Mich. loss not stunner to all

[ButlerGSU]

"That's the first time a ranked [Division I-A or Football Bowl Subdivision] lost so it gets everybody's attention," Navy coach Paul Johnson said, "But every year, somebody [in I-A] loses [to a team in I-AA]."

Johnson has worked both sidelines of the great divide. He won two national I-AA championships at Georgia Southern, where he nearly knocked off host Oregon State in 1999. He has spent the past five-plus years at top-division Navy, where he was upset by I-AA Delaware in 2003 when the Blue Hens won a national title.

The gap between the two divisions isn't as big as some believe, Johnson said.

"I think at the very top of the elite I-A schools, there's a pretty good gap," he said. "I think maybe the top 10, 15 I-AA schools would probably be comparable to the midlevel I-A schools. That's playing once - not if they had to play every week because depth would come into play with the scholarship limit."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.diviaa05sep05,0,29889.story

[AZGrizFan]

"That's the first time a ranked [Division I-A or Football Bowl Subdivision] lost so it gets everybody's attention," Navy coach Paul Johnson said, "But every year, somebody [in I-A] loses [to a team in I-AA]."

Johnson has worked both sidelines of the great divide. He won two national I-AA championships at Georgia Southern, where he nearly knocked off host Oregon State in 1999. He has spent the past five-plus years at top-division Navy, where he was upset by I-AA Delaware in 2003 when the Blue Hens won a national title.

The gap between the two divisions isn't as big as some believe, Johnson said.

"I think at the very top of the elite I-A schools, there's a pretty good gap," he said. "I think maybe the top 10, 15 I-AA schools would probably be comparable to the midlevel I-A schools. That's playing once - not if they had to play every week because depth would come into play with the scholarship limit."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.diviaa05sep05,0,29889.story

My hero. xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

[citdog]

there was the 'Dogs beating the 'Hogs again!xthumbsupx

[Cap'n Cat]

This is what I meant about having an advocate working in the big boys' arena. Kudos, Paul!

xnodx

[BlueHen86]

Johnson ought to know. Not only has he coached at both levels, Navy plays the gamut every year; FBS ranked teams to FCS schools.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

My hero. xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

How could he be your hero when he didn't correctly identify FCS from FBS? xconfusedx

[AZGrizFan]

How could he be your hero when he didn't correctly identify FCS from FBS? xconfusedx

He's my hero because he brought my second favorite team, Navy, back to prominence. And because he left GSU to give the rest of FCS a fightin' chance at the title every year.... :D

[DaveK]

"That's the first time a ranked [Division I-A or Football Bowl Subdivision] lost so it gets everybody's attention," Navy coach Paul Johnson said, "But every year, somebody [in I-A] loses [to a team in I-AA]."

Johnson has worked both sidelines of the great divide. He won two national I-AA championships at Georgia Southern, where he nearly knocked off host Oregon State in 1999. He has spent the past five-plus years at top-division Navy, where he was upset by I-AA Delaware in 2003 when the Blue Hens won a national title.

The gap between the two divisions isn't as big as some believe, Johnson said.

"I think at the very top of the elite I-A schools, there's a pretty good gap," he said. "I think maybe the top 10, 15 I-AA schools would probably be comparable to the midlevel I-A schools. That's playing once - not if they had to play every week because depth would come into play with the scholarship limit."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.diviaa05sep05,0,29889.story

Because of the fact that Michigan was thought of as being among the very top of the elite, the game is considered the greatest college football upset of all-time. I don't disagree that the top 10-15 I-AA's can compete with the midlevel D1's, but I don't know of many people who thought Michigan was going to be a midlevel team this year.

[JohnStOnge]

Because of the fact that Michigan was thought of as being among the very top of the elite, the game is considered the greatest college football upset of all-time. I don't disagree that the top 10-15 I-AA's can compete with the midlevel D1's, but I don't know of many people who thought Michigan was going to be a midlevel team this year.

