Garrett out at Lafayette

[RichH2]

College emailed the announcement.
Pard fans will be ecstatic.

[Pards Rule]

Im just talking on phone to my college friend in MD and we both said it was going to happen

[Pards Rule]

Bring back Hefner!

[DFW HOYA]

Surprised. The PL is not a place that likes change.

[IslandPard]

Wow! Freeman DOES mean business!!! Love it!!

https://goleopards.com/news/2021/11/22/lafayette-athletics-announces-head-football-coaching-change.aspx

[Pards Rule]

Wow! Freeman DOES mean business!!! Love it!!

https://goleopards.com/news/2021/11/22/lafayette-athletics-announces-head-football-coaching-change.aspx


She's not playing!

[Pard4Life]

O. M. G.

I thought Rich was trolling. But there is a genuine press release on the actual Lafayette website.

[crusader11]

Good for Lafayette.

[Pard4Life]

Next question... does this mean that Fran is on notice??

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Great news for Lafayette and the PL!! This "PL" schools don't care enough to fire/or rid themselves of coaches narrative (ngineer) must end. Holy Cross chases off Gilmore and now Lafayette unloads Garrett...

If Gilmore returns it has to be either PL Title or be knocking on the door next year. I really thought whoever lost on Saturday was going to feel enough pressure to make the move. In many ways I wish Lehigh was able to turn the page sooner...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If I'm Lafayette Jim Clements is the very first call I make. He will succeed at Lafayette....

[Gater]

Looks like Lehigh's found its next coach.

[caribbeanhen]

Rocco can easily slide in at Laffy

[Franks Tanks]

If I'm Lafayette Jim Clements is the very first call I make. He will succeed at Lafayette....

Yup, coach Mac at Shippensburg is darn good too. Calls for John Loose have started. He would be a tremendous choice if interested. He has a great thing going at Army and is paid well.

Best thing is that Bruce isn’t making the decision. Ms. Freeman has done a good job hiring coaches during her tenure and I think she has good judgment. This should be it for Fran too.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Yup, coach Mac at Shippensburg is darn good too. Calls for John Loose have started. He would be a tremendous choice if interested. He has a great thing going at Army and is paid well.

Best thing is that Bruce isn’t making the decision. Ms. Freeman has done a good job hiring coaches during her tenure and I think she has good judgment. This should be it for Fran too.

I mentioned Mac at Ship a couple of months ago! He and Clements would have been my top 2 choices for Lehigh. Both are excellent D2/PSAC coaches who will succeed at a "high level" with "reasonable" support at a local/regional FCS program....

[crusader11]

Tim Cramsey
Chris Pincince
Kevin Decker

Should all get interviews.

[Franks Tanks]

I mentioned Mac at Ship a couple of months ago! He and Clements would have been my top 2 choices for Lehigh. Both are excellent D2/PSAC coaches who will succeed at a "high level" with "reasonable" support at a local/regional FCS program....

For sure. Former Lafayette QB Mussina is doing very well at Ship. Coach Mac played at Ship and may be a lifer there. Cramsey will no doubt be mentioned as well, and for good reason. Not sure if there will be mutual interest there.

[Pard4Life]

Lafayette just beat Rutgers in basketball... this is the greatest day in Lafayette history since Pat Davis threw that pigskin off his back foot.

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The board is back... :correction: ... a new board is back... hope it's the road to something good: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/pardsville/

[TheGame]

Sherryta spent a LOT of time dealing with unhappy players and parents and trying to justify Garrett's mercurial coaching style. Still a very ballsy move to drop him. She's doing a a nice job.

While Fran's team is certainly stinking up the joint, I don't get the impression his kids are leaving College Hill hating basketball and regretting their decision to go to Lafayette. I think he'll name his retirement date.

[CHIP72]

Lafayette just beat Rutgers in basketball... this is the greatest day in Lafayette history since Pat Davis threw that pigskin off his back foot.

- - - Updated - - -

The board is back... :correction: ... a new board is back... hope it's the road to something good: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/pardsville/

God damn - a trifecta of good news on the Lafayette front. I'm not sure how I'd rank the three items. Maybe 1) new board, 2) Garrett fired, 3) LC stuns Rutgers?

[Pard4Life]

God damn - a trifecta of good news on the Lafayette front. I'm not sure how I'd rank the three items. Maybe 1) new board, 2) Garrett fired, 3) LC stuns Rutgers?

1) LC beating Rutgers... ancient hated rival
2) Garrett put out to pasture (was not fired, just not renewed)
distant 3) new board xdrunkyx

[ngineer]

Great news for Lafayette and the PL!! This "PL" schools don't care enough to fire/or rid themselves of coaches narrative (ngineer) must end. Holy Cross chases off Gilmore and now Lafayette unloads Garrett...

If Gilmore returns it has to be either PL Title or be knocking on the door next year. I really thought whoever lost on Saturday was going to feel enough pressure to make the move. In many ways I wish Lehigh was able to turn the page sooner...

I am not surprised. Garrett's contract was over which makes it a lot easier to separate. The way Lafayette played the last half of the season warranted the move, which was emphasized by the way they played on Saturday. There was no "juice" on that team. The Lehigh kids were psyched to be playing. Lafayette kids were just walking around. Had Lafayette won with a decisive victory, it may have made the decision not to renew a bit tougher, but I think the last five weeks sealed his fate.

As for Gilmore, I am sure there will be need for this improvement we saw during the last five weeks to continue next year. I doubt a PL title is required, but we certainly want to be knocking on the door. I see six or seven reasonable chances for wins on next year's schedule. If we can improve enough to give Villanova, Richmond and Princeton good competitive games, then I think they will continue to let Gilmore at least get a full cycle of recruiting.

[Pards Rule]

If I'm Lafayette Jim Clements is the very first call I make. He will succeed at Lafayette....

Im intrigued. A Russo (D3 coach to D1) redux?

[Pards Rule]

Yup, coach Mac at Shippensburg is darn good too. Calls for John Loose have started. He would be a tremendous choice if interested. He has a great thing going at Army and is paid well.

Best thing is that Bruce isn’t making the decision. Ms. Freeman has done a good job hiring coaches during her tenure and I think she has good judgment. This should be it for Fran too.
I was thinking of Loose too but I discarded him as I thought he wouldnt depart Asst HC at Army. Can we lure Bob Hefner back from Northwestern?

[Pards Rule]

I am not surprised. Garrett's contract was over which makes it a lot easier to separate. The way Lafayette played the last half of the season warranted the move, which was emphasized by the way they played on Saturday. There was no "juice" on that team. The Lehigh kids were psyched to be playing. Lafayette kids were just walking around. Had Lafayette won with a decisive victory, it may have made the decision not to renew a bit tougher, but I think the last five weeks sealed his fate.

As for Gilmore, I am sure there will be need for this improvement we saw during the last five weeks to continue next year. I doubt a PL title is required, but we certainly want to be knocking on the door. I see six or seven reasonable chances for wins on next year's schedule. If we can improve enough to give Villanova, Richmond and Princeton good competitive games, then I think they will continue to let Gilmore at least get a full cycle of recruiting.

Agreed totally. I think a tentative decision had been made before the game and if Pards had won decisively, would have given them some pause. I understand in a interview John said the traditional end of the last practice which is the "senior tunnel" for first time in 5 years of overseeing that, he got emotional. I guess he knew he was in all liklihood departing. Very, very sad (as HE would say) ending to a promising start of a season.

[IslandPard]

I was thinking of Loose too but I discarded him as I thought he wouldnt depart Asst HC at Army. Can we lure Bob Heffner back from Northwestern?

The new coach has to come from a successful lower level program.

Hefner, Cramsey and Loose are FBS coaches likely earning just as much or more than a PL HC position (minus the handcuffs and headaches). The move makes no sense for them unless forced down ala Garrett.

[Pards Rule]

The new coach has to come from a successful lower level program.

Hefner, Cramsey and Loose are FBS coaches likely earning just as much or more than a PL HC position (minus the handcuffs and headaches). The move makes no sense for them unless forced down ala Garrett.
Garrett can only get HC at this point in D2 or D3

[Fordham]

The new coach has to come from a successful lower level program.

Hefner, Cramsey and Loose are FBS coaches likely earning just as much or more than a PL HC position (minus the handcuffs and headaches). The move makes no sense for them unless forced down ala Garrett.

There are only so many D1 football coaching positions so I think you'll be surprised at the resumes that come in from all over. The key imo is that Lafayette really understands what it wants. Are they looking for a lifer or someone to come in, kill it and move up? For Fordham, that's the model and I think HC is now having success with it as well as I expect Chesney will be gone this year or next. The days of Biddle or Tavani having lifetime appointments should be done imo but, again, it's going to come down to what Lafayette wants. I think it's one helluva job if they now have a President who wants the program to win. Amazing facilities for this level and the chance to offer free education at such a great school? The right coach, with even decent admin support, can thrive pretty quickly there imo and be on to a high level P5 ass't job or head coach at an upper tier FCS or maybe even low level FBS team (will be interesting to see where Chesney ends up imo). Exciting times for Lafayette imo but their choice will be very telling as to what they're looking for out of the program.

[Franks Tanks]

I mentioned Mac at Ship a couple of months ago! He and Clements would have been my top 2 choices for Lehigh. Both are excellent D2/PSAC coaches who will succeed at a "high level" with "reasonable" support at a local/regional FCS program....


