Patriot League Attendance 2021

[DFW HOYA]

Holy Cross takes the title for a second straight season as the numbers fall elsewhere. Surprising to see how in-conference attendance has really atrophied.

2021 PL attendance (net of HC playoff game):
Holy Cross 7,754 (down from 8,413 in 2019)
Lehigh 5,639 (down from 6,708 in 2019)
Lafayette: 2,860 (down from 4,664 in 2019)
Fordham: 2,642 (down from 3,408 in 2019)
Bucknell: 2,414 (down from 2,750 in 2019)
Georgetown: 2,265 (up from 1,961 in 2019)
Colgate: 2,042 (down from 3,551 in 2019)


League games only:
Holy Cross 6,846
Lehigh 6,385
Lafayette: 2,650
Fordham: 2,341
Georgetown: 2,183
Colgate: 1,833
Bucknell: 1,110

[Pard4Life]

Wow. Two things:

1) Is this the first time ever that Lafayette or Lehigh did not lead the PL in attendance?
2) When did the NCAA change the policy on how attendance is reported? It used to be based on tickets sold and distributed (including freebies), and now I think it is based on scanned tickets.

[Pards Rule]

Wow. Two things:

1) Is this the first time ever that Lafayette or Lehigh did not lead the PL in attendance?
2) When did the NCAA change the policy on how attendance is reported? It used to be based on tickets sold and distributed (including freebies), and now I think it is based on scanned tickets.

Finally! Scanned tickets ONLY!

[DFW HOYA]

A school can opt for either actual (scanned attendance) versus announced tickets (actual attendance plus any tickets paid but unused) but it must be consistent throughout the year. The two figures are virtually identical with the largest schools, while schools on the margin of FBS go the announced route and buy the difference to maintain minimum attendance standards. It's likely that scanned tickets is the option in the PL given the lack of season tickets.

Lafayette at Lehigh (12,962) was the largest attendance of the season. The smallest was the same day: Holy Cross at Bucknell, with just 864 in attendance.

[ngineer]

Holy Cross takes the title for a second straight season as the numbers fall elsewhere. Surprising to see how in-conference attendance has really atrophied.

2021 PL attendance (net of HC playoff game):
Holy Cross 7,754 (down from 8,413 in 2019)
Lehigh 5,639 (down from 6,708 in 2019)
Lafayette: 2,860 (down from 4,664 in 2019)
Fordham: 2,642 (down from 3,408 in 2019)
Bucknell: 2,414 (down from 2,750 in 2019)
Georgetown: 2,265 (up from 1,961 in 2019)
Colgate: 2,042 (down from 3,551 in 2019)


League games only:
Holy Cross 6,846
Lehigh 6,385
Lafayette: 2,650
Fordham: 2,341
Georgetown: 2,183
Colgate: 1,833
Bucknell: 1,110

I am sure those numbers are tickets sold, not actual attendance. I attended all Lehigh games, as well as most away games. I am reasonably sure the complete attendance at both Colgate and Bucknell was less than 1,000. Also, Lehigh's average is as high as it is due to the Rivalry game being at Goodman in the 'odd' year, otherwise we'd be around 3,500.

[DFW HOYA]

Just for fun, a comparison to a quarter century ago (1995).

Lehigh: 10,350
Bucknell: 7,067
Holy Cross: 6,308
Lafayette: 5,958
Fordham: 2,369
Colgate: 1,805
Georgetown (MAAC): 1,549

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Just for fun, a comparison to a quarter century ago (1995).

Lehigh: 10,350
Bucknell: 7,067
Holy Cross: 6,308
Lafayette: 5,958
Fordham: 2,369
Colgate: 1,805
Georgetown (MAAC): 1,549

The Rich Lemon era of Bison football! They were good! And people came out to support them!

[NY Crusader 2010]

It's beyond sad that Bucknell gets no support for football, especially given the love for the sport in Central/Western PA. Happy Valley is right down the road.

How do you rationalize 800 fans at the final home game? You figure its Senior Day => 25 seniors X 5 family members/friends/girlfriends each => that's 125 right there. The other 75 players X 2 friends or family members each and you're up to 300. So between fellow Bison student-athletes, frats, other students, season ticket holders, local fans, faculty, media and Holy Cross supporters they couldn't get another 600 people there? That's bananas.

[ngineer]

It's beyond sad that Bucknell gets no support for football, especially given the love for the sport in Central/Western PA. Happy Valley is right down the road.

