon conference titles.

So, is there another reason the SWAC does not get their share of the FCS talent that does not go to Alabama, despite the SEC-esque support?

[WestCoastAggie]

I was pretty sure that would be the first argument, so how about getting a lot of the talent that plays FCS (don't try to be 'Bama, try to be Southeast Louisiana?).

Not saying there isn't a problem with recruiting some talent, but the perception is that the top SWAC teams would not be competitive for the Southland, OVC, Big South, or SoCon conference titles.

So, is there another reason the SWAC does not get their share of the FCS talent that does not go to Alabama, despite the SEC-esque support?

I can't speak to the SWAC directly but in terms of the MEAC and MEAC-adjacent programs... Money and facilities. Additionally, HBCUs only enroll about 10% of all African-American/Black students.

[FUBeAR]

FWIW…FUBeAR looked at MEAC, SWAC, & FCS HBCU 2021 records vs. OOC FCS for MEAC & SWAC Teams and vs. all FCS for non-MEAC & non-SWAC FCS HBCU’s. Barring any inadvertent tabulations errors (which are highly possible), here are the results…

MEAC + SWAC - 10-18 (.357)
MEAC - 6-12 (.333)
SWAC - 4-6 (.400)
Other FCS HBCU - 13-15 (.464)
All FCS HBCU - 23-33 (.411)

These are the (hopefully accurate) results. Interpret/Discuss (if desired) the data as you like.

[unknown3]

One could argue that their model works better than the FCS playoff model at this point. Seems every decent playoff team looks to bail to FBS at first opportunity. No "real" playoff system but more exposure, money and a bowl game. Sounds familiar.

[Hammerhead]

Ironically the answer to that question IS the SEC. Back in the day SWAC (and MEAC) schools got a lot of the talent that now plays in the SEC.

Back in the day (1965), NDSU beat Grambling to win it's first national championship in the College Division when the NCAA had a University and College division.

[JacksFan40]

One could argue that their model works better than the FCS playoff model at this point. Seems every decent playoff team looks to bail to FBS at first opportunity. No "real" playoff system but more exposure, money and a bowl game. Sounds familiar.
We’ve already seen NC A&T and Hampton bail for the Big South, so that’s not exactly accurate.

[ASU33]

Umm... I don't think very few HBCU Football Fans admire the MVFC and Big Sky. If anything, many of us look down upon them, oddly enough.

Down in these parts. We talk MVFC and Big Sky. Hell I'd love to have a home and home with one of those teams. No doubt we have a faction of fans that are anti anything not HBCU.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Down in these parts. We talk MVFC and Big Sky. Hell I'd love to have a home and home with one of those teams. No doubt we have a faction of fans that are anti anything not HBCU.


In 2 years NDSU is playing a game down at US Bank in Minneapolis. The opponent will bring hardly any fans to this one (Eastern Washington). Do you think a HBCU team would draw pretty well in Minneapolis if one came up here for a game?


NDSU had 35K in Target Field in '19.

[WestCoastAggie]

We’ve already seen NC A&T and Hampton bail for the Big South, so that’s not exactly accurate.

Our bailing from the MEAC didn't have much - if any - to do with the playoffs.

[WestCoastAggie]

One could argue that their model works better than the FCS playoff model at this point. Seems every decent playoff team looks to bail to FBS at first opportunity. No "real" playoff system but more exposure, money and a bowl game. Sounds familiar.

Hmm... Maybe. But when you look at schools like Miss. Valley and UA Pine Bluff, it perhaps doesn't seem this is correct. In fact, most of the SWAC - and MEAC - have budgets south of $10 million as of 2019/2020.

[ASU33]

In 2 years NDSU is playing a game down at US Bank in Minneapolis. The opponent will bring hardly any fans to this one (Eastern Washington). Do you think a HBCU team would draw pretty well in Minneapolis if one came up here for a game?


NDSU had 35K in Target Field in '19.

Not only yes but hell yes! Minneapolis has a nice HBCU contingency up there.

[ASU33]

Our bailing from the MEAC didn't have much - if any - to do with the playoffs.

A&T people have said this a million times and people still try to use the playoff argument as the reason you guys left.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Not only yes but hell yes! Minneapolis has a nice HBCU contingency up there.


Which HBCU team would bring out the most fans?

Jackson State
Grambling
FAMU
Hampton
Southern

Other?

- - - Updated - - -


A&T people have said this a million times and people still try to use the playoff argument as the reason you guys left.


What was it? I'm assuming something like travel costs.

[WestCoastAggie]

Which HBCU team would bring out the most fans?

Jackson State
Grambling
FAMU
Hampton
Southern

Other?

- - - Updated - - -

Grambling, Jackson State, Southern



What was it? I'm assuming something like travel costs.

We left because of travel costs and complaints that students were spending too much time away from campus and their classes. For example, for the Big South, all of their championship tournaments are in North Carolina.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

- - - Updated - - -

Grambling, Jackson State, Southern




We left because of travel costs and complaints that students were spending too much time away from campus and their classes. For example, for the Big South, all of their championship tournaments are in North Carolina.


Close bus trips helps keep costs down.

A&T is coming next year to play the Bison. IIRC, visiting teams get something like 300-500 tickets. Will A&T fill that?

A&T has been pretty good the last few years, looking forward to seeing how they stack up with the Bison.

[WestCoastAggie]

Close bus trips helps keep costs down.