There are only so many D1 football coaching positions so I think you'll be surprised at the resumes that come in from all over. The key imo is that Lafayette really understands what it wants. Are they looking for a lifer or someone to come in, kill it and move up? For Fordham, that's the model and I think HC is now having success with it as well as I expect Chesney will be gone this year or next. The days of Biddle or Tavani having lifetime appointments should be done imo but, again, it's going to come down to what Lafayette wants. I think it's one helluva job if they now have a President who wants the program to win. Amazing facilities for this level and the chance to offer free education at such a great school? The right coach, with even decent admin support, can thrive pretty quickly there imo and be on to a high level P5 ass't job or head coach at an upper tier FCS or maybe even low level FBS team (will be interesting to see where Chesney ends up imo). Exciting times for Lafayette imo but their choice will be very telling as to what they're looking for out of the program.

Agree. While assistant salaries in the PL aren’t the best, head coaches are paid well and it’s generally a good gig. We will have lots of options and an AD not beholden to past regimes and biases. For example, I understand John Loose was not considered last time around as he and the former AD didn’t get along due to John advocating so hard for the program years ago. LC’s new President seems to be pro athletics, at least more so than what we’re accustomed to. Her husband was an athletic administrator at UVA and she said she views athletics as integral to the college experience. I think the Pards have a chance to knock this one out of the park with Hurd and Freeman calling the shots.

[Bill]

The new coach has to come from a successful lower level program.

Hefner, Cramsey and Loose are FBS coaches likely earning just as much or more than a PL HC position (minus the handcuffs and headaches). The move makes no sense for them unless forced down ala Garrett.

I agree with Island Pard...unless there is some very unique circumstance. Hefner, for example, must make in the $500 - $750k range at Northwestern (Big 10 assistant coaches average just about $500k a year - and I can't imagine any PL school paying close to that....

[Fordham]

I agree with Island Pard...unless there is some very unique circumstance. Hefner, for example, must make in the $500 - $750k range at Northwestern (Big 10 assistant coaches average just about $500k a year - and I can't imagine any PL school paying close to that....

Two things. I disagree he's making that much. Iowa's position coaches are making around $300K. I can't imagine Northwestern is paying much more than that. It's not like he's an OC or DC. More important, I think a guy who has always wanted to be a HC will absolutely take a small step back in salary to prove himself as HC since it's the way to really unlock the big $$'s if he's successful. Plus, it's a brutal business and if you have HC experience on your resume it seems like you can always find a staff job after that whereas I'm not sure a lifelong ass't has that same level of security. I've had good info from the last few openings at Fordham to know that there is ALOT more interest in these jobs than you think and the resumes run the gamut so it will really be up to Lafayette as to what they want.

That said, I know Lafayette fans love him but what about Heffner's resume makes you believe he'll be a great HC? He seems comfortable where he is as opposed to a guy who is chomping at the bit to succeed and move on and who therefore is willing to either ignore or plow through any obstacles that come being a coach in the PL. Not meant to be disrespectful to him but imo this is exactly the kind of resume that screams out that Lafayette remains unwilling to go out of their comfort zone and seems more like Lafayette hiring the next Gilmore than the next Chesney.

[IslandPard]

Having played under Hefner I can say that I'm not sure he's head coach material either. He's not a schmoozer or a fundraiser and tends to tell it like it is. Qualities not really appreciated at press conferences. He knows his football and how to teach the game though!

[Franks Tanks]

Having played under Hefner I can say that I'm not sure he's head coach material either. He's not a schmoozer or a fundraiser and tends to tell it like it is. Qualities not really appreciated at press conferences. He knows his football and how to teach the game though!

Yup, he’s 64 and has it made at Northwestern. If I were him I’d be thinking retirement not taking my 1st head coaching gig. Unlike the last time around, I have a lot of confidence in our AD to perform a proper search and select the right candidate.

[Bill]

Two things. I disagree he's making that much. Iowa's position coaches are making around $300K. I can't imagine Northwestern is paying much more than that. It's not like he's an OC or DC.

Fordham,
Since they are private, I cannot prove it, but I am very confident he is above $500k. When factoring in 11 years there, and Chicago area costs, he's there.
Iowa's coaching salaries are at:
https://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sports/college/iowa/football/2020/09/01/iowa-football-kirk-ferentz-assistant-coaches-get-raises-led-by-defensive-coordinator-phil-parker/3450467001/

For comparison, here's Ohio State (good to look at the top)
https://www.buckeyextra.com/story/football/2021/04/28/ohio-state-football-assistant-coaching-salary-7-63-million-2021/4877384001/

And at NU, FHC Fitzgerald was getting over $5 million back in 2017...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2019/07/23/northwestern-football-coach-pat-fitzgerald-paid-more-5-million-2017/1807491001/

[Go Green]

She's not playing!

She's also from Dartmouth.

Don't be surprised if Dartmouth OC Kevin Daft is in the mix for the next Lafayette HC if he is interested.

[caribbeanhen]

Having played under Hefner I can say that I'm not sure he's head coach material either. He's not a schmoozer or a fundraiser and tends to tell it like it is. Qualities not really appreciated at press conferences. He knows his football and how to teach the game though!

IslandPard

I really like that username

[RichH2]

I am not surprised. Garrett's contract was over which makes it a lot easier to separate. The way Lafayette played the last half of the season warranted the move, which was emphasized by the way they played on Saturday. There was no "juice" on that team. The Lehigh kids were psyched to be playing. Lafayette kids were just walking around. Had Lafayette won with a decisive victory, it may have made the decision not to renew a bit tougher, but I think the last five weeks sealed his fate.

As for Gilmore, I am sure there will be need for this improvement we saw during the last five weeks to continue next year. I doubt a PL title is required, but we certainly want to be knocking on the door. I see six or seven reasonable chances for wins on next year's schedule. If we can improve enough to give Villanova, Richmond and Princeton good competitive games, then I think they will continue to let Gilmore at least get a full cycle of recruiting.

+1 If Tom and staff continue the progress,albeit it vs weak competition, I will be a happy camper.They certainly have built a positive culture. Now it depends more on how well they can coach these kids up.
While there are numerous valid reasons for the inept offense over the last 3 years, the bottom line is we have had an atrocious offense. A 5 game surge by the O is great but it does not balance all those years. That is an issue Tom and Joe must address.

[DFW HOYA]

I've had good info from the last few openings at Fordham to know that there is ALOT more interest in these jobs than you think and the resumes run the gamut so it will really be up to Lafayette as to what they want.

Absolutely. Three are upwards of 2,500 assistants out there (most underpaid) and no more than 40 head coaching jobs open up in any one year in Division I.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

+1 If Tom and staff continue the progress,albeit it vs weak competition, I will be a happy camper.They certainly have built a positive culture. Now it depends more on how well they can coach these kids up.
While there are numerous valid reasons for the inept offense over the last 3 years, the bottom line is we have had an atrocious offense. A 5 game surge by the O is great but it does not balance all those years. That is an issue Tom and Joe must address.

The excuses have to end. Gilmore has a large enough body of work at HC and Lehigh to know what type of coach he is. The fact they beat 3 horrific football PROGRAMS (not teams) is a simple testament to the overall Lehigh football culture/tradition. It's a big reason why Coen and company crushed Garrett to conclude the 2018 season. Lehigh football has the prerequisite talent/culture/tradition/facilities to "not be them". Fine, Gilmore was able to prove that. However, Lehigh is the best program in the PL imo (obvious bias, but i do try to be fair as possible). The only other program with a legit stake, Colgate, helped to state a great claim with their second-place league finish (smoking of Lehigh to boot) is a testament to their tradition and culture given what they've gone through during, Covid, an awful spring season, losing their head coach last minute etc. I mean holy crap! Everyone has "adversity". Some prepare, adapt and r-establish better than others.

Challenge for the league/playoffs or get the hell out! Their OOC schedule is not tough for a quality FCS team...

I'm very much interested to see who Lafayette hires. I think they honestly get this right. There needs to be a move from the whole PL/IL "candidate funnel". If there was ever an organization that needed some "new perspectives" it's PL football....

[RichH2]

And the Giants fired their Garrett.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

And the Giants fired their Garrett.

LOL...that's going to be one helluva Thanksgiving! Both absolutely deserve it too!

[DFW HOYA]

And the Giants fired their Garrett.
Hiring Jason might send the Pard fans into a low earth orbit.

[CHIP72]

Hiring Jason might send the Pard fans into a low earth orbit.

I don’t want Charlotte Rae as head coach either!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RichH2]

Hiring Jason might send the Pard fans into a low earth orbit.

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[IslandPard]

And the Giants fired their Garrett.

This is better than Christmas!!!!

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IslandPard

I really like that username

Thanks...I think?

[Pards Rule]

Having played under Hefner I can say that I'm not sure he's head coach material either. He's not a schmoozer or a fundraiser and tends to tell it like it is. Qualities not really appreciated at press conferences. He knows his football and how to teach the game though!

And thats what I want and LC needs. Good God Ill do the schmoozing free! Anyways Garrett made approx $250K first year. You can assume subsequent years were not COLA increases.

[ngineer]

And the Giants fired their Garrett.

Oh wow! Maybe their name should be pronounced "Garrotte"! Hey, bro. How was your day?