How do you rationalize 800 fans at the final home game? You figure its Senior Day => 25 seniors X 5 family members/friends/girlfriends each => that's 125 right there. The other 75 players X 2 friends or family members each and you're up to 300. So between fellow Bison student-athletes, frats, other students, season ticket holders, local fans, faculty, media and Holy Cross supporters they couldn't get another 600 people there? That's bananas.

Agreed. My daughter graduated from Bucknell 20 years ago. Even then, there was little support. When I went out to see the Lehigh v. Bucknell game, she'd sit with me on the visitors side and cheer for Lehigh! She always loved Lehigh,having gone to all the games with me since she was three; but, wanted to "get away a bit". She told me, then, that no one went to the games as the general feeling was there 'other things to do". Indeed, we'd always have more people on our side of the stadium every time we've gone out there. It's a pretty campus, nice stadium, people are friendly...but no one seems enthused about football.....it goes with the cultural change on a lot of campuses. I saw an MAC game on TV the other night and the 20K plus stadium probably had 7,500 people in it. Might have been Ball St. Regardless, it was telling. I think the whole image of D-I college football is being tarnished by what is occurring at the "power" level. People are seeing and reading about all these "payment" issues and no longer see "student athletes" but mercenaries.

[Pard4Life]

It's beyond sad that Bucknell gets no support for football, especially given the love for the sport in Central/Western PA. Happy Valley is right down the road.

How do you rationalize 800 fans at the final home game? You figure its Senior Day => 25 seniors X 5 family members/friends/girlfriends each => that's 125 right there. The other 75 players X 2 friends or family members each and you're up to 300. So between fellow Bison student-athletes, frats, other students, season ticket holders, local fans, faculty, media and Holy Cross supporters they couldn't get another 600 people there? That's bananas.

Probably counting the players on the field too.

[DFW HOYA]

. I saw an MAC game on TV the other night and the 20K plus stadium probably had 7,500 people in it. Might have been Ball St. Regardless, it was telling. I think the whole image of D-I college football is being tarnished by what is occurring at the "power" level. People are seeing and reading about all these "payment" issues and no longer see "student athletes" but mercenaries.

I would argue it's much the opposite--people see the marquee programs on TV and judge them against a Ball State or a Bucknell and judge them unworthy of four hours of their time.

Another factor? The decline of regional loyalty. There was a time when half the Ivy League student body and alumni bases were in New England, New York, and New Jersey. if you went to Lehigh or Lafayette, chances were good you lived within one or two hours of campus. Families would drive to games together.

Today, just 29% of Yale students are from the Ivy footprint. Lafayette gets students from 34 states, not just two or three. Families aren't driving to games if they can stay at home and watch Alabama-LSU on CBS. Tangentially to that, many fans have grown accustomed to amenities at pro arenas and stadiums that college facilities do not provide, from beer and wine to comfortable seating, WiFi, and video boards. Explain to a millenial why it's important that he/she sits on a wooden bench in the Yale Bowl to root for old Eli.

[Ivytalk]

Explain to a millenial why it's important that he/she sits on a wooden bench in the Yale Bowl to root for old Eli.

Job security.xcoffeex

[NY Crusader 2010]

MAC trades in-stadium attendance for having multiple games on national TV, by playing Tuesday or Wednesday night. The TV revenue and exposure are worth it to them over the would-be gate receipts from a Friday night or Saturday game.

[Sitting Bull]

MAC trades in-stadium attendance for having multiple games on national TV, by playing Tuesday or Wednesday night. The TV revenue and exposure are worth it to them over the would-be gate receipts from a Friday night or Saturday game.

It’s called prostitution. It’s the price the schools and their fans pay just so they can assume relevant stature to Ohio State and Michigan.

[Sader87]

I'm curious what kind of crowd we'll get at Fitton Saturday.....I'm guessing about 7500.

[Sitting Bull]

I'm curious what kind of crowd we'll get at Fitton Saturday.....I'm guessing about 7500.

Based on experience elsewhere, I think you would be lucky to see half that reported.

Remember, there are no season ticket holders or students numbers that you will see throughout the season automatically part of this count. Everybody has to go buy a ticket - for a game where your lead planning time is about 6 days.

Someone else may have some background but I believe it’s pretty common that host schools undercount the official attendance as they only have to send back to NCAA the official attendance revenues. Many I think will leave a share of sold tickets unofficial of which they can pocket the revenue.