A&T is coming next year to play the Bison. IIRC, visiting teams get something like 300-500 tickets. Will A&T fill that?

There will be more Aggies in Fargo than expected.


A&T has been pretty good the last few years, looking forward to seeing how they stack up with the Bison.

Coach Washington better be preparing NOW for this game. Otherwise, it won't be pretty.

[nevadagriz]

So would Bison fans rather have fewer opposing fans at a game that is competitive, or a packed house with tons of opposing fans and a game that is not competitive?
EWU will be good game. Bison would be a 21pt favorite against any HBCU school. I would love to have both the swac and Ivy play in the playoffs, however I respect their reasoning for not doing so.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

So would Bison fans rather have fewer opposing fans at a game that is competitive, or a packed house with tons of opposing fans and a game that is not competitive?
EWU will be good game. Bison would be a 21pt favorite against any HBCU school. I would love to have both the swac and Ivy play in the playoffs, however I respect their reasoning for not doing so.


I would prefer a HBCU team over EWU any day of the week. EWU will bring hardly any fans to this game. My hometown just played in the Prep Bowl here and we brought more fans than EWU will. Plus EWU will be a body bag IMO. EWU will not be a good game.

[WileECoyote06]

In 2 years NDSU is playing a game down at US Bank in Minneapolis. The opponent will bring hardly any fans to this one (Eastern Washington). Do you think a HBCU team would draw pretty well in Minneapolis if one came up here for a game?


NDSU had 35K in Target Field in '19.

Yes Jackson, Southern and FAMU would. Grambling might. You're taking a risk with any other fanbase.

The other question is why should an HBCU come up there for a 'classic' game. Those same aforementioned HBCUs, (plus SCSU, A&T, Howard, and Tenn. State) could easily host the Bison in a southern stadium.

Are Bison making a return trip to Greensboro? I'd attend that game just to see 'em in person.

[WileECoyote06]

Down in these parts. We talk MVFC and Big Sky. Hell I'd love to have a home and home with one of those teams. No doubt we have a faction of fans that are anti anything not HBCU.

That's surprising. They don't get any traction in my area. lol. . . If there is any FCS discussion, it's MEAC, Big South and SoCon. Poor Elon. . .

[ASU33]

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Grambling, Jackson State, Southern




We left because of travel costs and complaints that students were spending too much time away from campus and their classes. For example, for the Big South, all of their championship tournaments are in North Carolina.


Grambling doesn't travel anywhere. For as much tradition as that program has they don't travel the best. Grambling perhaps would get a lot of local interest due to their name.

[caribbeanhen]

Grambling doesn't travel anywhere. For as much tradition as that program has they don't travel the best. Grambling perhaps would get a lot of local interest due to their name.

Back in 1973 Grambling beat Delaware in the last Boardwalk Bowl (playoff game) 17 to 8

The two coaches would go on to become 300 game winners

Tubby Raymond literally thanked Eddie Robinson for keeping it respectful as Grambling was the much better team

class dismissed

[BNATION]

FYP.

Won't comment on your other opinion as that's your take and since you're not a stakeholder or constituent, it doesn't matter anyway.

If the SWAC and MEAC were playing big time football NC A&T, one the best HBCU programs would have been more competitive in the Big South which may be the 5th best FCS conference..... IMO

[ASU33]

If the SWAC and MEAC were playing big time football NC A&T, one the best HBCU programs would have been more competitive in the Big South which may be the 5th best FCS conference..... IMO

2019 isn't 2021. A&T had a lot to happen in between the 2019 season and this season. A&T proved themselves on the field during their run.

[Panther88]

If the SWAC and MEAC were playing big time football NC A&T, one the best HBCU programs would have been more competitive in the Big South which may be the 5th best FCS conference..... IMO

That wasn't the same team all were accustomed to witnessing. They did drop off slightly. FCS ball isn't like FBS ball which reloads ala THE Ohio St, OU, Alabama, Clemson, et al true powerhouses.

[WestCoastAggie]

Yes Jackson, Southern and FAMU would. Grambling might. You're taking a risk with any other fanbase.

The other question is why should an HBCU come up there for a 'classic' game. Those same aforementioned HBCUs, (plus SCSU, A&T, Howard, and Tenn. State) could easily host the Bison in a southern stadium.

Are Bison making a return trip to Greensboro? I'd attend that game just to see 'em in person.

We just took the 6-figure payday instead of scheduling a Home & Home. The last time we hosted a top-5 team was in 2014 when we hosted #5 Coastal Carolina. We should've won that one. We also had north of 15,000 in the stadium.

- - - Updated - - -

😞
2019 isn't 2021. A&T had a lot to happen in between the 2019 season and this season. A&T proved themselves on the field during their run.

[putter]

That's true. We admire the MVFC and Big Sky too down in these parts. The level of ball played in those conferences is stellar. Down here we're trying to get to that level. You match that level of play with our fan bases and it's truly SEC lite.

ASU, I agree. It would be something to see all the schools grow their programs. I remember when Mississippi Valley came up, it was great visiting with those fans and would be fun taking a trip down south. I remember our AD saying that, in addition to the money, part of the guarantee was $500 worth of protein drink. Gives a little insight to program finances.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

There will be more Aggies in Fargo than expected.



Coach Washington better be preparing NOW for this game. Otherwise, it won't be pretty.



I don't follow A&T much. Do they have a lot of returning starters coming back?