[crusader11]

I don’t want it to happen, but Scott James is someone who Lafayette will likely go after.

[Pards Rule]

I don’t want it to happen, but Scott James is someone who Lafayette will likely go after.

Is he looking?

[ngineer]

I don’t want it to happen, but Scott James is someone who Lafayette will likely go after.

Maybe James may be thinking of staying in the event Chesney decides to go for a brass ring.

[crusader11]

Is he looking?

No idea. Think he should hitch his wagon to Chesney, but the appeal of running your own program is hard to pass on.

I’ve mentioned it before, but Kevin Decker (Fordham OC) is an intriguing name.

[Pard4Life]

She's also from Dartmouth.

Don't be surprised if Dartmouth OC Kevin Daft is in the mix for the next Lafayette HC if he is interested.

Someone else floated this idea to me too today... Dartmouth has really achieved a lot and really turned around that program. Good system - they are always competitive.

[Pard4Life]

Heffner and Loose, while great for LC in the past, are they cut out for the present? Would they make great head coaches? They seem to really know their areas and are successful, but I think running a program takes a different skill set.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Heffner and Loose, while great for LC in the past, are they cut out for the present? Would they make great head coaches? They seem to really know their areas and are successful, but I think running a program takes a different skill set.

Get out of the PL/IL cycle! Hire someone in there who might ruffle a few of the "established" feathers....

3 Prereqs...
1. Good Dude
2. Track Record of Success
3. Knows the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic recruiting environment....

[leopardball2010]

Hey guys! Been a few years since I've been on the forum! Seems like I picked a good day to come back!

As it's been said there will be a ton of outside interest. Laf will honestly have their pick.

Hef is a great coach, but probably not interested.

Loose is a great pick, and could deal with all the head coach BS but he'd need to put a great staff together. Also, no idea if his family still lives on Northampton or not. Moving his family again may not work.

I'm surprised I haven't heard Marvin Clecidor's name yet. BCS and Ivy experience, Laf grad, played under Loose.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[IslandPard]

Hey guys! Been a few years since I've been on the forum! Seems like I picked a good day to come back!

As it's been said there will be a ton of outside interest. Laf will honestly have their pick.

Hef is a great coach, but probably not interested.

Loose is a great pick, and could deal with all the head coach BS but he'd need to put a great staff together. Also, no idea if his family still lives on Northampton or not. Moving his family again may not work.

I'm surprised I haven't heard Marvin Clecidor's name yet. BCS and Ivy experience, Laf grad, played under Loose.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Marvin has only held a co-defensive coordinator job, whatever that means. I think most of us would be most excited about someone new to college with a proven level of success. Not someone who wants to come back to the college and get comfortable. That kind of thinking got us into this hole.

[leopardball2010]

Marvin has only held a co-defensive coordinator job, whatever that means. I think most of us would be most excited about someone new to college with a proven level of success. Not someone who wants to come back to the college and get comfortable. That kind of thinking got us into this hole.Hmmmmm... That's an interesting take. Most coaches would consider his career a meteoric rise through the ranks. The man's only like 36 and has gone from D3 assistant at Wilkes to Wagner, Rutgers GA, Princeton Co-DC at 30ish, to now at Western Michigan. If Marvin came back to Laf and turned the program around he would be poached pretty quickly.

I don't disagree that going outside for the hire with an up and coming FCS power conference coordinator may be great. I just don't know who the names are right now that are looking and ready.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[ngineer]

Agree. While assistant salaries in the PL aren’t the best, head coaches are paid well and it’s generally a good gig. We will have lots of options and an AD not beholden to past regimes and biases. For example, I understand John Loose was not considered last time around as he and the former AD didn’t get along due to John advocating so hard for the program years ago. LC’s new President seems to be pro athletics, at least more so than what we’re accustomed to. Her husband was an athletic administrator at UVA and she said she views athletics as integral to the college experience. I think the Pards have a chance to knock this one out of the park with Hurd and Freeman calling the shots.

That is a HUGE change from some of the head honcho's Lafayette has had. Lehigh made Sterrett "Dean of Athletics" a number of years ago, recognizing this philosophy. The question still always remains with our League as to how restrictive will it will be upon our ability to recruit. Any HC candidate has to take into consideration whether he wants to jump into that kind of lake.

[ngineer]

Get out of the PL/IL cycle! Hire someone in there who might ruffle a few of the "established" feathers....

3 Prereqs...
1. Good Dude
2. Track Record of Success
3. Knows the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic recruiting environment....

Agreed to all three, but you need a fourth: someone who knows the PL Philosophy and the restrictions under which they will have to operate and is enthusiastic about taking on that challenge.

[caribbeanhen]

Someone else floated this idea to me too today... Dartmouth has really achieved a lot and really turned around that program. Good system - they are always competitive.

but at Dartmouth he’s gonna have talent to work with

[DFW HOYA]

Agreed to all three, but you need a fourth: someone who knows the PL Philosophy and the restrictions under which they will have to operate and is enthusiastic about taking on that challenge.

This philosophy has to change. I'm not saying the PL becomes the SEC West, but this league's benign neglect of football in the cloak of academic elitism is ringing hollow.

[ngineer]

This philosophy has to change. I'm not saying the PL becomes the SEC West, but this league's benign neglect of football in the cloak of academic elitism is ringing hollow.

True, but that philosophy isn't going to change between now and when Lafayette hires Garrett's replacement; and unlikely to change for a few years--at best.

[leopardball2010]

True, but that philosophy isn't going to change between now and when Lafayette hires Garrett's replacement; and unlikely to change for a few years--at best.Idk about that, a new AD and new apparent direction is the definition of that philosophy change. I don't think we can expect to see giant leaps in the Patriot League becoming the CAA next season. But I think We are definitely seeing those changes in real time.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[ngineer]

Idk about that, a new AD and new apparent direction is the definition of that philosophy change. I don't think we can expect to see giant leaps in the Patriot League becoming the CAA next season. But I think We are definitely seeing those changes in real time.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

I was talking about the League changing philosophy..and that comes through the Presidents Council. Lafayette may be more "in" to shoring up athletics, but not sure if Bucknell and Georgetown care about football. Football seems to be the 'bastard child' of the PL. Only 6 members out of 10 play and the 7th football team still doesn't go with scholarships. Unless we get a solid replacement for Gtown that would be a full PL member, I question whether anything will change. I have suggested before that a study be done by the PL as to whether they want to keep football, but let all 7 members go their own way.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I was talking about the League changing philosophy..and that comes through the Presidents Council. Lafayette may be more "in" to shoring up athletics, but not sure if Bucknell and Georgetown care about football. Football seems to be the 'bastard child' of the PL. Only 6 members out of 10 play and the 7th football team still doesn't go with scholarships. Unless we get a solid replacement for Gtown that would be a full PL member, I question whether anything will change. I have suggested before that a study be done by the PL as to whether they want to keep football, but let all 7 members go their own way.

The institution's still captain their own ship. Holy Cross went for a guy with no formal IL/PL ties and he's clowning everyone else who are stuck in their archaic nonsense.

[Pards Rule]

I was talking about the League changing philosophy..and that comes through the Presidents Council. Lafayette may be more "in" to shoring up athletics, but not sure if Bucknell and Georgetown care about football. Football seems to be the 'bastard child' of the PL. Only 6 members out of 10 play and the 7th football team still doesn't go with scholarships. Unless we get a solid replacement for Gtown that would be a full PL member, I question whether anything will change. I have suggested before that a study be done by the PL as to whether they want to keep football, but let all 7 members go their own way.

Were you the one positing replacements for Georgetown like Albany and Dusquesne?

[RichH2]

This philosophy has to change. I'm not saying the PL becomes the SEC West, but this league's benign neglect of football in the cloak of academic elitism is ringing hollow.

+1. Covid has enabled redshirting,albeit somewhat limited and temporary. Furthermore, the 90 roster cap is suspended at least until last year's frosh graduate.
Will it help? Probably. More importantly, I think, it will be easier For the Council to accept permanent changes to PL by-laws.

[ngineer]

Were you the one positing replacements for Georgetown like Albany and Dusquesne?

No. My preference would be for someone like Richmond, VMI, 'nova or Wm & Mary. I mentioned Duquesne as being a potential 8th team if Gtown was staying as a geographical rival, but as pointed out, the distance is probably longer than Bucknell. I don't see the earlier scenario occurring unless the CAA undergoes some kind of transformation should JMU and others bolt.

[caribbeanhen]

Idk about that, a new AD and new apparent direction is the definition of that philosophy change. I don't think we can expect to see giant leaps in the Patriot League becoming the CAA next season. But I think We are definitely seeing those changes in real time.

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The CAA is becoming the Patriot league pretty quickly

[CHIP72]

The CAA is becoming the Patriot league pretty quickly

James Madison leaving for the Sun Belt is huge. I can see the days of the CAA being one of the top 2-3 DI-AA/FCS conferences being over in the near future.