The only time I saw W&M accurately report their playoff attendance was when we sold out the 2004 semifinal game - in that case, there’s no place to hide.

I would be surprised if any of these 1st round games top 4,000.

[DFW HOYA]

Saturday after Thanksgiving, students at home, low 30's, wind... I'll guess 2,702.

[ngineer]

I would argue it's much the opposite--people see the marquee programs on TV and judge them against a Ball State or a Bucknell and judge them unworthy of four hours of their time.

Another factor? The decline of regional loyalty. There was a time when half the Ivy League student body and alumni bases were in New England, New York, and New Jersey. if you went to Lehigh or Lafayette, chances were good you lived within one or two hours of campus. Families would drive to games together.

Today, just 29% of Yale students are from the Ivy footprint. Lafayette gets students from 34 states, not just two or three. Families aren't driving to games if they can stay at home and watch Alabama-LSU on CBS. Tangentially to that, many fans have grown accustomed to amenities at pro arenas and stadiums that college facilities do not provide, from beer and wine to comfortable seating, WiFi, and video boards. Explain to a millenial why it's important that he/she sits on a wooden bench in the Yale Bowl to root for old Eli.

All good points. I think there are a plethora of reasons as to why we are seeing the decline.

[ngineer]

I'm curious what kind of crowd we'll get at Fitton Saturday.....I'm guessing about 7500.

Saturday after Thanksgiving has always been a tough day to have a decent crowd. You might get a couple hundred more than usual since SHU isn't that far away for its local fans to make the drive, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if you had more than 5,000.

[caribbeanhen]

I would argue it's much the opposite--people see the marquee programs on TV and judge them against a Ball State or a Bucknell and judge them unworthy of four hours of their time.

Another factor? The decline of regional loyalty. There was a time when half the Ivy League student body and alumni bases were in New England, New York, and New Jersey. if you went to Lehigh or Lafayette, chances were good you lived within one or two hours of campus. Families would drive to games together.

Today, just 29% of Yale students are from the Ivy footprint. Lafayette gets students from 34 states, not just two or three. Families aren't driving to games if they can stay at home and watch Alabama-LSU on CBS. Tangentially to that, many fans have grown accustomed to amenities at pro arenas and stadiums that college facilities do not provide, from beer and wine to comfortable seating, WiFi, and video boards. Explain to a millenial why it's important that he/she sits on a wooden bench in the Yale Bowl to root for old Eli.

This post is money. In 2019 I made my first visit to the Yale bowl, tried to get my wife, son and daughter to go was not even a thought because attending college football games is just not something they have any desire to do. The Yale bowl from the outside looks like an ancient Roman water treatment facility and then you walk in and say Wow this place is huge and empty.

[ngineer]

This post is money. In 2019 I made my first visit to the Yale bowl, tried to get my wife, son and daughter to go was not even a thought because attending college football games is just not something they have any desire to do. The Yale bowl from the outside looks like an ancient Roman water treatment facility and then you walk in and say Wow this place is huge and empty.

Hah! So true. Lehigh returns to the Yale Bowl next year and I sort of dread it. The concessions and rest rooms are outside the stadium...it's like going to the outhouse! On top of that one is soooo far from the field. Good field glasses a must. Worst than Michigan's fabled "Big House" that I was in a few times in the mid '70's.

[caribbeanhen]

Hah! So true. Lehigh returns to the Yale Bowl next year and I sort of dread it. The concessions and rest rooms are outside the stadium...it's like going to the outhouse! On top of that one is soooo far from the field. Good field glasses a must. Worst than Michigan's fabled "Big House" that I was in a few times in the mid '70's.

Yes Sir, I hear you on all. The Yale bowl makes football even more of a TV sport than it already is, just the opposite of ⚾️

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Hah! So true. Lehigh returns to the Yale Bowl next year and I sort of dread it. The concessions and rest rooms are outside the stadium...it's like going to the outhouse! On top of that one is soooo far from the field. Good field glasses a must. Worst than Michigan's fabled "Big House" that I was in a few times in the mid '70's.