Assuming Michigan turns out to be a top level FBS team, mid level I-A/FBS teams have upset top level I-A/FBS teams in the past. So the thing about top I-AA/FCS teams being equivalent to mid level I-A/FCS teams is not inconsistent with App beating Michigan...even if Michigan turns out to be a top FBS squad.

Just to give an example I remember, in 1989 a 5-6 Southern Miss team beat Florida State. The Seminoles went on to finish 10 - 2 and ranked 3rd in the AP poll as well as 2nd in the Coaches' poll.

That same year, Southern Miss actually lost to the University of Southwestern Louisiana, now known as Louisiana Lafayette.

College football is a weird game. What happened this past weekend does not necessarily mean that Michigan isn't going to end up near the top and it also doesn't neccessarily mean there's no hope of any FCS beating App State.

Except for the fact that FBS pollsters will penalize Michigan more for losing to a FCS than they would for losing to a FBS of comparable caliber.

[JohnStOnge]

Only thing I'd disagree with is that I think the biggest "upset" by a I-AA/FCS team prior to this past Saturday was Arkansas State's 10-10 tie with Ole Miss in 1986 rather than The Citadel's win over Arkansas.

That 1986 Ole Miss team finished 8-3-1 and 4-2 in the SEC. The Arkansas team The Citadel beat in 1992 finished 3-7-1.

In fact, we'll have to wait and see what Michigan does before we declare what App State did the most impressive performance ever by a I-AA/FCS team against an FBS team. All depends on how Michigan looks during the rest of the season.

If Michigan ends up with a losing season...instances in which playoff-caliber I-AAs have beaten major conference teams with winning records are not uncommon.

[ncman071]

Only thing I'd disagree with is that I think the biggest "upset" by a I-AA/FCS team prior to this past Saturday was Arkansas State's 10-10 tie with Ole Miss in 1986 rather than The Citadel's win over Arkansas.

That 1986 Ole Miss team finished 8-3-1 and 4-2 in the SEC. The Arkansas team The Citadel beat in 1992 finished 3-7-1.

In fact, we'll have to wait and see what Michigan does before we declare what App State did the most impressive performance ever by a I-AA/FCS team against an FBS team. All depends on how Michigan looks during the rest of the season.

If Michigan ends up with a losing season...instances in which playoff-caliber I-AAs have beaten major conference teams with winning records are not uncommon.

I have to disagree. First of all, i can't see Michigan winning less than 8 games. In fact I'm predicting a 9-3 season for UM. ASU has hands down been apart of THE biggest upset in college football history. Michigan could go 0-12 but the fact is ASU won at Michigan in the big house.

[high priest]

I remember, in 1989 a 5-6 Southern Miss team beat Florida State. The Seminoles went on to finish 10 - 2 and ranked 3rd in the AP poll as well as 2nd in the Coaches' poll.

The next week, FSU trailed Georgia Southern 10-7 going into the fourth quarter. Had that result held, App State's win this week would have caused ESPN to replay that footage about 27,893 times. And I'm not just trying to toot Georgia Southern's horn, either: App's win was unprecedented because it was... well... unprecedented. Sure, there have been some close calls and some good FCS/I-AA wins over middling and even decent FBS/I-A teams, but since 1978, no one has really pulled off the shocker that the Mountaineers did.

[HaveFunKc]

xlolx
I have to disagree. First of all, i can't see Michigan winning less than 8 games. In fact I'm predicting a 9-3 season for UM. ASU has hands down been apart of THE biggest upset in college football history. Michigan could go 0-12 but the fact is ASU won at Michigan in the big house.

I think that if the Wolverines go 0-12 it would actually give many in the BCS/I-A world reason to tout that App should have won (i.e. "See Michigan really did suck this year and everyone beat them this year").
I agree Michigan will win some games (I think at least 8) and every game they win just adds more credence to App (and FCS) for their win at the Big House... xthumbsupx

Daydreaming here... Wouldn't it be awesome if Michgian won out for the season?!!! xsmiley_wix

[Old Cat Fan]

Here is a article I was just reading where the author goes on to say that he is familiar with the App State program and they are no pushovers. Giving App State the respect they deserve xthumbsupx Here is the quote and the link to the article...