[Pards Rule]

No. My preference would be for someone like Richmond, VMI, 'nova or Wm & Mary. I mentioned Duquesne as being a potential 8th team if Gtown was staying as a geographical rival, but as pointed out, the distance is probably longer than Bucknell. I don't see the earlier scenario occurring unless the CAA undergoes some kind of transformation should JMU and others bolt.
OK. And I say keep it at 7 teams. I like 5 OOC games thank you

[leopardball2010]

James Madison leaving for the Sun Belt is huge. I can see the days of the CAA being one of the top 2-3 DI-AA/FCS conferences being over in the near future.And yet I think any PL fan would take being the Duke-less CAA any day. Especially with the CAA courting expansion teams.

Bottom line in my mind is that the PL isn't going to be a top 2-4 conference. But we should be competitive. We aren't going to be the premier destination for FCS coaches, But we could easily become a prime launching pad for young coaches wher they could be successful before moving to the big time, either in FCS or FBS.

We need to get back to the days when the best PL coaches are heading to bowling Green and other MAC programs as head coaches.

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[Southsider]

No. My preference would be for someone like Richmond, VMI, 'nova or Wm & Mary. I mentioned Duquesne as being a potential 8th team if Gtown was staying as a geographical rival, but as pointed out, the distance is probably longer than Bucknell. I don't see the earlier scenario occurring unless the CAA undergoes some kind of transformation should JMU and others bolt.

JMU already bolted!

[leopardball2010]

JMU already bolted!I think he's talking about the rumors around Elon and Charleston possibly heading to the SoCon as well as possible CAA expansion raiding the MEAC.

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[DFW HOYA]

And yet I think any PL fan would take being the Duke-less CAA any day. Especially with the CAA courting expansion teams.

Bottom line in my mind is that the PL isn't going to be a top 2-4 conference. But we should be competitive. We aren't going to be the premier destination for FCS coaches, But we could easily become a prime launching pad for young coaches where they could be successful before moving to the big time, either in FCS or FBS. We need to get back to the days when the best PL coaches are heading to bowling Green and other MAC programs as head coaches.

Unless you're the Ivy League, every single conference is experiencing change. Why do schools stay? Their conferences embrace change. Why do schools leave? Their conferences do not embrace change.

There are three PL schools likely asking some hard questions now or very soon.

1. Bucknell: Nearly 20% of Bucknell's $30M athletic budget is supporting a football team that has no path to competing for a championship. Bucknell is the only original I-AA school to have never qualified for the playoffs. What changes in the PL allow them to compete and to regain its fan base?

2. Georgetown: Twenty years have passed and the Hoyas are still no closer to be remotely competitive in this league than when Bob Benson was preaching patience following a 69-0 loss to Lehigh. Too much digital ink has been spent explaining why, but if the PL is not interested in providing a means where Georgetown can compete, will the Hoyas walk? I did not see this as an issue three or four years ago but more people are starting to ask why Georgetown is playing in a league with no potential.

3. Fordham: 2021 provided yet another hard lesson to the Rams: there are no-large opportunities in this league, no matter if you play Nebraska or FAU. And at $8 million a year, is Fordham getting its money's worth out of this league?

The PL must grow (numerically and philosophically) or wither. Too much of the "they're not good enough for us" (Monmouth, Duquesne, Marist), "not a good fit" (Howard, Hampton), "too small" (Merrimack) "too big" (LIU), etc. Otherwise, it's a four or five team circuit.

[fillfittonfield]

2. Georgetown: Twenty years have passed and the Hoyas are still no closer to be remotely competitive in this league than when Bob Benson was preaching patience following a 69-0 loss to Lehigh. Too much digital ink has been spent explaining why, but if the PL is not interested in providing a means where Georgetown can compete, will the Hoyas walk? I did not see this as an issue three or four years ago but more people are starting to ask why Georgetown is playing in a league with no potential.



DFW:

What must the PL do to “provide a means where Georgetown can compete?”

Allow Georgetown (and all schools) to dump the AI? I would support this. You and I have discussed this in a previous post when you were explaining the disadvantage Georgetown has in recruiting as compared to its peers.

Beyond dumping the AI, however, there isn’t much that I see the PL/President’ Council can do. After 20 plus years of struggles in the PL, I think the Georgetown admin needs to look in the mirror and make some tough decisions.

[Go Green]

I probably should know this, but has there ever been an African-American head football coach in the PL? If not, then maybe Freeman gives someone a shot.

[Go Green]

Why do schools stay? Their conferences embrace change.

Or.... they have nowhere else to go.

[Pards Rule]

I probably should know this, but has there ever been an African-American head football coach in the PL? If not, then maybe Freeman gives someone a shot.

Not that I know of. Doug McFadden, Pard defensive coach and DC for a stretch now, might be that choice; however, no HC experience. Not sure if a prerequisite on this hire?

[leopardball2010]

I probably should know this, but has there ever been an African-American head football coach in the PL? If not, then maybe Freeman gives someone a shot.Not to my knowledge. I think Freeman definitely interviews more minority candidates for sure. It was said on the new Lafayette board that Doug McFadden has interviewed, he is the interim HC. But I would be very surprised if he gets it, he's been at Laf through the bad Tavani years and was the only holdover with Garrett.

The only other minority candidate that has been mentioned is Marvin Clecidor, an alumni.

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[ngineer]

Unless you're the Ivy League, every single conference is experiencing change. Why do schools stay? Their conferences embrace change. Why do schools leave? Their conferences do not embrace change.

There are three PL schools likely asking some hard questions now or very soon.

1. Bucknell: Nearly 20% of Bucknell's $30M athletic budget is supporting a football team that has no path to competing for a championship. Bucknell is the only original I-AA school to have never qualified for the playoffs. What changes in the PL allow them to compete and to regain its fan base?

2. Georgetown: Twenty years have passed and the Hoyas are still no closer to be remotely competitive in this league than when Bob Benson was preaching patience following a 69-0 loss to Lehigh. Too much digital ink has been spent explaining why, but if the PL is not interested in providing a means where Georgetown can compete, will the Hoyas walk? I did not see this as an issue three or four years ago but more people are starting to ask why Georgetown is playing in a league with no potential.

3. Fordham: 2021 provided yet another hard lesson to the Rams: there are no-large opportunities in this league, no matter if you play Nebraska or FAU. And at $8 million a year, is Fordham getting its money's worth out of this league?

The PL must grow (numerically and philosophically) or wither. Too much of the "they're not good enough for us" (Monmouth, Duquesne, Marist), "not a good fit" (Howard, Hampton), "too small" (Merrimack) "too big" (LIU), etc. Otherwise, it's a four or five team circuit.

Generally, agreed; however, the PL has undertaken significant change from its original intended plan by going to athletic scholarships approximately ten years ago and capping rosters. Not everyone has approached the change the same, with the Hoyas not going with scholarships and teams seemingly having different roster caps. Haven't had time to research, but it is my understanding Bucknell has not been using their full allotment of scholarships? The problem, I think, is that the PL Presidents (and in reflecting their Boards) do NOT want to invest more in football than they have to be "competitive". It is no big deal to them if one of our members has lightning strike and makes it to Frisco. Athletics is still viewed as "part of the academic process", whereas that philosophy is withering away, nationally. They fear getting sucked into the whirlpool of an athletics-first mentality that envisions money-making opportunities. The next step for the PL would be to liberalize the financial aid formula and allow red shirting; but, since not all members have graduate schools, that cannot be equitably implemented. But, that would be a huge step in boosting our competitiveness with schools from the NEC, CAA, SoCon,etal.

[Franks Tanks]

Interesting little piece of info. Both of Clements coordinators at Kutztown are Lafayette guys. Marcel Quarterman is the OC and Mike St. Germain the DC.

I think the Leopards should look hard at Clements, coach Mac at Shippensburg and of course John Loose. Please stay away from Ivy League guys. I would like to see them bring in. successful D2 coach. These guys know how to coach and run a program with modest budgets.

[Pards Rule]

Aye, now discussion is with Duke staff fricking fired yesterday that Jeff Monckin name in the mix at Durham. That would leave Army Asst HC John Loose in prime position to be next Army HC. Who knows how this plays out?

[CHIP72]

One more name I'll throw out there - Muhlenberg head coach Nate Milne. Milne took over for the late Mike Donnelly, who built the Muhlenberg football program into a Centennial Conference power over the previous 20 years, after Donnelly needed to step down due to leukemia. Muhlenberg has reached even greater heights during Milne's three years as the Mules' head coach, reaching the D3 quarterfinals each year of his tenure (2018, 2019, 2021) and the semifinals in 2019. Milne has been a D3 lifer in his coaching career, but is only about 40 years old and might be a good fit at a small, private school like Lafayette.

[CHIP72]

Interesting little piece of info. Both of Clements coordinators at Kutztown are Lafayette guys. Marcel Quarterman is the OC and Mike St. Germain the DC.

I think the Leopards should look hard at Clements, coach Mac at Shippensburg and of course John Loose. Please stay away from Ivy League guys. I would like to see them bring in. successful D2 coach. These guys know how to coach and run a program with modest budgets.

I wonder if Jim Clements was hired if it would be a package deal and his coordinators would come with him to College Hill.

[caribbeanhen]

Rocco and son sighted near Allentown asking for directions to Lafayette at the local Waffle House

[ngineer]

Rocco and son sighted near Allentown asking for directions to Lafayette at the local Waffle House

That's the most likely place to ask for such directions...xsmiley_wix

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

That's the most likely place to ask for such directions...xsmiley_wix

Are we sure Tiger Woods wasn't involved? Could be part of his "return to tour" plan. His press conference is tomorrow morning....