Been to both recently, Yale Bowl 2016 vs Lehigh, Big House 2018 vs SMU. I added a pic from a Lehigh game I attended for a little context. I thought both the Yale Bowl and Big House provided "enjoyable" viewing experiences....

https://scontent.fagc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/41803756_2136674156365004_4992739283614826496_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=rxInNrSMA5sAX8uQPrs&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-1.fna&oh=04a2f5796108c27cbc5f1c04ed80a0f3&oe=61C3CA33
https://scontent.fagc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/14440897_1295809893784772_1947591549100250689_n.jp g?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=l7abQqPMuiAAX8sVmNp&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-2.fna&oh=8af678c7dc25c190f3436bad303d15ca&oe=61C3BA8D
https://scontent.fagc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/14517407_1302350886464006_4269402703169795264_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=eUuel00tZjUAX9kPGPp&_nc_ht=scontent.fagc1-2.fna&oh=b69efb844c181fa2c37890e7ccd1e309&oe=61C66CB2

[ngineer]

The pitch of the stands at the Yale Bowl places one further away from the field. I felt I had to go higher to get a good view of the field, but the higher seats seemed much further from the field. The saving grace of Michigan's is that the stands are closer to the sidelines, but the seats I had were quite high( about row 70) and without field glasses, I felt like I was watching ants. Too bad Goodman doesn't have the sight lines of Taylor.

[Bill]

Random question here -

Does anyone have pictures of the first Lehigh/Lafayette game in Goodman - 1989 when Lafayette had Baur? I was on the team...and can remember (at least I think) ADDITIONAL portable bleachers in places around the field, including the end zones. I have never seen evidence to support my now twisted memories, however!
Thanks....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Random question here -

Does anyone have pictures of the first Lehigh/Lafayette game in Goodman - 1989 when Lafayette had Baur? I was on the team...and can remember (at least I think) ADDITIONAL portable bleachers in places around the field, including the end zones. I have never seen evidence to support my now twisted memories, however!
Thanks....

There was a "permanent" bleacher under the scoreboard from the late 80s until the early 2000s. I know in 1991 Lehigh erected a fairly large bleacher in the south endzone which allowed for the largest crowd in Goodman history, over 19k. After the 1991 riot they never installed the south EZ portable grandstand again. This leads me to believe the 1989 game likely had it and perhaps other stands setup around along the concourse?

I have a freakish memory.....

[Bill]

Thanks - I didn't put two and two together about the Riot....I was there for that one too!

I will always remember coming out of the locker rooms for that 1989 game...I didn't think it was possible to smell alcohol coming off of a crowd before. Was very surreal on the sidelines - full crowd, smelling booze, and snow squalls to boot.

[ngineer]

Great recollections! Yes, there were wooden bleachers erected around the horseshoe (southern) end of the stadium at the plaza level. Also some wooden bleachers at the northern and southern ends of the upper grandstands. They did not do that again after the "Riot" game, but the bleachers under the scoreboard stayed for few more years until they moved them over to the practice fields when the Eagles started having their preseason camp on campus.

[Pards Rule]

Thanks - I didn't put two and two together about the Riot....I was there for that one too!

I will always remember coming out of the locker rooms for that 1989 game...I didn't think it was possible to smell alcohol coming off of a crowd before. Was very surreal on the sidelines - full crowd, smelling booze, and snow squalls to boot.
I may Bill. Not hopeful though. Yes that first game there they had the temp bleachers. Also, I remember the snow squalls. I was in concession line just after halftime started and I hear this roar go up. Im like WTF? I slide over to see through one of the tunnels and there it is coming from the west - a snow squall. The kids still loved snow even though snow days dont happen for colleges unless a very unusual storm (and some HS districts dont do it at all anymore going to remote those days - who would have thought in 1989!) and I so recall that. And there was another one early third quarter.

[Pards Rule]

Thanks - I didn't put two and two together about the Riot....I was there for that one too!

I will always remember coming out of the locker rooms for that 1989 game...I didn't think it was possible to smell alcohol coming off of a crowd before. Was very surreal on the sidelines - full crowd, smelling booze, and snow squalls to boot.

Also another rememberance because Im into transportation, was that on that Saturday before Thanksgiving 1989, there was no traffic to view from the stands on I-78. It would only open a few days later, I think it was Tuesday, right before Thanksgiving. Anyone confirm?

[Bill]

Also another rememberance because Im into transportation, was that on that Saturday before Thanksgiving 1989, there was no traffic to view from the stands on I-78. It would only open a few days later, I think it was Tuesday, right before Thanksgiving. Anyone confirm?
Parts - Yes, I can confirm that. Leaving for Thanksgiving break back in NJ, I'm pretty sure I was one of the first people to use the new road. Until that time I had to drive 22 through Phillipsburg....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Also another rememberance because Im into transportation, was that on that Saturday before Thanksgiving 1989, there was no traffic to view from the stands on I-78. It would only open a few days later, I think it was Tuesday, right before Thanksgiving. Anyone confirm?