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=710026

Michigan received 39 points from the media voters in the Top 25, including a 16th place vote by Wayne Phillips from The Greenville (Tenn.) Sun.

"I still think Michigan has a good football team," he said. "I think they're worthy of being ranked. They may prove me wrong."

Phillips said he gave Michigan some leeway because he's very familiar with Appalachian State, the two-time defending I-AA champions.

"They're a pretty darn good football team," he said. "If Michigan had lost to some of the other patsies some of the big teams played I could see dropping them out."

Appalachian State is not eligible for the AP Top 25, which only ranks Bowl Subdivision teams. The Wolverines host Oregon on Saturday.

[Appdad]

The next week, FSU trailed Georgia Southern 10-7 going into the fourth quarter. Had that result held, App State's win this week would have caused ESPN to replay that footage about 27,893 times. And I'm not just trying to toot Georgia Southern's horn, either: App's win was unprecedented because it was... well... unprecedented. Sure, there have been some close calls and some good FCS/I-AA wins over middling and even decent FBS/I-A teams, but since 1978, no one has really pulled off the shocker that the Mountaineers did.


I remember GSU giving UGA all it could handle 4 years ago!

[CID1990]

Only thing I'd disagree with is that I think the biggest "upset" by a I-AA/FCS team prior to this past Saturday was Arkansas State's 10-10 tie with Ole Miss in 1986 rather than The Citadel's win over Arkansas.

That 1986 Ole Miss team finished 8-3-1 and 4-2 in the SEC. The Arkansas team The Citadel beat in 1992 finished 3-7-1.

In fact, we'll have to wait and see what Michigan does before we declare what App State did the most impressive performance ever by a I-AA/FCS team against an FBS team. All depends on how Michigan looks during the rest of the season.

If Michigan ends up with a losing season...instances in which playoff-caliber I-AAs have beaten major conference teams with winning records are not uncommon.

1. A tie is a moral victory, but it isn't a win and therefore not an upset. It was certainly huge for Ark. St, but in the end, Ole Miss avoided the loss. They may not have won, but Ole Miss did not suffer the fallout from a loss to a I-AA team the way Arkansas and Michigan did.

2. Arkansas played us on a Saturday, and then they fired their coach on Sunday. The loss to us put them into such disarray that at least two of their losses could be attributed to the change of staff. It should be noted, however, that the week after we beat them, Arkansas trounced South Carolina. Arkansas, while not ranked in the AP poll, WAS ranked in some polls, including SI's preseason poll that had them at 24th.

3. I think that we will see Michigan lose some games this season that they would not have lost had they beaten App State. A loss like this for an FBS team places that team into total disarray in terms of unity and morale. Mark my words, this game will not be the only upset for Michigan this season, whereas if they had beaten App State, they very well could have contended for a NC. Right now, there is a lot of grumbling in the locker room. Even Lou Holtz said it on his show.... the second stringers are going to start agitating to play, there will be finger pointing, etc. This is precisely what happened to Arkansas. They lost to The Citadel, and in their minds, their season was over. They were missing that extra little "oomph" for the rest of the season.

[Mr. C]

Johnson ought to know. Not only has he coached at both levels, Navy plays the gamut every year; FBS ranked teams to FCS schools.

A couple of other things to remember about Paul Johnson. Johnson has a deep respect for Jerry Moore and the Appalachian State program, having competed against the Mountaineers when he was at Georgia Southern. And Johnson grew up about 30 minutes from the ASU campus in Newland, N.C. He grew up following Mountaineer football (which ran an option offense that is similar to his own - Jim Brakefield's wishbone). He is probably as proud of ASU's accomplishment as anyone from that region would be.