[Pards Rule]

Rocco and son sighted near Allentown asking for directions to Lafayette at the local Waffle House

Lol which one - there are two I know of in Lehigh Valley: Airport Rd, Allentown and off I -78 and Main Street in Hellertown! It was a blue Chevy Nova vehicle they were in. Over!

[Fordham]

...
3. Fordham: 2021 provided yet another hard lesson to the Rams: there are no-large opportunities in this league, no matter if you play Nebraska or FAU. And at $8 million a year, is Fordham getting its money's worth out of this league?

that's not true at all imo. If we took care of business against Monmouth and Colgate we would have been in. Missing the playoffs had nothing to do with the PL or scheduling 2 FBS schools for us

[Franks Tanks]

Per Football Scoop, Brian Polian is the front runner to land the head job at Lafayette.

He is the former head coach at Nevada and a long time Notre Dame assistant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Polian

[crusader11]

Yeah, don't see that one working out.

Not one stop at an FCS school in his entire coaching career, has never faced recruiting in an environment such as Lafayette / the PL (who's going to brief him on the AI?), and in his one shot as a head coach was under .500 in overall and conference record after four years.

I think there are better options out there, but Lafayette seems to be going after "a name."

[Pards Rule]

Yeah, don't see that one working out.

Not one stop at an FCS school in his entire coaching career, has never faced recruiting in an environment such as Lafayette / the PL (who's going to brief him on the AI?), and in his one shot as a head coach was under .500 in overall and conference record after four years.

I think there are better options out there, but Lafayette seems to be going after "a name."
Agreed, How did Garrett work out?

[crusader11]

I think guys who have spent their entire careers at the FBS level become a bit jaded. They have all the resources handed to them and don't have to get involved in some of the smaller things to make a program "go." I forget what thread this was mentioned in, but I agree with the poster who made the comment of "doing more with less."

When has Polian had a resources issue?

Just think having spent the majority of the last 17 years at Notre Dame and Nevada doesn't translate well to Lafayette College in Easton, PA.

Hiring Polian smells like a "safe" pick to me.

[DFW HOYA]

Yeah, don't see that one working out.

Not one stop at an FCS school in his entire coaching career, has never faced recruiting in an environment such as Lafayette / the PL (who's going to brief him on the AI?), and in his one shot as a head coach was under .500 in overall and conference record after four years.


Eh, he doesn't need the AI. What's the PL going to do about it, anyway? xlolx

[Franks Tanks]

Yeah, don't see that one working out.

Not one stop at an FCS school in his entire coaching career, has never faced recruiting in an environment such as Lafayette / the PL (who's going to brief him on the AI?), and in his one shot as a head coach was under .500 in overall and conference record after four years.

I think there are better options out there, but Lafayette seems to be going after "a name."

He’s been at Notre Dame and Stanford, but overall a coach is a coach and we and any program should hire the best one they can get. Successful Patriot League coaches come from all different backgrounds.

Chesney- All D3 and D2 experience

Biddle- Career FBS assistant. I know he spent time at Colgate prior, but that was well before the PL existed.

Moorhead- FBS assistant

Lehigh- hasn’t hired anyone in 30 years who wasn’t a prior assistant at the program (not typical)

Chechinni is extremely familiar with the PL and goes that’s working?

Polian may not be the guy, but a good indication of significant interest.

[CHIP72]

Per Football Scoop, Brian Polian is the front runner to land the head job at Lafayette.

He is the former head coach at Nevada and a long time Notre Dame assistant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Polian

If Polian is hired, that would be a head scratcher to me. He doesn't have ties to eastern PA/central NJ, has never coached even as an assistant at the DI-AA/FCS level, and was only so-so in his one stint as a head coach. He did play at a D3 school and has spent a lot of time at private schools, albeit ones larger than Lafayette, but Polian would make even less sense than John Garrett did at the time Garrett came to Easton and doesn't fit what Lafayette needs in a head coach IMO.

[CHIP72]

My comments embedded in the quote:


He’s been at Notre Dame and Stanford, but overall a coach is a coach and we and any program should hire the best one they can get. Successful Patriot League coaches come from all different backgrounds.

Chesney- All D3 and D2 experience (was a successful college head coach in New England for 8 years, including 5 years in Worcester)

Biddle- Career FBS assistant. I know he spent time at Colgate prior, but that was well before the PL existed. (was an assistant at Colgate in two different stints before becoming head coach, including one immediately before he was elevated to the top job)

Moorhead- FBS assistant (Fordham alumnus, also was an assistant at Georgetown)

Lehigh- hasn’t hired anyone in 30 years who wasn’t a prior assistant at the program (not typical)

Chechinni is extremely familiar with the PL and goes that’s working?

Polian may not be the guy, but a good indication of significant interest.

Polian isn't like the three successful coaches you identified above. Two of them had ties to the program before they got the head job, and one was well established in the region as a lower level college coach before coming to the Patriot League.

[Franks Tanks]

My comments embedded in the quote


Polian isn't like the three successful coaches you identified above. Two of them had ties to the program before they got the head job, and one was well established in the region as a lower level college coach before coming to the Patriot League.

Lafayette needs a quality head coach period. I don’t care if he played or coached here or not decades ago. I disagree wholeheartedly on D3 guys. Sure it can be done and has worked, but I think that’s a larger roll of the dice.

The coach needs to be a leader, a program builder and a good decision maker. He can always hire assistants with regional or league ties if that’s deemed important. Moreover, I’m not going to argue over a speculative hire at this point!

[CHIP72]

Lafayette needs a quality head coach period. I don’t care if he played or coached here or not decades ago. I disagree wholeheartedly on D3 guys. Sure it can be done and has worked, but I think that’s a larger roll of the dice.

The coach needs to be a leader, a program builder and a good decision maker. He can always hire assistants with regional or league ties if that’s deemed important. Moreover, I’m not going to argue over a speculative hire at this point!

My personal opinion, which isn't all that different than my opinion with the Temple and for that matter Delaware openings (with some tweaks to the parameters based on each school's football program prominence and location), is that Lafayette should try to hire a coach that:

1) Is familiar with eastern Pennsylvania/northern two-thirds of New Jersey (and therefore has at least some awareness of Lafayette and what it is about) in some way, AND

2) Has been a successful head coach or coordinator at the FCS level OR successful head coach at the D2 level OR has experience at the FCS level if he's coming from the FBS level, AND

3) Has experience coaching at relatively small, private schools that are reasonably similar to Lafayette, AND PREFERABLY

4) Is relatively young (though if a good coach over age 50 is available, don't hesitate to hire him if he checks the other boxes)

[ngineer]

that's not true at all imo. If we took care of business against Monmouth and Colgate we would have been in. Missing the playoffs had nothing to do with the PL or scheduling 2 FBS schools for us

Fully agree. The Committee doesn't hold it against a school for 'scheduling up' with an FBS opponent.

[ngineer]

He’s been at Notre Dame and Stanford, but overall a coach is a coach and we and any program should hire the best one they can get. Successful Patriot League coaches come from all different backgrounds.

Chesney- All D3 and D2 experience

Biddle- Career FBS assistant. I know he spent time at Colgate prior, but that was well before the PL existed.

Moorhead- FBS assistant

Lehigh- hasn’t hired anyone in 30 years who wasn’t a prior assistant at the program (not typical)

Chechinni is extremely familiar with the PL and goes that’s working?

Polian may not be the guy, but a good indication of significant interest.

Hank Small was the last Lehigh HC hired, in 1986, without prior assistant position at Lehigh. He came over from Princeton, I think. The other was Dunlap who came to Lehigh in 1966 from Cornell.
I think it significant that whoever the Leopards hire that he come in with eyes open to the culture of the school and the League.

[leopardball2010]

I just posted this on the Lafayette forum, but Polian is the wrong coach.

He is 23-27 as an HC and has never built a program. The bigger issue is that he has jumped around FBS as a position coach for TEs, RBs and LBs but has never coordinated.

He's never built a program. Forget recruiting the Lehigh Valley areas, he's not known as a good recruiter period.

He's a guy with a famous name and family with "Big Time" experience. I think we just fired this guy.

But I do think this shows what kind of interest this opening may be drawing. I just hope they go with some of the other talent.

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[leopardball2010]

Lafayette needs a quality head coach period. I don’t care if he played or coached here or not decades ago. I disagree wholeheartedly on D3 guys. Sure it can be done and has worked, but I think that’s a larger roll of the dice.

The coach needs to be a leader, a program builder and a good decision maker. He can always hire assistants with regional or league ties if that’s deemed important. Moreover, I’m not going to argue over a speculative hire at this point!Quality head coach being the key phrase. I'm not going to get into the debate on what level of coach blah blah. But I will say that knowing enough coaches personally I will adamantly tell you that the level of coach does not signify the quality of coach. In fact, I would argue that FBS has more bad coaches than not because there are more resources to cover up a slacker. Throw another GA at the Special Teams coordinator who can't get his players in the right spots, etc.

Polian is not a recruiter, an xs and os guy, or a motivator. He's not an associate HC who knows the admin side. There is nothing in his career path that leads me to believe he will make a good HC anywhere let alone the PL.

In coaching everyone says it's about who you know. Polian (or at least his dad) knows everyone. Since his FBS GA job and first position coach job I don't think he's progressed.