Good call regarding 78! I remember when that portion was extended to the Jersey line. That was back in the day when Lehigh basketball would play Rider. I remember taking a little family roadtrip down there around that time when 78 was "fresh". This was when Lehigh basketball was good in the late 80's early 90s. Honestly, might have been the first time my parents and I were on 78.

I have varying recollections of the 87, 88 and 89 games simply because I was quite young and did not attend either of them. The 87 game stands out due to the fact it was Taylor's last game and the importance of that. Thankfully I'm barely old enough to remember Taylor. In fact, I was in A.M. pre-school at Holy Infancy on the South Side (my grandmother worked there) in '87-'88 which makes it even more relatable. Nothing stands out about the 1988 game. The 1989 game I vividly remember watching with my grandmother (my parents were at Goodman) along with #1 Notre Dame (Tony Rice, Rocket, Zorich) vs Penn State in Happy Valley where it was also cold and snowy.

The 1990 game was the first one I went to in person. Eric Torrain had a real big game and 16 year old Kevin Jefferson were the post game talk.

[Pards Rule]

Good call regarding 78! I remember when that portion was extended to the Jersey line. That was back in the day when Lehigh basketball would play Rider. I remember taking a little family roadtrip down there around that time when 78 was "fresh". This was when Lehigh basketball was good in the late 80's early 90s. Honestly, might have been the first time my parents and I were on 78.

I have varying recollections of the 87, 88 and 89 games simply because I was quite young and did not attend either of them. The 87 game stands out due to the fact it was Taylor's last game and the importance of that. Thankfully I'm barely old enough to remember Taylor. In fact, I was in A.M. pre-school at Holy Infancy on the South Side (my grandmother worked there) in '87-'88 which makes it even more relatable. Nothing stands out about the 1988 game. The 1989 game I vividly remember watching with my grandmother (my parents were at Goodman) along with #1 Notre Dame (Tony Rice, Rocket, Zorich) vs Penn State in Happy Valley where it was also cold and snowy.

The 1990 game was the first one I went to in person. Eric Torrain had a real big game and 16 year old Kevin Jefferson were the post game talk.
1987 was also easily the coldest game I have been to in the 42 years. Nearly everyone (except me and what a few hundred) departed at half to watch it in nearby bars and homes. 1988 was the shootout. I recall only a couple things of that game: seeing this HUUUUGE hoagie being carted I guess into press box (I dont know, saw it from the top of Markle deck being handled by I swear three or more people)? And the fact I recall thinking I cant take a piss lest I miss a TD! 1990 I forgot Eric's name but it was a misty rain day at Fisher and to date it, I was at the very east end of the Lafayette stands against the fence (yeah it filled out back in those days). There were temp stands in all four corners in those days too. Who was Kevin Jefferson?

[Pards Rule]

Yeah, in 1989, I recall sitting down in my first seat ever at Goodman before the game and looking at the roadway (I-78) and it had already been announced it would open Tuesday, one day before the Thanksgiving Eve travel, and thinking that will help traffic AND thinking I would never see it empty like this (excepting major - both sides closed - accident or crippling snowstorm and other outliers).

[RichH2]

1987 was also easily the coldest game I have been to in the 42 years. Nearly everyone (except me and what a few hundred) departed at half to watch it in nearby bars and homes. 1988 was the shootout. I recall only a couple things of that game: seeing this HUUUUGE hoagie being carted I guess into press box (I dont know, saw it from the top of Markle deck being handled by I swear three or more people)? And the fact I recall thinking I cant take a piss lest I miss a TD! 1990 I forgot Eric's name but it was a misty rain day at Fisher and to date it, I was at the very east end of the Lafayette stands against the fence (yeah it filled out back in those days). There were temp stands in all four corners in those days too. Who was Kevin Jefferson?
87 was a bitter cold day. Recall going to.Rosie's at halftime for Rusty Nails and defrosting before returning.
Kevin Jefferson was the MLB. He played for the Bengals for a couple of years. Think he played in Europe for a while thereafter.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

87 was a bitter cold day. Recall going to.Rosie's at halftime for Rusty Nails and defrosting before returning.
Kevin Jefferson was the MLB. He played for the Bengals for a couple of years. Think he played in Europe for a while thereafter.