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[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Per Football Scoop, Brian Polian is the front runner to land the head job at Lafayette.

He is the former head coach at Nevada and a long time Notre Dame assistant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Polian

Based on Lafayette's recent hiring criteria the guy on the left seems like a logical candidate...

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2019/11/01/3eb321c4-c79a-4a89-8260-665bff9d8453/thumbnail/1200x675/4b598005152b1d154aa00ffdc9d1b036/steve-2.jpg

[Franks Tanks]

My comments embedded in the quote:



Polian isn't like the three successful coaches you identified above. Two of them had ties to the program before they got the head job, and one was well established in the region as a lower level college coach before coming to the Patriot League.


Quality head coach being the key phrase. I'm not going to get into the debate on what level of coach blah blah. But I will say that knowing enough coaches personally I will adamantly tell you that the level of coach does not signify the quality of coach. In fact, I would argue that FBS has more bad coaches than not because there are more resources to cover up a slacker. Throw another GA at the Special Teams coordinator who can't get his players in the right spots, etc.

Polian is not a recruiter, an xs and os guy, or a motivator. He's not an associate HC who knows the admin side. There is nothing in his career path that leads me to believe he will make a good HC anywhere let alone the PL.

In coaching everyone says it's about who you know. Polian (or at least his dad) knows everyone. Since his FBS GA job and first position coach job I don't think he's progressed.

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I think we agree more than disagree. No doubt there are plenty of excellent coaches at “lower levels”. My main point was that being familiar with the area or league are not as important as finding the right guy. As long as the coach gets the school/culture they can adapt. Thanks for the insight on Polian, I know little about him.

I do trust Ms. Freeman with this process. She has good judgment and am much more confident she will get this right when compared to Bruce.

[leopardball2010]

I do trust Ms. Freeman with this process. She has good judgment and am much more confident she will get this right when compared to Bruce.

And this is something I can definitely agree with. While I don't like the idea of Polian, he hasn't been hired yet. And based on everything I have seen so far, I trust Freeman to at least vet everyone who is available and choose who she believes will be the best hire.

If Polian is hired I won't like it, but I am willing to give him a shot based on that.

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[Pards Rule]

I have a question about Freeman, LB10. Who is helping her in the vetting? I mean shes an AD not a former HC. How is this handled? I guess the perfect secure job in this world is and will be a college football coaching recruiter.

[leopardball2010]

Well, first I'll say that I don't have any first hand or insider knowledge about Ms. Freeman's process. I haven't been near campus for years and have not had the pleasure of meeting her yet.

But, in general these searches happen two different ways:

1. You hire a search firm, and they do the vetting
2. You use your network to get an idea of a person

Very few ADs we're ever head coaches, but they should generally be good administrators/executives. Just like any good executive, she may not know all the ins and outs of a specific position, but she is looking for culture fits, vision, strategic planning, possible staff makeup, etc. Very few ADs are putting a coach through a whiteboard session to fully understand their philosophy and schemes. But they should be able to review past tenures and see success, growth, etc. Then they do all of their searching, calling former ADs and other coaches. You need to get a feel for the coach as a fit as well as the opinion of that coach in the field.

From some of her previous hires I think I see the stamp of this process. With Bruce we all knew none of this was happening.

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[Lehigh Football Nation]

I am coming up with a target list of a dozen candidates for Lafayette's opening. I have about four (Polian not included, but since he's been high-profile linked to the spot, I'll probably include him). Anything else I should know? Just glancing at this thread it doesn't look like there are too many specific leads.

You can add me to the list of Polian skeptics. Most recently he's been linked to the job at Akron, which makes more sense in every way imaginable (FBS gig, probably full autonomy, also grew up nearby)

[leopardball2010]

IAnything else I should know? Just glancing at this thread it doesn't look like there are too many specific leads.

You can add me to the list of Polian skeptics. Most recently he's been linked to the job at Akron, which makes more sense in every way imaginable (FBS gig, probably full autonomy, also grew up nearby)

Hmmm... There may be someone who knows more than the rest of us, but I've only heard about Loose and Doug being interviewed and a few other Lafayette alumns who have reached out. The whole Polian thing seemed to come out of nowhere to me... Which leads me to believe it might just be an agent fishing for opportunity for their client.

As far as Akron goes, everything I have heard is that it is Morehead. And Morehead would be a much better hire than Polian.

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[IslandPard]

I received a letter to sign in support of John Troxell so he's on the list. I played with John and you won't find a better person. I don't have any insight on why he hasn't progressed up the coaching ranks. I scrolled through the F&M past schedules and there aren't many losing seasons.

[leopardball2010]

I received a letter to sign in support of John Troxell so he's on the list. I played with John and you won't find a better person. I don't have any insight on why he hasn't progressed up the coaching ranks. I scrolled through the F&M past schedules and there aren't many losing seasons.


I received a letter to sign in support of John Troxell so he's on the list.

He was on the list last time too. Great guy for sure, but at this stage if the game I don't think he would be a great fit with scholarships. Just because you got a letter doesn't mean he's actually in the running, more than likely just means that an alumni thinks he should be included.

This whole search has been interesting to me. Very little hard evidence of anyone actually interviewing other than loose and McFadden. Who knows who all the candidates actually are, and who is the frontrunner. All of the Polian stuff rings hollow to me. So who actually knows anything at this point.

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[CHIP72]

He was on the list last time too. Great guy for sure, but at this stage if the game I don't think he would be a great fit with scholarships. Just because you got a letter doesn't mean he's actually in the running, more than likely just means that an alumni thinks he should be included.

This whole search has been interesting to me. Very little hard evidence of anyone actually interviewing other than loose and McFadden. Who knows who all the candidates actually are, and who is the frontrunner. All of the Polian stuff rings hollow to me. So who actually knows anything at this point.

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Lafayette really should be looking hard at Jim Clements (Kutztown head coach) if they aren't already doing so IMO. Obviously a complicating factor right now is Kutztown is still alive in the playoffs.

[Pards Rule]

I received a letter to sign in support of John Troxell so he's on the list. I played with John and you won't find a better person. I don't have any insight on why he hasn't progressed up the coaching ranks. I scrolled through the F&M past schedules and there aren't many losing seasons.
He's had a great run with the Diplomats! I believe another famous Lafayette alum, John Fry (now President of Drexel in Philly) hired him.

[Pards Rule]

He was on the list last time too. Great guy for sure, but at this stage if the game I don't think he would be a great fit with scholarships. Just because you got a letter doesn't mean he's actually in the running, more than likely just means that an alumni thinks he should be included.

This whole search has been interesting to me. Very little hard evidence of anyone actually interviewing other than loose and McFadden. Who knows who all the candidates actually are, and who is the frontrunner. All of the Polian stuff rings hollow to me. So who actually knows anything at this point.



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LB10 - agree on Polian. I think he was such a plant it should be watered!

[CHIP72]

I'm going to throw out one other name - Chris Partridge, co-defensive coordinator at Ole Miss. Partridge is a 41 year old Lafayette alumnus from north Jersey who also was an assistant for the Leopards in 2005. He's spent the last 7 seasons as an assistant coach at P5 schools (five seasons at Michigan, two seasons at Ole Miss) after doing an outstanding job as a high school head coach in five seasons at Paramus Catholic in north Jersey.

It appears Partridge may be a candidate for the head coaching job at Temple, so it is possible he's aiming for an FBS head coaching position. But if Partridge is not hired at Temple or another FBS school, Lafayette may want to consider their former player and assistant coach for the head coaching position, if salary is not an issue (which it might be when hiring a P5 assistant coach at an FCS school like Lafayette).

[leopardball2010]

I'm going to throw out one other name - Chris Partridge, co-defensive coordinator at Ole Miss. Partridge is a 41 year old Lafayette alumnus from north Jersey who also was an assistant for the Leopards in 2005. He's spent the last 7 seasons as an assistant coach at P5 schools (five seasons at Michigan, two seasons at Ole Miss) after doing an outstanding job as a high school head coach in five seasons at Paramus Catholic in north Jersey.

It appears Partridge may be a candidate for the head coaching job at Temple, so it is possible he's aiming for an FBS head coaching position. But if Partridge is not hired at Temple or another FBS school, Lafayette may want to consider their former player and assistant coach for the head coaching position, if salary is not an issue (which it might be when hiring a P5 assistant coach at an FCS school like Lafayette).Yeah... He's a great candidate for any job. Learned a lot at Michigan, can coach a defense well, and is known as a great recruiter. Wether or not he gets the temple job there is a reason he hasn't been brought up before.

His salary at a state school is very public. He is currently making $625,000 a year. At most, Lafayette was paying Garrett between $200 and $300,000 a year. That's just not going to happen.

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[Pard4Life]

Is Polian going to get it? Just googled his name and some Nevada site said “expected to land Lafayette job” quoting “Irish Illustrated” tweeter. Seems like hogwash to me. Hope this is not because our President is from UND?

[CHIP72]

Is Polian going to get it? Just googled his name and some Nevada site said “expected to land Lafayette job” quoting “Irish Illustrated” tweeter. Seems like hogwash to me. Hope this is not because our President is from UND?

Good Lord, I hope not.

[Pards Rule]

Is Polian going to get it? Just googled his name and some Nevada site said “expected to land Lafayette job” quoting “Irish Illustrated” tweeter. Seems like hogwash to me. Hope this is not because our President is from UND?


STOP THE POLIAN TRAIN IMMEDIATELY! All off!!!

[leopardball2010]

Is Polian going to get it? Just googled his name and some Nevada site said “expected to land Lafayette job” quoting “Irish Illustrated” tweeter. Seems like hogwash to me. Hope this is not because our President is from UND?Did she ever work at Notre Dame? I looked at her career and I see that she went there for school, but I don't see her ever employed there. She may know some people there, but it's not like she already has this great relationship with Polian she is bringing him with her.

That's the thing with the whole story with this one. It started on the scoop, there are a couple of tweets, but that's it. There's no connection to the Patriot League, Lafayette, or even FCS for that matter. We haven't heard anything about him interviewing, being on campus, anything like that have we? I just don't think it's real. But then again I don't actually know anything, it's just a gut feeling

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[Pard4Life]

I think of UND alumni of being in a cult with a clandestine network like the CIA. She knows people.

Agree on the sentiment. At times like this, it would be great if we had a beat reporter. Going for a mid major FBS job seems more logical than the rag tag PL with a major salary hit.

[ngineer]

I hope the Leotards go with Polian. He's like a Garrett, people enamored with his name and/or pedigree ("he was at Notre Dame!"). I cannot imagine he would be willing to take such a step that would be viewed as a "step down" to the little Patriot League for a lot less money...assuming he has been offered elsewhere. Some of the other names mentioned in this thread I would consider 'serious' to LC's opponents, i.e. that they would have the extra interest in seeing their school improve as opposed to just wanting a notch on their belt in looking for the next gig 3-5 years down the road; thereby, resulting in a resurgent Lafayette. Will they go for the glitz or go for the substance? Inquiring minds want to know!xeyebrowx

[Pard4Life]

Who knew Lafayette was such a prominent target that it's ripe for fake news coaching rumors? xlolx

[KPSUL]

Does anyone know how much Lafayette was paying Garrett ? While it's usually easy to discover the salary of a state school coach, I know that private schools can be close hold with that information.

[leopardball2010]

Does anyone know how much Lafayette was paying Garrett ? While it's usually easy to discover the salary of a state school coach, I know that private schools can be close hold with that information.I don't have a solid number, but the information I had back when he was hired was more than 200k but less than 300k. Which was at the time quite a bit more than they were paying Frank Tavani, But he been there for a bit, lol

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[KPSUL]

I don't have a solid number, but the information I had back when he was hired was more than 200k but less than 300k. Which was at the time quite a bit more than they were paying Frank Tavani, But he been there for a bit, lol

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Mid 200s should make them competitive. Great school and a nice stadium but I'm wondering how much of a deterrent the PL rules on redshirting and the very limited opportunity to accept transfers would be to hiring the right coach.

[leopardball2010]

Mid 200s should make them competitive. Great school and a nice stadium but I wondering how much of a deterrent the PL rules on redshirting and the very limited opportunity to accept transfers would be to hiring the right coach.Hiring the right coach is the key phrase. The Patriot League isn't looking to go after the top head coach out there, and poach them away. Rocco got paid 500k at Delaware, but he was coming from an established program with a history of success.

The best Patriot League coaches have been either great coaches with a history in the league or with the program who want to come back and have a vested interest in making them great, or young up and coming coaches who are most likely coordinators somewhere to come in and make a splash, and then move up the ladder to FBS quickly.

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[Pard4Life]

Mid 200s should make them competitive. Great school and a nice stadium but I'm wondering how much of a deterrent the PL rules on redshirting and the very limited opportunity to accept transfers would be to hiring the right coach.

I don't know about that... we have had transfers from Notre Dame, Syracuse, Washington State. Redshirting an issue though.

[KPSUL]

I don't know about that... we have had transfers from Notre Dame, Syracuse, Washington State. Redshirting an issue though.
Does Lafayette over graduate programs? UNH has picked up several grad transfers in recent years to include one each from Lafayette and Georgetown. Also having an extensive grad school has allowed us to retain some UNH players who have received their undergrad degree but have one more year of eligibly left.

[Bill]

I believe they do not have grad programs - or at least not an extensive set of them.

[Pards Rule]

I believe they do not have grad programs - or at least not an extensive set of them.

I dont believe any at all

[Pard4Life]

No graduate courses. Only thing that comes close is a 5-year BA/BS dual degree.

[leopardball2010]

No graduate courses. Only thing that comes close is a 5-year BA/BS dual degree.And a few partner programs with other nearby schools

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[Leopard Loyalist]

According to Lafayette's IRS form 990 for 2020, Garrett was not on the list of highest compensated employees. Fran O'Hanlon was #13 with W-2 compensation of $253,413. Last on the list was #18 at $200,306!
Full reports are available here: https://finadmin.lafayette.edu/financial-reports/

[Bill]

According to Lafayette's IRS form 990 for 2020, Garrett was not on the list of highest compensated employees. Fran O'Hanlon was #13 with W-2 compensation of $253,413. Last on the list was #18 at $200,306!
Full reports are available here: https://finadmin.lafayette.edu/financial-reports/
Yikes...were they paying part of his salary through some sort of "maroon club"?

Edit - and just "spit balling" here...maybe he was in good enough financial situation from previous jobs that he chose to have a portion of his income deferred or put in some sort of annuity?

[Pards Rule]

Yikes...were they paying part of his salary through some sort of "maroon club"?

Edit - and just "spit balling" here...maybe he was in good enough financial situation from previous jobs that he chose to have a portion of his income deferred or put in some sort of annuity?
Bill, there is a Fred Kirby '42 endowment that was set up to pay HC and asst coaches for football I know. I presume that is the case as you suggested. Adminstered by family rep, my classmate Jeff Kirby 1984

[leopardball2010]

So no news of possible candidates, interviews, nothing in a while! It's looking like both UNH and Delaware have lost their coach, interviewed, and hired in less time than the Pards.

Are we having trouble finishing a deal with a coach? Are we eating for someone to finish a season somewhere?

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[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Polian rumor was, as most of us thought, complete BS.

https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/1468257798865625088

[CHIP72]

So no news of possible candidates, interviews, nothing in a while! It's looking like both UNH and Delaware have lost their coach, interviewed, and hired in less time than the Pards.

Are we having trouble finishing a deal with a coach? Are we eating for someone to finish a season somewhere?

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Maybe they are meeting with Jim Clements (or members of his staff) this week after Kutztown lost* this past Saturday in the D2 playoffs.

*Lost in stunning fashion on a final play of the game Hail Mary touchdown pass.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think that this long pause is unusual, especially after living through the process when Andy Coen retired and Tom Gilmore was hired (a two month process).

[DFW HOYA]

Re: Brian Polian

https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/1468257798865625088

[CHIP72]

I don't think that this long pause is unusual, especially after living through the process when Andy Coen retired and Tom Gilmore was hired (a two month process).

I disagree in that in Coen’s case, Lehigh knew he was going to step down, so they had more time to make a decision. Even with Coen, I think Lehigh would have benefited from having his replacement in place by mid-December, rather than hiring Tom Gilmore in early January (1/8/19) as they actually did.

Though coach hirings at the FCS level don’t need to happen as quickly as they do at the FBS level because the recruiting competition isn’t as intense, IMO it still is preferable for a school to fill its position within 2-3 weeks so the new coach has plenty of time to establish himself.


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[Go Green]

I don't think that this long pause is unusual, especially after living through the process when Andy Coen retired and Tom Gilmore was hired (a two month process).

At least there's an opening to be filled. Cornell's Dave Archer is still the head coach despite wide speculation on the Ivy Board that he would be let go absent significant improvement in the 2021 season (which did not happen).

I can only assume that Cornell has decided to retain him another year....

[Pards Rule]

At least there's an opening to be filled. Cornell's Dave Archer is still the head coach despite wide speculation on the Ivy Board that he would be let go absent significant improvement in the 2021 season (which did not happen).

I can only assume that Cornell has decided to retain him another year....

Yeah he would have been fricking fired by now

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just released my list. Mostly speculation but based on some knowledge, I forwarded these eleven names who I think are in the mix for the head spot at Lafayette.

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2021/12/eleven-guys-who-might-be-lafayettes.html

[TheValleyRaider]

At least there's an opening to be filled. Cornell's Dave Archer is still the head coach despite wide speculation on the Ivy Board that he would be let go absent significant improvement in the 2021 season (which did not happen).

I can only assume that Cornell has decided to retain him another year....

Big win over Colgate must carry some weight there. Raiders playing the long game...

[IslandPard]

Just released my list. Mostly speculation but based on some knowledge, I forwarded these eleven names who I think are in the mix for the head spot at Lafayette.

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2021/12/eleven-guys-who-might-be-lafayettes.html

Well done LFN! I forgot all about Fein. His offense at LC may have been muffled by the Frankasaurus's "3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust" play calls. And perhaps his Harvard success is due to the athletes they have on the field. Who knows.

I do like the the idea of Willis coming to the hill as well as McFadden getting a shot. A bigger question is will LC look for a combo HC/Coordinator? I think the budget almost makes it a prerequisite. FYI, I don't know what it is but the rumor has always been our assistant coaches are paid peanuts.