Jefferson received national attention due to his age! It was a pretty big deal at the time! Back then ABC/NBC/CBS/ESPN etc would have live updates for the Harvard/Yale and Lehigh/Lafayette games. Could you imagine interrupting Michigan-Ohio State, Auburn Alabama, Penn State vs Notre Dame to let the nation know Lafayette just scored to take a 24-21 lead in the second quarter in 2021? The PL schools maintained some semblance of cache in the Northeast (which is why the major media outlets gave them pub) until the mid-90s or so.

As I get older you learn to appreciate some of "cool" things from days of yore.

[Pards Rule]

Jefferson received national attention due to his age! It was a pretty big deal at the time! Back then ABC/NBC/CBS/ESPN etc would have live updates for the Harvard/Yale and Lehigh/Lafayette games. Could you imagine interrupting Michigan-Ohio State, Auburn Alabama, Penn State vs Notre Dame to let the nation know Lafayette just scored to take a 24-21 lead in the second quarter in 2021? The PL schools maintained some semblance of cache in the Northeast (which is why the major media outlets gave them pub) until the mid-90s or so.

As I get older you learn to appreciate some of "cool" things from days of yore.

Wait you mean he played in the game?

[DFW HOYA]

Jefferson received national attention due to his age! It was a pretty big deal at the time! Back then ABC/NBC/CBS/ESPN etc would have live updates for the Harvard/Yale and Lehigh/Lafayette games. Could you imagine interrupting Michigan-Ohio State, Auburn Alabama, Penn State vs Notre Dame to let the nation know Lafayette just scored to take a 24-21 lead in the second quarter in 2021? The PL schools maintained some semblance of cache in the Northeast (which is why the major media outlets gave them pub) until the mid-90s or so.

The Ivy League was given "major college" status in newspapers (weekly schedules, games of the week, etc. well into the 1990's, in part because it was well known and considered the only Eastern conference prior to the Big East. The Eastern independents (BC, Holy Cross, Syracuse, Colgate, Penn State, Pitt, West Virginia, Army, Navy, Temple) would also get coverage on ABC's "College Football Scoreboard", which traditionally started with Ivy League scores.

The relegation of the Ivy League into I-AA precipitated its media downfall, as did attendance. Harvard-Yale still matters to the networks because there are 50,000 at the Yale Bowl. When it's Princeton and Penn before 8,000, it doesn't matter.

[Southsider]

Memories of Taylor. 1986 IIRC.........Pic taken from my truck at the 30 Yd. Line! Lots of kegs consumed from that spot!

32316

[Pards Rule]

Memories of Taylor. 1986 IIRC.........Pic taken from my truck at the 30 Yd. Line! Lots of kegs consumed from that spot!

32316
Not Lafayette game

[Southsider]

Wow. You must have gone to Lafayette to have figured that out!

[Pards Rule]

Wow. You must have gone to Lafayette to have figured that out!
I asked an Engineer..he asked Siri

[Digby]

17 years ago today, Lehigh and Lafayette both lost in the playoffs.
Lafayette fell at Delaware, 28-14. It was close until near the end.
Lehigh lost at home to James Madison, 14-13.
I think this was before scholarships, something most of the league still can’t handle well.
That was a fun year.

[Sader87]

The Ivy League was given "major college" status in newspapers (weekly schedules, games of the week, etc. well into the 1990's, in part because it was well known and considered the only Eastern conference prior to the Big East. The Eastern independents (BC, Holy Cross, Syracuse, Colgate, Penn State, Pitt, West Virginia, Army, Navy, Temple) would also get coverage on ABC's "College Football Scoreboard", which traditionally started with Ivy League scores.

The relegation of the Ivy League into I-AA precipitated its media downfall, as did attendance. Harvard-Yale still matters to the networks because there are 50,000 at the Yale Bowl. When it's Princeton and Penn before 8,000, it doesn't matter.

The Prudential College Football Scoreboard with Dave Dyles (sp?).....remembah nervously watching that as a kid to get an HC score of games we didn't go to. xdrunkyx

[ngineer]

Wait you mean he played in the game?

Jefferson was a great LB. Quick and fast as hell. He was only 16 when admitted to Lehigh, I believe, so he graduated around the age of 20. Free agent contract a few years with the Bengals. May have played in Europe as noted, above. I've never seen an LB at our level with his quickness.

[Digby]

The tradition of the Eastern Independent did not serve the region well as the conferences grew and TV money took over the sport. Then the Big East didn’t include Penn State (I believe Syracuse had some issue with Mount Nittany) and thus the football league failed.

[ngineer]

The tradition of the Eastern Independent did not serve the region well as the conferences grew and TV money took over the sport. Then the Big East didn’t include Penn State (I believe Syracuse had some issue with Mount Nittany) and thus the football league failed.

Yes, Paterno tried for years to get the bigger eastern schools to form a conference and Syracuse was his nemesis in the plan. I think one of the primary impediments was that the Nits were requiring 7 guaranteed home games, i.e. Syracuse traveling twice to Mount Nittany versus one by the Nitpickers to Orangeville. I think Pitt had the same reservations. Would have been a nice conference: PSU, Pitt, Syracuse, Maryland, W.Va., Boston College, Rutgers..not sure if Temple was in the conversation. After years of yapping, PSU went to the Big Ten and the rest is history.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

It's beyond sad that Bucknell gets no support for football, especially given the love for the sport in Central/Western PA. Happy Valley is right down the road.

How do you rationalize 800 fans at the final home game? You figure its Senior Day => 25 seniors X 5 family members/friends/girlfriends each => that's 125 right there. The other 75 players X 2 friends or family members each and you're up to 300. So between fellow Bison student-athletes, frats, other students, season ticket holders, local fans, faculty, media and Holy Cross supporters they couldn't get another 600 people there? That's bananas.

Well, that is the problem: Happy Valley exists. You share the fan base with PSU and those fans would rather sit and watch the Lions on ABC than come out and watch bad football. You need better fan engagement and a better team to lure out people. SFU has the same problem.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

It’s called prostitution. It’s the price the schools and their fans pay just so they can assume relevant stature to Ohio State and Michigan.

It is because if your football program is going to lose money, you are going to lose money drawing million dollar paydays from P5 schools, having national TV slots, bowl games, and more eyeballs for advertising. FCS offers none of that.

[Pards Rule]

17 years ago today, Lehigh and Lafayette both lost in the playoffs.
Lafayette fell at Delaware, 28-14. It was close until near the end.
Lehigh lost at home to James Madison, 14-13.
I think this was before scholarships, something most of the league still can’t handle well.
That was a fun year.

I recall walking into Stadium and Hen fans saying "we will see you at half" (I presume meaning blowout so we would depart at half). Great game. We were driving (at their 30?) to tie the game with two minutes left and The Squish to Maurer happened and Mondo? returned it for TD with 2 minutes left. Went to Charcoal Pit restaurant after and Hen fans complimented us on game.

[caribbeanhen]

The Prudential College Football Scoreboard with Dave Dyles (sp?).....remembah nervously watching that as a kid to get an HC score of games we didn't go to. xdrunkyx

Was that the one with the Velcro numbers they stuck to the board?

I remember one of those old scoreboard shows would always provide the score of the Slippery Rock game

[Go Green]

The relegation of the Ivy League into I-AA precipitated its media downfall, as did attendance.

Just to be clear, the downfall in attendance relegated the Ivy League into I-AA--not the other way around.

That said, I will accept that the move to I-AA caused the media to lose interest in the Ivy.

[DFW HOYA]

Just to be clear, the downfall in attendance relegated the Ivy League into I-AA--not the other way around.

That said, I will accept that the move to I-AA caused the media to lose interest in the Ivy.

Thanks for the clarification. Now this hypothetical--if the larger Ivy schools (H-Y-P-Pe) had stayed I-A and the smaller schools played as I-AA independents with an all-sports confederation among the eight, where would they all be today?

[Go Green]

Thanks for the clarification. Now this hypothetical--if the larger Ivy schools (H-Y-P-Pe) had stayed I-A and the smaller schools played as I-AA independents with an all-sports confederation among the eight, where would they all be today?

My guess is that the smaller schools would have joined Holy Cross, Colgate, Fordham, and one of Bucknell, Lafayette and Lehigh to form the Patriot League.

The larger ones... I don't know. Army and Navy perhaps. But unless they were willing to go easy on admissions standards (and they would not have been) it's hard to see who else would have joined them.

[Sader87]

Princeton and UPenn football were mostly average to bad during the 1970s and into relegation in 1982. UPenn improved after going 1-AA....there was no way the Ivy League was splitting up in football ovah the 1-A/1-AA split.