[Go Green]

Just released my list. Mostly speculation but based on some knowledge, I forwarded these eleven names who I think are in the mix for the head spot at Lafayette.

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2021/12/eleven-guys-who-might-be-lafayettes.html

Jim Knowles just signed to be DC at Ohio State.

[leopardball2010]

Jim Knowles just signed to be DC at Ohio State.Yeah, Fun list @lfn and I think I like most of the names. But the Knowles thing was as bad as Polian lol. He was making $800k this year...

I would say that probably 80% chance the actual head coach comes from this list. The ivy guys are ok. Would be decent coaches, but they don't excite me. Mickey is a good guy, it's been a long time on the hill, but I don't know if I would want to see him as the head coach.

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[ngineer]

Just released my list. Mostly speculation but based on some knowledge, I forwarded these eleven names who I think are in the mix for the head spot at Lafayette.

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2021/12/eleven-guys-who-might-be-lafayettes.html

Excellent overview. The only one on there that I think is more than a reach is Knowles. Can't see him taking such a cut in salary and prestige, especially after the huge season the Cowboys have had. I could definitely see Troxell 'coming home' or Fein coming back, assuming he doesn't rather see himself rising to another level. All of the list is much more plausible than Polian.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Me: Releases list with Knowles as a "possible target" for Lafayette
Two hours later: Knowles is signed by Ohio State as their new defensive coordinator for more $$$$$
Based on this series of events, I can only come to the conclusion that Ohio State is very aware of Lafayette's head coaching search

PS. Used "strikethrough" on Knowles and added a new name to the list insteat

[Bill]

Me: Releases list with Knowles as a "possible target" for Lafayette
Two hours later: Knowles is signed by Ohio State as their new defensive coordinator for more $$$$$
Based on this series of events, I can only come to the conclusion that Ohio State is very aware of Lafayette's head coaching search

PS. Used "strikethrough" on Knowles and added a new name to the list insteat

It's clear that the deductive reasoning skills instilled in you (us) at Lehigh are still being utilized in our lifelong learning process.xlolx

[Pard4Life]

We need Ivytalk's or other Harvard opinions on Mickey Fein... I am not a fan... too many bad memories. But head coach is a different skill set.

[leopardball2010]

We need Ivytalk's or other Harvard opinions on Mickey Fein... I am not a fan... too many bad memories. But head coach is a different skill set.I generally got along with Mickey. And I know his daughter is (or at least was, not sure if she graduated) a lacrosse player at Lafayette.

When he was the OC he had a lot of good ideas offensively that he could never put into effect. But I never liked the fact that there was an obvious rift between the offense and the defense. There was a bit of a power struggle between Mickey and Loose. At the end Frank didn't manage much, so the two of them fought over the rest of it. Both of them are strong administratively and have strong ideas on how to run a program, and they are very different so they would butt heads on that quite a bit.

For my money I am a Loose guy, But I would be interested to hear what anyone at Harvard would say about him now.

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[Pards Rule]

I generally got along with Mickey. And I know his daughter is (or at least was, not sure if she graduated) a lacrosse player at Lafayette.

When he was the OC he had a lot of good ideas offensively that he could never put into effect. But I never liked the fact that there was an obvious rift between the offense and the defense. There was a bit of a power struggle between Mickey and Loose. At the end Frank didn't manage much, so the two of them fought over the rest of it. Both of them are strong administratively and have strong ideas on how to run a program, and they are very different so they would butt heads on that quite a bit.

For my money I am a Loose guy, But I would be interested to hear what anyone at Harvard would say about him now.

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I agree LB10 with you and P4L about the bad memories. Has Fein's success up in Cambridge MA been his doing or is he really benefitting from the caliber of recruits to this top Ivy or a combo of both? I dont know enough detail to comment. Wish our Harvard friends would weigh in here. Loose will be relatively free after todays Army-Navy, discounting the uninteresting Armed Services Bowl, Army vs Missouri on Dec, 22nd. Anyways, it looks like a near Xmas announcement then. But get it right, not necessarily early!!!

[leopardball2010]

Anyways, it looks like a near Xmas announcement then. But get it right, not necessarily early!!!

Someone on the Lafayette board said they expect a decision on Sunday with an announcement from the college on Monday.

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[Pards Rule]

Someone on the Lafayette board said they expect a decision on Sunday with an announcement from the college on Monday.

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Decided? Who do you think LB??? Hmmmm, Loose basically can accept after 6PM today. Former Lafayette OLC and Asst HC Bob Heffner just announced retirement from Pat Fitzgerlad's staff at Northwestern. Loved Heff!

[leopardball2010]

Decided? Who do you think LB??? Hmmmm, Loose basically can accept after 6PM today. Former Lafayette OLC and Asst HC Bob Heffner just announced retirement from Pat Fitzgerlad's staff at Northwestern. Loved Heff!I don't think anyone really knows. I have the list I think is most probable, But outside of loose and McFadden we don't even know who was actually being interviewed.

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[Pards Rule]

I don't think anyone really knows. I have the list I think is most probable, But outside of loose and McFadden we don't even know who was actually being interviewed.

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The LFN list or the LB10 list? Never seen a LB10 list!

[DFW HOYA]

Someone on the Lafayette board said they expect a decision on Sunday with an announcement from the college on Monday.


Link?

[leopardball2010]

The LFN list or the LB10 list? Never seen a LB10 list!Well I never really shared mine because I don't have any hard sources. If I had to guess at the list of candidates who interviewed I would put it at 6 total in no real order:
1. John Loose
2. Mickey Fein
3. Interim Doug McFadden
4. Dartmouth OC
5. Clements from Kutztown
6. Probably either another Ivy Coordinator or Trox

The LFN list is good, and I would love to see a few of those candidates get real looks, but not sure how realistic some of those "outsider" candidates are.

I also know a few other alumni were trying to get a shot, but not sure they would let one or two of them interview with some lesser experience. Even though I think the best candidate may be in this group.

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[DFW HOYA]

Well I never really shared mine because I don't have any hard sources. If I had to guess at the list of candidates who interviewed I would put it at 6 total in no real order:
1. John Loose
2. Mickey Fein
3. Interim Doug McFadden
4. Dartmouth OC
5. Clements from Kutztown
6. Probably either another Ivy Coordinator or Trox


None of those names changes the story at Lafayette right now as just another 3-8 PL team without upward trajectory.

[Pards Rule]

Link?

New board: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/pardsville/

[leopardball2010]

None of those names changes the story at Lafayette right now as just another 3-8 PL team without upward trajectory.First let me clarify, this is not who I want, but who I think they will end up interviewing. And I don't disagree with you for most of this list. I am a Loose guy and I think he can turn a program around and build something real. The other guys on that list I'm very meh about.

We have had absolutely zero actual reporting about any outsider candidates. Who knows what up and coming coordinators may have thrown their hat in the ring, and with our historically mediocre budget, that we could actually afford.

In my opinion, I actually think Marvin Clecidor would be one of the best hires outside Loose. But not sure he'll get a shot because he doesn't have HC experience and was only a coordinator at Princeton for a short time.

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[Lehigh73]

https://www.simplyhired.com/job/ZvZLvEpesNKkBw5hme0OS-yTWjK0tja0Xi__4-QeQ9GpJ6Z1vNNDOw
Speaking of mediocre budget, check the salary range for the coaching position in this job posting.

[Franks Tanks]

https://www.simplyhired.com/job/ZvZLvEpesNKkBw5hme0OS-yTWjK0tja0Xi__4-QeQ9GpJ6Z1vNNDOw
Speaking of mediocre budget, check the salary range for the coaching position in this job posting.

This is one of those aggregator sites that skims posting from the web. That is an estimate from an algorithm some dude in India wrote. Pay for the head coach position at Lafayette is solid. Assistants , perhaps not so much.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

None of those names changes the story at Lafayette right now as just another 3-8 PL team without upward trajectory.

Jim Clements is a proven winner. I'm hoping Lehigh hires him after the Gilmore Era runs its course next year...

[Pards Rule]

This is one of those aggregator sites that skims posting from the web. That is an estimate from an algorithm some dude in India wrote. Pay for the head coach position at Lafayette is solid. Assistants , perhaps not so much.


haha even a receptionist at Bourger makes that

[CHIP72]

Jim Clements is a proven winner. I'm hoping Lehigh hires him after the Gilmore Era runs its course next year...

What you're really hoping for GLTUOwl is for Lafayette to NOT hire Clements and then for Lehigh to hire him after next season. ;)

[ngineer]

I generally got along with Mickey. And I know his daughter is (or at least was, not sure if she graduated) a lacrosse player at Lafayette.

When he was the OC he had a lot of good ideas offensively that he could never put into effect. But I never liked the fact that there was an obvious rift between the offense and the defense. There was a bit of a power struggle between Mickey and Loose. At the end Frank didn't manage much, so the two of them fought over the rest of it. Both of them are strong administratively and have strong ideas on how to run a program, and they are very different so they would butt heads on that quite a bit.

For my money I am a Loose guy, But I would be interested to hear what anyone at Harvard would say about him now.

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Harvard thinks he's Fein.

[Pard4Life]

Harvard thinks he's Fein.

Please see yourself out xdrunkyx

[ngineer]

Please see yourself out xdrunkyx

xdrunkyx

[Pards Rule]

Nothing today it seems...awaiting

[ngineer]

This thread is OVAH!